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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

Trump Does Damage Control Ahead Of Campaign Kickoff; Sarah Sanders Leaving White House By The End Of The Month; ABC News Reports Trump Spent 30 Hours With George Stephanopoulos; Rep. Tim Ryan (D) Ohio Says He Wants To Fight For The Americans Trump Left Behind; Some Dem Voters Wary Of Repeating 2016 Primary Mistakes; Biden: "We're In Real Trouble" If My Way Is Old-Fashioned; Younger Candidates Hit Biden With Generation Argument; Sanders, Hickenlooper Trade Jabs On Democratic Socialism; Sanders Uses RDR's "New Deal" To Defend Democratic Socialism; Former Massachusetts Governor On Primary Fight Against Trump; East West Market Slogan: "Avoid The Shame. Bring A Reusable Bag". Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 15, 2019 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED. I have not one but two presidential candidates on the live show for you tonight, both hoping to get the better of the guy in the Oval Office.

And for him I have tonight's headline, good news/bad news. It's been an eventful week for President Trump filled with highs and lows. In good news, Trump is headed to Orlando on Tuesday, where he'll officially kick off his re-election campaign. Trump says they have received 100,000 ticket requests for the 20,000 seat venue. In more good news, he gets to redesign Air Force One, the President's plane, and he revealed mock-ups of new color schemes.

These sort of things, as we know, are his favorite part of presidenting. But the bad news is he's still got to do some hard stuff. There's that immigration issue. U.S. officials say Iran just fired a missile at one of our drones before attacking two tankers in the Gulf of Oman and there's that pesky trade negotiation.

On Thursday 600 companies, including Walmart, Costco and Target warned the President that tariffs on China would seriously damage the U.S. economy, result in sweeping job losses and millions of consumers. Better sort that one out, Mr. President.

More bad news, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Trump's trusted White House Press Secretary, announced she's leaving the job, a job she redefined over the course of by, well, not doing it. She gradually shortened the White House Press briefings and then eventually canceled them all together. She'll be missed.

But in good news, Trump says he's eager to fill the position and is not at all concerned about finding the right person for the job. He said, we have a lot of great people, we have a lot of people to choose from. We'll see.

Some more good news, Trump is, quote, doing great in the polls, even better than in 2016, according to him in a Tweet this morning. The bad news, no, he's not. The campaign's own internal polling has the President lagging in critical states, like Pennsylvania and Michigan.

The Internal poll published by ABC News on Friday shows Trump trailing Joe Biden by huge margins in states he won in 2016. It shows Trump holding on in Texas by just two points against Biden. Texas. It also shows him trailing every Democratic presidential contender in head-to- head matchups.

Trump's denied these findings and told his staff to do the same. Yesterday his campaign claimed the lead numbers were outdated and, quote, meaningless. OK then. This is all normal.

Moving right along, more good news, Trump gave a wide-ranging interview to George Stephanopoulos, in which they discussed everything from the Mueller investigation to UFOs. Here is his take on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think my great -- our great pilots would know and some of them really see things that are a little bit different than in the past. So we're going to see. But we'll watch it. You'll be the first to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Yes. But though there's bad news too. He's also in that interview admitting he'd probably take illegal information on his election opponents from foreigners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is somebody that said, we have information on your opponent. Oh, let me call the FBI. Give me a break. Life doesn't work that way.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: The FBI Director says that's what should happen.

TRUMP: The FBI Director is wrong.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You campaigned this around. If foreigners, if Russia, if China, if someone else offers you information on an opponent, should they accept it or should they call the FBI?

TRUMP: I think maybe you do both. I think you might want to listen. I know there's no nothing wrong with listening. If somebody called from country, Norway, we have information on your opponent, oh, I think I'd want to hear.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you want that kind of interference in our elections?

TRUMP: It's not an interference. They have information. I think I'd take it. It's called oppo research.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Well, here's what the campaign finance law says. It shall be illegal for a person to solicit, accept or see a contribution or donation described as money or another thing of value in connection with a federal, state or local election from a foreign national.

