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Hala Gorani Tonight
Donald Trump Hosting Tanks And Giving Speech For Fourth Of July Celebrations; Democratic 2020 Candidates In Iowa Today; Britain Detained Iranian Tanker In The Strait Of Gibraltar; 6.4 Magnitude Earthquake Rattles Southern California, Felt In L.A. & Vegas; Swarms Of Aftershocks Strike Southern California. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 04, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:21] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London on this Thursday, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, the United States is celebrating its Independence Day. But President Donald Trump puts his personal stamp on a holiday usually devoid
of politics. But not this one. And there are some tanks as well in D.C.
Also tonight, a major diplomatic spat between Britain and Iran. Tehran has summoned the British ambassador after British authorities detained an
Iranian fuel tanker in Gibraltar.
And later tonight, I speak to Maria Ressa, journalist, Duterte critic and TIME Person of the Year, about press freedom around the world, here in the
studio.
First, this news just coming in to CNN. A strong earthquake in Southern California near Death Valley. The U.S. Geological Survey says it has a
magnitude of 6.4. It hit more than 300 kilometers from Los Angeles, but it was felt -- and very much so -- there.
The CNN bureau, reporting shaking, people -- residents of L.A. there, one friend that I have in L.A., telling me that he felt his entire house
swaying. There have been a number of aftershocks. Those can be just as scary as the initial tremor.
We'll stay, of course, across the story. We'll bring you more as we get it, especially when it comes to potential damage because this was a 6.4.
The depth, I understand, about 12 kilometers. And as many of you know -- you've watched us cover earthquakes over the years. It is very important,
what depth the tremor occurs at because that's what determines how much damage potentially is caused.
But we understand from initial reports, that there has not been any significant damage to property. And we hope it stays that way, but we'll
keep our eye on it, this moderately strong earthquake rattling Southern California, magnitude 6.4.
Now, the one day of the year that is meant to unite Americans is instead dividing them. People are flocking to the National Mall in Washington for
Independence Day celebrations. But the real fireworks have been going on for a while now.
President Donald Trump is adding his own spin to the holiday. And like so many things in the Trump era, Kylie Atwood tells us it has become
contentious.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to have a great Fourth of July in Washington, D.C. It'll be like no other.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER (voice-over): A celebration, clouded in controversy. In just hours, President Trump's Salute to America
is set to begin, in what he is billing, "the show of a lifetime."
TEXT: Donald J. Trump. Our July 4th Salute to America at the Lincoln Memorial is looking to be really big. It will be the show of a lifetime!
ATWOOD (voice-over): The event will include military vehicles and weaponry on the streets of Washington, something he claims, quote, "The Pentagon and
our great military leaders are thrilled to be doing."
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: Big 4th of July in D.C. "Salute to America." The Pentagon & our great Military Leaders are thrilled to be doing this &
showing to the American people, among other things the strongest and most advanced Military anywhere in the World. Incredible Flyovers & biggest
ever Fireworks!
ATWOOD (voice-over): But a source, telling CNN, some Pentagon leaders and military chiefs do not share his enthusiasm, and worry that it will get
political. The president, also breaking tradition by delivering a speech and saving VIP tickets in front of the Lincoln Memorial for his allies.
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): The Fourth of July's supposed to be a national holiday. He's making it not only political, but he's making it all about
himself.
ATWOOD (voice-over): President Trump, downplaying the cost, tweeting, quote, "It will be very little compared to what it is worth."
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: The cost of our great Salute to America tomorrow will be very little compared to what it is worth. We own the planes, we
have the pilots, the airport is right next door (Andrews), all we need is the fuel. We own the tanks and all. Fireworks are donated by two of the
greats. Nice!
ATWOOD (voice-over): But that claim is misleading, as many of the aircraft involved in the ceremony will be flying in from around the country: F-35C
fighter jets from California, a B-2 Stealth Bomber from Missouri, Apache helicopters from Kentucky, and the Blue Angels from Florida.
The president is also overlooking the additional costs of security, personnel and infrastructure required to put on an event of this size.
Democratic lawmakers, now requesting a detailed accounting from the Interior Department on how those funds are being used, after "The
Washington Post" reported, the National Park Service is diverting nearly $2.5 million to pay for this.
REP. RAUL GRIJALVA (D-AZ): To divert that on a use that is not prescribed for that fund, for what essentially is, you know, self-aggrandization, the
event that Trump is having for himself, is -- we believe is illegal.
ATWOOD (voice-over): Despite the backlash, the White House maintains tonight's event is open to all.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The public is welcome to come and celebrate our great country, the greatest democracy.
I'm not going to -- I'm not going to allow you to politicize it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: So, fireworks in D.C. CNN's Tom Foreman is on the National Mall where, so far, it's all about parades and fun and not politics. But that's
all going to come later.
[14:04:59] And, Tom, I lived in D.C. for years. And just seeing armored Humvees and tanks there, on the streets of downtown Washington, is quite a
sight. Very unusual.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is extremely unusual, unheard-of on the Fourth of July. And it's getting very different results from different
people. Obviously, there are many people here who are Donald Trump supporters.
Right now, many of them, you see, are streaming down from where the parade was held. They're going past the Washington Monument here. The Lincoln,
where the speech will be later on, is actually about a mile or so down that way, past the World War II Memorial.
And there is a big showing here, of people who are supporters of Donald Trump. There are also some protestors out here as well, who have made it
clear from the beginning, they're very disturbed by this sort of militarization of it, whereas Trump supporters see this as support for the
American military, honoring the American military.
Others see this as a needless saber-rattling at the world by the leader of this country, on a day which, as you noted, Hala, is supposed to be about
everyone being united. There is very much a feeling that people do not feel united here, that there is a sort of us-and-them mentality on both
sides over this holiday. And it's made a very, very different feeling here, in addition to all the tension raised by the intense weather going on
right now -- Hala.
