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Trump Wraps Up U.K. Visit, Walks Back Comments on Trade; Thousands Protest Trump's Visit To London; GOP Lawmakers Oppose Trump's Tariffs on Mexico; Cardinal George Pell Appeals Child Sex Abuse Convictions; Biracial G.I. Babies Born During WWII Looking for Answers. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired June 5, 2019 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The curious world of Donald Trump. But these protests never happened, these protesters never existed but in their place thousands of flag-waving supporters no one else ever saw.
Republican revolt: after more than two years of rolling over on almost every issue, Republican lawmakers may be willing to stand up to President Trump and block his plan to impose tariffs on Mexico.
And George Pell in court in Melbourne, Australia, lawyers arguing the convicted child sex abuser didn't get a fair trial.
Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
VAUSE: In Trumpian language, the U.S. president is promising a phenomenal post-Brexit trade deal with tremendous potential with Britain. But the reality may be quite different, especially after President Trump said Britain's National Health Service should be part of the deal, sparking an immediate backlash.
He walked back those comments a few hours later. He was also offering praise for prime minister Theresa May and for her handling of Brexit, a notable reversal of previous criticisms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would think that it will happen and it probably should happen. This is a great, great country and it wants its own identity. It wants to have its own borders. It wants to run its own affairs. This is a very, very special place and I think it deserves a special place.
And I thought maybe for that reason and for others but that reason, it was going to happen. Yes, I think it will happen. And I believe the prime minister has brought it to a very good point where something will take place in the not too distant future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: But when Donald Trump met with the Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage, he said he was concerned about how long it was taking Britain to leave the E.U.
President Trump will head to Portsmouth in a few hours for D-Day commemorations. Phil Black joins us now.
First, these comments about the National Health Service. If the U.S. president is having to emphasize the benefits of this free trade deal between the U.S. and the U.K., then these comments at a news conference probably did more harm than good. Listen to what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you're dealing on trade, everything is on the table. So NHS or anything else, a lot more than that. But everything will be on the table, absolutely, OK?
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: But the point about making trade deals is of course that both sides negotiate and come to an agreement about what should or should not be in that trade deal for the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Notable Theresa May jumped in at the end there. But the president got a do-over when he said it was off the table. But despite the walkback, those comments raising fears that the U.S. is simply out there to screw over Britain in any trade deal.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a real fear and one you're going to hear a lot more about as Britain enters its post-Brexit future. When Britain leaves the European Union, it's going to have to negotiate a whole lot of new individual trade agreements with individual countries.
And it wants to do that but there are concerns because trade agreements are about give and take and the worry is that, particularly when Britain is negotiating with bigger, more economically powerful countries, such as the United States, it will be forced to grant market access to products and services that it otherwise would not like to do so and might be politically sensitive here.
And certainly the status of the National Health Service is hugely politically sensitive. The concern is that Britain would be forced to open the NHS up to American health providers in ways that people here would not be comfortable with.
The NHS isn't the only concern. You hear a lot of talk about other, particularly agricultural goods; American chlorinated chicken seems to be a politically sensitive issue there in that sense as well.
So all of these is very real fears. That said, Britain accepts there's a necessity to negotiate these trade deals. It wants to do it and has these concerns but the desire to get the deal done is -- overwhelms all of the fears at the moment.
And that's a big part of why you're seeing Donald Trump honored in this way and the close relationship of the U.S. and Britain stressed through every event that we're seeing.
VAUSE: There is a special relationship between the U.K. and the United States. It's different for the U.K. to be negotiating with the United States, compared with the U.S. negotiating with China. There is expectation that the U.S. would be --
VAUSE: -- more of a partner than an adversary.
BLACK: True. I think there's significant truth to that.
That said, free trade agreements, each country is simply out to operate in their national interest and to get the best possible result for their local industries. And I think the concern is still it would simply be the disparity, the imbalance in that sort of negotiation.
Britain is a substantial economy but, obviously, compared to the United States, the U.S. economy power, its influence -- and there's a perception here -- and this is something that some people would be prepared to acknowledge and that's that Britain ultimately, once it leaves the European Union, is no longer part of the much larger trading block.
