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Alabama Bans Abortion in Nation's Most Restrictive Bill; Non- Emergency U.S. Staff Ordered to Leave Iraq Amid Tensions with Iran; Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) is Interviewed about U.S. Personnel Leaving Iraq. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 15, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump Jr. agreeing to sit down to be questioned.

[07:00:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a significant change, but there's still a question of what the interview is going to look like.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): He's testified under oath. If I were his lawyer, I wouldn't put him back into this circus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. Overnight a milestone in the battle over abortion.

Alabama lawmakers passed the strictest anti-abortion bill in the country, effectively banning abortion there. What makes this law so important is that it was specifically designed to push the Supreme Court to reconsider Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 case that recognizes a woman's constitutional right to end a pregnancy.

And with the new makeup of the court, many analysts, including some you will hear from right here, feel that Roe is in jeopardy.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The Alabama bill even bans abortions in the case of rape or incest. Doctors who perform the procedure will face up to 99 years or life in prison.

CNN'S Victor Blackwell joins us now with the breaking details -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, after more than four hours of bitter debate, this bill passed 25-6. Those 25 votes all Republican, all men. And abortion rights activists say the bill is blatantly unconstitutional. But pro-life activists, on the other hand, say that, as you mentioned, this could be the vehicle to launch a legitimate challenge to the Roe v. Wade decision and outlaw abortion across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOBBY SINGLETON (D), ALABAMA STATE SENATOR: I apologize to the women of Alabama for this archaic law that we passed.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Alabama lawmakers passed the nation's most restrictive abortion bill, one that could set up a direct challenge to the Supreme Court's landmark Roe v. Wade ruling. The Alabama bill bans nearly all abortions in the state, making it a felony punishable by up to 99 years or life in prison for those providing the abortion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people's rights are under attack, what do we do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up, fight back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up, fight back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up, fight back.

BLACKWELL: Abortion rights activists surround the Alabama state House, and Democrats argue against the legislation's constitutionality on the Senate floor.

LINDA COLEMAN-MADISON (D), ALABAMA STATE SENATOR: Republicans, you all, you guys used to say, "We want the government out of our life. We want them out of our business. We want them out of our bedroom." Now you're in my womb. I want you out. You don't control this. You don't own this.

BLACKWELL: The law would allow very few exceptions: "to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother, ectopic pregnancy and if the unborn child has a lethal anomaly."

Democrats tried to add an amendment that would allow abortions in cases of rape and incest, but it failed.

CLYDE CHAMBLISS (R), ALABAMA STATE SENATOR: A life is a life. And even if it is -- its origins are in very difficult situations, that life is still precious. Life is a gift of our creator. And we must do everything that we can to protect life.

BLACKWELL: Republican lawmakers say the measure was intentionally drafted to be rigid with limited restrictions, in order to be challenged in lower courts and reach the Supreme Court.

REP. TERRI COLLINS (R), ALABAMA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I think everybody I know in the House and I believe, finally, we saw in the Senate, understood exactly what the purpose of this bill was.

We'll never get a heartbeat bill to be constitutional until Roe v. Wade is decided and reversed.

BLACKWELL: At least 16 states have recently passed or introduced bills restricting abortions after a doctor can detect a fetal heartbeat in the womb, which is usually about six weeks. ERIC JOHNSTON, ALABAMA PRO-LIFE COALITION: This is the first time in

46 years that the makeup on the Supreme Court has changed where there's possibly enough conservatives on there who believe Roe v. Wade is incorrectly decided.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: More on that lack of exception for rape or incest cases. The Republican senator who ushered this -- this bill through the state Senate was asked what a young girl should do if she's the victim of incest and finds out that she's pregnant.

He says that he hopes the young ladies would be educated by their parents or guardians that they need to get physical and mental help. No mention of what happens when that parent or guardian is the perpetrator of that incest and rape.

Alabama Governor Kay Ivey has six days to sign the bill. She's expected to do so. She has not commented publicly on it just yet -- Alisyn, John.

CAMEROTA: Victor Blackwell, thank you very much for all of that background on this.

Joining us now to help us understand it is Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent; Jeffrey Toobin, former federal prosecutor and CNN chief legal analyst; and David Gregory, CNN political analyst.

Jeffrey Toobin, you were on NEW DAY months ago when Brett Kavanaugh was being confirmed, and you predicted then this will be the end of Roe v. Wade. Here now is a challenge. What do you see happening next?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: The end of Roe v. Wade. You know, President Bush -- Donald -- the candidate Trump -- I don't know what, Bush? I don't know. Candidate Donald Trump said repeatedly he was going to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

[07:05:04] What he meant by that, I think, was he will appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

CAMEROTA: Sounds like it.

