Return to Transcripts main page
CUOMO PRIME TIME
IRS Memo Contradicts Admin Policy on Trump Taxes, Chris Cuomo Talks With Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX); Democrats Face Division Over Impeaching Trump; Chris Cuomo Debates With Angela Rye and Karen Finney; Joe Biden Far Ahead of Opponents in New Quinnipiac Poll; New Coke Returns in Honors of Netflix's "Strange Things"; Only The Best: Trump Doesn't Have Them, But He Needs Them. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 21, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --for Kobach's hopes of becoming immigrations are, they look dim tonight. And that private jet he wanted gassed up for 2 a.m. trip to an offshore Carl's Jr. it says non-existent as his staff of seven or for that matter any evidence of massive voter fraud on the Ridiculist.
And the news continues. Right now I want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME". Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Wait let me see him, move the glasses. Take glasses?
COOPER: Oh, the baby blues, you want them?
CUOMO: Holy moly, and there's a signature look, doesn't get any better than that. I agree. Kay-Kay (ph) ain't no AC. I'll talk to you later. Thank you, Anderson.
I'm Chris Cuomo, and welcome to PRIME TIME. New fuel for the case of abuse of power against the President - breaking news, a secret IRS memo contradicts the Secretary of the Treasury on whether or not the President has to hand over his tax returns.
Another abuse of power. The question is will it sway Democrats that they need to do more than they are now. Tomorrow's meeting of the democratic minds could be a tipping point. We have a player in the mix here tonight she's making a move and she's going to tell you about it here first. Her judiciary panel served more subpoenas today this time to Hope Hicks.
And another crucial witness to the President's actions, the note-taker who may have written it all down, significance, answers from Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. And latest poll is out and the central focus is on the most centrist candidate Joe Biden. Is there a message in the numbers? We have a former frontrunner with some keen advice ahead. What do you say? Let's get after it.
So the Treasurer Secretary said Congress could not have the President's taxes, because - their legal opinion was that Congress lacked a legit oversight reason. Why slowly? Because you have to remember that language it is not from the draft memo that came from the IRS directly to the Treasury.
That one contradicts Steve Mnuchin's justification for handing them over. 10-page memo says this. "The law does not allow the Secretary to exercise discretion in disclosing the information, provided the statutory conditions are met" and there are no real conditions in this statute.
Take a look. So what does this mean to a Democrat in a position of power about what needs to happen next. Let's bring in Judiciary Committee Member Sheila Jackson Lee. Congresswoman, thank you for joining us on PRIMETIME.
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): My pleasure to be with you.
CUOMO: Another night, another new piece of information that shows a distinction between what we're seeing from the administration and what experts had told the administration to put out. This time it's the letter or the memo dictating why the IRS would or would not comply with Congress's request for the President's taxes.
And Treasury Secretary put it on you, he said this is about overreach, not oversight and that's why you can't have it. We have to litigate. The draft memo says something different. It says we must comply unless the President exercises Executive Privilege, which he did not. Is that a meaningful distinction to you?
JACKSON LEE: You see the divide between the IRS Commissioner just plain facts on a paper versus a narrative given by the Secretary of the Treasury. We knew we were not overreaching. There is no intent to overreach. We have responsibilities of investigation.
And the Ways and Means Committee is operating under a very old but specific law that the Chairman can request the tax returns of the President of the United States of America. I think the IRS just simply said, "We needed to abide by the law unless there was some exception, which is executive privilege, which they didn't find had been asked for or had been requested or that was in play".
I know this is a sensitive issue, the President's tax returns. But it's getting to be the story of the administration and so it seems to have little weight, because it is a denial on every offer or request that the Congress is making.
CUOMO: Well, he believes that he could win. He believes he can win with this strategy of just pushing back on you. That he'll get to the election. He'll win and it will be over. The question is what should your party and what should your colleagues in the Congress do now? You have an announcement to make what is it?
JACKSON LEE: Tomorrow will introduce a Resolution of Investigation. I think this is an important difference about where people think we are.
A Resolution of Investigation allows the House of Representatives to vote on the resolution to direct the Judiciary Committee to investigate and to exercise its authority ultimately, if it so decides as the agent of the House of Representatives, to move forward on Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5, which obviously is a determination of misconduct by the President United States.
CUOMO: How does that change the state of play from now congresswoman?
[21:05:00] JACKSON LEE: It allows us to be able to say to Director Mueller to Mr. McGahn and really to General Barr, the House of Representative has directed you to act. It really makes a different story altogether and it helps us get the facts.
