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Trump Attacks Ilhan Omar, Crowd Chants "Send Her Back!"; Schumer Asks FBI & FTC To Investigate FaceApp; Trump's Racist Tactics Aren't About Right Versus Left, But Right Versus Wrong. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 17, 2019 - 21:00   ET


[21:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I'm 95 percent sure it's deep on The Ridiculist.

News continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

The President stood satisfied as a rallying cry of "Send her back!" echoed through a North Carolina stadium tonight. I hope you hear it. And make no mistake, this President wants to divide. That is his plan to win.

We have two House Members here from different Democratic wings. What do they think they're up against? And do they have a winning strategy? Let's test it.

And, it better not be that people won't buy this President's talk. You hear what happened last night when I asked a Trumper and U.S. Senate Candidate if he would support this President even if Trump admitted he was a racist. You know what I got? The silence heard round the world.



CUOMO: Would you still support him--

KOBACH: Really.

CUOMO: --as President?

KOBACH: I don't know.

CUOMO: You have to think about it?

KOBACH: That would be a really tough question.

CUOMO: You have to think about whether or not--

KOBACH: If he said - if he said - if he said - if he says it--

CUOMO: --you would support a racist?


CUOMO: And then he said, depends who he was running against. Look, America, it is time to decide what we are about. What do you say? Let's get after it.




CUOMO: The President is all in on "Us versus Them," and the crowd in North Carolina loves it.


DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, Representative Omar blamed the United States--


TRUMP: --for the terrorist attacks on our country.

Omar has a history of launching vicious anti-Semitic screeds.



CUOMO: Odd that the President wasn't saying, "Wait, no, I didn't mean that. I meant, you know, to your home district. That's what I meant." "Send her back!" they were chanting. His message is clear. That's the echo he desires.

Let's bring in Congressman Cedric Richmond, Democrat from Louisiana.




CUOMO: Co-Chair of the Biden campaign. Good to have you back, Sir. Thank you for taking the opportunity.

I want to talk healthcare. But the reason this President says, "Yes, I got a plan for healthcare. I'll give it to you after the election, Cedric," is because he ain't going to campaign on healthcare.

He's going to campaign that there's something wrong with the way you look, and people like you are a little bit of a danger, and we're a little bit better off when you guys stay where you were before you were here. That's his campaign. He is confident. How do you counter?

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): Well Chris, I think there's a - there's a book called Stranger in Their Own Land, which adequately portrays what Trump does.

And that is he will convince people to vote against their own self- interest by convincing them that the reason why they don't like their status in life is that minorities are skipping the line to take benefits that they should have, and that government is picking winners and losers, and the government are picking Black people and Brown people and women over them, simply because of their minority status.

And I think you have to call it - call him on it. We can't sit here and pretend that people don't fall for it. I see people in Louisiana, I see people in Mississippi and Georgia vote against their self- interest all the time, because of their emotions, and the fact that the Republican leadership has chose to campaign by division, and blaming others if you're not happy where you are.

CUOMO: Because it can work.

RICHMOND: For example--

CUOMO: It can work though, Cedric. And here's the trick. We all know the aphorism that darkness can't drive out darkness, only light can do that, but there's a trick to it. You have to craft a message that is equally compelling in the context of your time.

The fear and disaffection is real. This President didn't create it. I'm not saying that the majority of our country is racist. But there is huge populations that are scared, and he's playing to that. He's a demagogue.

How do you counter? Because right now, I know it's kind of early, but you guys are like fighting about whether or not Biden's a racist, and whether or not this policy program for healthcare is extreme enough or this one, that does not sound like the stuff of victory to me.

RICHMOND: Well that's why you see, our campaign, we're fighting for the soul of the country, and I think you hear the Vice President say that all the time. Now, the difference between the Democrats, some of the differences are real.

But you heard Vice President Biden say at his announcement that his number-one plan for climate change was to beat Donald Trump. Our number-one plan to improve this country is to beat Donald Trump. And--

CUOMO: But it's how, Cedric. See, that's the trick.


CUOMO: That's why I wanted to play for you what you're up against because you guys in your party have to figure out how to come together, and what that will mean. And I know it usually happens, but I don't know that it happens this time.

RICHMOND: Well you do it two ways - you do it two ways, Chris. One is you call him on the BS.


RICHMOND: And you do it very directly. And then you talk about what he's - the heart of what he's trying to get at is everybody's economic status in the country. We have to show people that you don't have to blow out somebody else's candles, so yours can shine brighter.

[21:05:00] So that means everybody can prosper economically if you show people that plan, and I think the Vice President has a good plan for that, we can't put - pit rural against urban, Black against White, immigrant against citizen--

CUOMO: But that is happening in your party a little bit.


CUOMO: You have this division.


CUOMO: And I just want to show you what you're up against, OK?


CUOMO: Imagine, because right now, if - you know, who knows how the primary goes? The VP is up, the former VP is up, but there are real divisions in your party. The people who are behind him are nothing like him. Look at what the President has in his stable of supporters.


CUOMO: What would you do if the President said, "I am a racist. That's why I said it," what would you do?

KOBACH: Then I would - then I would not defend him because there's--

CUOMO: Really?

KOBACH: --no excuse for racism in America. Period!

CUOMO: Would--

KOBACH: Really.

CUOMO: --would you still support him as President?

KOBACH: I don't know.

CUOMO: You have to think about it?

KOBACH: That would be a really tough question.

CUOMO: You have to think about whether or not you would support a racist?

