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Military Admonishes White House on Climate Change; David Titley, Retired Rear Admiral, The Center of Climate and Security, is Interviewed About Climate Change; Remake of "Gloria Bell", a Spanish Romantic Drama; Julianne Moore, Actress, and John Turturro, Actor, are Interviewed About the Film, "Gloria Bell.". Aired 1-2p ET
Aired July 9, 2019 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Today, we're looking back at some of
our favorite interviews from this year. So, here's what's coming up.
Don't ignore the military on climate, Mr. President, so say dozens of former security officials in a letter to the White House. And we hear from
one of the signatories, Retired Rear Admiral David Titley.
Then, Hollywood stars, Julianne Moore and John Turturro, as the dating divorcees looking for love in "Gloria Bell."
Plus, the second part of our interview with rock star, Lenny Kravitz. Music to his fans' ears after touring for three decades, he's going to be
busier than ever.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
It's clear that some of the Trump administration's more maverick ideas and actions are sparking significant counter reactions. More than 50 former
military and intelligence officials have written to the president, criticizing a plan to counter the government's own findings on climate
The signatories which include rear admirals and major generals admonished the White House about its plan to establish an ad hoc group to scrutinize
federal reports, including the recent climate report, which warned that global warming will hammer the U.S. economy and kill thousands of American
citizens by the end of the century. The open letter also says U.S. National Security will be eroded if government scientists are subject to
Retired Rear Admiral David Titley was once a climate change skeptic but he signed the letter. He was chief. oceanographer for the Navy and ran its
task force on climate change and is now a board member of the Center of the Climate and Security, and he's joining me from Richmond Virginia.
Rear Admiral Titley, welcome to the program
DAVID TITLEY, RETIRED REAR ADMIRAL, THE CENTER OF CLIMATE AND SECURITY: Thank you very much, Christiane. Great to be here.
AMANPOUR: So, look, this is quite a significant step. I mean, normally the military and security officials stay in lockstep, they -- you know,
they serve their country and they don't come out in dozens and dozens like you have to criticize and warn the administration. What was it that that
forced your hand, so to speak?
TITLEY: Well, really, you're exactly right. This is really a nonpartisan issue. And what concerns so many of us who signed the letter is this is a
blatant attempt by the National Security Council to politicize the security aspect of climate change.
And if they are successful, it really puts a chill, no pun intended, into the Department of Defense, the Intelligence Community, our U.S. science
agencies and to even trying to talk or I would say speak truth to power about the risks of climate change to our security.
AMANPOUR: What do you mean specifically? I mean, I -- we've all read but maybe we need to be reminded of the latest climate report that was, you
know, done by the federal agencies, I mean, it was the government's own report and this is to push back from the administration. What specific
issues are you concerned that you say are being, you know, sort of influenced by political whims and ideology?
TITLEY: So, this has been an evolving story, as I'm sure many of your viewers know. Originally, about three weeks ago, the administration,
specifically the National Security Council, wanted to basically revisit and frankly, in their memo said in an adversarial sense the link between
climate change and security, which is being very well established.
Things have evolved since then. And now, it looks like the National Security Council wants to, in fact, open up really all of the peer reviewed
science, 150 years of peer reviewed science, and that's just -- frankly, it's kind of kind of crazy that we think that, you know, three guys and two
beers are going to overturn an over a century of peer reviewed science peer reviewed by thousands of individuals by 80 countries and National Academies
of science. So, that's sort of just wrong on the facts.
The risks of climate change, I really think of them in three ways. We are changing the very operating environments in which our forces are going to
have to be successful. And in fact, the commander of all U.S. forces in the European theater, General Scaparrotti was just testifying before
Congress about how the changes to climate in the Arctic are changing what Russia is able to do and that in turn, is changing what his command has to
The threats to our bases and to our training ranges, to our infrastructure, not only from [13:05:00] rising seas and storm surge but also freshwater,
too many hot and humid days that impair training, wildfires and droughts and finally, there is a geostrategic impact on climate change where a
climate impact when combined with bad governance or poor governance or insufficient governance can keep an already unstable or fragile situation
and frankly, make it a catastrophe, a humanitarian catastrophe, you know, security catastrophe and I would argue that Syria is kind of a poster child
AMANPOUR: Well, I'm going to dig down at some -- into some of that in a moment because whether it's Syria or Central America where you see people
fleeing and there's conflicts and -- from Central America obviously coming to the United States and causing huge kerfuffle there with -- at the
But just to be clear, the latest climate report, you know, was findings from 13 departments, energy, defense, NASA, State Department, et cetera.
You are a rear admiral and you've talked directly to the threats to the navies. You know, give us some specifics of what you're most concerned
I know you talked about Russia and its ability to, you know, take advantage of melting ice, we've seen the leaders of the U.S. Naval base at Norfolk,
Virginia are very concerned about what will happen to their base if the seas rise. But from the from your perspective having been in the Navy and
having been around the world, what are some of the other risks of not taking this seriously?
TITLEY: Well, that the overall risk, Christiane, is the very operating environment in which we all work in which we live is changing, it's
changing rapidly, it's changing before our eyes. So, the very -- sort of the highest level of concern that we have here for the Pentagon is this is
really about being ready, it's about being ready for the future and whether that's for an opening Arctic, whether that's to make sure that our bases
and our training ranges can still be effective, whether that's for preparing for future conflicts that we might not have had otherwise had
climate change, not being sort of that forcing function, that tipping point. So, we need to be ready.
