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White House Stonewalling Subpoenas; Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Cut A Deal With DOJ; White House Directs Hope Hicks And Annie Donaldson To Withhold Documents From House Judiciary Committee; President Trump Praises May For Brexit Talks After Past Criticism; Two Sides Of President Trump On Display On The World Stage; For The Trumps, London Trip A Family Affair; British Royal Family Hosts Trump Family During State Visit. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 4, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for the love and the guidance as my family. I thank God for blessing me with family and we're a family too. I wear a uniform every night. I repeat the same slogan every night because this is a constant commitment to make a difference to you. Thank you for giving me that chance.
One down. Long way to go. God willing. Let's get after it. Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Happy anniversary and I'm so glad to have you as a friend and a partner. And you are very fortunate. You have a great family and by the way, some really good friends.
CUOMO: You are a gift. Every day. Show would never make it if we hadn't made the connection that we have.
CUOMO: It's always existed off camera, but to be with you, to resonate the way we do, to give people another look at how to deal with things that are so hard to be decent about.
CUOMO: Good for you for making it happen.
LEMON: Yes. So, can we talk? And, again, congratulations.
CUOMO: Yes, why not?
LEMON: So, because of this connection, Chris and I are doing this thing this weekend at the 92nd Street, why we are going to take our show on the road for a little bit to see this.
But I thought about us, I thought about why we connected so much. And this is kind of a sad thing. But I think it's also -- it shows people the connector. I remember a couple years ago when your pup passed, right? And I called you, and he's like said, call me back, call me back, and I said he's never going to call me back. And then you call me back and we talked in my kitchen for a little bit
and you thanked me for calling. And then we went out to dinner and you talked, you know, the impact your dad had on you and how you spent the last, his last moments.
And then I thought about, you know, my sister passing. And we had that connection between us, a loss recently. Trying to fight in this crazy world that we live in now and the same medium. We live close to each other.
It's really -- I think it's interesting. It's fascinating. And I love it that we come from two different places in the world, and backgrounds, and these forces have put us together. And we have made the best of it. And I am so proud to have you as a friend. And I'm so happy that you're doing well. And I can't wait to spend my Sunday night with you so that people can get to see us in person. How is that?
CUOMO: It's a blessing. And I love it. And it's interesting. You know, look, the best stuff that ever happens in this business is stuff you didn't plan for.
CUOMO: And we've gotten to the point now where the other night, Don, was at my house, my wife had the kickoff for her magazine, The Purist, at my house, it was a whole other situation. But I'm walking around and Don is turning around, because he hears people say, where is Don, where is Don. And I say people said that to me all the time now, I'm like walking to buy bait and someone is like, where is Don? I'm not married to the guy.
LEMON: They think it's fake. They actually think it's fake. They're like, you guys don't really hang it out. You're not really friends.
CUOMO: Yes. And I turn around to these guys at the party who are saying it is a joke. They're like, where is Don Lemon. I said, he's right there. It's all good, man. You've got to embrace the good. Because Lord knows, we've got to deal with the bad.
LEMON: I'll see you tomorrow and I'll see you Sunday.
CUOMO: I'll be there. Don't be late, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I won't. I won't. It will be fun. All right. Well, let's get to work. As Chris says, let's get after it. All right. I'll steal it for the one-year anniversary. I'll just say it this one time.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
While the president was basking in the glow of royalty, hosting a dinner for the prince -- for Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall at the U.S. ambassador's official residence and wading right into the middle of British politics, predicting that Brexit would and should happen, the subpoena battle that he set in motion is raging on here at home and waiting for him when he returns.
The White House ordering Hope Hicks and former McGahn aide, Annie Donaldson to refuse to turn over documents to the House Judiciary Committee, sticking to the president's fight all the subpoena strategy.
That, as we learn today that the former British spy behind the so- called Russia dossier has agreed to meet with DOJ investigators within weeks. That is according to the U.K. the newspaper, "The Times."
Think about that for a half second, just for a second. The Justice Department is investigating the investigators at the president's request. While the president is refusing to let his own people cooperate with investigations.
We've said it before. Irony is dead. And speaking of a subpoena battle, there is the showdown today between the House Judiciary Chairman, Jerry Nadler, and the DOJ. The Justice Department offering to turn over a limited set of documents. But not the full, unredacted Mueller report.
