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Graham Advises to Ignore Subpoenas; Biden Not Consensus Pick for Obama Staffers; Buttigieg Calls out Dems; Flooding after Heavy Rain; NBA Playoffs Drama. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 13, 2019 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "POLITICO": With now the line of inquiry the Senate Intel has. You know, what makes this one unique is that it was started by Chairman Burr, who is a Republican. He decided to sign off on this subpoena. He didn't have to, but he did. And that's the way they were able to do it.

But, again, by not cooperating, in Senate, we haven't heard any whispers of, oh, they would then hold Don Junior in contempt. It's not the same as what's going on in the House. And so they would be able to prolong this and prolong this. And we expect a lot of these inquiries to end up in court

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a heck of a thing, John Avlon, when a Republican senator from South Carolina says ignore the subpoena from the Republican senator from North Carolina. I mean Lindsey Graham was a lawyer and just saying, ignore it.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: Just ignore it

AVLON: Yes. And this is -- that's the headline here. And that's why there's the danger of normalization in this particular moment we're in. We're so inundated by blizzard of lies and all these inquiries that all of a sudden the senator's saying ignore the request from my colleague in this body, Mr. President and your family, that's -- with a wink and a nod on national television, that's nuts. That -- that -- there's no obvious precedent for that in American history and yet we treat it as just sort of another sound bite on the Sunday shows.

BERMAN: Can I ask -- and you'll like this one --

AVLON: Oh, yes.

BERMAN: Has Lindsey Graham gone from wing man to wing nut? You, of course, wrote a book called "Wing Nuts."

AVLON: Yes, I did. I did write a book called "Wing Nuts."

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Do you have that at your fingertips?

BERMAN: So really this is more about you than Lindsey Graham. AVLON: I appreciate the framing.

Look, wing nut, I have a pretty specific definition for. And it's someone who is really on the extremes, the fringes of American politics. Those fringes are now in some cases influencing policy in the White House.

I think this is somebody who's engaging in a kind of cronyism with an administration that contradicts the principles he previously said he believed in when he was John McCain's wing man.

CAMEROTA: Joe, you know, we keep talking about how all of these investigations will end up in court and the subpoena fights will end up in court and it's going to be tied up in court forever. But, actually, we're well on our way to some of them being adjudicated tomorrow. There will be, in court, a decision about whether or not President Trump's, I think, accounting firm has to comply with these requests or maybe a subpoena. So it's already happening.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it is already happening. The danger is that through the appeals process, that many of these things will get to the Supreme Court. And then you get to the -- the -- what I think is the growing constitutional crisis, which is you now have one branch of government that's claiming that their -- their -- that Congress is not an equal branch, that they can thumb their nose at it, and that's complicated by -- if you look at what the Republicans in the Senate did by denying Merrick Garland for a year and a half even a hearing, they've been able to put the Supreme Court and make it much more to their liking. So to the extent that these things get to the Supreme Court, all of a sudden this (INAUDIBLE), all of a sudden you have a Constitution that for 250 years has delicately balanced this, that falls apart. So when people say crisis, that's the crisis.

AVLON: Yes, and that's, I think, such an important point because it's the politicization of the courts that undermines the checks and balances. It's the fact the founders didn't really imagine that you wouldn't be able to execute impeachment because the two branches would not have an ability to reason together. The frog's been boiling for quite a while, but now we're in what could be a real crisis if the judiciary doesn't step in to enforce the checks and balances that have historically --

BERMAN: Our friend Jeffrey Toobin has got a great piece in "The New Yorker."

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: And we're going to have Jeffrey on later in the show to talk about this.

And it's just that the Constitution's not built for this.

AVLON: That's right.

BERMAN: And what's happened with the Trump White House is I don't know if they consciously realize that, but they're exploiting the fact that there is no precedent for this. And it just shows how when norms are broken, sometimes the system can't handle it.

I do want to get to one other point here that's really interesting, Laura.