KOBACH: If he said - if he said - if he said - if he says it--

CUOMO: Really?

KOBACH: I'd have to know who is running against him.

CUOMO: A racist?

You're running for Senate.

KOBACH: All right, but it's - he's not a--

CUOMO: And you got to take a pause whether or not--

KOBACH: He's--

CUOMO: --if he said he was a racist, you'd still support him. Come on, brother.

KOBACH: No, no, no, no.


CUOMO: Now, that is a level of buy-in that is not easy to come across, and you certainly don't have it in your party, right now. How do you combat that kind of devotion in a sitting President? How do you hope to beat that?

RICHMOND: Well I don't think those people are going to change, Chris. And my grandmother used to tell me, "Never argue with a fool because from a distance you can't tell which is which."

And so, I think we have to go and let people know that we're really fighting for the soul of the country. And I believe that there are more people in this country that want to see the country united and prosper than those that want to see the hate and division.

But you can't assume it's going to happen. You have to go and articulate it. You have to go fight for it. And I believe you have to call this President on his BS, which Vice President Biden has done from his announcement video--

CUOMO: You can call him on it.

RICHMOND: --to every day.

CUOMO: You just have to be better than it. And then you have the policy piece also.


CUOMO: Let me ask you one question about that.


CUOMO: The VP is out on the hustings, and he says, "You go with a plan like Bernie Sanders," you know, I'm paraphrasing, "Medicare is gone. All the Medicare you have is gone." That's not true. Why is he saying that?

RICHMOND: Well I think what he's really saying is that if you look at Bernie Sanders' plan, which is a real plan but what it would do is it would eliminate private insurance.

CUOMO: It would.

RICHMOND: And it would--

CUOMO: It wouldn't eliminate Medicare though, would actually increase coverage.

RICHMOND: Well but it raises taxes on everybody in the country--

CUOMO: It does. That's about cost.

RICHMOND: --in order to pay for it.

CUOMO: Not coverage.

RICHMOND: So, our plan - and, by the way, that plan doesn't come to fruition for four years after you pass it. And what happens in that four years, nobody talks about that.

And I think the Vice President's plan is a real plan to get to a universal coverage, 97 percent, almost from day one.

For those people who like their private insurance, they get to keep it. It was - it makes sure that Medicare, Medicaid is sound, and then offers a public option, by the way, which would be premium-free for all those people trapped in states where governors won't expand Medicaid.

CUOMO: Right.

RICHMOND: So, look, I think it's a very real plan. I think it's a good plan. And I think the American people will see it for what it is, and understand that you can't get economic dignity, if you can't get affordable healthcare.

CUOMO: A 100 percent. And the issue is certainly going to be cost and cost containment.

I'm just checking you in real time because if you want to be better than who's there now, one of the things is you got to play straight because we're not dealing with somebody who respects the facts all that often, so I'm glad to have you on the show to test the same.

Congressman Cedric Richmond, thank you very much.

RICHMOND: Thanks for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, now listen, just like you, I love my country, but you got to be honest. She has weaknesses when it comes to racism. Are there enough harboring those types of fears that can give purchase to that kind of message to allow this President back into the White House?

The Wizard of Odds can give us a better sense of the stakes, next.








CUOMO: So, this President says a lot of people agree with his calls to "Go back" where you came from to the minority lawmakers. Now, he may be right. But, how many? More importantly, are there enough that support it to overcome all those who should condemn it?

Let's ask Harry Enten, The Wizard of Odds. What do you see in the numbers?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Yes, so, you know, I think what we have to recognize about this is that the President is very unpopular. And what he is going to try and do is recreate the 2016 playbook.

And if you remember that year, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were very unpopular. Where Donald Trump won was among those who had an unfavorable view of both of them. That was 18 percent of the electorate. And among those 18 percent, he won 47 percent to Clinton's 30 percent, was able to win them by 17 points.

And what he's essentially trying to do this time is connect, say, Omar, Tlaib, Ocasio-Cortez to the Democratic candidate, bring them down because he knows he can't win if this is a referendum on him, so--

CUOMO: Why did he win both unfavorable?

ENTEN: Because simply put, he was the lesser of two evils. He was - they - these were voters who didn't like either one, but they just didn't like Hillary Clinton a little bit more.

CUOMO: All right, so he won 2016, not because of how many, because he lost the popular vote by a lot, but it was about where.


CUOMO: So, what do you see geographically?

ENTEN: So, I think this is so important, right? It was that Midwestern wall, right, where Trump really broke through. And if we look at nationwide, his net approval rating, that's approval

rating minus disapproval rating, right now is minus 9 percentage points, according to the 2018 exit polls.

But look at the states of Iowa and Wisconsin. These are two states that Trump needs to win. And look, he's not popular there, but he's a - much more popular than he is nationally, right? A minus 4 percent net approval.

CUOMO: He's less unpopular.

ENTEN: He's less unpopular. That's a beautiful way of putting it. You have a way with words. Minus 4 percentage points in Iowa, minus 4 percentage points in Wisconsin, so he is actually closer to the center there.

He is closer to break-even than he is nationally. And so, he's just trying to say, "OK, I'm a little closer there. I make the Democratic candidate a little more - bit more unpopular, and that's my secret to success."

CUOMO: Give me more.


CUOMO: More regional information.

ENTEN: So, I think that this is - so my buddy Nate Cohn over at The Times, we have these nerdom meetings, and he basically cracked these numbers, and it was so interesting to me.

