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Trump Backing Down on Census Citizenship Question?; Interview With Seattle, Washington, Mayor Jenny Durkan; Tropical Storm Targets Louisiana. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 11, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We roll on, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Breaking news. CNN has just confirmed that President Trump is expected to take this executive action this afternoon that will directly get the citizenship data added to the census through other means, so not through the Department of Justice.

CNN's chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, is live for us at the White House.

And so if they don't go through the DOJ, Jim, how does he plan to do this?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, what we understand right now, is that the president has essentially decided to issue an executive action.

Later on this afternoon, he will be talking about this at this press conference here at the White House. The weather is going to determine whether or not it's in the Rose Garden or in the East Room of the White House. There are some storms expected this afternoon.

But the president is expected, Brooke, to order the Commerce Department, instruct the Commerce Department to come up with a methodology to get this citizenship data through other means, not put it on the upcoming 2020 census.

That appears to be an idea that has been tabled for now, although I should point out, Brooke, one top official here at the White House was cautioning that we need to wait to see exactly what the president says later on this afternoon.

And that has always been a caution flag that they have thrown up over in the press shop here at the White House ever since Donald Trump has come into office as president. But, obviously, this has been a big fixation of his over the last several weeks.

He has wanted the citizenship question on the census. The Supreme Court obviously blocked that, and essentially gave him a pretty significant legal defeat in that regard.

And ever since then, the president has been pressing his aides to come up with some other way to sort of shoehorn that question into the census, even though the Commerce Department has begun printing those forms. But it now appears at this point, Brooke, that the president has at least given up on that in the short term, as of right now.

That is how things stand right now. We should point out, things can always change over here at the White House when President Trump is in charge. But what we're hearing from officials, multiple sources telling us, is that, at this point, he is now moving in the direction of asking the Commerce Department to acquire this information, the citizenship information, through other means.

That's obviously going to be welcomed by Democrats up on Capitol Hill. Just earlier today, the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, was warning that this was going to be a huge Supreme Court challenge, a big challenge for the chief justice on the Supreme Court, John Roberts.

And Elijah Cummings, the House Oversight Committee chairman, was telling our Manu Raju this afternoon that this was going to be a major, major, major problem for the president, were he to head in this direction and try to override the decision made by the Supreme Court here.

And so it appears for now a constitutional showdown is not happening anytime soon, as the president appears to be at this point tabling this idea of putting that question in the census -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, just so I'm hearing you correctly, like, he fully would realize that it would have been essentially a brick wall, legally speaking, by going through DOJ, and so, aha, here's this other avenue with the Commerce Department?

ACOSTA: This sounds like an escape hatch, Brooke, because what his aides have been telling him all week is that, yes, you can try to do an executive order, forcing the citizenship question into the census. You can order the Commerce Department to start printing forms with that question the forms, but it is immediately going to go to the courts, it's going to get tied up in the courts.

And the betting here in Washington was that the Supreme Court was not going to take kindly to the idea of the president thumbing his nose at another branch of government and saying he's going to do this anyway, after the Supreme Court said, no, Mr. President, you can't do that, not at this point, not with the rationale that you brought before the high court.

And so it seems, at this point, they have looked for an off-ramp. They found this off-ramp. And the president will be talking about this more this afternoon. It does sound at this point he is backing away from this idea of the question, and is now preferring to take this option that his aides have been recommending, which is try to acquire this information through other means -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very much. We will get some analysis with the legal analysts on this in just a moment.

But first more breaking news, this major scare in the air. A flight headed from Vancouver, Canada, to Sydney, Australia, had to divert in Hawaii because of major turbulence that injured dozens of passengers.

Stephanie Elam, I'm coming straight to you with the details.

That is some serious turbulence if you have got 35 people injured and some people hitting their heads. What happened?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Brooke.

What we're learning here is that 35 people may have been injured when this turbulence, according to some of the passengers, snuck up out of nowhere. And since the plane was dark, it was just four hours into the flight, a lot of people were sleeping when this happened.

The airline saying that it was -- quote -- "unforecasted and sudden turbulence."