GORANI: It's not just the military hardware, it's that presidential speech, it's the VIP tickets handed out by the Republican National
Committee. It's making it seem like more of a campaign event for Donald Trump than a celebration of American independence.
FOREMAN: It's relatively hard, in an election cycle like this, with him having recently announced officially his re-election campaign. It's
relatively hard to not see this as an election event, a campaign event.
Now, one of the real measures of that will actually be in the course of the speech. To what degree does he stick to a unifying national method --
message about the military and about all Americans? And can he steer away from taking stabs at the Democrats and praising the Republican Party, which
would make it much more partisan?
And frankly, Hala, if he leans that way, there will be more pressure from Democrats to say, "Your campaign should have paid for all of this. This
was supposed to be a party for the entire American people. If you make it about your camp instead of everyone, then it's your bill."
GORANI: Quickly, though, there was -- there were thunderstorms in the forecast yesterday. What's the weather forecast --
FOREMAN: Yes.
GORANI: -- for tonight?
FOREMAN: This time of year and this week, we've had -- and you're (ph) seeing more (ph) people sort of streaming in here -- this time of year and
this week, we've had this typical summer pattern, where you can get very, very intensely hot days. And then in the afternoon, everything can sort of
explode. And if you'll pull back around here, that's right over the White House, that direction. You see the darker clouds over there.
Sometimes, they'll (ph) just boil around in the afternoon. And then sometimes, they will let loose. And a couple of nights ago, they did here.
So obviously, if you're a supporter of the president, you'd like to see them hold off today. There's a very real chance they may not, and all
these plans could go under water as the rain comes tumbling down. We'll just have to see about that -- Hala.
GORANI: We'll see. It could literally rain on the parade. Thanks very much, Tom Foreman.
Some Democratic presidential candidates are spending the holiday in America's heartland, celebrating the Fourth, of course, but also clearly in
campaign mode.
These are some of the heavy hitters, fanned out across Iowa today, a key battleground state that holds the first presidential nominating contest of
the primary season.
You see Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, and Pete Buttigieg, all hoping to pick up votes as they take part in picnics and parades. Let's
get an update now from Iowa. CNN's Kyung Lah is live in the town of Indianola.
So this is a very important stop, early on in the race, for these Democratic candidates, Kyung.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Because this is where they will first decide, in these caucuses, who the nominees should be. We'll see a
ranking when this caucus-style event happens. But we're still seven months away, Hala, so it's still very early.
Senator Kamala Harris will be stopping here at this house. This is a very Iowa thing, to stop here. She's going to be speaking in the backyard.
There's a small group assembled. But it's this sort of campaigning in Iowa, this touch-and-feel, making sure you meet every single candidate,
that Iowans and -- this is how you win a caucus.
So Senator Harris will be coming here. And she'll be coming here as there's been this brewing controversy, this spat between her and Joe Biden.
You may recall in the debate, Senator Harris had a breakout moment when she went into Joe Biden's past and his opposition to mandatory federal busing.
He supports it at the local level, as a voluntary busing method, but not something that the federal government weighs in on.
Well, today, we're hearing the Biden camp then go after Kamala Harris because of an interview she did with a group of reporters yesterday. I
want you to listen to what she said. First, she said that she supports mandatory federal busing. And then she said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:06] SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Busing is a tool among many that should be considered. When we address the issue,
which is a very current issue, as well as a past issue, of desegregation in America's schools.
So I think of busing as being in the toolbox of what is available and what can be used for the goal of desegregating America's schools. I believe
that any tool that is in the toolbox should be considered by a school district.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAH: And then, that's touched off a Twitter spat between the spokespeople of both campaigns. This is the spokesperson for the Biden campaign, Kate
Bedingfield, as she tweeted, quote, "It's disappointing that Senator Harris chose to distort Vice President Biden's position on busing -- particularly
now that she is tying herself in knots trying not to answer the very question she posed to him!"
Well, then there was a slap-back on Twitter from her spokesperson, Ian Sams, saying, "Vice President Biden said, quote, 'Who the hell do we think
we are that the only way a black man or woman can learn is if they run shoulders with my white child?' He called busing an 'asinine concept.'
C'mon. Y'all are better than this." That "y'all" is directed to the Biden campaign.
There is some very bitter feelings between these two campaigns. When we went back to the Harris campaign this morning, to ask, "OK, you know, the
Biden campaign is making quite a bit of hay about this," what they are saying now is that Harris has been very consistent.
For mandated federal busing in the 1960s and '70s, that was a very different time in America. A very different time in civil rights. Local
communities oppose any sort of integration, they -- she absolutely felt that it was necessary then. She feels it is much more of a tool now, as
part of a number of ways to help with a much more complicated system of school segregation in modern America -- Hala.
GORANI: I want to ask you a question about July Fourth celebrations in Washington. And I don't know if you've had a chance just to speak to
ordinary voters and American in Iowa, and really, parts of the United States outside of the big urban centers.
Have you been able to sort of anecdotally measure people's level of support for this very unusual celebration that involves tanks, military hardware,
you know, the rest of it? A speech by the president, which is unusual as well?
LAH: We have. But I want to caution you that the sentiment I'm about to share with you is that of an Iowa Democrat. Because everything is being
framed through that way. So they definitely are coming at it from a much more partisan viewpoint.
When Senator Harris yesterday was ripping into Donald Trump about the celebration that he's having, complete with, you know, these tanks, people
were up in arms, cheering her, saying that they absolutely oppose this. They don't want their tax dollars used.
But that's the Democratic viewpoint here in the heartland. You know, you go next door to somebody who's a Republican, you may have a very different
perspective.
GORANI: All right. Kyung Lah, appreciate it. Thanks very much.
Well, let's get some perspective now on this mix of patriotism and politics we're seeing today. We're joined by CNN Military Analyst, Cedric Leighton,
a retired U.S. Air Force colonel, CNN Political Commentator, Alice Stewart, who served as communications director for former Republican presidential
candidate Ted Cruz.
