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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Interview With Mohammad Javad Zarif; Rep. Al Green Impeachment Bill Up For Vote Today; European Union Launching Anti-Trust Probe Into Amazon; Mexico Balks At New U.S. Migrant Plan; U.S. Sports Star Helps Out At Border; British Prime Minister: I'm Worried About The State Of Politics; Zimbabwe Drought Leaves Millions Without Clean Water; "Flyboard" Inventor Eyes New Feat After Dramatic Debut
Aired July 17, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:22] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAN: Anybody who starts with Iran, will not be the one who ends it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The Iranian foreign minister's strong words. That CNN interview and full analysis, straight ahead.
Then, President Trump digs in and tweets on. Now, we've just heard from the top House Democrat as her party calls for a vote on impeachment.
Plus, would you insert a microchip into your brain? We'll tell you about Elon Musk's dream of a future where humans merged with artificial
intelligence. That will be interesting.
A rescue operation or an act of war? Iran and the U.S. have very different takes on exactly what happened to an oil tanker missing in the Persian
Gulf. Tehran says the Panamanian flagged tanker sent out a distress call and Iran answered. The U.S. thinks Iran may have seized the ship as a way
of destabilizing shipping lanes in the gulf.
A short time ago, CNN sat down with Iran's foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, to get his reaction to the escalating tensions in the gulf. Listen.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Foreign Minister, what can you tell us about this Panamanian flagged tanker that appears to have been
escorted to a port in Iran by the Iranian navy?
ZARIF: Well, I haven't had any briefing about that. What I've heard in the news, is that it required assistance. And it's being assisted. But I
haven't seen any private briefing about that.
ZAKARIA: You know, a lot of people think that the Iranian government is trying to raise tensions in the Persian Gulf by interdicting tankers, by,
in a sense, signaling that it could, in various ways, block the flow of oil from the Straits of Hormuz.
ZARIF: Well, you see, we are in the Persian Gulf. We have 1,500 miles of coastline with the Persian Gulf. I mean, we control the Strait of Hormuz.
It is -- I mean, these waters are our lifeline. So their security is of paramount importance for Iran.
But throughout history, Iran has provided security in these waters. The United States is intervening in order to make these waters insecure for
Iran. You cannot make these waters insecure for one country and secure for others.
ZAKARIA: Do you believe that as a result of this, whoever is to blame, you could have an escalation which would result in a military incident?
ZARIF: Well, in such a small body of water, if you have so many foreign vessels, you -- I mean, accidents will happen. You remember 1988, when a
U.S. warship in these waters shot down an Iranian civil airliner, killing 290 passengers. So accidents, even catastrophes, can happen under these
ZAKARIA: Do you think that with tensions being as high as they are, there is a possibility of war?
ZARIF: Well, you cannot simply disregard a possibility of a disaster. But we all need to work in order to avoid one. There is a war going on right
now. It's an economic war. An economic war against Iran targets civilian population. And President Trump is on the record saying that he is not
engaged in military war, but in an economic war.
Economic war is nothing to be proud of because in a military confrontation, civilians may become collateral damage. Whereas in an economic war,
civilians are the primary targets.
GORANI: Let's talk about the foreign minister's comments with CNN Pentagon Correspondent, Barbara Starr and our Global Affairs Analyst, David Rohde.
David, is Iran ready to talk? They've been sending some signals in various interviews that some things are off the table, implying that other things
might be on the table. Is there a window here, do you think?
DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think the only window is if there is some reduction in the economic sanctions. They're under pressure
domestically to somehow ease the crippling impact of these sanctions, so I don't see them entering talks without getting some sort of sanctions
GORANI: And, Barbara, we also heard the foreign minister say some things, the statement was quite bellicose. Let's listen again to what he said
about what would happen in that part of the world if the U.S. decided to start a war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:05:14] ZARIF: I can tell you that we will never start a war. We've never started a war, we will never start a war. But we will defend
ourselves. And anybody who starts a war with Iran will not be the one who ends it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: How is this being interpreted at the Pentagon?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, I think the first thing to say is on that mystery tanker, if you will. The Pentagon has come
to no conclusions about what may have happened to it. They're continuing to look at the intelligence.