It doesn't preclude the ultimate act which may be right if the Committee exercises the authority on articles of impeachment. But then of course, that is a decision of the whole House of Representative, which is what this vote will be, the whole House will then vote - will vote to investigate.
CUOMO: But the reality is, you've got a lot of voices, you've got a vocal minority within your party that's saying you guys are weak and this is a time to be strong. Is this step enough to satisfy?
JACKSON LEE: The Resolution of Investigation allows us to educate before we activate. It allows us to present hearings in a more fuller manner. It says that the House of Representative directed the Judiciary Committee to exercise its authority of investigations, but then ultimately to exercise that authority under Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5.
No it is not a half step. It is a step that moves us forward. And frankly again, it provides the educational platform for the people of the United States having been through impeachment before, I realize - and the Speaker has said often, and people know, it's a political process.
Not that it's politics, but it's a political process when the American people have said, "We want to change this order. We don't want this misconduct".
CUOMO: Two more quick things on the news, Hope Hicks, Annie Donaldson are being brought in. Everybody knows who Hope Hicks is. She was a Spokesperson for the President. Annie Donaldson was the Chief of Staff from McGahn. She supposedly took notes about interactions with the President.
What do you think you're going to get out of Hope Hicks that justifies the drama that's going to come with the request?
JACKSON LEE: I think these two witnesses and their notes will provide enhanced, if you will, understanding of where director of Mueller was going and where he wanted the Congress to go. And that is to finish this investigation to determine if there was misconduct, to move to the next level, as I indicated, under the Constitution or decide not.
These individuals will contribute to that understanding. McGahn's notes - and of course, there may be barriers, obstacles placed in front of their presentation. We do think that that some of the witnesses - these two in particular, may be open to further conversation on the question of getting the facts to the Congress, to the Judiciary Committee and to the American people. We want to give them the chance to do that and we want to give the Congress a chance to really get to the facts. Director Mueller left us a roadmap. It would be shameful if we did not proceed on that roadmap in the spirit of the Constitution and the rule of law.
CUOMO: One more quick thing. Walk and chew gum everybody keeps saying it. There's something that makes me question that, and that is what's happening on the border with these kids dying. I'm not blaming CBP, I'm not blaming the people who are keeping us safe and protecting the border, but they're dying because they're overwhelmed, they don't have the resources, and Congress is doing nothing.
The President gets his share of blame. He's got the emergency declaration. You can argue whether or not he should have it. But it would help them get some emergency relief right now, he's not using it.
But similarly, on the Democrat side of the ball, in 2014 everybody ran down to the border. When this first happened at the beginning of this administration everybody ran down. You got five kids dead now and I'm not hearing anything about the Democrats about doing anything right now to help it stop. Why, if you can walk and chew gum?
JACKSON LEE: Well first of all let me thank you Chris for the passion that I've seen night after night. I was down on the board in 2014, but I've been down to the border several times both through 2018 and both in 2019.
Recently we had a hearing on this dastardly act of separating children from their families. And yes, we really engaged with the Department of Homeland Security on this question of children dying. I'm very saddened to hear it because we worked hard to get medical facilities down there, albeit they were not the best. The Coast Guard came down with doctors--
CUOMO: They say you shortchanged them. They said you didn't make it a priority. The Congress didn't do what they needed to do for them.
JACKSON LEE: Well, let me just say this. I am outraged. We do have a job to do with respect to funding. I have talked to CBP. I'm not blaming them either. I've been in the facilities. This has to stop. And what I would say to you have an outraged member looking to find opportunities for funding, which should have had and better resources for CBP.
I think this little one either died in the hospital or enroute to the hospital if I'm not mistaken, but more importantly that child is not alive. You have my commitment, Chris - I'm outraged. There are many things that Congress is focusing on. This should be a priority, so I thank you for the challenge. We have to do something.
CUOMO: Congresswoman, I appreciate you coming on the show, especially on this last question. Being down there in Texas you're always welcome here to argue what matters in your opinion to the American people and thank you.
JACKSON LEE: Thank you so much for having me.
[21:10:00] CUOMO: Look, there is no excuse to have kids dying on our watch, everyone knows it and yet no one is doing anything about it. That will not be ignored on this show. However, the focus tonight for these lawmakers is impeachment on the Democratic side. And to be fair, it's not an easy call.