After two days of damage control, Trump sort of backpedaled during a call into Fox and Friends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you don't hear what it is, you don't know what it is. I mean, how could you report something that you don't know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. How do you know it's bad if you don't listen to it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, Mr. President --

TRUMP: No, no. They'll say, oh, he would accept it. Well, if I don't listen, you're not going to know.

Now, if I thought anything was incorrect or badly stated, I'd report it to the Attorney General, the FBI, I'd report it to law enforcement, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:05:01]

CUPP: Here's the deal. Trump is about to head into campaign mode, as if he ever really left it. He'll hold huge rallies, in which he'll colorfully and creatively slam the 2020 Democratic contenders. He'll lie about his polls or the Mueller investigation or the media.

He'll boast about solving problems that he hasn't and in some cases that he created and he may even, from time to time, accidentally tout his policy successes like tax reform, deregulation and record unemployment. We all know it's coming because we've seen it now for years.

But unlike in the run-up to 2016, he's actually president now and we still have real problems. All the tinkering with Air Force One paint colors won't make them go away. And Republicans seemed far more interested in protecting Trump's 2020 re-election than in holding accountable for the job he was elected to do in 2016.

Here to discuss all the latest news, Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. Welcome.

First, let's start with the biggest news of the week, and I don't mean the foreign dirt controversy, but I'll get to that. I think the biggest news of the week was this letter signed by 600 companies, including some of the biggest retailers, like Walmart and Costco, begging the President to back down on Chinese tariffs. How seriously should he be heeding that warning?

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Well, I think he should take it seriously, but at the same time, first off, this is a fight we should've had 20 or 30 years ago, I want to be clear about that, because as China was more of a growing economy and we had less investment there. But there is so much that is done by the Chinese government, by Chinese companies to steal our intellectual property and everything, we have to stand up for it.

So I think it's important for these retailers to send a message, to be clear about what impact this is having. But I don't think that should be the thing at that basically turns off the tariffs and have us back down. Because I think we're in this deep enough now that we have to win. And by winning, I don't mean China loses everything. I just mean getting to a fair trade situation where we can actually treat each other as companions, I guess, in trading and not so much as adversaries.

CUPP: But do you think that Trump is at risk of losing some voters over these tariffs, especially in states where agriculture might be hit real hard?

KINZINGER: Yes. I think there's always a risk and I think the President knew that when he did it. But like in my district, for instance, I have a lot of agriculture. We've been hit really hard with these rains and flooding. That's going to have as much of an impact as anything. But they are concerned about tariffs.

But I'll tell you what's interesting. I see as these farmers are saying, yes, it's hurting my bottom line, yes, I don't like what's going on just from a bottom line perspective but we're with the President and he needs to win. Where I got a little nervous is when you start talking into Mexico and Europe and other things. That's where I think the President runs the risk of losing these farmers.

When it comes to like china, I think they're on board, and even at their own bottom line right now.

CUPP: OK. So let's go to the foreign dirt story. I want to ask you a real simple question. Is what the President suggested, taking oppo research from a foreign national, legal or illegal?

KINZINGER: I think it's illegal. And if it's not, then we need to, for sure, define it as illegal. The question is, you know, the election law was a thing of value. My understanding is that is illegal to take information like that. But, again, if it's not, we need to put that in law.

There is no point at which -- and this isn't about -- I don't want to like look back and say these people did it and then these people. I just think, OK, right now is a great time for to us to just say, OK, going forward, nobody takes information from a foreign government. Because, listen, just from outside of what's right and wrong, they could shop the same kind of information to your opponent. But beyond that, we can't be a country influenced by another country in our election period. CUPP: But Trump has faced very little rebuke from Republicans in Congress over saying his FBI Director was wrong, over saying he'd take that illegal information. Senator Blackburn, in fact, blocked a bipartisan foreign interference bill. She was applauded for it on Twitter by Trump. So when are Republicans going to step in and make sure that this doesn't happen?

KINZINGER: Well, you know, look, if you talk to all of them kind of privately, we all agree. Here's the problem --

CUPP: What good does privately do? I'm so -- and this is not against you, but I am so sick of hearing Republicans talk privately say one thing. What good does that do anyone?

