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Cuomo Prime Time
Biden Fires Back At Sen. Booker: "Cory Should Apologize"; Elizabeth Warren Riding A Surge In Poll Numbers; 46 States Now Recognize Juneteenth As A Holiday. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 19, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00] SAM DONALDSON, FORMER REPORTER & NEWS ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: We lost the give and take of a Press Secretary having to come clean whenever he or she can. When they can't, they can say no comment.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Sam Donaldson, the relentless pursuiter of the truth, thank you for being with us tonight. I appreciate it.
DONALDSON: My pleasure.
BERMAN: The news continues. So, I hand it over to Chris Cuomo. CUOMO PRIME TIME starts now.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thanks John. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Frontrunner Joe Biden taking on opponents who've been taking him on for recalling the, quote, civility of two notorious segregationists. Wait until you hear what the former VP said in response.
And Senator Bernie Sanders is here tonight. He's in the thick of this fight for all the policy plans. The real plan he needs is how does he beat Trump? Let's see if the Senator has an answer you like. And what does he think of Biden's battles with his past, and Elizabeth Warren catching up to him in the present polling?
We also have a Member of the House Judiciary Committee here tonight, fresh off the Hope Hicks' testimony, and the first hearing on reparations in 30 years. Let's get word from inside the rooms where things happened.
What do you say? Let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CUOMO: All right, so Joe Biden has gone from offense to defense, all right? He's now taking on the rivals who were going after him for recalling the, quote, civility of two former segregationist Senators. Tonight, here's what Biden had to say to them.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, thanks guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to apologize like Cory Booker has called for?
JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Apologize for what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cory Booker's called for it. He's asking you to apologize.
BIDEN: Cory should apologize. He knows better. There's not a racist bone in my body. I've been involved in Civil Rights my whole career. Period! Period! Period!
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CUOMO: Now, Senator Sanders said earlier today that he agreed with Cory Booker that Biden should apologize. We'll get to that. But my big question for the Senator is about raw politics of persuasion and winning.
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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.
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CUOMO: Senator Bernie Sanders, welcome back to PRIME TIME.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My pleasure.
CUOMO: You saw the rally last night. You see the big crowd. You see the enthusiasm. You heard the message. It's more of the same, "Us versus Them. Beware people like Bernie Sanders, and these people on the Left, they're out to get you."
How can you beat President Trump?
SANDERS: Well I think that Trump is very vulnerable.
But I think the best way that we beat him is run a campaign of energy and enthusiasm, which brings millions of young people into the political process, brings working people who have given up on politics into the political process and, by the way, reaches out to some of Trump's supporters who have learned that he is a pathological liar, and what he told them in 2016 that he was going to stand with the working class was just not true.
So, I think we need to confront Trump with a progressive alternative that understands, Chris, that the working class of this country, for the last 45 years, has been decimated.
In the last 30 years alone, we've seen the Top 1 Percent seen their wealth go up by $21 trillion-- CUOMO: Right.
SANDERS: --while the wealth of the bottom half actually declined. And real wages today are no better, despite all of the technology and productivity than they were 45 years ago.
The working class understands that. We have got to give them and the young people whose standard of living is going to be lower than their parents a reason to vote, a reason--
CUOMO: OK.
SANDERS: --to understand why politics is so important.
CUOMO: So, how do you get them back?
Let's talk about the how here a little bit, Senator, because the push from the Trump campaign would be "Yes, that's why I'm the one who reached out to them, Sanders. I'm the one who connected with those people who you on the Left forgot. You took them for granted. That's why they voted for me in numbers that Hillary Clinton could have only dreamed of in that general election. You can't have them back. They're mine."
SANDERS: Well I think the way to bring them back is to give them an agenda that speaks to their needs, all right? Right now, you have millions of people in this country working for starvation wages, wages of $9, $10, a 11 bucks an hour.
I believe, and most Americans believe, that if you work 40 hours a week, you should not be living in poverty. Raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, and get those people who increasingly are fighting for $15 an hour into the political process.
Chris, we are the only major country on Earth that doesn't guarantee healthcare to all people. And the American people understand they're being ripped off big-time by the drug companies.
What our candidates have got to do and what I will do is tell the drug companies, "Guess what? We ain't going to subsidize you anymore. You are going to lower your prices by 50 percent, so the American people can afford the medicine they need," which, by the way, is exactly the price being paid all over the world.
CUOMO: So--
[21:05:00] SANDERS: We're going to move to a Medicare-for-All program. In other words, Chris, you're going to give people an agenda that they can--
CUOMO: Right.
SANDERS: --latch onto that they can feel good about, and participate in the election.
CUOMO: I get the plan. But as we all know, and I know that you don't like this part of the process, and many policy purists don't, but there's got to be a connection with the messenger as well. And it's got to be about raw persuasion.
And, let's be honest, this President's gotten pretty far on a set of ideas that weren't exactly novel, other than building a wall. So, let's go to a moment that will really separate the winner from the loser.
You're on stage with the President, and he's looking at you, and he's saying, "This guy, Bernie Sanders, he's in the inside forever." He's hitting you with socialists every time you give any kind of answer. He's taking personal shots at you. He's bringing up your family, calling you Crazy Bernie.