Cedric Leighton, what do you make of the military display in particular? The president was very impressed by what he saw during the Bastille Day
celebrations in Paris last year. What do you make of it happening now, or something similar happening in Washington?
CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Hala, I think it's very different. You know, I've been to two Bastille Day celebrations myself.
And that's a very different atmosphere in France, when you experience that. The U.S. has a very different cultural connection to its Independence Day
than France has to its Bastille Day.
And, you know, frankly, what you're looking at here is a change in the way America -- or at least an attempted change -- in the way America is looking
at its particular national day.
I think that when you look at military efforts being made here, and mixing that with some of the civilian things that we have done traditionally, it
really does not make as much sense to have military hardware on display to this extent on the National Mall here in Washington, D.C.
GORANI: Also, it's -- what's peculiar, is they're not -- they're stationary. It's -- there are not that many of them. It's not like the
Bastille Day display, where they're rolling down the Champs-Elysees, and it's something that traditionally has been part of those -- of that day in
France for many years.
The Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, Alice Stewart, tweeted, "Stop politicizing the military." Veterans, so you have people who have served
in combat (INAUDIBLE) who are not happy with this display of military equipment on July Fourth. What is your reaction?
[14:15:01] ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I commend anyone who has served our country in fighting for the freedoms that we
have, to go out and have a parade and celebrate. But I think it's really important to remember that what today is about and what the president is
aiming to make today about, is parade and patriotism and celebration for this great Independence Day that we have.
And you can see in the live picture behind me, of people gathering down near the area where the fireworks will be held tonight. And I was down
there earlier. People are excited. People are going to enjoy this Fourth of July like they have for many, many years.
And I'm reminded of John Adams, who was one of the original signers of the Declaration of Independence, and he encouraged -- at the time, he
encouraged people to celebrate this day with pomp and parade and with sports and games and guns and bells, as well as bonfires.
So there are many ways that we can celebrate this day. Clearly, President Trump has a different view of how he wants to go about doing it. I'm
intending to look at this as --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But -- but, Alice, if he makes this --
STEWART: -- a celebration.
GORANI: -- a campaign -- if he makes this a campaign event, if he gives a speech tonight trashing Democrats again, with the RNC handing out VIP
tickets to front-row seats, then is it really honoring the United States, one of its most important holidays, to do this?
STEWART: Well, Hala, if he does do that, I'll be right with you in having a problem with that. This should not be about politics. This should be
about patriotism and celebrating our great country.
And I am frustrated with people, going ahead and predicting what he will say. I'm cautiously optimistic that he will take this opportunity, as he
has said, to celebrate America and celebrate our independence and celebrate July Fourth.
And all of the people that want to be critical, let's go out and celebrate this country not because of Donald Trump, but if you have to, do it in
spite of him. Because this day has always been July Fourth. It will be July Fourth after he's gone. And I think we need to go and look at it that
way.
GORANI: And, Cedric, this is not unprecedented. It's unprecedented on July Fourth, obviously. Because there was a Gulf War victory parade in
1991. There, you had tanks rolling down Pennsylvania Avenue. So this has happened in the past, it's just not something that typically happens on the
July Fourth holiday.
How is this different? Those who are criticizing Trump, what would you say to them about why this is different from, say, this parade in '91?
LEIGHTON: Well, I think when you look at the '91 parade, Hala, you're looking at the celebration of a victory in the Gulf War, as you mentioned.
In this particular case, you're looking at a national holiday that is designed to celebrate the peaceful achievements of America. Yes, it's also
the celebration of, you know, what we did in the Revolution.
But you have a situation where, when it comes to people who are looking at this from Trump's lens, you have to say, "We have to be very careful about
the civilian and military relationship here. We cannot have the military be a partisan tool in any of this, for either side. It's very important
that it remain apolitical."
GORANI: Yes. And, Alice, I -- in Europe, most often, I hear people ask the following question about the U.S. Why is patriotism so often conflated
with support for the military? When there are many, many ways to be patriotic and love your country, one of them could be support for the
military. But there are many other ways.
And it seems like this has become the primary way that some politicians have decided you can display and express patriotism. What would you reply
to that question?
STEWART: Well, there -- as you said, there are many ways we can express our patriotism. And we are enjoying many of them today. Shooting off
fireworks, waving of flags, joining together for barbecues, for celebrating our American independence. And the military component of today is one part
of this. Overall, as you've seen from the video that we're showing out there, people are celebrating this Fourth in many ways.
But more than anything, a lot of Americans -- myself included -- look at our military as something to be extremely proud of, fighting and many of
them losing their lives for our freedom and for our independence. And that makes us proud as Americans, and that is one way of the many ways that we
show our patriotism.
GORANI: OK. But, Cedric, quickly, this is the military front and center. Just look at the tanks and the armored Humvees on the streets of downtown
D.C. I mean, I've never seen anything like it.
LEIGHTON: That's right. And, you know, you only see that in cases where, you know, either there's a parade for a victory, or there's some civil
disturbance that goes on, like in the 1960s. And it's not the message we want to send.
We want to send the message that we have the military power but we only choose to use it in the most extreme circumstances. And that's what,
really, we're looking at here. We need to really remember that message that makes what -- America strong, and that's the kind of message that we
need, to make sure it resonates throughout the world.
[14:20:07] GORANI: All right. Cedric Leighton and Alice Stewart, thanks to both of you.
STEWART: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: Still to come tonight, Russia's president and the pope talk both politics and religion. Will their discussions be enough to bridge a
conflict that dates back centuries?
Oh, and Vladimir Putin met some controversial figures in Italy while he was there. We'll tell you about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: An update on the breaking news we brought you earlier. Relatively strong earthquake that rattled Southern California just a short time ago,
with a magnitude of 6.4. Local authorities are assessing the damage. Thankfully, no injuries reported so far, no major property damage as well,
according to local media reports.