And he essentially said, "OK, who are the voters who turned out in 2018 and who are the registered voters who didn't turn out in 2018?"

[21:15:00] And what we essentially see is that among those who voted in 2018, White non-college graduates made up only 48 percent of the electorate in the key northern swing states, that's Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, so on, so forth.

They only made up 48 percent of Whites without a college degree. Whites without a college degree among registered voters who didn't vote, they were 68 percent of that.

CUOMO: So, there's a lot of money left on the table.

ENTEN: That's exactly right. And we know that racial resentment plays best with Whites without a college degree. That's a Brian Schaffner study that was done after the 2016 midterm election - 2016 Presidential election.

So, he's trying to drive up that percentage of the electorate, trying to get those people who didn't turn out in 2018 to vote in 20 - 2020.

CUOMO: Any insight into what would work with these people as a positive opposite to just going at them with their fears and hate?

ENTEN: So, what I would say, Christopher, what could work with them pretty well is a number of things.

Number one, you need a candidate who can connect with them. Hillary Clinton, simply put, didn't. They thought that she was someone who wasn't necessarily in their camp. They thought that she was someone from the cities, the urban areas, someone who looked down upon them, she isn't (ph) a candidate who can connect with them.

Another point that I'd bring up, healthcare. That's something that we saw used overwhelmingly in the 2018 midterm elections.

We saw that a lot of Democratic candidates ran on healthcare, and they were able to connect with these voters, who were very worried that their healthcare was going to be taken away from them, and that's what we saw in the Midwest. We saw the Democrats doing well in--

CUOMO: It's a metaphor issue because, literally, it's fundamental security.

ENTEN: That's exactly right.

CUOMO: And it's whether or not you will fight for me. It plays on that level better than just about any other issue other than pocketbook issues, and there's a relativism on pocketbook that is not there with healthcare. Everybody has their biggest vig after their mortgage is their healthcare.

ENTEN: Democrats are trusted on healthcare pretty much more than any other major issue. And that's where I would suggest that Democrats put their money right now.

I want to point out one other thing, Chris. And that is, you know, racial resentment can work in the Midwest. But one place where it may not work is in the Sunbelt swing states, right? This is Arizona, this is Florida, Georgia, so on, so forth.

And what do we see here? Well if you look at the voters who turned out in 2018, we see that non-Whites only made up 36 percent of the electorate in these Sunbelt states. But the registered voters who didn't vote in 2018, 46 percent of them were non-White.

So, even if he's able to drive up that White working class vote in Midwest, there could in fact be a ricochet effect in these Sunbelt States, with these non-White voters, Hispanics, and African-Americans may turn out in larger numbers to vote against him.

CUOMO: I love the help in focusing where we should look. Wiz, thank you very much. Harry Enten--

ENTEN: Shalom, brother.

CUOMO: --ladies and gentlemen.

All right, the President again tonight vilified Members of Congress whom he says hate America. His crowd chanted in affirmation, "Send her back. They should go back." What is the Democrat counter? Ripe for a Great Debate with these two,









CUOMO: What is clear is that the President has shown his hand. What is unclear is whether or not it will be a winning hand. Now, the rally in North Carolina certainly thought so. They said "Send her back!" in a big unified chant as this President sat - satisfied.

The question is, is this what Republicans should be running on in 2020? And we'll have a Republican and a Democrat. And do the Democrats have a good counter?




CUOMO: That's the start of tonight's Great Debate, Jennifer Granholm, Kayleigh McEnany. Good to have you both. Kayleigh, I know we have a little bit of a satellite delay where you are, so thank you for playing along.

I don't know if you heard. But last night, we had the silence heard round the world. I want to play what Kris Kobach who was the Head of the President's Election Fraud Commission, almost the Immigrations Czar, wants to be the U.S. Senator from Kansas, here's what he said last night on this show.


CUOMO: What would you do if the President said, "I am a racist. That's why I said it," what would you do?

KOBACH: Then I would - then I would not defend him because there's--

CUOMO: Really?

KOBACH: --no excuse for racism in America. Period!

CUOMO: Would--

KOBACH: Really.

CUOMO: --would you still support him as President?

KOBACH: I don't know.

CUOMO: You have to think about it?

KOBACH: That would be a really tough question.

CUOMO: You have to think about whether or not you would support a racist?

KOBACH: If he said - if he said - if he said - if he says it--

CUOMO: Really?


CUOMO: I've decided to call this The Kobach test, instead of the litmus test.

Kayleigh, if the President said, the reason I'm saying these things is because I'm a racist. I know he hasn't said that. I know he doesn't believe that. Hypothetically, if he said that, would it change your support for him?



MCENANY: I understand the Democrats and the Left have been trying to paint the President as a racist since June of 2015 when he first came down the escalator.

CUOMO: Why isn't your answer--

MCENANY: But he's not a racist.

CUOMO: --no?

MCENANY: It's a ridiculous assertion. Because it's ridiculous.

CUOMO: Why isn't your answer, "No--

MCENANY: I'm not going to play these games where--

CUOMO: I don't support racism."

MCENANY: Because I won't - I - I won't - I won't allow you attach - to attach a label to the President, even hypothetically that is patently false and untrue. This is a man who's praised by--

CUOMO: How is it patently false when what he just said--

MCENANY: --Jesse Jackson for the work he did for--

CUOMO: --was patently racist?

MCENANY: --minority communities.

CUOMO: What work he did for minority communities? The First Step Program--


CUOMO: --that his son-in-law jammed down his throat?

MCENANY: Nothing--

CUOMO: That's what you're talking about? Come on.

