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Marianne Williamson Not Included In A Piece in "Vogue" Profiling Women Running For President?; Boeing Just Pledged $100 Million To The Families Of Victims From Two 737 MAX Jet Crashes; New York City Is Getting Ready For A Fourth Of July Celebration. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 4, 2019 - 08:30   ET


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is Amy Chozick. She is writer-at-large for "The New York Times" and author of "Chasing Hillary" and she profiles five of the female Members of Congress who are running for the White House, five of the candidates we should say.

Amy, great to have you here.

AMY CHOZICK, WRITER-AT-LARGE, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Thank you so much for having me.

CAMEROTA: Before we get to that overarching question of people's comfort with a woman running for President, let's just get you a little bit of controversy with the piece that you did for "Vogue." Marianne Williamson wasn't included. So why wasn't she?

CHOZICK: Well, she was included in the piece. I mentioned her in the piece, she was not in the photo. And "Vogue" has said that they absolutely did not want to diminish Marianne Williamson's accomplishments or her candidacy.

But at the time, remember, these magazine stories have a long lead time, and the time in March, when this was discussed, in April, when the photo was taken, the field was so vast that they decided to focus on the women who were in elected office at the time.

And yes, the story absolutely mentions her, we don't want to diminish your takeaway from her candidacy.

CAMEROTA: Did you interview her?

CHOZICK: I did not interview her. I was talking to these women. A lot of these women have already -- they have 40 years combined experience in Congress and a lot of them had won races in which they were told a woman absolutely can't, you know, Minnesota is not ready to elect a female senator.

So they spoke from that experience of being elected women when they were told that women could not win those races.

CAMEROTA: I understand. I mean, I think it was interesting that Marianne Williamson is that she made the debate stage. And during the debate, look at this number, she was the most Googled person, the person that audience members or viewers, I should say, wanted to know most about was Marianne Williamson. And so it's just interesting that, you know, she, I guess is a pretty intriguing.

CHOZICK: I think she's an absolutely intriguing candidate. I would love to interview her and do more with her in the future. As with "Vogue," I know, they've told her -- fresh off the debate, they'd love to do more with her in the future. And so it's absolutely not to take away from that.

I think it's sort of unfortunate that in a very historic photo, historic election year, six women with a real shot at the presidency, there has been a tendency to try to make it into some kind of cat fight or you know, "Mean Girls" exclude -- which is unfortunate, and it's something that I think dogs women in general, not just women running for office. And so that is unfortunate.

But at the same time, I do understand her disappointment and her supporters' disappointment in not seeing her. I think the landscape is very different. She did have an interesting turn in the debates, you know, but if you think back to March, April, when you're looking at polling and, and so the landscape is very different now, and she is certainly a compelling candidate.

CAMEROTA: So let's get to the overarching question. Is it possible that the media just keeps talking about this, about can -- are voters comfortable with a woman? And that they're sort of driving this narrative because if you look at the latest polls, Kamala Harris, and Elizabeth Warren, are two and three in most all of the polls. So clearly, voters are getting comfortable with this notion.

CHOZICK: Well, and you could make the case the voters are already comfortable because Hillary Clinton won three million more votes than Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: There you go.

CHOZICK: And so I think it's fair, I think it's a sort of dangerous thing when the media is constantly debating, can a woman win because it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Voters hear that on CNN, obviously, on MSNBC and my story and other stories, and they think, "Oh, well, maybe they have there's no," you know, and so it's an interesting dynamic. Of course, it's something we all want to discuss, because this is something that's never happened -- electing a woman.

But at the same time, experts have told me that there's this fear that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Voters start hearing it filter down from the media, and all of the candidates I spoke to said that they'd heard from voters, supporters, donors, saying, "I'm just concerned a woman can't beat Trump," you know, so it does filter down.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And that's where I think we have to be careful. And we can't tell if that's an echo chamber effect.

CHOZICK: Right. CAMEROTA: So if really, voters are more involved on this and have made their peace or feel comfortable in a way, but because they hear that conversation, then on the rope line, they say it to the candidate, because they're just sort of trying to make conversation.

CHOZICK: Right, right.