So let's go through the ifs, thens and the plus minuses of this decision. We'll do it in readily digestible form, we'll do that next. And then once we have the factors, let's have a great debate about the best path with two women who exemplify the Democratic division.
CUOMO: To be, or not to be, that is the question for Democrats on impeachment. Leadership says slow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I don't have to have a position. I'm waiting for my - first we want - as I said, we want to see what we can get respectfully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: But the vocal minority says let's go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Choosing to not impeach when there's an abundance of evidence could also be construed as politically motivated as well. And we can't be scared of elections. We need to uphold the rule of law--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right. So let's take you through the plus minuses. Impeachment has upsides. Like what? Well, potentially it could be the best way to get you the information you deserve, so that you can decide if there were an actionable abuse of power here by the President.
[21:15:00] Impeachment proceedings may also accelerate some of the legal battles that this President is throwing up all over the places challenges. The AG is already held in contempt, Don McGahn may be next. Let's see what happens with Hicks and Mueller.
But on the other hand Democrats just got a big decision against the President's tax prep people pretty quickly, which leads many Democrats to say this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Our process is working well and will not be disturbed. Let's just keep grinding it out. We'll win it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: The grind takes time even if Clyburn is right - win, when, in time for the election? No guarantee. And if they swing they have to deliver. All right take a look at these polls. 69 percent of Democrats say they want impeachment. But what they really want, they likely won't get, which is removal. So going through the effort and not delivering could cost them with this group and many beyond.
Takes us to the second poll, when you talk all Americans that, "please impeach" number drops to 37 percent. All right. So you see in a split. And that split is why you're hearing stuff like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): The President of the United States of America needs to be impeached.
REP. KATIE HILL (D-CA): We don't need impeachment at all to be able to move forward with the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right so you got exposure, you've got some legal advantage. Pluses minuses, you got a look at the political reality, because it's an unknown. All right? And there is a real risk of making the bully in this so far, this President, look like a victim if you overreach in the name of oversight like he keeps saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This never happened to any other President. They're trying to get a redo. They're trying to get what we used to call in school a deal - a "do-over."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That's what he used to call it in school, when he was at Fordham, before he went to Wharton, he called it a "do-over". But that's not what it is, it's a redo. It's a different standard. This is not about beyond a reasonable doubt. It's about beyond what the country wants in a President, gross abuse of power that disgusts enough of you to influence lawmakers.
Doesn't put this President behind bars and nothing will, but it could bar a second term, especially if people hear and see what key folks have to say. So where does that take us. Cautionary note about the upcoming elections, managing expectations, first example on that is the Mueller report.
Too many on the Left fueled to highest set of expectations for the outcome. President has been playing to advantage with no collusion, no obstruction. But here is the good news for Democrats. He also overplayed once again and lied once again. Here's what we know.
There is plenty of attempted collusion and actual wrongdoing that the country may well care about in that report. The best question - or the question is the best way to get the answer to you. However, that may not be about how, but about a who.
I suggest this, if you get Mr. Mueller on the stand, and he says what he found how he found it and why he explained it the way he did, the path forward from there will be clear. Now let's put it up for the political minds. Should Democrats take the risk or would they be playing right into the President's hand if they make an impeachment move, that's the great debate and its next.
[21:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madam Speaker, are you under increased pressure to impeach the President from your caucus?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you address the division within your caucus?
PELOSI: We don't have the division.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Listen, you ask Nancy Pelosi, would say no. If you're going to ask her about division, she's going to say reject the premise. She's a pro at this. But that said. The Speaker has the reins in hand for now. But tensions get higher as the President's tactics get lower and lower.
So is impeaching the strong move or strong and wrong? The start of tonight's great debate among two prominent Democrats Angela Rye and Karen Finney, great to have you both.
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Chris.
CUOMO: Hey Angela Rye, what's the move? People are all over the place. Had Sheila Jackson Lee on tonight, she says I'm going for an instrument of Investigation, have the whole House vote on it, that's the move. That'll send the message.
You've got other members of Congress who are veterans, saying no time to impeach. You've got a vocal minority, you've got the centrists, you've got the Speaker. Where are you people?
RYE: First of all, not you people tonight Chris, but--
CUOMO: Democrats, don't try to sidetrack please.
RYE: Not you people.
CUOMO: Don't try to sidetrack me. Go ahead, what's the right move.
RYE: Speaking of sidetrack, though, I feel like in a lot of ways folks really are. So if Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee was just on talking about a resolution of an investigation, I respect what she's doing. She's trying to move the ball down the field.