MCENANY: Long - long - that's a part of it.

CUOMO: The guy did the Central Park Five. He did birtherism.

MCENANY: But long before--

CUOMO: And he just told four Brown lawmakers to go back where you come from. And you're going to say it's an unfair label, Kayleigh? The facts are not your friend.

MCENANY: Of course, I'm going to say that. Oh, the facts are absolutely my friend. We can go long back to when he opened Mar-a-Lago to Black Americans. It was the first club in Palm Beach that was allowed to have--

CUOMO: Open Black - to Black Americans?

MCENANY: --Black Americans, Jewish Americans--

CUOMO: The only thing he's been opening his doors to there is illegal--


CUOMO: --workers. That's what he's been opening his doors to.

MCENANY: Jewish - Jewish Americans - Jewish Americans were allowed in to Mar-a-Lago because of President Trump. President Trump has consistently been praised by Jesse Jackson for--

CUOMO: What?

MCENANY: --being a friend to the Black community.

CUOMO: Listen.

MCENANY: So, it's ridiculous. Yes, he has. And it only changed, by the way--

CUOMO: Yes. MCENANY: --when you at CNN and others started calling him a racist. That is false. It is untrue.

CUOMO: So not when he said that President Obama wasn't born in this country.

MCENANY: President Trump's history defeats that.

CUOMO: That had nothing to do with it? Not when he said--


CUOMO: --good people on both sides? That had nothing to do with it.

MCENANY: Of course not.

CUOMO: Not when he told Brown lawmakers to go back where they come from. That had nothing to do with it, right?

MCENANY: Again--

CUOMO: All right, listen, those are the facts.

MCENANY: --taking him out of context.

CUOMO: Let's bring in - let's bring in Jennifer--

MCENANY: One by one by one.

CUOMO: Out of context!

Here's your problem, Jennifer. The facts are clear. Kayleigh's good at arguing them. I like having her on this show. She's a benefit to the campaign. Your problem is that calling out the facts isn't going to be enough. That's The Kobach Test.

[21:25:00] The Kobach Test is even if this President said he was a racist, he might still support him, if the alternative was you. So, how do you counter that and win?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D) FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well I think, first of all, the strategy of trying to paint the Democrats as these four women, which clearly he's trying to do, recall all--

CUOMO: Effective.

GRANHOLM: --Democrats socialists or any of that nonsense--

CUOMO: Effective.

GRANHOLM: --right, well, I don't know. It's effective with his base. But he can't win with just his base, if his base is defined by those who came out in 2018. You just had Harry on, the - what did you - what did you--

CUOMO: The Wizard of Odds.

GRANHOLM: The Wizard of Odds, yes. And the fact is he's got to expand from where he was in 2018, if he's going to win. He's got to hold everything he had in 2016. It's not going to work.

If - if this is the strategy, if racism is his strategy, if calling out people's fears is his strategy, that's not going to work among suburban women, among people of color, among those who came out in 2018, White people who are uncomfortable--

CUOMO: But 2020 will have more people.

GRANHOLM: --with a President who causes people to divide. And--

CUOMO: As Harry called out though, Jennifer, you had 68 percent of White non-college voters didn't come out in--


CUOMO: --2018. And these are people who have real fear, real economic insecurity.

GRANHOLM: Absolutely.

CUOMO: They have real disaffection. They feel abandoned by parties in general, and they appreciate this President as a disruptor of the norm.


CUOMO: How do you get them?

GRANHOLM: Some of them do. Some of them are uncomfortable with being brushed as associating with a President who is clearly dividing America. What is - what is this country? It is un-American to call out these women, and say, "Send them back!" It is - what is this country--

MCENANY: That's - that's absurd. You know what's un--

GRANHOLM: --if it is not it - oh, oh, oh.

MCENANY: --you know what's un-American?


MCENANY: Jennifer?

GRANHOLM: It's un-American because they are--

MCENANY: I realize there is a delay in here but you know what's un- American--

GRANHOLM: --American. They are Americans.

MCENANY: --is Ilhan--

GRANHOLM: Kayleigh!

MCENANY: What is un--

GRANHOLM: It's un-American to say--

MCENANY: What is un-American is Ilhan--

GRANHOLM: --"Send them back!" Oh, come on. What is this country?

MCENANY: What is un-American is Ilhan--

GRANHOLM: Your ancestors came from another place.

CUOMO: All right, let her answer, Jennifer.

MCENANY: I know.

CUOMO: Let her answer.

GRANHOLM: American exceptionalism is people coming from other places to make this country special.

CUOMO: All right.

MCENANY: Will you--

GRANHOLM: That is the birth of this country.

CUOMO: Let her answer.

MCENANY: Jennifer?

CUOMO: Kayleigh, go ahead. What's your response?

MCENANY: Jennifer, since I had to be asked this absurd hypothetical at the start of this, will you condemn Ilhan Omar for not condemning al- Qaeda?

GRANHOLM: She has not praised al-Qaeda.

MCENANY: No. Apparently not.

GRANHOLM: No. Kayleigh, Kayleigh.

MCENANY: She won't condemn al-Qaeda.


GRANHOLM: I don't have to agree with--

CUOMO: At least she answered your question.

MCENANY: She did not condemn al-Qaeda.

CUOMO: You wouldn't even answer my question, Kayleigh. You have no high ground. GRANHOLM: --question.

CUOMO: Continue.

GRANHOLM: Wait, who are you asking?

MCENANY: She will not condemn al-Qaeda.