CAMEROTA: One of the things that you write is -- rather than -- in the "Vogue" piece, "Rather than being propelled these women have seemed stuck in a sort of political purgatory, firmly, frustratingly sandwiched between Hillary's loss and the country's eventual (ph) realization that a woman can be President." What do you mean about that?

CHOZICK: Well, I think we're in a really interesting moment. I mean, by all accounts, a woman won the popular vote in the last election, and yet Hillary Clinton's defeat has seen sort of in this election as a, "Well, careful the country is not ready." You know, it's been more of an albatross than propelling of the country is ready.

And so I think until we elect the first woman in between this woman who was so close, who a lot of her supporters say she rightly won, and the eventual election of a woman, there is this political purgatory where we're still debating whether you know, whether it can happen, whether the country is ready.

And I write in the piece that the thing about electability is no one is electable until they're elected. Remember, they said a Catholic couldn't get elected. They said a black man, couldn't. We debated a lot about whether the country was really ready for Obama.

I mean, we said a reality TV star could never get elected. And so I do think a lot of the -- I think a lot of the electability discussion is sort of a smokescreen for our discomfort with something that we've never seen before.

CAMEROTA: That's a great point. But again, I think the country often shows us in the media that they're more ready than our conversation sometimes is.

CHOZICK: Exactly.

[08:35:05] CAMEROTA: I mean, to your point of all the different firsts. So back to that picture for a second by Annie Leibovitz of "Vogue," there's a -- maybe we can put it up -- because there's also -- there's a picture of them sort of sitting collegial. Here we go -- high fiving each other. So is this real? I mean, when you interviewed them, is there this esprit de corps between them? Because obviously, as the polls get tighter, you'll see them have to duke it out a bit.

CHOZICK: And I love that because just seeing women on the debate stage debate the issues, you know, there's so much perception of like a cat fight, or they hate each other and actually, no, they are just two professional politicians who have vastly different views of the country. I mean, right when I interviewed them, Amy Klobuchar had just come out against Elizabeth Warren's college plan. She does not believe everyone should have free college, as she said in the debate. And I thought, well, that's really interesting. Women can have a professional substantive debate without it's like we're pulling out each other's hair and clawing our eyes out, you know.

And so I think even voters being able to see that on the debate stage really changes our perception about what a presidential campaign looks like.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And again, the poll numbers just speak for themselves. The fact that these women, at least in Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris have leapfrogged so many other candidates, including all the men, except for Joe Biden, to make it there to the top tier is telling.

CHOZICK: Yes, absolutely. And the more they talk to voters, the more they see them on the debate stage. I think we'll see those polls tighten even further.

CAMEROTA: Amy Chozick, thank you very much for giving us a taste of the "Vogue" article.

CHOZICK: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: A really fascinating read.

CHOZICK: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: One quick programming note, we have a CNN exclusive tomorrow. Chris Cuomo is going to interview former Vice President Joe Biden. How does the 2020 Democratic front runner at the moment plan to stay ahead of the pack? This interview is going to air tomorrow morning right here on NEW DAY at 6:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Set your alarms in case you are partying into the evening for Fourth of July -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's can't miss and Boeing just pledged $100 million to the families of victims from two 737 MAX jet crashes. We're going to get reaction from the parents of one of the crash victims, next.


[08:40:58] AVLON: Boeing announced it will pay $100 million dollars to the families of the two 737 MAX jet crashes in Ethiopia and Indonesia. Joining us now are Michael Stumo and Nadia Milleron who lost their daughter, Samya in the Ethiopian Airlines crash in March.

I want to thank you both for joining us on NEW DAY. I can't imagine what you've been going through these past few months.


AVLON: But I want to get your take on where things stand right now with Boeing putting forward this offer of $100 million dollars to victims. We should say that you are showing a poster of the victims of the Ethiopian crash in front of you right there. And our prayers go out to all the families of the lost ones.

I understand that you've said that the hundred million dollars Boeing is offering is nothing but a publicity stunt. Why?

MICHAEL STUMO, LOST DAUGHTER IN ETHIOPIA AIRLINES CRASH: So first off, this is 89 of the victims of the Boeing crash in Ethiopia on this poster, and we want the focus to be on the families and on preventing a third crash.