For the Intelligence Community, it's identifying risks, that's really what they try to do, is they try to get ahead and they try to identify risks and
threats so that we can manage them, we have options, we have maneuver room, if you will. And if we cannot identify the threats and if the Pentagon is
hamstrung politically from being ready for a changing environment, that impairs our security, that imperils our security and this is why we had so
many distinguished, both civilians and retired military officers signed the letter you mentioned.
AMANPOUR: So, I mean, again, I'm going to get into the war in Syria and what some people also say, you know, extremists can be recruited because of
climate change when there's not enough water, when agriculture and villages lose their crops and their livestock, well then they are very vulnerable to
being recruited for a bit of money by the extremists, and we understand that is a lot of what happened in Syria and Iraq.
But I want to get back to why is it then here in the United States of America that this government's own dire warning which talked about the
great impact to the U.S. economy and to U.S. lives within the next, you know, foreseeable future is being so deliberately attacked by the
administration to the point that, you know, you have this White House adviser, William Happer, you know, he is possibly going to play a key role.
I mean, this hasn't actually fully been greenlit yet, I don't know think this ad hoc challenge. But he, for instance, founded the CO2 Coalition
which says carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is good for the planet. I just want to play a little -- it's kind of like a PSA for this movement. Let's
just play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if there was something that can make plants grow bigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And something not to make the world greener.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All those plants could free the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if it was invisible?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we would never run out of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, look at that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CO2.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CO2, who knew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CO2 is amazing. CO2 is essential. See for yourself at CO2Coalition.org.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I mean, you could be forgiven for thinking you're living in a parallel universe when you see that but that is out there and it's meant to
be helping educate children, as you saw clearly. What is your reaction to that and, you know, I don't know what to ask you really?
TITLEY: Exactly. I mean, it's like where to start. So, I guess the first thing I would say is, of course, we need [13:10:00] some amount of carbon
dioxide, it's absolutely true that plants use carbon dioxide and we need some amount of greenhouse gases to keep this planet habitable. Nobody
argues that, everybody understands that.
But just like you can have too much of a good thing. We need water for survival but too much water is fatal and it kills us. We need warmth for
survival but too much heat is fatal and it kills us. We do need some degree and a stable amount of greenhouse gases but ever-increasing amounts
by the billions of tons each year fundamentally alter our planet, it alters the very ecosystems. And when we have 8, 9, nearly 10 billion people on
this planet, life, if we do not control this, will be fundamentally different and we do not know how that will evolve over the coming decades
So, yes, of course you need some degree of CO2, right. I think your words of this is a parallel universe are correct. And this is why I've stated
that Dr. Happer is really a fringe figure, even within the climate to dial community and, you know, that's a tough accolade to earn but I think he's
AMANPOUR: And, you know, apparently -- well, as I said he founded the CO2 Coalition but is received over a million dollars in funding from the energy
industry and some conservative lobbyists. So, there's all that to unpick as well.
But, you know, let's just talk about your own evolution. You were a skeptic about all of this and you've come on board and you know there's a
lot of skepticism, mostly in the conservative community, whether it's in the medical community or the religious community or whatever.
How do you think that they -- what do you say to them from your own, you know, position of having been a skeptic and do you think that people are
going to put up with this thing, you know, the government's own, you know, dire warnings on national security which are usually held very dear to
conservatives, very strong on national security? Can they be convinced?
TITLEY: So, I found, Christiane, that, you know, unfortunately, every person is somewhat different and, you know, if there was just one easy
solution, you know, we would snap our fingers or wave a wand and we would be done. But just individuals, you really have to listen to a person and
find out what are their concerns.
Many times -- sometimes people do have -- they just don't understand the science, and that's actually pretty easy to explain to people. I tell
folks that the basics of climate science has been known for well over a century, it was actually all figured out of the 19th century, and what we
have done in the intervening times is simply refined and increased greatly our confidence that the knowledge of people like Foriag (ph) and Tyndall
and Arenhus (ph) hoose was in fact correct.
But oftentimes, it's not really about the science. This issue has unfortunately been seen as a proxy issue, for science it's a proxy. The
real issues are ideology. There are some people who do not want the government to tell them what to do or how to do things. People are
concerned about the price of energy. And some people believe that if the United States takes action on this issue but if other countries don't, then
they're going to lose their jobs and let's see if you're some 40-something- year-old guy, you know, it's tough to go and start again in midlife and get a job.
And I've found many times the issues are not the science but the -- but people are concerned and afraid, frankly, about what the implications are.
So, I tell people, "The climate scientists are not going to solve this. This is really the social scientist and leadership which will help people
understand that we do have to attack this issue because the greater good of society is going to be the imperiled if we don't."
AMANPOUR: And just to not put too fine a point on it but to really illustrate your journey, you describe yourself as a bit of a -- bit like a
reform smoker on this, that you've developed zeal for this position right now because of what happened to you back in 2005 during Hurricane Katrina.
We've got pictures of your house before and after. So, why don't you narrate for us what happened to you.
TITLEY: OK. So, I'm not sure if you have the before picture but I was in one of my jobs in the Navy when I was in command of the Navy's weather and
ocean prediction capabilities, we're down on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi, right on the Mississippi-Louisiana border. And my wife and I were able to
buy fairly modest house, about three houses up from the Mississippi.
And if you go to the after picture, this is what happens, I tell people, if you ever wonder what a 10-meter storm surge or a 25 to 30-foot storm surge
does coming up your street. And [13:15:00] when I say we lost our house; we actually did quite literally lose our house. And to this day we still
haven't really found it, it either went in the railway tracks or got sucked out into the ocean.
