Return to Transcripts main page

ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

Trump Says He Is Considering Executive Order To Allow Citizenship Question In 2020 Census; Source: Trump Frustrated With Secretary Wilbur Ross For Caving & Announcing Admin Abandoning Citizenship Question; Biden To CNN: Trump Is A "Bully" He'd "Smack" In The Mouth; President Trump: "I Don't Think I'm A Bully At All"; Harris' Second Quarter Fundraising Trails Buttigieg And Biden; Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) Is Interviewed About Kamala Harris' Presidential Run; Hickenlooper Speaks Out After Major Staff Shakeup. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 5, 2019 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, census showdown. The administration telling a federal judge it's now looking at all options to add a citizenship question to the census and Trump teases a possible executive order, but does he have a case? Plus, the President hitting back at Joe Biden after the former vice president called him a bully and said he'd smack him in the mouth. Is this the reset Biden needs? And Kamala Harris, releasing her latest fundraising numbers as she shifts her focus to Iowa, but is she too late to the game in that key state? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. Welcome to a special edition of OUTFRONT tonight. No consensus on the census. The administration telling a federal judge tonight, today that it's moving forward with plan to fight to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census even though they've already started printing it without the question. How do they plan to do this, that is the million dollar question tonight.

The President claims that he's considering a number of options, four to five he said including the power of the presidency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to issue an executive order on the census?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're thinking about doing that. It's one of the ways. We have four or five ways we can do it. It's one of the ways that we're thinking about doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: At the same time, his Department of Justice is still looking for ways to fight it out in court and take it back to the Supreme Court. For example ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You need it for many reasons, not the one you needed for Congress. You need it for Congress for districting. You need it for appropriations, where the funds going. How many people are there? Are they citizens? Are they not citizen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So he's making the case for the reasoning right there, but remember that that reason that the President gave there is not the reason that we've heard before just like four days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think it's very important to find out if somebody's a citizen as opposed to an illegal. I think there's a big difference to me between being a citizen of the United States and being an illegal and the Democrats want to treat the illegals with health care and with other things better than they treat the citizens of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And something of that sentiment just today being echoed by the man in charge of President Trump's citizenship agency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DIRECTOR, CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES: Frankly as part of the ongoing debate about how we deal both financially and legally with the burden of those who are not here legally. That is a relevant issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Are you confused? You should be. But this is important, because the reason and motivation behind adding the question into the census is everything. Our partisan politics driving this fight or maybe let's try door number three, the President also pointing to history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you look at the history of our country, it's almost always been asked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, it has asked, but not of everyone most of the time and certainly not since 1950, but regardless. The scramble and confusion is all because the president is demanding his Department of Justice find a legal path to carry out his wishes even though it appears no path exists right now. Abby Phillip is OUTFRONT live outside the White House for us tonight.

Abby, the President really seems to be undeterred on this front. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And so

undeterred that he's turning his old administration's plan upside down in order to pursue this without a clear path for victory. The President earlier this week when his Commerce Secretary announced that he wasn't moving forward got so much blowback from conservatives about this issue because it strikes at the core of something that is important to his base which is namely knowing who is a citizen and who is not and drawing a bright line between those two groups of people.

And so that is why we are where we are today, but the president trying to push forward on this signaling to his base that he's not giving up. And in the process throwing his Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross under the bus. Wilbur Ross was the one to say, "We're moving forward with the census." Printing these documents without that question.

And president Trump according to our sources has been frustrated with Ross believing that Ross gave up on this issue when he wants to fight. That's according to a source. So where we are right now is that the administration is basically struggling to come up with a plan and as you mentioned the president is falling back on something that he often does which is executive action saying I'm just going to file an executive order to fix this.

[19:05:00] The problem is it's not clear that that is even going to work, whether that will pass muster with the Supreme Court, that's already said. The administration needs to go back to the drawing board on the rationale for this. And so at the moment, the administration is simply trying to figure out a legal path forward and it all may not end up with the citizenship question being on the census at all, but at the end of the day President Trump gets to tell his base he did not give up on this very important fight for him, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Win or lose or draw the fight is exactly what President Trump is - you can see taking back to his political base on this very issue. It's great to see you, Abby. Thank you so much. As you can tell. It's all questions with very few answers right now, but let's see where we can get with this.