CUOMO: No, I'm - I'm saying continue, debaters.

MCENANY: She won't condemn al-Qaeda.

GRANHOLM: I don't--

MCENANY: But yet, she criticizes the country.

GRANHOLM: I - I - I have no idea what she has said or not said about al-Qaeda. But I do know she is an American citizen. And she search - she has a representative district - and she is sent to Washington to serve her district. That woman is an American. And you can't--

MCENANY: And she says we--

GRANHOLM: --say "Send her home." You are - do you believe that you should--

MCENANY: --she says we are responsible for 9/11.

GRANHOLM: All right, wait, wait, wait.

MCENANY: She says America's responsible--

GRANHOLM: Do you think Kayleigh - Kayleigh--

MCENANY: --for 9/11 and that terrorism, we're responsible for that.

GRANHOLM: --do you think she should be sent home?

MCENANY: And she won't condemn al-Qaeda.

GRANHOLM: Do you think she should be sent back to Somalia?

MCENANY: That is un-American.

GRANHOLM: Do you think--

MCENANY: I think - here's what I think.

GRANHOLM: --she should be sent back to Somalia?

MCENANY: Here's what I think.

GRANHOLM: Answer my question.

MCENANY: Jennifer - oh, I'll answer it, all right? If you hate this country so much, by all means-- GRANHOLM: She doesn't hate it. She served this country.

MCENANY: --exit and make - let me finish. By all means, hate - by all means, leave it, and allow an - an immigrant, who's dying to be here--

GRANHOLM: She does not hate this country.

MCENANY: --and take advantage of the American Dream.

GRANHOLM: Why do you say she hates this country?

MCENANY: Make room for someone who loves this country and wants to be here.

GRANHOLM: She loves this country. All of those women--

MCENANY: Why do I say she hates this country? Because--

GRANHOLM: --love this country. They are serving this country.

MCENANY: --it's very simple.

GRANHOLM: They were elected to serve America.

MCENANY: It's very simple.

GRANHOLM: They are American citizens.

MCENANY: You - you - we are responsible for 9/11?

GRANHOLM: How dare you? How dare you--

MCENANY: That's hate for this country.

GRANHOLM: --tell an American citizen they must go--

MCENANY: We are responsible for terrorism? That's hate for this country.

GRANHOLM: --away? I - I am just - it is--

MCENANY: I said make room for someone who wants to be here.

GRANHOLM: --this to me is such an un-American argument--

MCENANY: Make room for someone who wants to be here.

GRANHOLM: --to say that you cannot criticize your nation. What is the First Amendment about? You - you - this is what--

MCENANY: You know what's un-American is--

GRANHOLM: --makes us exceptional.

MCENANY: --your fellow Democrats not condemning al-Qaeda along with Ilhan Omar. GRANHOLM: They are condemning al-Qaeda.

MCENANY: She won't condemn al-Qaeda. And I asked you.

GRANHOLM: That is so ridiculous.

MCENANY: And you won't condemn her.

GRANHOLM: Honestly, Chris, this is such--

MCENANY: Nope. It's cricket. She was asked about it.

GRANHOLM: --an utterly ridiculous argument.

CUOMO: Hey listen.

MCENANY: She didn't condemn them.

CUOMO: I got a news flash for both of you. This is what this election is going to be about. When the President said, "Yes, we got a plan for healthcare, but I'm going to give it to you after the election," he was telling you the truth.

The reason - he's not going to fight you on healthcare, he'll fight you with what happened, and the ACA stinks, he's going to make it better, this is the battleground of this election. What is this country about, what does it accept, and what does it reject?

I'm testing both of you on that level because that is the--

MCENANY: And 9 percent approve of Ilhan Omar.

CUOMO: --road before us.



CUOMO: Well, look, I mean in a unpopularity contest, this President's going to have his hands full. It will be a battle of attrition. I don't know that that's good for the country.

GRANHOLM: But she is not running for President.

CUOMO: But we will see what happens going forward.

GRANHOLM: She is not running for President

CUOMO: But just to be very clear, I asked you that question because it should have been easy for you, Kayleigh. It should have been an easy no. If he admitted he was a racist--

[21:30:00] MCENANY: The President's not a racist.

CUOMO: --I would never support him. I didn't--

MCENANY: That's an easy answer.

CUOMO: --tell you he was. I said if he said it.

GRANHOLM: Yes, he is.

CUOMO: And the fact that you can't handle the question--

MCENANY: The President is not--

CUOMO: --that's on you, not on me.

MCENANY: The President is not a racist.

CUOMO: I didn't say he was.

MCENANY: Because I - I won't allow you to attach--

CUOMO: I said if he said he was it should have been a layup.

MCENANY: --a label to the President that doesn't exist.

CUOMO: If you ask me, would I be friends with Kayleigh, would I have her on the show if she was an admitted racist--

MCENANY: You're--

CUOMO: --the answer is no. Jennifer, Kayleigh, I got to go.

MCENANY: He's not a racist.

CUOMO: I didn't say he was.

MCENANY: I'm not playing these games of the media.

CUOMO: I'm saying that you've got to own the reality. And the fact that you run away from it speaks volumes. But you're welcome to make the case--

MCENANY: And the reality is is he's not.

CUOMO: --because the audience deserves it. I got to jump.

GRANHOLM: All right.


CUOMO: My next guest says the President's attacks are deeply personal for her. Who is she? The Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. She's a naturalized citizen from India. So, if she says something he doesn't like, does she have to go back too?