On the question of not starting a war with Iran, this may be the one area where publicly at least, the president and the foreign minister are in
agreement. As Mr. Zarif said, the president is on the record that he's not looking for war with Iran, and the Pentagon has said the same thing.
That said, they both -- you know, the U.S. and Iran both say they have the right of self-defense. So while everybody's trying to stay very calm about
this and the U.S. is putting force into the region for deterrence against aggression, I think the bottom line is there's still plenty of concern
about that very fact. Both sides could miscalculate, there could be a disaster but nobody wants that to happen of course.
GORANI: Of course. And from Iran's perspective, David, of course, it's the U.S. that walked away from this deal. The Europeans believed it was
working. They're still trying to salvage it. Can it survive?
ROHDE: It does not look good at this point. And what's new and interesting is that the Iranians are really pushing Europe. They're
furious at Britain for seizing this Iranian tanker, you know, recently.
And I think, you know, they may have seized this tanker -- the one that's missing that they said they are, you know assisting, but that might be sort
of retaliatory for Britain's seizure of the tanker.
TEXT: Iran and Its Proxies Lashing Out in the Past Month: Iran shoots down U.S. drone; Iran-backed Houthis fire missile at airport in Saudi
Arabia; Iran's military believed to be behind attacks on two tankers in the Gulf of Oman; Iran breaches limits on uranium enrichment
ROHDE: And so you could have, you know, the next British prime minister, whether it's Jeremy Hunt or Boris Johnson, facing this, these growing
tensions. And I see the Iranians pushing Europe. They've been demanding more economic aid to help ease the sanctions. And that hasn't happened.
So Iran will keep pushing --
GORANI: Well, they have few -- but they have few, David, as you know, options, the Europeans. I mean, they're trying this kind of parallel
payment system. But I mean, big European companies won't do business with Iran if they fear U.S. sanctions, right?
ROHDE: That's true. And then, you know, Boris Johnson's come out and said he would not back a U.S. war against Iran. He'd have to stand by those
words if there was some sort of conflict that erupted.
GORANI: So, Barbara, where are we going here when it comes to the U.S. and Iran? Is there a real chance of -- I know both sides are saying they don't
want war. But both sides are escalating.
STARR: Well, are they? You know, that's, I think, a real question to be looked at. The U.S. is continuing to put some deterrence force in there,
claiming the right of self-defense, of course, for American interests in the region. They are trying to get a maritime coalition together so other
countries who have oil shipments going through that area will take some responsibility for escorting their own ships. But very much, trying to
stay in that defensive deterrent posture.
Iran, I think, this latest tanker mystery will tell us a lot when it gets resolved. Were they really trying to help a tanker that was broken down at
sea? Or was there something else going on here? Are they still really trying to engage in provocation?
GORANI: Well, we'll learn soon enough. We know their transponder or their signaling systems on board were disabled. Thanks very much, David Rohde,
Barbara Starr, for joining us on this.
And you can catch Fareed Zakaria's full interview with Iran's foreign minister, Javad Zarif, this Sunday on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," 3:00 p.m.
London time and 10:00 p.m. in Hong Kong.
For the first time in more than 100 years, the U.S. House of Representatives has rebuked a sitting president. But the controversy over
Donald Trump's racist tweets is not over yet because a Democratic lawmaker is now pushing for a vote on a proposal to impeach President Trump. It's
not a given, of course, that such a vote will ever happen.
Our Manu Raju questioned House speaker and top Democrat Nancy Pelosi a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We have six committees that are working on following the facts in terms of any abuse of power,
obstruction of justice and the rest that the president may have engaged in. That is the serious path that we are on, not that Mr. Green is not serious.