OUTFRONT now is Dale Ho. He's the Director of the Voting Rights Project for the ACLU. He's at the center of this legal fight against the Trump administration in the census citizenship question. Thank you so much for being here.

DALE HO, ACLU ATTORNEY, ARGUES CENSUS CASE BEFORE SUPREME COURT: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: OK. So the Department of Justice, they're going to continue this fight. From what you've now heard today, what is your response?

HO: Well, the Supreme Court blocked this question because it found that the Department of Justice and Commerce were not truthful. They essentially lied about why they put this question on the census and now their response to it is, "OK, you got us. Here's our real reason for doing it." Their response is, "Give us a few more days. We're going to come up with another story." And then you hear these different rationales emanating from different parts of the administration.

BOLDUAN: But the Supreme Court did say, "Go back to the drawing board, come back with another reason," even though, you're right, in Roberts' decision he did not, but clearly did not believe what Wilbur Ross was offering up.

HO: That's right. He said that it was contrived and now the administration is saying, "Give us a few more days. We're going to contrive something else and maybe you'll like what's behind door number three," as you put it.

BOLDUAN: So what's your take on the executive order? The president is considering an executive order to do this. If he does, what do you do?

HO: Well, it really doesn't make any difference if it's an executive order or a decision by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. Anything can be challenged in court. The President issued an executive order on the wall it was challenged in court and it was blocked. He issued an executive order rescinding DACA, it was challenged in court and that was blocked. And he issued an executive order on three versions of the travel ban, two of which were blocked in court and the third of which was at least litigated in court.

So it really doesn't make any difference for him to issue an executive order. If it's illegal, it's illegal.

BOLDUAN: When you list those things out, a lot of those took a lot of time in court.

HO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: This could be expedited, because we're looking at deadlines, of course, but are you concerned about this - I mean President Trump will fight this to the end. There's no downside for him on this.

HO: Well, I think the end is already happened here. The administration has said over and over again that no changes to the census form can be made after June 30th. Well, it's July 5th. I mean they never represented ...

BOLDUAN: That was clearly a fabricated - I feel like that was one of those self-imposed made-up deadlines, because now the deadline is October.

HO: Well, they said to the Supreme Court, "You need to hear this case now. You need to skip the intermediate appellate court. You need to expedite this case. You need to truncate the time that we had to brief this case." And for them now to go to the Supreme Court and say, "Haha, just kidding." Well, that's really not a good way to run a Justice Department.

BOLDUAN: Are you confident if this does end up back before the Supreme Court? It was a slim majority that blocked it this time. Are you confident you will prevail again? They did say come up with another reason no matter if it's logical or not to you or seems contrived or not to you, it could be another reason and it could end up back - it's been on the census before. It could end up back there again.

HO: Well. Look, I don't like to predict the outcomes of things, but I am confident we prevailed in the Supreme Court once because the administration was untruthful. Now, they have to come back and say, we not only do we have a new reason, we were also untruthful with you, Supreme Court, about the June 30th deadline. I mean this just smells of bad faith from top to bottom and I just can't imagine that the Supreme Court is going to give its blessing to this.

BOLDUAN: The reason behind this is everything, the motivation, why do you want to add it back on, that's exactly what really became the question before the Supreme Court. There are a couple of things I want to play for you because I want to get your take. One of them is Ken Cuccinelli who said today, he's now the Acting Director of President Trump Citizenship Agency. Let me play again what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUCCINELLI: Frankly as part of the ongoing debate about how we deal both financially and legally with the burden of those who are not here legally. That is a relevant issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: It's not entirely clear to me exactly what he's trying to say in that reasoning for putting the question on the census but what do you make of his reason?

HO: I'm not sure it's clear to him either, but the question that they're proposing to put on the census is a question are you a citizen or not, it wouldn't ask whether or not you're undocumented or not. So the very rationale that Mr. Cuccinelli is articulating there isn't one that could be advanced by a citizenship question. It wouldn't tell you anything about the undocumented population specifically.

[19:10:02] BOLDUAN: If we're being totally honest, it's complicated and simple all wrapped up into one. It's complicated to talk about the census, the citizenship question, when it started in 1790 and it continues and whatever. President Trump made one very basic argument that I want to play for you, about why he believes at his core the citizenship question matters. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're spending $15 billion to $20 billion on a census. We're doing everything. We're finding out everything about everybody. Think of it, $15 billion to $20 billion and you're not allowed to ask them are you a citizen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: On the most basic level, how is he wrong about that though?

