Return to Transcripts main page

HALA GORANI TONIGHT

Trump Threatens Mexico With Tariffs Over Immigration; U.S. Markets Drop as Trump Threatens Tariffs on Mexico; Capsized Ferry to Be Lifted from Danube River; Iran Takes Diplomatic Heat on Two Fronts; Boeing Proposes No Simulator Training for 737 Max Pilots; Trump Threatens Mexico With Tariffs Over Immigration; Philippines Ships Disputed Waste Back To Canada; Thousands Of Fans Flock To Madrid, With Or Without Tickets. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired May 31, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, happy Friday. I'm Hala Gorani.

Tonight, Donald Trump turns on Mexico, threatening tariffs if its southern neighbor can't stem the flow of migrants. But voters are standing by him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has an effect on our business, yes, but I don't blame him for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: We'll take you deep into Trump country to hear from truck drivers who are feeling the affects of the trade war but refusing to hold the

President responsible.

Plus Boeing doesn't think pilots need simulator training. We'll talk to you about the controversial plan to bring back the Max 8 after two deadly

crashes.

We begin with Mexico in the crosshairs of U.S. President Donald Trump. This time it's a trade war. But the dispute has little to do with

economics. It's over illegal immigration or migration full stop. President Trump is threatening to levy tariffs on all imports of Mexico if

it does not curb the flow of migrants. The shock move is rattling markets and throws the future of the new NAFTA deal into doubt.

Mexico's President says this is not the way to solve problems. And the country's foreign minister is heading to Washington to try, try to smooth

things over. Let's get down to the details. White House reporter, Jeremy Diamond, is standing by in Washington. But first, Patrick Oppmann joins me

from Mexico City. Talk to us about Mexico's reaction to this announcement, Patrick.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mexicans have been used to this kind of talk and threats from President Trump. As I've reported on for the last

year or so, people have shrugged. They are not shrugging now. The realize this is very serious. He's laid out a plan that starts next month, 5

percent tariffs and it grows as each month goes by.

In October, President Trump says that if Mexico does not follow through on a very unclear plan that he's laying out of how many migrants they have to

send back to Central America, migrants that are crossing through Mexico, that he could raise those tariffs to 25 percent and that would be

disastrous for the Mexican economy. The Mexican President, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, has said this is not the way to handle things. He does not

want to -- as China as done, announced tariffs on his own.

He realizes that's a losing proposition because Mexico depends so heavily on trade with the U.S. but they really have their hands tied here. Even

though Mexico says, and we've seen evidence of that, that they have increased police on the border, they've increased military presence, they

are sending more people back, we've also seen instances where 1,000 people will come across from the Guatemala border. And there is really nothing

officials can do to stop that wave. Massive caravans have been increasing.

Mexico is trying to deal with this rationally and the question is, is President Trump willing to lower the temperature here. It does not appear

so, Hala.

GORANI: It doesn't because the press secretary Sarah Sanders had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: One of the biggest things they can do is the repatriation of the thousands of people coming from Central

America. They can return them back home. They can stop these massive caravans from coming through our country into ours. That would be a very

big first step. We've made some progress on the asylum but we need to do more on that front. We're hopeful that they'll do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Jeremy Diamond, was this move a surprise

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly a surprise to people on Capitol Hill. It came hours before the President announced this

policy and frankly didn't give Republicans on Capitol Hill a lot of time to digest this move. And it has been met by a number of key Republican

lawmakers, Chuck Grassley, who urged the President to rethink this and adamantly opposed this move.

[14:05:00] And even in the White House, we're learning that the President overruled two of his economic advisers, Robert Lighthizer, Steve Mnuchin,

both of them expressed concerns, warning him that this would negatively impact the stock market and also that it could imperil passage of the

USMCA. The administration has been doing a full-court press to get House Democrats on board with this revamped NAFTA trade agreement. And now with

these tariffs, it does imperil the ratification of the trade agreement which again is supposed to be one of the President's signature

accomplishments heading into the 2020 elections.

GORANI: Two top administration officials were against it. They were overruled. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and many organizations, the wheat

growers in America, the list is long here of individuals and organizations who say this is a bad idea for the U.S. economy. Could this be a way to

divert attention perhaps away from the controversy surrounding the Mueller report? That was really the big headline yesterday and it's not today.

DIAMOND: You know, there is always that question of course. But let's also keep in mind that this week, the U.S. saw a spike in migrants crossing

the border. There was a report of at least one day when there were over 1,000 migrants crossing from Mexico into the United States. My sources

have told me that the President was really unnerved by that and, once again, calling on his advisors to do more to stop the flow and we know that

he has turned his attention to Mexico in particular.