KINZINGER: I agree. But here's the issue I'm getting at. So, every day, there's kind of a new outrage. And about 70 percent of them aren't any Trump's doing. I think it's stuff taken out of context. When it came to this information, for instance, I took a little bit of time to actually see all these said in context before I made a comment on it. And my comment is you can't take foreign information from a foreign government.

So, yes, look, I wish people would speak out more about stuff this. I don't think -- honestly, I don't the President was soliciting foreign information. I think he was maybe being a little cute by half on this, but, at the point, realized that this is an outrage.

[18:10:02]

You should simply say what's obvious to all of us, you can't take information from a foreign government.

CUPP: So your colleague in the House, Justin Amash, as you know, publicly laid out his case for why he thinks the President committed impeachable offenses. Since then, he's resigned from the Freedom caucus. He's down 16 points in his Republican primary. Kevin McCarthy slammed him by saying he questions whether he's a Republican anymore. I'm sure you know Justin Amash is one of the most conservative voting records in the House. Is the new definition of Republican just undying loyalty to whatever Trump says or does?

KINZINGER: No, I don't think so. I never really considered Justin Amash a Republican in the beginning, and I'll explain why. I like him personally, right? But politically, he's a libertarian.

Now, some libertarian views are welcome in the Republican Party, but he's a total libertarian who wants a smaller military, votes against military budgets, votes against pro-Israel stuff, every, you know, basically, anti- genocide resolution we come up, he votes against every budget. So he never votes, like me.

Now, if you don't consider me a Republican, that's one thing. But I've never really considered him. I think he's a libertarian masquerading as a Republican.

But that said, again, I like him personally. I'm just saying on the politics, I never really considered him that way anyway.

CUPP: Congressman Kinzinger, thanks, as always, for your time tonight. I appreciate it.

KINZINGER: You bet. See you.

CUPP: The President's ABC interview caused some angst for the White House just in time for the Press Secretary to announce her departure. I'll look at that curious series of media events.

And then as the 2020 campaign heats up, I'll speak to my candidate of the week about his plan not to leave the middle behind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

CUPP: The three words just roll off the tongue like the start of a Wes Anderson film, Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Her exit after two years as Trump's Press Secretary at the end of the month has many in the media wondering what lies in store for them or rather what lies are in stored for them from the next Press Secretary.

Regardless of which, the best people Trump puts in that job, it's safe to say, no one in recent memory has had a bigger impact on the way the press and the White House interact than Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

Joining me now to discuss, our CNN Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter, and Republican Strategist, John Brabender.

Brian, you wrote about Sanders' legacy, which you said was the death of the press briefing. Why do you think that matters so much?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think it matters. It's a bit of symbol, as well as a practical example of government going dark. The public deserves as much transparency as possible. I would say that is true in every administration, Republican or Democrat. We always deserve more transparency than we get.

But to end the daily briefing completely, it's been 96 days, is a symbol of closing up shop and not providing access. I know the White House says Trump Tweets a lot, he answers questions from reporters a lot. It's not the same as having a spokesperson address the public every day.

CUPP: John, from a P.R. point of view or from a comms point of view, we like to point out how often Sarah lied on behalf of the President. But the job description was, is, will always be the same. What should we expect from the next person?

JOHN BRABENDER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, I don't think anything is going to change. But what we have to understand is what has changed is the game. There is no judge anymore or a referee. The press is now a player on the field.

As a strategist and media consultant, I look at this and I look at it as whether I'm a Democrat or Republican, it is much more adversarial and a lot of this has to do with how the news is now reported. If you're a millennial, if you're generation Z particularly, you're going online, you're going to Twitter, you're going to all these places now.

And so what's driving the news cycles are Tweets and re-Tweets and FaceTime on T.V. and all these things, and it has to make them change. I would argue that the press briefing has become totally obsolete.

CUPP: But is it a chicken or the egg what's driving the news cycle or the President's Tweets, because that's where we hear from him most often? If he were talking to the press more, maybe his press briefings or the White House press briefings would be more part of the news cycle.

STELTER: Yes, maybe in a world where there's more news, more information and more confusion. We should actually have more briefings, not fewer, not just from the White House but from the Pentagon, the State Department and other departments. They're valuable in a practical.

They're also a symbol of access and availability.