HO: Well, we're not finding everything there is to know about everyone through the census. The census is actually a pretty simple survey. It has 10 questions on it and the reason why it's so simple is we need people to respond to it. If people don't respond to it, they're missed in the census and we don't get an accurate population count.

The Census Bureau has all other kinds of surveys to find out other information. The unemployment statistics for example, not determined through the decennial census, it's through a sample survey that happens on a monthly basis. If we want to know characteristics of the population like citizenship, like documented status.

There are ways of doing that without complicating the census, because you want the census to be as simple as possible so that people respond to it and we get an accurate head count.

BOLDUAN: Dale, do you see though the point that just the fight for the president is good for him politically?

HO: I can't comment on it politically one way or the other. I'm just a lawyer. I just litigate this.

BOLDUAN: I love the way you say that, I can't comment on anything, I'm just a lawyer. Thank you so much for being here. We'll see what happens next and we'll see if you're going to be arguing before the Supreme Court again very soon.

HO: Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you very much, I really appreciate your time. OUTFRONT for us next, Joe Biden calls Trump a bully. Is the President wise to take the bait?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't think I'm a bully at all. I just don't like being taken advantage of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Is this exactly what team Biden wanted? Plus, Kamala Harris releases her latest fundraising numbers and comes up, still a big number, but comes up short. Should her supporters be worried? And CNN exposes a second secret Facebook group connected to Border Patrol agents with vulgar posts about migrants, but tonight the President is defending border agents.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:52] BOLDUAN: Tonight, President Trump is rejecting the attack from Joe Biden and comments made in Biden's exclusive interview with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't think I'm a bully at all. I just don't like being taken advantage of. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But that is exactly what Biden says the President is in a fresh round of name-calling on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The idea that I'd be intimidated by Donald Trump, he's the bully that I knew my whole life. He's the bully that I've always stood up to. He's the bully I used to make fun when I was a kid that I stutter and I'd smack them in the mouth. Look, this is not - but I think the American people want a president who has some dignity, who has a value set, who is actually trying to restore the soul of this country. So when they turn on the television they look up and their kids say, "I want to be like that guy or that woman."

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT now, CNN's Arlette Saenz who's following the Biden campaign. Arlette, is team Biden happy that Trump is now sparring with Biden once again?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Kate, Biden's team see President Trump's willingness to engage with Joe Biden as just another sign that he is concerned about Biden becoming the Democratic nominee and having to face off against him in the fall as our colleagues over at the White House have reported, Trump's advisors have warned him against going after Joe Biden, bringing him up unwarranted because they don't want to elevate the former vice president any further.

But in that interview, that exchanged that he had with our colleague Chris Cuomo. Biden is really trying to reassure voters that he is ready to take on President Trump, despite that uneven debate performance where he was drawing friendly fire from his fellow Democrats like Kamala Harris.

So Biden in that interview really trying to just reinforce that notion that he is the best person prepared to take on President Trump. He also in that interview was pushing against this idea that there is a leftward tilt in the Democratic Party. Biden describing himself as center-left.

He thinks Democrats are more in line with that center-left view which also when you think about it can also play into a general election argument as Biden is hoping that he can pick off some of those previous Trump voters, Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, there's strategy to it all. Absolutely. Great to see you, Arlette. Thank you so much. OUTFRONT with me now, Rob Astorino, a member of President Trumps 2020 Re-Election Advisory Council, Jennifer Granholm, the former Democratic governor of Michigan. Thanks for being here, guys.

Governor --

FORMER GOVERNOR JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D-MI): You bet. BOLDUAN: -- you helped prep Biden for the debate. The candidate that

you see in this new interview smacking Trump in the mouth, calling him a bully, is this the reset you want to see?

GRANHOLM: Well, I love this interview. I thought it was a great interview. I think it shows that he is really ready to start punching at Trump and it allowed a more fulsome conversation, obviously, than debate allows. But I think Chris asked some really sharp questions and I think it will continue to - these conversations will continue to evolve. I like the fact that Biden was able to get out some more clear punches at the president because I think that's what Democrats want to see.

BOLDUAN: Biden is making adjustments, Rob. Does he look like a more formidable candidate?