The president was writing over the weekend about Don McGahn. There are some very concrete things here that still could happen that, to me, are pivotal. One of them is, will Don McGahn testify before Congress and what might he say? Well, this is what the president wrote on that.

He says, I was not going to fire Bob Mueller and did not fire Bob Mueller. In fact, he was allowed to finish his report with unprecedented help from the Trump administration, in parentheses there, except for the fact that I didn't testify. Actually, lawyer Don McGahn had a much better chance of being fired than Mueller. Never a big fan.

Now, the reason this jumped out to me is that this doesn't seem to be a very smart way to talk about somebody who might decide to go testify and say things that aren't very flattering.

BARRON-LOPEZ: No, this is classic Trump, right? He, at one hand, this was his long time, you know, lawyer or counsel. Someone that he was close to. And then as soon as he feels as though the person has turned on him or is not helping him anymore, then he turns around and shames them and attacks them. That means that Congress is hoping that McGahn will come forward around May 21st, but there is no indication that they've actually had -- that that's a hard date for them, that McGahn will come. They may end up holding McGahn in contempt if he defies their asks.

[06:35:12] So we could see future votes on bundle -- a bundle contempt package depending on which officials end up defying Congress and their subpoenas.

LOCKHART: And, you know, I think all of the tweets show the weakness of the entire Mueller investigation, which is Trump never went under oath.

AVLON: Yes.

LOCKHART: And until he goes under oath, he can say whatever he wants.

BERMAN: He was under oath when he answered the question -- the written questions, I suppose.

LOCKHART: Yes, which they were non-responsive.

BERMAN: Very vague. Very vague.

All right, Joe Lockhart, Laura Barron-Lopez, John Avlon, thank you very, very much.

So they helped make President Obama's two terms possible, but those same advisers are not throwing their support to Joe Biden just yet. So what's behind this? A new report looks into that. We have the

reporter with us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Well, Joe Biden may be the frontrunner in the polls, but "The Washington Post talked" to 53 former Obama staffers and many of them say they are not ready to throw their support behind the former vice president. Why not?

[06:40:06] CNN political correspondent MJ Lee is back with us. Also, let's bring in Matt Viser, he's a national political reporter for "The Washington Post" and one of the reporters on this story.

So, Matt, what is their reluctance?

MATT VISER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Well, part of it is, this is a group who came up through Obama, a-- and they're sort of hardwired, I think, to support an inspirational, generational, historic candidate like Barack Obama. So a lot -- many of them, while they have great affection for Joe Biden, have a little hard time getting their head around the 74-year-old institutional politician that Joe Biden is. And so they're sort of flirting with other potential candidates. Pete Buttigieg is interesting to them. Beto O'Rourke is interesting. Kamala Harris. So a lot of them, Joe Biden has not yet sealed the deal, even if they have a lot of great affection and saw the relationship up close between Barack Obama and Joe Biden

BERMAN: Pete Rous (ph), who at one point was, I guess, temporary chief of staff for President Obama, has signed on as an adviser. And in so far as I can tell, Matt, from your reporting and elsewhere, no one has come out opposed to Joe Biden who was on the inside the Obama world, have they?

VISER: Correct. They have not. And Pete Rous, let's say, is a very big name among the Obama alumni. And that's a good sign for Joe Biden, that he's getting someone like that.

Anita Dunn is another name who's been advising Joe Biden and was very close to Barack Obama. And as you point out, most of the people that we spoke with had no issues with Joe Biden personally. And if he's the nominee, they'll all work for him. But this is a question sort of who's inspiring this key network. And really the only unifying force that exists in this fractious party at the moment is Barack Obama and many of his advisers. In that case, Joe Biden has yet to sort of seal the deal with them.

CAMEROTA: MJ, let's talk about Pete Buttigieg because over the weekend he gave a really interesting talk. And he talked about how he sees identity politics and how it's being used -- identity politics are being used in this election and how it's actually divisive to him.