CUPP: I agree, more P.A.s

STELTER: Unfortunately, Sanders, she didn't have any credibility left, especially after the Mueller report, where she confirmed that she was making things up from the podium. She had no credibility left.

So the bar has been set this low. It can only go up from here.

CUPP: I want to get you both on the Stephanopoulos interview. We've already talked about what Trump said, why it was so alarming, everyone is talking about that, but what -- about how the whole thing came about. I am fascinated by that.

Looking at it from a media perspective, George Stephanopoulos got 30 hours with the President. He traveled with him. He went to Iowa. He was in the Oval Office. That is a lot of access.

STELTER: I think it's part of a re-election strategy. In fact, he has this rally coming up on Tuesday.

CUPP: But from Stephanopoulos' point of view, do you think he made the most of that access?

STELTER: I think he provided the President with a microphone, let him talk and talk and talk, challenge him at the appropriate times and the public is better off for that.

CUPP: What do you think?

BRABENDER: Look, first of all, whoever has the power of edit wins. So if you shoot 30 hours, you get to pick what's going to be out there, so you --

CUPP: Right.

BRABENDER: Second of all, people out there are saying, I really want more Donald Trump. So why they had to do this, I don't know. If I was at the White House, I would have said, yes, let's give him access. You know what, ten minutes of exclusive access is a lot of time with a president.

CUPP: This is a variation on an argument I'm hearing mostly from folks on Fox. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Setting aside the question of why you would have George Stephanopoulos standing over the President in the Oval Office, I don't know who approved that, but what about this notion of accepting foreign intel about an opponent? Is that a risk for President Trump getting pulled back into Mueller? Again, why he was put in that situation is beyond me.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm not here to defend Trump's interview with Stephanopoulos.

[18:20:00]

Why would you have given an interview to Stephanopoulos in the first place is a very good question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: I mean, this is so interesting because it's a -- you're saying maybe ten minutes would have been sufficient, not 30 hours. They're saying, why even let him in a room with George Stephanopoulos, which is odd, because it seems to me an admission that Stephanopoulos is smarter than Trump and so Trump was sort of in a risky position there.

BRABENDER: No. It's like being stuck in an elevator with somebody for 30 hours. You're going to find something that they don't want you to know. I'm just telling you.

CUPP: I don't think that's what they were saying.

BRABENDER: The truth that matter is Trump is fine doing an interview. It's just that giving them a chance (ph). I remember Stephanopoulos calling me after he'd done an interview with one of my clients. You're going to be mad. It was a bad interview. And I said, what happened?

He goes, I kept asking questions and they kept answering. That was on me. That wasn't on my client. That wasn't on Stephanopoulos. That was on me for allowing unlimited access because that's the world we now live in, that it's stump the speaker more than let's find the truth.

STELTER: I get it from a (INAUDIBLE). But for advocates for the public and the public's right to know, if you're arguing against information and interviews, then you're losing. And this White House has -- often has been losing.

I think what those hosts on Fox were saying, the subtext was just stay on Fox, just stay with your friends, just talk to your friends, it's working for you. Obviously, it's not working for him from an approval rating standpoint but it's a safe space.

And that's what he did at the end of the week. He called into his safe space for a 50-minute long interview. We're going to see a lot more of that and only once in a while will we see these more challenging interviews.

CUPP: Interesting, and thank you both so much for having this conversation, John and Brian.

Don't miss reliable sources tomorrow. Brian will be joined by 2020 candidate Andrew Yang. And I'll be joined by my candidate of the week next. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

CUPP: I want to see if you agree with this premise. It increasingly feels like the Democratic Party has pushed moderates and blue dog Democrats out in favor of far-left progressives. Even Democrats who say they're moderates, well, they still sound a lot like progressives. Joe Biden is finding this out the hard way, testing and retesting that line on every issue from criminal justice reform to abortion.

Well, another Democrat in the 2020 field is also trying to capture the moderate Democratic voter with a progressive twist. Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio wants to reach blue collar, Midwestern and rust belt voters, including tens of thousands of people who voted for Trump in 2016.

He's my candidate of the week. Thank you, Congressman Ryan, for joining me tonight.

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: - Thank you.