It is a significantly smaller economic power. It has less influence and less leverage and the concern is that Britain, under those circumstances, would be muscled into accepting things that otherwise would simply not like to do.
VAUSE: I guess which is why there have been constant, sometimes subtle reminders at President Trump on the history of the U.K. and the U.S. alliance which was built during and after World War II. Listen to Theresa May's welcoming to Donald Trump on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAY: For the past 2.5 years the president and I have had the duty and privilege of being the latest guardians of this precious and profound friendship between our countries. As with our predecessors, when we have faced threats to the security of our citizens and our allies, we have stood together and acted together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Later today ceremonies will begin to honor Allied forces that took part in the D- Day invasion. There were calls not necessarily on Donald Trump but on those that fought because Trump is seen as such a divisive character. He sucks all the oxygen out of the room and that's going to be a lot easier said than done. BLACK: Today you'll see a huge commemorative event in Portsmouth
marking the 7th anniversary of the D-Day landing, military operation from World War II that went so far as to playing such a key role in the eventual outcome of the war.
You'll have leaders from 15 countries in addition to the royal family and the British prime minister here. And one focus will be the veterans, the people that fought, honoring their courage and sacrifice and those that fell that day as well.
But the other thing that you'll hear a lot about, too, will be the extraordinary international cooperation and coordination it took to plan and execute that particular operation.
Some 14 countries were involved and millions of servicemen came to the U.K. in the lead-up to the invasion of Nazi occupied continental Europe. A lot of talk about how important and crucial that cooperation was in carrying that off. The subtext being the importance of that sort of cooperation today, not just between the U.S. and the U.K. but the broader international community as well.
VAUSE: Phil, thank you. We'll catch up with you next hour.
Well, day one for Donald Trump was all about the pageantry. Day two was all about the protests. Tens of thousands took to the streets of London to demonstrate against his state visit as well as his policies. Numbers were down compared to Trump's visit last year. We have details now from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Donald Trump said he saw love and admiration, in so many words, in the protests here. Certainly when he saw his convoy drive past this Parliament Square -- we think he was probably in the vehicle -- he would've heard the intense booing of this small contingent of maybe about 10,000 or so protesters in total who gathered up in Trafalgar Square for the main protest.
Significantly smaller numbers than a year ago, no doubt about that, but the same message; again, what they say is xenophobia, Islamophobia of Donald Trump. A message of unity, in fact, expressed by the leading U.K. opposition politician, Jeremy Corbyn, who addressed that particular crowd.
They weren't allowed down the main street, close enough to Downing Street to be up against its gate but it was certainly audible inside there.
But I have to say, then it was the rain that did much of the job in terms of lessening the embarrassment potentially for Theresa May, the British prime minister, of this kind of protest here at the very heart of government.
The numbers radically dropped and, in fact, we've seen really slowly people go home here and then eventually one or two pro-Trump supporters end up surrounded by anti-Trump protests and, on two occasions, taken away by police, they said, for their own protection.
A large group over there, too, in fact, left, surrounded by anti-Trump protesters as well.
But essentially in this political climate, frankly, whether who shouts loudest feels that they've won, it was the anti-Trump protests today who made the most amount of noise. Those here in support of the American --
WALSH (voice-over): -- president, probably really dozens in their numbers at best -- Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Central London.
VAUSE: Let's bring in CNN European affairs commentator Dominic Thomas.
Here is Donald Trump's answer when asked about the thousands of protesters that turned out. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There were thousands of people cheering and then I heard that there was a protest.
I said where's the protest?
I don't see any protest. I did see a small protest today when I came, very small. So a lot of it is fake news, I hate to say.
But you saw people waving the American flag and waving your flag. It was tremendous spirit and love. There was great love. There was an alliance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The president had earlier talked about thousands of supporters that lined the streets. He was not leapfrogging from event to event in Marine One; he was traveling by motorcade. Here's what that scene looked like; not a flag, not a MAGA hat to be seen anywhere, just this giant inflatable Trump Baby in the distance.
