Return to Transcripts main page
Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) Says President Trump Should be Impeached, Joe Biden Launched Official Campaign With a Big Rally in Philadelphia; Iran's Foreign Minister is Declaring There Will be No War With The U.S.; Trade War with China is Putting American Farmers In a Tough Spot; Dr. Sanjay Gupta Explores How Science And Mysticism Coexists In Turkey. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 18, 2019 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. And we begin with breaking news, perhaps a breaking down at the very least, a leaking one. For the very first time a sitting Republican lawmaker says President Trump should be impeached.
Congressman Justin Amash has been a frequent Trump critic and he has not ruled out a 2020 bid. But he is a Republican and he represents a heavily conservative seat in Michigan. Amash makes his argument in a lengthy Twitter thread. I want to read part of it to you.
He writes,"Here are my principle conclusions.1, Attorney General Barrhas deliberately misrepresented Mueller's report.2, President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.3, partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances. And 4, few members of Congress have read the report".
"I offer these conclusions", he writes,"only after having read Mueller's redacted report carefully and come having, read or watched pertinent statements and testimony and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.
In comparing Barr's principal conclusions, congressional testimony and other statements to Mueller's report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's analysis and findings.
In fact Mueller's report identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the President of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence".
He goes on to say,"We have witnessed members of Congress from both parties shift their views 180 degrees on the importance of character, on the principles of obstruction of justice depending on whether they're discussing Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.
Few members of Congress have even read Mueller's report.Their minds were made up based on partisan affiliation and it showed.With representatives and senators from both parties issuing definitive statements on the 448 page reports conclusions within just hours of its release."
CNN White House Correspondent Boris Sanchez joins us just outside the White House this evening.Boris what more can you tell us about Justin Amash.Is this surprising?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey there,Ana. As you know that he's been a frequent critic of the President. Amash, obviously a Republican somebody who is very independent-minded, though, he has drawn criticism from fellow Republicans in the past for some of his stances on a number of issues.
Representative Devin Nunes once called him al Qaeda's biggest fan in Congress.This is a bit surprising especially his tweets about the Attorney General William Barr. Here's more on his background.We will put that full screen back up.
He was elected back in 2010.He's a strong libertarian, a constitutionalist by just about every measure of the word.And as I said, he's been a frequent critic of the President. He was actually asked about that criticism back in 2016 by the Huffington Post.And take a look at what he told them.
He said,"I'm not here to represent a particular political party. I'm here to represent all of my constituents and to follow the Constitution".Another exchange that he had specifically with Michael Cohen, the President's Former Attorney,also comes to mind.
Remember this is when Cohen was testifying before the House Oversight Committee, a lot of Republicans were pushing questioning that led to questions about the credibility of Michael Cohen, suggesting that he was lying during his testimony.
Amash took a different route.He actually asked Michael Cohen this look,"What is the truth President Trump is most afraid of people knowing?"So he's somebody who isn't really a typical rank-and-file Republican and he is very clear and in his values and where he stands.
This is meaningful and symbolic,But let's keep in mind, even one of President Trump's harshest critics House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she said that the President demonstrates behavior that is impeachable every day, but she still doesn't want to pursue impeachment, because of the political realities and the fact that the Senate is led by Republicans, so there likely wouldn't be a conviction if there was impeachment, Ana.
CABRERA: OK. Boris Sanchez, at the White House for us, thank you.Of course, keep us posted if we hear from the President or the White House on this this evening.
With us now Commentary Writer and Editor at the Washington Examiner,Siraj Hashmi and Assistant Editor for The Washington Post and CNN Political Commentator,David Swerdlick Siraj, is this the dam breaking with Republicans or is this someone who is thinking about a 2020 run?
SIRAJ HASHMI, COMMENTARY WRITER AND EDITOR AT THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER:I would agree that Justin Amash is thinking about the 2020 run.He sets a roll call in April of this year that he's thought about running on the libertarian ticket.