CUPP: OK. I want to hear it from your mouth, because the press has positioned you as a moderate. Is that how you see yourself?

RYAN: I mean, I'm not going to get into labels. I consider myself a progressive, but my focus is on economics. My focus is on the working class people, the forgotten communities, the forgotten workers who haven't been able to make ends meet and how do we bust up this system where G.M. gets a bailout, G.M. gets a tax cut, banks get the bailout, banks get the tax cut and meanwhile the workers get the shaft.

That to me is what it means to be an American in fighting for the working class forgotten people. I don't know where that falls in the political spectrum these days but that's what my focus is.

CUPP: And I get that. But for voters, labels matter. And, you know, campaigning and running a presidential campaign, labels do either help or hurt you. But as I look down at your positions, you know, I'm not sure what they say. Just shorthanding it, you're not a fan of tax cuts, you support a single-payer healthcare system, you've swung left on guns and abortion in recent years. So how do you think you differ from your 23 other Democratic opponents in this race?

RYAN: I differ because the last 45 years of my life I spent at the epicenter of deindustrialization. I've represented a congressional district that is the epicenter of infant mortality rate, epicenter of the opiate crisis in the United States, epicenter of the healthcare crisis in the United States, epicenter of the mental health crisis in the United States.

So I know what working class families are going through. I know what the working poor are going through, and I believe this election, the Democrats want to nominate somebody and must nominate somebody who deeply understands economic struggles that people are going through, S.E. or we're not going to be able to beat Donald Trump.

And if people are supportive of that idea of this robust economic message, they need to go to Tim Ryan for America.com and support this campaign because that's what I'm going to be talking about.

CUPP: I get that and I think that's absolutely right. And this is the point I'm trying to make. I get the feeling that people like to use the term moderate now just to refer to sort of a rhetorical style. Biden. Biden speaks the language of blue-collar vote as. And I know you do too from a very authentic place.

And I want people to know actually you delivered one of the best lines I have ever heard in politics on my show, maybe a year ago and maybe you've used it again. But you said Democrats need to reach the voters who shower after work, not before. Do you think the ability to just not condescend to blue-collar voters, is that what we mean by moderate now?

RYAN: I think you're right. I think sometimes those ideas get conflated into that, about being for the blue collar, for people that take a shower after work, for people that work with their hands. And what I want to say to Democrats is I think the perception is that we're a coastal party, the perception is that we're an Ivy League party and the reality of it is there's tent cities of homeless people in L.A. and there's waitresses who can't make ends meet in New York and there's people in the fishing industry in the Gulf of Mexico who can't make it and there's farmers in Iowa who haven't made a profit in five years.

So talking to all of those people and pulling that FDR new deal coalition back together is how you're going to be able to stop the things happening like we started this interview about bailouts for corporations and concentration of wealth. That only happens when the farmers and the fishermen and factory workers and waitresses and the people who are homeless all come together around an economic idea. I can bring that.

And you know what happens, S.E. if I'm the nominee? The center of gravity in the Democratic Party shifts from the coast to Middle America, to Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio. And that changes everything because then we can go after Senate races in Kentucky, Senate races in South Carolina where we have good candidates running. I mean, we could start flipping this political system upside down.

[18:30:00] CUPP: Well, yes, and that's why I think this lane is so important because I don't believe the Green New Deal and socialism and abolishing ICE are the ways to beat Donald Trump. I think those are the ways to lose to him. Are you going to take that message to your Democratic opponents on the debate stage? Are you going to say, "Socialism isn't the answer. The green new deal goes too far. Abolishing ICE is crazy.

RYAN: Yes, to a certain extent, I mean, I'm for A, green new deal, because we've got to deal with climate, but we also need to make sure that we are aligning environmental incentives with financial incentives and get the power of the free market to work to help solve this problem when you're talking about the green new deal and reversing climate change.

We've got to figure out how we come together. It can't be all government or no government, it's got to be the blend of the public private partnerships, like when we went to the moon, like when we built the greatest middle class in the history of the world.

We had private sector going strong and we had workers that were well represented in unions who are getting cut in on the deal and the next thing you know we've got the greatest middle class ever. So I want to bring us back to everybody's at the table, everybody has value and we can actually create a system, if the government gets working properly where everybody can win. And again, Tim Ryan for america.com, S.E., this is happening. I'm on this debate stage because this economic message is resonating with people.

