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Friends Of Trump Accuser, E. Jean Carroll, Speak Out; Biden Takes Stage With More Debate Experience Than Opponents; Madonna's New Video Delivers Gun Control Message. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 27, 2019 - 15:30   ET


LISA BIRNBACH, FRIEND OF E. JEAN CARROLL: Honestly, you did say he put his penis in me, and I said, my face just did it. What? He raped you? And you said (mumbles), he kept pulling down, he pulled down my tights. He pulled down my tights.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN Political Correspondent Sara Murray is here. And so talking about these two women, what more they're sharing, and what was -- what's their connection with Carroll.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Brooke, we knew that they sort of confirmed that she shared E Jean Carroll -- E. Jean Carroll shared this version of events with them at the time. You know, and I'd spoken with them when they still wanted to keep their names out of it.

But now, they are sharing their names and they're both very prominent women in media. I mean one of them is Carol Martin who was a long time anchor, television anchor here in New York. And the other is Lisa Birnbach and she is an author. She wrote "The Official Preppy Handbook." She's written for, you know, a number of other magazines. They're both very well-known.

And, you know, they basically ran through what it was like to hear E. Jean Carroll recount this experience some two decades ago. And Lisa Birnbach actually talked about how she was trying to get Carroll to go to the police. Here's what she said.


BIRNBACH: I said, let's go to the police.

No. Come to my house. No, I want to go home. I'll take you to the police. No. It was 15 minutes of my life. It's over. Don't ever tell anybody, I just had to tell you.


MURRAY: And interestingly, her other friend Carol Martin had the opposite reaction which she also shared on this "New York Times" podcast. She said, no way, he's too powerful, he has too many lawyers. He will bury you. You should keep this to yourself and not tell anyone. But, you know, Carroll is also sharing why she was so reluctant which of course as you know, is not unusual for people who have been sexually assaulted, who have raped. But she sort of explained a little bit more about why she was so reluctant to relive this and go to the police. Here's what she said.


E. JEAN CARROLL, ACCUSES DONALD TRUMP OF SEXUAL ASSAULTING HER IN THE 1990S: It was an episode. It was an action. It was a fight. It was not a crime. It was I had a struggle with a guy.

BIRNBACH: Well, you felt you encouraged it, probably?

CARROLL: Oh yes, I know I did. I know I did.

Oh, advise you? Lingerie? Great. It was getting better and better and better. I was getting better and better.

MEGAN TWOHEY, NEW YORK TIMES: So you felt responsibility for what had happened?

CARROLL: One-hundred percent.


BALDWIN: So that's why she didn't go.

MURRAY: Right. She still just felt that it was, you know, kind of her fault to have engaged in what was started as this sort of light hearted banter with Donald Trump who is very much a man about town in New York in the 1990s, and thinking it would be funny to go up to the lingerie department. And, you know, she says over and over again, I just thought, this is kind of the -- this sort of thing I could dine out on for the rest of my life. What a hilarious interaction this would be.

And, you know, the longer impact of that is she just really felt like she kind of brought it on herself. And, you know, if she took that to the police, and spoke about it publicly, she would somehow have to accept responsibility for that.

BALDWIN: And I was talking to Maeve yesterday about how these two Republican senators are saying, hey, this needs to be investigated somehow.

MURRAY: Right.

BALDWIN: So we'll see if and when and how that happens. Sara Murray, thank you very much.

Next, former Vice President Joe Biden is expecting to get some attacks on his long record in Washington this evening up on that debate stage. But of course he also has a long history of debates. We'll take a look at some of his more memorable moments to see how he could perform tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:38:15] BALDWIN: Round two of the first Democratic debates is just hours away. And while the candidates' last night stayed away from taking swipes at their party's front-runner, Joe Biden could also turn very differently tonight when Biden is center stage. The former Vice President heads into tonight's debate not only as the front-runner, but with more debate experience than other Democratic contenders.


JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rudy Giuliani, probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency, is here talking about any of the people here. Rudy Giuliani, I mean, think about it. Rudy Giuliani, there's only three things he mentions in a sentence, a noun, and a verb, and 9/11, I mean there's nothing else.


BALDWIN: One of his more famous debate zingers there.

Scott Detrow is a political reporter with NPR, he has spent a lot of time sitting to watching tape -- old Biden debate tapes to analyze how he might perform tonight.

So, Scott, thanks for swinging by the camera. And let me just start. I've got a couple clips that I want to run past you. So starting with the 2008 race, and his debate with Sarah Palin, because it was not a runaway, here is a clip.


SARAH PALIN, (R) FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot afford to lose against al-Qaeda, and the Shia extremists who are still there, still fighting us, but we're getting closer and closer to victory, and it would be a travesty if we quit now in Iraq.


