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Rep. Katherine Clark (D-MA) Discusses Foreign Election Interference; St. Louis Blues Win First Stanley Cup Championship; New Book Argues For Return To GOP's Core Principles. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 13, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:36] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump is at odds with his FBI director and attorney general, saying this from inside the Oval Office when asked if he would accept help from a foreign power in 2020.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not an inference, they have information. I think I'd take it. If I thought there was something wrong I'd go, maybe, to the FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts. She's the vice-chair of the House Democratic Caucus and serves on the Appropriations Committee. Congresswoman, thank you very much for being with us.

The president said that any member of Congress would do this. Quote, "But you go and talk, honestly, to any congressman. They all do it." Suggesting they take offers of assistance from foreign powers.

Simple yes or no. Yes or no, has any foreign country ever come to you and offered help in an election?

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): An emphatic no. And no --

BERMAN: And if --

CLARK: -- member of Congress with any integrity who wants to uphold our oath of office would ever take that information.

BERMAN: OK, yes or no. If any foreign country did come to you with information about an opponent -- yes or no, would you go to the FBI?

CLARK: Yes.

BERMAN: Do you need to pass a law which requires an elected official or candidate for office to go to the FBI if offered help from a foreign country? CLARK: Apparently, we do because what we saw was a president, yesterday, standing in the Oval Office saying he would do this all over again. That he will continue to put the rule of law, to put the Constitution, to put the American people behind anything that might give him some personal advantage.

BERMAN: Does this put you, personally, closer to supporting an impeachment inquiry?

CLARK: What it does for me is it really underlines the importance of us continuing to be aggressive in getting these facts out to the American people.

Just this week, we voted on civil contempt. We are having the hearings and we need to pursue this. We need to take our ability -- our responsibility under the Constitution for oversight and investigation so deadly seriously.

And we need to make the case about this president and this administration and we need for our partners -- our colleagues across the aisle to join us. Where is the outrage?

We have passed a bill in H.R.1 that will protect just our voting and our elections from just this kind of foreign interference. It is sitting at the Senate door. We need the Senate to do their job.

BERMAN: So --

CLARK: We need Republicans to join us and say this is unacceptable and that we must stand for the Constitution.

BERMAN: We have not yet heard from Republican members of Congress. We're eager to hear from them this morning --

CLARK: Yes.

BERMAN: -- to say -- to hear if they agree with the president on this.

In terms of what you are doing -- Democrats, in the House -- it's not enough for some Democratic activists who want to see an impeachment inquiry right away.

Brian Fallon, who was the spokesperson for Hillary Clinton's campaign, wrote overnight, "I used to think Trump could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and the Republicans would let him get away with it. Now I think the Democrats would, too."

He wants an impeachment inquiry. What's your response to him?

CLARK: You know, this is not a binary choice.

I'm a former prosecutor and I can tell you the way that I looked at this. We need to get the facts out but we have two things standing in our way. One is a giant cover-up and a stonewall from this president and this administration. But the second part of it is we have a judge and jury, which are the

Senate in this case, who have already told us they will not convict. They've already told us that they will side with the president and this case is closed.

So what we must do to uphold our oath of office is pursue as aggressively as we can, using the tools we have --

BERMAN: Yes.

CLARK: -- to make the case for the American people.

BERMAN: Another thing -- another thing that you hear from Republicans is that oh, Democrats are spending all their time investigating and they're talking about the Russia investigation, and not time doing the work of the people.

[07:35:03] You take issue with that and you note that Congress, particularly Appropriations, has been at work this week doing what?

CLARK: Oh, you know, that line from the Republicans is really just beyond cynical as we have seen the Democrats in this House come into the majority, pass bills on reducing the cost of health care.

On -- just this week with the anniversary of the horrible tragic shootings where 49 people lost their lives in Orlando, we have passed two gun safety bills -- common-sense proposals that are sitting in the Senate.

We've also passed the Equality Act, sitting in the Senate. A president who won't say he will support the LGBTQ people of this country.

There are a list of bills we are going to do -- our "For the People" agenda first. We are going to legislate, we are going to investigate, and when they stonewall us we are going to litigate.

BERMAN: Very quickly, Mitch McConnell says he wants to pass $4.5 billion in appropriations from the Senate side to deal with the humanitarian crisis on the southern border.