And we were absolutely, for a whole variety of reasons, some of the most fortunate people on the Mississippi Coast, for just a number of personal
reasons. But what concerns me about this is as the seas come up and as hurricanes, when they form, or typhoons or cyclones, when they form, the
evidence is increasing that they will be bigger and wetter and slower and stronger, and all of that leads to more destruction by water, not by wind
but by the water. And that will cause security issues if we cannot handle that.
AMANPOUR: OK. So, on the flip side of that, that's too much water, too little water because of climate change in places like Syria and others
where they have massive droughts, has been blamed him impart for stocking the Syria war. I know you've looked at that quite carefully. Explain how
that might have sparked the war.
TITLEY: So, just very briefly, this is a decades-long story, it really starts with Assad coming into power, wanting to be self-sufficient in some
stable grains like barley. He achieves that and he achieves that in the 90s but at the expense of draining aquifers, draining surface water. Of
course, the Iraqi war comes along, it's a non-climate event but it does put a million Iraqi refugees into the cities pressurizes, as your viewers know
so well, the existing tensions and it's not like Assad's really taking care of his people.
Fast forward to a decade ago, and we have one of the worst all-time droughts in Syria and of course, it's already a dry region but this was an
exceptional drought and the science community can, with very high confidence, attribute the severity of that drought to the change in our
climate. And then you have three quarters of a million of Syrian farmers who have nothing, they just have nothing because their crops are totally
failed and they too come into the cities.
And as you mentioned earlier on in the program, you now have these millions and billions of both Syrian farmers and Iraqi refugees in the cities, the
government is not taking care of them, in fact, they're fomenting tensions and ethnic hatreds and it becomes a breeding ground for extremists and it
becomes very easy to recruit for varying extreme ideologies because people are desperate, they want some shelter, they want safety, they want water,
they want food, and this is really the poster child, if you will, for how climate was one of the links --
TITLEY: -- you know, chain of events that leads to this catastrophe.
AMANPOUR: All right. Well, you've really laid it out in dramatic technicolor there. Rear Admiral Titley, thank you for joining us.
And from the threat of climate change to the dangers of artificial intelligence. Later in the show our Hari Sreenivasan talks to the
futurist, Amy Webb.
But first now, we turn to a wonderful story about a divorcee in a boring job, who likes to belt out pop tunes as she's driving and she likes to bop
on the disco stroll at night.
On paper, it is not a classic Hollywood romance. Take a quick look at this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIANNE MOORE, ACTRESS, "GLORIA BELL": I love you. It's your mother.
HOLLAND TAYLOR, ACTRESS, "GLORIA BELL": Life just goes by in a flash, like that.
MOORE: I know. You tell me the same thing every 10 years.
JOHN TURTURRO, ACTOR, "GLORIA BELL": You come here a lot?
MOORE: Yes. No, not a lot. I mean, sometimes.
TURTURRO: What's your name?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: "Gloria Bell" is an English language remake of the Spanish romantic drama Gloria by the same Chilean director, Sebastian Lelio.
Actor John Turturro plays Julianne Moore's shambling boyfriend. And I got to speak to both of these Hollywood supernovas when they joined me from New
Julianne Moore and John Turturro, welcome to the program.
TURTURRO: Thank you.
MOORE: Thank you for having us.
AMANPOUR: Well, it's really a great pleasure. This is a mega heavyweight bit of star power we have on our program. And I want to ask you about this
amazing film, "Gloria Bell." What made you -- I know, Julianne, I think you were the sort of engine behind getting it remade. It was a film that
was done in Chile and the director, you persuaded him to do it again. Why? What about it attracted you?
MOORE: Well, saw -- I mean, I saw his original film, the Chilean film and loved it and was so, so moved and so struck by the humanity of Sebastian's
work. And we share a manager and so, I really, really wanted to get to meet him but there was sort of a misunderstanding.
We -- he was living in Berlin and I met him in Paris and he had heard that I had no interest in remaking the film. And so, we had this -- and with
this long, you know, meeting and at the very end of it he said, "Well, thank you so much. You know, I know that you're not interested in making
this." I said, [13:20:00] "Oh, no, no, no. I said, I would only do it if you directed it." And he said, "Oh, well, then I would only direct it if
you were in it." And then suddenly we kind of found ourselves doing it.
But that being said, it's so unusual to actually have a meeting and then have something come out of a meeting, right?
MOORE: You know, so the fact that it happened, it was really extraordinary.
AMANPOUR: And before we get into the story -- the storyline, John, what about it made you want to join, you know, these two who are so passionate
about doing it? What was it that attracted you to this role in the film?
TURTURRO: Well, I actually saw that your original film and I loved it. You don't see that many films about a woman of a certain age, you know,
trying to rediscover herself and no one's paying attention to her, I just thought it was a beautiful film. And then I know Julianne a long time but
we never actually acted together.
TURTURRO: And I thought Sebastian was a -- you know, he's terrific director. And sometimes it's really the company that you keep, not always,
you know, the role. And it was a tremendously creative experience.
AMANPOUR: So, actually, that's really interesting, wanting to work with certain people. And I guess, you know, you're both at a certain stage in
your career where you can actually make these decisions. How sort of empowering and liberating is that? Especially for you, Julianne, because,
I mean, women of a certain age, I think we're all around the same age, the three of us, it's not so obvious in Hollywood.