So what is the big concern here?
A president that cannot see what's in front of him?
Or the president that sees that which does not exist?
One who is delusional?
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: The one thing he's not leapfrogging from is one media network to the other. So if he's watching us live from London, we should thank him. The word delusional is the one that works. What is at the core is
that your beliefs contradict reality. This is something that has defined his presidency, going back to counting the numbers at the inauguration. His entourage either shield him from reality or mirror back this alternative reality.
The news networks he watches mirror back a kind of alternative reality. And whenever anything happens -- in this case we have the cameras and the police reports and the photographs of the demonstrations -- whenever that doesn't match up with his particular beliefs, what he thinks he has seen, he simply dismisses it as fake news. And this is obviously a major problem here.
VAUSE: There have been Anti-American protests have been in London before. During the Iraq War, George W. Bush was incredibly unpopular but he acknowledged that. He acknowledged the war was unpopular and he didn't have to travel from event to event to avoid protests. He addressed it and moved on.
THOMAS: Absolutely right. President Trump could have said, in comparison to the demonstrations in 2003, when George W. Bush visited London, these are minute in relation to that.
At the time, Bush was visiting a prime minister, Tony Blair, with whom he was on the same page when it came to the question of conflict in Iraq. But he also said that he understood people would have different opinions and that he valued free speech. And he left it at that and provided a space for people to express different opinions on the issue of the war. That's something that President Trump is simply unwilling to do or too acknowledge.
VAUSE: There's free speech in the United States and free speech in the U.K. and free speech in Baghdad as well. That's a fair point to make.
After saying the medical services would be part of a trade deal, it seems maybe somebody had a word with the president and he got a chance to set the record straight during an interview on morning television. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't see it being on the table. Somebody asked me a question today and I say everything's up for negotiation because everything is. But I don't see that being -- that's something that I would not consider part of trade. That's not trade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Over the weekend, the U.S. ambassador caused a huge uproar when he said the NHS would be part of a trade deal, at least on the table. The White House knew this was a controversial issue and knew how people would react and yet the president stumbled on this anyway.
How much preparation did this guy do? THOMAS: Well, in this particular case, no preparation because this is an absolutely enormous and divisive issue, all the misinformation about the NHS and how much it would cost and so on and so forth. This is also -- and everybody recognizes it -- an incredible post-Second World War success story, providing universal and free health care through taxation to U.K. residents.
The Brexiteers are terrified about the implications of this. All they want is to deliver Brexit. As far as they're concerned, the future of the new Conservative Party relies on them delivering Brexit.
The last thing they want is this perception that this argument that they made that they would become this strong sovereign and independent nation will end up being the 51st state of the United States, in which, of course, everything to do with the health care system, the influence of pharmaceutical companies and so on, will shape this debate.
And it's clear that, either in his conversation with Boris Johnson or the with Nigel Farage conversation yesterday afternoon, he was asked to keep very quiet on this and, in fact, even backed down on this extraordinarily divisive issue.
VAUSE: Because what we have seen is the opposition leader has jumped on those initial comments made by the U.S. president.
He tweeted, "Theresa May stood next to @realDonaldTrump as he said the NHS will be 'on the table' in a U.S. trade deal. And that's what Tory leadership contenders and Farage are lining up for the No Deal disaster capitalism plans they have. They all need to understand: our NHS is not for sale."
This really seems to be a case of, with friends like Donald Trump, do you really need enemies?
THOMAS: Yes. This is absolutely the case. And of course the opposition are thinking long-term. Right now, all of this internal election for a new Conservative leader is somebody that will deliver Brexit.
The big question they face is, can that leader then take them to a general election?
It is unlikely that the Conservative Party in its new form can win a majority in the U.K. today. So all these people want is to deliver Brexit and if they can get to that point and leave all the rest down the road, they'll feel better off.
But it's clear that Donald Trump's visit to the U.S. -- it's hard to see how it has helped anyone in that particular quest for the leadership and I think they'll be happy when he moves on to Portsmouth and Normandy over the next few days.
