Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Alyssa Milano Called for "Sex Strike" to Protest Abortion Laws; Hollywood Legend Doris Day Dead at 97; Brooke Explores What's Changed with Killer Mike Since Ferguson. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 13, 2019 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That we're in the predicament. Where we have Robert Mueller. We have the President obviously trying to obstruct justice in the minds of some experts. And it was Rob Rosenstein who wrote that pretext memo firing the former FBI director over the Hillary Clinton case. And then we soon learned the President was actually -- it was Russia that was on his mind while this was happening. Rosenstein was complicit in that.

So we talked to people inside DOJ who think that's unforgivable. That said, he has also been the person who essentially tried to stand as a shield protecting Robert Mueller after he was appointed. So very complicated figure, and I think that history will judge him in one of those two ways. I think it's too soon to determine how he goes down in history books.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Not standing. Still thrown under the bus. Josh Campbell, thank you very much.

CAMPBELL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We continue on. If you do not like the latest wave of strict abortion laws being passed, stop having sex. You heard me right. That is the idea coming from woman, actress and activist Alyssa Milano. But my next guest calls it misguided and has her own ideas about better ways to protest.

[15:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Alyssa Milano is calling for women to go on a sex strike. Yes, just days after Georgia's governor signed the controversial heartbeat abortion law. The actress tweeted this. Quote, our reproductive rights are being erased. Until women have legal control over our own bodies, we just cannot risk pregnancy. Join me by not having sex until we get bodily autonomy back. I'm calling for a sex strike. Pass it on.

The state of Georgia just banned abortions after about six weeks when a fetal heartbeat can be detected. The law is set to going to affect January 1. And critics argue that this law and several others like it are designed to trigger a legal battle that will end up in the Supreme Court in an attempt to overturn Roe V Wade.

Peggy Drexler is a research psychologist and an author. And she just penned this piece for CNN.com and it's called "Alyssa Milano sex strike is misguided. Here's what actually might work."

So Peggy Drexler, a pleasure. Let's go into -- first of all, you do say you're glad she spoke up.

PEGGY DREXLER, CNN RESEARCH PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: But not having sex is not the solution.

DREXLER: No.

BALDWIN: Why do you think that?

DREXLER: Well first of all, it creates contention between the sexes, and she overlooks the fact that women have been very supportive of this bill as well. This is not just men. Many women feel very strongly this is the right thing to do. So to say that it's men is really shortsighted in my estimation. And not very effective.

BALDWIN: And you also made this point. Alluding to -- you said a way to regain bodily autonomy, as she put it. Milano was implying that women pretty much only have sex to please men or to have babies.

DREXLER: Which overlooks the fact that women enjoy sex.

BALDWIN: We do. Is that OK?

DREXLER: And so that there are other reasons women do have sex, and she eliminated a whole portion of the population, and that is lesbians.

BALDWIN: Now -- Right.

DREXLER: Yes.

BALDWIN: But some of her supporters say an antiquated law deserves an antiquated response. To that you say.

DREXLER: To that I think antiquated responses don't work. And this is a different world. And why bring up old responses to new problems? I mean, we are faced with something very, very serious. And something has to be done. And I wish she had more backing. I mean, that I respect her for. You didn't hear anybody else which was very surprising to me. But my feeling is that there are things we can do.

BALDWIN: For people who want to protest, you have laws

DREXLER: For people who want to protest.

BALDWIN: Like what?

DREXLER: First of all we can talk to the men in our lives and figure out who are the men that are not supporting this. Who don't -- and there's plenty of them. Second of all, we can contribute to Planned Parenthood. They have a huge political arm, and they have been very, very successful in the past. And third of all, we can vote. We can go and say this isn't what we want. This really, really -- it is the most restrictive law yet for abortion. And women -- many, many women don't want that. So rather than do something that will hurt women for the reasons that we said, why not do something on a larger scale?

BALDWIN: Dr. Peggy Drexler, a pleasure.

DREXLER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you very much.

As tensions escalate with Iran, the President uses one of his favorite catch phrases to answer whether war is on the horizon.

Plus remembering the life of Hollywood legend, Doris Day.

[15:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in, the coast guard officer accused of making terror threats against media figures and politicians will remain in detention until his trial. A judge vacating another judge's order that Christopher Hasson should be freed until the trial started since the charges were only for weapons and drugs. No trial date has been set.

Doris Day, the box office queen with the golden voice who sang her way to stardom in "Calamity Jane" has died at the age of 97.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORIS DAY, SINGER, ACTRESS (singing): 23 miles we've covered today

[15:45:00] I'm in love. I'm no love. I'm in love. I'm no love. I'm no love. I'm in love with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Day's wholesome all-American image landed her roles opposite some of Hollywood's most iconic leading men, including Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, and James Cagney. Michael Musto, a columnist with NewNowNext.com is with me. And I want to read something. This jumped out at me from "USA Today" about her not being the typical blonde bomb shell and how she was relatable to the masses.