MOORE: Well -- but why say certain age? I mean, I actually -- I have to say, like I take -- I want to comment on that because like why would you
say that because you wouldn't say that about men, you know --
MOORE: -- and I don't think there's anything pejorative about any age, and that's what's kind of great about Gloria and Gloria Bell too, is that this
character could be anywhere or anyone, you know. So, what really is unique about it is that kind of intimate observation of as a person throughout
their life when nothing extraordinary happens, when it's just like, you know, you get up, you go to work --
MOORE: -- you meet your friends, you go dancing, you meet a guy, you know, all that comes to -- that kind of observation of someone's life, that's
what was really fascinating about it. And it could have been a man, you know, it could have been a younger woman, it could be whatever. But I do
think that -- and also, she's someone -- the trick that Sebastian has too is that she's someone who's sometimes a secondary character in the scene
that she's playing.
MOORE: So, we have a whole --
MOORE: -- like lunch date with --
MOORE: -- Rita Wilson and I actually only have one line in it.
MOORE: And so, everybody else is talking and Gloria is just listening but the camera stays on her in a weird sort of way. So, that's what the trick,
is like how do you -- this person who might be ordinarily a secondary character even in a scene is the one who's a primary character in the film.
AMANPOUR: I mean, look, it's complex and it's subtle and it's really interesting. I personally beg to differ, I don't think it would be as
interesting if it was younger people, a younger -- I think what's really, really interesting is that you are, you know, middle aged in the film,
John, you're middle age in the film, you've both gone through marital disruptions, you've been divorced for a long time. And you, your
character, Julianne, is Gloria, you go --
AMANPOUR: -- through -- you do this -- you go out and you dance on your own and maybe get --
AMANPOUR: -- picked up and there's nothing pejorative or sleazy or weird about it, and that, I think, is interesting because it's not easy to do
that at any age, frankly.
MOORE: No, it isn't.
MOORE: I mean, she's remarkably brave. I think just the way that -- what really struck me about this character is that she -- the way she engages in
her life with her relationships, with her family members, with her friends, with her boyfriend, with the world. You know, the fact that she's always
willing to try new things. And she's -- and sometimes she'll little more than you'd recommend, right. You know, sometimes you're like -- as an
audience you're like, "Oh, no. Don't do that," and then she does it the way that we all kind of do sometimes. So -- yes.
AMANPOUR: So, let me just play the first clip that we have and it's when, John, you -- your character meets her character at the bar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURTURRO: So, are you always this happy?
MOORE: No. Well, you asked me and I laughed, that's all. No. Some days I'm happy, some days I'm not.
TURTURRO: Like everyone.
MOORE: Like everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: You know, [13:25:00] watching that clip again, John, I really -- given what you've all just been saying, I realize how ordinary the dialogue
is. I mean, that seems to be --
AMANPOUR: -- very ordinary dialogue, it's not highly stylized.
TURTURRO: No, no.
TURTURRO: There's something kind of Jacovian (ph) about Sebastian's approach --
TURTURRO: -- because he's really into the behavior and actually what occurs in the space between people --
TURTURRO: -- and what doesn't occur. And I think that was what was the fascinating part of the experience.
TURTURRO: I mean, he asked us to do certain things, I think both of us was -- can be strong willed and we just tried it whenever he did --
MOORE: Yes, yes.
TURTURRO: -- because he's so sensitive and smart and intelligent.
MOORE: And so, interested in nuance, you know.
MOORE: He would ask for another take simply because he wanted to see like what else would happen, what if you dug a little bit deeper on something
that seemed really, really simple.
MOORE: And it was interesting because you -- I would get lost sometimes thinking like, "Well, I don't know what I'm going for." But in a way, what
happens is that you end up reverting to just being present, which is what you want to accomplish in a film like this.
AMANPOUR: It actually sounds like a lot of -- I mean, fun in the real sort of professional craft way of fun. It sounds like you really had the luxury
of an amazing threesome, really. I mean, you two and Sebastian, who you both obviously respect so much and know so much.
Gloria is divorced for more than 10 years and she seems to be at ease, you -- you're busy belting out hits from the 80s as you're driving. I wonder
how kind of revealing that was for you to be singing in front of the whole world. Was that kind of mortifying or did you enjoy it? I mean, you were
MOORE: Thank you. I mean, you know, it's -- I think the dancing was the hardest part for me.
MOORE: John really is a dancer, you know. He loves to dance and he takes salsa lessons regularly. I am not a dancer. So, for me, that was the part
where I really had to try to free myself.
TURTURRO: That was fun, really. It was fun.
MOORE: It was fun. We had a good -- we really had a good time.
MOORE: But actually, I was (INAUDIBLE) to have a partner like John every day, to go to work, to look forward to being with an actor, you know, of
his caliber. And he's someone who is also interesting and fun to be with and that -- oh, my God, that makes such a tremendous difference.
And so, to be able to dance with him and really try to communicate physically, you know, that was something new and really, it was exciting,
right, it was fun to do that.
TURTURRO: Well, she's a great person to work with because, you know, she puts her attention on the other -- on her partner and that's just a
wonderful thing because when she do that, you're longer thinking about yourself, you think about the other person --
TURTURRO: -- and the interesting things occur.
AMANPOUR: And it certainly did, I mean, throughout the film. As I say, Gloria's character is much freer, has much more abandon, is much more open
to experiences and kind of knows what she wants. Your character, Arnold -- you know, it's funny because I don't know how you would describe him but --
TURTURRO: I won't describe him. I won't describe him.
MOORE: He's going to be a mystery.