What does Bernie Sanders say on the stage because you can't ignore it?
SANDERS: No. You cannot ignore it.
And I think the point to be made to Trump is that, in fact, we have a society right now, in many respects, which is socialistic in the sense that the federal government spends a lot of money helping certain kinds of people.
The problem is we get billions of dollars in subsidies to the pharmaceutical industry, to the fossil fuel industry. In fact, they - Trump himself, in his real estate company, received massive amounts of subsidies and tax breaks.
So, what we say in response to the charge of socialism is you got socialism right now. Martin Luther King Jr. said we have socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor. And I agree with that.
So, what I believe in is a socialism that works for the working families of this country. And Trump believes in a socialism for Wall Street, for the drug companies, and for the big-money interests.
CUOMO: And, at the end of the day, you know, your concern has to be, of course, look, you want the best ideas to win. But we also know that that's not always how it happens.
You know, one of the most indicative metrics of who wins Presidential elections, over the last bunch of cycles, has been the "Who do you want to have a beer with contest?"
Is that something that you think that you would be able to focus on personally that if he's going to talk about me, I'm going to have to go toe to toe, and I'm going to have to win the messenger contest, and not just the message?
SANDERS: Well, I - I think, yes. The answer to that is yes. But I think something else, Chris, and that we have got to be honest with the American people in a way that most politicians and the media is not honest.
So, how does it happen that after 45 years, after all of the speeches, and the legislation, and the party platforms, how does it happen that the average worker today is no better off than he or she was 45 years ago?
And then, we have got to look at who really controls the economy, and the political life of this country. This is something we don't do very often.
I am prepared to do that, and to tell the American people that Bernie Sanders alone as President cannot do all of the things that has to be done that together, and - and the message of our campaign is us, not me, that we need millions of people to stand up to tell Wall Street, "We're going to end their greed and break up the large banks. We're going to take on the insurance companies, the drug companies, the fossil fuel industry, the military-industrial complex." No President alone can do that.
And what makes my campaign different, I believe, than any other campaign is that I understand that at the end of the day, if we're going to improve life for the working people, for their children, for the elderly, we need a political revolution.
Now, I know that not everybody agrees with me. And I get - people get a little bit nervous about that. But if you are serious about bringing change, why are we the only major country not to guarantee healthcare to all?
It is the power of the insurance companies and the drug companies. And if we're not prepared to take them on, then all of the speeches and all of the plans don't mean anything.
CUOMO: All right, so--
SANDERS: And I am prepared to take them on.
CUOMO: So, you're going to have to ask for approval twice. If you make it to the general, well that's what we're talking about right now.
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: Before you got to make it out of the primary, Elizabeth Warren--
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: --in current polling is catching up to you. You got her, Biden, and you are now at the top of the polls. Let's talk about each of them. What do you think the reason is that Elizabeth Warren is catching up to you in polls? Do you believe--
SANDERS: No, I'm--
CUOMO: --that people see her as the more electable version of Bernie Sanders?
SANDERS: Well, you know, I think we are running against a lot of problems.
I think that there are a certain number of people who would like to see a woman elected, and I understand that. There are people, who would like to see somebody who is younger, and I understand that also. There are a lot of factors out there.
Elizabeth, I - is a friend of mine. I think she's running a good campaign. But at the end of the day, Chris, whether it's Biden or Warren, Elizabeth Warren, or anybody else, what I believe is that, in fact, I am the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump, and I think some of the polling shows that.
[21:10:00] I believe that our campaign can win in the states we have got to win. And that is Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida. And in all of those states, the polling has me at this point ahead, and I think that numbers will only grow in the months ahead.
CUOMO: True. The - the tweet you had today about this situation, as you said, "The cat's out of the bag. Corporate wing of the Democratic Party is publicly anybody but Bernie."
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: "They know our progressive agenda of Medicare-for-All, breaking up big banks, taking on drug companies, and raising wages is the real threat to the billionaire class."
The assertion aside, Elizabeth Warren can't be their poster child then, right?
SANDERS: No.
CUOMO: I mean she's been going after corporate conglomerates in a big way--
SANDERS: No that--
CUOMO: --for a long time.
SANDERS: That tweet was not about Elizabeth Warren at all.
CUOMO: OK.
SANDERS: Not at all. Elizabeth is a friend of mine. And we're going to run, I hope, just simply issue-oriented campaigns.
This was though a very strong statement about a group called Third Way. And you know that Third Way is the corporatist wing of the Democratic Party.
And I am a little bit tired of hearing from these people, and this is not the first time that I've heard about it, and they say, "We will support anybody, except Bernie Sanders."
So, I don't mind taking on all of corporate America, and Trump, and the Republican Party. But I have a question for Third Way.
And that is, if I win the Democratic nomination, I think we got a good shot at that, who are they going to support? Are they going to support Donald Trump or are they going to support Bernie Sanders?
Chris, one of the very first questions that I was asked, when I got into this race, people said "Bernie, if you don't win, will you support another Democratic candidate?" And I said, "Absolutely. I will do everything I can to defeat Donald Trump."