This was the President's attempt to try to ratchet up the pressure on Mexico. The question is, whether this kind of action, tariffs, that could

hurt the Mexican economy, whether or not that's the right move to spur Mexico into more action.

GORANI: Jeremy Diamond, thank you very much. Patrick Oppmann as well. We'll be going to the border area to fact check some of these things that

Sarah Sanders said about how easily Mexico could turn around caravans or deport migrants. Let's check in on Wall Street with less than two hours to

go on the trading day. The Dow Hones industrial average is on track to close below 25000 today. That's about one percent lower. Alison Kosik

joins me now from the New York Stock Exchange.

I was looking at some of the figures here, Mexico is the second-largest supplier to the United States last year. With goods totaling billions and

billions of dollars. And because tariffs are paid by U.S. companies on the other end, we can go back to us, this could hurt the U.S. economy. What is

the main import from Mexico to the U.S. what industries are we talking about?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I think we're talking about agriculture products and of course the auto industry. That's really the

biggy. The auto industry getting hit hard with this. You look at shares right now, GM down 4.2 percent. Ford down 2.4, Chrysler down 5.1 percent.

These automakers are in the thick of it. Because every American manufacturer depends on Mexican auto parts to build their trucks and cars.

And the supply chain between Mexico and the U.S. is so highly integrated that some of the manufactured items cross the border multiple times so it

really makes it cost prohibitive to have this tariff of 5 percent or even more if it continues to top out at 25 percent in October. Mexico is

actually now the biggest U.S. trading partner and home to more than a fifth of the region's auto production facilities. General Motors has three

assembly plants in Mexico.

It built 800,000 cars just last year. So you see how much this symbiotic relationship exists between Mexico and the U.S. but the problem is, if it

becomes cost prohibitive, where do these manufacturers go to get these parts? Hala.

GORANI: Also I'm looking at the list of American companies with plants based in Mexico, IBM, Coca-Cola, General Motors, Ford all have plants

there. And also the agriculture workers that you mentioned as well are all coming out and imploring the President not to go ahead with this because it

will hurt them and hurt U.S. consumers along the way.

KOSIK: If you look at the difference between what's been happening with the U.S./China trade war and the Chinese tariffs and what's happening with

the tariffs that could possibly be placed on goods coming from Mexico, at least there was some sort of lead time to the Chinese tariffs. With this

one, no. These tariffs for these products coming from Mexico could go into effect a week from Monday. These companies that you mentioned like IBM and

on and on, they don't have time to go ahead and choose other suppliers for their parts.

[14:10:00] GORANI: What about the impact on the Mexican economy? I know you're standing at the New York Stock Exchange. If the United States has

the second largest supplier Mexican, I can't remember integration is so huge that any kind of tariff is going to impact a whole lot of people in

that part of the U.S. and in Mexico as well.

KOSIK: Well, and you're talking about it. That's where the jobs are, right? You can see a lot of jobs in Mexico just vanish if business stops

being done between the U.S. and Mexico because of the higher costs. You just hit on what the leverage is that the President has to try to get

Mexico to go ahead and stem that flow of migrants across the border. That is what I would think the President is going to be harping on.

GORANI: Thank you, Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange. Quick check on the Dow. Under 25,000 there. Some concerns especially when it

comes to the auto -- there she goes. When it comes to the auto industry and other key sectors that rely on trade with Mexico. Let's go to the

epicenter of this issue that Donald Trump is focused on, the U.S.-Mexico border.

Polo Sandoval joins me from El Paso, Texas. Let me ask you this, are there more apprehensions or more people coming -- trying to cross the border.

Why has this number of apprehensions at the border spiked so much in recent months?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a combination of both here. We have heard from federal officials here that says these human smuggling

operations are now basically clustering up these families and -- as dehumanizing as it may sound, that's their approach there. More bodies,

more money. What we saw only 48 hours ago here, you basically had a group of about 1,000 people, it's the largest apprehension that the Department of

Homeland Security has made.

Mainly the Border Patrol. All of those individuals have to be processed somewhere and that speaks to another layer of concern here. Just today,

the Office of Inspector General published a report which is quite stunning here detailing overcrowding conditions at multiple facilities here in the

El Paso region alone. Investigators visiting seven facilities in May. Five of those are facilities that are locations where these migrant

families are processed. This investigation revealing that one particular location meant to house about 125 detainees was in early May housing up to

900 individuals. That is certainly the other issue here.

The report while it's stunning, it shouldn't be very surprising. We have heard from members of the administration and also members from Customs and

Border Protection peeking before Congress saying these agents are overwhelmed by these numbers. Do not be surprised if this recently

published report is brought up by the administration and President Trump using it potentially to support his claim that Mexican officials are just

not doing enough to stem the flow. When you hear from Mexican officials, it is quite the opposite.