TURTURRO: No, a lot of the ladies on the set informed me that there were lots of men like Arnold.
MOORE: There are a lot of Arnolds out there.
AMANPOUR: Well, let's play a clip that reveals Arnold in all his glorious complexity. So, you're taking him as Gloria to your family and this is
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOORE: How could you be so rude, Arnold?
TURTURRO: For what?
MOORE: I was introducing you to my family, I brought you to my son's birthday party and you had --
TURTURRO: If you were me --
MOORE: -- the nerve to just disappear?
TURTURRO: -- you would have done the same thing. It wasn't an easy situation.
TURTURRO: I searched for your eyes again and again. I didn't exist. We were in love.
MOORE: Oh, please.
TURTURRO: We were in love.
MOORE: He didn't --
TURTURRO: How many times did he have to say that?
MOORE: He was -- he's wrong. He was --
TURTURRO: It made me sick. I threw up. I don't know how you could do something like that to me. And the girls called. So --
MOORE: Grow a pair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Oh, that is a pretty big putdown, grow a pair. So, obviously --
MOORE: Grow a pair.
AMANPOUR: -- that comes after you've taken him to dinner, your ex-husband is there with his new wife and he's busy --
AMANPOUR: -- you know, telling how much you were in love and all this. And you, Arnold, get all bent out of shape and run away, sort of --
AMANPOUR: You get kind of cowardly.
TURTURRO: I first met him (ph). So many events. So, yes.
MOORE: But it's true, he does, you know, and then she feels humiliated because her kids are there and they're like, "Who is this guy, mom," and,
you know, it's -- yes.
AMANPOUR: So, what is the message then? In the end, what is the message of the film?
MOORE: I -- I don't know. You know, I think that Sebastian had a wonderful thing the other day where he says he goes to films and wants to
feel inspired to live, and I think that that's what this movie does.
MOORE: Because it really is a movie about people and their relationships to one another and what they care about, what they love and how they feel.
And so, you watch it and you have all of these big feelings of, you know, kind of grief and then -- and joy, which is what we have. You know what I
mean? That's what life is.
And so you leave thinking, yes, this is what I care about. I care about, you know, what I do. I care about the people that I love and I'm going to
engage in it.
TURTURRO: It goes on.
MOORE: Yes, she goes on.
TURTURRO: Like I said, you know, you fail --
MOORE: That's right.
TURTURRO: You try again.
MOORE: You go on.
TURTURRO: Try again, feel better, you know. And I think that's in the movie.
MOORE: Yes, exactly.
AMANPOUR: It really is amazing because it does connect on so many visceral levels and it's very very accessible. So it's an amazing story.
Look, I euphemistically said a moment ago, you know, women of a certain age. I'm very proud of being of a certain age and having a new chapter.
AMANPOUR: I just wonder as a woman, and I will ask John as well from his perspective, you know, Judy, the more accomplished you get, the more awards
that you get, the more critical acclaim that you get, do you also get more equal pay? Do you get more power over deciding what you can -- what you
want to star in, what you want to --
MOORE: Well --
AMANPOUR: -- have directed, et cetera, projects?
MOORE: Those are separate issues.
AMANPOUR: Yes, I know.
MOORE: I mean they are separate issues because it's like I do have a lot of creative control in terms of the thing, the choices that I make but with
the movie like Gloria Bell, that's a movie that's paid for very little money.
So it's not -- so what you're paid is kind of -- is moot. I mean it really doesn't amount to much at the end of the day.
And in terms of economic power that's equal to men my age, probably not. Then also I don't do a lot of studio movies. So it's very, very
But I think that when we talk about salary parity, this is something that's not endemic. Just Hollywood, we're talking about parity across all
businesses, just in terms of opportunity and pay.
So yes, obviously, it's still in process but I do think that there has been great progress made in the last year.
AMANPOUR: And you support Jennifer Lawrence's campaign on this and the other women who've --
AMANPOUR: -- campaigned on this. John, where do you come on this?
MOORE: Jennifer Lawrence is a big star, yes.
TURTURRO: Well, I think if you're in a movie and you have the same size roles, you should get the same amount of money. And I think it's
interesting for also for men to be in films that the focus is not on the man, it's on the woman.
And I think that's an interesting experience. And I think it's good for young men to see because you need to be introduced to the other world and
they're from a young age.
And I mean I can remember watching so many films, women films with my mom, whether they were Bette Davis or Barbara Stanwyck. And I always found
those films just as interesting as a film with Burt Lancaster or somebody.
AMANPOUR: That's really important. Actually, it's a really interesting observation. And I heard other male actors say that but I think that's
And you, of course, you've -- I mean you have this amazing career of all these characters pas that you've played in so many landmark films. I mean
Spike Lee's films and endless others.
I guess I just want to ask you as well since we're talking about these issues, there was a lot of recognition for black movies this year, whether
it was at the Oscars, the BAFTAs, the Golden Globes.
That was good. It wasn't OscarSoWhite anymore. Spike Lee finally got an Oscar but not for Director or for Best Film. I just wonder what your
thoughts were as you watched that, John, having been directed by him.
TURTURRO: Well, Spike is a dear friend. I've known for over 30 years. So I was very pleased that he was acknowledged because he certainly hasn't
been in the past.
And once again, it's like when you open the doors to something, you have to keep building on it. When the doors opened up for a while, you thought
there was going to be more opportunities in the early '90s and it wasn't.
And he also took a lot of flak. He likes to talk but he took a lot of flak from white critics. I'm just glad to see him have success and be embraced
because you want to be able to continue. That's what we do.