But we'll deal with that on the floor.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Will you vote to table it? Will you vote to table it?
PELOSI: I don't know what we will do. But we will deal with it on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get the very latest now. Manu Raju is with us. He's live on Capitol Hill. And we're also joined by White House reporter Stephen
And, Manu, there really doesn't seem to be appetite, as far as Nancy Pelosi is concerned, appetite for pursuing this impeachment path even if more
junior members of the Democratic Party on Capitol Hill are in favor of it.
[14:10:06] RAJU: Absolutely. And in fact, this resolution, put forward by Congressman Al Green, is putting Democrats in a bit of a difficult spot,
including Democrats who support opening up formal impeachment proceedings, because of the way that Al Green is doing this, the way that he has
structured this resolution is an articles of impeachment saying that the president should be removed from office because of racism.
This has nothing to do with the Mueller report, the findings of potential obstruction of justice, nothing like that, as what a number of lawmakers
want to begin impeachment proceedings over. Instead, it has exclusively to do with this notion that the president, according to Al Green, is a, quote,
"bigot." That is not how Democrats want to pursue this.
But because of the way that this is structured in the U.S. House, he can essentially force a vote on the House floor, making Democrats take that --
take a position about whether to impeach the president. And what you heard from Pelosi, she does not want to go this route.
The ultimate question is, how many Democrats vote against this. Republicans are expected to also vote against it later tonight. So that
could disappoint some Democrat supporters who want their party to take a much firmer stand against this president. But at the moment, the tactics,
there's been a tactical debate within the Democratic Party --
GORANI: Well, but --
RAJU: -- for months, going to play out on the floor in just a matter of hours, here, Hala.
GORANI: -- why is Nancy Pelosi and other top Democratic leaders in the House opposed to pursuing impeachment proceedings at this point? Why?
RAJU: She believes that it essentially would be a fruitless endeavor that would consume the House and then it would not succeed in the United States
Senate, which is run by Republicans.
The way that it works in the U.S. is that you have to impeach the president in the U.S. House run by Democrats, and the Senate, now run by Republicans,
two-thirds majority would have to remove him from office.
And she (ph) believes (ph) that will just simply not succeed and there's no point in going that route. Instead, she believes investigate. And she
says, then litigate, and then do oversight over this -- over what the demands for information from this White House.
So that's the strategy she's pursuing, which is why she's tamping down calls for impeachment even though, as you noted, Hala, a number of
Democrats are increasing their calls for at least beginning the formal process of an impeachment inquiry. We'll see if the speaker ultimately
changes her mind.
GORANI: And, Stephen Collinson, the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll shows that support among Republicans for the U.S. president, Donald Trump, has
actually gone up since those racist tweets, by five percentage points, to 72 percent. Could you explain why?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the president has a stronghold on the Republican Party, you know? He's dominated the party.
The party is now no longer the party of Lincoln, as it used to be. It's the party of Trump. And that's the reason.
This is one piece of evidence that suggests that this clash, which you might think would be a disaster for any other president, to be accused of
being a racist is actually a political victory in the very narrow terms that Donald Trump sets for this. He has no, you know, worried about his
reputation. He pursues politics at the lowest possible point, down in the gutter. He drags people down with him.
And there are a lot of Republicans and conservatives who see this not from the perspective of the president sending out a racist tweet, but of an
overreaction by what they see as a far-left Democratic Party that is always seeking to portray itself as a victim, and is always pursuing identity
So you can see --
COLLINSON: -- whereas most people in the United States and in the rest of the world see this as a very pejorative moment for the president, for his
supporters and for many conservatives, it's exactly --
COLLINSON: -- the opposite.
GORANI: Also, Manu, far-left in Europe means something completely different than far-left in the United States. Oftentimes, Republicans will
call something far-left that is pretty centrist in this part of the world.
But I do wonder, I can understand why Republicans who might be concerned about, you know, tough primary battles, don't want to openly criticize the
president for some of these tweets. Privately, are you hearing different stories from some members of Congress?