And if that candidate turns out to be a lot more conservative than me, somebody like a Joe Biden or somebody else, I will knock my brains out to see that he or she is elected because I want to defeat Donald Trump.
So, I'm asking this corporate wing of the Democratic Party, a - a - a Wall Street funded group, called Third Way, if I win the nomination are you going to be there with me or you're going to go over to Donald Trump?
CUOMO: We will reach out to them, during this show, see if I can get you an answer in real time. It is a worthy question to be answered by them.
Let me ask you one more quick thing, what happened with Biden. You had said Cory Booker's right. Joe Biden should apologize for saying something nice about segregationist types.
He came back tonight. You heard what he said that it's unfair to make him as anybody who has to apologize for his record on Civil Rights. He was just talking about the fact that he was able to work with them, not that he liked them.
SANDERS: Well--
CUOMO: Do you think he still needs to apologize?
SANDERS: I do. You know, look, we all have to work with people with whom we have very different points of view. I do it every day. But I think to be singing the praises of people who were vicious segregationists is not something that anybody should be talking.
CUOMO: But he was talking about working with them. Is that the same thing as--
SANDERS: Well--
CUOMO: --singing their praises?
SANDERS: --I'm not so sure about that. But that's all.
CUOMO: Senator Sanders, I appreciate your candor, and I appreciate you talking raw politics with me.
I know you like to get into the policies. But at the end of the day, you got to convince people you can beat the person whose job you want to take. So, thank you very much for being on this show. You're always welcome here.
SANDERS: Thank you, Chris. CUOMO: All right, be well Senator Sanders.
So, what's fueling the rise of Elizabeth Warren? You just heard there, Senator Sanders said that tweet today was not about her. It was about this other group within the Democratic Party, OK. So, let's take a look inside the numbers in this really robust battle for the progressive vote within the Democratic Party.
We have a political forecaster here, who is more than his good looks, Harry Enten, what does he see coming, next.
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CUOMO: So, it's not new that Sanders and Warren would be battling for the progressive vote. But it is new that we see a move from Warren. So, let's bring in Harry Enten to help us.
Before we get into the numbers there, because that matters, this Biden thing--
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Sure.
CUOMO: --all right, it was interesting to me to hear Bernie Sanders say, "No, you know what? I'm not giving him a pass on it. He shouldn't have talked about those guys that way. He should still apologize."
How big a deal is Biden's processing of his past?
ENTEN: Look, we have seen a lot of attacks over Joe Biden's past, and it hasn't moved the polling numbers. But what a lot of these Democratic candidates are seeing is that Joe Biden is dominating among African-American voters. And they want to take any bit of that pie that they possibly can.
Now, obviously, they've brought up past votes with Joe Biden, in terms of busing that really have not moved the poll numbers at all, but perhaps this one, this current statement that he just made, they're hoping that that might be able to eat into that support.
I'm not sure that it necessarily will, because Joe Biden has been dominating among African-American voters. He's also been dominating among older voters who, in fact, may remember James Eastland as a Senator from Mississippi. So, I'm a little hesitant to say that anything will move the numbers. But this, to me, is a level above. So, I'm actually interested to see what occurs.
CUOMO: And we'll know soon enough.
ENTEN: We will.
CUOMO: Because there's so much polling going on.
ENTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: So, Warren is making a move up the charts. Is it fair to say she's taking a bite out of Sanders' apple?
ENTEN: Yes. So - so take a look at this. This is a Monmouth University poll. And they have a June, a May, and an April, and take a look at this.
So, in June what we see is that Warren is actually slightly ahead of Bernie Sanders at 15 percent to 14 percent. But look at the movement from Warren. She went from 6 percent in April, 10 percent in May, 15 percent in June.
Look at the trend-line for Bernie, 20 percent in April, 15 percent in May, 14 percent in June. So, what we see there is that as Elizabeth Warren's going up, Bernie Sanders seems to be falling down.
CUOMO: Why?
ENTEN: Why? Well let's take a look here. This is a key thing. So, we've broken this down by Liberal Democrats and moderate to conservatives, and we compare June to May, and what do we see here?
We see Elizabeth Warren jumped up from 14 percent in May to 25 percent in June. But then take a look at the moderate to conservative lane. She hasn't moved at all. In fact, she moved a point down.
So, what she is doing is she is now starting to take the lead among Liberal Democrats, at least according to Monmouth University, and that's the lane that she's dominating right now.
CUOMO: How much of it is about Monmouth versus say Suffolk polls?
ENTEN: Yes, so--
CUOMO: Didn't they have (ph) better numbers for Bernie in that one?
ENTEN: So, right. So, in the Suffolk University poll, which really doesn't have a trend-line, Bernie Sanders was at the same 15 percent, Elizabeth Warren was at 10 percent. Now, depending on the polls, you might find Bernie Sanders a little bit ahead of Elizabeth Warren, or Warren a little bit ahead of Sanders.
But there's no doubt, looking at the aggregate of polls, what you see is that Warren has risen from the mid-single digits back in March to now the mid-double digits now in June, while Bernie Sanders went from the low-20s down to the mid-double digits.