If the committee scraps a vote next week to hold Attorney General William Barr in contempt. So basically, you can call that's a stalling tactic. Nadler's response, calling their bluff.
So as things stand now, the contempt vote is on for a week from today. So, mark your calendars a week from today. And that's not the only battle this president has set in motion. There is also his threatened tariffs against Mexico.
[22:05:01] But it looks like a palace rebellion maybe brewing, because multiple Republican senators frustrated by the president's plan. Some like Rand Paul more than frustrated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I really do think there may be enough numbers of people who think that we shouldn't be allowing one person to make this decision that we actually may have enough to override a veto on this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think they will do that. I think if they do, it's foolish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And going on to call Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who says the president is bluffing, quote, "a creep." He tweeted that. At one in the morning. After dining with royalty, as you do. Vintage Trump.
But today in London, we saw a side of the president that we're not so used to seeing. Charming and complementary to Prime Minister Theresa May even in the face of the Brexit disaster that's driving her out of office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Perhaps you won't be given the credit that you deserve if they do something. But I think you deserve a lot of credit. I really do. I think you deserve a lot of credit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This, however, is a side of the president that we're very used to seeing. Claiming he only saw people cheering him today when the fact is, protesters were out in force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There were thousands of people cheering. And then I heard that there were protests. I said, where are the protests. I don't see any protests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now, were those protesters kept out of the president's sight? Of course. Does he know they were there? Sure seems that way. But in case he missed that -- in case he missed them, there's this for you. And this. And this. And this.
We also saw the president not just wading into his host country's politics but fighting with people he probably shouldn't be with fighting with, like the mayor of London.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He should be positive, not negative. He's a negative force. Not a positive force.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Seriously? He should be positive? Not negative? This from the man who may be the most negative force in politics? Ever? The man who by the New York Times count has hurled 598 insults at everyone from the boy scouts to the cast of "Hamilton." And there's more. Listen to what the president said about opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think that he is, from where I come from, somewhat of a negative force. I think that the people should look to do things correctly as opposed to criticize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You're not imagining it. President Trump actually said, and I quote, "I think that people should do things correctly. People should do things correctly." Yes. Yes, they should.
Things like, you know, just off the top of my head, complying with legal subpoenas from Congress. Instead of ordering your team to defy any and all subpoenas? This is a whole -- so much of emoluments. All those things. Nepotism. All that.
And then there's this. The president just cannot let go of the controversy after he called Meghan Markle, the Duchess of Sussex, nasty. According to a press statement from ITVs, Good Morning Britain about his interview with Piers Morgan the president says, quote, "they said some of the things that she said, and it's actually on tape, and I said, well, I didn't know she was nasty. I wasn't referring to she's nasty. I said she was nasty about me. And essentially, I didn't know she was nasty about me."
OK, that was a rambling explanation. But you get the gist of what he was saying. The explanation is that, he was calling her comments about him nasty, not calling her nasty.
But then he goes on to say this. "She was nasty to me. And that's OK for her to be nasty. It's not good for me to be nasty to her. And I wasn't."
So, in the middle of trying to explain away what he said, he did it again. I'm going to quote here, OK? Just so you know, I'm not making it up. "That's OK for her to be nasty." That's his quote.
The president of the United States, President Trump, on the world stage, hurling insults at anybody who doesn't agree with him. Wading into his host country's politics and stirring up trouble back home.
[22:09:57] But speaking of the world stage, speaking of Donald Trump's words and how they're perceived around the world, there is this tonight.
Tonight, on the 30th anniversary of the Tiananmen massacre, when hundreds, possibly thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators in and around Beijing's Tiananmen Square were killed in a government crackdown, let's remember what Donald Trump said about it less than a year later, OK, and this is a quote.
"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible. But they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak as being spit on by the rest of the world."
