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Treasury Secretary Defends Withholding Trump Tax Returns; Michael Avenatti Indicted; President Trump Gets Upset at Pelosi, Cancels Infrastructure Talks. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 22, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:21]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Infrastructure, impeachment talk and investigations, those three I- words all coming to a head today, with the president vowing, at least for now, that he can't work with Democrats, a different tone, you could say, from about a month ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It was a very constructive meeting. It is clear that both the White House and all of us want to get something done on infrastructure in a big and bold way. And there was good will in this meeting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was the scene after a meeting between President Trump and Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer on how to fix the nation's roads and bridges, create jobs.

Well, today, that good will is gone after Speaker Pelosi made a startling accusation against the president just this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Would you believe that it is important for -- to follow the facts? We believe that no one is above the law, including the president of the United States. And we believe that the president of the United States is engaged in a cover-up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The speaker made those remarks just hours before today's infrastructure meeting with President Trump. The meeting went on, and then the president went straight out to the Rose Garden, furious, and claiming that his response to the Mueller report proves that he is the most transparent president in U.S. history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Instead of walking in happily into a meeting, I walk in to look at people that have just said that I was doing a cover-up.

I don't do cover-ups. And I was just looking at a list of some of the things that we just did, more than 2,500 subpoenas qualified for. I let the White House counsel speak for 30 hours. I have 19 special counsel lawyers, 40 FBI agents. I said, open it all up.

There was no collusion. There was no obstruction. This whole thing was a takedown attempt at the president of the United States.

And I walked into the room and I told Senator Schumer, Speaker Pelosi, I want to do infrastructure. I want to do it more than you want to do it. I would be really good at that. That is what I do. But you know what? You can't do it under these circumstances, so get these phony investigations over with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Mike Bender is a White House reporter for "The Wall Street Journal." He's also a CNN political analyst.

And, Mike, we just heard the president refer to the Democratic leaders today by their actual titles. So, do you think that the feel-good days of Chuck and Nancy are a thing of the past?

MICHAEL BENDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think we are going to hear from -- hear more about Chuck and Nancy pretty shortly, I would bet.

And -- but, yes, as you kind of alluded to there, if you are only tuning in for infrastructure coverage from this White House, you kind of have to wonder what happened in this past month, from when all these good feelings came out of the first meeting to now, when there was -- as you stated, the president was furious this morning.

There is an indication -- White House folks are telling us at "The Wall Street Journal" that the president does feel -- it is clearly -- he feels like Pelosi has crossed a line. He was almost there last night. We know he sent a letter to Democrats last night saying that -- all but saying infrastructure was not going to happen.

We're told that at "The Journal" that he wanted to make that stronger. He held back some until this morning, until Pelosi's comments pushed him over the edge and he decided to cancel this meeting.

BALDWIN: But yet he still allowed those Democratic leaders to come all the way down to the White House, right? They met for half-a- second.

BENDER: Yes.

BALDWIN: And then he left and rolled right out to the Rose Garden. So how exactly did this go down when he first walked into that meeting? BENDER: Well, Pelosi and Schumer and the president have laid it out

pretty -- in pretty vivid detail yet again.

The president walked into that room as furious as he appeared a few minutes later in front of cameras, and basically didn't let the Democratic leaders talk, explained to him his frustrations, and then put a hard stop at the end and saying -- all but saying, this is done.

BALDWIN: Michael Bender at the White House, thank you, Michael, very much.

Got two more Michaels coming our way. Michael Smerconish is a CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH." Michael D'Antonio is a CNN contributor, Trump biographer, and author of "The Truth About Trump."

It is a Michael trifecta today.

So, gentlemen.

[15:05:00]

Michael Smerconish, you first.

So, you have the president this morning in the Rose Garden. He's saying, essentially, I refuse to work with you Democrats until you stop investigating me.

Do you think that this is President Trump's way of triple-daring Democrats to impeach him?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I do.

In fact, I thought of Dirty Harry. I think it was "Sudden Impact," go ahead, make my day.

I think that's essentially what he's saying. He's daring them to impeach him, or at least begin this process, because, Brooke, he thinks he's -- and he's probably right -- working with a net. And the net is the Republican-controlled United States Senate.

So perhaps he's gamed this out. He's thought to himself, how would this look from a game theory standpoint? They get what they need in the House, they never get it through the Senate. I vanquish my opponents, just in time for the general election.

I think that's entirely on his mind.

BALDWIN: Backing up, Michael D'Antonio, so, according to sources, the president hears what Nancy Pelosi says, right, this morning, that he's engaged in some sort of cover-up.

The word we're hearing is that he erupted. And then we saw at the Rose Garden really singling out the House speaker. You have written a book on the man. What does Trump erupting look like?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the president erupting looks a little bit like what you saw in the Rose Garden.

He is very easy to anger. He, I think, enjoys being furious. I think he enjoys scaring people. So, when I think about Donald Trump, I think of a man who rarely draws a sincere breath. But when he's angry, he is generally sincere.

Now, this display was, I believe, a planned tantrum. By the time he got to the Rose Garden...

BALDWIN: Planned tantrum?