[21:20:00] CUOMO: And you see Joe's staying pretty much flat up there at the top right now. He hasn't seen a real challenge yet. We'll see what happens because everybody's starting to get loved up by the media one by one. Beto, then Kamala, then Buttigieg--
ENTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: --now Warren.
ENTEN: Right.
CUOMO: So, we'll see what that impact is. If you are Bernie Sanders, and you're looking over your shoulder at Warren, why, what are you paying attention to?
ENTEN: Well I think that there are a few things that I would point out that I - that I'd be paying attention to. And - and this, I think, is a rather interesting thing that's going on.
Elizabeth Warren has focused her campaign right on issues. I have the policy plans. I have a policy plan for everything. And this is a Quinnipiac University poll back from April when Warren was starting to rise - rise.
And what did we see? Which candidate do you think has the best policy ideas? Elizabeth Warren was getting 19 percent of that. Now, compare it to which candidate do you think has the best chance of beating Trump, Elizabeth Warren was only at 3 percent of that vote. So, it seems--
CUOMO: How much of that is because they think Trump ate her lunch on the lineage thing?
ENTEN: It could very well be that. And that's something that she's obviously going to have to deal with because right now her rise is mostly because voters are focusing on the fact that she has all these policy plans.
But the fact is if she is not able to convince them that she can beat Donald Trump, if she's not able to reach out to those moderate to conservative voters, just take again, look at this, these are the voters that she needs to win over, moderate to conservatives. And she's, simply put, not doing that right now.
She needs to have a clear trend-line, a movement up with them because this bloc of voters make up about 50 percent of the party, and this bloc also makes up 50 percent, but if you're only rising with 50 percent of the party, and the other 50 percent are flat, and Joe Biden's running away with this lane, then that's more than enough to win the nomination, especially when you have 20-plus candidates.
CUOMO: So, she can hurt Sanders more than she's hurting Biden at this point. You know what? I got to tell you, Harry. You just gave us some great perspective on what Senator Sanders was achieving in his hit with us tonight. If you think about it, what did he do? Forget about policy.
Everybody's got policies. I've got a plan to beat Trump one-on-one, and that's what we need. That was an interesting turn for him. Maybe this poll is why, him not giving Biden a pass when it comes to being nice to segregationists.
ENTEN: That's exactly right.
CUOMO: Maybe that's why.
ENTEN: He - he wants to get in the voters' mindset, "Hey Joe Biden maybe this more moderate guy. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's more electable." I just want to point out one other thing--
CUOMO: Quick, quick.
ENTEN: --very, very quickly, which is the attention paid to the campaign, and this is another key thing for Elizabeth Warren.
What we see is those voters who are paying a lot or some attention, she's doing very, very well, versus Bernie Sanders has the exact different thing going on. Those who are paying a little to no attention, that's where he's doing his best, and that's a real worrisome sign for him going forward.
CUOMO: Harry Enten, handsome genius.
ENTEN: You know what? A handsome genius, but that - two handsome geniuses, right?
CUOMO: No, I will take one. One is good.
All right, so we heard from Joe Biden tonight. He is pushing back on his opponents, all right? He's saying, "No way I'm apologizing for my record on Civil Rights." Is he in the right?
That is the making of a Great Debate with these two, next.
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CUOMO: When you're on top, you take the heat, and Joe Biden is drawing a lot of fire tonight for touting his past work with two segregationist senators. Critics, literally his own opponents, want him to apologize. Based on what the Veep just said, they shouldn't hold their breath.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, thanks guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to apologize like Cory Booker has called for?
BIDEN: Apologize for what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cory Booker's called for it. He's asking you to apologize.
BIDEN: Cory should apologize. He knows better. There's not a racist bone in my body. I've been involved in Civil Rights my whole career. Period! Period! Period!
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CUOMO: Let's use that as the start of tonight's Great Debate.
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TEXT: THE GREAT DEBATE.
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CUOMO: Cenk Uygur, Kayleigh McEnany, great to have you both here.
Cenk, do you buy Biden's push back, "Don't be telling me I have problems with Civil Rights. I've been fighting this fight from the beginning. I said that I remember the civility of working with these guys that I could work with them, not that I like them," is that enough?
CENK UYGUR, CEO & HOST, THE YOUNG TURKS: No, it's not. I think that Joe Biden has a real problem here. He keeps saying that he - he liked working with segregationists, not just on Democratic side.
Let's not forget that he bragged about working with Strom Thurmond, who was a deeply racist Republican who ran for President under the segregationist ticket.
And so, Biden's got to stop bragging about how much he likes racists. And - and I know that that's his calling card. He says, "Well, you know, I'd love to work with the other side," and - but he was also opposed to busing.
He also did the 1994 Crime Bill, and he's proud to have authored that with Strom Thurmond, originally in '91. So, these are pretty disastrous if you're going forward, Democratic or a general election.
CUOMO: Are you being fair to him in context, Cenk?
UYGUR: But on the other hand, I am also worried-- CUOMO: I'm listening to you. And I - I get the points, if we accept your context. He didn't say he loved racists. He said that he remembered--
UYGUR: No.
CUOMO: --being able to work with those guys, even though he didn't agree with what was going on, and it was a statement about how now nobody can work with anybody. And busing, you've heard his answer on that about what it was a different time about, and what he was trying to achieve.