And you have to think about the actual thread that a Amash rode, he said that "Barr was misleading or deliberately misleading or he intended to mislead, which suggests that he knows what Barr's intentions are and he doesn't give specific examples of what he was misleading on.
[19:05:00] One particular part that - the giant debate has been about obstruction of justice whether Trump actually committed it or he did it and the question of impeachment, which is what Amash is actually going after, that is a political question not a criminal prosecution type of question.
So what we're looking at here is that Amash in some ways doesn't seem to understand that there's a very high standard for high crimes and misdemeanors in order to proceed forward with an impeachment, and at this moment it doesn't sound like there is that - it has met that high standard.You have to think that there is the ulterior motive that Amash has and that is running for President.
CABRERA: But because this is a political issue, the issue of impeachment, we know Democrats have up to this point been saying,"Let's just you know see this through, let's continue our investigations".
They haven't been quick to go there,David, in terms of that question now does, it change the calculus for Nancy Pelosi giving a Republicans on the record saying it's time to impeach.
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Ana so let me be clear.Where I agree with Siraj is that this doesn't change the big picture that much.
Justin Amash, a fifth term Congressman,who for all intents and purposes is a libertarian - the only libertarian in Congress, is not going to put a huge dent in President Trump's support.He's at 43.6 percent in today's real clear politics of approval average, that's right where he was the day he took office.
That being said, I think it is notable that you have a member of the President's own party saying essentially that impeachable offenses were committed and where I slightly differ is on this point.
I read between the lines of what Congressman Amash tweeted as saying, look, even if there's not chargeable crimes under federal law here, that he believes, that the Attorney General misled the public about whether or not there was sort of lowercase C collusion here. And it sounds like his conclusion, after looking the report, is that there was.
And he has gone further in this Twitter thread then some Democrats have.So I do think now it's not going to make Speaker Pelosi, to your question, go forward with impeachment proceedings Monday morning at 8 o'clock, but I do think it is going to give fresh fodder to people on both sides of the aisle to relitigate some of the points in the report.
CABRERA: But David do you think that it will lead other Republicans to follow under Amash's cover, following in his call for impeachment or his break from the President?
SWERDLICK: No,not anytime soon.But I think what Congressman Amash saw here was two opportunities.One,it's possible - I don't know this.But it's possible as Siraj said, that this is a signpost on the way to Amash running for President as a libertarian.
It's also possible that Amash looked at history and said there's a job opening here to be the Barry Goldwater of this situation.Recall that in 1974 it was Goldwater and a few other Congressmen and members of the Senate who basically said to President Nixon, we can't defend you anymore, and Nixon resigned a few days later.
We are way far away from President Trump considering resigning or there being impeachment proceedings. President Trump could win the 2020 election.But I do think that Amash is saying here this is a time for choosing and I want to be on this side of the issue.
CABRERA: We're going to talk about the parallels with Nixon here coming up later this hour.But Siraj, it's clear Amash took his time reading through this Mueller report, but is it too late to come out with something like this? I mean it's been weeks?
HASHMI: Yes, I mean the thing is that Amash did have a time and place to speak out on this and of course the timing of this is not really suspect. I mean it sounds like he really read the report here - the redacted report.
The truth of the matter is, though, that Amash also sits on the Subcommittee on National Security in the House and there's an ongoing investigation by Barrinto where the start of the Trump Russian investigation started.
And one of Amash is pet issues is actually spying on Americans and one of the principal complaints about this investigation that Barr isleading is spying on Americans,specifically the Trump campaign.
So it's possible - and I'm just saying it's possible that Amash may have known something happened and did not speak up about it.It's possible he's covering his own behind in all of this.
CABRERA: Freshman Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib just tweeted about this writing,"Justin Amash come find me in 1628 Longworth. I've got an impeachment investigation resolution you're going to want to co- sponsor",David, your reaction to that.
SWERDLICK: Well,again, I think this is going to give Democrats some fresh ammunition to at least question their colleagues across the aisle and say essentially,"Look, there's a Republican out here saying that impeachable offenses were committed". I don't think they're going to expect other Republicans to follow suit, but they're going to be able to press them on this point.