VAUSE: Dominic Thomas, good to see you. Catch up next hour. THOMAS: Thank you.
VAUSE: Take a short break. Next up, President Trump's plan to slap tariffs on Mexico is being met with resistance from lawmakers within his own party.
Also ahead, that cruise to Cuba is cancelled. The Trump administration placing new restrictions on U.S. travel to the island. What the government in Washington hopes to get out of pressuring Havana.
Republican senators have done what few have ever done before. Speaking out against the U.S. president. They're opposed to his plan to impose tariffs on Mexican imports. Even White House aides say this plan risks slowing the U.S. economy. Everything from cars to food would be effected. It's not known if the Republicans have enough votes to block him but Trump says they would be foolish to try. The tariffs are to take effect on Monday in an attempt to pressure Mexico to do more to stop migrants from crossing into the U.S. illegally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mexico shouldn't allow millions of people --
TRUMP: -- to try and enter our country and they can stop it quickly. I think they will and if they won't we'll put tariffs on them and every month they go from 5 percent to 15 percent to 20 percent and then to 25 percent.
And what will happen then is all of those companies that have left our country and gone to Mexico are going to be coming back to us and that's OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Ryan Patel joins us now. He's a senior fellow with the Drucker School of Management, at Claremont Graduate University.
OK, Ryan, this does seem to be a moment of truth for the Republican and Republican Party and a commitment and belief to free trade as one of the core essential elements of party ideology. Here's Senate leader Republican Mitch McConnell. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: There is not much support in my conference for tariffs, that's for sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you try to block the tariffs?
MCCONNELL: Well, what I'm telling you is that we are hoping that doesn't happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Hope is great but many realize they will have to do something because if Trump goes into this plan, one of the only few ways it can be blocked is by a veto proof majority in Congress. And it seems Senate Republicans may be ready to stand up to the president.
RYAN PATEL, GLOBAL BUSINESS EXECUTIVE: Well, AKA President Trump is known as Mr. Tariff Man and if we haven't seen it, he has been truly going to follow this plan. To say he's bluffing, I don't really know.
To this point the Republican Party as you just heard, they are hoping that he may not get to the point where they have to do something. And the only other hope is that the Mexican officials that are here this week, that there is some positivity coming out of it and that dodges the Republican Party and the Democratic Party to be able to have to step up to the president in this case.
And what's different about this trade -- you know, this tariff is not a tool anymore. It is a weapon. President Trump has used this as a weapon where he can turn it on and off and he's using it toward the immigration policy, which is really different compared to the U.S.- China trade piece.
And this has an effect with the two sectors that you mentioned, agricultural and automotive. It could decimate both of those places and not just at the top level of companies but midsized companies, startups, when you get to the 25 percent.
VAUSE: And it's legally questionable at best.
Donald Trump was asked about this rebellion within the GOP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think of Republicans who say that they may take action to block you imposing those tariffs?
TRUMP: I don't think they will do that. I think if they do, it's foolish. There's nothing more important than borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: What happens if the Republicans wimp out and the tariffs take effect, what then?
Because the trade across this border is so linked. Goods go back and forth all the time before they reach market.
PATEL: And that's correct. I think that he's going to look for a win here to not only come through the deal, the end of NAFTA, but also he's going to get something from Mexico. This has been his M.O. Even if it's a little bit better from the deal, he's always going to use this tariff and -- in his mind, he feels like he has the leverage. He's coming out against his own party.
Who is going to tell him not to do this except for Congress?
And if Congress doesn't do it, this is going to happen. We're going to be in this tariff until he gets a win that he's looking for.
VAUSE: Well, publicly at least, the leaders from Mexico, from the president on down, appear to be calm and optimistic and they're hoping this will be resolved. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): I'm optimistic. I think tomorrow's meeting is very important and an agreement will be reached before June 10th, before the imposition of such tariffs. There are indications that U.S. officials do care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Reporting says that Mexico has prepared two plans. Plan A, reduce illegal immigration. Plan B, retaliation.
What does retaliation look like?