Is that something that Democrats will get behind or, as McConnell argues, you're trying to put riders on too many provisions on it?

CLARK: So, what we want to do is make sure that those children, those women, those families -- migrants coming here seeking asylum are treated humanely. And we agree that this administration has created a humanitarian crisis at the border and we do want to find it.

But what we need our assurances from this administration that that money is actually going to go to help people who are suffering when we see children sitting in vans for almost two days, when we have had children lose their lives in U.S. custody.

We cannot just write a blank check to this president. We want this money absolutely to go helping alleviate this humanitarian crisis that this administration has caused. But there have to be guardrails so that we know that's where the money goes.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Katherine Clark, thank you for being with us. And I know you share my disappointment in the Stanley Cup Finals from last night.

CLARK: Oh.

BERMAN: Sorry. I'm equally disappointed.

CLARK: I feel your pain.

BERMAN: Thank you so much, Congresswoman.

CLARK: Thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Question? Why are you still asking me about that? That's what President Trump says about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. But we keep asking because the answers keep getting more disturbing.

A must-see reality check is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:00] CAMEROTA: So, first, it was denying the cold-blooded murder of a "Washington Post" journalist. Then, once the evidence was indisputable, it was excusing the crime. Now, the Trump administration is trying to give nuclear technology to the same regime that killed Jamal Khashoggi.

What's going on here? John Avlon tells us in our reality check -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, guys.

So, the Trump administration still seems determined to let an autocratic ally get away with murder. But the Senate just might be showing rare bipartisan spine in an attempt to see that team Trump doesn't reward cold-blooded killing with billions in arms sales.

I'm talking, of course, about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, "The Washington Post" columnist who was dismembered by a bone saw at the order of the Saudi Crown Prince, according to the CIA.

But to hear President Trump tell it, nah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When did this come up again? What are you back -- are you back -- are you back -- what, four months ago? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: He wants us to forget about it, but we shouldn't. The Trump administration have dragged their feet at every step when it comes to assigning blame and imposing accountability, first feeding us the line that no one really knew what happened or who ordered it. Then accepting the Saudis absurd denials despite mounting evidence.

Then, reportedly, trying to block the CIA director from testifying about the audio recording that captured the killing, all while refusing to respond to Congress' demand that they apply the Magnitsky Act.

And that's not all. Just two months, when Congress passed a bipartisan resolution seeking to extract America from the Saudi-backed Yemen civil war, which has left some 50,000 people dead, President Trump used just the second veto of his term to keep us involved.

Now, the administration seems determined to reward the Saudis with an $8 billion arms sale and the transfer of nuclear technology.

Now, typically, Congress signs off on major arms deals, but the Trump administration did an end-run by citing national security. Earlier this week, though, a bipartisan Senate team, Republican Sen. Todd Young and Democrat Chris Murphy, put forward a resolution that could force a separate vote on the arms sale.

While usual Trump ally Lindsey Graham is now on board with blocking Trump from bypassing Congress, it's still unclear whether Mitch McConnell will run defense on the administration's behalf, as he's one to do.

But sales of weapons since the Khashoggi killing are only the beginning. They also seem hell-bent on aiding Saudi Arabia's march towards nuclear power and, quite possibly, nuclear weapons in violation of the Atomic Energy Act.

Now, according to a House staff report, quote, "Multiple whistleblowers came forward to warn about efforts inside the White House to rush the transfer of highly sensitive U.S. nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia in potential violation of the Atomic Energy Act and without review by Congress as required by law."

In addition, it raised specific questions about whether this nuclear transfer is being driven to, quote, "...serve those who stand to gain financially as a result of this potential change in U.S. foreign policy." And that includes Trump cronies.

As Congressman Brad Sherman who sensibly noted, "A country that can't be trusted with a bone saw shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons."

[07:45:00] This is a story about murder, money, and nuclear weapons in the Middle East and nothing good comes out of that recipe. President Trump's actions essentially give the green light to this kind of murderous misbehavior.

And if you've ever wondered what it looks like to get away with murder, take a look at this.

(President Vladimir Putin and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman high-fiving).

That smirking high-five between Putin and MBS, I've never seen Putin happier. That's it. All with the tacit approval of an American president.

It's a reminder that sometimes foreign influence doesn't just violate the integrity of U.S. elections, it can also violate fundamental American values.