BIDEN: With all due respect it isn't your plan. Barack Obama has offered a clear plan. Shift responsibility to the Iraqis over the next 16 months, draw down our combat troops. Ironically, the same plan that Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq and George Bush are now negotiating. The only odd man out here, only one left out is John McCain.


[15:40:02] BALDWIN: So he spent more time hitting Senator McCain, right, instead of Palin's record. Do you think that that will be a harbinger of things to come this evening? Will he go, you know, just all out against Trump and not the folks standing next to him? What do you think?

SCOTT DETROW, NPR REPORTER WHO'S REVIEWED OLD BIDEN DEBATE TAPES: Well, the takeaway that I had from the reporting other than that is that if you look at the different debates that John McCain has been in over the years, even though he has this reputation as a gaffe machine, as somebody who speaks off the cuff, he is actually tailored his approach to each debate very differently to that Rudy Giuliani, right?

He was on the edge of the stage. He was hardly getting any speaking time, going a half hour at a time without talking. He knew he needed to leave a mark, leave a zinger that something would remember and we're talking about more than a decade later.

But with Palin, his team was very prepared saying, she's just had a disastrous week. She just comes off of all those Katie Couric interviews. There were all these questions about whether she was ready for the vice presidency. So his goal was really to take a back seat and just to let her talk and talk more to John McCain and talk up Barack Obama.

BALWDIN: But then you report -- I got another clip. This is his 2012 debate performance with former Congressman Paul Ryan, and Biden took the opposite approach. Roll it.


PAUL RYAN, (R) FORMER VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: Our allies are less willing --

BIDEN: With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. In fact --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why is that so?

BIDEN: Because not a single thing he said is accurate.

This is a bunch of stuff.

RYAN: You can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these important preferences for middle class taxpayers.

BIDEN: It's not mathematically possible.

RYAN: It is mathematically possible. It's been done before. It's precisely what we're proposing.

BIDEN: It has never been done before.

RYAN: It's been done a couple of time.

BIDEN: It has never --

RYAN: Jack Kennedy lower tax rates increase growth. Ronald Reagan --

BIDEN: Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy?

RYAN: Ronald Reagan --


BALDWIN: So, totally different. Kept interrupting, a bunch of malarkey. DETROW: Yes.

BALDWIN: Do we see more of that Biden tonight?

DETROW: Malarkey. We will see. I think what we'll actually see is more of the Sarah Palin, Joe Biden than the malarkey Joe Biden.


DETROW: Which is unfortunate because we all love to hear malarkey. But I interviewed Dan Senor who helped prep Ryan for that debate and they knew that Biden was going to do that because they wanted to make Ryan look inexperienced to compare it to Joe Biden.

So talking to Biden's campaign staff and talking to other people who have prepped for and against him, they think that he's the front- runner. People are probably going to try and take shots, even though notably nobody really did that last night.

I think Bernie Sanders in particular has made it clear that he wants to go after Joe Biden's record and view of the world. And Joe Biden has criticized Bernie Sanders more than any other specific candidate.

But I think by and large, the play of the Biden campaign so far has been to look like the front-runner, to do those solo events, to avoid most of these cattle calls where you see 20 candidates over the course of three hours.

And I think they're going to try to replicate that on the debate stage tonight, speaking to the moderator, speaking to the audience, and maybe with the exception of Bernie Sanders, letting any jabs go, mostly ignored.

BALDWIN: Bunch of malarkey. It's good to look back at those clips. We'll be watching tonight. Scott Detrow, thank you very much for watching that tape for us.

And just a reminder, the second round of Democratic presidential debates will air only here on CNN, so get ready, live from Detroit, we will all be there July 30th and 31st. That will be here before we know it.

Coming up next, Madonna lends her voice to the gun control debate, with a controversial new video that reenacts the Pulse nightclub shooting. Hear what she told CNN about it.

And another New York police officer dies by suicide, the sixth from this department this year. More on this tragic crisis, next.


[15:48:28] BALDWIN: In Alabama today, a mother is being charged in the death of her unborn child after she was shot in the stomach by another woman. Marshae Jones was five months pregnant when police say she instigated this dispute. Jefferson County officials say Jones is the one culpable for her baby's death, putting the unborn child in danger. Jones is being charged with manslaughter. A grand jury did not indict the woman who fired the shot, saying she acted in self-defense.

Madonna, Madonna's new album, "Madame X," just went number one and she just dropped a music video for the single "God Control," which weighs in on the gun control debate.

Video conjures up disturbing imagery reminiscent of the Pulse nightclub shooting just a couple summers ago. Madonna warns viewers, as I need to do right now as we play a clip, that the music video is graphic and violent.



BALDWIN: Lisa France is CNN's Senior Entertainment Reporter. She is with me now.

[15:50:00] And so, Lisa, we saw some of the images there, you know, and then about 40 seconds into the video, you see and you hear this rapid gunfire. Why is she doing this and not only that, she's not apologizing for it. She wants to make a statement.