And the '94 bill, you know, that was assault weapons, that was protecting women, and it was a time of fear, and there were a lot of people on both sides of the aisle calling for that, Black and White, by the way, within the Democratic Party.
UYGUR: Yes, Chris, so let's clarify a couple of things. So, some people who voted for the '94 Crime Bill now say they deeply regret it. Joe Biden is not among them. He still says he is proud that he helped to author that.
So, busing, he says he still has the same exact opinion. So, it's very important that he did not change on those issues. And I definitely did not say that he loves racists. I said he loves working with people on the opposite side, including racists, and that's just the fact, because that's what he said.
And - and then what I'm also worried about is that he likes working with Republicans. So, I don't want him working with Mitch McConnell to get more tax cuts for the rich. He just was in a room full of rich donors and promised them "Don't worry. Nothing's going to change, and I'm going to protect you."
I don't want him working with Mitch McConnell to protect the richest people in America. I'm more worried about that than what he did--
CUOMO: Right.
UYGUR: --30, 40 years ago.
CUOMO: All right, I hear you. I hear the arguments.
Now Kayleigh, you may be wondering why am I here. And here's why, because ordinarily this is an opportunity to play to advantage. But I don't think you have the right horse to play to advantage here.
Because we all know Donald Trump can convince people of a lot of things. He's not going to convince people that Joe Biden is more friendly with people with extremist views than he has been. So, does any of this really matter in terms of your campaign?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY, FORMER RNC SPOKESWOMAN: Oh, well we are really proud of the President's record. [21:30:00] And we, you know, as the Democrats right now are arguing
over segregationist comments from Joe Biden, President Trump's just announced the Second Step Act for $88 million for prisoners to re- enter society--
CUOMO: He also just said that he wouldn't change his position on the--
MCENANY: --many of whom were victims of the 1994--
CUOMO: --Central Park Five.
MCENANY: --Crime Bill. He said at the time there were people on both sides of that argument.
CUOMO: No. He said now. We'll leave it at that--
MCENANY: But, you know, you're neglecting, you're--
CUOMO: --he said. Come on!
MCENANY: Chris, you know, you - come - no, well, come on, come on, you, you know, we've been talking about the Central Park Five and racism and all of these things going back to the 2016 election. Problem, American people didn't believe it.
They empowered President Trump to lead, and he passed Criminal Justice Reform. 91 percent of people released - inmates released were Black Americans, historic lows in Black--
CUOMO: First Step Act was a real thing.
MCENANY: --unemployment, historic lows for Black poverty.
This is a President who has won for Black Americans. So, if you guys want to keep bringing up Central Park Five, keep doing it because it didn't work in 2016, certainly won't work in 2020.
CUOMO: Hey, sometimes the truth - the truth may not work--
MCENANY: The Trump record tells the story.
CUOMO: --in a campaign, it doesn't mean it's not the truth, and it shouldn't come out, he shouldn't change his position. I'll never stop talking about it.
But, Cenk, in terms of playing to advantage, you guys making a mistake, eating your own, when Trump is going to say, "Hey, maybe I'm better for those people than their own."
UYGUR: No, first of all, we're in a primary right now, and there's 24 candidates in that race. It's incumbent upon us to pick the best candidate that could actually take it on Trump effectively, the most electable one.
And the most electable one is actually going to be a populist progressive, who says I'm actually going to deliver higher wages and healthcare, all the things that Trump promised you, but was totally lying about.
On the issue of race--
MCENANY: But he did.
UYGUR: --as much as I--
MCENANY: Paychecks are growing at a fastest pace--
UYGUR: No.
MCENANY: --in a decade.
UYGUR: Kayleigh--
MCENANY: You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
UYGUR: --let me finish the point.
MCENANY: Right. But you - you can't just lie--
UYGUR: Hilarious! Hilarious!
MCENANY: --about facts.
UYGUR: Kayleigh, it's hilarious that you--
MCENANY: You can't lie on - on national television.
CUOMO: All right--
UYGUR: Kayleigh, will you let me talk?
MCENANY: About facts.
UYGUR: Or you're going to steamroll?
CUOMO: All right, so Kayleigh, I get your counter.
UYGUR: No.
CUOMO: Cenk, what do you say to her counter?
UYGUR: OK. First of all, it's hilarious that she's trying to claim that she's on the side of facts, when the Washington Post has Donald Trump lying over 10,000 times--
MCENANY: Again, you're not answering about paychecks.
UYGUR: --in 869--
MCENANY: Paychecks--
UYGUR: --days. He's a--
MCENANY: --fastest pace in a decade. UYGUR: --pathological liar. Hey, Kayleigh, he just said the other day that he's going to round up millions of undocumented - undocumented immigrants. Now, you don't--
MCENANY: What about paychecks?
UYGUR: Kayleigh, let me finish.
MCENANY: You literally just said. Defend your statement.
UYGUR: Let me finish.
MCENANY: Cenk, you literally said paychecks are not growing up. Defend that.
UYGUR: Hush up. Hush up.
CUOMO: All right, all right, hold on.
UYGUR: You love to filibuster.
MCENANY: Don't tell me to hush.
CUOMO: Nobody hushes anybody on the show.