D'ANTONIO: ... he was -- sure, sure.

This is a very emotional display. This is a way of shaking things up. He wrote in "The Art of the Deal" that you have got to be ready to walk out. He walked out on Chairman Kim of North Korea. This is all part of the gaming that

Michael Smerconish was talking about.

And it's a strategy. It's a technique. Now, I don't know how sincere it is in this case, because he was probably looking for the opening to do this. And he got the opening, and he took it.

BALDWIN: Now, Michael Smerconish, I understand you have another point of view on how this -- how this whole played out today -- how this whole thing played out.

SMERCONISH: Well, I think he single-handedly changed the new cycle, as he is so often wont to do.

What had been the news cycle? I thought we were going to war with Iran, or maybe Venezuela, or concerned about the China tariffs, or Don McGahn testifying, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Instead, now, it's him stepping up to his Democratic opponents.

I will bet the president read "The New York Times" story today by Trip Gabriel about how folks in Youngstown, Ohio, have not yet received any of the economic relief that they expected would come their way , but, nevertheless, they're standing with the president because they like his tough talk.

And so, to Michael's point, here he was again standing up to his Democratic opponents, and it was all about the tantrum. That's now the news cycle.

BALDWIN: Absolutely, full stop, the news cycle changed once everyone scrambled to the Rose Garden.

SMERCONISH: Right. BALDWIN: But there was also this piece. There was also this piece,

Michael D'Antonio, that came out yesterday. Hope Hicks, Hope Hicks became the latest member of the president's inner circle to be subpoenaed.

And it has been reported he really considers her -- she's left the White House. She's now in L.A., but as a member of his family. And might that partly explain his reaction this morning?

D'ANTONIO: I think you touched on something very true, that Hope Hicks is sort of the closest thing to Ivanka Trump.

And if you want to get in trouble with President Trump, you insult his daughter or, in this case, you summon Hope Hicks to testify before a committee.

But I also think beneath that affection he might hold for her, there's a fear. So what does Hope Hicks know and what is she willing to say? Her decision to leave the White House when she did, two weeks after she learned the truth about how she had been manipulated by other officials and the president himself, indicates that she has a level of integrity similar to Don McGahn's integrity.

McGahn, as we know, refused to do the troublesome things the president wanted him to do because they approached criminality. So he's angry on many levels here. And he enjoys venting that anger.

It's -- I thought of a father who thinks he's going to scare their family by shouting. And it does work, but only for a moment. And it mostly works with people who are immature and easily scared.

And I'm not sure Nancy Pelosi falls into either one of those categories.

[15:10:00]

BALDWIN: I spoke with someone last week who knows her so, so well, who had worked for her, said she is unflappable.

I mean, Michael Smerconish, we know that she's been very cautious. She hasn't, of course, jumped on impeachment. What she said about being engaged in a cover-up is the strongest she's ever said. I know you're not subscribing to all this impeachment hype.

But where does she go from here?

SMERCONISH: Can I make a slightly different point?

BALDWIN: Hit me.

SMERCONISH: My truck is out of alignment. My truck is out of alignment and the roads suck. And so what the real takeaway is here is that infrastructure isn't getting done, and the country is crumbling.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: So what do we do about it? Because I want to be able to drive my truck .

SMERCONISH: Right. Well, they got to work together and grow the hell up all of a sudden, please.

BALDWIN: But we're not working together because the president says today, I'm not working with you because you're investigating me.

SMERCONISH: It's terrible.

BALDWIN: So, now what?

SMERCONISH: It's terrible. Yes, well, it's terrible.

Well, hopefully voters remember all of the aforementioned when they go and cast ballots.

BALDWIN: OK.

Two of my favorite Michaels, thank you both very much.

And, of course, we watch Michael Smerconish every Saturday morning here on CNN 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

Guys, thank you.

President Trump was also on a tear, making claims about the Russia investigation. So we will fact-check some of those statements for you.

Also, breaking news, attorney Michael Avenatti has just been charged with stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from his former client porn star Stormy Daniels. And that is just one of the cases in a new indictment.

Stay right here. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:20]

BALDWIN: Breaking news now on celebrity attorney Michael Avenatti.

A federal grand jury in Manhattan has just indicted him in two alleged schemes, one involving his former client Stormy Daniels.

CNN national correspondent Sara Sidner has interviewed Michael Avenatti. And you now have this scoop. We know that he's already been charged in several financial crimes, including that whole Nike case. What do the latest accusations involve?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So the government, of course, had to put forward the official indictment before the end of the month.

When it comes to the Nike extortion case, they're accusing Michael Avenatti of extorting Nike for more than $20 million. That is one case.

What is new and unexpected is this other charge, two charges, one of fraud and one of aggravated identity theft. That involves, as they call it, victim one, who turns out to be Stormy Daniels, we have learned.

So, that indictment involves a book deal that he had brokered for Stormy Daniels. You will remember the book. It was called "Full Disclosure." Stormy Daniels published that book. It was a story of her life, but also the story of what happened between her and then Donald Trump in 2006, when she says they had a sexual encounter.

