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Trump Lashes Out Abroad As Political Trouble Brews Back Home; Pompeo And Pence Meet Mexican Officials To Discuss Tariffs; GOP Senators Join Rebuke Of U.S. Arms Sales To Saudis, UAE. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired June 05, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're just minutes away from the President's departure from the south of England to the west of Ireland. That's where he heads next. He is leaving the D-Day ceremonies in Portsmouth surrounded by veterans and other world leaders to the Trump International Golf Club surrounded by, well, golfers.

His long-awaited state visit to the U.K. is history now unlike apparently his grievances against his political opponents and the media. And believe it or not, Bette Midler all came under attack in an overnight social media barrage, the first so far of this trip.

SCIUTTO: Back in Washington, the Vice President and Secretary of State are meeting this afternoon with the Foreign Minister of Mexico in search of a way out, if there is one, from the President's latest trade war. At stake are not just higher prices and broken supply chains and higher prices for American companies and consumers, we should add, but the President's standing with republican lawmakers. And that's where we're going to begin this hour.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is at the State Department. These are crucial talks. If there was a chance to divert these tariffs from Monday, it's going to happen in that meeting room.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems to have to happen because, yesterday, Senate Republicans met with White House people, they met with Justice Department people and many were not happy. They did not get their questions answered. Some even said it wasn't really clear what would have to happen for these tariffs to go into effect. Would the White House have to declare some other emergency at the border?

So there was a lot of discontent there. But you did have some expressions of optimism from Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, for example, saying he was hopeful that something could be worked out with Mexico. We've had the Mexicans saying they feel like based on what they've seen coming from Washington, they feel like some agreement could well be in the cards.

However, the only person you don't hear any optimism coming from is the President, who, while he was traveling, said he felt like these tariffs would go into effect on Monday, starting with 5 percent increases on tariffs on Mexican goods coming into the U.S., which, as you mentioned, of course, is transferred on to consumers. And he said Mexico needs to stop all immigration going through Mexico, of course, into the United States.

Since you have optimism coming from the Mexican side, and they say they are basing that on what they've seen from Washington, it seems like possibly today in this meeting with the Vice President, with the Secretary of State, something more positive at least than what we've seen over the last two days could come out of this.

SCIUTTO: We'll watch down to the wire here, five days before the President's deadline.

HARLOW: Monday.

SCIUTTO: Monday. Michelle Kosinski at the State Department, thanks so much.

Almost this morning, members -- also this morning, members of the President's own party are signaling that they would not stand by quietly if President Trump follows through with tariffs against Mexico, even threatening the possibility of a veto-proof majority.

HARLOW: Yes. Let's go to our Sunlen Serfaty. She joins us on Capitol Hill. There's a lot of talk but there has been a lot of talk from republicans against the President in the past and never any action. Is this different?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question. I think we will see how this plays out, Poppy, over the next week. At this current moment, many republicans up here on Capitol Hill are angry. They are concerned and they are -- they feel that these tariffs will be a huge mistake, and they are essentially giving the White House an earful saying exactly that.

Now, there was that remarkable meeting, which sources describe as pretty tense up here on Capitol Hill yesterday, as you heard Michelle reference between Senate Republicans and members of the administration. The administration laid out a bit of a legal rationale that they feel they would take if they did indeed impose these tariffs.

And republican after republican, according to those senators leaving the meeting, stood up and expressed their unhappiness with their plan, expressed their dissatisfaction on how this all came about. And right now on Capitol Hill, republicans are actively discussing how they can potentially block the President on this, block the tariffs from going into effect.

It is certainly true that a lot of people are holding out hope, pinning their hopes on that big meeting between the U.S. and Mexico. Senate majority leader hoping -- saying that he hopes that this could all be avoided, essentially hopes that they do not have to take a tough vote, which when and if these tariffs go through, republicans would be in place and have been very clear that they intend to. Jim and Poppy?

HARLOW: Okay. Sunlen Serfaty, thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Well, just moments ago in the last hour, I interviewed President Trump's Senior Policy Adviser on Trade, Peter Navarro. He said those tariffs may not go into effect, he said, because we have the Mexicans' attention. But he did lay out things Mexico can do to stop those tariffs from kicking in, three things, in fact. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, TRUMP SENIOR POLICY ADVISER: Here is the thing.

[10:04:58]

If the people who are moving up with scripts to claim asylum from their narco trafficker, human trafficker handlers, simply understood that that script isn't going to work anymore getting into America, they're going to be in Mexico instead, that 100,000 will go to a trickle in the 21 days that takes for that measure (ph) to get back.