But take a listen to what some of the passengers are telling our affiliates there in Hawaii.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON THORNTON, PASSENGER: We were all sort of dozy, and the cabin was pretty dark. And it just seemed that the plane just sank and then flew up.

A lady in front of us, I don't think she had her seat belt on. She hit the ceiling.

[15:05:03]

LAURIE TYLER, PASSENGER: It went bang. And the people just shot up, and then down again, and then it was over.

MICHAEL BAILEY, PASSENGER: A lot of people hit the ceiling, and a lot of screaming. The seat in front of me, the girl hit the plastic overhead, and actually snapped it and broke it. And the oxygen masks came down, and you had a lot of panic. But we were out of it sort of straight away. A lot of people were injured, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Whew.

ELAM: Now, according to our affiliate KLNL, KGNB, they're saying that nine passengers may have gone to the hospital for this. They said that there are two pregnant women on the flight, one who was not wearing her seat belt, and the other who had paid from her seat belt after the turbulence hit as well.

They're also saying that some of the flight attendants may have been hurt, one in particular when one of those rolling carts -- and you know how heavy those are -- one of them may have fallen over on that flight attendant, some of the concerns there.

But it does seem that a lot of the injuries that were sustained, Brooke, were to people who were not wearing their seat belts. Now, to their -- the credit of the airline, here's what they have had to say.

It's saying that it does look like they had some minor injuries. And it said their "first priority is always the safety of our flights passengers and crew. As a precaution, medical personnel are on standby to examine passengers in Honolulu."

We understand that the passengers have gone through customs and through international arrivals, are now at Air Canada's desk figuring out what they're going to do, whether they're going to stay the night or whether they will continue on to Sydney, many of them not planning on having this little interlude in Honolulu today.

BALDWIN: Can I just say I would not have handled that turbulence very well, Stephanie Elam? I'm just going to be real with you.

ELAM: Especially if you're asleep, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Stephanie, thank you very much for the update on those 35 people.

Meantime, we move on to this.

Let's talk about Tropical Storm Barry barreling towards New Orleans, all kinds of floodwater. It is a mess for a number of people down there, of course, with the history of Hurricane Katrina a number of years ago, the threats of levees being breached.

Where shall we -- Natasha Chen is live for us with a look at how bad the conditions are -- Natasha.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we are talking about a confluence of factors here, especially because this Mississippi River is already much higher than it typically is this time of year.

Let me show you what neighbors are pointing out to me. You see where that buoy is and these trees right here, as well as the utility lines? You're usually supposed to be able to walk out that far. So you can tell exactly how much higher this river is compared to normal.

And we're being told this is already at about 16 feet. And so add to that a tropical storm and you have some major flooding problems. The governor said that they typically get flooding problems in the (INAUDIBLE) Louisiana, that is, but storm surge, rain and high river levels, and they have got all three going for them this weekend.

So, people need to take (INAUDIBLE) seriously. There are also floodgates being closed along the river. That is one of them right there. We saw the flood protection authority a couple hours ago driving along here, shutting that one down. So, again, with floodgates being closed, with people being told to

shelter in place, with sandbags going around downtown, people are preparing for the worst to come, which is supposed to be Saturday -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. I can also feel the wind there, pretty, pretty heavy where you are in New Orleans. Natasha, thank you very much.

Let me bring in storm chaser and "National Geographic" photographer Mike Theiss. Mike is home right now in Key Largo, but unlike many people who'd want to get out of town, you like to head towards these kinds of things. Are you heading that way?

MIKE THEISS, HURRICANE CHASER: Yes, I am.

I'm currently getting the HRV ready, the hurricane research vehicle. I'm going to be heading up there in a few hours. It's going to be a long drive, but I'm going to get into position and see what Barry has to offer.

I think it's definitely going to be mainly a flooding event. It's going to be a lot of rain, a lot of overflowing rivers. Normally, when we go into hurricanes, we're there to research the high winds and the low barometric pressure, which I don't think Barry's going to have.

But, still, I want to be there in place just in case it intensifies. Don't forget about Hurricane Harvey, Hurricane Michael and some of these other hurricanes that intensified right at the last minute just before landfall.