TOOBIN: That's what he's done. There have been two confirmations. Anthony Kennedy, who was a vote for Roe v. Wade, has been replaced by Brett Kavanaugh, who will vote to overturn it. There are now five

votes on the court to overturn Roe v. Wade.

All Alabama is doing is following the news. They have seen who was appointed to the Supreme Court, and elections have consequences. And this is one of them.

BERMAN: Well, let me just say, Jeffrey, obviously, we need to wait and see what happens. This will be appealed. The law will be overturned in federal district court and appeals court. That's what will get it to the Supreme Court. We'll wait and see.

But, Jeffrey, some people saw a sign this week in another decision from the Supreme Court, where they overturned precedent in a case that dealt with sovereign immunity, basically. And people look at that case and say, "Look, if the court was willing to overturn precedent there, they might overturn precedent somewhere else."

And Stephen Breyer in dissent wrote, "Today's decision can only cause one to wonder which cases the Court will overrule next."

Do you see that as a preview.

TOOBIN: The case that -- it was about a really obscure issue, as you point out, of sovereign immunity. But Justice Clarence Thomas, who wrote the majority opinion, devoted his entire opinion, basically, to describing the circumstances when the Supreme Court should overturn their own precedents.

And this -- this precedent in that case was almost exactly the same age as Roe v. Wade. And the language that Justice Thomas used was very similar to the language that has been used to urge the court to overturn Roe v. Wade.

And Stephen Breyer, in his dissent, he cited one of the big abortion cases as an example of the kind of case that would be overturned by this kind of language.

So all the forces are converging on this issue of whether Roe will be overturned and allowing states once again to ban abortion, which many, many states will, given the opportunity.

CAMEROTA: Well, Dana, the 2020 Democratic candidates are not -- say that they're not going to let this happen without a fight. Here's Elizabeth Warren's statement from yesterday when she heard about this: "This ban is dangerous and exceptionally cruel. And the bill's authors want to use it to overturn Roe v. Wade. I've lived in that America. And let me tell you, we are not going back. Not now. Not ever. We will fight this, and we will win." She sounds confident.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CAMEROTA: More confident, certainly, than Jeffrey.

BASH: Yes. Well, look, I mean, politically speaking, the Republicans have had the advantage on getting people to vote on this issue for the past several decades. And Democrats simply have not. I mean, let's just be honest. They simply have not, since Roe v. Wade.

And Republicans and conservatives, in particular, have taken pages from the liberal activist playbook in order to make abortion -- and other social issues, but obviously, we're talking about abortion here -- front and center for voters.

And this issue in Alabama and the way that it's going to wind its way up through the federal courts could change that. It really could. Because Jeffrey, the -- getting Gorsuch on the court, getting Kavanaugh on the court is something that is -- people understand. And they know.

But it's not going to be a reality until they see it moving through the courts and have a real threat to people for whom the idea of having the option to have a legal abortion is fundamental to their rights. And I really believe that it could change the discussion and the discourse in the 2020 election.

BERMAN: Some of the people arguing against this law in Alabama were trying to put a human face on it, keep it from being a scholarly or legal discussion here but just a discussion about lives. Remember, this law bans abortion in the case of rape and incest.

And I want you to listen to this exchange, David. And talk about sort of the social implications here. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. VIVIAN DAVIS FIGURES (D), ALABAMA STATE SENATE: Well, do you -- do you know what it's like to be raped?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma'am, I don't.

FIGURES: Do you know what it's like to have a relative commit incest on you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On me? No, ma'am.

FIGURES: Yes, on you. OK. So that's one of those traumas that a person experiences, just like that child experienced. And to take that choice away from that person who had such a traumatic act committed against them, to be left with the residue of that person, if you will. To have to bring that child into this world and be reminded of that every single day. Some people can do that. You know? Some people can. But some can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:10:11] BERMAN: David, this is wrong. I mean, this issue is quite raw.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, and I think the draconian nature of this law in Alabama is actually going to hurt the cause of those who are trying to roll back abortion rights because of the nature of this law, as it starts to play out in a debate across the country politically, locally, at the state level and on the national level.

And we'll see that for a new generation, who hasn't had to debate these issues before, who've taken for granted the idea of Roe v. Wade and abortion rights.

I don't agree with Jeffrey, however, that we can declare this over, and we should just go home and wait for Roe v. Wade to be overturned. I think there's all the dynamics that he talked about that are spot on. But there are other dynamics, as well, including the predilections of the chief justice, his views about the way the court is seen in the country, as an institutionalist, as somebody who wants to be more incremental in his approach. It may end up with the same result with the law being overturned.

But I think there's other factors here in terms of how they look at it, whether this case would be the vehicle, whether they would take some step toward overturning Roe v. Wade here but not go all the way. I think there's a lot of factors to consider that shouldn't just be waved off with the back of the hand. Because we look at the ideology of those on the court and say this is a done deal, 5-4.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, legally speaking, this bill would make doctors, any doctor who performs an abortion, have to face prison -- face life in prison. Ninety-nine years to life in prison.