The power of strength. That is not the lesson the world took from the bloodshed in Tiananmen Square. People around the globe watched in horror as China slaughtered its own people. All because they wanted democracy. But strength, it may be the only thing that this president
understands. It's why he pals around with strong men and dictators. It's why he joked with China's president about being a king.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: President Xi, who is a strong man, I call him king. But he said, but I am not king. I said, no, you're president for life, and therefore, you're king. He said, huh. Huh. I like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This president has a lifelong obsession with wealth and power and the people who wield both. Like he does now. But who will he listen to to learn from? The queen, who talked about the lessons of world wars and nations working together for peace? Or strong men and dictators? Imposing their will on their own people?
For the leader of the free world. While the president is on a state visit to the U.K., the subpoena battle that he stirred up at home is raging. How is it going to end? That question for Phil Mudd, Laura Coates, and Matthew Rosenberg, next.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The White House ratcheting up the stonewalling, ordering two former officials to refuse to give documents to Congress relating to their work in the West Wing.
Here to discuss, Phil Mudd, and Laura Coates, Matthew Rosenberg. Good evening to all of you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Good to see you.
So, listen, Matthew, the White House is directing the former White House official -- White House officials, I should say, Hope Hicks, and Annie Donaldson to withhold documents from the House Judiciary Committee. I mean, it's yet another no from the Trump White House. What's going on?
MATTHEW ROSENBERG, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I mean I think it's pretty clear that the trump -- President Trump and many around him have decided that with the Mueller report was the end of investigations, they are not going to play ball any more. They want the investigations over and they are not going to cooperate.
And the question now is what is Congress going to do about it. They have issued a lot of subpoenas, we're talking about contempt votes. What will they do to enforce it?
At some point, they do have to do something. They're going to look fairly weak in all of this. And I don't want to make it into a game, but, you know, at some point you issue all these subpoenas, they're saying no. What do you need to do to get them to say yes? Because it's pretty clear that they're not going to say yes on their own.
LEMON: That's a good question I want to ask Phil. Phil, you know, to Matthew's point, what would you do if you're conducting a legitimate investigation and this was happening.
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Look, I think you need focus. There's questions about whether Barr comes up, whether Mueller comes up again to speak, whether Hope Hicks comes up, whether you get documents whether you get the unredacted Mueller report.
If I'm sitting here, I'm saying there is only one thing that counts here. And that is can you get people like Don McGahn, the former White House counsel or Hope Hicks in front of a camera? Can you have people come to say what happened during the campaign, what happened when you're in the White House.
All of this stuff about documents, all this stuff about unredacted Mueller report. I think there's a legal issue here. But I think in terms of the American public, until you get somebody in front of a camera to say the president impeded the investigation like Don McGahn, I don't think this game works. You've got to get people on camera in front of the Congress.
LEMON: Very interesting. So, Laura, is the White House even making an executive privilege claim and would that even hold up?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, it doesn't appear that they are, Don. It's just seeming to say no, we're telling you not to do this. And it's our prerogative that we're asking you to do this, and we're instructing you so.
Because the thought is that perhaps some of the material may be content the president of the United States could assert privilege over. The problem with that, Don, is that he has not done so in all capacities.
And so, if you don't assert the privilege you don't get to have it loom over the heads like sort of Damocles of people in case you might do it one day. If you don't assert it, you lose the privilege.
And keep in mind, a lot of information are looking for aside from what Hope Hicks that has not been published perhaps, or from Donaldson, if things have already been contained and disclosed in the Mueller probe.
And so, if you're trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube now, that's not going to be successful. And yet, still, there is still no moving of the needle away from Congress, saying, listen, we have to act on this, and there's contempt things that can occur and you cannot simply tell us you know what, I don't feel like it. It's not like Bobbi Brown here. It's not everyone's prerogative. You actually have to assert a privilege or put up.
LEMON: I respect anyone who can bring in a Bobbi Brown reference.
COATES: I can do what I want to do.
LEMON: It's my prerogative.
COATES: That's --
MUDD: I want to drop Kim Kardashian. I want to drop it.
LEMON: Well, would she be -- because -- anyway, let's get back to this. So, listen, Phil, this is for you. The judiciary chairman, Nadler, rejecting the DOJ's demand a delay. They wanted to delay Barr's contempt vote next week. Nadler saying that he wants to negotiate with them, without those conditions. So, what's this stall tactic here?