ROB ASTORINO, MEMBER OF THE PRESIDENT'S 2020 RE-ELECT ADVISORY COUNCIL: No. And just calling him a bully, that's going to really scare Donald Trump who is used to tussling with anyone and everyone at any time. And if you hit him --

BOLDUAN: On any issue, real or imagined.

ASTORINO: Well, you know what, if you hit him he's going to hit you back twice as hard and Chris was bringing that up in the interview, "Are you ready to not only tussle but go after with everything you've got?" But I think and maybe the governor can answer this, I think before he gets to Trump, obviously, he's got to get through the Democratic primary.

And you saw it in the debate, he's tentative and I think the issues he had with women thinking he was being inappropriate to them, how is he going to respond now against a Kamala Harris or an Elizabeth Warren, two women who he's going to have to get past in order to win the nomination. It's a very delicate balance for him to attack them and yet he's got the whole issue of being inappropriate to women in the past.

[19:20:08] So that's a really tough balancing act that he's going to deal with.

(CROSSTALK)

ASTORINO: -- talking about sexually, I'm just talking about how he's going to treat them, because there's that dynamic in a debate against a woman or against the Donald Trump, a man, and you got to thread the needle if you're someone like Joe Biden.

GRANHOLM: OK. Let's just be really clear though. You are on the team of the guy who last week was accused of rape and has been a serial sexual predator against women.

ASTORINO: And nobody is taking it serious, it's so ridiculous.

GRANHOLM: That's all I'm saying is that you raising this issue about Joe Biden being close physically and proximity with women is just a completely apples and oranges thing. I do think the point about anybody who's going into this next debate thinking that they can play nice among Democrats, meaning that nobody is going to be attacked has been set straight. That is not going to happen.

This debate will be a battle clearly and I think that what Joe Biden raised today in his explanation that Democrats really want to be able to have an option to keep their private insurance and an option, a public option like to buy into Medicare is going to be one of those fault lines that you will see laid bare on the stage and I think that no one is going to be pulling punches.

BOLDUAN: Look, on the issue of pulling punches, I mean you've got Biden now, Governor, talking about smacking Trump in the mouth and then I want to play what Kamala Harris said just yesterday when asked if - a very similar question, is she ready basically to throw down against Trump, asked about this by a caucusgoer. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is so much to fight for and so much at stake and we can't afford to be lovely and then lose. So we need to know how to fight and there is no question in my mind also that we will win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Can't be lovely and lose. Do you think that's what Democrats really want to see for their candidates to get in the mud with Trump?

GRANHOLM: Are you asking me?

BOLDUAN: Yes. Sorry, Governor. Yes.

GRANHOLM: Yes. Yes. I do think that Democrats want to know, can you throw a punch back. It doesn't have to be getting into the mud it can be a strong solid punch. They want to know are you going to be a warrior on my behalf because Trump is a bully. He is that guy as Joe Biden said in the schoolyard and when you are bullied, you have one of two choices, you can either become a bully or you can stand up to bullies and that's what Joe Biden is expressing that he's going to do, that's what others want to do, that's what Kamala Harris is saying today.

"I am going to be a warrior on your behalf. I'm not going to have to get into the mud. There's so much that's obvious about what this president has brought our country sunk it down to. But let me just like one, quickly, the ...

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GRANHOLM: ... one of the bullies or the bullying series of comments really is important when it comes to these international affairs because Trump is seen to side with bullies and to be against our allies and that I think is going to be a legitimate and fair series of conversations that they have in the general election as well as in the primary.

BOLDUAN: Rob.

ASTORINO: Well, the whole sinking, the economy certainly is not sinking. The jobs report came out again today, a quarter of a million new jobs, manufacturing jobs, wage is up, lowest unemployment across the board for every sector. So they're going to have to run a campaign saying things are bad when people go, "It's really not bad. I'm at work. My salary is going up."

And talking about bullies, Trump is confronting people around the world, but doing it in a different way that's been done in the past. He's not sitting at a baseball game with Castro giving Cuba everything they want and getting nothing in return. Trump has taken a different path here and so far we haven't had bombs or at least reports of bombs coming over Hawaii when everyone was scattering.

That was the fear in the past. Now, Trump is here.

GRANHOLM: Well, that was the fear when Trump started going after Kim Jong-un and calling him rocket man. There were certainly a fear about that. That was under President Trump. That wasn't President Barack Obama.