Because that's where we're going.
PATEL: It looks like a lot of different things. I think it's an evolution of what the China-U.S. trade piece is that if it is tariffs, they'll go after specific U.S. companies to hit it hard. They can't get into this back-and-forth because the U.S. has a little bit more to play with.
But you do have to give kudos to Mexico and the Mexican president. When Trump actually announced this, immediately he was, the Mexican president was very calm and said, I'm not going to get into this confrontation and I'm going to be able to be calm and to negotiate this.
And I think that might be a recipe for success to --
-- make this crossroads go away. But they've said everything they needed to do and now the ball will be back into Mexico's court to see what teeth they have.
VAUSE: They'll lose that because their economy is much smaller and weaker than the United States. But in terms of security cooperation, you have Mexican forces controlling the border, which, despite what the president says and he complains about illegal immigration coming into the country from Mexico, it is a legitimate concern.
But already there's a great deal of cooperation when it comes to narcotics and illegal immigration and the Mexican security forces are doing a lot. They could stop that immediately and that could have a big impact on this country.
PATEL: And that's where I think you see -- over the last few days, the U.S. citizens and consumers, let's just say, are actually a lot more -- I wouldn't say fearful but they'll feel this faster than the other trade wars that we have seen in the last 18 months.
And that's what's kind of scary about the economy. You can feel this effect much faster and feel the border open and close if all of a sudden there is no security there. You'll see it immediate over the next three months to four months, not something again compared to the U.S.-China, not something to turn off and on and back on again.
In this case, if it's going to be on, it's going to be on until October and you can believe that.
VAUSE: Interesting times. Ryan, thank you, good to see you.
VAUSE: American consumers will ultimately foot the bill if U.S. tariffs on Mexican imports and jobs will be on the line. Erica Hill went to one of the states that would be the hardest hit to get a sense of how many there feel about this plan.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A proud third generation Chrysler employee, Chris Vitale works on the engines of the future.
CHRIS VITALE, CHRYSLER EMPLOYEE: I am the engineer's hands. I put things together.
HILL (voice-over): For years politicians have campaigned for the support of the country's nearly 1 million auto workers. Now their future is linked to immigration and the president's push for stronger borders.
VITALE: I feel like he wouldn't have to resort to that if we had a Senate and a Congress that would enforce the borders.
HILL (voice-over): Vitale, who voted for Obama twice, supports President Trump and his tactics.
VITALE: People have endured much worse than expensive avocados or a few more here and there to protect the country and I think this is valid, what he is doing.
SHAWN CRAWFORD (PH), AUTO WORKER: I think it's the wrong way to go about doing it. It makes us look awful in the eyes of the world. And quite honestly, I'm ashamed.
HILL (voice-over): Shawn Crawford just moved back to his hometown for a job at GM'S Flint, Michigan, facility after the auto giant announced plans to close the plant where he worked.
CRAWFORD: I've really seen the ups and downs of the auto industry. HILL (voice-over): He worries about his future under Trump.
CRAWFORD: If you raise the price of these products less people are going to buy them. It's just common sense. And if less people buy these products that I'm building every day then they're going to have to lay people off.
HILL: How quickly do you think that could happen?
CRAWFORD: Well, in the contract it says they only have to give you 24-hour notice.
ANN WILSON, MEMA: This industry will not be able to survive in its current form with the increasing number of tariffs on Mexican goods. It just will not work and this will directly and immediately affect the American consumer.
HILL (voice-over): After 25 years in the volatile auto industry, Vitale believes they can weather a storm and is confident this president has his back.
VITALE: The idea that somebody would actually fight for us after being told for years and years, oh, you don't matter; you're going the way of the buggy whip and he's won legions of fans just for doing that.
VAUSE: Thanks to Erica Hill for that report.
U.S. airlines are adjusting their flight schedules after the Trump administration announced new restrictions on travel to Cuba. Delta has already made changes while United and Southwest Airlines along with JetBlue are still reviewing the revised regulations.