MUDD: I think this -- the stall tactic is in DOJ -- to DOJ's advantage. They've got a couple of opportunities here. Number one, the conversation is all about documents. Again, going back to the difference between the law and politics, you can talk about documents all you want. I think most of the American people are sitting back, saying I don't really know what the heck you're talking about.
[22:20:02] There's one other issue nobody talks about, Don, that's important here. And that is eventually, the FBI and the Department of Justice are going to conclude the investigations to how this investigation itself was initiated.
MUDD: I'm going to predict to you that that is going to go ugly early. In other words, the Democrats have a clock ticking. If they can't get things under way before the Department of Justice takes says here's our report and how the investigation was initiated, they're in trouble.
Because the Department of Justice, I'm going to tell you is going to say when this thing got started about the Trump campaign, it was pretty ugly and then we're off to the races. The White House will have some real ammo.
LEMON: But this isn't making it shorter. Because they're saying no, he's calling they're bluff, Nadler.
MUDD: Sort of. But I mean, they're calling bluffs on documents. Again, to go back the rational point, if I were them, I'd say hold fire, all I want to see is somebody in front of a camera. Forget about the docs.
LEMON: Yes. Laura, why does this contempt threat seem to have a bit more leverage over Barr and the DOJ?
COATES: Well, because one of the reasons that the contempt proceedings is important is, there's two paths. The criminal contempt that would actually go through DOJ, the U.S. attorney in D.C. obviously, that's not going to happen. The boss is Bill Barr.
But the other side of this is the civil side. And we've already seen two back-to-back opinions where the judicial branch has said, not even close and no cigar here. You actually have to have some legal basis to withhold the documents and some support for those things. If you do not have one, you simply want to flex a prerogative. You
can't do that. So, I think they're concerned about those back-to-back legal opinions issued by a judge, who, of course, is that third coequal branch of government that also imposes a check and balance.
Also, here, of course, remember, the idea of them trying to impose additional conditions on the negotiation process with Nadler. Remember where Nadler sits. It is the House that begins the articles of impeachment proceedings.
It is the House that can have the power that can take it outside of the discussions and the gentleman's agreement and the handshakes and say if we were to begin, for example, an impeachment inquiry, well, we don't have to do things like prior legislative purpose, you don't have to go to the courts in the same fashion and we have more power than we did today.
And so, they're concerned about the path to the judiciary and they should be.
LEMON: Matthew, let's bring you back in. Because you speak to people who are close to Christopher Steele, often. You know, Christopher Steele by the way is the ex-British spy behind the Trump/Russia dossier. What are you hearing about this reporting from the British newspaper The Times that he'll be talking to DOJ investigators? What do you know about that?
ROSENBERG: What I've been told it's the investigators who are close to the inspector general investigation and that's who he's going to be talking to. I mean, he is incredibly concerned. And maybe obsessed that this investigation is going to throw him under the bus.
And his view of this, according to people close to him, is look, I was working on this dossier. I think they're paying for. I saw things that the Democrats were paying for. I saw things that seemed frightening to me and alarming.
I went to old contacts of the FBI to tell them. I wasn't a paid source in this case. That's his view of it. And that he was simply helping them out. And what they did with it, if they used -- misused it in a FISA, or whatever they did he had nothing to do with that. Which is to a degree true. He doesn't -- he's not part of that process. He was simply a source of information. And I think he's acutely concerned that he's going to be thrown under the bus here.
LEMON: Interesting. Why do you think that is? I mean -- that he's concerned that he's going to be thrown under the bus? But I just wonder -- and you say that this reporting about it, this reporting is --
LEMON: -- going to go bad.
MUDD: I think --
LEMON: Bad feeling about it.
MUDD: Let me give you one term from the intelligence business. Validation. So, I'm investigating Don Lemon. I find a bunch of information from various individuals.
If you're conducting opposition research, somebody is paying me to find opposition information about Don Lemon. In the intelligence business, I've got to validate that. I need a second source, a third source. I need to confirm that my information on the intel side about Don Lemon is accurate.
I'm going to bet a paycheck that when Steele gets in front of investigation -- investigators and they say, how can you confirm to us that the information you acquired in that dossier is true, that he is not going to be able to answer whether he had a second or third source?
LEMON: But wasn't he just supposed to gather the information and then the intelligence community is supposed to figure out whether it's true or not?