ASTORINO: Yes. And look where we're at today. Look where we're at today. We've got relative piece around the world.

GRANHOLM: Well, and where are we? We don't see a denuclearized peninsula. We do not see that.

ASTORINO: But we're getting very close to it.

(CROSSTALK)

ASTORINO: I think we're getting a lot closer than we've ever been. For eight year I was ...

(Crosstalk)

BOLDUAN: I don't know. I don't know. I was going to say this. We have no evidence that there's been any change in terms of a nuclear in North Korea.

ASTORINO: How does Biden answer this question, eight years you sat there with President Obama and you turned a blind eye and North Korea is now this close to getting a nuclear bomb, so what did you do for eight years?

BOLDUAN: Factually, there is no evidence, guys. I'm going to end it here. But factually, Rob, there is no evidence that they're this close, this close or this close.

ASTORINO: OK, they're this close.

BOLDUAN: There's no evidence that anything is closer, nothing has been agreed to ... ASTORINO: And so why we're paying attention to North Korea? Who

cares?

BOLDUAN: You don't need to, I guess, but I think the rest of us should.

ASTORINO: Really?

BOLDUAN: All right. Guys, I think is going to be a very interesting primary general election. Thanks, guys.

GRANHOLM: It was.

[19:24:56] BOLDUAN: Thank you, Governor. You can watch much more of CNN's exclusive interview with Joe Biden tonight at eight o'clock. OUTFRONT for us next, Kamala Harris bringing her newfound momentum to Iowa and voters in the crucial state of Iowa are taking notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to show up and you've got to give them a chance to understand you and see who you are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And president Trump calling the country's migrant detention centers clean, good and beautifully run. The same centers one official has called a ticking time bomb.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:29:23] BOLDUAN: Welcome back to a special edition of OUTFRONT. Tonight, 2020 Kamala Harris coming up a bit short. Her campaign announcing the Senator raised just under $12 million in the second quarter. That's a big number. Don't get me wrong, but it's less than she raised in the first quarter, less than half of what another Democratic candidate, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, raised in the same amount of time. This comes as Harris makes a big push in the critical first in the nation state of Iowa, a state Harris hasn't paid as much attention to as some of her rivals. Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Senator Kamala Harris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:30:00] KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kamala Harris makes her first swing through Iowa since the Democratic debate.

[19:30:04] And she works the crowd, her breakout debate moment with Joe Biden comes up again and again.

SUE AMOSSON, WEST DES MOINES RESIDENT: After the debates, I really confirmed my support for her. I love Joe Biden. I think he is a wonderful guy. But I think we need new ideas. We need new younger people.

LAH: Thirty new Harris workers started this week to capitalize on the latest Iowa poll showing her in second place behind Biden and catch up with the organizations built in the state by rivals Elizabeth Warren and Cory Booker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she is quite frankly maybe the only one that can beat the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the White House.

LAH: But Chris Tench remains skeptical.

CHRIS TENCH, WEST DES MOINES RESIDENT: I think she needs to pay more attention to Iowa. I mean, we are the first caucus. And that's where she needs to be.

LAH (on camera): What happens if she continues this way?

TENCH: People snub her. You know, they'll just think that she just doesn't care.

LAH (voice-over): She is talking about the emphasize Harris put into Iowa. Harris has made five visits to Iowa, holding fewer events than Bernie Sanders, Cory Booker and Elizabeth Warren, while she and Booker have done the most in South Carolina, where Harris will make her ninth trip this weekend.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What's up, South Carolina.

LAH: South Carolina remains central to Harris ace path for the nomination. But the last Democrat to win the nomination without winning Iowa was Bill Clinton in 1992.

(on camera): A lifelong Iowan who says she felt you haven't paid enough to Iowa. What do you tell a voter like her?

HARRIS: I care deeply about Iowa and the state which is why we are putting the kind of resources we put in. I don't know how many times I've been here already and will come back.

ROB SAND (D), IOWA STATE AUDITOR: I think we're going to see polls change throughout. I think people will have their moments.

HARRIS: Iowa state auditor Rob Sand beat an incumbent winning in 2018. As a caucus state, one-on-one contact is crucial to win, said Sand.

SAND: You've got to show up and you've got to give them a chance to understand you and see who you are.