GORANI: I have a couple of questions. All these images and video and reports that we saw over the last year, especially the family separations,

the overcrowding you're talking about. That's not dissuading people from trying to make it into the United States. Some of them trying to claim

asylum. That's not the same thing. I know the President conflates the two, but it's not. Why are we seeing such a huge spike of people trying to

across the border despite the fact that all of these news stories should be discouraging many of them? What's going on?

SANDOVAL: One of the many reasons I've heard from some of those advocacy groups that there's concern mainly in Central America that now is the time

to do so because of the ongoing conversation that's happening in Washington, D.C. about what sections of the border might be closed off

with an actual physical barrier. There are many families in Central American countries looking for that economic opportunity. And that

continues to be the driving factor which is what we heard only about a week ago from the head of the Department of Homeland Security, the interim

secretary, saying that those economic opportunities continue to not exist in the region so that continues to be the push factor.

The pull factor, is the opportunity that could exist now. These human smuggling operations are profiting on that based on what we're hearing from

federal investigator and is that's why we're seeing them essentially bust these groups through Mexico versus what I covered ten years ago when many

of these families were making that journey on foot. Now it's hopping on a bus. Four days later you're at the nation's doorstep seeking asylum.

[14:15:00] GORANI: The other question I have for you, when Sarah Sanders says all Mexico has to do is deport people and turn back the caravans,

let's fact check that. Can Mexico be doing substantially more? This is what the United States and the Trump administration want, substantially

more. Is that even possible?

SANDOVAL: It's an important question. I'll tell you this, we heard from Mexico's President who says, look, we have statistics of our own. Just

this morning from Mexico City, Mexico's President said that they are preparing statistics showing deportations that they've already carried out

just this morning from Mexico City, Mexico's President said that they are preparing statistics showing deportations that they've already carried out

for people who have been in Mexico, undocumented.

So there seems to be this effort that we have seen from Mexican officials to try to essentially satisfy the Trump administration. Not just by

carrying out some deportations that they say are ongoing, but also by increasing resources at the southern border, back in 2014 when we saw a

rush of unaccompanied children. But finally at these border towns that are just a few miles from where we're sitting, now serving as a waiting room

where this agreement that's been in place since early this year between the U.S. and Mexico, now requires many of these central American families to

remain in Mexico until their numbers get called up.

There's a lot of fact-checking that's happening right now also south of the border and a lot of Mexican officials who are saying, look, there are

efforts that have been ongoing. But of course the question is and the big issue of debate, is it still enough, Hala?

GORANI: Thank you very much.

Still to come tonight, a deadly boat crash on in Hungary. Authorities are expanding their search for victims.

Plus a tale of two summits. New pressure on Iran from both sides of the world, Arab nations and Western countries. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Authorities in Hungary are preparing to lift a sunken tourist boat. South Korea identifies some of if victims in yesterday's crash.

This video shows the moment a larger ship slammed into a boat with South Korean tourists on board. Within seconds, the boat flips and capsizes. At

least seven people were killed and even though it has been a couple days now, 21 are still missing. Journalist Adam Bihari is with me now from

Budapest. What is the latest on the search operation in the Danube?

[14:20:00] ADAM BIHARI JOURNALIST: Hi, Hala. What you can see right behind me is probably the most iconic view of Budapest. Except for that

huge crane that I showed you a couple of hours ago is not going anywhere it stays right there for now. What the rescue forces are trying to achieve is

to fix the boat wreck at the bottom of the river so the scuba divers can get into the boat safely and look for the bodies.

Only after all of the bodies are removed from the boat, the crane will move here right next to the bridge and try to bring up the boat wreck. This is

necessary because the current is still really, really strong. You may be able to see that the Danube is flooding behind me right now. The level is

rising from hour to hour and so it's getting more and more dangerous for anyone to go under water.

GORANI: Tell me about the families of the people who have been killed, who have been killed, who are missing. Some of them have flown all the way

from South Korea.

BIHARI: They have visited the scene of the tragedy recently today. They were escorted to this island right next to the bridge where I'm standing

right now so they could see the scene itself. They are trying to wait for the bodies to be removed from the boat, of course, and then they are --

they will be able, probably, to identify all of them. There are still as you mention, there are still 21 bodies missing, some of them might be in

the boat right now.

GORANI: All right. Thanks so much for joining us with that live report.

Now to Iran whose government is taking diplomatic heat on two fronts today, on one, the U.S. and Germany are talking about how to turn up the pressure

on Tehran on the other hand an emergency summit in mecca. For more, we're joined from Nic Robertson and Atika Shubert from berlin. Let's start with

Nic Robertson in Saudi Arabia here. Saudi Arabia is trying to get Arab countries, allies and others, on board to put more and more pressure on

Iran. What was discussed at this gathering?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, what the King said was that a failure to take a firm hand has led to the strike on the

strategic oil pipeline that runs east west, west east, across Saudi Arabia and led to those attacks on those ships, just those oil tankers a couple of

weeks ago. And he called on the international community to be united in this.