MUDD: No, he's supposed to gather the information and then the intelligence community is supposed to figure out whether it's true or not. Because --
MUDD: No. He is supposed to gather the investigation and then the Republicans or Democrats use it in a political ad. This is an intelligence game.
MUDD: This is a political game.
LEMON: Well, I'm talking about the time it got to an investigation.
LEMON: By the time it got to --
LEMON: That's not his job to do.
MUDD: That's correct.
MUDD: But they're going to say did you confirm that your stuff is true and I bet he's going to say no.
LEMON: That is very -- that is very interesting when it comes to what happens politically and what happens legally. MUDD: Different.
LEMON: It's different, but still you can accuse people of things that they didn't do, and you know.
[22:24:57] MUDD: Yes, but the White House is then going to have an opportunity to say, look, what I told you is true. The Steele stuff, nonsense.
LEMON: Nonsense. Thank you all. I appreciate it. So, here's a question. Why is John Dean getting ready to testify in front of the House Judiciary Committee? He'll explain, next.
LEMON: The White House directing former officials Hope Hicks and Annie Donaldson to stonewall Congress over documents.
I want to talk about this now with John Dean who is set to testify to Congress about the Mueller report next week. We're going to talk about all of that, John. We have a lot to talk about.
First of all, I want to get your reaction to this continued White House stonewalling, because, you know, if we focus on Annie Donaldson, she was the chief of staff to former White House Counsel, Don McGahn, her notes are being compared to the Watergate tapes.
You know, for her notes -- her notes to be played, they played a big role in the Mueller report. So, what do you think about that? Clearly, they would be important to any congressional investigation.
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think they have great value for corroboration. She will have to put them into evidence somehow. Their pure hearsay, the notes. But hearsay doesn't count in a hearing like this. And it's totally admissible.
[22:30:01] It would be different in a courtroom. But in an impeachment proceeding or fact-finding undertaking like the House is doing right now, they're very valuable and I think all these witnesses eventually, Don, will appear.
LEMON: You know, you're going to testify on the Mueller report next week before the House Judiciary Committee, no subpoena required. How did this come about, John?
DEAN: There's a very sophisticated staff that has been quietly retained by Jerry Nadler, who is a good chairman. He is an experienced member of that committee. I have once was a counsel of that committee myself. So, I've known the committee and I've kind of stayed in touch with it for a lot of years.
Actually, back -- the last time I was invited to appear, I declined. It was during the Clinton impeachment. And they asked me if I would testify on a panel. And I said no. I said, really, I have nothing to add. And you don't need me as a witness. When they asked me this time, I thought I could bring some perspective and some insights about what happened with the situation much closer today to my experience than what happened with Bill Clinton.
LEMON: Did it have anything to do with the whole shaping of the narrative by Barr that you feel some duty to correct or to at least to tell people what the report actually says?
DEAN: Well, I think that the problem -- they are addressing is the lack of general public knowledge about what's in that report. Not many people have read that report.
DEAN: I'm actually listening to it now. There's a very good free audio edition. And I'm curious to see how detailed it is. It looks like it's got everything from the footnotes to the redacted parts. It's by audio books. And it's well read.
LEMON: You had a pivotal role in the Watergate investigation. Your testimony captivated the country. Let's watch some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: How I would present this situation to the president and try to make as dramatic a presentation as I could to tell him how serious I thought the situation was that the cover-up continue.
I began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency. And if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. I also told him that it was important that this cancer be removed immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So you helped change public opinion. Do you think that is a goal for Democrats now, educating the public about what's really in the Mueller report, or as you said, it's just -- so that people have some knowledge because they haven't read it? What's going on?
DEAN: I think they're trying to educate the public, I think they are trying to actually educate members of Congress. I would suspect a very few have probably plowed through that 448-page document. It is not a page-turner. It is written very well. It's outlined in a form that you can really start with the table of contents and get the overview of it all. And then each section, the executive summary of it, is great. So you can work your way into the detail.
But what's devastating, Don, in volume one, for example, is the 142 contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians. Now, there may not be a conspiracy, but there's just an unusual amount of contact with the Russians by that campaign. Very unusual.