But frankly, it's redundant, Chris. A Resolution of Investigation gives the very same power to congressional committees to do to engage in oversight, to determine whether or not there was any wrongdoing to issue subpoenas. All of that they already have through powers of the Constitution.
So I understand it may give some of the moderates a little bit of cover, but it's redundant. They already have all of that authority. What is appealing to me and I think to some of the others is, particularly the voters who said, we want you all to control the house because we need somebody to serve as checks and balances to Donald Trump.
We want to make sure he doesn't get away with high crimes and misdemeanors - the buzzwords for impeachment. And so we would like for you to consider this thing called an impeachment inquiry, and that's all it is.
When you look at what had to pass the full House for Nixon and Clinton here is what it says. "To investigate fully and completely whether sufficient grounds exist for the House of Representatives to exercise its constitutional powers to impeach".
[21:25:00] That is it. We're talking about giving them the power they need if they were to go to the courts, which is where Donald Trump says he wants to legislate now - in the courts. The Supreme Court has said they give broad sweeping authority and there's a broadened scope for investigatory powers for Congress if there is an impeachment inquiry.
That is not the same when it's regular legislative proceedings. That is why Bill Barr and I Don McGahn, they have not had to show up.
CUOMO: All right.
RYE: This only gives them the teeth and the power they need to do this. I'm sorry, I don't mean to filibuster. But I want--
CUOMO: You are filibustering, but it's all right. It's all right. I know the tricks. I have you on because of the tricks. They are all good.
RYE: --of facts. I want people to know, be equipped, be empowered.
CUOMO: And you should and that's why I let you put it out there, because it's important for the audience and thank you.
But Karen, an analytical aspect of the information Angela just put out there is, once you go you're gone. Once you go down the road of impeachment you better deliver, because what those 67 percent of the people in your party really want who are saying they want impeachment is removal.
And if you can't remove, not only do you let them down, but you give the President a leg up, and he says they came after me and they lost. They couldn't get the king.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, here is I - so I think that we need to make the case. I think what you saw today, certainly with Don McGahn not showing up, was an increasing number of members across the spectrum in the Democratic Party moving down the field to say.
You know what, we're probably going to end up at impeachment - and I heard others say, I'm getting there, I think that's very important. Here's the problem. You've got to bring the public along. Think about Watergate.
Right, I did a little research on Watergate. At the beginning of the inquiry it was at 19 percent people thinking that impeachment. After you had - with Democrats in Congress making their case - people like Barbara Jordan making her case on floor of the House of Representatives.
CUOMO: In evidence of the felony.
FINNEY: You got to over 50 percent--
CUOMO: In evidence of the felony.
FINNEY: OK. But my point is you still have to make your case. You have to - and most Americans are not following this the way that we are. Most Americans are hearing bits and pieces. They don't actually understand the differences between the powers. So when the President--
And by the way, part of the problem is, I think Democrats kind of got caught flat-footed here when the Barr report - when the bar summary first came out, because he got to control the narrative coming out the gate.
FINNEY: And so now everything--
CUOMO: it got cross flatfooted when they allowed three of their Senators to vote for someone who they had to know was going to do this. That was the time for high dudgeon. Let me reframe it, though, because I hear I hear you both on this, we're broad. Let's get a little bit more from macro to micro here.
My consideration is this Angela. We seem to be hyper focused in the analysis on how to do this. Is the better route who do you think they should go all in on getting Mueller, because once Mr. Mueller testifies, the path forward will be clear.
Either the American people be like, "Oh, that's why he put it the way he put it. Oh, I need to know more. Or they're going to be like, "Ah, all right, that's what I thought. It just kind of was confused and mixed and political and whatever and it's over". Why not just focus on getting him and letting the rest take care of itself?
RYE: So Chris I'm so glad you asked. In killing the filibuster moment you killed this particular moment. If there is the broader scope of a impeachment inquiry, they're more likely to get Mueller. That is a broadcasted moment.
You just talked about this in this last segment or if everyone can hear for themselves what's in that 400 hundred page report that they're either too lazy or haven't had access or even the time to read. That is the time to do that.
The only way I believe Democrats are going to get this information, the people in control of the House is if there is an impeachment inquiry. I think Congressman Cummings said to Manu (ph) earlier, that he's not able to get subpoenas even responded to this. They're rebuffing all of this because they can until this goes to the Supreme Court.
The only way they're going to be able to get this is with an impeachment inquiry.
CUOMO: If at all.