And I think you're going to have some of the President's closest defenders, let's say, Senator Lindsey Graham, who has basically carried a lot of water for the President in recent weeks and months now facing questions among of his Senate and House colleagues about why he has a position where he is staked out versus someone like Amash who's also a Republican,saying in words that are clearer than many, many Democrats that impeachable offenses were committed whether or not an impeachment inquiry actually ever takes place.
[19:10:00] CABRERA: OK. David Swerdlick, Siraj Hashmi, thank you gentlemen. I appreciate--
HASHMI: Thank you.
SWERDLICK: Thanks Ana.
CABRERA: --your thoughts this evening. Now that a GOP Congressman has called for president Trump's impeachment will we hear from other Republicans who feel the same way?The Former Director of Richard Nixon's Presidential Library joins us next, we'll talk about parallels between then and now.You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
CABRERA: Back to our breaking news. Congressman Justin Amash is now the first sitting Republican in Congress to call for President Trump's impeachment.In a series of tweets he not only accuses the President of breaking the law, but he calls out his fellow Republican colleagues.
He writes, in part,"Here are my principal conclusions, Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller's report.2, President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.3, partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances.4, few members of Congress have read the report".
I want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst,Paul Callan and CNN Presidential Historian and Former Director of the Nixon Presidential Library Tim Naftali.So Tim for impeachment to happen, we know it has to be the will of both parties, right?
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes.
CABRERA: There was a moment for Nixon of course when the Republican dam broke, do you see this happening here.
[19:15:00] NAFTALI: Yes,well it took a while for the Republican dam to break.But what you saw were Republicans asking the President to consider resigning that happened early in 1974.The President did not resign is at that point, and so the process had to build some more.
One of the things that that that was so troubling for President Nixon was that when the Republicans started coming out against him, it wasn't singleton Republican, it wasn't one Republican, it was group of Republicans.They sought cover by moving together. That's why at the moment one can't say it's a movement.
Congressman Amash, it's - what he's doing is extremely significant because he's saying things that Democrats haven't been saying.
CABRERA: Yes, he's taking it further.
NAFTALI: But unless we hear from another Republican and we won't - we may, but unless we hear from another Republican soon, that's not the beginning of a move in any direction toward impeachment.
But what it might be is the beginning of Republicans perhaps taking a different view of hearings on Capitol Hill.Right now the Republican Party is basically supporting the President as he Stonewall's any public discussion of the Mueller inquiries findings.
Amash, if he's followed by other libertarians like him that might be an opening for real discussions in Congress. Right now it's only the Democrats pushing for them.
CABRERA: Paul, he says most lawmakers haven't even read the full report, is that alarming to you?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, that's really shocking to me, because it is such a detailed report and there's so much information there that if you believed the impeachment was the - it was warranted, it's something you would have to read.And for them not to read it, it's really disgraceful.
CABRERA: He points out that the Constitution does not define high crimes and misdemeanors.But he says the context implies conduct that violates the public trust.Do you agree with the Congressman?
CALLAN: Well,I think he makes a good point.And I think what he's getting to and the thing that really could cause trouble for the President is the concept of abuse of power.Now in impeachments in the past there have been charges of not only obstruction of justice, but abuse of power.
And one way you abuse power is by completely defying the Congress when it issues subpoenas in the quest for a legitimate legislative purpose, and he's done this in a way that no other President has ever done it.
He's just said we're not responding to any subpoenas for information and that threatens the balance of power among the branches of government and I think will cause the President a lot of problems if he continues with this strategy.
CABRERA: Tim, as we know Nixon didn't play by the rules.It appears this President isn't by the rules when it comes to the stonewalling of everything with Congress, and it didn't work out so well for Nixon.
NAFTALI: Well,in Nixon's case he tried to pretend he wasn't stonewalling.One of the differences between the two cases - there are a number of them, but this is really important, is that Nixon pretended to be cooperating. And members of Congress - and we know this from data opened later, members of Congress were telling the President please cooperate.It's important for our base that you appear to be cooperating.