And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: John, I'm so glad that you have stayed on it. The reason that we keep asking is because we've never gotten satisfactory answers.

AVLON: They don't want to give them.

CAMEROTA: And I'm so glad that you keep revealing this.

BERMAN: And if you think about the people the president has taken their side on over the last few weeks -- Saudi Arabia, Kim Jong Un on intelligence, and now, of course, the statements from the Oval Office about foreign countries meddling in the election.

All right, it is a beautiful morning in St. Louis. Yes, it is -- it is -- it is -- it just is. Everyone agrees with that.

For the first time --

CAMEROTA: Even the Arch agrees.

BERMAN: -- in their 52-year history, the St. Louis Blues are Stanley Cup champions and they absolutely deserve it. They were the better, tougher team.

Coy Wire has the "Bleacher Report" -- Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Arch looked like your upside-down smile for your Boston team losing. Good morning, John.

The underdogs having their day. Dead last in the NHL in January, then rallying to do something that the Blues had never done before.

The crazy scene in Boston where the game was played. Olympic medalist Aly Raisman and Super Bowl MVP Julian Edelman hyping up the fans.

Meantime, 1,200 miles west back there in St. Louis, fans not just selling out the Blues' arena but thousands more are watching from inside the city's baseball stadium, and their Blues deliver.

Ryan O'Reilly with this Rodin sculpture of a deflection -- masterful. St. Louis scoring two goals in the opening period to take control. From there, rookie Jordan Binnington was unreal -- 32 saves and you have to know this kid started the season in the minor leagues.

The Blues win 4-1 and for the first time in their 52-year history they are Stanley Cup champions.

Ryan O'Reilly matching the great wing Gretzky with goals in four straight Stanley Cup Final games. He is your MVP winner.

And what a moment for 11-year-old superfan Laila Anderson. It took tissues out. She's battling a rare immune disease that rarely allows her to leave her home.

The team asked her to be there to celebrate with them on the ice should they win, and win they did. She got a special clearance from her doctor in St. Louis to travel to Boston for this game. Blues players saying she's been an inspiration to them all season and there she was, smiling, crying, kissing, hugging her hockey heroes.

Let's go to soccer where France is aiming to be the first nation to hold the women's and men's World Cup titles at the same time.

Les Bleus needing help from technology yesterday to stay unbeaten in tournament play. Replay officials awarding this questionable penalty after this kick from a player from Norway. The host nation would go on to take full advantage. The penalty kick turns out to be the game- winner.

Final score two to one, France. They are the only team to beat USA in 2019. They now all but assure themselves a spot in the knockout round -- Alisyn, John.

CAMEROTA: All right, Coy. Thank you very much for all of that.

So, prominent conservative columnist George Will says the era of Trump has caused lasting damage to the Republican Party. So, what does he make of the president's admission that he'd accept foreign help in 2020? We're going to ask him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:16] BERMAN: President Trump says he would listen if a foreign government approached him with damaging information about a political rival and wouldn't necessarily report the contact to the FBI.

Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for "The Washington Post," George Will. He is the author of the new book, "The Conservative Sensibility." George, it's an honor to have you on and an honor to read your book as well. I really liked going through it.

There's one quote in here I want to start with. "The proper question for conservatives is: What do you seek to conserve? The proper answer is concise but deceptively simple: We seek to conserve the American founding."

What would the Founding Fathers think about Donald Trump?

GEORGE WILL, PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST, AUTHOR, "THE CONSERVATIVE SENSIBILITY": I think they would say that we have a constitutional disequilibrium because of a 100 -- for 100 years now, the news has been illustrating, as the news this morning illustrates. It's the same in my book.

You were just talking about Congress' impotence regarding the arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Congress' impotence regarding the repurposing of funds -- taking funds appropriated for one thing and then spending it on another -- on a wall. Congress' impotence regarding the president's declaration of an emergency -- a spurious emergency to impose taxes, called tariffs on the American people.

This is the result of more than a century of Congress, under both parties, giving power -- giving away powers they have no right to give away to presidents of both parties. This is a direct result of the progressive repudiation of the founder's architectural -- constitutional architecture of a separation of powers in order to emancipate presidents.

As a result, we have presidential government of a sort the founders never would have desired.