And she described in detail what that encounter was all about and what happened after that. And so, in that book deal, according to the prosecutors, basically, they're accusing Michael Avenatti of taking money that was supposed to be given to Stormy Daniels in the very beginning of the book deal, $148,000, and having that put into an account of his that was not shared with Stormy Daniels.

They are saying that he misappropriated that money. They called it fraud and they called it identity theft because they say that he signed documents with her name that indeed she was not aware of and did not herself sign. That is the accusation there.

And, of course, Michael Avenatti has responded immediately to these particular new charges. He also talked to me about the Nike charges last month.

Let me read you first what he has put out both on Twitter and sent to CNN.

He said, look: "I look forward to a jury hearing all of the evidence and passing judgment on my conduct. At no time was any money misappropriated or mishandled. I will be fully exonerated once all of the evidence and relevant e-mails and contracts and text messages and documents are presented."

He also sent me this just a few seconds ago, that: "No monies relating to Ms. Daniels were ever misappropriated. She received millions worth of legal services and we spent huge sum in expenses."

Brooke, I want to play you just a short part of a very long, in-depth interview that I did with Michael Avenatti in April.

BALDWIN: Sure. SIDNER: We asked him specifically, because Stormy Daniels, as you know, has said that she was treated dishonestly when it comes to Michael Avenatti. She recently said that after the two of them split and their relationship ended.

I asked him about that. And I asked him about how much money he made off of the deal. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Did you lose money?

MICHAEL AVENATTI, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR STORMY DANIELS: Oh, there's no question I lost money. I mean, we lost millions of dollars by taking this case. There's no question about that.

SIDNER: Millions of dollars?

AVENATTI: Millions of dollars.

Stormy Daniels didn't pay us a bunch of money. We crowdfunded, raised some money for expenses and like. We lost millions of dollars in connection with this case. I would have been far better off financially if I would have never taken this case.

Now, it was bigger than that. And it still is bigger than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:20:01]

SIDNER: So, you heard him talking there about the amount of time spent.

You will also remember that a lot of the time was also spent on networks like ours. He did a lot of publicity, a lot of talking about it.

And I asked him, look, didn't you get as much out of this as Stormy Daniels, maybe not monetarily, but certainly publicity-wise? He said, yes, I got a lot of publicity, but that doesn't pay the bills.

So you hear there about money losses. The prosecutor is saying yes, he might have lost money. We don't know. What we do know is they're accusing him of taking money that was not supposed to be his, and then being dishonest about it with Stormy Daniels -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I hear him saying he will be exonerated. We will wait for the facts to speak for themselves.

SIDNER: That's right.

BALDWIN: Sara Sidner, thank you very much.

Aside from insisting he doesn't do cover-ups, President Trump also made some claims today about his cooperation with the special counsel and how much the Russia investigation cost. We will fact-check all of that for you.

And new images from a migrant facility on the border, forced to stop taking people in after a flu outbreak. Hear what the acting chief of

homeland security had to say about it when he was grilled today on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:51]

BALDWIN: While making his ultimatum to Democrats, President Trump also made some comments that needed fact-checking, like his claim that he never engaged in a cover-up.

So, to Tom Foreman, we go on this fact-check. So, Tom, run through it for us.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president hit very hard, Brooke, on his number one claim about the Russia investigation from the beginning. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: "The Wall Street Journal" just wrote today -- just a little while ago, I saw it -- Mr. Mueller wasn't obstructed in any way.

Here's the bottom line: There was no collusion, there was no obstruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: A sign on the president's podium even drove his point home.

But the Mueller report describes people on Trump's team deleting records of their conversations, lying to investigators. Some were even charged with that, in short, plenty of obstruction.

True, Mueller did not charge Trump, but that's because the Justice Department has a long-held belief that the Congress can impeach the president, but a sitting president cannot be indicted. So it was not the Mueller investigation, but Trump's attorney general, William Barr, who came out and said no obstruction.

The president said that he fully cooperated from the get-go with this probe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: All of these things -- look at that. All of these things. 500 witnesses that I allowed to testify. It's a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: He did not allow all 500 witnesses to testify, because he didn't have the power to do so even if he wanted to.

Only a small fraction of those witnesses were his White House employees. And he is even now fighting efforts of Congress to question some of those people who were close to him.

And he once again complained about the cost of the Russia investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Two years and $40 million or $35 million -- it'll end up being a lot more than that by the time all the bills are paid -- this is what happened: no collusion, no obstruction, no nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: His own Justice Department has said it was not $40 million or more than $35 million, as the sign on the podium said that he was pointing to.

By the latest accounting released last year, it was $25 million, when you include everything involved. It could tick up with late expenses coming in, but nowhere near that high.

And despite all of Trump's claims that this money was wasted on a hoax, that money was spent because his Justice Department felt actions, including some undertaken by Trump himself around the 2016 election and Russian interference, required investigation -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Tom Foreman, thank you for working in the facts. Appreciate you.

Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin in the hot seat on the Hill today, defending his decision to keep the president's tax returns private.

And all of this is coming as New York state lawmakers passed a law that would make it easier for Congress to get its hands on at least the state portion of Trump's returns -- details on what they could see and how that would even work.

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[15:30:00]