UYGUR: You love to filibuster.
MCENANY: Don't tell me to hush.
CUOMO: Hold on, hold on, guys, easy.
MCENANY: You don't have footnotes to your facts.
CUOMO: What I'm - what I'm - what I'm saying is this.
MCENANY: So, it's a problem.
CUOMO: Cenk, deal with this specific criticism.
UYGUR: OK.
CUOMO: Do you believe this President has been better for wages in those communities than was the case prior?
UYGUR: Absolutely not. If you adjust for inflation, wages are absolutely flat. What he did - the only thing he did was deliver for the rich. The only thing he accomplished was tax cuts for the rich. And the - the average American got--
MCENANY: False.
UYGUR: --nothing, absolutely nothing. If you adjust for inflation, wages didn't go up at all. He is a pathological liar. The only thing he ever built was--
MCENANY: OK. Cenk-- UYGUR: --tax cuts for the rich and for corporations. He built no wall. Undocumented immigrants are crossing at a record pace for the 13 years. He delivered on none of his promises, except to his rich--
MCENANY: Cenk, I have - I actually do have--
UYGUR: --campaign donors.
CUOMO: All right, last word to you, Kayleigh.
UYGUR: That's who he represents.
MCENANY: Un - unlike you, Cenk, actually I have footnotes to my facts. The Bureau of Economic Analysis, wages are growing at the fastest pace in a decade, twice as fast for low-income Americans.
And the CNN poll from, I believe, it was two months ago, showing 75 percent of Americans say the economy is in good shape. So, you know, yes, you can say these non-facts, these - these lies on national television.
But the great news is, according to CNN, people think the economy is going well. So, you're speaking to the 25 percent.
UYGUR: You--
MCENANY: I'll continue to speak to the 75 percent.
UYGUR: You support pathological liars, and I gave you a fact about adjusted for inflation, and you have no answer for that, because all you ever do, all your side ever does--
MCENANY: I just answered for you, and I still yet to hear a footnote--
UYGUR: --is lie. And you know--
CUOMO: All right.
MCENANY: --from you.
UYGUR: --hey, Kayleigh, will you come on here and agree that if in six months he hasn't rounded up millions of undocumented immigrants that you were wrong, and I was right, and then Trump's a liar?
CUOMO: Yes. We'll make a date of it, and we'll come back in six months. But hopefully I have you both on before then. Thank you for making the arguments and disagreeing--
MCENANY: Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Cenk.
CUOMO: --with decency, very important on this show. We get enough of the hostility everywhere else.
All right, did Democrats expect long-time Trump loyalist Hope Hicks to actually deliver today? Are they really surprised that when she came in there that she stonewalled, all right? And what does that mean about what they need to do if they want to get answers going forward?
We have a Judiciary Committee member. He was there for Hope Hicks. And Mr. Cohen was there for the first reparations hearing in a long time. Where's his head on both, next.
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CUOMO: Look, none of this has been easy in terms of oversight with this administration for the Democrats in Congress.
But they did get Hope Hicks into testify, but she totally stuck to the script, or so we're hearing, handing the House Judiciary Committee a whole lot of "No comments." This White House is claiming absolute immunity, something that Committee Chair Jerry Nadler said they will "Destroy in court." But that takes time.
Tennessee Democrat Steve Cohen was in the closed-door hearing.
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CUOMO: Congressman, always a pleasure to have you on the show.
REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Thank you.
CUOMO: First, am I right or wrong that she was not answering questions?
COHEN: Well they exercised immunity, and she abided by it, for everything from January 20, 2017, the beginning of the Trump administration so there was no answers there at all.
And even before that during the campaign, she had a very limited recall, and didn't remember any of the things that possibly could have occurred. Either she was just didn't listen in all those meetings, or she really wasn't there.
CUOMO: Was there refreshment of recollection for her to help with the intrigue surrounding the payments and the stories that were put out by the campaign, some of which were by her about who was paid, and when, and why? COHEN: She - nothing seemed to jog her memory.
And she was just pretty she's - "I don't - I don't remember that. No, there was nothing about this. No, there was nothing about that. There was no talk about Russia. There was no talk about Kislyak. There was no talk about adoptions. There was no talk about sanctions. There was no talk. I guess they just talked about, you know, Hillary, and locking her up."
CUOMO: So Congressman, where does this leave you?
[21:40:00] You guys, right now, are telling your party and the country, "Look, this is the way to do it. We go through these hearings. We'll fight where we have to in court. We'll get the facts together, and then we'll figure out if we have reasonable basis for starting an impeachment inquiry."
My question has been all along, isn't that what an impeachment inquiry is, and that constitutionally, you wind up having more power to get people like Hope Hicks to talk, and less time in court?
COHEN: I agree with you. That's why I'm in favor of an impeachment inquiry. I'm in favor of impeachment. There's enough in the Mueller report, based on obstruction of justice, there's enough with emoluments.
There's enough with disrespect for the First Amendment for the press, for the judiciary, etcetera, and then for just his refusal to abide by or understand the law, like I'll accept foreign information on my opponent, and I won't listen to what Wray says, and that the FBI Director says, that's illegal, I'll just say he's wrong.