What's different in 2019 is the Republican Party doesn't believe it's going to pay any price at all if the President stonewalls on the questions a lot of people are asking about the Mueller investigation.
If Amash's concerns lead to concerns from other libertarians, these are people who are deeply concerned about Imperial presidencies, if that happens maybe, we'll see it bipartisan push for some real testimony on Capitol Hill.
CABRERA: Paul, if Amash does end up lighting a fire under both Republicans and Democrats, what would happen if the House were to move forward with impeachment proceedings?What does that look like?
CALLAN: Well,I think it would look like a vote in favor of impeaching the President.And then we would shift to the trial in the Senate, and that's where the real battle would be.Would there be enough votes to impeach.
I also think the President is counting heavily on his alliance with the Supreme Court, because there are five conservative justices on the Supreme Court, and I think he makes a mistake doing that.Because when he tries to upset the balance of power between the various branches of government, the Supreme Court is looking at their role in government also, and they require cooperation of the President in handing down their cases.
So you could wind up having an alliance between the Supreme Court and the Congress against the President who will not cooperate with anybody and that spells impeachment. I see that as the primary danger area for the President.
CABRERA: All right.Gentlemen good to have you both with us, and thank you so much for that perspective and expertise.
All right. Joe Biden makes his pitch.He is the indisputable frontrunner far and away from the rest of the crowded Democratic pack in the polls.And Biden says his number one priority is not policy, but to elect a certain sum or eject a certain someone from the White House,that's next.
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: From coast to coast 2020 Democratic hopefuls have been spending the day on the campaign trail, working to get their message out to the masses.
10 of the 23 presidential candidates holding events, most notably perhaps, frontrunner and former Vice President Joe Biden, he held his official campaign launchthis afternoon with a big rally in Philadelphia where he made his strategy clear, bring unity back to America.But that doesn't mean he plans to go easy on the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are we a nation that believes there's a moral equivalence between white supremacists, Neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, and those with the courage to stand against them?
No, we don't, but Trump does. Trump said there's a moral equivalence. Are we a nation that believes ripping children from the arms of their parents at the border? No, we don't, but Trump does. Are we a nation that embraces dictators and tyrants like Putin and Kim Jong-Un?
BIDEN: No, we don't, but Trump does. Look, every day we're reminded, in this election about we have to remember who we are, what we stand for, what we believe. Every day, we're reminded, there's nothing guaranteed about our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Biden is hoping to turn his birth state of Pennsylvania blue. It's such a priority he has picked Philadelphia as home base for his campaign.So who is most likely to clinch the Democratic nomination?According to CNN Politics Senior Writer and Analyst Harry Enten,all you have to do is look into the past. Harry history suggests who as the Democratic nominee?
[19:25:00] HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER &ANALYST: I mean the most likely nominee at this point is Joe Biden because look it's not just that he's leading in the national polls, look at the state polls, look at the early states, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, he holds double-digit leads in all of those states and I went back in time.
CABRERA: Pennsylvania too?
ENTEN: Pennsylvania,he is leading by double digits there, up to 39 percent I believe in a poll this week.If you look at the early states, though, and you go all the way back since 1980 and you look at candidates who are leading in all the early states at this point in the campaign, eight of nine have won their party's nominations.
Now,obviously, this is a new year, things can shift, but people in Joe Biden's position normally win their party's nominations.
CABRERA: Well,you have a new piece coming out tomorrow morning about the major differences between senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, particularly their support, what can you tell us?
ENTEN: Yes, I mean look, I think a lot of people say, OK, Bernie Sanders, he's on the Left part of the Democratic Party; Elizabeth Warren, she's on the Left part of the Democratic Party.And it is true that they're both getting most of their support from people who self- described themselves as very liberal.
But then dig deeper, look at where Elizabeth Warren is also getting her most support from, she's getting it from college-educated whites.Lookat Bernie Sanders, where's he getting it from?Non college educated whites.So that's one difference.