What we saw was almost in the communiques from these two back to back summits that were held in the middle of the night, a six-nation member

summit and a 21 nations who are represented at the Arab league summit, Saudi Arabia is at the front line of this confrontation with Iran, missiles

are landing here. And the attacks on the vessels in the Gulf of Oman is a destabilizing force on the region.

It reduces the possibility of maintaining piece and stability and security and good business and all the people present, all the leaders present,

signed up for this concept. This was a win, if you will, for the king of Saudi Arabia.

GORANI: And Atika Shubert in Berlin. You have the German chancellor meeting with Mike Pompeo, what did they have to say about Iran? Because we

know European countries want to try to preserve this Iran nuclear deal. The U.S. has pulled out. Did they have a unified message today?

[14:25:00] ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I think this was about trying to find some sort of common ground. The Secretary of State Mike

Pompeo met with his German counterpart first and they talked about whether there should be for carrot or stick in dealing with Iran. And the U.S. is

very clear that the Iran nuclear deal is not working. But equally, Germany believes it is working. It created a whole financial instrument to sort of

skirt the trade sanctions that the U.S. has imposed.

And so there was some discussion of that. And then after the foreign ministers met, Secretary Pompeo met chancellor Angela Merkel. And he

snubbed her. He canceled the visit with her just a few weeks ago at the height of tensions on Iran. It's not a surprise. She was very

businesslike and gave him only 45 minutes of discussion with the main topic being on Iran. Nothing has come out of that meeting that we know of. But

I think it goes to show there are some deep differences between the way Germany and the EU deal with Iran and the U.S.

GORANI: All right. Interesting that the topic of Iran was 45 minutes. I'm sure it was a bit longer than that at the other meeting. What strategy

do these Arab countries feel like is in their best interest to embrace right now? Are they really seriously pushing for some sort of armed open

conflict with Iran or are they trying another avenue?

ROBERTSON: You know, that's what I found the really interesting bit, watching these two back to back summits last night is that there were no

new red lines created, no lines if Iran does this or strikes a number of ships or a pipeline again, that x, y and z will happen. It sort of speaks

to the idea that Saudi Arabia and its allies recognize that a war would be incredibly destructive. What they want is Iran to change its behavior.

They don't want his interference in meddling in the internal affairs of some of its neighbors.

They're concerned about the ballistic missiles, about its path to making a nuclear weapon, which, by the way, this evening, the IAEA has announced in

a report that Iran's level of enriched uranium is beginning to be a concern. This is something they haven't said until now. All of these

concerns played in. But how do you actually deal with it? Well, it was -- I think the way of dealing with it was to have a unified message and no

cracks in that.

The they're saying, you're distracting from the main issue for all Arab nations which is the Palestinian cause. The king said that's the number

one threat at the moment. They're trying a narrative that Saudi Arabia is dividing everyone. But they showed here that they could bring everyone

together.

GORANI: And just one last one to you, Atika, here, I wonder if obviously the U.S. and Europe are not on the same page about Iran. I guess it's

virtually impossible for European countries to start trading and doing the kind of business that they would like for Iran if the U.S. has pulled out

of the deal. What other avenues are they considering, what other options?

SHUBERT: Well, this is it, they're on the one hand wanting to try and preserve this deal. But the reality is, already major businesses have

simply said, listen, we cannot do business with Iran when we see, you know, these trade sanctions imposed by the U.S. so, you know, they have created

this financial instrument that kind of goes around it. But really it only facilitates some of the basic medicines, humanitarian goods and so forth

that Iran would not have been affected by those sanctions anyway.

So they're trying to find at this moment some sort of diplomatic way to square the circle. Can they remake the agreement in some way? Can they

add something to it that will convince the U.S. to come back to it? But at the moment, they are not able to bring that divide. But that's what these

meetings are for. We haven't heard anything yet today. Perhaps this is one step forward in finding a way to bridge that difference between the

U.S., EU, and Germany.

GORANI: Thank you.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu showed off a new U.S. state department map of Israel during a speech on Thursday. He showed that it

includes the Golan Heights as part of Israel and that the U.S. President Donald Trump wrote the word "nice" next to an arrow pointing to the Golan.

It was a gift from President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner who's on a trip to the region. Trump recognized the land as sovereign Israeli

territory in March putting the U.S. at odds with international consensus which regards the land as occupied and annexed from Syria.