RYE: Bury it, so they're just--
CUOMO: If at all. It's not automatic if they get that. But - Karen, you want to get it?
RYE: --but I'm saying there is case law.
CUOMO: Yes, I hear you. You're right, there is case law. There is precedent on that. Go ahead, Karen.
FINNEY: I think that's part of the point. Right, part of the point is Don McGahn didn't show up today. That's one data point. The court - they got the court decision today that says you got to turn over those financial records, that's another point.
And Angela I take your point, but part of what I'm suggesting is - again, you have to make the case. And by the way the more the White House stonewalls. The greater the case actually is to have to go to impeachment to your point, because you can say, "Look, we tried to get the information. They stonewalled. This is the only way Americans that we can actually get you the information".
My point is just you have to - having also lived through whitewater, by the way you've got to make the case and bring people along, because they're not following it the way we are. And you also, by the way, have to connect the case to the fact that to what you were talking about before, Chris, kids are dying on the border, why?
Because Republicans in Congress are too busy protecting this President instead of doing their job.
CUOMO: Democrats have done nothing and didn't give DHS what they asked for.
FINNEY: Well, I just respectfully disagree.
CUOMO: But it's true.
FINNEY: But I think you still have to connect it to--
CUOMO: They gave them half the money they asked for.
RYE: Can I just - before we--
[21:30:00] CUOMO: Bring it on. Those are the facts. One after another go ahead, Angela what do you have.
RYE: Before we do immigration, I just also want to point out that the White House Counsel sent a letter to Jerry Nadler on May 15th saying the White House wasn't going to comply. Like we have enough evidence, we have a redacted Mueller report that they refused to take out the redaction so people can really chew on that.
We have a letter from the White House Counsel saying they're not going to imply. White House will not be providing any documents or information associated--
CUOMO: Now you got to fight it out in the courts.
RYE: That's my whole point. But I'm saying that we have moment-after- moment, case-after-case no tax returns. They're not going to comply.
CUOMO: But if you do open the impeachment proceeding, even though you get the--
RYE: Impeachment inquiry.
CUOMO: The inquiry. Even though - as long as the word is in there, Angela, you're going - there's going to be a political cost. Karen last point to you.
FINNEY: OK. My other point is, you've also got to engage people outside of Washington. Our groups, and our organizations, we need to do a better job raising the temperature on this issue to give Democrats cover.
It's not just about putting pressure on Nancy Pelosi. It's about putting pressure on the Republicans who are shamefully protecting this President and making it easier for Democrats because more Americans have to understand why this matters.
So we've got more work to do, I think, in order to make this a more palatable decision. But I agree, we're going to end up there.
RYE: Well, very good, we agree on that.
CUOMO: Yes, I don't know. But I appreciate this. I know this much, my audience is better for hearing your guys opinions and what's behind them tonight. Angela, Karen, thank you both. I'll have you both back soon again. Appreciate it.
Now, look, here's another thing we now know, wait until you see these new numbers in this presidential poll about where the Democrats are moving and why? Beto O'Rourke, for example, he was shiny and new. Part of that was the media buffing him up like an apple, part of it was about how he handled things.
He went from shiny and new now to having to renew. Does he have the stuff to be President? Let's see how he handles tonight's CNN Presidential Town Hall just minutes away in the all-important Iowa.
Like I said, Howard Dean is here tonight to look at what his prospects are. And the wisdom that is in this brand-new poll that shows growing problems facing many of the big names in the democratic field and a consistent choice and rationale. Next.
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: We have brand new numbers on the Democratic nomination. And according to the Quinnipiac University, it is all about Joe Biden. Take a look at the numbers. Besting Bernie Sanders by 20 points. Bad news in there for the elusive Sanders and Booker and Kamala and Warren and also for Beto O'Rourke.
Now I didn't put Buttigieg in there, because he slipped a little bit. But remember from where he's coming from, he's still in sweet corn right now. He, though, Beto O'Rourke, had a lot of promise, look at his numbers now.
All right. Tonight, however, he's got a unique opportunity. He's going to be making his presidential case during a town hall with our Dana Bash right here on CNN, right after this 10p Eastern, so that's going to be a big moment.
Who better to give perspective on those numbers, and what they say about this moment in time when the Democrats have to figure out their best foot forward on impeachment, then the man who was once Democratic frontrunner in the 2004 race, Howard Dean, also headed up the party after that. Welcome back to PRIMETIME, sir.
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: Thanks Chris.
CUOMO: Good to have you.