CUPP: Well, Congressman and presidential candidate, Tim Ryan, I thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. I really appreciate it.

RYAN: Thanks, S.E.

CUPP: Well, they couldn't play nice forever. The 2020 Democratic candidates are starting to turn up the heat on each other and that's leading some voters to fear a 2016 repeat. Valid? I'll discuss that next. And a little later, I'll speak to the only Republican bold enough to challenge the President on the campaign trail at least.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:37] CUPP: In THE RED FILE tonight, it didn't take long for the 2020 Democratic candidates to turn on one another. It's been relatively polite so far, but pointed nonetheless. Here's former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders squaring off on socialism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I and other progressives will face massive attacks from those who attempt to use the word socialism as a slur.

FORMER GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D-CO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Democrats must say loudly and clearly that we are not socialist. If we do not, we will end up helping to reelect the worst president in this country's history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Candidates have also tried their hand at maligning front runner Joe Biden, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Democrats can no more turn the clock back to the 1990s then Republicans can return us to the 1950s and we should not try.

REP. BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot return to the past. We cannot simply be about defeating Donald Trump.

WILLIAM GEIST, MSNBC, ANCHOR: Is Joe Biden a return to the past?

O'ROURKE: He is and that cannot be who we are going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Well, here was Biden's response to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Folks, I'm not naive. Some say that this an old fashioned way of doing things. Well, if it's old fashioned way of doing things, we're in real trouble, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: This is obviously to be expected in a primary with 23 candidates, but some are worried that this will only produce a battered and unpopular nominee when it's all over. With me now as former Florida gubernatorial candidate and CNN Political Commentator, Andrew Gillum.

Welcome, Andrew.

There was some good reporting from Dave Weigel out of Iowa this week. I want to read you what one voter said to him. She said, "I was a Bernie supporter last time, but I do not appreciate the negativity and only Bernie attitude. I'm afraid that we're going to wind up where we were last time, people not coming out to vote if their candidate's not the nominee." What's your take on that and are her concerns justified?

ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, S.E., those are not my concerns. Those are not my fears. We are still early in this primary process. CUPP: Yes.

GILLUM: But even in the polls that that we've seen at this point, what Democrats are united behind even if they're not united behind the same candidate, were united behind defeating Donald Trump. And so I got to tell you, I have my favorites, but it almost doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is. That Democrats, I believe, are going to unite behind each other beginning with the candidates, but I think the rank and file want to win.

CUPP: Well, in particular the anti Biden rhetoric that he's out of touch or stuck in the past which is another way of calling him old. He's currently the front runner. If he's the nominee, do you think that that kind of friendly fire may really weaken him and in fact give Trump some ammo?

GILLUM: Well, I mean, he's the current front runner.

CUPP: Yes.

GILLUM: And I don't know if that front runner status will last.

CUPP: Sure.

GILLUM: We have our first debate like in two weeks beginning down here in Florida and then we'll be together in Detroit for the CNN debate. So what I would have to say, excuse me about that, is that this race has a long time to go. And I have to tell you, every Democrat that I talked to, regardless of their own individual personal favorites, they want to beat Donald Trump and they're fired up about it.

CUPP: Yes. But do you worry that the criticism of Biden that he's out of touch or maybe too old for this, do you worry that that's giving Trump some really good ammunition to use either in the primary or if he's the eventual nominee? Do you think that's fair criticism?

GILLUM: Well, I think Donald Trump will come up with his own ammunition. And it's quite frankly didn't even matter what we say about ourselves. Donald Trump is going to continue to spout off the rhetoric that he has. What I hope we don't do is that we as Democrats don't begin to fight this domination on Republican tropes. And on Republican turf.

We need to define this race for ourselves. Talk about the ideas that are going to help people get access to healthcare, a wage that they can live on, a family leave and the like. If we hoist this race as a response, I call them response to Donald Trump, then we've already lost. We've got to play on our own field here.

CUPP: So what about some of those ideas? Do you worry that a primary that seems fairly obsessed with whether socialism is a good or a bad thing will be a problem for the party in general?