RAJU: Well, certainly, they are -- don't want him to say these things because they believe that it completely undercuts their agenda, what
they're trying to sell to the American people. And as a -- and wanting to keep a focus on what they believe are Democratic policies that they believe
that a lot of voters do not like.
TEXT: Sided With Democrats on Resolution Condemning Trump: Texas Rep. Will Hurd, swing district; Pennsylvania Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick, swing
district; Michigan Rep. Fred Upton, swing district; Indiana Rep. Susan Brooks, retiring from Congress; Michigan Rep. Justin Amash, just left GOP
RAJU: But every time the president does something like this, they are put in a difficult position because they don't want to be seen as criticizing
the president for the reasons that Stephen mentioned.
[14:15:00] But also, they also don't want to -- they also realize that some of these things that the president said are not -- they can't defend. So
they are put in this awkward spot. We asked them about it, they sized up the question. It distracts from what they're trying to say.
And they're -- that's why you hear Republicans say they wish the president would stop tweeting. But of course, the president is not going to do that.
And he will continue to say things and put them in an awkward spot. Even if the president believes it may help him politically, a lot of Republicans
on Capitol Hill believe it does not.
GORANI: And lastly, Stephen, as far as 2020 is concerned, is the president trying to, as you mentioned, portray the Democratic Party as this radical
far-left party represented by the members of the so-called Squad, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others? That's the strategy? Is that what
we're going to see more of, going forward?
COLLINSON: Yes. And I think we're going to see it in a few hours when the president holds his latest re-election rally.
COLLINSON: President Trump is pursuing quite --
GORANI: Because it's working with the base, we've seen that? It's working with the base?
COLLINSON: Right. So President Trump is pursuing what is clearly a strategy of racial resentment in his re-election campaign, much as he did
on the issue of immigration during the 2016 campaign.
We all -- we've talked about -- often about this, how he sees politics as an approach by which you get support from your base, you solidify that
support, you get them to turn out in massive numbers.
The question, going into 2020, is will it work as well as it did in 2016. The evidence from some of the midterm election results in 2018 is that the
president's scorched-earth immigration rhetoric did turn away some moderate voters, moderate Republicans, independents who he needs to come back to him
in order to win a very narrow victory in 2020.
And, of course, Hillary Clinton, his opponent in 2016, was a very unpopular and controversial figure herself. If the Democrats manage to nominate
somebody that doesn't have that handicap, a lot of people think that the way that the president is pursuing his re-election campaign could
ultimately end up in defeat.
But a lot depends on whether he can demonize that Democratic candidate and define them as being from the same radical left wing stream of thought that
he sees these four congresswomen, you know, exemplifying.
GORANI: Manu Raju, thanks so much.
Stephen Collinson, thanks for joining us.
Still to come tonight, an interesting perspective on American immigration. A pro football player is donating thousands of dollars to help families at
an immigrant detention center in Texas. I'll talk to him, ahead.
Also ahead, Europe takes action on big tech, launching a major anti-trust probe into Amazon. How will that change the way you shop online? We'll
[14:20:04] GORANI: So we all use these websites. The reach of big tech companies like Facebook, Apple, Google and Amazon is increasingly coming
under scrutiny for that reason.
Governments and consumers are becoming more aware of the way in which they permeate all of our daily lives. More and more, we're forced to ask
ourselves, "Do they have too much power? Do they know too much about us?" At the heart of this are concerns over privacy, concerns over competition
And now, it seems that the European Union is taking action. It's launching a major antitrust probe into Amazon in particular. We pretty much, pretty
sure that most of you have shopped on Amazon.
They'll investigate whether the retail giant is abusing its dominant position by using third-party sellers' data unfairly. At issue is the buy
box on Amazon's website. And there, you see it when you search for something. It's a massive boon to any seller that has it. Amazon, and how
it decides which sellers get the box, is unclear. And remember, Amazon not only hosts a marketplace, but it's a seller as well.