DEAN: Nice to be on again.
CUOMO: Take on the numbers.
DEAN: No filibustering this time.
CUOMO: No, no, you're always good, you're always welcome. What's the story there?
DEAN: Too early, too early.
DEAN: Joe has got momentum. Because Joe's got momentum - he's got a 100% name recognition. We've got a long way to go. The voters have long history of wanting interesting new people. I wouldn't count any of these folks out.
In fact, I actually think it's likely and there's room for one or two people who were never in these polls to come forward at some point during the during the campaign probably after the debates.
CUOMO: Yes, fair point. And also when you were 20% with that big a field, there's almost nowhere for you to go but down, at least early on as other people start to resident--
DEAN: Well, that's what I thought. I mean, I thought that was going to happen to Joe, but he went up 10% instead of down 10%.
DEAN: So you got to give him credit where credit's due.
CUOMO: 100 percent, but other people aren't getting the at-bats yet and we'll see how we actually get into this.
DEAN: Right. That's right.
CUOMO: But timing - and as you taught me many years ago, a poll is only a snapshot in time. It only tells you something right now. It is suggestive not predictive. OK. So is it suggestive that, hey, if you want to decide what to do with this impeachment thing, look at Joe Biden, because that's a center-Left Democrat right there and that part of the party is not begging for impeachment.
DEAN: I think, we got a look at impeachment in a different way. You have to look at - it is a political matter, but you got to look at it as a legal matter. They need to get the evidence.
DEAN: I would much prefer a little more speed in Congress, but not speed towards impeachment, speed toward subpoenaing Mueller if he won't come, a speed towards getting Barr to testify--
CUOMO: But if the guy - if the President and his team just coax him all, Howard, what do you do?
DEAN: Well, you can't - I mean it's - I think it's - I don't think it's legal for him to block them all.
CUOMO: I agree, but it's going to take a long time. They just settled the case with Eric Holder two weeks ago, it takes time.
DEAN: Right. But accept that that is now precedent. So look I think this is complicated stuff. And I think Karen Finney was right. You've got to get this - set this up in the mind of the jury and the jury is the American people. We know the Republicans aren't going to cooperate.
We need to do the right thing. But in order to do the right thing, we have to bring the jury along with us. And as I say the jury is the American people. We have to convince them by having help Hicks come in and under oath testify about what's been going on.
I also think we ought to begin disbarment proceedings against the Barr and McGahn in front of the DC - in front of the DC Bar. I mean, Bill Clinton was disbarred for lying to Congress and Barr has already lied to Congress, McGahn hasn't showed up yet.
We've got to be much tougher and we've got to act quicker. But I'm not ready to go down the impeachment roll until we actually see evidence that the American people will see. This is the most corrupt President in history the United States of America, most people know that, even the people who support him believe that or many of them do and we've just got to make sure we've got them with us.
[21:40:00] CUOMO: There are two instructions in that. The one is, if you want them with you, don't be what you opposed. And two, you got to make sure that you have a clean call when you do make moves, for instance with Don McGahn, obviously, you got to wait for the guy to do something that's worthy of disbarment. Right now he's just listening to somebody who's got the privilege - arguably.
DEAN: Right, well I think you can try to get Barr disbarred now, because he it did lie to Congress.
CUOMO: Yes, you could try.
DEAN: McGahn, again I agree, we've got a ways to go down with - down the road with McGahn. And, look, he's working for one of the most reputable law firms in the country. That law firm - Jones Day is going to suffer. Would you like to go to a law firm where one of the senior partners is all mixed up in a mess like this with Donald Trump?
CUOMO: If he comes through it clean, I'd like having McGahn on my team, if this man is still President of the United States, and that's why a lot of law firms bring those names in.
DEAN: Yes, but he's got - you cannot stiff Congress. You've got to tell the truth and that is a in short supply in this White House and everybody who works for Donald Trump.
CUOMO: So Beto O'Rourke tonight town hall. Now I give him his best defense. The media was shining him up like an apple for teacher, and they have a tendency to do that early in a race, you remember that in your own race. The love doesn't last.
DEAN: I do.
CUOMO: The love doesn't last. What lesson would you impart to Beto about what you learned about, what took you where you were and what didn't keep you there?
DEAN: Look, I think what you - what Beto's got to do is, first of all the CNN town meetings have been great. And so he's just got to go out and do his best and show what - who he is to the American public and then his numbers will presumably go up.