Boeing started out blaming the pilots and more and more information came out and the Department of Justice is investigating whether there was criminal behavior in the certification. The families -- and we've been in contact with them -- we have never received any direct apology or condolences from Boeing. Only Dennis Muilenburg has only apologized to cameras.

And this surprise announcement of $100 million to go to local governments or to nonprofits, and for economic development is a bit confusing to us as the families and again, we've never been included. It's an announcement to the cameras, too.

And it seems if you're really serious about working with families and helping them, you need to reach out and work with the families as to what their and our needs are.

MILLERON: Pawel Konarski, who is Polish, who lost his wife and his little boy, Adam, who was a year and a half. He said Boeing proposals should be coordinated with all the family victims, it's important to determine whether we agree on Boeing's actions on their proposals, since they do it on behalf of our loved ones.

I do not understand why they are liaising their proposal with governments and NGOs. There are so many things they could do, offer professional counseling for all the families who are grieving, many of us are in trauma and depression, we are going through a very difficult time in our life.

They could support the DNA investigation to make sure that the process is done in a proper way. They could support the families in our attempt to have the accident site secured. It's open. It's open to the air. People have found human remains exposed there. And we should have a memorial statue at the accident site.

All of these things, if Boeing even talked with one or two of the families, let alone 157, which is what they should be doing. They would learn that these are our real struggles right now. And this is what they could help with. But instead they didn't talk to us at all.

AVLON: I think a lot of folks are shocked that you haven't heard from Boeing directly. But if you could speak to the CEO of Boeing directly today, here on NEW DAY, what would you say?

STUMO: Make safety first. Don't do any more stock buybacks until you have the safety engineers right. That you've brought the repair and the software engineering to professionals in this country, that you've helped fix the Federal Aviation Administration certification process so we make sure we have always safe planes in the future and coordinate with the families for their needs when you want to start reaching out and speaking for them.

Stop merely apologizing and talking to inanimate cameras. Talk to the families.

MILLERON: And from Adrian from U.K. says, "Help us plan a permanent memorial at this crash site because that is so difficult for us to organize on our own." We don't know who all the victims' families are.

[08:45:14] AVLON: Sure, we should read a statement from Boeing. They've said, "We, at Boeing, are sorry for the tragic loss of lives in both these accidents and these lives loss will continue to weigh heavily on our hearts and in our minds for years to come. The families and loved ones of those on board have our deepest sympathies, and we hope this initial outreach can help bring them comfort."

My question to you is quite simple. Based on what you know, now, do you think the MAX 8 should fly going forward?

STUMO: No, no, there's been more problems with it. The software has no redundancy. A microprocessor can fail, a piece of equipment can fail. The plane itself is unbalanced, which is one reason they have this software. And the whole thing needs to be looked at as to whether it ever should fly again. And there needs to be a full recertification process as we fix the FAA itself.

MILLERON: They keep doing add-ons. Since 1967, they added on all these bolts and different things and each item was reviewed independently. It's never been reviewed as an entire plane. And that's really important that that occur before it goes back up in the air.

AVLON: Are you concerned there was a cover up?

MILLERON: They're not coming up with information right now. I mean, there -- if there isn't a cover up, why don't they just say this is what happens. This is how this crash -- this is how the plane would became defective. This is how it became a bucking bronco in the air. The last six minutes of our daughter's life was on a plane that acted like a bucking bronco. And they need to say why did that happen? And how is it going to be prevented for the future?

We're talking to Americans and all passengers because we want you to protect yourselves. We don't want you to be in our situation, grieving somebody that you love or losing your own life. So we want the public to put pressure so that the FAA certification is real, and it means that the plane is really safe to fly. Right now that's not the case.

AVLON: So what do you think -- STUMO: We think that a Department of Justice criminal investigation in the certification process as to whether FAA, or Boeing engaged in criminal behavior could reveal and shed some light on the question, too.

AVLON: So beyond that ongoing inquiry, do you think the answer is more regulation? Legislation?

STUMO: The answer is to not have Boeing self-certify without oversight. And since 2005, FAA has been more sidelined and we're concerned that they are a captured agency. In fact, Senator Ted Cruz, when we met with him told us the FAA was a captured agency, captured by Boeing, we have to free it.