[18:40:01] GILLUM: Yes. So let me just say, first of all, if we are debating terminology then we've already lost. I am not interested in anybody defining one definition of a term over another. If what voters are walking away with it is a debate around terminology, then that means they're not hearing us on the policy. They're not hearing what it is that we're going to do for their lives and make their lives better.

And so my cautionary note with all respect to those out there in the middle of that back and forth is forget the terminology. Let's talk about how it is these topics, these issues are going to affect everyday people.

CUPP: So Bernie Sanders has faced a lot of criticism for stirring divisions in the party back in 2016. But also again now he hired a left wing columnist, attack dog to trash the Democratic opponents for him. Do you worry that Sanders is putting himself before the party, before this idea that you speak of unifying the party coming together?

GILLUM: I we have not seen any evidence that if Senator Sanders doesn't get the nomination that he won't be fully out there embracing, endorsing, supporting whoever does get the nomination. We're in a nomination battle. There's going to be a competition of ideas, supporters are going to feel strongly about the candidate that they want to win.

But I'll return to the earlier point in our conversation which is mostly Democrats want to win. If this is a Bernie or Biden or bust or a Harris or bust. Then, quite frankly we got bigger worries out there, if that's the concern. I think that this is going to be a party that ultimately unites behind the candidate who makes his way through the nomination.

CUPP: Andrew Gillum, always great to get your perspective. I appreciate it. Thank you.

GILLUM: Thanks, S.E.

CUPP: OK. Some have called it quixotic, others very necessary. The primary challenger to Donald Trump joins me next.

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[18:45:54] CUPP: Pat Buchanan, Ted Kennedy, Pete McCloskey, Eugene McCarthy, Estes Kefauver, what do they all have in common? They're men who did not become president despite mounting primary challenges to incumbent Presidents. It's a hard thing to do but also one could argue an important thing to do especially when a sitting president is deeply unpopular.

Well, there's only one guy who's up to the task this go around at least so far and though he faces an uphill battle, he isn't all that bothered. Joining me now, 2020 Republican primary challenger to President Trump, former Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld. Welcome.

FORMER GOVERNOR WILLIAM WELD (R-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, S.E.

CUPP: I want to read you maybe, you've seen it, I don't know, I didn't ask you before. But I want to read you a letter to the editor that appeared this week in the Deseret News, which is a Utah paper.

WELD: I know it well.

CUPP: Carol Schermerhorn of Ogden, Utah writes, "There are currently two candidates running for the Republican nomination; President Trump and Bill Weld. Trump because of his outrageous actions and comments, gets copious notice in the news media across the political spectrum. Bill Weld, although he is a more honest, honorable and qualified candidate, much more fit to be president than Trump gets a mere mention every now and again even though he works diligently to campaign. It's well past time that Bill Weld should get the attention he deserves."

Look, it's no small deal that you're mounting a primary challenge to the sitting President of the United States. Do you think you're getting the attention you deserve?

WELD: Yes, I'm getting plenty of attention and I might point out that all five of those presidents that those five candidates ran against lost. So making a primary challenge against the president historically has had an impact and I do predict that I will win the Utah primary against President Trump who received exactly 14% of the vote in the Utah primary.

CUPP: Well, with Carol in your corner.

WELD: Yes, absolutely.

CUPP: She should run your Utah operation. Well, others like Larry Hogan and John Kasich have opted not to do this, why do you think given Trump's weaknesses others haven't gone where you're going?

WELD: I think people think nothing is going to change and that's wrong. I've been around long enough to know that six months is an eternity in national politics and I think it's going to sink in on people that this is a president who thinks the law does not apply to him and who's a stranger to the truth and they're not going to like that at the end of the day.

CUPP: So to those who would say, "This has no shot. This isn't going anywhere." You say, "No, this is real."

WELD: This is real and the response I get on the ground in New Hampshire and everywhere else, frankly, is that the President is not popular in the hinterlands. Maybe he's very popular with the Republican state committees because they're the Trump Organization.

CUPP: Right.

WELD: But my strategy is not to try to charm them. It's to enlarge the electorate, get those millennials, suburban women, gen Xers voting and then you're going to have a vote that's very different than what you see in the polls today.