Still to come --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's been doing more for this country than any President we've had probably since Reagan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: American voters in states and industries hard hit by President Trump's trade wars, stand by their man. We'll be right back. Also coming,

despite two crashes that left hundreds of people dead, Boeing is still not proposing any simulator training for pilots flying the 737 Max planes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:57] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Returning to our top story. President Donald Trump threatening new tariffs on Mexico if the

country doesn't do more to stop migration into the United States.

Our chief business correspondent Christine Romans looks at how this move would impact businesses and consumers on both sides of the border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: This is a new phase. We're entering a new phase in the president's trade wars using tariffs as

leverage not to push a trading partner on trade issues, right? But on an entirely different issue. And the outcry was immediate. The Chamber of

Commerce called it exactly the wrong move. Said it would raise costs for both businesses and consumers and the fear here is that tariffs will hurt

both economies.

You know, the U.S. imported almost $350 billion in goods last year from Mexico. The North American supply chain for autos and auto products and

other manufactured goods, it crosses back and forth across that border.

Forty percent of a parts of a typical manufactured product exported from Mexico to the United States actually originated in the United States.

Deutsche Bank says for cars in particular, if you have tariffs at 25 percent, that will add $1,300 to the cost of all cars sold in the U.S.,

American or otherwise.

Now, in 2018 Americans bought, not only autos, but machinery, medical equipment, $26 billion worth of fresh fruits and vegetables and other food

from Mexico. All those items would get more expensive, expect alliances, cars, tomatoes, avocados, fruit prices, beer prices, snack prices to rise.

But trade goes both ways, right? The U.S. sells to Mexico. What does the U.S. sell? Machinery, mineral fuels, and about $20 billion worth of ag

products last year. Including about seven and half billion in corn, and soybeans, dairy, pork, and beef.

Any retaliation from Mexico would be devastating for American farmer. They are already reeling from the president's trade war with China.

GORANI: Thanks, Christine Romans.

Let's try to make sense of this. I'm joined now by CNN global economic analyst, Rana Foroohar. Talk to us about the potential impact of this.

Five percent all the way up to potentially 25 percent tariff on Mexican goods coming into the U.S.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Well, it's exactly as Christine is saying. I mean, this is going to raise consumer prices for

average Americans. And that's going to be really interesting politically.

You know, we've been hearing a lot about how many people in some of the hardest hit states, which are the red states that voted for Donald Trump

are still with him.

The big question for me is as these impacts start to filter through to the real economy and really hit people in their paychecks, increase not just

the price of things like phones or food, but of cars, from example. I think you're going to see auto prices really going up based on this trade

war.

Then are voters going to stick with Trump or not? I think that's a very big question.

GORANI: That is a big question now. As far as the policy itself, the decision itself to impose tariffs on Mexico, Peter Navarro, the White House

Trade advisor, had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: This is actually a brilliant move by the president to get Mexico's attention, to get them to help us.

This is a very modest approach. And for the investors, please understand, we're starting at five percent, it doesn't kick in until June 10th. The

Mexican government has plenty of time to begin to work with us. Let's be patient, let's be calm, let's watch this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:35:15] GORANI: What do you make of that? This is the White House trade adviser telling CNBC it's a good idea, it's a good strategy according

to him.

FOROOHAR: Well, for starters, it's interesting that Navarro is really now in the chief seat here. All the freight traders that had ever been in the

Trump administration are gone. So the Navarro line is really the line from the White House.

And I think that what this says is that Trump and Navarro and the hawks have decided that a bipolar world, a tri-polar world, the U.S., Europe, and

China, going in different directions, is the future.

This is how it's going to be. They're going to -- they're going to knuckle down on this. I don't think you're going to see things letting up.

I think that even if you were to start to see a market correction, you may actually see nationalistic rhetoric ramping up because I think that Navarro

and the president believe, not only, that this is the way to win, but it actually might be good for the U.S. economy. Even though a lot of times

show that it's just the opposite.

Yes. I mean, the facts don't seem to support that. And there are reports as well that the treasury secretary, has opposed this move and he was

overruled as well.

And the U.S. chamber of commerce is saying this is nothing but a tax on Americans. And also, agriculture organizations, the list is very long of

organizations and people who are saying this is a bad idea.

FOROOHAR: You have to look at it through a different lens though in order to understand the president's thinking. And just to be clear, I don't

necessarily agree with his thinking. I think that there have been some legitimate beefs with China. There have been tweaks that need to be made

to the global trading system.

But the Trump camp, the Navarro camp, really believe that a more regionalized economy, an economy that is not as globalized is good. Now,

that has incredible short-term pain for U.S. consumers. Big companies that can hedge their bets might be able to weather it.

But even there, Hala, I think that you're going to start to see companies suffering. I think this could actually have a market impact. A lot of

companies have a lot of corporate debt on their balance sheets.