SCIUTTO: So there is a concession Mexico can make today to prevent tariffs on Monday?

NAVARRO: Absolutely. That's number one on my list. The other two things are we have a 2,000-mile plus border with Mexico, very hard to please. The southern border, however, that Mexico has with Guatemala is only 150 miles. And better yet, it has both natural and artificial choke points where it is really easy to police.

So a strong commitment from the Mexican government to put resources down there, and I'm sure this government will help them in any way possible. That's number two. And number three, look, there's a bunch of checkpoints that go from the southern to the northern border. Those checkpoints are designed to stop the flood, but instead it's the more -- the bite, the corruption, the government officials who make money off this human trafficking. That has to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So three steps there the White House, in effect, demanding from Mexico. We'll see if they get progress, confidence that Mexico is going to take those steps before that Monday deadline.

I should note that Navarro also said that American consumers would not end up paying higher prices due to the tariffs, something that other members of the Trump administration, Kevin Hassett, Poppy Harlow, just a couple of days ago, said the opposite. In fact, the facts say the opposite on that.

HARLOW: Yes. There are no alternative facts on that one. All right, let's talk about this and how it hits home, especially in the Midwest. I'd like to bring in Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota. Of course, she sits on a number of committees, including the Ag Committee. Good to have you this morning, Senator.

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: So, look, Peter Navarro is leaving the door open for some sort of deal with Mexico so these tariffs won't hit on Monday. Let's see if that happens. But if on Monday, 5 percent tariffs are slapped on all goods imported from Mexico and if Mexico retaliates, which we heard them say just a few days ago is certainly on the table, could you give us a sense of what that would mean for constituents in your state?

SMITH: Well, listen, I was just down in Southwestern Minnesota last Thursday and Friday. When you're driving through that part of the country, the fields are still wet, they're having a lot of trouble getting seeds in the ground. And then they hear about this latest round of tariffs. You know, if Minnesotans don't like something, they say it's interesting and these Minnesotans, these farmers are way past interesting. They are frustrated. They are -- they're pissed.

HARLOW: There you go, right? It may be 10:00 in the morning, but that language is necessary to convey what they're going through.

SMITH: That's right.

HARLOW: And, look, you know, my home state as well, you drive down there. That's not exactly blue liberal country, right? I mean, you've got a lot of Trump supporters, a lot of republicans there.

The University of Minnesota just came out with a study that showed that Minnesota farm income is at its lowest point in nearly a quarter century. It's down 8 percent from last year. You've got all of these farmer bankruptcies. Can you just give me a sense of what the farmers are telling you? Because the President says the farmers are with him.

SMITH: I don't think the President has talked to the farmers in Southwestern Minnesota or really any place in Minnesota. A month or two ago, I was talking with a dairy farmer, over a century farm, fifth generation. He looked at me with tears in his eyes and said this may be the first spring that we're not milking cows on this land.

People are trying to figure out whether they can pass their farms on to the next generation. This isn't a question of kind of sticking it out for another several months. It is -- as a farmer said to me last night, we are getting near desperation. I don't know who the President thinks he's doing this for, but it is not for the farmers in Minnesota.

HARLOW: So, you know, if tariffs are not the answer here --

SMITH: No. I think --

HARLOW: -- to get Mexico to the -- go ahead. SMITH: I was going to say I think that sometimes this president thinks that the tariffs are the appropriate response for anything. Minnesota farmers, and I think a lot of Americans are saying, yes, we have issues on our southern border that we need to resolve but don't drag Minnesotans and our country's farm economy, which is already struggling, into that.

HARLOW: All right. So, look, it's not just you that opposes this. I mean, there's a number of republican senators who are opposed to this. They're not mincing their words. Majority leader Mitch McConnell says there is not much support in my conference for tariffs. John Thune of South Dakota says there may be enough for a veto-proof majority to go against the President on this. Kevin Cramer, a republican senator, says there are at least 20 republican votes in the Senate to go against the President on this.

In your private conversations with your republican colleagues in the Senate, are there enough votes against the President on this one?

[10:10:01]

SMITH: Well, I can't be the whip counter for the republican caucus, but I can tell you yesterday and over the weekend, I didn't talk to -- I talked to several of my republican colleagues, and I didn't hear a single one who thought that this was a good idea. In fact, many of them think that this is counterproductive, because they are eager to figure out how to move us forward with getting to a yes on the USMCA negotiations, and this is clearly fighting against that.

You know, I think yesterday this majority leader said that they're hopeful that these tariffs won't be deployed, but we don't need hope. We need a cure. We need to stop this.