CUPP: He says he's doing great in the polls. That's questionable, but you're saying on the ground when you go talk to people in places like New Hampshire, you're hearing it firsthand.

WELD: I shook 240 hands in three diners in New Hampshire a couple of weeks ago. I didn't encounter one Trump voter and they weren't acting either.

CUPP: So you're up against some pretty serious headwinds, history being among them. But another reason people don't primary sitting presidents often is that going against the infrastructure of the party, in this case the RNC, all of that money and resources, et cetera, that's tough. Are you feeling that challenge, that obstacle?

WELD: Not so much. The Republican state parties often are quite weak. They are just a reflection of, in fact, they are the Trump committees in each state. The New Hampshire Republican Party, for example, is a few Trump loyalists, but that State is 65-35 pro choice on reproductive rights. It's not a hard boiled state at all.

CUPP: Yes.

WELD: It's a New England Republican state and I am to make it mine.

CUPP: I, as a New Englander, I know what you mean. So speaking of New Hampshire, how important is that State for your strategy?

WELD: I think it's very important first to the nation primary is the source of a lot of New Hampshire's clout in this country.

CUPP: Right.

[18:50:05] WELD: And the Trump folks tried to abolish the primary this year. That fell with a great huge thud as it should have, but I'm going to campaign hard elsewhere in New England and in the Mid- Atlantic States. Next stop, California or Oregon and Washington, then the Intermountain West, including Utah, where I spend a lot of time in the last cycle, the South West and last stop will be the Rust Belt. A lot of those states, the Republicans haven't done so well since Mr. Trump surprised by winning them.

CUPP: If don't win New Hampshire, for example, you're going to continue on through all of those early states.

WELD: Oh, absolutely. And the geographic push would be what I indicated going down New England to the Mid-Atlantic states, lots of votes there. Lots of votes in California ...

CUPP: Yes. Early state now, yes.

WELD: ... which is an early primary. They've moved to march.

CUPP: Yes.

WELD: And California and Donald Trump agree on precisely nothing and I've spent a lot of time out there with Pete Wilson. I was his national finance chair when he ran for president, close with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

CUPP: Yes.

WEINTRAUB: A lot of states I have ancient governor networks from old friends.

CUPP: I'm sure you do. I know the Vermont Governor has nice things to say about you as well.

WELD: Right.

CUPP: Governor Weld, thanks so much for joining me.

WELD: Thanks, S.E.

CUPP: I appreciate it.

WELD: It's a pleasure.

CUPP: OK. We'll be right back.

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[18:54:40] CUPP: As we try to reduce our use of single use plastics, summer going to strange lengths to make us more environmentally mindful. In Italy, the town of Capri is back banning visitors from bringing non-recyclable plastic items onto the island. No bags, plastic cutlery, plates, et cetera, even your plastic water bottle will be prohibited soon with the island handing out free water flasks this summer.

Cities like San Francisco have imposed a ban on plastic bags including those bags you use for your produce in grocery stores because putting your fruits and vegetables directly onto bacteria-covered shopping carts and dirty check out conveyor belts, well that's a much better idea. But in Canada, one supermarket is really turning the screws on plastic-using consumers.

If you don't come into East West Market in Vancouver with your own reusable bag, you may leave with one of these. These bags like Into The Weird Adult Video emporium, the Colon Care Co-Op and Dr. Toes Wart Ointment wholesale are meant to shame its own customers away from using plastic bags by giving them plastic bags, all while creating a PR blitz that will almost certainly incentivize teenagers and adult mischief makers alike to rush out and get their own wart ointment and sex store bags from the supermarket.

In fact, East West Market owner David Lee Quinn told The Guardian newspaper, quote, some of the customers want to collect them because they love the idea of it. I'm not sure this one's all that well thought out. OK. Before I go, a programming quick note, tomorrow night at 9:00, see what happens when victims and offenders of violent crimes meet face-to-face on the new CNN Original Series, "The Redemption Project" with Van Jones. That's followed by "United Shades Of America" with W. Kamau Bell Sunday at 10:00 pm. "VAN JONES SHOW" is next. Stick around.