HARRIS: We will win this election.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE) LAH: Shortly after Kamala Harris' last event here in Iowa in Sioux City, her campaign released how much she had fund raised in the second quarter. That number is nearly $12 million per her campaign. That is it just under what she had raised in the first quarter.

If you compare where she is with the rest of the pack, Pete Buttigieg leads in how much he raised in the second quarter at $24.8 million. Joe Biden at $21.5 million. Bernie Sanders at $18 million followed by kamala Harris -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Kyung, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT with me now, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Lee of California. She has endorsed Senator Harris.

Congresswoman, thanks for being here endorsed Harris.

REP. BARBARA LEE (D-CA): My pleasure. Glad to be with you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thanks.

Are you concerned -- on the Iowa question -- are you concerned the Harris campaign is late to the game in Iowa?

LEE: No, kamala Harris is paying a lot of attention to Iowa. She has been there for the last two days. And I'm telling you there have been overflow crowds.

And I think people in Iowa really know what we've known for many years, and that is the more you get to know Kamala, the more you hear Kamala, the more you understand and support her. But also the more you understand her policies and support her policies.

She is building out her infrastructure in Iowa and in New Hampshire with over 100 volunteers. And she is going to continue to build momentum in Iowa because she understands very well that the needs of Iowans. And she really wants to be there over and over and over again because she intends to win there.

BOLDUAN: One indicator of support is often money. And the Harris campaign announced today that they raised just under $12 million in the second quarter, puts her behind Buttigieg, Biden and Sanders in terms of the candidates who announced second quarter totals. As a member of Congress, you know how important fund raising is. And as a supporter, are you disappointed?

LEE: Absolutely not. When you look at kamala Harris, she has raised over $25 million throughout the campaign. The second quarter she has 150,000 new donors. Right after the debate, she raised $3 million.

And let me tell you what is so important about this. She has a broad- base of support. Her average donation is $39. Her average online donation is $24.

And then when you look at the fact that after the campaign half of the new donors were -- half of the donors, excuse me, were new donors. So, she is right on track, she's working very hard and going to win this campaign and she's raising the kind of money that she needs to win.

BOLDUAN: Yes, you got to keep raising the money as you well know.

[19:35:02] Got to keep -- because you'll spend a lot of it, you got to raise it. And --

LEE: That's right and she is demonstrating that she can raise it and especially how she is raising it from small donors. I mean, $34 is the average donation, $24 online. That says a lot about the people that she is connecting with who support her.

BOLDUAN: For everyone at home that gives you a lot of room to grow in how much people are giving you, and your base. And this exclusive interview that Joe Biden did with CNN, he said that he wasn't prepared for the attack that came at him at the debate from Kamala Harris. Let me play you what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was prepared for them to come after me. But I wasn't prepared for the person coming at me the way she came at me. She knew Beau. She knows me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Harris today was asked about that statement and she said she didn't no what to say about that remark. What do you say about it?

LEE: Well, first of all, let me just say -- I watched the debate and I understand how personal this is for Senator Harris. As it is for millions of Americans, especially for African-Americans, and for myself. I remember very well the days before Brown versus Board of Education.

I could not attend public school with white children. And it's the federal government, Kate -- it's the federal government, the busing, the mandatory busing, that really did allow for the integration of schools. And so, when you look at our federal government it's extremely important to recognize that it's the federal government that has -- has provided for equal access for our voting rights, civil rights. And now we are fighting for the equality act for LGBTQ rights.

And so, Kamala Harris understands this very personally. And I think that when she said what she said, she really did understand that this was wrong and wanted to make sure that -- that the vice president understood that working with segregationists to oppose busing affected millions of people. And we want our federal government to support the rights of minorities.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Much more to come.

OUTFRONT for us next: a border agent calling out other border agents for humiliating a migrant in custody. This as more shocking social media posts are exposed.

Plus, 2020 candidate John Hickenlooper is OUTFRONT. Will a major campaign shake-up give him the momentum he needs to take on the top tier? The former Colorado governor is my guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:21] BOLDUAN: Tonight, President Trump is not only defending Customs and Border Patrol but also applauding the conditions inside migrant detention centers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've seen some of those places. And they are run beautifully. They are clean. They are good. They do a great job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He says this despite a government-produced report released this week detailing dangerous overcrowding and unhealthy and unsanitary conditions, even calling these facilities in in report a ticking time bomb.