TURTURRO: What we do is we want to be able to go on and not just be acknowledged but [13:35:00] be able to do more things. Because I think
sometimes in our business, people can actually improve.
AMANPOUR: Yes, I hope so.
[13:35:00] TURTURRO: Actually better.
AMANPOUR: Well, why not?
AMANPOUR: Do you think that Blakkklansman should have won Best Picture?
TURTURRO: Do I feel like --
TURTURRO: -- Blackkklansman should have won? Well, I certainly -- I would say I would -- I preferred it to the film that did win. So I'll say --
AMANPOUR: I know it's hard to talk about but --
TURTURRO: I don't know. I think the words are very strange.
Because I mean, Julianna got an Oscar but she also was great in a lot of other movies. And when she was in Far From Heaven, that's something that's
like embedded in my mind, her performance in that film.
So do I think the film she got an Oscar for was better than that? I can't -- it's not sports.
MOORE: Exactly. Exactly. That's right.
TURTURRO: It's not sports. It's opinion.
AMANPOUR: Julianne, interestingly, you were what we might call an army brat. You grew up in Europe. Your father was I believe a military judge.
Your mother was a psychiatric social worker. And you've been in France and Germany and many other countries.
How did that inform your, not just your upbringing, but your aesthetic when it came to film? In France, I mean it's surrounded by the great, great
MOORE: It was interesting because I -- well, first of all, I think as an actor, you learn -- by moving around, you learn that behavior is not
concrete, that it's mutable.
So this idea that you are how you behave which can -- which that I think people feel sometimes that if you live in the same place, this is how we
are. You learn that that's just -- that doesn't matter.
But then I think being exposed to different cultures and film and aesthetics, it was -- it actually first happened in the movie theater where
I lived in Alaska when I was 10-years-old and they got a different movie in every week.
And because we had nothing to do in the wintertime, I saw whatever was there.
I remember seeing a Cassavetes film called Minnie and Moskowitz and I saw A Day In The Life of Ivan Denisovich at 10. I didn't know what was happening
but I just --
TURTURRO: It's a good book.
MOORE: Right. Yes, it was a crazy movie that I didn't understand by I saw it. And then I think with the European film too, yes, suddenly you see
these different world views.
And so you -- the first movie actually that I saw that made me realize that there was a director present and that things could be different was Robert
Altman's 3 Women. And I was like wow, who was that? Who is that person? What are they saying? Why is it different?
And that was the first time I thought that's why I wanted to -- I want to work with somebody who makes movies like that.
AMANPOUR: And then both of you, I'd like you to comment actually on something you said, Julianne. But it's really interesting as a personal
and a professional sort of maxim.
You quoted Flaubert and you do this quite regularly. You say be regular and orderly in your life so that you may be violent and original in your
TURTURRO: I agree with her.
MOORE: Yes, that works for me.
TURTURRO: I wholeheartedly agree with her.
MOORE: Yes. Yes.
TURTURRO: I really do. I think that people who are grounded sometimes can be really, really free in their work because they need to do that. People
who are crazy in their personal life, sometimes they monitor their behavior. So I've seen that a lot.
MOORE: And I also think that --
TURTURRO: She's a good example.
MOORE: I think that your imagination can't hurt you. Feelings can't hurt you.
What we're doing on the set, we are pretending, we are creating an imaginary world. And so if you know who you are and you know what the
boundaries are in your real life, and then in your imaginary life, you're really able to do almost anything.
And when you're with another actor who knows that, I think there's -- that you can accomplish a lot because you know what's there.
TURTURRO: That's right.
MOORE: And that's why I love. I mean honestly, it really does come down to doing a lot of pretending. Right.
TURTURRO: That's right.
AMANPOUR: So just finally then, what keeps each of you grounded? John, what keeps you grounded? Is it your marriage? Is it your family? Is it -
TURTURRO: Certainly, my wife keeps me going and my kids, my friends and just being a citizen and part of the world. And that's what you are and to
keep learning, I think.
AMANPOUR: And Julianne, what's your secret of remaining grounded?
MOORE: I think John and I are very similar. We have similar lives. I've been married for a long time. I have two wonderful children, a great
family life, and great friends, and interests in my community, and activism. And yes, just being a person.
I feel I'm fortunate that I have this regular life I can rely on and this imaginary life that I can tend to. It's -- yes, it's been a great life.
AMANPOUR: It really has got some really amazing original performances out of you both so it's phenomenal. Thank you for everything that you've
[13:40:00] given us. Julianne Moore, John Turturro, thank you.
TURTURRO: Thank you.
MOORE: Thank you for what you give us. My gosh, thank you.
TURTURRO: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And now we continue our interview with the multitalented rock star Lenny Kravitz. Yesterday, he spoke to our Hari Sreenivasan about race
and his childhood. He has a reminder of where they left off.
LENNY KRAVITZ, MUSICIAN AND ACTOR: I grew up going to church. I grew up going to temple. I was not forced to go any certain direction. My
grandmother was a devout Christian.
And I had all of that and I had my own experiences with the teachings of Christ. It was all beautiful. It was all -- it's all still part of me.
And the same thing with color. I mean my mother at a very young age sat me down and said, "Listen, I'm black. This is our history. The Bahamas,
African-American. Your father is a Russian Jew. You're no more one than the other. You have both sides. Be proud of both sides. Embrace both
But she said society is only going to see you as black. That meant that people were not going to see the diversity. They weren't going to accept
all of this beauty within you. Your skin's brown. That's what you are.