We're going to bring in Congresswoman Jayapal. She heard that debate. She knows that it's the real narrative in this country. What is the winning counter, next.







CUOMO: Look, I'm not saying I like it. But this show is not about shading or certainly hiding reality from you. Times have changed.

You remember back in 2008, when that woman at the John McCain Presidential Campaign took a shot at Barack Obama's ethnicity, and questioned his citizenship, and McCain's response. Here.




QUINNELL: I - I have read about him. And he's not - he's not - he's a - he's an Arab. He is not--

MCCAIN: No, Ma'am. No, Ma'am.


MCCAIN: No, Ma'am. No, Ma'am. No, Ma'am. He's a - he's a - he's a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with.


CUOMO: Now, this President may say that he doesn't like John McCain. But he has never equaled him in that moment.

That woman is a Trumper. He is stoking those feelings right now, and he's doing it to advantage, and he is right to say there are a lot of people who will agree with what he's doing. The question is how do you counter and win.

Let's bring in Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. Welcome back to PRIME TIME.




CUOMO: I want to talk to you about what your party is doing with healthcare. I think it's a metaphor issue that could transcend. You guys got to get straight on it though, and we'll talk about that in a second.

This is your bigger challenge. The reason this President says, "I'll tell you my healthcare plan after the 2020 election," is because he plans on spending this part saying, "People like you, Pramila, are a threat. You are this new that is not necessarily better. And a Great Again means going back to when people like you are not around as much."

I mean that's got to be the message.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): That is definitely his message. And I will tell you that it is absolutely outrageous, and it is deeply personal.

I mean I was born in India. I've been a naturalized citizen. I am a naturalized citizen. I've been in this country since I was 16 years old. This is my country, and I am so proud of it.

And what I said on the floor yesterday, Chris, is that, you know, we're talking about patriotism, and people are saying, "Well you either love it or you leave it."

To me, patriotism and love of country means that you actually critique it to make it as good as you can be, you put yourself into service, you work to make it even better than it is today, and you do that with tremendous love, but also with truth.

And this President has nothing but lies, and it is hurtful.

I mean, look, I'm fine. But I will tell you, I got a lot of calls yesterday from people across this country, who are naturalized citizens, who were absolutely outraged, felt dislocated from this country, felt like what has happened here, "This is my country. I'm proud of it. And I'm being told to go home not by the guy on the street who's driving by in a car," which believe me, for us, Black and Brown folks, that's been happening for a long time, but this time, from the White House, from a guy who deliberately put out racist tweets.

So look, we got to call it out. We have to. We have to call it out. We cannot become inured to what he is doing.

CUOMO: True.

JAYAPAL: And then, we got to talk about the policy issues because we have passed multiple pieces of incredible legislation here in the House of Representatives to bring back wages, to put wages into the pockets of people. That's what we're - we're going to do tomorrow with a $15 minimum wage.

We have passed gender pay equity. We've passed the DREAM Act. We have shown the kind of legislation we can pass when we take back the Senate, when we keep the House--

CUOMO: Right.

JAYAPAL: --when we take back the White House.

CUOMO: But Pramila the - Congresswoman, excuse me. The - the politics, the heart of it is persuasion. And policy is there, but it's a second and third note. Remember how my pop used to say, "You campaign in poetry, you govern in prose."

I'm not saying policy doesn't matter. Certainly on this show, we talk about it all the time. But this is powerful stuff this President is playing with, and he knows it is, that's why--


CUOMO: --he's using it. And he's getting--

JAYAPAL: That's why he's doing it.

CUOMO: --unusual buy-in from people who should know better. Listen to this--


CUOMO: --Congressman, listen to Congressman Kelly and the case he made in the President's defense.


REP. MIKE KELLY (R-PA): I'm just watching all this anymore. I - I think we're going way beyond the pale right now. You know, they talk about people of color. I'm a person of color. What - what choice is it? Look, what's - tell me anybody--


KELLY: I'm White. I'm a - I'm a White. I'm an Anglo-Saxon. But I'm not - people say things all the time, but I don't get offended.


CUOMO: Now, look, there's an absurdity and a sophistry to that, yes, yes, but it is compelling to 70-plus percent of this country. There is a slice of that White America that feels disaffected, boxed out--

JAYAPAL: But you know what?

CUOMO: --that multiculturalism is their enemy. And whether it's true or not, this President is playing to those fears. You'll never get to healthcare if you don't persuade--

JAYAPAL: It's - it--

CUOMO: --on that point first.

JAYAPAL: --it's true. But I'll tell you something, Chris. I actually don't think he's playing to 70 percent of the country. I think he's playing to the same 30 percent that is always going to be with him no matter what he says.

CUOMO: Agreed.

JAYAPAL: And - and--

CUOMO: I'm not saying 70 percent of the country believes that. I'm saying that's the field he's playing on. He's picking--

JAYAPAL: Well sure. But I actually--

CUOMO: --from the biggest part of the country.

JAYAPAL: But my point is I think he is actually going to do damage to the other part of that 70 percent--

CUOMO: Good.

JAYAPAL: --that does not agree with him because I will tell you, I've had a lot of my White friends, you know, say, "Listen, we remember our ancestors. We - we remember the generation before us, the generation before that. Some of us came over here as well."

[21:40:00] I mean people do - the thing the President has always gotten wrong is that immigration is a funny issue. It's not a - a Black-and-White issue, and no pun intended there, but it is a - it is an interesting issue.