And now, CNN is learning of another secret Facebook group linked to customs and border agents filled with racist and offensive posts about migrant -- migrant families and Democratic lawmakers.

Let's go to the border town of El Paso, Texas, Natasha Chen is OUTFRONT.

Natasha, the posts in the now -- in the now second Facebook group uncovered are just as offensive as the first. What are you learning about it tonight?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, it's supposedly called the real CBP. And they are very disturbing posting. We have seen a couple of images obtained by our colleague Nick Valencia.

One of them shows Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez standing neck to a water fountain and pointing to with a caption saying, is this a toilet? That refers to her comments earlier in the week where migrants told her that they were forced to drink out of a toilet?

We have seen another meme where Border Patrol agents make light of family separations. We also know that there have been demeaning comments posted about agents and African-Americans. So, this is pretty disturbing even to Facebook.

Facebook spokesperson told us this that they took down some of the content from the secret group because it violated some Facebook policies. Here is part of the quote from a spokesperson there saying: We believe in giving people a voice but we also want everyone using Facebook to feel safe. That's why we have community standards and remove anything that violates them.

We also know from a CBP spokesperson saying that this alleged content does not reflect the values of the agency, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Natasha, there is also now another border patrol agent coming forward to call out their colleagues, making accusations of humiliating migrants inside a detention facility. What can you tell me about that?

CHEN: Yes, this supposedly happened in early March where a border patrol agent witnessed coworkers handing a handwritten note to a Honduran migrant the note read, I like men in Spanish and he was made to walk through holding the note. We know from emails obtained by our colleague Nick Valencia that this Border Patrol agent witnessing the behavior approached called it out as unprofessional, actually alerted a senior Border Patrol agent in charge that evening but nothing was done according to the emails.

Those emails also show that this witnessing agent said this incident was just one of many. And so, now, Kevin McAleenan has called for investigation into that incident -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: A lot of investigations now under way under Kevin McAleenan's authority.

Thank you so much, Natasha. I really appreciate it.

Coming up, 2020 contender John Hickenlooper urged by some of his own staff to drop run for the presidency and instead run for Senate. Is he considering that option? John Hickenlooper is my guest.

And Jeanne Moos on why Ivanka Trump is showing up just about everywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:42] BOLDUAN: Tonight, the fight for 2020. The Democrats running for president are fanned out on this Fourth of July holiday weekend from New Hampshire to Nevada, from Texas to Iowa. That is where former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper is headed. His first major campaign swing since a big staff shakeup was announced, with three key positions leaving the team -- the campaign manager, finance director and spokeswoman on their way out.

What does this mean for Hickenlooper now? The governor joins me now.

Governor, thanks for being here.

JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My pleasure. Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

What does this staff shake-up mean? What should folks take from it, governor? Should this be a bad sign about your campaign?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, no. I think I'm excited about where we're going and I think, you know, that I want to find, you know, the meat of what I've been trying to say and say it in a different way. I mean, I'm running for president because this country, I think, I think Trump has been fueling a national crisis of division, and I think a lot of what I've done both as an entrepreneur and small business owner, but also as a mayor and a governor really directly speaks to that.

I feel like, you know, that I haven't been successful at expressing some of the solutions we've created that would be scalable for the entire country.

[19:50:02] BOLDUAN: One source told CNN that some of the staff on your team -- that more staff on your team could be on their way out, though. Is that the case?

HICKENLOOPER: I don't think so, but you never know. I look at -- well, I look at what we have assembled, all these really talented people, and this opportunity where, again, I think I'm the one person out there who's actually done the big progressive things that everyone else is talking about, right? In Colorado, we got to near universal health care. The last three years according to "U.S. News and World Report", the number one economy in the country. We passed tough new gun laws in terms of universal background checks.

I mean, these are things that most of the other candidates talk about but haven't actually done.

BOLDUAN: Fund-raising numbers are rolling out right now, as the deadlines have come and gone. Kamala Harris announced today what her second quarter fund-raising numbers are, just under $12 million in the second quarter.

Your campaign hasn't released yours yet. Will you be releasing them soon, or can you tell us what you raised?

