Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Meets With President Of Swiss Confederation As Iran Tensions Grow; U.S. Moves To Declassify Iranian Missile Pictures Amid Tensions; President Trump Expected To Unveil Immigration Plan Today; U.S. Lays Groundwork To Ban Chinese Telecom Giant; Farmers On Edge Amid Tensions Between U.S. And China. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 16, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto. Poppy is off today. We begin this hour with President Trump reaching out and pushing back on threats over Iran. He is preparing to meet next hour with the President of Switzerland. Why does that matter? Because their country has long been a go-between in the absence of formal diplomatic relations between Tehran and Washington, even those non-diplomatic relations took a sudden turn for the worst two weeks ago, and now we know why.

The New York Times says that U.S. intelligence received photos of Iranian forces loading missiles onto small boats on the Persian Gulf. A forceful U.S. response was driven by hard liners in the White House and the State Department, but the President is said to be chafing at the drum beats for war and pushing now for diplomacy. Imagine that.

CNN's Abby Phillip joins me now. Again, is this meeting with the Swiss President about establishing perhaps a channel with Iran to diffuse the tensions building there now?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, this is apparently about President Trump making it very clear to Iran, and really the whole world, that he wants negotiations to occur as a way of perhaps bringing down the temperature on some of these tensions that have been escalating for weeks now. But it is a little bit intention with what has actually been going on in the administration, which is ratcheting up of the rhetoric around Iran, moving military resources to the region in response to what the administration is saying some credible threats coming from that regime.

And so President Trump is trying to assert himself here, saying that this is the way I would rather do business. And it reflects a tension within his advisers, particularly with his National Security Adviser, John Bolton, who, in the President's view, has been pushing toward military confrontation with Iran and also with Venezuela. Just a general kind of combativeness and hawkishness from Bolton is something that has rubbed President Trump the wrong way.

Trump has, just in the last week or two, said that he actually tempers John Bolton, and the White House has pushed back on the suggestion that there is a major disagreement between the President and his advisers. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the Press Secretary, said just this morning that there is no disagreement on this issue and that the President is the ultimate decision-maker.

But there's clearly a disconnect and our sources are telling us that President Trump has expressed to people close to him that he is frustrated by this sense of hawkishness that's coming from his team of advisers. And this Swiss meeting is his way of saying what I want to do is get on the phone with Iran and cut a deal.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. The President wants to talk with Iran. Something he's criticized his predecessor for repeatedly.

Let's talk about this intelligence because this is at the center of this issue here, because this is what raised the alarm, this question about these missiles. Senators, and I spoke to one of them earlier today, Bob Menendez, frustrated that they have not gotten a briefing on this. But now there's talk of at least briefing the gang of eight, the senior senators and those on the relevant committees.

PHILLIP: Exactly, this gang of eight meeting we're expecting to happen today. And the topic we've been told is on the Middle East, broadly. But we believe that it will cover this issue of what is happening in Iran. And there has been a public dispute between officials, for example, in Europe and in the United States about how credible is this threat. But U.S. officials are telling us it is very real. And I think what is happening in this gang of eight briefing is in a classified setting, they're going to get some more information about what the Intelligence Community is seeing as a threat from Iran, and that's going to be critical in moving this process forward.

Whether we will find out more about that is an open question. These gang of eight briefings are usually very closely held, Jim, as you know. And so it's going to be in a classifying setting for that.

SCIUTTO: Abby Phillip, thanks very much.

Now, to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. So tell us about this intelligence that set off the alarm bells here, because there were questions about it, the administration feeling quite strongly about this. What do we know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it was CNN that broke the news last week that what the intelligence was was multi-faceted and it did include imagery of Iranian missiles on small boats being run by Iran's Militant Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. We have known that for some time.

[10:05:02]

The question now is as they begin to brief Congress and some of the skeptics is whether the Intelligence Community, whether the Pentagon, can demonstrate they have the intelligence that shows a new and different pattern of activity by the Iranians. Everyone knows that they engage in a very adamant fiery rhetoric, very anti-American in that part of the world, knows that they have engaged in provocations in the past. So what is new here, you might ask, what will the intelligence show? The Pentagon is adamant that the intelligence has shown that Iranian elements are preparing, very clear words, preparing for a possible attack against U.S. forces.