Almost everybody that has run, particularly in these - in these, you know, state elections, but even if you look at 2018, all of the President's racism, I think, backfired on him. Donald Trump may not have been on the ballot in 2018, his name, but he certainly was on the ballot. And what was--


JAYAPAL: --on the ballot was not - I mean sure it was about healthcare, absolutely. But it was also about the kind of person that occupies the White House, and needing to have a check to that.

So, I really do believe that the majority of Americans, White, Black, and Brown believe that immigration is good for this country, and that telling people to go back to where they belong--

CUOMO: Right.

JAYAPAL: --to their own country is racist. It doesn't matter what the Republicans say.

And maybe one of the things I'm most disappointed about with my colleagues is, I had colleagues on the floor yesterday tell me that they told their children that they should never say a thing like that, and that it was racist. And these are friends of mine.


JAYAPAL: I said to them directly, "Are you going to speak out against the President?" And they said, first they said yes, but they did not do it.

CUOMO: No way.

JAYAPAL: I looked.

CUOMO: Yes, they're not going to do it.

JAYAPAL: And they did not do it.

CUOMO: They're--

JAYAPAL: And they didn't vote for it.

CUOMO: They're not going to do it.

JAYAPAL: And that is what--

CUOMO: It's - it's working too well for him and their party, and they're afraid to getting primaried and thrown out. Congresswoman, listen, you got to forgive me tonight.


CUOMO: I talk policy all the time here. I will have you back. We'll talk more about healthcare. But I--

JAYAPAL: Oh, you did it to me again. You know, I got a great case to make on Medicare-for-All, and I've got to make it on your show. And now you're going to have to give me 10 minutes of time--

CUOMO: Done.

JAYAPAL: --next time--

CUOMO: Done.

JAYAPAL: --on the Medicare-for-All, please.

CUOMO: You will be the lead guest, and we will talk about Medicare- for-All, and the nuances within your own party, because I think--

JAYAPAL: All right, but soon, Chris. We got to do it soon.

CUOMO: --I think it's the - done.

JAYAPAL: Because there's a lot of misinformation out there.

CUOMO: Done.

JAYAPAL: And the - the questions that are being asked by these folks at the debates are not the right questions. Nobody should be asking, "Are you going to eliminate private insurance?" because that's not even what our plan does.

Cedric, who's a good friend of mine was on your show just now.

CUOMO: Right.

JAYAPAL: And - and he said that there's a four-year transition. And--

CUOMO: They're going to get rid of private insurance.


CUOMO: And that the four years, you don't know what's going to happen.

JAYAPAL: And actually, my plan does not have four years. It has two years. So, let's know what we're talking about.

CUOMO: Done.

JAYAPAL: Let's talk about the facts and let's get it done.

CUOMO: Done. I cover it on the show. You're an important piece on that issue. And I want to have you here. But I couldn't ignore this. This is a--

JAYAPAL: I know.

CUOMO: --definitional premise.


CUOMO: This is what this election is going to be about. But yes, I will have you back. It is on me, and I'm sorry, all right?

JAYAPAL: All right, all right.

CUOMO: Congresswoman, thank you.

JAYAPAL: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Look, you got to make choices. I care about healthcare. We study it here like you wouldn't believe. But this is a big deal.

All right, Ron Burgundy, speaking of big deals, that escalated quickly. You remember that line in the movie? The hottest social media app right now may be turning into one of the scariest.

Let's bring in D. Lemon. Have you heard of FaceApp? You see all the stuff on social media? You know the truth behind it? You will in a second.








CUOMO: FaceApp, FaceApp, it's all over the place. Now - right now it is. Now, it's been around for two years, but it's seeing this viral resurgence. Celebrities are all showcasing how they might look when older. You've seen this. It's really spreading fast.

But this new attention is turning into new alarm. Privacy experts are raising concerns about the app's Terms of Service, you know, the stuff you never read. Why? You know what they allow? The company to use your photos as it sees fit.

So, when you go in there to take the photo, and it says, "Can we access your camera?" say no.

Senator Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer from New York is now calling for the FBI and FTC to investigate FaceApp. The DNC today warned the 2020 campaigns against using it because it was made by Russian developers.

D. Lemon, you and I have been seeing these pictures. I wanted to play with it tonight, but we can't play with it because it may be dangerous.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: I did not do it. People have been sending in pictures of me, and I'm like, "Oh, that's great, that's great, that's great."

You know all this - I used to run out by the newest iPad, the newest iPhone, every time somebody got like a new app, I would do it. Now, I'm just like, "No." I'm so glad I waited on this one.

But do they - are they using that app on your face right now?


LEMON: Oh! Boom!

CUOMO: That is - look he'll - don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. I'll tell you what though. It just shows, if this is true, by the way--


CUOMO: --let me just inject a little bit of skepticism. Just because it's a Russian company, it doesn't have to mean that is - it is an appendage--

LEMON: Taking no chances.

CUOMO: --to Russian - Russian Intelligence.

LEMON: I'm taking no chances.

CUOMO: But Schumer believes it's worth looking at. The DNC, obviously, they're going to be a little paranoid about this stuff. But if there is something there, man, this is some sneaky stuff, this Russian interference, and we are so behind the ball on it.

LEMON: Listen, I'm half joking when I said "Taking no chances." I don't think you should take a chance with any of this. And you saw how much money, I think--

CUOMO: Access your photos? No way.

LEMON: No way.

CUOMO: I don't want any app to have access to your photos.

LEMON: Well it was what--

CUOMO: It's crazy.