And to David's point, this is not where most Americans are. All public polling suggests that this is way beyond where Americans are comfortable with. Even if they are anti-apportion, pro-life, they are not comfortable with jailing women, jailing doctors, and forcing 11- year-old rape victims to carry their rapist's baby to term.

TOOBIN: But this is where the Republican Party is in this country. This is where the Republican platform is. This is -- I mean, you know, the -- to sort of pretend --

BASH: Not rape and incest.

TOOBIN: -- that this is not what millions of Americans believe and that they believe abortion is murder. And, you know, if abortion is murder, then rape and incest is not a -- you know, there should be no abortions allowed with rape or incest either. I mean, that's the argument that the majority in Alabama accepted.

And, you know, people in big cities may not agree with these arguments.

CAMEROTA: No.

TOOBIN: But millions of Americans do. We had an election where we had a president who could not have been more explicit about how he wants to reshape the court. He's had that opportunity. He's done it.

And I mean, I -- just you know, we may not like it. A lot of people may not like it. But this is what happened.

BASH: I agree -- I agree with Jeffrey that people on the coast here in New York, on the West Coast, and in the big cities in the more liberal, urban areas may not understand the fundamental opposition to abortion as murder, which is what anti-abortion advocates who fundamentally believe it in their heart believe.

But I don't necessarily agree that -- I mean, I don't know how far down this we want to get. But, you know, the clip that you just played about rape and incest, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that that is a different --

CAMEROTA: This passed with all Republican men. BASH: Alabama -- well, exactly. Alabama notwithstanding, when we're

talking about on a national level, you know, state by state, a federal level eventually, probably soon, that's probably a different -- I think that's a different kettle of fish.

And I also just want to say that I'm just thinking also about your interview yesterday with the retired --

BERMAN: John Paul Stevens.

BASH: -- justice, John Paul Stevens. And you had very specific conversation about precedent. And he is old school, and he believes that Roe v. Wade is going to be fine, because it's been stare --

BERMAN: Stare decisis.

BASH: -- decisis. Yes.

BERMAN: He told me he does not think it will be overturned. That was before this other ruling earlier this week. So I don't know. I don't know if he would still be as optimistic. But he absolutely thinks -- he thinks Roe is safe.

All right. Dana, David, Jeffrey, great discussion.

I do want to point out, we just learned we're going to have a Democratic lawmaker from Alabama, who voted against this measure and has apologized to women in Alabama for the passing of this law, he will join us very shortly.

CAMEROTA: It will be interesting to talk to him.

Meanwhile, the State Department ordering U.S. embassy personnel to leave Iraq amid these escalating tensions with Iran. So we're going to talk to a senator on the Foreign Relations Committee about what is happening. What is Congress being told about all this, next?

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CAMEROTA: We do have some breaking news. The State Department is ordering all nonemergency U.S. government workers to leave Iraq because of a high risk of violence and kidnapping.

This comes as the U.S. has deployed an aircraft carrier, bombers and more Patriot missiles to the Persian Gulf with whatever's happening with Iran.

So joining us now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He serves on the Foreign Relations and Judiciary Committees.

Senator, thank you very much for being here to help us understand this breaking news this morning. Do you understand what the precipitating incident was or the intelligence that is causing this ratcheting up of tensions, including personnel having to leave Iraq?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Alisyn, I have asked for and have not yet gotten a classified briefing on the intelligence that caused this action and other actions.

As you know, President Trump has ordered an aircraft carrier, battle group and a wing of bombers into the Middle East, citing intelligence about Iran. The reason the State Department would order all nonessential personnel to leave Iraq would be they are the closest to Iran and the most likely to be at threat from some of the Iranian- backed militias who operate fairly widely within Iraq. So that would be another sign that the administration is taking this intelligence very seriously.

I think we are now in a quite dangerous situation where a miscalculation by either side could lead us into conflict.

[07:20:07] The Iranians are saying today that it was not their intention to strike four oil tankers in the Gulf, that that was either the United States trying to set them up as they claimed, or radical elements within their own country trying to precipitate a conflict.

That's just a small but real reminder, Alisyn, that when you project force into a very volatile region; and you've got real tensions between Iran and the Saudis. We have to be careful. We need a strategy. The Senate needs a briefing on the relevant intelligence.

CAMEROTA: Senator, you're on Foreign Relations. Yesterday, we had your ranking member, Senator Bob Menendez, on. He, too, had not received a briefing, he told us.

COONS: That's correct.

CAMEROTA: Is this strange, that you haven't received a briefing from anyone in the administration?