People - I have to say, I don't frequently say wonderful things about the media. But I think the media has done a great job getting the candidates in front of the American people, more so than just doing the horserace articles, which is what they usually do.
They have these town meetings, have given the American people the opportunity to see some of these candidates that they really don't know much about, and that matters a lot.
CUOMO: Yes, I'll tell you what, I respect in this day and age, obviously it's not my call I'm happy to be involved when it want me to take up position. But they are not gangbusters for ratings, they are not gangbusters for residents, what they are is responsible.
CUOMO: And I respect--
DEAN: --and everybody is doing. Fox is doing them, MSNBC is doing them. I think we do the most, in my opinion, and we doing with people that maybe wouldn't get a voice ordinarily, but I think that's the service to the people and it's about time they get served more.
Howard Dean, appreciate your perspective as always. You're always welcome on my show sir.
DEAN: Thanks Chris.
CUOMO: Be well. All right America's biggest beverage blunder, what do you think it was? We all know, but it's ready for a comeback and that's something that no one saw coming. I was a 14-year-old gap- toothed kid rocking the capezios with the cavariccis and that's when New Coke came out.
And by the time I was 15 and gave up on growing a tail, because I had an italo-fro and it doesn't work, New Coke was gone, or so we thought. D. Lemon and I are going to break down the stranger reason, it's being served up again. Next.
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: New Coke it sucked. It was put out by Coca-Cola in 1985 and that's not just my opinion, people then had some mighty strong feelings about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care for it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like the old Coke better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It tastes gross.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: There you have it and the hairstyles, so why is it coming back? Blame Netflix and the coming season of "Stranger Things". Starting this Thursday, Coca-Cola is going to be bringing back a limited number of New Coke cans to celebrate the vintage drink.
Now we know how much of a flop this was. So let's bring in my man D. Lemon, not that I'm speaking of flops. But will the younger generation give this soda - will the younger generation give a Coke - New Coke a new chance. Do you have your bottles?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: I got him here. What was so bad about New Coke?
CUOMO: It was terrible. And why did you tell everybody my confirmation name was Richard? All right, let's start the new cock first New Coke first.
LEMON: OK. This is - so I'm - this is a taste test. You got to tell me these things.
CUOMO: Yes, New Coke.
LEMON: I remember this. You remember this?
CUOMO: The one that says "New".
LEMON: I remember when it - when this came out.
CUOMO: Oh, look him drinking it out of a cup.
LEMON: I got to have a little ice with my Coca-Cola, let's see.
CUOMO: Now Coke Classic, which had to be called that because of New Coke.
LEMON: Let's see. Did you just - like - are you a Sommelier?
CUOMO: Yes. I took one of those Oenology classes. That's wine though. I got to tell you something I taste like nothing when I drink Coke Classic. And I taste something a little saccharini when I drink the New Coke. But I think it's got like a stronger taste - New Coke.
LEMON: It's not - actually that - not that a big a difference. It's not that a big a difference, I'm sorry. Is it just a can or is it the formula?
CUOMO: No, it's the formula.
LEMON: Are you sure.
LEMON: I remember when this came out and people didn't like it. But here's the thing.
CUOMO: How old were you 20? LEMON: 1985, yes I was four.
CUOMO: So I was rocking capezios and cavariccis, do you remember either of those, they reach you in the--
LEMON: Z cavariccis, oh yes. Z cavaricci and you also - I also had some parachute pants.
LEMON: And then I had the - what was the jacket? What's the jacket? Members Only jacket. You remember Members Only jacket?
CUOMO: So I have one now. They came back a few years ago. I had the hypercolor shirt. Did you have that? When used to touch somebody, it leave a handprint.
CUOMO: Big deal at the skating rink.
LEMON: I shopped at Merry-Go-Round too.
CUOMO: Chess King (ph).
LEMON: Chess King, oh, my God.
CUOMO: Chess King was my joint. Save up for weeks for a keyboard tie.
LEMON: That was back then when Banana Republic actually sold Safari clothes. Remember that?
[21:50:00] CUOMO: Yes. That was like - that was in the outback. That was the real deal. Everything is khaki.
LEMON: Maybe the ice screwed it up, I don't know.
CUOMO: You just never had it without ruminant.
LEMON: No I - yes - no, this is not good without the ice. Yes, that's good.
CUOMO: Now you know what Mario beat me for $20 the other day at this my buddy's a new restaurant up where we lived that I'll take you to, it's called Rosie's, very cool place farm-to-table. And he says, "Hey, you should have this Mexican Coke pop, it's better".