Another key difference is that Elizabeth Warren supporters actually like the job that Democrats are doing in Congress. Bernie Sanders supporters don't.They want to throw the entire baby out with the bathwater.While Elizabeth Warren supporters tend to be much more hardened Democrats who actually like the people who are in charge right now.
CABRERA: Let's talk about the newest Democratic 2020 candidate--
ENTEN: Oh, boy.
CABRERA: He is heading to the ring, New York City Mayor,Bill de Blasio.He is, yes, the now 23rd Democrat eyeing the Oval Office.How's the math looking for him?
ENTEN: You know sometimes I look at these polls and I go I know why these candidates are getting in. I look at the polls of Bill de Blasio, I just don't even know man. I mean, oh my goodness gracious--
CABRERA: Is that bad?
ENTEN: It's that bad. In York City - Democrats in New York City over 70% say they don't want him to run. New York statewide Democrats,he has net negative favorability rating among Democrats - among Democrats. Iowa, New Hampshire, nationally, his best polls are nationally whereas averaging 1%, but Iowa, New Hampshire he's averaging zero - count him, 0% with net negative favorabilities in all of those places.
I mean, look Bill de Blasio--
CABRERA: But as Mayor he has passed some of the progressive agenda items in the City of New York that maybe the Democrats are saying they're touting.
ENTEN: That's absolutely true.But the fact of the matter is, if you look at where the Democrats are running this year, the vast majority are running to the Left. There are so many progressive options.Bill de Blasio coming in at this point to me, look, we're still very early, but it just doesn't look like there's a lot of room right now for what he's trying to sell.
CABRERA: All right, Harry Enten, we know you're going to follow it day-by-day, we're going to--
ENTEN: I am following it day-by-day, hour-by-hour, minute-by-minute, second-by-second.
CABRERA: OK. Tune in everybody Harry's got rights coming out like this. All right, thank you,Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
CABRERA: Tensions on the rise between U.S. and Iran.That country's foreign minister gets candid about mixed signals coming from Washington. He says American leaders don't know what to think, details next.
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Iran's Foreign Minister is declaring there will be no war with the U.S. Foreign minister Javad Zarif added that no one else is under the illusion of being able to fight Iran, this coming amid heightened tensions between the U.S. and Iran.
Plus we're getting a new warning now from the Federal Aviation Administration for commercial airliners flying over the Persian Gulf.Now the FAA says those flights are facing "Possible risk of miscalculation or misidentification by the Iranian military".
But a report in The Wall Street Journal is revealing that behind all the bluster of war, rising tensions and military deployments may be one simple thing, a misunderstanding.A report citing U.S. intelligence says Iran believed the U.S. was preparing to attack and it then took measures to prepare for a counter-attack.
So the past two weeks have now seen moves by both countries leading to growing concern that a potential military confrontation with Iran may be coming.First Israel's Intelligence Agency reportedly warned the U.S. of threats against American assets in the Middle East.
That led to the deployment of the USS Abraham Lincoln Strike Group to that region, a patriot missile battery and a deployment of four B-52 bombers. And this week fighter jets we flew so called deterrence sorties in the region.
Now the State Department ordered all non-emergency staff at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad and the U.S. Consulate in Erbil to leave Iraq after oil tankers were attacked in the Strait of Hormuz.
Iran denies any involvement there.Then there was this New York Times report that the Pentagon had devised a military plan that included the deployment of 120,000 troops in the event of an Iranian attack. President Trump had this to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Would I do that?Absolutely. But we have not planned for that.Hopefully,we're not going to have to plan for that.And if we did that, would send a hell of a lot more troops than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Congress also weighing in here, Senator Tom Cotton a Republican from Arkansas and a Member of the Armed Services Committee when asked what a possible war with Iran would looklike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET HOOVER,HOST, FIRING LINE:Could we win a war with Iran?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Yes. HOOVER: That didn't take you a second?
COTTON: Two strikes: the first strike and a last strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: That's a bit unprecedented.On Thursday President Trump met with the President of Switzerland in an effort to establish a channel through which the U.S. could speak to Iran.