Whether God given or Clairol tinted, all Hollywood blonds are not created equal. Take the bombshell blitz of the 50s and 60s. Marilyn Monroe was the alpha goddess, while Grace Kelly was the class act. Bringing up the shapely rear were vampy Kim Novak and campy Jane Mansfield. But existing on a more approachable perch was Doris Day. Her brand of beauty came sprinkled with freckles. She was one of us and we loved her for it.

MICHAEL MUSTO, COLUMNIST, NEWNOWNEXT.COM: That's so true. Doris Day was the anti-Marilyn Monroe. She wasn't selling sex appeal though she had it. But she was selling kind of accessibility and decency. She was America's sweetheart. She grew up not even knowing that she could sing. Once she discovered that, she ended up being a big band singer and then Hollywood discovered her. And she made some great movies like "Love Me or Leave Me" that's her best film. She should've been Oscar-nominated for that. She was nominated later on for "Pillow Talk". Which was a sort of beautiful, lush, romantic comedy. She made you believe Rock Hudson was straight.

BALDWIN: Nice, Michael. Nice.

MUSTO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: What I -- in reading about her offscreen life, pretty rocky. Married four times, a victim of domestic violence, a mom at 19, she went into debt after her husband manager mismanaged her fortune.

MUSTO: A rough, rough life, for husbands. She was not America's sweetheart in real life. She was a real person. Was kind of messed over by some men like Marty Melcher, her third husband. And just always stood up again and stood up with dignity and class. I think the big mistake in her career was in 1967 she was asked to star in "The Graduate" the movie that changed everything. She was going to play Mrs. Robinson the mother of Dustin Hoffman's girlfriend who sleeps with Dustin Hoffman. Doris thought it was too vulgar. Obviously, wanted to preserve her sweetheart image.

BALDWIN: She said no.

MUSTO: She said no. I think she would have been working until the day she died, just like Ann Bancroft who got the part -- did actually. But I can understand that Doris had a brand, and she wanted to keep that brand. That was the eternal virgin.

BALDWIN: You mentioned she should have been -- she never won an Oscar. She got the Medal of Freedom from President George W. Bush in 2004 and lifetime achievement Grammy in 2008. So she was recognized. She was almost like one of the original triple threats.

And there was a big campaign to get her a special Oscar. And towards the end I don't think she wanted to show up in person and receive it. And that may have been a problem. But I think the academy has to honor her in a big way next year. She was a huge star and beloved figure.

BALDWIN: Hopefully they will. Michael, thank you. Good to see you on Doris Day.

We are minutes from the closing bell. The Dow is down more than 600 points after China has retaliated with the new tariffs on U.S. products. We have details on how the trade war will impact your budget.

Plus, actress Felicity Huffman pleading guilty in that college admissions scandal. Hear about the moment she broke down in court.

[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: His last words were "I can't breathe." Eric Garner said that 11 times. It has been nearly five years since Eric Garner died after a police officer placed him -- his arm around Garner's neck while other officers handcuffed him. And what happened to him ignited protest against police brutality all across the country. And in New York today, a disciplinary hearing began to see if that police officer, Daniel Pantaleo, can keep his job. His lawyer insists he never choked Garner and acted in accordance with his training.

This week -- this is so exciting -- we're bringing you all these stories of remarkable people that are making lasting impacts all around the world. We're calling this series "CHAMPIONS FOR CHANGE." It's our chance to revisit amazing changemakers we've covered in the past and just couldn't forget. Their passions endure and so do the differences they continue to make.

So I first met Killer Mike, otherwise known as Michael Render in 2014, after the riots in Ferguson, Missouri. And I had been a fan of his music and I knew we were both from Atlanta. But the first time I interviewed him on CNN, I was really moved by his thoughts on race and on community. And Mike was challenging all of us to really change our own perspectives. And so, flash forward five years later, Mike and his wife have become dear friends of mine.

And in talking to him and in watching him, I have seen that he has not let up when it comes to spreading his message. He is forcing people who are different to have conversations, even if it's kind of uncomfortable. He's an activist in Atlanta but is taking his message all across the country.

And I recently went back to Atlanta to talk to Mike at one of his swag shops, one of the three barbershops he owns around town. And what I wanted to know most from him, really was, is our society in a better place since we first interviewed in 2014?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL RENDER, "KILLER MIKE" RAPPER: There's this thing race I wanted to talk to you about. You know what I mean?

BALDWIN: You don't meet many killer Mikes.