LEMON: It is.
LEMON: He is right.
CUOMO: He said, "I'm telling you, it's better". I said, "What do you know about Coke?
LEMON: Its real sugar.
CUOMO: "He said you want to bet $20?" I said "Done". On the bottle they use cane sugar, not this use this kill you 50 different ways stuff - the corn high-fructose corn syrup.
LEMON: Yes, you can get that at - if you look - if you go to like a Target or sometimes a Wal-Mart or the Costco, you can get there the real - the Coke from Mexico which has--
CUOMO: No, I don't drink soda.
LEMON: I'm just kidding. I do. But I only do diet soda. I do Diet Coke and I do diet--
CUOMO: We do no soda in the house.
LEMON: Ginger ale.
CUOMO: But when I am on the road and I'm a little subdued, I'll have a Jarrito if it's available when I'm south of the border. Have you ever had a Jarrito soda? J-A-R-R-I-T-O? Very tasty.
LEMON: Yes, it's Jarrito.
CUOMO: Not in American.
LEMON: And you're old enough to remember Tab, I'm sure.
LEMON: It's actually nice to have a real Coke. I only - I usually do Diet Coke, because I just - I don't want the sugar.
CUOMO: I'm going to get you some of those Mexican ones with the cane sugar. They were tasty. I had them in my house. I got to jump. What you've got?
LEMON: Jamie Raskin is going to be on to talk about all this happening in Washington and the terrible performance of Ben Carson, we'll talk about that as well, coming up.
CUOMO: REO to Oreo.
LEMON: Oreo. I like my Oreos. Oh, wait a minute - R-E-O Speedwagon,
CUOMO: Strong. See you in a second. Candidate Trump promised you I will surround myself with only the best people - remember that? You heard what D. Lemon was talking about, the Housing Secretary, the genius Ben Carson confused about a crucial part of his mandate as the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
One-third of his asset sales fall into one category, he did not understand it today, and it means something - the argument next.
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: I believe in complete transparency says this President, no he doesn't. He says he has been the most open as an administration. He has been the least. And now the third in this trifecta of truth abuse, "I'm going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people. We want top-of-the-line professionals".
Literally I don't think you could point to one person in any major position that would get any kind of consensus that they were a great choice, let alone the best. The latest and perhaps saddest example of this fact, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): I also like you to get back to me if you don't mind to explain the disparity in REO rates - do you know what an REO is?
BEN CARSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: An Oreo?
PORTER: R - no, not an Oreo, an R-E-O - R-E-O--
CARSON: Real estate?
PORTER: What's the "O" stand for?
PORTER: Owned - real estate owned, that's what happens when a property goes to foreclosure, we call it an REO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Ben Carson, genius surgeon, not a policy genius. Even two years in he doesn't know an acronym that applies to one-third of the asset sales in the Agency he oversees. It's not like what's the capital of Djibouti. He should know this. But at least he still has his job. Djibouti is the capital of Djibouti, by the way.
Unlike six former Trump advisors who were charged in the Russia investigation guilty pleas or convictions for five of them so far. The best, Trump's so good at hiring only the best that there is a 68% turnover rate of senior jobs in his administration.
According to Brookings, he's so good at hiring only the best he's considering Kris Kobach to be the immigration czar. Kobach's resume includes running the National Commission on Unproven Election Fraud which was closed down, and also for advising anti-immigrant former Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
And here's the best part, the Kobach list of demands to entice him to take the job - here's what he want. 24/7 access to a government jet - I'm not kidding, this is real. It's documented. A West Wing office, Trump telling other secretaries to follow Kobach's directives; A nomination to be Homeland Security Secretary by November; Weekends in Kansas, that's just half the list. So much for joining The Swamp. But best news is that this president is expected to go in a different direction on this job of immigrations czar. Now one fair point, it's not easy for this administration to get top people and we can all guess why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know more about ISIS than the generals do. I know more about drones than anybody. Nobody knows more about construction than I do. Nobody knows debt better than me. I know more about courts than any human being on earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: The truth is nobody needs good counsel and expert advice more than this President does, and he isn't getting it, clearly. The presidency has never been a one-man job, not even close, and many of the problems we have and continue to see are about a President evidencing a unique brand of ignorance and arrogance and that keeps the best away and keeps in the dark those who allows to stay.
In the next race, the President can accurately campaign on making the administration great again, because he has set a low bar for success on that promise to be sure. Thank you for watching us.
A CNN presidential town hall--