So, listen to a portion of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I may be a part of the LGBTQ community, but being a gay man doesn't even tell me what it's like to be a trans woman of color in that same community, let alone an undocumented mother of four, or a disabled veteran, or a displaced auto worker.

But being gay, just like every other fact about me, from where I grew up to what I look like means that I have a story. And if I look to that story, I can find the building blocks, not only for empathy, but for the impetus to action, because the more you know about exclusion, the more you think about belonging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean just -- you know, a real conversation starter. And to hear it from him, in particular, is really interesting.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and he has spoken very candidly about his identity and his background and his sexual orientation I think in a way that is even pretty unusual in this day and age. The bottom line is that identity politics is a big part of the 2020 Democratic race. Even just simply based on the different diverse backgrounds of the various candidates that are running, the fact that we have candidates of color, that we have a whole bunch of women who are running, obviously Pete Buttigieg talking about his sexual orientation, that is going to be a factor and is a factor in the race now. I do think there is something to be said for a candidate wanting to go out there and say, look, I don't really want to be judged, or I don't really want to earn somebody's vote purely based on my identity. I kind of want to work for that, right? I think that is a pretty legitimate thing for a candidate to say at this point in the race

BERMAN: What's so interesting is That Pete Buttigieg, his electoral weakness has been seen as outreach to minority, African-American, Latino voters. And one of the questions has been, well, you know, Pete Buttigieg is the first major gay candidate ever. Is that something he would try to somehow use to make inroads? And the way he handled it there to me is fascinating. He's saying, no, being gay doesn't help me understand what it is to be black. But one thing it does help me understand, though, the word he used was exclusion. I just thought that was -- was a deft handling of it.

LEE: Right. And he has to know -- I mean if you're looking at the field and seeing that Joe Biden is somebody you're running against, seeing that a Kamala Harris and Cory Booker are running against you, you have to know that the -- the path is going to be that much harder for you to win over black support and minority support because other candidates have a leg up on you, whether it's because these other candidates look like the support that they're trying to get or because with somebody like Joe Biden, he has the support of the black community right now because of his close relationship with President Barack Obama in a way that is going to be very difficult for someone like Pete Buttigieg to make inroads.

[06:45:12] CAMEROTA: All right, very quickly, Matt, Joe -- "Reuters" reported that Joe Biden, in terms of climate change, was going to seek a middle ground. And, of course, all sorts of environmentalists and people on the left said, there is no middle ground. That doesn't work. And then Joe Biden's people said that he -- they, at "Reuters" got it wrong, that actually he would have a bold policy and he is not looking for some sort of middle ground. So which one is it?

VISER: This, to me, illustrates some of the challenges for Joe Biden, which is that he does seek middle ground. That's part of the core of his candidacy and the thing that he talks about most on the campaign trail, where he says warm things about Republicans and gets criticized for that in some quarters. But I think, in his candidacy, he's more centrist than the rest of this field. And so I think that you're going to see him struggle a little bit with the left as he tries to win over the center on this.

BERMAN: Interesting to see Bernie Sanders with Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez tonight if this comes up not just from him, Bernie Sanders, but from her, where does this go?

Matt Viser, MJ Lee, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

VISER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, there's severe flooding in the south after days of heavy rain. Is there any relief in sight this week?

Chad Myers has our forecast, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:50:31] CAMEROTA: Flooding is a major concern in the south after days after torrential rain as a nor'easter brings snow to parts of the northeast. You heard me.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers has your forecast.

It was so miserable yesterday, Chad. I mean you tried to warn me. It was worse than you predicted.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I apologize to all the mothers on the Northeast Coast. I --

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

MYERS: There was nothing we could do about that. Oh, my God, 46 was the high in some of these cities. But, yes, you're talking about the flooding in the Midwest now. We have 27 flood stage river gauges at major flood or higher. And the water's not going down. This is kind of a rough graph, though, to show you that Baton Rouge is still going up, three feet from the record, and that's if it doesn't rain any more.

This weather is brought to you by Boost nutritional drink. Be up for life.