AMANPOUR: So now in the second part of their conversation, Kravitz discussed his three decades of touring, charity work, and why he, his
daughter, his ex-wife, and her new husband are one big family.
HARI SREENIVASAN, CONTRIBUTOR: You've done this now -- you've been touring 27, 28 years on the road?
KRAVITZ: Thirty, next.
SREENIVASAN: Third years.
KRAVITZ: Third this -- year coming, yes.
SREENIVASAN: So is the music changing you, are you changing the music, I mean how does -- how do you see that sort of evolution?
KRAVITZ: I do what comes through me. I'm open to everything, I listen to new things -- I'm still listening to the classics and still discovering old
music that I hadn't discovered. But I don't follow the trends, I don't try to make hit records -- I never have. Every hit record that I've had, has
just been something that happened.
For me it's about being myself, and through the years that ride will be up and down, and up and down, and straight and -- you know, I'm fine with
that. Because here I am 30 years later, and the arenas are full and the records are being listened to, and the old fans are there -- the new fans
are there. I'm quite grateful that I get to live my life doing what I love, and that I can still be doing it with the best in front of me.
SREENIVASAN: You're not one to chase trends, quite the contrary -- you're a trendsetter especially when it comes to fashion, a sense of style, I
guess -- where did you get that? How did you, was it watching your parents?
KRAVITZ: I really think a lot through my mother, and through growing up in New York City in those early '70s was really influential being around all
these artists and these musicians, writers that had a flair, you know, style. That's also what got me in to interior design and architecture.
You know, being around all of these people that express themselves through their clothing, through their interiors and their art, yes.
SREENIVASAN: Your daughter recently said that that was actually part of what was tough growing up, knowing that you had such a cool dad and a cool
mom, that they were such fashion plate. I think the quote she said like, "dude, can you just be low-key a little bit? Just a shirt that I can't see
your nipples through would be so dope."
KRAVITZ: Yes we were, I think in Miami at the time -- it was hot.
SREENIVASAN: I don't think that explains the multiple times that you've had see-through shirts.
KRAVITZ: Yeah, no -- I mean, you know, she had to grow up with that. And --
SREENIVASAN: What's it like seeing your daughter now, flourish and become.
KRAVITZ: It's the most beautiful thing ever. I mean, I had no idea which direction she was going to go in to and I -- I thought she would not go in
this direction. You know, when your parents are doing it you kind of, want to go the other way.
KRAVITZ: And then all of a sudden she started acting and auditioning, and getting parts. It was like, "where did this come from?" And now I look at
her, and it's just beautiful to see that she did it on her own. Did people know who she was because of her parents? Yes, but that lasts about five
SREENIVASAN: Ultimately it's your skills that get the --
KRAVITZ: It comes down to your skills, and she kept us out of it. I didn't want to be a part of it, and she has her own direction, and her own
vision. And I watch her, and I learn -- it's really beautiful to see.
SREENIVASAN: One of the things that's interesting, in the last few months what we've also seen is that you're quite friendly with Jason Momoa whose
married to Lisa Bonet, your ex-wife?
KRAVITZ: That's my brother, absolutely.
SREENIVASAN: How do you pull that off, because most people can't do that.
KRAVITZ: It's funny, people -- the reactions. I went to go see him host "Saturday Night Live".
SREENIVASAN: You guys have matching rings.
KRAVITZ: Yeah, he -- well he gave me one, after the show he gave me one of his rings. And -- but it's interesting to see the reactions from people,
like "how do you do it?" And, "it's so amazing," and "what an example of blended families and love and respect."
And for us it's just normal. [13:45:00] And yes, I know it doesn't have to be that way, and I know that so many people don't go in that direction.
KRAVITZ: They can't handle that. But we're family, you know? Lisa and I were once together, and we had Zoe.
And now we're back to like a brother-sister kind of relationship, but we're just as close and we love each other just as much as we did.
It's just a different dynamic, she's now with Jason -- they have their relationship. He respects me, I respect him. We like each other very
much, we love each other.
I now spend time with their kids, and I mean -- we're one family and that's the way it should be -- love is love.
I'm not going to stop loving somebody because we're not having that type of relationship, romantic relationship. When you say let love rule, you have
to let love rule in all the categories, you know?
SREENIVASAN: You have been designing for quite some time. You've designed a farm in Brazil, you've designed homes -- interior designed them.
You've had a one-off Rolex, furniture for CB2. I mean, is this like making music?
KRAVITZ: Absolutely, it's -- for me it's the same thing. I love making furniture, doing interiors, designing products. I've been fortunate to
work with great brands like you just said the watch, I mean Leica Cameras, Steinway piano, creator-director right now for Dom Perignon for two years,
doing hotels, doing condominiums, private homes.
The creative process is the same -- you start with nothing and you make something. And I love it, I was not educated in it formally. I didn't go
to school for it, it's just something that I had within me.
And I've been working on that for years and I built this company Kravitz Design and we're working all around the world doing different things, and
it's a lot of fun. And I get the same joy, the same buzz that I get from making music.
SREENIVASAN: Well why still make music?
KRAVITZ: Because I have no choice. I have to. I hear it still -- I still hear it, it still comes out of me. And when I'm in the studio to this day,
it's the same as when I was in high school.
The feeling I used to get going in to a studio -- the studio was a magical place. You couldn't just walk in to a studio -- a studio was a place you
had to be invited, or you had to have the money to go in.
And when you got in there it was like, going behind the curtain, "Wizard of Oz", you know? It's like, "wow the mixing console, and the equipment, and
the room." It's like a sacred temple, you know?