HARLOW: So on this issue of immigration, you just went down to the southern border in December. You saw a lot of this firsthand. The latest numbers from CBP tell us over 500,000 people have been apprehended at the southern border. This fiscal year, it's nearing on track to surpass a million there for the year. Is it a crisis?

SMITH: I mean, I think -- I saw families, moms and kids, dads and kids that are struggling. And when we hear the story of just earlier this week about these, what was it, over 20 children that were locked in a truck for 23 hours, I mean, that is a terrible crisis. But what is a tariff going to do to resolve that problem? I mean, nothing.

HARLOW: Just so on that point, that's a really important pointing that Jacob Soboroff at NBC did to show those children, right, and those emails about it. But just to your final point there. So if tariffs are not the answer, then to get Mexico to the table here to do more, then what is the answer? Like what would your alternative be, Senator, to President Trump?

SMITH: Well, I think we ought to have good, bilateral conversations, figuring out what can we do at the Southern Mexico border? What can we be doing at the Mexico-United States border? We need humanitarian aid at the Southern United States border. I have talked to my colleagues in Arizona and New Mexico who are visiting with their small communities in the southern parts of their state that are trying to figure out how to help these families that are literally being dropped off in their communities with no way of taking care of them. That's the kind of help that we need.

HARLOW: Senator Tina Smith, I appreciate your time this morning. And, you know, regardless of politics, I think we're all thinking about the farmers in the Midwest, in a number of states that are just getting pummeled from the tariffs, to the weather, et cetera. Thanks so much for your time.

SMITH: Thank you.

HARLOW: Sure. Another problem is brewing for the President here at home on his way back from his state visit to the U.K. A bipartisan group of lawmakers on Capitol Hill are fighting against the Trump administration on a billion dollars in arms sales deals to countries in the Middle East, including, of course, Saudi Arabia. We'll tell you what happened next.

SCIUTTO: Plus, Joe Biden blowing off his 2020 democratic rivals as they try to chip away at his big frontrunner status.

And a panic in paradise. We're learning that three Americans died within days of each other at the same resort in the Dominican Republic. Could it be coincidence or is there something more going on here?

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HARLOW: All right, just in from Capitol Hill, another display of republican resistance to a unilateral move by the Trump administration.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. This time, republican senators are joining democratic colleagues in a rebuke of the administration's arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. CNN's Alex Marquardt is in Washington. What's going on here? How did we get here too?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jim and Poppy. Well, this certainly is a stunning rebuke and this is something that we've seen quite consistently from republicans and democrats on Capitol Hill when it comes to Saudi Arabia, specifically in the wake of the horrific murder of Jamal Khashoggi eight months ago in that consulate in Istanbul. Of course, the CIA had concluded that the Crowned Prince, who is essentially the day-to-day ruler of Saudi Arabia, was behind the murder of Khashoggi.

So what we've seen since then is essentially republicans breaking with the Trump administration and democrats and republicans working together to prevent this relationship from growing really any cozier in the wake of that murder. So what we're seeing now is this, a bipartisan group of senators led by the ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez, joined by senior republicans, including Lindsey Graham, to essentially -- to putting out 22 joint resolutions of disapproval, one each for 22 different arms sales valued at $8.1 billion to both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

Now, Bob Menendez called this a run-around Congress. Congress, of course, has to approve arms sales. And Senator Lindsey Graham tied it right back to Jamal Khashoggi's murder, saying that while I understand that Saudi Arabia is a strategic ally, the behavior of the Crowned Prince cannot be ignored. So, again, it's a remarkable moment and that we are seeing republicans rebuke the President and then republicans and democrats on Capitol Hill working together.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's become the administration's M.O. If they don't get what they want through Congress, they declare a national emergency, whether it'd be on steel tariffs, Mexico tariffs, something like this.

[10:20:04]

You know, eventually, even republicans care about the law in this case.

Alex Marquardt, thank you very much.

Joining me now to discuss is CNN Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash and National Security Correspondent for The New York Times, David Sanger.

Dana, if I can begin with you just on the politics of this. So will republicans make a stand on this and stick to it on these Saudi arms deals and do they have the votes crucially to do so, particularly if the President were to veto?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly looks like they would have the votes. It is remarkable when you look at the names we're talking about on the republican side of this equation. Lindsey graham, more hawkish on foreign policy issues, on national security issues, and Rand Paul, not so hawkish on those issues.

The two of them almost never agree on anything on national security, the fact that those two are signed on, never mind that they're both two of the President's favorite golfing buddies in the United States Senate, that speaks volumes, on a policy level, on a personal level, on a political strategy level, that they are not happy. They think this is a bad move for the reasons that Alex just reported on, not just about executive power but also on the fundamentals of the fact that Saudi Arabia did what they did to an American journalist and got no retribution and no punishment from the U.S. government or from the U.S. President.