MILLERON: And also that every time there's a near miss, or a problem that the FAA actually address it, they don't have a process right now, like we do in other industries, car industry, medical implant industry, we have we look at problems and in the industry, they address them before they cause death.

You know, FAA is known as the tombstone agency. They only respond when there are deaths. That's unacceptable.

AVLON: Michael, Nadia, I want to thank you for joining us and speaking with us so candidly, and we are again so sorry for the loss of your daughter, Samya and the other folks on those two planes. Thank you for joining us on NEW DAY.

STUMO: Thank you.

MILLERON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: My gosh, they make such a convincing case. I know they didn't want to become experts in this field, but they have.

All right, on a much lighter note, New York City is getting ready to host the big fireworks show, so we're going to show you some of what you will not see on TV tonight. That's next.


[08:53:11] CAMEROTA: All right, New York City is getting ready for a Fourth of July celebration. Millions of people are expected of course to watch the massive firework show, so CNN's Brynn Gingras is live near the Brooklyn Bridge with a preview of everything that we will see, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, too bad they weren't happening right now because we would have the best seat.

This is of course the iconic Brooklyn Bridge right here behind me. This is going to be a showstopper tonight because the fireworks for the first time in five years are actually going to launch from that bridge.

And we got a rare look with a special operations of the NYPD who are charged really with making sure this bridge is safe. The waters are safe. They're the ones that are in the helicopters surveying this whole area of Lower Manhattan in Brooklyn, where there are going to be millions of spectators watching these fireworks tonight.

And yet what we've learned from them is that the planning for this event really started months ago, but the actual on the ground, getting underwater to look at the barges where the fireworks are going to be taking off, that all happened about a week ago, and it's been some serious, serious details.

We're going to expect not only tonight, but it's been going on for again for the last week or so. One rare thing that they haven't used yet that they're going to this year, drones.

The NYPD is actually going to put drones up in the air and they're going to be able to use those, use that technology to actually communicate with the crowd if they need to. And also just be able to survey this area which is just going to be mobbed tonight for the spectacular show. It all begins at 9:20 tonight.

NYPD says no credible threats and they are ready for the night's festivities. Guys, back to you.

CAMEROTA: They have their work cut out for them, but they always pull it off. Thank you very much, Brynn. Have a great time tonight.

AVLON: Love some fireworks. Fun fact. The founding fathers loved fireworks.

CAMEROTA: Is that right?

AVLON: True story?

CAMEROTA: And do you have any more details on that?

AVLON: They use them. They enjoyed them. But it's really just one of the great celebrations. Another great aspect of any good Fourth of July party, soundtrack favorite Fourth of July song.

[08:55:06] CAMEROTA: Oh, by far it's X, "Fourth of July."

AVLON: X, "Fourth of July," that's very strong.

CAMEROTA: It's so good. You all have to listen.

AVLON: I think Shooter Jennings "Fourth of July" I'll throw in there and James Brown, "Living in America."

CAMEROTA: It's great.

AVLON: You've got have some of the Godfather's soul.

CAMEROTA: Okay, love that. What are you doing today?

AVLON: I'm going be with Jack and Toula Lou and Margaret. I know you're going to the Jersey Shore where you'll be avoiding sharks. CAMEROTA: I am returning to my homeland, the Jersey Shore for the day to go to the beach. So I feel sorry for you tomorrow, John, because you have to work with me.

AVLON: Oh, we'll have fun.

CAMEROTA: I don't know what's going to happen today.

AVLON: You know there's one quote by Erma Bombeck that's come to mind this year. She once wrote, "You have to love a nation that celebrates its independence every Fourth of July not with a parade of guns, tanks and soldiers who file by the White House in a show of strength and muscle. But with family picnics." Family picnics, folks.

CAMEROTA: There you go.

AVLON: Enjoy.

CAMEROTA: All right.

AVLON: Happy Fourth.

CAMEROTA: Everyone, enjoy your holiday. I'll see you tomorrow.

AVLON: You will.

CAMEROTA: All right, "NEWSROOM" with Jim Sciutto is up next.