HICKENLOOPER: I think we're going to release them next week and there's a whole process to rolling them out. We have to have enough resources to be able to get that message out. We want to make sure that people in Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina --

BOLDUAN: Are you confident that you have enough resources coming in to continue getting that message out?

HICKENLOOPER: Yes, I think so. I think that we -- the challenge here is making sure that the message is something that people hear and they connect with. If that happens, a successful message spreads like wildfire. You just have to find -- well, you have to make sure it's the right message.

BOLDUAN: What have you been getting -- I mean, you say you need to rejigger it, if you will. What have you been getting wrong so far? What's the change now, Governor?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think I've talked so much about policy and my record, and I think the record is important to be able to -- you know, when I was mayor, we were the first big American city to get to universal preschool. We were able to do major police reform ten years before Ferguson. And we emphasized that record upfront. I'm not sure, I think maybe it's equally important that people know

that I was out of work for two years. When I came out to Colorado as a geologist in 1981 and commodity prices tanked in the mid-'80s, we all got laid off and it's tough. You know, when you've been out of work for a couple years and you begin to see a different person in the mirror, you know, that's a side of me that a lot of people haven't seen and haven't heard.

I take responsibility. I control what comes out of my mouth. I hadn't expressed those sides of myself in a way that would connect with people.

BOLDUAN: In terms of reworking your strategy and how you present yourself, you are a centrist, you're a moderate. That's the lane that you have claimed.

Joe Biden, the front-runner, is also, especially in this new CNN interview, forcefully staking claim in a moderate lane. How can you make headway if you've got the front-runner and you jammed up in the same lane?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, certainly -- and I have tremendous respect for vice president Biden. But we have led very different lives over the last 30 years.

You know, I spent 15 years as an entrepreneur, a small business owner. I started a business from scratch. The rent was $1 per square foot per year. We had to watch every nickel and I tried to work with our staff as a family to build what became a very, very successful business.

Then I went in and I was a mayor. In a couple years there, "Time" magazine called me one of the top five city mayors. That's a different background than Vice President Biden's.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, Governor, because you're being really candid about the trouble you had with the campaign with so far. Can you guarantee me if you make the debate stage we're going to see you in Detroit for the CNN debate?

HICKENLOOPER: If -- say that again?

BOLDUAN: Can you guarantee that you're going to stick this through, at least to the CNN debate?

HICKENLOOPER: Yes, absolutely, I'll be there, I promise.

BOLDUAN: All right. Just double checking. Great to see you, Governor. Thank you for being here. See you on the trail.

HICKENLOOPER: You bet.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT for us next, Jeanne Moos on Ivanka Trump showing -- Ivanka Trump is showing up in some, just take a look at that, very unlikely places, like with the Beatles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:45] BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump is defending his daughter Ivanka on the world stage, saying foreign leaders, quote, loved her. But the internet isn't so convinced.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From landing on the moon to landing with the pilgrims, Ivanka Trump has been everywhere lately, thanks to a video showing a moment when the president's daughter tried to join a conversation with heavyweights like the leaders of France and Britain at the G-20 summit. Resulting in awkward body language that some read as what's she doing here?

And thus was born, #unwantedIvanka, crashing the last supper, joining Yoko Ono and John in bed, walking across Abbey Road with the Beatles, barging in on Nixon and Elvis.

The meme rocked Twitter as Ivanka sat across a beam with construction workers and spied on a royal wedding kiss.

It was the French government that posted the snippet that inspired the meme. Now the French are saying oops, telling "Politico", we didn't anticipate the action. We are not responsible for the use made of the clip.

How would they know Ivanka would end up amid Egyptian hieroglyphics, clinging to the Loch Ness Monster, at risk of being kicked by U.S. soccer star Megan Rapinoe, adrift with Jack and Rose after the sinking of the Titanic.

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: Rose, promise me that you'll survive.

MOOS: #unwantedIvanka has survived for days. The White House blamed Ivanka haters, telling "Vanity Fair" they were absolutely pathetic.

TRUMP: Has anyone ever heard of Ivanka?

MOOS: It had been a high-profile trip for the president's daughter. She even made North Korean TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ivanka Trump --

MOOS: After Korea, she made stops from everywhere from Brokeback Mountain, to Rush Ivanka, transported by bike like E.T. and like E.T., Ivanka took off. She was even spotted in O.J.'s bronco, #unwantedIvanka riding with a wanted man.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.