And then in volume two, the obstruction, five of those cases of obstruction are -- you -- no jury could walk away from them. They're pretty much slam dunks. The other five, a little closer. They need more evidence, because people didn't address all of the facts they had. So you had to fill in some gaps there.
LEMON: John Dean, we'll be watching and maybe we'll talk before then. Thank you so much, I appreciate your time.
DEAN: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: The president is on day two of his big state visit to the U.K. and so far he is getting mixed reviews. Where he deserves credit and where he is up to his old tricks.
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Today in London, we saw a very different side of President Trump. He was gracious and complementary to Prime Minister Theresa May. I want you to listen to what he said in their final press conference before May steps aside amid Brexit-ness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's probably a better negotiator than I am. The deal is teed up. I think the deal is -- it really teed up, I think they have to do something. And perhaps you won't be given the credit that you deserve, if they do something. I think you deserve a lot of credit. I really do. I think you deserve a lot of credit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But the president wasn't all sweetness and light today. Far from it. Here to discuss is the former ambassador to NATO, Nicholas Burns.
So good to have you on, ambassador. Thank you so much. Does President Trump deserve some credit for being kind and gracious to Theresa May today? I mean, they seem to have a pretty good rapport?
NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER AMBASSADOR OF NATO: Sure, he does. And you know, Don, this is a largely ceremonial visit to the United Kingdom is to commemorate the special relationships. So the president did fine in the state dinner with her majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. He said very nice things to Prime Minister Theresa May, who is two days away from leaving. And I think he'll probably do very well. I'm sure he will.
At the beaches in Normandy when he commemorates the valor of our troops, in that extraordinary amphibious operation 75 years ago, but here's the problem. He also attacked Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, and then he criticized Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition party in parliament and then he told the British people what they should do on Brexit and he told them, who they should select as their next leader.
It's the other side of Donald Trump, it's the offensive side, it's the side that violates every rule of diplomacy and crosses lines that, you know, our mothers taught us when you visit someone's House, you are nice to them, but you don't tell them what to do.
[22:40:10] And so that is really marred his visit. It's had a tremendously negative impact, as you saw, on the streets of London and the British press.
LEMON: So, you were saying, but also it was this. Also it was that, but also he got it wrong when it came to protesters. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Today when I came, very small. So a lot of it is fake news, I hate to say, but you saw the people waving the American flag, waving your flag. It was tremendous spirit and love. There was great love. It was an alliance. And I didn't see the protesters until just a little while ago and it was a very, very small group of people put in for political reasons, so it was fake news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So it's classic gas lighting by this president. You can see the protesters. You can see the protests. What does it say when the president of the United States is blatant about lying about protesters on the world stage?
BURNS: You have to tell the truth. To be credible and you know, we're the world leader. Our president has to tell the truth and the truth is right there, on CNN, and NBC, and Fox. And there's no alternative, but to tell the truth. And I think also, Don, our president's presidents do best overseas when they try to lead positively. And the president spent a lot of time today criticizing the European Union and trying to really tear Britain apart from the E.U.
That is going to really anger a lot of Europeans. And he spent a lot of time recently embracing the anti-Democratic populous, like Victor Urban in Hungary and being very critical of Angela Merkel, he was very critical of Theresa May in months past.
And I think, you know, people don't like that, people want to see positive leadership, especially from the strongest country in the world. They don't want to see someone who was that said, who brings their own China shop with them. I think that was a Theodore Roosevelt phrase.
LEMON: I wonder, what kind of message though does this send to the allies?
BURNS: Well, it's a divisive message. And you know, here we are in the 75th anniversary of D-day. And if D-Day taught us anything, if we 75 years alter have to look at something, it's that the United States succeeded in the Second World War, not just because of the valor of our troops, but and they were courageous, but because we had allies, because Britain was with us and Canada was with us, and the free polls were with us and the same thing is true today.
You know, our big challenge is to stand up to Russia and China. We need the British and the French and the Germans and our other allies. And the president has been so dismissive. It's self-defeating for United States -- to the president to act this way. LEMON: You talk about the way the president acts, that he doesn't get
involved in, you know, the country's affairs and business and the way he conducts himself. In this trip today, he also met with Nigel Farage, he is the leader of the Brexit Party. That would be something that a U.S. president would usually avoid, am I correct?