If their costs importing and exporting start to rise, if they had any more pressure, you could start to see insolvencies, you could start to see some

corporate bankruptcies. They would then clamp down on spending that would have an effect on jobs.

So it's really complicated and the knock-on effects are really, really hard to predict.

GORANI: And the question is, at what political impact will this knock-on effects have? And thanks very much, Rana Foroohar, as always.

This is the subject of our next story because these tariffs are having real-life consequences on states that rely on, for instances, trucking.

These states, many of them voted for President Trump.

Some of America's biggest trucking companies are blaming the U.S./China trade war, along with new tariffs for hurting their bottom line. Martin

Savidge has this story from Pennsylvania.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mark Zimmerman is in it for the long haul.

MARK ZIMMERMAN, OWNER, ZIMMERMAN TRUCK LINES, MIFFLINTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA: I am the third-generation owner of Zimmerman Truck Lines.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): He's got over 100 trucks and 140 employees in rural Mifflintown, Pennsylvania, deep in Trump country.

SAVIDGE (on camera): Who did you vote for in 2016?

ZIMMERMAN: I voted for President Trump.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Trump loves truckers. In 2017, the president parked a big rig at the White House and proudly proclaimed --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No one knows America like truckers know America.

SAVIDGE (on camera): How would you say the trucking business is these days?

ZIMMERMAN: The trucking industry is a challenge today. Every day we come to work is a fight.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Industry data shows the rates trucking companies charge down nearly as much as 17 percent. The reason, in part, the

president's trade war. With fewer goods, like steel and electronics, coming into U.S. ports, fewer trucks are needed to move them.

Zimmerman says his company's revenues are down eight percent from last year.

SAVIDGE (on camera): Do you, in any way, feel that he's the man responsible for the trade war and the setback you've been dealt?

ZIMMERMAN: It has an effect on our business, yes, but I don't blame him for it.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): This is probably a good time to point out that Mifflintown is in Juniata County, Pennsylvania, which voted more than 79

percent for Trump. Profits may be down at Zimmerman Trucking, but here in this critical swing state, the president's popularity is still high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, he's been doing more for this country than any president we've had, probably since Reagan.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Just down the road at the Clubhouse Grill, despite the local negative impact, Trump's trade war and other policies are going

over well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He continues to say I'm going to build the wall and he cares about the American people.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): In fact, almost all we talked to already know who they'll vote for next time, including Mark Zimmerman, who's currently

feeling the pain of President Trump's policies.

ZIMMERMAN: I am 100 percent certain I'll be voting for President Trump in 2020.

SAVIDGE (on camera): Getting back to the trade war, it might seem counterintuitive that if the president's policies have a negative impact on

his constituents that they would like him or perhaps like him more. Yet, that is the case here and it all comes down to perception. They don't see a

president as failing, but fighting for America and for them.

[14:40:17] Martin Savidge, Mifflin, Pennsylvania.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: It's a fascinating report here, because this is an industry, the trucking industry, that is actually suffering, not potentially suffering,

and yet many of the people Martin Savidge spoke with there in Pennsylvania say they don't blame the president, that he's fighting for them.

Let's bring in Yoni Appelbaum, he's politics editor in Washington Bureau chief over at the Atlantic. Thanks so much for being with us.

When you hear people such as the ones featured in Martin Savidge's report who say they are economically suffering from some of the president's

policies, but they do not blame him. Why do you think that is?

YONI APPELBAUM WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: Well, it tells us a lot about this moment when everything is filtered through a partisan prism.

Americans have always been willing to accept pain and to sacrifice in the short term to meet their long-term goals collectively.

They believe, some voters believed that this is a president who's fighting for them, who's standing up for them, after a long period of time which

they've felt neglected. And if his policies in the short term with the medium term cost them, they're willing to put up with that.

American voters don't necessarily vote a long narrow economic self- interest. They're willing to make sacrifices for what they see is the good of their community and the good of the country.

GORANI: What would it take for some of his core supporters, and that, by the way, percentage among the American electorate has been -- has held

pretty steady. But what would it take for some of his core supporters to turn away from the president in 2020?

APPELBAUM: You know, it's a great question, because neither the president's core supporters were a minority of the public. Nor his

opponents, who form a majority of the public, has shown much movement. Almost no matter what happens and there's certainly been news over the last

two years that might otherwise have shaken things. It doesn't appear as if macroeconomic trends have an enormous impact.

What may ultimately hurt the president here is the incoherence of the policymaking. He's trying to do three times at the same time. He's trying

to rebalance our trade with China. He's trying -- and that requires bidding an integrated North American market in a tight trade ties with

Mexico to pull that off.

He's trying to renegotiate NAFTA with the USMCA with Mexico and that means building trust and a long-term deal. And now in the middle of those two

initiatives, he's blown them both up by threatening tariffs which undermines both of those first two goals.