The quake's epicenter was more than 300 kilometers from Los Angeles, but it was felt there very much. Several large aftershocks have been reported
since the quake, and we're staying across (ph) this story. We'll bring you more as we get it, the USGS -- the U.S. Geological Survey -- is updating us
on exactly where the quake happened, how deep it was and its strength.
Iran has summoned the British ambassador in Tehran after British authorities detained an Iranian oil tanker in Gibraltar. The U.K. believes
the tanker was carrying oil to Syria, which would violate European sanctions against the Assad regime. Iran says the seizure was illegal.
Now, according to maritime records, the tanker had loaded up months ago. Let's get more with Nick Paton Walsh.
And I understand it had switched off its tracking device, internal tracking device.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Which itself is reason to be a little bit suspicious. The other reason is that it didn't
go straight through the Suez Canal, which is the shortest route if you're going from Strait of Hormuz up towards the Syrian coastline.
They went all the way around Africa, which is kind of startling, frankly. And some say -- well, some shipping experts say, "Well, it was too heavily
laden" --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: There's the route, by the way, on our screen.
PATON WALSH: -- I mean (ph), you know, that's a little bit of a detour. Some say that happened because it was so heavily laden with 300,000 tons,
they wouldn't have been able to get through the Suez Canal. But also, too, that's what brought it to the Strait of Gibraltar.
Now, that's where, early this morning, British Royal Marine commanders boarded it. It's now in their custody. Uneventful as far as we
understand. Some images being released by the British MOD, of the kind of scenes after that.
But the broad question is, what happens to it now? As you said, Iran says this is all illegal because it presumably views notions of it being cracked
down over U.S. sanctions, as being -- surrounding sanctions that itself views as being illegal.
The British justification, it was bound for Syria, Baniyas oil refinery, and that that would be in violation of the E.U. sanctions. A lot of
heightened rhetoric, the Iranian media using words like "taken hostage."
But one interesting fact, the Spanish foreign minister saying this actually occurred at the request of the Americans. So the Americans think this was
violating U.S. sanctions.
A lot unclear here. And one big issue is, if it was really supposed to be trying to avoid sanctions now, the new ones put in early June by the
Americans, well, they wouldn't have known about that when it set sail in early April. So a lot of questions here, but none of that's stopping (ph)
anyone from raising (ph) the rhetoric.
[14:25:12] GORANI: What about the crew? I mean, where is everybody who was manning that vessel?
PATON WALSH: Yes. Far as I know, they're in Gibraltar. At this particular time, it was Panama-registered but that hasn't really stopped
the Iranians from getting extremely angry. They've called it an Iranian tanker and they've called in the British ambassador to Tehran to explain
what exactly happened.
But do we hear from the Americans, as to why they wanted this stopped? Do we know exactly what was on it? Shipping experts say the weight looks like
fuel oil, not crude oil. Was it set sail in April by Iranian companies, thinking, "Well, you know what, let's get something afloat out in the high
seas and we can deal with it later on if sanctions come in against the oil industries that we have?"
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Because it set sail, you were saying, in April? This was before - -
PATON WALSH: Yes, yes. Exactly.
GORANI: -- the recent round of sanctions. And I mean, how do the Iranians -- this might be -- this is one of the ways that they get around sanctions,
by taking circuitous routes with big (ph) vessels --
PATON WALSH: Switching off transmission.
GORANI: Right.
PATON WALSH: If this is what occurred, switching off transmission. They may just say they went (ph) to that route because it was too heavy to go
through the Suez, which is also --
GORANI: Yes.
PATON WALSH: -- entirely possible.
GORANI: Do we know for sure, it was bound for Syria?
PATON WALSH: That's what the British said, yes. Yes.
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Still to come tonight, President Trump's Independence Day parade is attracting a lot of controversy. But where did he get the inspiration?
There's a hint for you on your screen. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: All right. An update on our breaking news. A magnitude 6.4 earthquake that hit Southern California, the small community of Trona near
the epicenter, reported some damage but no injuries. The quake was felt, though, in Las Vegas -- as far as Las Vegas, as well as in Los Angeles. No
damage has been reported in either city. More than two dozen aftershocks have been reported.
We're staying across this story. We'll bring you more as we get it. The U.S. Geological Survey is updating us. Let's very briefly listen to what
they're saying.
ROB GRAVES, USGS SEISMOLOGIST: Now, I will also (INAUDIBLE) or point out, the shaking in the Los Angeles region was not strong enough to be damage,
in that sense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So to be clear, the signal was supposed to go out? It should have gone out? It was --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, do you know that?
GRAVES: I don't know. I want to hesitate before making any definitive statements, until I can sort that out exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't know at this point, whether it was --
GRAVES: Yes, this is -- I --
LUCY JONES, SEISMOLOGIST: The system in the lab works. So that -- you know, the -- physically, it worked. The ShakeAlertLA system, it was set up
with agreements that limited which alerts went out, because they -- we get a lot of false alarms at the lower levels. So whether or not the shaking -
- reached the parameters that should have been alerted, we don't know. And we're trying to find out. But, remember, we're not even an hour since the
earthquake. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you heard of any significant damage in the L.A. area?
JONES: If there was damage in the L.A. area, something's really weird. This was not strong shaking in the Los Angeles area. So I would be
extremely surprised if that were the case.
But, besides, damage notifications do not come to Caltech or the U.S. Geological Survey. They go to the governor's office for emergency
services.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should we be preparing for a big one?
JONES: One should always be preparing for a big one. This does not make it less likely. There is about a one in 20 chance that this location will
be having an even bigger earthquake within the next few days that we have not yet seen the biggest earthquake of the sequence. It's certain that
this area is going to be shaken a lot today. And some of those aftershocks will probably exceed magnitude five which means they will become damaging.
We do not expect -- this is far enough away from the San Andreas that any impact on that system will be minimal. I think this is -- this would be a
good time to remind you that if you have been experiencing earthquakes for the last 20 years in Southern California, you have been experiencing an
extremely quiet time in California history.
The last time we had an earthquake in Southern California above magnitude six, was 1999. The previous decade had had about eight magnitude six's.