BERMAN: And you note that this has happened and was happening before the current president took office.

[07:55:01] And also, I would note that nowhere in this book, not once do you mention the name, Donald Trump. Why?

WILL: Well, I also don't mention Charlemagne or Doris Day.

This is a book about ideas. This is a book about -- of intellectual archeology, if you will, to reestablish the dignity and momentum of the conservative persuasion in the United States going back through Lincoln and all the way to Madison.

The current president isn't involved in the American tradition of ideas in politics.

BERMAN: Since you do talk about the founders and the desire of the founders and what they meant, I do want to read you a quote from George Washington's Farewell speech and it gets to what news we're reporting this morning -- that the president said that he'd listen if a foreign government came with dirt on an opponent.

This was in the Farewell Address. "History and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."

Alexander Hamilton wrote about foreign influence on elections in the Federalist Papers. It seems to me that this is one of the things that the founders actually thought a lot about.

WILL: They were terribly worried at that time that the British would continue to interfere or that the French from the Revolutionary government would interfere. This was uppermost in their minds. It's one of the reasons why we had the -- in the Constitution that you have to be a native-born American to be President of the United States because they were worried exactly about the foreign influence.

It's amazing that almost a quarter of a millennia later we're still worrying about this.

BERMAN: And you said -- and, again, I was struck by the fact that Donald Trump, the president, gave that interview from inside the Oval Office to George Stephanopoulos. Those words spoken inside the Oval Office.

You've said you think that the president has done more damage -- more lasting damage to the country than Richard Nixon did. What do you mean by that?

WILL: Well, Richard Nixon's burglaries and other abuses of power were surreptitious. They were secret and when exposed, they were tidied up and we moved on.

What Mr. Trump is doing that is damaging to the country is public and constant. It is a bell he's ringing that can't be unrung. He is putting into our civic discourse a level of conversation, and of name- calling, and of abuse that will now seem perfectly normal in the future.

Try to imagine any president prior to this one referring overseas to an opponent, as he did to Mr. Biden, as quoting a dictator of North Korea -- actually misquoting him -- saying that Mr. Biden is a low I.Q. idiot. That's just not the way -- I mean, our children, if they were 10 years old, we'd send them to their room without supper if they talked like that.

BERMAN: When do you think we will hear from Republicans -- members of the Republican Party coming out to condemn the statements we're hearing overnight and this morning from the president from inside the Oval Office?

WILL: Don't hold your breath. The Republican Party, today, is more homogeneous -- more without dissent than it has been since Teddy Roosevelt went to war against William Howard Taft because he wanted the White House back.

We've had Dewey against Taft in the 40s, we had Goldwater against Rockefeller in the 60s. The Republican Party has always had factions.

Unfortunately, the Republican Party has no faction today. It is entirely Mr. Trump's party.

BERMAN: So, do you think the Republican Party any longer stands for all the values you write about in this book?

WILL: Certainly not or I might not have written the book. This book is to say this is what conservatism has been. It's a dignified useful persuasion and it can be again.

BERMAN: And since we're doing the book club, you've suggested recently that you think everyone should go back and read "All the King's Men" by Robert Penn Warren and it applies directly to the moment we're in now. Why?

WILL: Well, it's the great American political novel and it is about populism. And it is about an unhinged executive, Huey Long of Alabama, in the novel as Willie Stark. And it shows you what can happen when a leader -- an executive escapes all restraints and is a law unto himself.

BERMAN: George Will, I want to thank you for being with us this morning.

And if people have the Internet, go back. I did a piece once with George where I had him read out loud from a Harlequin novel and that, in and of itself, is worth the price of admission.

Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

WILL: Glad to be with you.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

CAMEROTA: All right. We are following some breaking news right now, John.

Two oil tankers have been attacked in the Middle East. Some survivors are now on board a U.S. ship. Who was behind this attack?

Let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: All right, good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, June 13th, 8:00 now in the East.

And we are following that breaking news for you about two oil tankers attacked in the Gulf of Oman. These are new pictures just into CNN and they show one of the damaged tankers after a reported explosion and fire. You can see on your screen that huge plume of black smoke coming from the vessel.

A U.S. Navy ship was in the area. It was quick to respond, rescuing crew members.

Let's bring in CNN's Barbara Starr. She's live at the Pentagon with the latest on what she.

END