And so if voters lose confidence that he's actually trying to do the things he says he's doing, that could be damaging. But voters paying an economic

price, but the president doing exactly what he said he's doing, that seems unlikely to really hurt him.

GORANI: And do you get the sense that this is -- I mean, tariffs are one of his favorite weapons here. He's done it with China, he's done it with

Europe and now with Mexico. But is this a day after the Mueller report and statement dominated the headlines, potentially a way to distract people's

attention away from what happened on that front?

APPELBAUM: Possibly. But one point on which the president has been incredibly consistent is that he is going to do something about immigration

across the U.S.-Mexican border. He said that when he declared in June 2015, that he would build a wall. He made it the center piece of his

campaign. He hasn't been able to do it. He hasn't been able to stem the increasing flows of immigration across that border. And he is showing

increasing desperation trying to pull on every lever that he has to do something that the stem that flow ahead of 2020.

And so I think that's the broader context here is that he's been willing to sacrifice some of his other key goals, like renegotiating NAFTA, and

creating an integrated North American market, if that's what it takes in order to stem the tide of immigration.

GORANI: Yoni Appelbaum, thanks so much. Pleasure talking to you. I hope to do it again.

APPELBAUM: Thank you.

GORANI: Let's talk about Boeing now. It's been under immense pressure since two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max 8 airplanes in which 346

people died.

CNN has now learned that their proposal to bring back the grounded plane does not involve hands-on simulator training for pilots. Drew Griffin has

the details and joins me now.

Drew, is this unusual? Because commercial airline pilots are required to do simulator training every six months on the type of aircraft that they

fly just to keep their license. In this case, why not require it for a plane that's had two deadly crashes?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a combination of things. But you're right, they do have simulator training. And to jump ahead of the

story just a little bit, the pilots that I've been speaking to believed that simulator training, that's part of their regular training is enough.

Hala, it's important to point out that both Boeing and the FAA say this final package of software and retraining has not been formally proposed

yet. So we're dealing with the proposals that Boeing has bought to various U.S. pilots' associations.

[14:45:00] And what Boeing is saying or I should say trying to sell to these pilots is that you only need online computer-based training to tell

you what we need to tell you about this software fix. You do not need to get into a simulator and actually try to simulate this fix, because

basically we, Boeing, have taken care of this for you.

The U.S. based pilot's groups generally agree with that. They do think there's some inadequacies that need to be addressed in the manuals and

perhaps the flight checklists. But it looks like Boeing will go forward. We're trying to get recertification for the Max, without requiring, if the

FAA goes along, any additional time in a simulator.

That will save a lot of money and a lot of time for the airlines when they get this plane back up, Hala.

GORANI: Airlines will be OK with this? Will they want to take the risk of having their pilots fly a plane without having have them train on a

simulator that -- a simulator that includes that software update?

GRIFFIN: Well, there's going to be a big difference between what the U.S. Federal Aviation administration says about flying in the United States and

what the international or global civil aviation authorities are going to do, all of which say they're going to have to take a look at this final

product and determine for themselves what is adequate and what is inadequate in this.

But the logic behind it is this, the problem that MCAS, this computer system created was runaway trim where the -- where the plane kind of pushes

downwards. And it also repeatedly pushed the plane downwards as we saw in the Ethiopian crash.

Boeing is saying pilots, already across the world, train in a simulator for runaway trim, so we don't need to add that. And, two, the fix for this

software program eliminates the possibility that MCAS will repeatedly kick in so we don't need simulator training for that either.

Simulator training is expensive. 737 Max simulators themselves, Hala, are expensive and quite frankly rare. A lot of airlines don't have theirs yet.

So they're trying to save time and money and they think adequately and safely, they can get these Max's back up in the air with only this online

computer-based kind of training.

GORANI: All right. Drew Griffin, thanks very much.

Still to come tonight, the war of the rubbish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEA GUERRERO, GREENPEACE PHILIPPINES DIRECTOR: It is a deplorable practice that a lot of countries, especially in the global north, do to get rid of

the waste that they cannot process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: The Philippines says Canada sent them a big pile of garbage and called it ready to recycle. Tired of being the world's trash dump, the

Philippines is sending it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: This just in to CNN. The U.S. state of Missouri's last abortion clinic will remain open for now. A judge has just ruled that its license

will remain in effect until at least Tuesday when there will be a hearing. It was hours away from being forced to close which would have made it the

first U.S. state since Roe v. Wade to not have a single abortion clinic.

Missouri is just one of the number of states that have recently passed new very, very strict anti-abortion laws sharply curbing women's rights to the

medical procedure.

[14:50:02] Last week, Missouri's governor signed a bill that bans abortions after the eighth week of pregnancy with no exceptions for rape or incest.