So this has been an extremely quiet, abnormal time. This type of earthquake is much more normal.
On the long run, we expect earthquakes of this size. It's not even 6.5. The long-term average is probably once every five or 10 years, somewhere in
Southern California. So, remember, this is more what we should be thinking about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But does that mean there's no more tension underneath us?
JONES: No, I can -- well --
GRAVES: I would actually say it's about the same, as Lucy was explaining this type of earthquake is more what we'd expect, obviously, any earthquake
that occurs releases some of that tension, but there's a tremendous amount that's built up since the last major earthquake which was in 1857 on the
San Andreas.
So these types of earthquakes are kind of on the fringes of many of the other more active faults. This typically -- this type of activity is
actually very typical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lucy, you said we should be expecting lots of aftershocks. If you could just walk through what we should expect for the
next few hours and how -- like will it taper off? How does that work?
JONES: I -- since I haven't had a chance to even count the number of aftershocks so far, I can't be accurate with this one. An average 6.5, the
largest aftershock is about 5.5. And there would be about 10 4.5's and 100 3.5's. I think we have already had probably in excess of 23 and halves.
So that suggest we're on the high side. This is not generic. This is probably --
There's a wide distribution between different sequences. We see factors of 10,000 variation in the productivity of sequences. The generic is the one
I just gave you. One 5.5, 10 4.5s. This seems to be on the high side. The upper 50 percent, right? So I would expect that there will continue to
be magnitude threes every few minutes as there have been since this earthquake happened.
And that as those many threes come through, we're going to have several fours. In fact, there was a 4.1 that happened about -- I don't know.
Something like a minute ago. And somewhere in here -- I said, I think they're going to get up above five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For how long? You said to expect -- we're talking about a three-hour period, 10-hour period?
JONES: A few years. OK. So, yes, not at this rate. However, whatever number you have in the first day, on average, the second day has half that
number.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
JONES: The third day has a third that number. So the 100th day has one percent that number, which is not very many compared to today, but is a lot
more than your background rate.
Now, day 110 has 0.95 percent, right? It's not very different. When you get out into that tail, there's a long tail where we continue to have
earthquakes.
[14:35:09] The last earthquake close in size, so this is really Northridge. That was a 6.7. The last magnitude five to the 1994 6.7 was in 1997. So
for three years, we continued to have magnitude fives to Northridge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when was that one that you said 20 years ago?
JONES: The biggest -- in 1999, we had the Hector Mine earthquake. It was October 16th, about 2:37 in the morning. Who could forget? And it was way
east of us. It was out in the 29 Palms Marine Corps Weapons Testing Center. So it was very isolated. The damage was limited because of it.
It woke up people across Los Angeles. And I said 7.1. And that's the last time we've had an earthquake above six in Southern California itself.
Easter day 2010, there was a magnitude 7.2 in Baja, California, that was felt across much of the region, but it was located well south of the
border.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you explain -- can you just explain, I'm hearing from my friends in the Inland Empire and they seem to have felt a lot more
than we did here. Can you kind of compare how the shaking would have felt across our --
JONES: I'm wondering if we can find --
GRAVES: We have the shake map?
JONES: Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I can't even get this -- let's see. OK. Because if we could -- here's that you feel it right here -- if we can
-- we don't seem to have our --
GRAVES: Let me -- let me see.
JONES: OK. I will --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While you're doing -- while you resolve that technical issue, could you describe what the field teams do when they go to
look for the --
JONES: OK. So an earthquake actually is the movement of one side across the other. Now like with Northridge, that movement happened in the earth
and the fault stopped before it got to the surface. This size earthquake we have mapped faults there. It's probably through to the surface. So
what they are looking for is a place where one sides moved with respect to the other. So you need something crossing that fault. I mean, you can see
the disruption off usually, but sometimes that disruption is just shaking induced.
So to be sure that you're seeing fault offset, you need to be sure you see something that got moved. So the first thing they'll look for are the
roads. If there's a road crossing this fault, if you'll come along and then there's the rest of the road.
As a guess at magnitude 6.4, the offset levels are probably one to five feet. Probably on the -- a few feet. So that means you come along the
curve of a road, it then just moves over and there's the rest of it a few feet over.
If we can -- could ever get this in control, we can bring up some pictures of such things from previous earthquakes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you explain to me again what happened when the -- so the --
JONES: We don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
JONES: OK. It is -- we have just hit an hour after the earthquake. We know that the system worked, but the app has parameters that says don't
give a message if it's below this level, and we don't know if this fit it or not, because that was decided -- wasn't decided here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you think personally when you started feeling the rolling?
JONES: Oh, damn, I'm going to have to tell the family not to come over this afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fourth of July canceled.
JONES: I have a whole pile of food in that refrigerator.
GRAVES: Press party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried at all or did you know immediately there was -- it wasn't that strong here in L.A.?
JOONES: OK. Because of what I've --
GORANI: We join Brooke Baldwin for more.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: -- facility. Are you helping folks in the home?
CAROLYN STORRUSTE, WORKS AT ASSISTED LIVING CENTER NEAR EPICENTER (through telephone): There is an assisted living where a lot of -- the elderlies
lived, and we assist them. And I'm a residential care manager here.
BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness for all those good people. And the power is out, Carolyn. I hear the power is out?
STORRUSTE: Yes, the power went out and then the backup lights came on, and then we had another -- the aftershock and then it all went out. So right
now, our goal is to keep everybody hydrated, you know, cool. And away from any more windows or -- we're trying to clean up the mess, because there's a
lot of tipped over dressers and T.V.s and everything, so pretty scary.
BALDWIN: So it was that strong that dressers tipped over?
STORRUSTE: Yes. We had dressers, pictures, T.V.s. You can see smoke out in the ridge pass, so there's probably been accidents and fires. It was
scary. We're having another one right now.
[14:40:03] BALDWIN: Right now?
STORRUSTE: Yes.