Under these new rules, organized tour groups would be blocked from traveling to Cuba by banning U.S. cruise ships, yachts and corporate planes. We're told commercial flights are still permitted to support family and other lawful forms of travel. The U.S. Treasury says the new rules are meant to keep American dollars out of Cuban coffers.
A new Cuba playing (ph), quote, "destabilizing role in the Western Hemisphere" and propping up U.S. adversaries in places like Venezuela. Cuba says it rejects the restrictions.
He's the highest ranking Catholic priest ever convicted of child sex abuse and he could also walk free within days. The very latest from Melbourne, Australia, is coming up.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for staying with us. I'm John Vause with an update on our top news this hour.
[00:32:08] The U.S. President is promising a phenomenal trade deal with the U.K. But his remarks that the National Health Service would be on the table in those talks was met with immediate outcry. He walked back the comments after the prime minister said certain issues would be off limits.
The U.S. Republican senators have warned President Trump they oppose his plan to slap tariffs on Mexican imports. That's after President Trump said it would be foolish for his party to try and block it. Mr. Trump says the tariffs will take effect on Monday, an attempt to pressure Mexico to stop migrants from crossing illegally into the U.S.
A doctors' group says at least 60 people have died after Monday's attack on Sudanese protestors. Security forces stormed a Khartoum sit-in as demonstrators called for civilian government. After the violence, the country's military leader said he wanted elections in nine months. He also said all deals with the opposition have (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Well, he rose through the senior ranks of the Catholic Church, but the disgraced Australian cardinal, George Pell, is once again in court, appealing his convictions on child sex abuse charges.
In March the former Vatican treasurer and aid to Pope Francis was sentenced to six years in prison. He was found guilty of molesting two choir boys, but his lawyers are before Victoria's Supreme Court right now, arguing he did not receive a fair trial. If the convictions are overturned, Pell could walk free.
More now from CNN's Anna Coren, live this hour from Melbourne. So what is the legal argument here that managed to get this case before the Supreme Court?
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the appeal was made several months ago by George Pell's barrister at the time, Robert Richter, but it is Sydney barrister Bret Walker who is now in charge. He is currently laying out his case in front of those three appeal court judges.
George Pell, he is there in the room. He is dressed in a black suit, a black shirt. He's wearing his collar. He's listening intently and taking notes. But as you say, there is legal argument underway. It will continue all day.
At the heart of this is that these verdicts, these five counts of child sexual abuse in which George Pell was found guilty of, that they are unreasonable verdicts. And the reason being is that the evidence and the testimony that was put before the jury was just not enough. It was not beyond a reasonable doubt that Pell was guilty of those crimes.
Now we heard from Bret Walker earlier today, and he just said it was simply impossible for George Pell to have committed those crimes. And I'll quote him. He said, "The offending not only did not occur but could not have occurred." He said that there are 13 obstacles in the way of conviction.
Now if the court of appeal agrees that these were unreasonable verdicts, then George Pell will walk free. There is no doubt about that.
[00:35:09] There are two other grounds that his legal team is appealing on. One of those is that a video graphic wasn't allowed to be used in the closing argument, and the other one was that Pell wasn't allowed to enter a plea before the jury. They are mere technicalities.
And if -- if the court of appeal finds them -- those two counts, or two grounds, I should say, then that could lead to a retrial.
But this could go, John -- this could go all the way to the high court. If George Pell or the prosecution are not happy with the decision by the court of appeals, this could go all the way to the high court.
Now earlier, we spoke to the lawyer for the father of the deceased choir boy, Lisa Flynn. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA FLYNN, ATTORNEY: I've spoken to our client this morning. He's feeling nervous and anxious but also somewhat relieved that this day has come. Ever since George Pell did indicate that he was going to appeal the conviction, this has been hanging over our client's head. So in some ways, he's relieved that we will have a decision soon. But obviously, he's also feeling really anxious that the court of appeal could overturn George Pell's conviction in relation to the sexual offenses against his son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN: Now John, as for that decision from the court of appeal, that could come down tomorrow. It could come down in a couple of weeks, a couple of months. We just don't know at this stage.