BURNS: Very definitely. In fact, most American presidents are very reluctant even to meet the opposition leader, but Nigel Farage has not just not an opposition leader, he is the one who's led the entire Brexit campaign. And the polls show in Britain right now that the population is pretty much split. There might be a split, there might be a slight majority of people who favor staying in the European Union.
So you can imagine how all those millions of Brits feel about our president meeting the guy, Nigel Farage, who wants to yank the British out of the European Union. There is a reason why American presidents don't play favorites and don't cross these lines, because we don't want people -- we wouldn't want people doing that in the United States. We wouldn't want foreign leaders coming to criticize Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell or the mayor of Washington, D.C, but the president did all those things over the last two days.
LEMON: And Ambassador Burns, always a pleasure, thank you so much.
BURNS: Thank you, Don. Thank you.
LEMON: Nearly the entire Trump family is tagging along on the president's U.K. trip. Are they trying to make themselves out to be America's royal family?
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The president's state visit to the U.K. is looking like a Trump family vacation. His four adult children and two of their spouses in London with the president and the first lady. Let's discuss now. Victoria Arbiter is here and Timothy Naftali. So good to have you both on. Thank you.
VICTORIA ARBITER, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
LEMON: This is fascinating, I love discussing this, because everyone has been watching the pictures and many people had been glued to the television. Do you think -- good evening. So, do you think, Vicki -- or Victoria, I should say. We just had this discussion. Her dad is Dickey, she is Vicki. That's why you don't go by Vicki.
ARBITER: It's got a ring to it, right?
LEMON: So, Victoria, do you think that Trumps through this trip, they are trying to establish themselves as an America's royal family? Even though we don't have a royal family here.
ARBITER: It certainly looks like it, doesn't it? Because they just appeared at everything --
ARBITER: -- but the thing is, you can't teach class, Don. And I'm afraid class is what the royal family is all about. We saw the Trump family on the balcony of Buckingham Palace, they were taking some selfies. Yesterday, when they arrived at the state banquet, they were all dressed up in their finery, they took pictures in front of a sign that said, no photography. So those pictures then ended up on Instagram which I think is a shock.
LEMON: Let me put that up, because -- this is -- they've been posted -- Donald Trump Jr. tweeted this today. Buckingham Palace, an incredible experience with her majesty, the queen, truly unforgettable. I mean, trips like this, they are diplomatically sensitive. What do you make of the younger Trumps then?
ARBITER: Well, here's the thing. It is unusual for family. It is not unprecedented. In 2016, the Colombian president took his adult children along, but I do think it's a little odd. This is a very diplomatically sensitive trip, particularly given British politics are imploding at the moment, given the protesters that are out in force for Donald Trump.
It almost feels like he took them along just to cushion the blow. They're like a security blanket. So, he's had them appear at everything with him. He's talked about how it would be nice if the younger generation of Trumps could meet with the younger generations of royals. Which is just bizarre. Ivanka Trump is not going to inherit the presidency in a way William is one day going to become king.
[22:50:17] LEMON: I think he would like that.
ARBITER: He would like that. But they aren't even any shared interest. So, I think perhaps who's vying for the Kennedy crown that I don't think he's up.
LEMON: You know, I had someone at the Republican convention in 2016 telling me, you know, they're the new Kennedy's. And I said OK. That is a stretch. But it is unusual.
TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, there is on -- there's one Kennedy connection. So, the first lady --
LEMON: The dynasty of the Kennedys?
NAFTALI: No, no. But I'm aware in fact (inaudible) the trip. First lady Jacky Kennedy did get her sister invited to the state dinner in 1961, Princess (inaudible). She did get an invitation, but what's unusual about this family is that all of them -- the number.
We are not saying about one, two, free tickets. We're talking about a whole special side of the table for them. It's very unusual. Dynasties -- look, you don't make a dynasty by free dinner. You make a dynasty through elections. All right? And so you have to see whether this new generation of Trump's in the election.
LEMON: And what you do. What you do --
NAFTALI: Well, what you do --
LEMON: -- and charity and how you conduct yourself and the legacy you lead and so far there is no evidence of that. And that's why -- and by the way, listen, she was Jacky Kennedy. I mean, come on.