BALDWIN: Hang with me. Hang with me, Carolyn.
STORRUSTE: I'm a little out of breathe, because all I could care about at the moment are my babies, are my children. But you're back at work and you
got to hold it together and focus on everybody else.
BALDWIN: No, take a breath with me. Take a breath. And then, first, are your kids OK?
STORRUSTE: All my kids are OK. All accounted for, so.
BALDWIN: Are you OK?
STORRUSTE: Yes, I am. It's very hot in here.
BALDWIN: How warm is it? How warm is it about?
STORRUSTE: I'd have to go down and check the temperature, but it feels probably about 90.
BALDWIN: So 90-ish degrees. No power --
STORRUSTE: It feels that way.
BALDWIN: You're at this assisted living facility trying to -- worried about your children, taking care of all these folks in the home. How are
the folks in the home faring?
STORRUSTE: Everybody at first, you know, they all kind of went together. They stayed together. A little scared. And then they finally have just
now started to like pick up like this go on. In fact, they're all getting ready to go to lunch.
BALDWIN: OK.
STORRUSTE: They're just kind of maneuvering in the dark. So we've got doors open and fans blowing. Well, not really fans --
BALDWIN: What -- is that an announcement?
STORRUSTE: So we're being ordered back into the lobby area. Everybody has to come out of their rooms. So I'm going to have to go.
BALDWIN: OK. You take care of everyone there and take care of yourself, Carolyn. Thank you so much for all that you're doing and for jumping on
the phone with me. I appreciate it very much.
Sara Sidner, coming back to you. My goodness.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BALDWIN: I feel for these folks.
SIDNER: You do. And I think one thing that people forget is, you know, we're always talking about the magnitude, right, and how big or small it
is. But when you experience one of these, there is a sense of a complete loss of control of your -- the area that surrounds you. You really can do
nothing but take cover.
And it literally shakes you physically but it can also shake you quite emotionally with your family and you're wondering if this is the big one or
if there is a bigger one to come. In the meantime, when is it going to stop? Because when these go on for seconds on end and some of them have
lasted up to a minute in countries around the world. I've been to places where they've experienced that and experienced it myself, it is
quintessentially unnerving on many levels.
And when you hear her voice crack, you really -- it's hard not to feel for people who are going through this. Especially when they're in a position
where they're trying to protect their family, their children. I know that I have heard from friends who say that, look, their children actually
really felt this one. And they were terrified because for a very long time here, people have not felt one this strong.
And when you first feel one and you're not from here or you're a child who's never really experienced it, it really is unnerving. You have a loss
of control your surroundings, and there is nothing you can do about it but take cover. We should keep that in mind for the families that live there
in Ridgecrest and who live, for example, in Las Vegas and some of the surrounding areas.
Like I said, the closer you are to that epicenter, the more you're going to feel a 6.4 or a 4.2. I mean, yes, you are going to feel these. And it's
not by any means over. You heard there from seismologist Lucy Jones. She was very clear in saying, they're going to feel a lot of shaking there in
the Ridgecrest and surrounding areas today. That is normally what happens when you have a seismic event.
So thoughts to the folks that are dealing with this and trying to get through it. And we know now that rescue crews are out. They are getting
reports of medical emergencies and of fires. Kern County rescue is out there trying to help people as we speak, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Yes. I'm just still thinking about Carolyn. You just have to remember to breathe. Remember to breathe through it all.
Sara, thank you very much.
Tom Sater, meteorologist Tom Sater. I mean, I'm curious too, if you're in Ridgecrest like she was, is, at this assisted facility place and you have
no power, and you are still feeling these aftershocks, and it -- is it in the 90s? They have no air conditioning.
TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's true. I would be really concerned about the smell of gas. I'm sure there's going to be
unbelievable amount of calls, Brooke, to 911. You think you're smelling gas. You may not even smell it, but I mean, you got to get out of there.
If you know how to turn it off, do.
But let me pass along a few things, I thought Dr. Jones, the seismologist was extremely interesting on a few points. 6.4 at 10:33. There was one
before this about 10:05. That was the 4.1 or 4.7. We're still working on that. That was the foreshock. So this is the earthquake. Unless there is
one bigger, and this becomes the foreshock.
[14:45:07] But it's only five miles in depth. That's considered extremely shallow. That means more energy can be dispersed. She talked about high
frequency. That's more violent shaking, and the low frequency, those are the wave actions you fell and it promulgates outward farther. This was not
on the San Andreas Fault. It's just east of there, they believe into a smaller fault.
She talked about how it traveled about 10 miles on the fault line. That's because this was called a strike slip. That means the two parcels of land
kept horizontal. Not like a thrust where one is pushed on below the other.
The shake map has come out. I know this is difficult to see. So I'm going to read these colors off. But Ridgecrest is right in the middle, and then
there's a yellow, green, blue, and then you come all the way out to Fresno, down to Long Beach, L.A. and out toward Vegas.
Forty-two thousand felt very strong shaking. That's enough to do damage. 42,000, that's Ridgecrest, about 30,000 live there. So that's Ridgecrest.
Very strong. Now above that is severe, violent, and extreme. So thank goodness we didn't have that, but still, very strong will do some damage.
Four thousand strong. That's out and around the Ridgecrest area. And then you get 21 million felt light shaking. That's L.A. up to the north.
Another two million felt weak. Barely could feel it. That's probably up toward Fresno and out toward Vegas.
The USGS then, Brooke, takes this information with their shake map population, the magnitude, the depth. And they have these models. We use
these almost every other week when we're talking about earthquakes around the world in international.
What we want to see -- well, this is called a pager and this has to do with estimated fatalities. I know, God forbid, but you want to see green. And
that means there's a 65 percent chance that maybe no one passed. A 30 percent chance of one to maybe even 10 fatalities. That's a big percentage
when you're talking 35.