These are the kind of things that show he can't faithfully execute the laws, which is the oath he takes, and that's the basis of impeachment.
CUOMO: So, where does this go from here?
COHEN: Well, to be honest, without Nancy Pelosi's blessing, it's not going to go anywhere. We now have 68 folks who are in favor of impeachment or impeachment inquiries, who announced such (ph).
There are more that are out there, and I think the more will be coming forth. I just think that we need to act, partially because it's our duty, we have an oath, and impeachment is part of the Constitution, and those of us in Judiciary are charged with respecting the Constitution, and supporting it and it's clear.
And if the Senate won't convict, and the Senate won't convict, I don't think that's a reason not to bring impeachment in the House. We will do our job. If the Senate doesn't do theirs, I think they'll be dealt with by the - by the voters.
CUOMO: Yes. It's got to be about what you see as good conscience and not--
COHEN: Right. CUOMO: --fear of consequence because then you're not really doing the job. But we'll see where that goes. Let's deal with how you're going to do things in the future.
And now, let's deal with what you're going to do about what happened in the past. What did you make of this hearing on reparations today? First of all, the fact that it happened at all was remarkable. And what did you take away from the room?
COHEN: Well I think it was a remarkable day. We had great testimony. Ta-Nehisi Coates, he was the - the star, as he always is. Danny Glover was great. And Ms. Malveaux and some - wonderful witnesses and - and good questioning from both sides of and - on - on - on the Committee.
But it was a great debate. And it shows why we need to have a study of reparations. This isn't saying that we're going to have reparations. It's not saying we're going to have a check for people. It's going to say we're going to look into it.
Charles Ogletree, a distinguished attorney and Harvard Law professor said that the way he sees it would be massive influxes of money for healthcare, and education, and job training for people who are left behind, particularly in the African-American community, but it could be others, in the areas where there are high rates of unemployment, health deserts, need for job training etcetera.
The - we don't know what the - the - the study would produce. But the discussion today was - was robust. It went to lot of history what African-Americans have, and their - their ancestors have suffered from in this country.
We had 250 years of slavery, give or take. We had a 100 years of Jim Crow. And even since Jim Crow is ended, we haven't had such a wonderful time, especially if you're African-American--
CUOMO: No. I mean the injury is obvious.
COHEN: --in the last 50 years.
CUOMO: It's what the damage is, you know, you know, what the award would be for the damages--
COHEN: Right.
CUOMO: --just I'll use legal parlance on it.
And when you have the Senate Majority Leader saying, "Well, you got Obama, you know, we gave you the Civil Rights Acts. I mean what - what else you want?" I mean what is the prospect of really getting anything productive done?
COHEN: Well I don't know that we'll get any passed in this Congress. Until that the Senate turns Democrat, we're not going to get much passed at all. Mitch McConnell has made it clear that he's the Grim Reaper. He's going to kill all legislation that comes from the House. We've - For The People agendas included healthcare, lower prescription
drugs, guaranteeing healthcare for people, pre-existing conditions, helping to work on some gun - gun legislation on eliminating loopholes, and make sure we get background checks, working on climate change, working on ethics, we've got all that.
But he's going to kill it all. We need to have a Democratic Senate or we're just going to suffer more and more and more, and go backwards. You know, the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.
They have not passed an additional Voting Rights Act. We're trying to renew it. But the last time we tried to renew it, we had hardly any Republican support in the House, and even less in the Senate.
CUOMO: Congressman, thank you so much for giving the insight into these two big hearings today, appreciate it.
COHEN: You're welcome, Chris.
CUOMO: Congressman Steve Cohen, always welcome on the show.
COHEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, today's an important day in American history. Bernie Sanders wants to make today a national holiday. We refer to it as Juneteenth. What is it? Why it matters? What it should mean going forward?
Let's bring in D. Lemon, next.
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CUOMO: We get things done here for you at CUOMO PRIME TIME. Remember, at the top of the hour, Senator Sanders said he had a question for centrist think-tank Third Way, "Will you support me if I am the Democratic nominee?"
We reached out. We just got an answer, "Yes, unequivocally." That's a quote. They would support Bernie Sanders if he won. But then they got in a dig.
The Co-Founder pointed out that Sanders' Press Secretary bragged on Twitter about voting for Jill Stein in 2016, not Hillary Clinton, the nominee. But they said "Yes." Senator, there's your answer. So today, Juneteenth, it was on this day a 154 years, that slavery finally ended in Texas. That's what marked the end of slavery in the United States.
D. Lemon, 46 states recognize Juneteenth as a holiday. There is a renewed push to make it a national holiday. Senator Sanders says, "Yes." Will it happen? What does it mean if it does?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: I - I think it would be tremendous. And I think it should be. Let me just read something to you. This is one of my--
CUOMO: Please.
LEMON: This is one of my favorite books, right, probably my favorite - favorite book. It's The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin. This is a letter to his nephew, and it was on the 100th anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation, and he's telling him about his life.
[21:50:00] He says, "It will be hard, James, but you come from sturdy, peasant stock, men who picked cotton and dammed rivers and built railroads, and, in the teeth of the most terrifying odds, achieved an unassailable and monumental dignity. You come from a long line of great poets, some of the greatest poets since Homer. One of them said, "The very time I thought I was lost, my dungeon shook and my chains fell off."