BALDWIN: So you don't think wind? I mean, you're saying that it'll be -- you're guessing it'll be mostly a flood event.

But what about the wind?

THEISS: Yes.

Well, the wind -- right now, there's not much convection in the center. It's still disorganized, but it's very warm waters, and it has the potential to organize into a hurricane.

Currently, what I'm watching, it's struggling. But, like I said, right near the coastline, anything can happen. But I am anticipating at this point from what I'm seeing a very high water event. A lot of flooding is going to be the huge story here.

[15:10:03]

But, again, anything's possible. We don't want to let our guards down, just in case it does intensify to a Category 1 hurricane.

BALDWIN: Mike Theiss, travel safely. Thank you very much.

I want to get back to our breaking news here regarding President Trump appearing to back down on the census citizenship question. He will ask his administration to get the information to put that question in another way.

Also, migrant families are living in fear right now, amid reports that the Trump administration will be launching these raids in 10 major cities across the United States. Where and how they could go down.

And a growing rift. Congresswoman Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez tries to explain what she meant when she said Speaker Pelosi was -- quote -- "singling out women of color" in their party.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:40]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Now to the immigration crackdown that many fear will break up hundreds of families throughout the country. ICE will begin raids this Sunday targeting some 2,000 people who already have a court order to be removed.

These are the same raids that were planned for late last month. But then the president put them on hold. They are now back on. And "The New York Times" is reporting that not just people with removal orders are at risk of arrest, detailing what is called collateral deportations.

Let me explain -- quote -- "Authorities might detain immigrants who happened to be on the scene, even though they were not targets of the raids."

Democrats are speaking out. They're condemning this crackdown. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi even gave out legal tips, while Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer implored the president not to isolate children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): An ICE deportation warrant is not the same as a search warrant. If that is the only document ICE brings to a home raid, agents do not have the legal right to enter a home.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I just wanted to say one thing about the upcoming -- the president's proposed raids on Sunday.

We say to President Trump, stop separating children from their families. Tell your agencies, do not separate a single little child from their parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Ed Lavandera is along the border there live in El Paso, Texas.

And so, Ed, I know you have been talking to families who are certainly fearful and anxious about what's about to happen. What are they sharing with you? And how are they preparing?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, families across the country that have undocumented members in their families living in their homes, this is a fear and an angst that they live with, the threat of deportation, they live with every day.

And when you talk to a lot of these families, as we have over the last few months, they will tell you that they essentially have contingency plans in place, documents. They explain to their kids and they set aside paperwork with phone numbers that children or other family members might need if all of a sudden there's a family member who doesn't come home from work or doesn't -- isn't there at the end of the school day or whatever the case might be.

So all of those contingency plans are being shared and kind of reinforced in immigrant communities all across the country, not just here on the border, in fact, something people even urging family members that, if they do have an undocumented member who is facing -- whose legal options have all been expired, to be very wary of even being in the same house.

As you mentioned there off the top, Brooke, is...

BALDWIN: Collateral.

LAVANDERA: ... if ICE agent show up to deport someone, they can -- they can pick up other family members who might be undocumented as well.

So this is a notice and a fear that is really sending shockwaves and ripples throughout immigrant communities around the country.

BALDWIN: We mentioned these 10 cities. Can you tell us who specifically these agents will be targeting?

LAVANDERA: Well, our understanding is, immigration officials are telling us that, as you mentioned, some 2,000 people, far from the millions that President Trump had been talking about over the last month of deporting, targeted in 10 major cities across the country.

According to our information, these are people who have recently arrived. Immigration officials say that these are people who haven't also shown up for immigration court hearings, that their legal options have all gone through the process, and that these are migrant families that have been -- have recently arrived, and that they are trying to expedite their removal from the country.

But despite that, there are still many people who have been here years and years, or maybe not as long, who still kind of fear exactly what is going to unfold over the coming days.

BALDWIN: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.

And I know you and your team have been working so hard on this cross- country investigation. Let me just let everyone else know about this. It's this

investigation to really uncover the realities of undocumented workers in the U.S. It's a special CNN report. We're calling it "The Hidden Workforce: Undocumented in America." It airs tomorrow night at 10:00 Eastern.

Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

Now, advocacy groups are providing tip sheets to those facing deportations, advising them, don't open your doors, keep quiet, don't sign anything, and record whatever you can.

[15:20:10]

And one woman is actually taking no chances with ICE. Edith Espinal has been living inside an Ohio church in order to avoid authorities after receiving her own deportation orders.

And ICE has a policy of not entering places of worship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDITH ESPINAL, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I want to keep fighting, fighting more, because they see me as -- this administration try to attack people like me, people like me to fighting for our case, to fighting for -- to stay with our families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So let's talk more about what these families are going through.

With me now, Jenny Durkan. She is the mayor of Seattle.

So, Ms. Mayor, thank you so much for joining me.

JENNY DURKAN (D), MAYOR OF SEATTLE, WASHINGTON: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: So, Seattle not on the list of the 10 cities, right, initially planned for these raids.

But it's my understanding, of course, that the fear is pervasive. Can you tell me what you're hearing?

DURKAN: You know, I'm actually in San Francisco.

I met with Mayor Breed today, because the West Coast cities have a whole range of issues and challenges, many of them worse, because the federal government has walked away from its responsibilities.

The president's actions on this front on immigration do not make communities more safe. They instill fear. And they also are very cruel. I'm a former federal prosecutor. And if you're really focused on public safety, it doesn't look like this.

BALDWIN: What preparations are folks in your city taking ahead of this?

DURKAN: So we have done a range of things working with our communities and impacted communities for a long period of time, to make sure that they have education, and they know what their resources are.

We also have created a defense fund, so that people who are apprehended -- but when you talk in terms of raids and roundups, you're not talking about public safety. You're purposely trying to instill fear. And one of the things we're trying to do in our community is make sure that people understand not just their rights, but to reduce that amount of fear. We don't want to focus our energies on separating families.

I was at El Paso a year ago and saw the horrible results of when you separate children and put them in tents in very hot conditions. It's only got worse. We need to really focus our efforts on those people that are a public safety risk, but not continually instill fear in communities throughout America.

BALDWIN: Well, this is what the Homeland Security Department is saying. This is the quote from "The New York Times," that the Trump administration's goal is to use the operation as a show of force to deter families from approaching the southwestern border.

That's their stance. They want to stop folks from crossing over the border. They're hoping this sends a message to the families waiting in limbo.

What's your response to that?

DURKAN: It is flawed on every level. First, if you really want to stop people from making a very dangerous journey with their children to America, stop having policies that displace those people from their home countries, support them economically, make sure those democracies can flourish, make sure there isn't risks to those people in their homes.

Mothers don't pick up their small children and journey thousands of miles unless they think they need it for their hope, for their family. And so that's the history of America, to protecting people who are seeking refuge.

If we want to stem the tide, as they say, then what we need to do is have different policies abroad. And when they are here, if you're really focused on the public security of America, you focus your resources on violent criminals, on drug dealers, on the opiate crisis, on meth, which is flowing into every urban city.

You don't focus on families. You don't separate children from their parents. And you certainly do not put children in the cruel and inhumane conditions that we're doing today, where we have literally cages overflowing with children taking care of other children.

America is better than that. It does not keep us safe. We don't need a show of force against children to make America better. BALDWIN: Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan, thank you.

DURKAN: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Our breaking news this hour, the president appearing to back down on the census citizenship question, but he will try to seek the information another way. We will tell you how.

And his campaign has struggled to win over black voters, but South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg is trying to turn that around -- his plan to -- quote, unquote -- "help heal our racial divides" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:20]

BALDWIN: So let's get back to our breaking news.

President Trump appears to be backing down on the 2020 census citizenship question. He is expected to sign an executive order in just a couple of hours that will seek to get citizenship information about individuals in one way or another.

Two people with knowledge of the plan tell CNN that the president will instead direct the Commerce Department to obtain citizenship data through other means.

CNN Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic is with me now.

And so, Joan, talk us through this. I mean, was he essentially realizing that going through DOJ would be a dead-end; therefore, go through Commerce, and that could give him an opening to adding the question?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is an unusual turn of events.

But think, Brooke, of all we have been through in recent months, especially the last two

[15:30:00]