Now, Economic losses. This is in the yellow zone here. 35 percent. This is the larger of the boxes here. It says the possibility of 10 million to
$100 million in damage. It wouldn't take much to get to $10 million if you're talking about fractures, stress fractures, integrity of buildings
being compromised. A lot of basis or cracks and walls, what have you? Gas leaks. That could easily get up to about $10 million in a community.
Now, real quick, one more for you. When we talk about the number of aftershocks that are occurring. When you have a 6.4 magnitude quake, you
can have at least one that's a 5.4. And Dr. Lucy mentioned that. Could we? Absolutely. We could have a 50/50 chance of having one larger than
our quake. But most of the time, this is pretty accurate that at least one aftershock is 5.4. We haven't had that yet.
You can have 10 that are 4.4 or greater. You can have 100 that are 3.4. And already, we're seeing numerous aftershocks just in the last hour where
our numbers are going up to like six and even seven. So this is going to continue, as she said, for a while.
BALDWIN: OK. Tom, thank you very much for all that information. I just want to keep hearing stories. I want to keep hearing from people who live
in this part of California and who can describe for me what it is that they've gone through.
Linda King works at a market about eight miles outside of Ridgecrest. Linda, you're on the phone with me. How are you doing, and how shaky was
it?
LINDA KING, FELT EARTHQUAKE NEAR RIDGECREST (through telephone): It was shaky. Very shaky.
BALDWIN: Define very shaky. If you're in a market, are we talking about things coming off store shelves or --
KING: Bottles were coming off. Items behind my counter where I was standing was coming off.
BALDWIN: No kidding.
KING: I didn't quite know where to go. I didn't really want to run out by the gas pumps. Yes, it was very, very shaky.
BALDWIN: How long did it last, a couple seconds or did it feel a lot longer?
KING: It felt like a lot longer. I'm sure it was just seconds, but long seconds, yes.
BALDWIN: Long seconds. And have you felt any shakes since? Because were reporting on these after -
KING: Yes. While I was standing here on the phone with you guys, I just felt another one, just a few minutes ago.
BALDWIN: Have you counted since the big one -- hopefully that was the big one -- have you counted how many aftershocks you think you felt?
KING: I don't really know because we were pretty shook up right after it, so I'm sure we were having aftershocks. We didn't know if we were shaking
or what was going on.
BALDWIN: Of course. Understand, understand. And --
KING: I have felt, in the last 20 minutes, two of them. Two pretty good little aftershocks.
BALDWIN: OK. So you're at this market. You see these bottles of alcohol coming down. And it's just you and another co-worker. Just the two of you
guys when this happens, correct?
KING: My boss and I, yes.
BALDWIN: Your boss and you. So then it's my understanding, my producer just told me that someone else came in the store and reported a ceiling
collapse in a nearby Walmart? Can you tell me about that?
KING: In Walmart -- yes, customers were coming in here because they were closing businesses in Ridgecrest. They said it was horrifying. Stuff was
just coming down, the ceiling was coming down.
[14:50:07] BALDWIN: The ceiling was coming down.
KING: Mm-hmm.
BALDWIN: Yikes. Are you planning to stay put? What's your situation right now?
KING: We are open. We're open for business. We have everybody calling to see if we are open because of the fact that Albertson's and Stater Bros.
and all the businesses in Ridgecrest have closed their doors because of severe damage.
BALDWIN: And, you know, during any sort of earthquake, everyone says -- you always compare it to the last big one you ever felt. Have you lived in
Southern California for a while, and how would you compare it to anything you've felt before?
KING: This is the most major one I had ever felt.
BALDWIN: The most major one you've ever felt.
KING: Yes.
BALDWIN: Linda King, open for business there at your market, despite some things crashing down on this Fourth of July. Thank you so much for jumping
on the phone with me and take care of yourself and good luck to you and your boss.
We're pivoting back between these various voices calling in. Telling their own stories of what they felt. I'm reading all of your tweets as well.
I'm @brookebcnn. I'm reading how many of you are feeling the rolling, shaking sensation that you're describing all the way from Las Vegas on into
Los Angeles.
Sara Sidner is in L.A. She's been keeping an eye on lots and lots of moving pieces in this earthquake. And so you have new reporting on the
number of aftershocks. And even rock slides?
SIDNER: Yes. So San Bernardino, which is about an hour's drive from L.A. and people will remember that name, unfortunately, because of the terror
attacks that happened there. They are now reporting their rescue crews and fire reporting minor that there are minor cracks in buildings there, but
power lines down.
And rock slides that are happening on certain roads in that area. You know, at this point when you have one of these events, this sort of thing
happens quite often. Especially rock slides. Something that's very dangerous here as you're driving along some of these roads, along ridges.
It is pretty common for rock slides and mud slides to actually happen here after an event like this.
But, you know, keeping in mind how far away we are here in Southern California from Ridgecrest, 156 or so miles and you're hearing about
buildings cracked and you're hearing about rock slides, it just gives you some idea of the power of this particular earthquake.
And because it was shallow, as you heard from our seismologist Jones, that creates more potential for damage. And we now know there is damage, of
course, in and around the epicenter there in Ridgecrest that we are hearing that crews Kern County is reporting and that's where Ridgecrest is in Kern
County.
Kern County rescue reported that they've gotten at least two dozen calls for medical emergencies and for fires. And so they're out doing the best
work they can to try to help people.
But again, far enough away from there, more than 100 miles away, you've got cracks in buildings, you've got rock slides happening in San Bernardino.
Concerning to everyone, we have yet not heard, just for some clarification here in Los Angeles, one of the largest cities in the country, most
populated cities in the country, not heard of any injuries or damage yet here.
But certainly look -- you're seeing pictures there. That's Pico Rivera, California, seeing pictures of things falling down and breaking. And this
is, by the way, what generally hurts people in these kinds of events. The earthquake comes through.
I do want to also mention to you, you know, people should know there are going to be aftershocks, and we are hearing, and you just heard from a
resident there who was choked up as an aftershock was happening right as she was speaking to you. There will be more of these. Seismologists are
very clear in saying you'll get a lot of these. Not just today, but you'll get fewer but you will still get them tomorrow and the third day. So this
event is not over.