Now, to a war over rubbish. Canada and the Philippines were getting down and dirty over what one country called recycling and the other, just called

garbage. Here's Anna Coren.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty-nine containers full of Canadian plastic trash on its way back home. It was

sent from Canada to the Philippines over five years ago, labeled clean and ready to be reprocessed. Much of it was unwashed food containers, filthy

and unrecyclable. So on Friday morning, the Philippines sent it back.

GUERRERO: It is a deplorable practice that a lot of countries, especially in the global North do, to get rid of the waste that they cannot process in

their own countries. So wherever waste it happens, it impinges on human rights of the people who accept the waste.

COREN: Perhaps understandable that people in the Philippines, an archipelago of picture perfect tourist beaches are unhappy about being

treated as a dumping ground.

Protests like these prompted the government to send Canada's ambassador home earlier this month with one message, take your trash back. Canada

agreed to take it, and said it would dispose of it in an environmentally responsible way.

Ottawa also promised to crack down on trash traders that purposely mislabel rubbish as recyclable.

Southeast Asian countries are routinely listed among the top polluters. As studies reveal, our world increasingly swamped in plastic.

But countries like the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam, say it's Western waste loitering their shores, sent to poorer countries instead

of being recycled.

YEO BEE YIN, MALAYSIAN ENVIRONMENT MINISTER: Malaysians, like any other developing countries have a right to clean air, clean water, sustainable

resources and clean environment to live in. Just like citizens of developed nation.

COREN: Last year, China banned imports of the world's plastic scrap for environmental reasons which means some seven million tons of plastic needs

to be recycled elsewhere. But reprocessing plastic is often easier said than done, especially when it's not clean.

Now, Southeast Asian countries are sending back anything that can't be recycled and countries like the U.S., Australia, and the U.K. have been

told to expect their garbage to be returned to them.

Malaysia and the Philippines say their trash is their problem.

Anna Coren, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: More to come including thousands of football fans are descending on Madrid for the first ever all English Champions League final, but some

can only dream of getting inside the stadium. We're live in Madrid, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: It's the greatest show in club football and thousands of fans are flocking to Madrid for the Champions League final. But many of them are

doing so only in hope. Because are pretty hard to come by. Some reports say available tickets are being sold for as much as $31,000.

In the U.K. 800 extra flights have been put on to cater for the match between Tottenham and Liverpool.

[14:55:58] Amanda Davies is in Madrid ahead of the big match. So talk to us about the fans, because a lot of them are there and they are certainly

far from being sure that they can -- that they'll be able to get into the stadium.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Hala. As you said, this is the greatest club match in European football, whether

it's a first appearance in the Champions League final, as it is for Spurs, or a ninth in the European Cup final as it is for Liverpool. It is the

pinnacle for fans. They want to be here come what may.

A couple of weeks ago, all the concerns were about prices for travel and for hotels. We ourselves experienced it. We paid in the end $900 return

from London to Madrid, a flight that would normally be just a couple of hundred dollars. And we were quoted in the region for two and a half

thousand dollars for one night's accommodation here in Madrid.

But there were some incredible stories of fans who have really been doing trains, planes and automobiles, maybe flying to Gibraltar then driving of

flying via Newcastle and then to Barcelona, then coming onto Madrid. It does seem things have now calmed down.

And actually, there were some direct flights from London available today for just a couple of hundred dollars, as you said, with the airline

companies putting on bigger planes and is more flights on the routes. By far, the biggest problem though is access to the tickets.

GORANI: We're correct.

DAVIES: It's an estimated 70,000 to 100,000 tickets.

GORANI: You are correct that there are cheaper flights. However, we had our producer check, there was no return to that cheap flight, by the way.

You'd go to Madrid and you'd basically stay there for two weeks. So the cheapest ticket we found was 1,000 pounds return.

DAVIES: There's definitely worse places to spend a couple of weeks so, Hala.

GORANI: That's very true.

DAVIES: I can say the weather here is absolutely gorgeous. The weather is gorgeous. The mood is fantastic. But these tickets are really, really

hard to come by. 100,000 fans traveling just from the U.K. We've spoken to people who have flown here all the way from Malaysia, from Israel

without the tickets. Have a listen to some of their stories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought we'd have the opportunity to try and get to the game, but it's 10,000 pounds a ticket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have ticket, it's too expensive for us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got hotel tonight. We've got no hotel tomorrow or Saturday. We've got no tickets. We're going to a return flight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no ticket yet. So we're on the lookout.

DAVIES: How confident are you of getting a ticket?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not confident at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The journey was very easy, flew direct from London to Madrid. I've got a ticket and we booked an Airbnb and trying to have fun

and no problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: All right. Amanda, we'll be watching you. Thanks so much. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END