Trump shared with the Swiss a phone number that Iran's leaders could call him to start talking.But Iran has shown no willingness yet to do so.In fact, Iran's supreme leader saying this week that negotiations would be like, "poison".
However,CNN is learning tonight recent intelligence shows some Iranian boats that the U.S. claims were carrying missiles have returned to port and it appears crews unloaded some of the missiles.
This is according to U.S. officials familiar with the recent intelligence.The source is telling CNN it's unclear whether the missiles have been put into storage to keep them hidden from the U.S. or to give a signal of de-escalation.
I want to bring in CNN Military &Diplomatic Analyst,retired Rear Admiral John Kirby,Former Spokesman for the Pentagon and State Department; also CNN Senior Diplomatic Correspondent,Michelle Kosinski.
[19:35:00] Admiral Kirby to you first.What do you make of this new development some Iranian boats returning to port, unloading missiles, could this be Iran's way of de-escalating?
REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY &DIPLOMATIC ANALYST:It's a positive sign, Ana, no doubt about that.But I don't think that they have enough information now to build a trend analysis to say that the threat has totally diminished.
And matter of fact, the Pentagon officials I talked to, tell me that there is still very much alert, still very vigilant.So I've not seen a diminution of other threats in the region, potentially in Iraq and elsewhere.
And even the maritime threat,OK, these boats brought these missiles back, but there's still a significant maritime threat.You in your introduction talked about the attack on the tankers, so there's still I think genuine concern in the intelligence environment for whatever Iran could do in the future and to keep the force presence in the force posture up.
CABRERA: So Michelle does this new reporting, as far as what you're hearing change how the U.S. moves forward here?President Trump we know is not one to back down.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: I feel like that's already been happening.At the same time that you have the U.S. increasing its posture and it's preparedness and making a big show of it.
You have the President talking about still wanting to talk to Iran and making sure that that message got out there, and it was only once the press started reporting about his dissatisfaction with members of his team being too hawkish or the mixed messages being confusing that he got angry and said all of that was BS.
So it's possible that now he'll harden up his language and the rhetoric that he tends to use again.But we still have a lot of unanswered questions here, remember.We have those threats from Iran its militias in Iraq and Syria that the U.S. administration was calling imminent only days ago.
Were those threats in response to what the U.S. was doing or were those completely separate and based on what exactly we don't know?We have the actual attacks that happened to those tankers off the coast of the UAE, where did that come from?And was Iran behind that?There are other governments that believe Iran was and at a high level. So once it comes out what exactly those were?
And remember, there were also attacks on a Saudi pipeline days ago.There's going to have to be some kind of response, not just from the U.S. but from allies who are affected by those actual attacks.And we're just going to have to wait and see what comes out of the evidence as part of the investigation now, and what if any, response allies are going to craft to those.
CABRERA: Admiral Kirby as we look at the bigger picture here, we have Trump battling multiple fronts on the global stage, missile launches from North Korea, trade talks stalled with China, uncertainty with Venezuela, and then these rising tensions between the U.S. and Iran. What do you make of that?
KIRBY: I think the big message for the rest of the world is that again this administration doesn't have a cohesive, concentrated, easily articulated foreign policy or even doctrine with which they approach sort of their relations with the rest of the world - very chaotic.
President was talking about being proud that were unpredictable, and the Iranians don't know what to think.Well,unpredictability is fine in a military conflict, but what it is, it's not unpredictability, it's chaos inside the administration in terms of how they plan.
And so it makes it very hard for our allies and our partners to also plan along with us and to trust what we're telling them, because we're going to need them.With each of those crises that you mentioned, each single one of them, we're going to need friends and partners and it makes - we're making it very hard for them to come on our side.
CABRERA: Michelle is chaos part of Trump's comfort zone on the global stage as he is simply more comfortable picking these sandbox fights on the international stage versus maybe working toward consensus of any kind?
KOSINSKI: Yes,well, I don't think he wants chaos, because whenever the press or others analysts, even sometimes people in his own party, pointed out he gets angry and says,"No,no, no, it's completely organized, everything's working great".