And the fear is that there's a one in 20 chance that there could be a stronger earthquake to come along. People should remember the rules of
safety. Get -- take cover. Get underneath something that is sturdy and strong in case things start falling off the walls, off the ceiling, or you
have some incident with the ceiling. That is generally what injures people.
If you're in a store, try to find somewhere, go underneath a register with somebody because things fly off of shelves and that is usually how people
get injured in these events, Brooke.
BALDWIN: You know, talking to one of those eyewitnesses in Ridgecrest, and you had reported on this and for folks who are just tuning in. In addition
to the boulders, and rock slides, and just the continued feeling of the aftershock, there have been fires reported in the Ridgecrest area. Just
tell us what we know about that.
SIDNER: So we're just getting that from Kern County rescue, and they're going out and trying to assess what is going on. Do we know for sure that
those are from this event? We do not yet. But, obviously, sometimes what happens is the gas lines get interrupted, they get damaged, and you can
have a fire.
[14:55:02] And so people are always alerted that if you smell gas, for example, in your house and you can get out and get to a safe place, if
there is a way for you to do that, you should. Those are very, very, very dangerous possibilities that there is going to be an explosion or a fire
ignited from gas lines. And that could be, but we have not confirmed, could be what has caused some of these fires in the area there where the
epicenter is happening.
And it is important for people to know when you're seeing video here from another resident, a lot of times one of the best ways to see that an
earthquake has happened when you're feeling it and to show it, is the water in a pool. And you'll see it sloshing and moving.
I can tell you, I just talked to someone who is in the bottom of this building, who is on the ground floor, and she tells me that there was
definitely a feeling of rolling. First kind of a little bit of movement, first a shake, and then that rolling feeling. Brooke?
BALDWIN: Sara, thank you so much. Stand by.
I've got the mayor of Ridgecrest, California now on the line. Mayor Peggy Breeden. Mayor Breeden, thank you so much for jumping on. I can imagine
you have your hands very full right now. Bring us up to speed as far as what you know and how people in your community are doing.
MAYOR PEGGY BREEDEN, RIDGECREST, CALIFORNIA (through telephone): Right now, we just 30 seconds ago had another one. We've had -- this would
either be our seventh or eighth one we've had. Oh, my goodness. There's another one right now. Oh, my goodness.
BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness. Are you OK?
BREEDEN: Yes.
BALDWIN: Breathe. Just breathe.
BREEDEN: OK. We've got -- as I understand, we have five fires. We have broken gas lines. We have -- I do not know of any -- oh, this is a really
good one.
BALDWIN: Hang on. Before you continue, is it -- was it one aftershock you're feeling or several in a row?
BREEDEN: I can't tell. It seems like it's one.
BALDWIN: Is it still going?
BREEDEN: We've had so many. No, it just ended. We've had -- the police are out doing a marvelous job. Kern County has set up an emergency
facility here. We have China Lake Naval weapons Center right next door to us. Everyone has offered their help. I've talked to the assembly man who
is a member of our congress in the assemblyman (INAUDIBLE) who is a member of our Congress in the state -- an assembly in the state of California.
Senator Kevin McCarthy -- I'm sorry, Congressman Kevin McCarthy. I just got off the phone with. We've had all sorts of offers of assistance. We
have a lot of people. I'm asking everyone. And as they listen to this, please go next door to your neighbors. Just because you're OK doesn't mean
that they are. Knock on the door. Make sure that there is somebody there and that they are not in need of anything.
The police, fire, and all our volunteer organizations are out working, assessing the situation, trying to find out where it's best needed. The
five fires, I believe, are under control right now.
BALDWIN: Can you talk to me a little bit more, Mrs. Mayor, just about those fires? Was that because of broken gas lines?
BREEDEN: Do not know that yet. There are PG&E, Pacific Gas and Electric is out here assessing lines and turning off gas virtually everywhere. And
that's what we're doing. We're just please asking people to don't panic. I went down to our senior center. We're a town of -- a city of about
28,000 people. They were having their Fourth of July event there. They were panicky. I went down there. We've got everybody out. No physical
injuries. A lot of damage in the facility.
But so far, I'm about half a mile away from the hospital. Numerous ambulances are going by. I do not know if it's because of the earthquake
or just panic or what. But that's what's happening. And we have all sorts of organizations out helping. And that's where we are.
And so, please, please just ask them to go -- if anybody is listening, go next door and make sure your neighbors and friends are all right.
BALDWIN: Check on your neighbors. Don't panic. Do you have a note for people as far as calling 911? Because I imagine they're overwhelmed.
BREEDEN: They are -- there's numerous 911 calls, yes. And 911 certainly is when you need help, that's the place to call. I'm asking them to make
it for a real emergency and not for just information, because I'm understanding there is a number of people calling for information.
BALDWIN: As I'm talking to you, we've just had a second -- this image popping up on our screen. Guys, confirm to my ear, is this Ridgecrest? It
appears to be a house fire.
Mayor Breeden, this may be one of the five fires you were describing. It is absolutely raging. You see fire on the scene.
BREEDEN (via phone): Yes.
BALDWIN: Can you just give us an update? You said that you believe there have been five fires, but you're not entirely sure if they're -- if they're
under control.
BREEDEN: I do not know that officially. As I look around me, I can see smoke, but I cannot see -- I cannot see -- other than one, and that's still
black smoke. There's others that I'm sure, but I only know of the report.
BALDWIN: And you mentioned -- as we stay on these images, you mentioned checking in with -- was it an assisted living facility? Do they have
power? I mean, is power totally out where you are?
BREEDEN: In some places, it's out. In others, it isn't.
BALDWIN: Okay, okay. Ridgecrest, California, Mayor Peggy Breeden, you have many more people to talk to on the phone. Thank you so much for
jumping on with me. And my best to you.
BREEDEN: Thank you. All right. Thank you.
END