COONS: It is. It's particularly strange in the case of Senator Bob Menendez, one of the smartest senators and someone very experienced on Iran and quite hawkish.

So frankly, if the administration was to find some support in the Democratic caucus on getting tough on Iran, presenting the ranking member of Foreign Relations with credible intelligence of an imminent Iranian threat would get a prompt and fair hearing from Senator Menendez. So it's striking that even he has not been offered a classified briefing.

My hope is that our leadership will work it out in the next couple of days. But I think it's important that the skepticism we're hearing from our vital allies is also mirrored here in the Senate. We don't have the briefing yet to justify these actions, and many of us are concerned.

CAMEROTA: Even Senator Lindsey Graham on your committee, who of course, is a close ally of the president, says he's, quote, "in the dark."

Why isn't the administration briefing you on these things that are so important where equipment is being moved and tensions ratcheting up? COONS: Well, Alisyn, this is part of a broader pattern where the

administration is refusing to respond to congressional requests for all sorts of information and materials. I mean, everything from Trump's taxes to witnesses to come and testify.

But on this particular matter, which is a more urgent matter of national security, to have even their own allies in the Senate in the dark is pretty striking and concerning.

CAMEROTA: Do you have confidence in acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan?

COONS: Well, I know Secretary Shanahan. Sadly, we've met twice over at Dover Air Force Base, because there were dignified transfer ceremonies of American soldiers who had been killed in Afghanistan.

You know, he seems a competent industry insider, someone who was a leader at Boeing and knows a great deal about defense procurement. But the secretary has no military experience directly, unlike his predecessor.

I'll remind you, Secretary Mattis was a decorated four-star Marine Corps general who had spent a lifetime commanding men in combat, men and women in our armed forces in combat and commanded very broad respect here on the Hill.

It was Secretary Mattis who abruptly resigned after President Trump made an unexpected decision to pull all of our troops out of Syria on a call with the president of Turkey, something that a bipartisan group of us worked hard to reverse.

It is striking that the president, who just so recently announced an intention to pull everybody out of Syria, an ill-considered decision, is now talking about -- is blustering about sending possibly hundreds of thousands of American troops into the region to confront Iran. Where is the strategy?

CAMEROTA: I want to talk to you about what happened yesterday with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. He met with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, and President Vladimir Putin. Secretary Pompeo says that he told them -- and I'll just paraphrase him -- that interference in the American elections is, quote, "unacceptable" and that the U.S. would not tolerate that.

COONS: Good.

CAMEROTA: Are you satisfied that he has gone far enough with sending that message to them?

COONS: I think it's good and constructive to have our secretary of state, who has a forceful personality communicating directly to Foreign Minister Lavrov and President Putin. But I don't think it's enough.

I frankly think this message needs to be delivered forcefully and in person by President Trump, as well. Exactly why Russia continues to interfere in our domestic affairs and why the head of the FBI, Director Wray, just testified to us in the Judiciary Committee last week.

He fully expects Russia to continue and even step up their engagement. My conclusion is that that's partly because of the ways in which President Trump has dragged his feet or refused to take seriously and to take actions to ensure that Russia gets the message by feeling some very real pain.

Congress ultimately passed sanctions on Russia for interfering in our election over the president's initial objections. One of the hearings I've got today, I have the secretary of treasury in front of me on an Approps Committee. We will be talking about sanctions enforcement and the importance of investing more, making sure that we are enforcing our sanctions against Russia, against North Korea, and against other countries.

[07:25:02] CAMEROTA: Very quickly, while I have you, you know that there is this also this escalating trade war with China. You say that you believe President Trump is sort of swinging the tariff club willy- nilly or wildly around, I think, was your words. How do you want him -- what do you want to do with tariffs? How do you want him to penalize China?

COONS: Well, I recently led a congressional delegation to China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. And our vital allies in the region -- South Korea and Japan, were surprised and somewhat offended to have national security justified tariffs on steel and aluminum applied against him. The same goes for Canada, the U.K., Germany. I have heard this from national leaders in all of these countries, given that we've concluded negotiations for the MCA, the new NAFTA that the president is pushing.

I think those tariffs ought to be relieved for Canada, for example. And given that South Korea is a vital ally, both in our ongoing confrontation with North Korea and in partnership against China and a variety of issues. I don't think this is constructive.

I think the president should be marshalling our allies to confront China. I support the idea that President Trump is genuinely directly confronting China's innovation mercantilism, the ways that they've stolen our innovations and our inventions.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COONS: But I think he's going about it in a reckless way. There is no clear end to this and no off-ramp.

CAMEROTA: Senator Chris Coons, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY.

COONS: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Come back soon -- John.

BERMAN: All Right. Beto O'Rourke admitting to a big mistake as he tries to reset his campaign. Chris Cillizza here with his midweek grades. That's next.

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