But he definitely wants to be the disrupter, the person who's going to do things so differently from past administrations, especially from the Obama administration, and he really seems to relish saying things at times that nobody else would say.
Like it came out that he was asking behind the scenes about possibly leaving NATO or he says out in public that Russia should be part of the G8 again, almost in the same breath that he criticizes President Obama for not being tough enough on Russia.
So he says these things and seems to like that he is shocking the world by speaking these ideas out loud.But his critics would say, as Admiral Kirby was mentioning, that there's just not enough cohesion in his strategy.
That he seems to rely too much on rhetoric and rely on relationships with world leaders that he thinks are great, but it's just not working out with any kind of fix in the end that that he hoped would happen.
[19:40:00] KIRBY: And if I could add to that, because I think Michelle is exactly right.There's also now no cohesion inside the administration. Pompeo and Bolton are much more hawkish on Iran than even the President.I don't think the President really wants regime change. I think he just wants a deal - a new deal he's not going to get it.
But he wants a new deal with Iran.But Pompeo and Bolton really are looking for regime change, and they have no plan on how to do that.And there's certainly no guarantee, and I think I would say a great risk that whatever regime would come after the Rouhani government, should there be a change, it's not going to be one that's more friendly to the West.
CABRERA: All right Admiral John Kirby, Michelle Kosinski, thank you both.
KIRBY: Thank you.
CABRERA: Coming up how the U.S. trade war with China is costing one family their livelihood and costing President Trump crucial votes in the heartland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR &CORRESPONDENT: You voted for this President.
ROBERT EWOLDT, IOWA FARMER: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA:Tonight,the trade war President Trump ignited with China is putting American farmers in a tough spot.Some of them are losing thousands of dollars a day to new tariffs. CNN's Martin Savidge is in Iowa.
[19:45:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE(voice-over): Robert Ewoldt readies for another day of battle.An Iowa farmer, he's on the front line of America's trade war with China.A war President Trump says, he's winning.But Ewoldtsays he's losing.
China has stopped buying his soybeans, cutting his income by half.He still has a third of last year's crop in storage.And this season it will likely cost him more to grow his soybeans than he can sell them for.
EWOLDT: This is survival at this point, I mean for a lot of operations, it is a survival thing.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Things are so bad. He's taken a second job.He drives a truck all night and farms by day.
SAVIDGE: That's what's allowing you to survive?
EWOLDT: That's what's keeping this farm going.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Ewoldt, isn't alone.Across the Midwest farm incomes are down, and bankruptcies are up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Might be the only PL (ph).
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Every morning in thousands of farm towns like this one farmers gather for coffee and to commiserate.
It's not just tariffs. Cross the Midwest and Southeast, farmers are also reeling from disaster, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, even fires. It's been raining so much in Iowa,farmers are nearly a month late getting into fields. And every day they delay, costs them more money.
SAVIDGE: How far behind are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, there is - there is almost nothing planted out here.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): To try and help,Democrats in the house joined by 34 Republicans voted for a $19 billion disaster relief package, some went to help farmers, but President trump opposed the plan, tweeting."House Republicans should not vote for the bad Democrat disaster supplemental Bill".
Now that relief is bogged down in the Republican controlled Senate over how much assistance to give hurricane devastated Puerto Rico. And so back in Republican voting farm districts there is a growing bumper crop of frustration, particularly with the President who brags about his negotiating skills.
GREG BEAMAN, IOWA FARMER: My uneducated guess is that he better hurry up and start producing a little bit, because this negotiation that I'm seeing so far has not panned out.
SAVIDGE: You voted for this president.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Larry Engler adds up the money he expects to lose this year.
LARRY ENGLER, IOWA FARMER: Between me and my daughter, together probably 100,000 and 1500,00.
SAVIDGE: Did you vote for trump?