So will we get more rain? Well, all the rain right now is in the northeast. And, yes, as you said, it will be cold enough in New England to pick up some snow later on tonight into tomorrow morning. Way up to the north. Green and White Mountains. We're talking Vermont and New Hampshire, all the way up even in toward the Adirondacks. That's where the snow will be for tomorrow. But it will be a cold couple of days, one after another, because the jet stream is way up in the Midwest. 81 in Denver for Wednesday. 67 in New York. But this shapes up, guys, to be a great-looking weekend. I know that's way out there, but there's some good news.

BERMAN: Yes. All you have for us, Chad, is six days from now.

MYERS: Yes.

BERMAN: You know we're in trouble.

All right, Chad Myers, thank you very much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: An unreal shot as time expires in a series-deciding game seven. Oh! The buzzer-beater in the "Bleacher Report," next.

CAMEROTA: But, first, a look at a CNN special that is close to our hearts, "Champions for Change." This week anchors and correspondents will introduce you to the people making a difference who have left a lasting impression on us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Some people --

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Some stories --

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Are so powerful --

ALISON CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: They leave their mark.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Nobody has ever affected me the way your son did.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Their work creates real impact.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: On their communities --

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: On their country --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: On us all.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Meet the change makers we have never forgotten.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a difference seven years makes.

GUPTA: This is the place where you jumped.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. This is the place where I lived. COOPER: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Bill from CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my first time, today.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are the champions for change.

BURNETT: It is amazing.

GUPTA: I just get to tell your story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Champions for Change," a week-long CNN special event, all next week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:57:32] BERMAN: The NBA playoffs provided more drama, even more dragons than "Game of Thrones" last night.

Coy Wire has more in the "Bleacher Report."

This was an incredible ending, Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Straight fire from the Raptors, John. And that game-winning buzzer-beater in Toronto was historic. 76ers players were crying. The score all tied up with four seconds to go and the Raptors' Kawhi Leonard trying to find a lane, forced into the corner with this. In. Seven-footer Joel Embiid in his face. And, look at this, the ball bounces one, two, three, four times before dropping in. Leonard unlocks legend status. Just watch the crowd erupt when the fortuitous bouncing ball dropped for the Raptors, 92-90 win.

And let's listen to the reaction from fans who were watching from outside the arena.

After Leonard's shot, emotions were raw. 76ers star Joel Embiid in tears. And from the usually stoic Leonard, a rare outburst of joy. His shot is the first game seven game-winning buzzer beater in NBA playoff history. Toronto now faces the Bucs in the Eastern Conference finals.

Now, John, your Bruins and your Red Sox won, but a question for Alisyn, the Blazers beat the Nuggets to advance to face the Warriors in their Western Conference finals. And there's a sibling rivalry. Portland's Seth Curry facing Golden State's Steph Curry. As mom, who do you cheer for in this?

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. Who has the better outfit, I mean uniform? Which one? More colorful?

WIRE: Blazers are wearing red like you today. So maybe you go for Seth.

CAMEROTA: That's what I'd do. That's how -- that's how I decide these things.

Thanks, Coy.

BERMAN: He didn't know how to answer.

CAMEROTA: No, I don't know the answer.

BERMAN: Because he was embarrassed for you, I think is what it was. He didn't what to make it worse

CAMEROTA: I mean I am a fan of a blazer. I do like a nice blazer.

BERMAN: OK.

CAMEROTA: So I would just go with that.

BERMAN: All right. Thank you to our international viewer for watching. For you, CNN "TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, tensions escalating between the U.S. and Iran. NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelling a planned trip to Russia and making a sudden detour to Brussels.

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Our aim is not war. Our aim is a change in behavior of the Iranian leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't appear that this administration has a strategy beyond loud bluster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The White House is feeling that they can sustain this refusal to comply with any subpoenas whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Democrats trying to use the powers of Congress to do political opposition research.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are seeing a breakdown. There is a failure to respect the significance of Congress' duty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:00:06] ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota.

END