LISA FRANCE, CNN SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Absolutely. She told me that people have no problem seeing such imagery in action films, but they have a problem when she's talking about something that happens in real life. She wants people to be disturbed, because she says hopefully if they're disturb, they'll do something about it. She really feels like this issue of gun violence in this country has gone too far. We get upset in the moment when it happens and in two weeks later, we've moved on. So Madonna is really trying to, you know, get people to become activists.

BALDWIN: I was reading in your piece where you also talk about -- it's another single from the same album "I Rise" features a sample from, you know, this now famous speech made by Parkland survivor Emma Gonzalez. I know Madonna is a mother of six.


BALDWIN: How does all of that factor into all these messages she's sending?

FRANCE: She says she's as terrified as the rest of the country about sending her kids to school.


FRANCE: She said, you know, children and disenfranchise, they're the ones that are directly impacted by a lot sounds by these mass shootings. And she feels like she has so much sympathy and so much heart for the children in the world. And it's part of her role as a mother to want to protect all those children. And so she's using her art to make her statement.

BALDWIN: How have folks either who survived the Pulse shooting or -- just, you know, gun reform advocates, how have they reacted to this?

FRANCE: One gun control advocate said to me that it's important for -- especially huge stars like Madonna to responsibly use their platforms to get these types of conversations going, but also to keep them going, you know. And if people are motivated by things that people say, they're even more motivated by this type of imagery.

So, you know, why it's -- while it's very difficult for some people to watch, she feels like it's really very necessary in order for us to get to the next stage where we have better legislation and more people coming out to vote, to make sure that these things do not keep happening.

BALDWIN: Lisa France, thanks for talking to Madonna for us.

FRANCE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it. Still ahead here on CNN, Julian Castro gets a massive boost in fund raising after his strong performance last night in the debate stage. He joins CNN live in just a couple minutes to talk about all the key issues.


JULIAN CASTRO (D-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People want to know, can you stand up to Donald Trump? Can you handle yourself? Can you hold your own? And I more than held my own last night.



[15:56:48] BALDWIN: New York City's police commissioner says his department is dealing with a mental health crisis. Another NYPD officer just took his own life. There have been six suicides in the department this year alone, four of them happening just this month. Last night a veteran 53-year-old officer dying of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at his home in Hicksville, New York. He leaves behind a wife and three children.

So with me now, CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz. Why is this happening?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: It's really something that's troubling, law enforcement all across the country. Certainly, the NYPD, they're seeing a trend which they've never seen before. This many officers committing suicide in such a short span. You know, if you get -- they're up to six this year and that's even a lot. But the fact that so much has happened in just this past month is very troubling. They don't exactly why.

The thing -- what's really hard for police officers is when they're in need of help, they're having emotional problems, anxiety, depression, it's very hard to reach out for help. And that is a whole point right now that the NYPD is trying to tell its officers, reach out for help. Tell us something is wrong. The problem is when officers reached out for help, if they say they're having anxiety or they have depression, their guns get taken away, they get placed on desk duty. It's life- altering.

And so it's very hard for them. And today, we heard from the police department, the chief of the department trying to give this message to officers saying, call us, tell us, if you see something wrong, if you're not feeling wrong, call us. And here's how they said it.


CHIEF TERENCE MONAHAN, NYPD: This is the fourth one that we've had recently. Six one this year and if you look at law enforcement around the country, it's 101st police officer to commit suicide this year.

We have to be willing to talk. If people have a problem, to come forward, and more importantly we have too be willing as to listen.

We're looking to what we can do as an agency, how we can handle this better, how we can help our people. Cops run out day-in and day-out and save people's lives if they don't know. We have to figure out a way how we can save our own lives.


PROKUPECZ: And that is the toughest thing for them right now is what can we do, so that there isn't this stigma, so that officers know. If you're having problems --


PROKUPECZ: -- your life is not going to change. We're going to help you. It's a tough challenge for officers and for these leaders of these police departments all across the country, it's hard.

BALDWIN: The wife, the three kids he leaves behind. He's been on the force for so long. Shimon, thank you for bringing that to us.

Let me just pass this along to all of you. Just to remind everyone, the number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273- TALK. So please ask for help if you or somebody you know needs it.

New this afternoon, President Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort just pleaded not guilty in a New York City courtroom for state fraud charges, according to his defense lawyer. Manafort is fighting with charges on the grounds of double jeopardy. The state charges involve some of the same bank loans that led to Manafort's conviction by a federal jury last summer. He's currently serving seven and half years in prison for federal tax fraud, bank fraud and foreign lobbying violations.

That does it for me here. Thank you so much for being with me the last two hours. I'm Brooke Baldwin in New York to Washington, D.C. we go. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.