ENGLER: I did. I'll never vote for him again.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Martin Savidge, CNN.Davenport Iowa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Spinning as meditation, music as therapy. Tonight on a brand- new Chasing Life, Dr. Sanjay Gupta heads to Turkey, a country where science and mysticism coexist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN HOST CHASING LIFE (voice-over): Before I arrived here, this patient under way open-heart surgery and doctors Sunmaze (ph) and John overseeing his recovery.The aftermath is extremely painful, and they're monitoring his vital signs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:This patient has blood pressure and too much heart rate. He's in agony.
GUPTA(voice-over): Like cardiac patients in the States, this man is given powerful narcotics to numb the pain. But his doctors know they can create dependency,and aren't always enough to ease the suffering. So they're trying something I've never seen before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep an eye on him in a few minutes.
GUPTA: OK. I would like to see it. OK.
GUPTA (voice-over): Music therapy has very old roots here in Turkey. Ancient Ottomans believed they could cure disease and restore balance between mind and body using the unique complex combinations of notes found in Sufi music. And it's extraordinary to see this seemingly sedated man instinctively respond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The music gives him message, everything is in good order. You are in peace, no pain.
GUPTA: I feel like I should applaud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA:The host of "Chasing Life" Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Sanjay, many people still practice more spiritual forms of healing. Was that an example of this and what else did you experience?
GUPTA: Yes, that was definitely an example. Keep in mind, where we were was a big hospital, intensive care unit. The people there that were performing the music, they were the heart surgeons that just did the open heart surgeon on him.
So it's not - this has become quite mainstream in turkey and it's this notion with regard to the music, in particular, that in order to best heal the body you have to heal the mind. And so they've doing this. They play music in the recovery room. They've written papers about it.
So they're taking these techniques, validating them scientifically and introducing them to the world.
CABRERA: So it sounds like western medicine and sort of more homeopathic approaches are coming together in some of their methods there. As a neurosurgeon, I know you've expressed some skepticism about spiritual healing practices.Did anything in turkey change your mind?
GUPTA: Healthy skepticism, right? I mean, I think, with these things, there's no question that there are techniques around the world that we don't know enough about that work, but have good data and good evidence behind them and that's what I wanted to find.
And the music therapy one is a good example, because this is a country that is one of the largest growers of opium in the world for pain and they export almost all of it. So their approach to pain is very - not using medications as much as possible. So things like the music therapy, is a form of spiritual healing, I guess, in a way it is.
But, I think, it's also a way of saying, "Hey,look, there's other countries where people have pain, they've had operations, trauma, they have chronic disease.How are they treating pain? How effective is it really?" And you saw - I mean, you saw with your own eyes how that patient responded.
[19:55:00] CABRERA: Yes, so positively. You did pay a visit to Turkey's poppy fields and the manufacturing plants where such a largeportion of the world's opioid drugs are made. And I'm curious, does Turkey have the same drug epidemic that we have here in the U.S.?
GUPTA: They don't. But I will tell you, Ana, that in the past, they did. I mean, the opium dens and sort of the impact of the more rampant opioid use that something that happened especially in some of the bigger cities in Turkey.
And I think as a result of that, there was this complete change where they said, hey, you know what, we don't want this in our country. We're going to - they continue to grow it, because it is a crop that they can sell. But they - again, they export the vast majority of it to - most of it frankly to the United States.But it evolved from a problem into a solution for them.
CABRERA: Quickly, if you will, what's the one take away you want everybody to get tonight?
GUPTA: Well, I think with regard to Turkey, particularly, this is a country where East meets West, where you see these traditional techniques and scientific techniques merge.And this idea as you watch, you do have to heal the mind in order to best heal the body.What does that mean? You'll see it for yourself.
And by the way Ana, it's our last show tonight as well.
CABRERA: Oh, darn. I'm disappointed to hear it's ending.
GUPTA: I'll miss these discussions as well.
CABRERA: Me too. Congratulations on the really interesting series Sanjay, thank you.
GUPTA: Yes, Ana, thank you. Be sure to tune in, new episode of "Chasing Life with Sanjay Gupta" airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern here on CNN. Now that's it for me tonight. "Champions for Change",starts right after a quick break.