Now, since this emerged last week, that attack, thankfully, has not happened and the Pentagon's strategy appears to be one that President Trump may be embracing, which is deterrent. That's why they sent an aircraft carrier, Why they B-52 bombers to show Iran the price of doing anything would be way too high and to try to make them back off. Jim?

SCIUTTO: The question here, and this is The New York Times reporting, is that there's a question of interpreting those photos as to whether those missiles were put on those boats to presage a new offensive attack on U.S. forces, others reading it as being perhaps defensive, and I know that's a judgment call. But is that the correct description of the dispute, the remaining question about the intelligence?

STARR: Well, I think that the burden will be on the Intelligence Community and the Pentagon to try and show Congress that this intelligence, the imagery and the intercepts, the communications intercepts that the U.S. has, show a new and different intent. They show a capability. The weapons are out there. Do they show an intent that is somehow different than the routine operations of the Iranians? Jim?

SCIUTTO: And do you know, and do folks who have different agendas use that intelligence to justify a position and read it one way, others read it another way, always a question. Barbara Starr, thank you very much.

As tensions build, Iran's Foreign Minister said his country is using, quote, maximum restraint but is prepared to defend itself against the U.S. Our Fred Pleitgen is on the ground in Iran. And, Fred, I wonder how Iran is reading this apparent internal battle in the Trump administration, trying to divine Iran's intentions here but also device the next best step because the President seems to be making clear he doesn't want to get into a shooting war with Iran.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. And I think the Iranians are very much aware of the fact there are those divisions inside the White House. On the one hand, you have, really, the political side here in Iran, including Iran's supreme leader who came out a little less than a day ago. And he said, look, unequivocally, there's not going to be a war with the United States. He said that Iran is not interested in a war with the United States, and he also said he believes the United States is not interested in a war with Iran because they think it's not something that's in their best interests.

So you had Javad Zarif, which you were just talking about, said, look, it's the U.S. that's escalating. The Iranians don't want another escalation. On the other hand though, you also have the Iranian military, and mostly coming from the Revolutionary Guard Corps, the elite wing of Iran's military, and they got a new leader just a couple weeks ago. And he came out late last night and he said that he believed Iran was on the cusp with a full-blown confrontation with the United States. He said that he believes that the U.S. was trying to get Iran to its knees. He said he thinks that the U.S. will fail, and he also says that he believes this is the biggest test for the Islamic revolution since 1979, since, of course, the revolution itself.

Now, it's interesting to hear some of these Iranian commanders talk because they are quite bold, some of them, in the statements they make. I spoke to a former senior member of the Revolutionary Guard. And he said to me, look, what the Americans need to understand is that if there is some sort of miscalculation that the Iranians are not just going to use their missiles but use their proxy forces as well, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Fred Pleitgen in Iran, good to have you here.

Let's discuss now with Ambassador John Limbert. He was the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Iran during the Obama administration. Ambassador, good to have you on the program this morning.

AMB. JOHN LIMBERT, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR IRAN: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you your reaction to what is an interesting dynamic here, that President Trump, who pulled the U.S. out of the Iran deal and repeatedly criticized President Obama for talking, negotiating with Iran, that apparently now, he wants to talk with Iran to find a way out of this. Surprised by that?

LIMBERT: Not really. I mean, I'm gratified that things -- they have backed away from what looked like a very serious situation. But, in fact, if the President wants to talk to Iran, there're ways of doing it. And I might suggest that threats and accusations and the kind of pressure which is clearly aimed at bringing down the Islamic republic may not be the best way to go about it.

[10:10:04]

SCIUTTO: It seems that those threats are emanating from one camp in this administration, perhaps led by John Bolton, who, and it's not the first time he's gone down the regime change path. He's been very public about his desire for that. I mean, do you see that as the fault lines of this administration, sort of a Bolton camp and maybe surprisingly, again, the President on the other side, looking for a more conciliatory approach?