HARLOW: So, David Sanger, as Dana is laying out, the votes seem to be there. And there's also the question of the logic of the administration's argument. So just about a week ago when they argued, okay, we're going to bypass what Congress wants here and we're going to sell these arms to Saudi Arabia anyways, it's because of the immediate need to protect against Iran, right?

The issue is that some of these orders for some of the weapons that Saudi Arabia has put in are years out to being completed. So it's antithetical. I mean, it doesn't even make sense, the logic here.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Their logic does not work. So I think this is interesting sort of at two different levels. One, as Dana suggested before to us, it's fascinating because this is the only area where Congress has really stood up and the republicans have stood up to the President, and it's because they cannot find a way right now to get the administration to actually define the logic here.

You could have a relationship with Saudi Arabia and still say we're going to get to the bottom of the Khashoggi events. And if the Crowned Prince was behind it, we can't do business with him. That's the one thing they will not say. So they were much more critical on a human rights basis against the Chinese the other day on the anniversary of Tiananmen than they were here.

HARLOW: We were talking about that.

SCIUTTO: Well, the (INAUDIBLE) choice that it's all or nothing, right? The U.S. has challenged allies on a whole host of things, Israel on the settlements, you can name the examples and maintain the relationship. Dana Bash, this is happening, of course, as the President is being challenged as well by republicans once again on his promised, threatened tariffs on Mexico to be imposed on Monday.

I wonder this though. Even if republicans in that case also get a veto-proof majority, does the President -- has the President made a political calculation that, win or lose, this is good for him in 2020?

BASH: Yes, he has. Whether or not that calculation will bear out, we'll see. But he is fundamental in his belief that he made a promise back in the first campaign that he was going to deal with immigration. And he also made a promise that he was going to deal with trade. He sees these two issues with Mexico as the perfect way to marry them, as much as his allies on Capitol Hill see it as a terrible idea to marry these two issues.

You talked to Peter Navarro on our air last hour, Jim. And you heard though that the voices that he is hearing in support of this policy behind the scenes talking about it in public, that they believe Mexico is just benefiting, benefiting, benefiting from this imbalance on both policy issues and that this being tough, being Trumpian and doing something that would be perceived as downright crazy by anybody else is the only way to approach this.

HARLOW: And, by the way, politically, it may really pay off for him because he may go through with this, even though it's bad for the economy. And because it's bad for the economy, the Fed may cut rates, which is exactly what he wanted. And then he can sell his political message that I did this, America First. Oh, and I got a rate cut and that's going to prop up the economy.

I don't know if that's his intention but it might happen.

SCIUTTO: It's sufficient to alleviate the cost, yes.

HARLOW: The Mexicans though, the Foreign Minister and the Pompeo meeting is today, and some important meetings are today in Washington to see if they can stave this off. But he said he believes there's an 80 percent chance of reaching a deal.

SANGER: Well, maybe there is. And, you know, the question is, is this a short-term strategy on the part of the President to force Mexico to do something that the Mexicans, at various points, have promised to do, or is it a long-term commitment by the President?

[10:25:07]

And I think the President himself probably doesn't know. And I think the President himself probably doesn't know. I think it depends on what the economic impact is.

The President hates it whenever tariffs are described as taxes. Of course, that's essentially what they are. I thought it was interesting that even Mitch McConnell was sort of edging toward that wording the other day.

SCIUTTO: That (INAUDIBLE) as well, they're using tax. Ted Cruz is using the phrase tax, which I think is interesting.

SANGER: It is fascinating. The other interesting thing that's going on here is you're seeing a complete confusion between tariffs and sanctions. Tariffs are what supposed to be what you do to even out the playing field. And you could make an argument for that in a Mexican case. Sanctions is what you do when you're trying to change political behavior. And the President doesn't have right now authority to do sanctions on this basis, and that's why he's reaching for tariffs.

SCIUTTO: That's interesting. I didn't think of it that way

HARLOW: That is interesting.

SCIUTTO: Yes, way to go, David Sanger.

BASH: That's why we love David Sanger.

SCIUTTO: That's why we love Dana Bash. She's got some smart stuff to say every time too.

HARLOW: Jim and I are just going to go home. You guys do the rest of it from here. Thanks, guys, very much, Dana Bash, David Sanger.

So this story is just so incredibly troubling. Within five days, three Americans have been found dead at the same Dominican Republic hotel. What we are learning about this stunning vacation mystery.

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