NAFTALI: Yes, she was Jacky Kennedy. Another thing is you know, --- no. no, no. I mean, we're talking about dynasties. So, here's' the thing. RFK, Jared. Robert Kennedy -- you know, but I mean, right. You have a man who doesn't -- when he speaks publicly he either doesn't remember things or doesn't really want to comment and you had a former Attorney General, not a perfect Attorney General, but a man of passion and of intellect. I don't think Jared and RFK are really on the same level. That is what you'd need to build a dynasty.
LEMON: The president told the "Sun Newspaper" that he wanted Don Jr., Eric and Tiffany to have a next generation meeting with -- why are you shaking your head -- with Prince William, Kate and Prince Harry.
ARBITER: This is why it gets too peculiar for me because first of all, you mention philanthropic endeavors already. There aren't any shared interest here, you have the Trump boys championing their hunting and big game hunting on Twitter and then you've got William and Harry desperately fighting for the survival of these African game animals and fighting for conservation. There aren't shared interests, there aren't shared charitable endeavors.
This is just kind of Donald Trump I think wanting to ingratiate his family in what he sees as a very popular culture. William, Kate, Harry, Meghan, they are all enjoying this resurgence and popularity of the British monarchy.
I think Donald Trump sees them treated with such reverence, it is perhaps hoping some of that magic is going to rub off on his own family, but out of the six family members that were there, I mean, two of them were even involved in the government and they were questioning quite what their involvement is as well. So, it seems like an opportunity to take the family along on vacation.
LEMON: And the one refreshing -- honestly refreshing Trump is Baron, he is such a cool kid. I think that it's not unusual that he wasn't there, because he is 13 years-old, Timothy, right?
NAFTALI: That wasn't unusual.
LEMON: Yes. So 2016, the Obama girls, Malia and Sasha, I ask that bout Baron as well, they attended the state dinner for Canada at the White House, they were both teenagers at the time the pictures are up there now, 18 and 15 living with their parents at the time. That is a much different experience and beautiful pictures in that by the way.
ARBITER: Much different experiencing, because they're minors and traveled along with their parents. They were also not there trying to further their own interests. They are as part of sort of the whole experience I suppose. This just feels so calculated to bring along the whole family.
You're kind of questioning to what end? Bringing them all in to the state banquet last night. To me, Don, it felt ever so slightly tacky. It was just like, everyone was along, like it was a ride at Disney World. You know, hey, guys we get to go and experience Buckingham Palace.
LEMON: But don't you think someone said, I want you there for the pictures?
NAFTALI: Well, that's the thing. They didn't get the pictures. Notice how the royals with exception of the queen, who has to be in all of the pictures and most of them, the other royals did not want their pictures taken with the Trumps.
LEMON: This is, you know, we talk about, you know, the separating from his -- divesting from his businesses and the emoluments clause and all of that. Victoria mentioned, there are only two, Jared, Ivanka, who are -- work at the government, one is a son in law and one is a daughter, but Dan, Eric, and Donald Jr. there who are running the businesses, isn't that like an unusual crossover?
NAFTALI: Well, of course, it's an unusual crossover. The fact that the president likes to stay at places he owns. I believe -- isn't he going to Scotland at some point of this trip?
[22:55:00] ARBITER: He said, he did on his working visit last year.
NAFTALI: Yes, so, Eric Trump I think is one of the officers of the Trump Organization. So, he is just making sure that dad's reservation was kept, I think.
LEMON: You had an interesting anecdote for me or assessment about how Donald Trump -- President Trump conducts himself when he is with the queen.
ARBITER: Yes, I think this is what has really struck me on this trip. It is the first time I have ever seen him show any level of deference he were now a person. Normally the -- he is a one-man show. Normally, it's all about him, now, of course, he'd love the pomp and pageantry, that has been laid on for him in the U.K. this week, but when you see him with the queen, his speech to the queen, it was just full of platitudes and affection. He was falling over himself to compliment the queen.
LEMON: Perhaps he sees --
ARBITER: His mom.
LEMON: His mom.
ARBITER: I think, perhaps.
LEMON: Well, there you go. Thank you both. ARBITER: Thank you.
NAFTALI: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.