And so, and it goes on to talk about the country celebrating the 100 years of the freedom of the 100 years too soon because we cannot be free until they are free, meaning the people who are discussing these issues now, and who are opposed to reparations, and who are opposed to talking about slavery. And then he says, "God bless you, and - James, and Godspeed."
So, I feel like that's where we are now, 154 years, we're celebrating the Emancipation Proclamation. In many instances, a 154 years too soon because there are - there are still people who oppose it being a national holiday, and still people who are against some sort of reparation. So, we're going to talk about that on our show.
CUOMO: What is - is there any good argument in your mind for opposing it as a national holiday?
LEMON: Yes. There are - yes. There are - I can understand where some people are coming from. As long as you are educated, you educate yourself, and you present a valid good argument.
I don't think Mitch McConnell's argument is good on this, as - as a matter of--
CUOMO: No, not on reparations. I'm saying on making Juneteenth a national holiday.
LEMON: Oh, on making Juneteenth, sorry, OK. I - I - no, I don't think there are any good arguments, none, against it, because think about it. What was Columbus Day about, right? You think about Columbus Day. America was - was here. If you ask a
Native American, Columbus didn't discover America, right?
CUOMO: Amerigo Vespucci--
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: --is where the name comes from.
LEMON: So, and if you - if you look at--
CUOMO: At the time (ph).
LEMON: --Valentine's Day, that is a holiday. If you look at New Year's - New Year's Day, that's a national holiday. You look at Labor Day, that's a national holiday. You look at Thanksgiving, which was the harvest festival, celebrating pilgrims.
Well why can't we celebrate slaves who helped built this country, who helped build the economy of America? So, I don't see any good argument against having this as a national holiday.
CUOMO: However, the resistance to that is a lens into what we saw today in that hearing or coming out of it on reparations, just having it was a shocker.
LEMON: But - but I do see - I do see arguments for - for people. And listen, if you can present a valid - valid argument, I'm talking about reparations now, I've - you know, I think people should listen to it.
But, at the end of the day, I'll - I think a lot is owed to the descendants of slaves. How do you do that? It's very complicated process. Sheila Jackson Lee is going to be on. She's going to talk about that.
I'm also going to ask Cory Booker about that. And, by the way, you know, Cory Booker is right, in the thick of it now, with Joe Biden, as they're running, and Joe Biden's comments about former - working with former segregationists in the Senate.
CUOMO: Biden knuckled up.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He's not apologizing.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He thinks Cory should apologize.
LEMON: Cory's the first person on our show, when you and I get finished at the top of the show, we're going to talk to him about that.
CUOMO: Great. Great guest. All right, Don, I'll talk to you in a little bit. LEMON: See you in a bit.
CUOMO: All right, so we know there's a lot of division in America, but not just in politics, in general.
And here's the argument tonight. Everyone's thinking that we're an election away from a cure. I don't. I think the problem is way beyond politics, and I have an example of what I think needs to change, and it's a lot easier than winning an election.
Watch what I have to show you, next.
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CUOMO: Angry fringe politics, troubling sense of division, toxic twitter, all real challenges. The vexing aspect is what to do. We often blame politicians. But they're - are mere reflections of our society.
So, I argue the answer is not an election away. Even this President for all his demagoguing is still a symptom. I argue the change we need is not external. I argue this is the true face of the enemy. And it is us at our worst too often, and has nothing to do with politics.
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(LAKEWOOD POLICE DEPARTMENT VIDEO OF ADULTS BRAWLING AT YOUTH BASEBALL GAME OUTSIDE DENVER, COLORADO)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is happening? What is happening?
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CUOMO: Reprimand them (ph), don't know how to throw punches, and they don't know how to be examples to their kids at a little league game outside Denver, Colorado. The players were seven damn years old.
You see them in the background, running away in fear from their daddies? The trigger here, an alleged bad call by a 13 year-old ump, apparently over the batting order. Now, four adults are facing disorderly conduct.
Police are still looking for the one guy, the man in the white shirt, and the teal shorts, sucker punch someone. He's looking at possible assault charges. You can hear a woman in the video ask over and over "What's happening? What's happening?"
It's a good question. We talk about decency in Washington. Well what's happening there is just a reflection of who we are. Be honest. We need to demand better of ourselves.
Studies show being kind makes you happier, being kind is contagious. It adds to longevity, success in relationships. And yet, too often, too many, are too mean, online, for damn sure, but offline as well.
Sure, POTUS and other electeds, but certainly this President, play on prejudices and hot passions. But they can't use what doesn't work. And it works because we're prone to those base instincts.
To put it short and sweet, for all that different leaders and better politics may mean, maybe if we started by being better to each other, we would create different expectations and different outcomes, and reward different behavior in our politicians.
Do your little bit of good where you are. It is those little bits of good, put together, that overwhelm the world. Desmond Tutu said that. And he was right. And even if it didn't butterfly effect into the body politic, can any of us say our lives would not be a little better if we were a little more conscientious about practicing kindness.
That's our argument for tonight. Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts now.
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