Legal opinion very much divided here in this country about which way it is going to go. Many saying that the court of appeal is reluctant to go against the jury. Those 12 Australians who heard the evidence, who heard the testimony of the surviving choir boy.
But I should also note that it is being livestreamed so that people can watch it online, due to the -- obviously, the level of public interest, John.
VAUSE: Anna, thank you. Anna Coren, live for us this hour with an update on George Pell's appeal against his child sex abuse conviction. Thank you, Anna.
Up next here, we'll meet some of the G.I. babies born during the Second World War whose lives were dictated by institutionalized racism. This story is just ahead.
VAUSE: As the world remembers the 75th anniversary of D-Day, we take a moment to remember those who have been forgotten: G.I. babies born to African-American servicemen and white British mothers during the war, biracial children who endured terrible racism.
CNN's Isa Soares has their story.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When African-American soldiers arrived in Britain in the Second World War, their bravery was instrumental in the war effort. But it was also the start of a story of love, loss, and a lifetime of searching.
[00:40:02] DAVE GREENE, G.I. BABY: That is the first one that I can remember my mom showing me of this handsome chap that she was so in love with.
SOARES: Around 2,000 mixed-race babies were born from relationships between black G.I.'s and white British women. The romances, born from wartime dances, were torn apart by peace.
GREENE: She always spoke with great fondness of my father. She told me that she would have loved to have gone to the states.
SOARES: The U.S. Army refused black G.I.s permission to marry their white British girlfriends or make paternity claims.
(on camera): And she loved your father, you said?
GREENE: Yes. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. I don't think she ever got over him.
SOARES (voice-over): After growing up in a white family, more than 50 years passed before G.I. baby Dave Greene tracked down and met his black father for the first time in Brooklyn.
But many G.I. babies have never known the love of either of their parents. Hundreds of the mixed-race and so-called illegitimate babies were put into children's homes, the stigma too much for many mothers to cope in what was then a very white Britain.
At Holnicote House in Somerset, West England, around 20 mixed-race G.I. babies were raised until they reached the age of 5, at which point they were sent to other homes or adopted. Their identity struggles began when they were sent away from other children that looked like them.
Deborah Prior and Carol Edwards were given up as babies by their mothers and lived together at Holnicote. They both remember their time their fondly.
DEBORAH PRIOR, G.I. BABY: There was a group of us all about the same age, all born '44 or '45. We were in the cots together. We shared potties together.
CAROL EDWARDS, G.I. BABY: Also played.
PRIOR: And also we played. That was our family.
SOARES: But the pain of never really knowing their birth parents has defined their lives.
PRIOR: We weren't allowed to be white, and yet we weren't black.
EDWARDS: As a teenager, I did question who was I? Who am I?
PRIOR: It's like a missing piece.
SOARES: New research for the book "Britain's Brown Babies" has only found one child successfully adopted by his American father.
LEON LOMAX, G.I. BABY: This is after they picked me up from the airport and brought me home.
I felt very lucky and very fortunate. It was really hard for them to find me. So that's another way I'm fortunate.
SOARES: Leon's mother gave up rights to him as a baby, but at the age of 3, his father tracked him down in a children's home and flew him to the United States. He still bears the scars of his mother's choice.
LOMAX: There's always kind of like a void. And that void will always be there, because I never got to meet her. I know as a kid, it really hurt me when she left, because I have a distant memory of standing in the corner of a crib, crying real hard.
SOARES: Leon's questions remain. Did she want to give him up or was she forced? Many years later he found out where his mother was. She had tragically died two years previously. Her gravestone was all he got to see.
LOMAX: There was just a lot of questions that I wanted to ask her. My sister, you know, gave me this picture. And she also gave me her wedding ring, which I wear all the time; and it was one of the best gifts I've ever gotten in my life.
SOARES: For hundreds of Britain's G.I. babies, distant memories of love offer some comfort; but they will never quench the desire for answers.
Isa Soares, CNN, Somerset, England.
VAUSE: Sad story. Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Stay with us. WORLD SPORT is next. You're watching CNN.
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