RENDER: All of these men are outstanding men in my community and they come here to talk all the BS they want.

[15:55:00] BALDWIN: He's got this wonderful rap career. He's this larger than life guy. He fills a room just with how he speaks.

RENDER: We are so similar that we keep letting these 5 percent differences separate us.

BALDWIN: When you and I chatted in 2014 and one of my questions to you, it was talking about Michael Brown and that officer. So I said to you, if officer Wilson was here, what would you say to him? And in 2014 you said --

RENDER: In less-polite terms, I'd tell him, I think you're a liar.

BALDWIN: How can we make this better?

RENDER: You engage in a different social climate than you're accustomed to. You can make a friend that doesn't look like you. And you can find someone who's not like you to converse with and be open and honest with.

BALDWIN: Are things better now in this country?

RENDER: No.

No.

BALDWIN: No Tell me why.

RENDER: Because we keep handling things like a dysfunctional family. Emergencies flare up, we yell and scream at each other', and then go back to our perspective rooms, and are consoled by people who may agree with us but may not see the whole perspective.

BALDWIN: What do you think about police use of force in 2019 and how has that changed really after you and I spoke after Ferguson?

RENDER: I'm still not satisfied with the perception of police in our communities. And that's not on the community to fix.

BALDWIN: Who's it on?

RENDER: It's on the people the community pays. Police are going to have to start to learn and interact with the community different than we expected to.

BALDWIN: The SWAG Shop. What's the message you're trying to send?

RENDER: The barbershop and the black barbershop in particular has always been a social center and country club, of sorts. So this is an hour a week that the average guy can come and just be spoiled. You can have intellectual dialogue with people you agree and disagree with. And you can do it in a safe place.

STEVE WEST, PATRON, THE SWAG SHOP: The barbershop is so welcoming. It's a comfortable place to explore things that I don't understand and I want to know.

BALDWIN: Like what?

WEST: Just how race relations work. Because people are --

BALDWIN: Let's go there.

RENDER: He calls me at 2:00 in the afternoon with, Mike, I've got a question.

WEST: I honestly want to know. I grew up in backwoods North Carolina and wasn't exposed to the community and now I'm welcome member at barbershop member, just a welcome -- another welcome person here. But it's, you know, this is a lot of things I don't understand with how racism works.

RENDER: You are a member of the community. BALDWIN: Have cops been in here?

RENDER: Yes, absolutely.

COURTNEY SILLS, PATRON, THE SWAG SHOP: A lot of times, cops are in the barbershop and you don't know they're cops.

BALDWIN: Really?

SILLS: So they -- I think they get a peek into the community as well. And it's easier for them if they're not in uniform, because it changes -- the uniform changes everybody. Everybody is thinking about, what did I do?

BALDWIN: What do you think police officers learned from other folks in the barbershop?

SILLS: That people -- not everybody hates them.

RENDER: Where did we lose the romanticism of police in our community that firemen don't seem to have lost?

You know, you still take your child to a fire station to take pictures with the fire trucks. You still do that. Like my grandma had a picture of me sitting on my dad's desk, sitting with cops around. And my father happened to had been one, and I can remember when officer friendly was a force in the schools, because you needed to know that these people were here.

BALDWIN: He's someone who certainly doesn't look like me and we grew up in different parts of Atlanta.

RENDER: This is the exact house I grew up in.

BALDWIN: You're a civic leader. You're an activist. You're a rapper.

RENDER: You didn't read my twitter box.

BALDWIN: Which comes first in the order of priorities for Killer Mike?

RENDER: What I am first is a product of an upstanding African American community that's contributed rightly to this city.

BALDWIN: I have such respect and admiration for him. He's a leader in the black community, really the community at large. I don't know how the man finds time. I hope to be friends with him for a long time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Love you, Mike. Thank you for that. We'll keep sharing these inspiring stories all week. And tune in this Saturday 8:00 p.m. Eastern for an hour-long "CHAMPIONS FOR CHANGE" special.

That is it for me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: He's building a wall of tariffs. And you're the one paying for it. "THE LEAD" starts right now.

The Dow on a nosedive after China strikes back, defying President Trump's warning in a battle with Beijing that's already starting to sting.

Chasing Joe Biden. The Democratic front-runner makes his first trip to a crucial state while playing it safe and avoiding big interviews, as those behind him in the polls plan media blitzes to try to breakthrough. Plus, breaking news right now. The fight over Donald Trump Jr.'s testimony on Capitol Hill. CNN now learning what's leading to this clash that is tearing Republicans apart.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We'll start with breaking news in the money lead. President Trump's trade war with China having a chilling effect on Wall Street. The Dow plunging just under 600 points on the news that Beijing will retaliate.

[16:00:00]