LIMBERT: Well, it's hard to say. But in the case of Ambassador Bolton, the motivation is very clear. He's never hinted at it. I mean, he's doing what his pay masters want him to do. His pay masters are, of course, in this Iranian cult group called the Mojahedin-e Khalq, or the MEK. He's been speaking on their behalf. He's been a paid speaker on their behalf for many years. I understand he makes $25,000 to $50,000 a speech. And their agenda is very clear. They would like to provoke a war. And he has been advocating their position for a long time. In the case of Secretary Pompeo, I'm not sure what his motives are. I mean, it really doesn't matter in the sense of what he's doing, but he seems to have this unremitting hostility. And the only way that he will deal with the Islamic republic if it -- would be for it to surrender completely. Under those circumstances, you can see how it might be difficult for the Iranians to pick up the phone and dial the numbers that they have.

SCIUTTO: The President's intent here seems to be to get Iran to negotiate again a new better deal. Of course, the President talks about a better deal and a whole host of circumstances here. But the Iranians are saying, hey, if we're going to do that, you've got to get back in the deal we already negotiated. And is there any -- you have covered Iran for a long time. Do you see any chance that the Iranians would go back to the table with Trump without him re-entering the nuclear agreement?

LIMBERT: Unlikely, simply because he has not shown good faith. He has -- he basically tore up a deal that was made not only by the United States and his predecessor, but by four other countries in addition to Iran, and simply walked away from it probably for largely domestic political reasons, being obsessed with his predecessor and having this persona, wanting to project this persona of being the world's greatest negotiator.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see, see if the greatest negotiator can get a better deal or even a negotiation for a better deal. Ambassador Limbert, thanks for coming on today.

LIMBERT: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Happening now, the FBI briefing Florida lawmakers on the Russian 2016 election hack in their state. Will this change how we operate and secure America's voting systems ahead of 2020 when we know Russia is going to attack again?

Plus, President Trump is set to unveil a new immigration plan, but he is already facing some pushback from within his own party.

And the President won Pennsylvania in 2016. That was key to his victory. Joe Biden just made another move to make sure he doesn't win it again in 2020.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: The President will unveil his new immigration plan this afternoon, but not even republicans may be onboard. CNN is learning that the proposal will focus on border security, imagine that, as well as this, merit-based immigration. It is aimed at gaining support from his own party. One thing, though, and this is key, admitted from the immigration proposal is DACA, the fate of the nearly 4 million Dreamers, as they're known, still a sticking within the Republican Party, one the President is avoiding for now. CNN Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash joins me now. So let's get to the seriousness of this proposal, Dana. Without dealing with DACA, which has been a central issue in this from the beginning, is this a serious legislative proposal?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is it a serious proposal? Yes. Is it a proposal that could get enough republican votes, never mind democratic votes? Unclear, and unlikely, I think, it's fair to say at this point. Back to the first question about the plan, which you have there on the screen, what Jared Kushner and the White House's goal obviously has been is to say we're going to go beyond the very, very harsh draconian rhetoric you hear from the President and some of his top aides almost on a daily basis and acknowledge to the business community, especially, we need immigration. We need legal immigration, and that's where the merit- based comes in.

SCIUTTO: It's a good point too, because, oftentimes, I mean, people imagine so that the battle lines are so clearly drawn, but the business community tends to support republicans. They have been saying to republicans, guys, agricultural industry, manufacturing, they rely on this. And you can't put up a big wall and say no one come in.

BASH: Precisely. No, that's exactly right. But those are the business community republicans, and I guess some democrats, but mostly republicans. But then you have the hard line republicans who say, you know, the wall should go to the sky and people who are not from this country should not come in certainly illegally, but we should limit legal immigration.

[10:20:05]

So that's one tranche of the problem.

The other is what you mentioned, Jim, which is there's a democratic house. There is a Republican Senate, but you need 60 votes to get anything done, which means some democrats need to come onboard. And so what that means is that for anything like this, there has to be a negotiation. So I have talked to a senior republican who is intimately involved in these conversations this morning, who said a couple things. These are the problems which are not unfamiliar. We have heard about these for a long time.