LEMON: Was it Facebook that just paid out $5 billion? Paid up $5 billion for - yes, I can't, this week, I can't do it. I can't - I can't do it. And I think that everyone should be careful about it.

To tell you the truth, well most social media now, I don't really go on. It is so toxic. I go on just a couple of things, and I don't use all those apps, so there you go. That's just me. You do--

CUOMO: What do you got - what--

LEMON: --what you want.

CUOMO: No, I'm not doing it.


CUOMO: What do you got coming up tonight?

LEMON: I'm going to take pictures of my breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and that's all I'm going to put on Facebook and Twitter and--

CUOMO: What is on the show tonight?

LEMON: Serious stuff, honestly, serious stuff. Someone who has been there and can tell us what a dangerous place we're in with all of this rhetoric, especially against the four Congresswomen, Mr. Dan Rather, the great Dan Rather--


LEMON: --joins us in just moments here on CNN to tell us where he thinks all this is going.

CUOMO: Strong choice. I'll be back at the top of the hour. I'll see you in a second.

LEMON: See you. CUOMO: All right, now, I was surprised last night, to be honest. I did not expect a Senate Candidate to be speechless, and have to think about it, when I asked him if he would support a known and admitted racist.

I know it's hypothetical. So what? That should make it that much easier to answer. Kayleigh struggled again tonight. Why? Because they know it hits too close to home.

[21:50:00] But here's something else that needs to hit home. The argument tonight is about what is really going on here, what the stakes are, and what the challenge is for both sides, next.








CUOMO: Now you know what this election is going to be about if this President has anything to say about it. Forget the spin from the Righties seeking cover. Here is what Trump said.

[21:55:00] "So interesting to see "Progressive" Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful nation on earth how our government is to be run. Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."

His message was not going back to their district or hometown. He said country, and he explained his implication.

He knew only one of the lawmakers was a naturalized citizen from somewhere else, but he lumped them together on purpose, because he is a demagogue, and he is selling noisy Brown women making trouble and trying to change what this place is about, "Go back."

And his base heard the "Us versus Them" play, as he intended it, and too many on the Right accept it, no matter how low he goes, and here is the proof.




CUOMO: You hear the rallying cry. Send her back! Notice the President who says he didn't mean that didn't correct them, so forget about this dispute over what he meant.

The proof here now is the silence that will tell you everything. A Trump loyalist who wants to be a U.S. Senator, who ran a Federal Commission for this President, and was almost his Immigration Czar, Kris Kobach, this is The Kobach Test. Watch.


CUOMO: What would you do if the President said, "I am a racist. That's why I said it," what would you do?

KOBACH: Then I would - then I would not defend him because there's--

CUOMO: Really?

KOBACH: --no excuse for racism in America. Period!

CUOMO: Would--

KOBACH: Really.

CUOMO: --would you still support him as President?

KOBACH: I don't know.

CUOMO: You have to think about it?

KOBACH: That would be a really tough question.

CUOMO: You have to think about whether or not you would support a racist?

KOBACH: If he said - if he said - if he said - if he says it--

CUOMO: Really?

KOBACH: I'd have to know who is running against him.

CUOMO: A racist?

KOBACH: Come on, now.


CUOMO: Maddening? Of course. But get the message. Kobach isn't unique. He's an echo this President is counting on. That's why he said today that he thinks he wins if he says racist things. Stoke fear of others, and get no blowback, and probably buy-in from the party.

Representative Mike Kelly, Republican Congressman, what did he say? "I'm a person of color. I'm White. I'm an Anglo-Saxon. But I'm not - people say things all the time. I don't get offended." You don't get offended because you are an empowered White man, and you know that you are in a position of privilege. This is the willful ignorance that Trump is counting on, the complicity that he is counting on, and he told you exactly that today.


TRUMP: If people want to leave our country they can. If they don't want to love our country, if they don't want to fight for our country, they can. I'll never change on that.

I do think I'm winning the political fight. I think I'm winning it by a lot.

I'm not relishing the fight. I'm enjoying it because I - I have to get the word out to the American people.


CUOMO: First, he was asked to fight for this country and declined. Second, relish and enjoy mean the same thing. Third, the Right often tells you racism isn't a real problem in this country.

But Trump is right. A lot of people agree with him that these types of people should go. Why? Because racism is a problem. We have struggled mightily to make this experiment in democracy and diversity work.

Unity is fragile. Hate comes too easy to too many. And fomenting that hate should be the farthest thing from a real President's mind. But not this one.

Now, while his policies reflect mostly traditional GOP moves, cut taxes for the wealthy, go easy on business, his politics are the ugly stylings of a demagogue, and we're seeing it all over Europe. We just hoped it wouldn't infect us here. But it has.

He says he has to get the word out. Be clear what his word is.

Trump says he wants to Make America Great Again. But what he means is Make America Hate Again. Any Republican that hides from this reality or sells it as something else is complicit. This is not Right versus Left. It is right versus wrong.

Do the Democrats get that? Their struggles with half measures on oversight, playing at policy extremes, those things don't give a clear signal that they do.

Be clear, all of you, my brothers and sisters, this is a battle for the soul of the country, and I offer this without hype or hyperbole or cynicism. I believe America has never succeeded when she was split. Our biggest developments were also products of our diversity.

But we now have a President who thinks the way forward is to go back. Make America Great Again is inherently regressive. That's a fact of his own messaging. But here's the deal. This President only decides what he offers. You decide what to accept. Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts right now.

LEMON: Do you think, I don't know--