And I'm still just as excited as I was then. I'm really grateful that I still have that, that I'm not jaded -- that I'm not tired. That I'm still
excited to make art, and to express myself. Otherwise I would not be doing it.
SREENIVASAN: The place you go back to, this tiny island in the Bahamas -- Eleuthera, it's a place that doesn't have a lot. And you are also donating
to a non-profit that's working there to try to build medical clinics, to try to.
SREENIVASAN: Bring dental care -- why, what -- why there?
KRAVITZ: Well, charity begins at home, as my mother always taught me as a child. And I was sitting at home one day and I had some friends that I had
invited from New York, happened to be a dentist and his wife.
And we just started talking, I said, "man, you should see what's going on around here. There's a lack of care, and there's lack of education." And
he said, "that I can't believe," just like that. Because I was describing how so many people had really bad oral health.
So I took him around the neighborhood in my Jeep, and I started stopping people on the road, and said, "hey man, how you doing? Oh good, this is my
friend Dr. So-and-So," and I said, "how's your mouth?"
And the guy looked at me like, "what does that mean?" I said, "no, how's your mouth? What's going on in your mouth? Do you have a pain?"
And we started -- he started examining people on the hood of my Jeep, on this one road -- he had his goggles and his thing, and all this stuff to
look in there. [13:50:00] He had his mask and he couldn't believe what he found.
I said, "You see, it's a big problem." People with their mouths just rotted out - infections, and I mean people with no teeth.
And so, we just said, "You know what? Let's help these folks, and purchase all of the mobile equipment - high-tech equipment." He got his doctors to
come down; he had like 35 doctors, and we set up a clinic in the middle of town, and worked for four or five days and helped 400-some-odd people the
And we've now being doing this - this is our fourth year coming up now, and it's the Let Love Rule Foundation and the GLO Good Foundation that's headed
by Dr. Levine, my partner. And it's beautiful; we're about to have it again in a couple of weeks.
The endgame is to have a freestanding medical - full medical clinic with all of the equipment that will be free to the island.
SREENIVASAN: And in order to help that, you're also behind a toothpaste? I mean this is not a Lenny Kravitz toothpaste, but -
KRAVITZ: Well, that's - that's - that's the newest component. So myself and the two sons of Dr. Levine, Julian and Cody, have started a toothpaste
called Twice, which comes with two toothpastes - one for morning, one for night - two different flavors, two different dynamics - encouraging people
to brush twice a day, because 100 million folks don't brush twice a day - a fact.
And part of the proceeds go back to this mission so that we can continue doing this - service the people in the island, and also take it to other
places in the world in the future.
So it's a beautiful thing; and I get to do this in my backyard, at home. And it's an honor to be able to provide this.
SREENIVASAN: You have gotten to play with everyone from Al Green to Jay-Z; you've performed at the Super Bowl. Rattle off a few moments that come to
mind about music and your participation in it.
KRAVITZ: I mean I've had the opportunity to work with my heroes and the people that influence me and educated me - from Prince to David Bowie, to
Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones, to Robert Plant, to B.B. King, to --
SREENIVASAN: That's incredible luck.
KRAVITZ: - Labelle - I mean - you know, Madonna, and - you know. I can't think of anybody just right at this second, but --
KRAVITZ: -- you know.
SREENIVASAN: What do you remember? I mean give me like - it might not be a moment that we witnessed, half a billion people watched at the Super
Bowl, but what's - what's something that --
KRAVITZ: The quiet moments when you're at home --
KRAVITZ: Like having Stevie Wonder in your living room, playing your piano, and just singing with you and having fun, you know - when nobody's
watching; the same thing when Mick Jagger is sitting at my piano, playing the blues, and those kind of moments when - when nobody's looking and
you're just having fun.
Sitting with Lionel Ritchie in the kitchen, writing a song, and my grandfather, who's alive at the time, telling us, "Hey, could you guys take
that somewhere else? I'm trying to watch the television." Those are the moments, yes.
SREENIVASAN: Are you going to go on tour now, for this album?
KRAVITZ: Yes, I've been - I've been on tour for this album. We've already done Mexico, Europe and a small tour of America; and I'm getting ready to
do South America - from Chile, all the way to up to Brazil and Argentina and Columbia and so forth.
And then I'm going to do a full tour of Europe again, and then a full tour of the United States again, and that will go into the end of the summer --
SREENIVASAN: Are you already working --
KRAVITZ: -- of 2019.
SREENIVASAN: Are you working on more music already?
KRAVITZ: Yes, I'm two albums ahead of myself - yes.
SREENIVASAN: Wow. Is that how it usually works?
KRAVITZ: No, I usually do one at a time, and then I take a break. But I'm committed for the next five years to keep working without break; I feel
it's a time for me to just continue on this journey with no break.
SREENIVASAN: That's intense.
KRAVITZ: Yes, it's beautiful.
SREENIVASAN: Lenny Kravitz, thanks so much.
KRAVITZ: It's a pleasure to speak with you. Take care, man.
AMANPOUR: And we look forward to seeing Kravitz's next work take shape.
That's it for our show. Tune in tomorrow when we'll be looking back at my conversation with King's College Professor Peter Neumann and the former al
Qaeda Operative Aimen Dean about how to de-radicalize ISIS fighters who now want to return home.
Thanks for watching this special edition of Amanpour. And remember, you can always listen to our podcast and see us online at amanpour.com. And
you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter.
Join us again tomorrow.