Number one, the democrats. They are skeptical because they have seen the rug pulled out from under them before when they have gone to negotiate and have what they thought were deals on this issue before. And then the other issue is that they see the political writing on the wall. They do have control of the House. They could take control of the White House.

The biggest issue is still republicans and the President himself, because he has not been willing, and really reluctant to anger his base. And if you take a step towards DACA, towards making anybody undocumented in this country able to stay legally, he is going to anger the base. He has the political capital to do it, he's being told by a lot of people, he just hasn't been willing to do it. And unless he's willing to take that step, anything even small is going to be unlikely to get through.

SCIUTTO: So even Lindsey Graham is saying that this is not intended to become law, that this is essentially a political proposal here, is that what we're looking at? I mean, is it just a play, you know, towards 2020?

BASH: Well, you know, yes, yes, or an opening salvo to show that they are thinking about immigration policy, not just rhetoric, at the White House. But the question is whether or not it gets from proposal to real discussion. And you mentioned this in the intro, Jared Kushner, just the beginning, the fact that he's had to try to shore up republicans, he hasn't talked to democrats about this, gives you an early indication of how tough this issue continues to be, especially as we're getting closer to the election.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that's the fact. Dana Bash, thanks very much.

BASH: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Now, to the escalating tensions between the U.S. and China. President Trump is issuing an executive order barring U.S. firms from using telecom gear that the administration deems a national security threat. The move, likely to have a major impact on one of the world's largest providers of telecommunications equipment, and that is Huawei, which, of course, happens to be a Chinese company, a major one. This as the two nations' battle over not just security but the trade war as well.

Once again, American farmers, they are among those caught really in the middle of this following the latest round of Chinese retaliatory tariffs, those in retaliation for President Trump's.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is talking to farmers in Central Indiana this morning. What are they telling you? I'm curious, because a lot of farmers supported the President's aggressive posture regarding China because China, let's be fair, has been a cheater for a long time in trade. Is that support for the President wavering as farmers pay the price?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Good morning, Jim. Well, there's no doubt that farmers here in Indiana are hurting. But they do very much support the President in his efforts to negotiate with China. They're sort of going with this mentality, no pain, no gain. They believe that the pinch that they're feeling now is actually worth it for a positive outcome. Today, we're on Phil Ramsey's farm here in Indiana. He normally sells about a third of his soy crop to China, but as we know, they're not buying right now. He's talked about the hardships that that has placed on him, having to pinch pennies, how he's going to pay for groceries and keep the electricity on here at his farm to keep it running.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL RAMSEY, INDIANA FARMER: A year ago, I was very patient because I thought we were dealing with a reasonable country and reasonable people that would come to an agreement. And now, I'm not patient. I'm anxious for them to get something worked out. I have no idea how to get the White House and Congress together. It's almost like a bunch of junior high kids out there. And I am disappointed in our congressmen for not thinking about the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: Jim, you hear the frustration there. And I spoke to Phil, and he told me that he's had some sleepless nights about this. He's really worried about whether or not he'll be able to sell his soy and corn, and for what price, whether or not he's going to be able to pay important bills.

[10:25:00]

But as you heard in the beginning there, he very much still supports the President in his efforts, hoping that, eventually, they'll close that deal with China. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Vanessa, thanks very much. Great to have you out in the field on this.

Well, there's a war under way. You may not know it, both Russia and China waging war, a secret war on the U.S. It's called The Shadow War. It spans from under the waves, submarine warfare, all the way into space where they deployed space weapons. This trade war part of that war as well, and it affects each one of us. I write about this in my new book The Shadow War out just this week. I would really be flattered if you took a moment to take a look at it. I have been working on this a long time.

Well, coming up, location, location, location. Joe Biden announces where he will set up his 2020 campaign headquarters. Well, listen to this, in a state that typically plays a very big role in presidential elections. It is no accident that's where he's going to be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]