Let's get more on this. Hadas Gold is here.
So talk -- what has regulators concerned? What is the -- for anybody who hasn't shopped on Amazon? What is this buy box? It pops up when you
search for something and it suggests something for you to buy?
HADAS GOLD, CNN REPORTER: The buy box is one of sort of two main issues that the European Union competition regulator is looking into. Now, the
buy box is something special that on other products, you and I have to click through to the product page in order to put it into your cart. But
this buy box allows you straight from search to say, "Oh, I want that one." And having that button could obviously increase sales.
But the main thing that the E.U. is looking into is actually the fact that Amazon is both a marketplace where third-party sellers can sell their
goods, but also Amazon is also creating its own products and sometimes, some sellers complain that Amazon will copy their products and start
selling them under the Amazon brand, which then Amazon, then, of course, promotes.
Because if you search on Amazon, sometimes it'll say underneath, you know, "These are some alternatives from Amazon itself." And what the E.U. is
looking into is whether this gives them an unfair advantage because they get data about --
GOLD: -- what's selling the best, they get a lot of data about what's going on in this marketplace, and then they can create their own
GORANI: Can you give me an example of a product that Amazon is accused of having copied, something that Amazon manufactures, sells under its own
GOLD: So Amazon actually has a surprising number of its own name-brand items, everything from toilet paper to diapers to mattresses.
GORANI: Right. See, I had no idea.
GOLD: Right. Because they might not be labeled, "Amazon." They might have a different label. But a lot of them might be connected to the parent
company of Amazon or just to Amazon as kind of the overall umbrella.
But there are some complaints from sellers. Now, Amazon wants -- says that, you know, they don't necessarily use the seller data to inform their
decisions on what they make. But sellers have complained that they have created things -- for example a computer stand -- and then Amazon will
start selling a similar computer stand for cheaper.
GORANI: But they don't manufacture it? Or do they?
GOLD: Well, for third-party resellers, they can contract with Amazon, then Amazon will sell it on their platform and even that they'll host it in
their warehouses for them.
But also, Amazon does manufacture. I mean, through its subsidiaries --
GORANI: Right, right.
GOLD: -- it does make some of its own goods. Like if you think about, have you heard of Amazon Basics? These are some Amazon-branded products
that you can buy.
GORANI: And it goes beyond that. Now, there's talk of some of these big tech giants wanting to launch their own currency. And when you look at the
subscriber numbers for a website like Facebook for instance, even if a small portion of people started using a cryptocurrency from one of these
websites, they could rival traditional currencies.
And elected representatives in the U.S. -- Maxine Waters in particular -- had this to say about a Facebook cryptocurrency, potentially.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Ultimately, if Facebook's plans come to fruition, the company and its partners will wield immense economic power
that would -- that could destabilize currencies and governments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So there you have it, you know? Can they be prevented from doing this?
GOLD: Theoretically, that's what the regulators probably want to do. There's been a lot of skepticism from regulators about Facebook getting
into this cryptocurrency arena.
Because think about it. Like you said, Facebook has about two billion users. If even half of them or even a quarter of them start using this
cryptocurrency as their main way of doing business, what effect is that going to have on the global monetary policy and the way things work right
now? That is a question that a lot of people are looking for the answer.
GORANI: Sure. You shop on Amazon, right?
GORANI: See, I do too and I learned something today, to be more careful to make sure that I don't automatically click on the first suggested -- I
guess that's advice we could give users, or --
GOLD: Yes. And that's the question that the regulator is looking at, saying whether there is an unfair advantage to Amazon, to this huge company
where a lot of people do their shopping to the -- to the competitive landscape, to a smaller company out there. Because having your ranking on
Amazon, that could be make-or-break for a company.
[14:25:02] GORANI: Yes. Hadas Gold, thanks very much for that.
Elon Musk wants to insert implants into your brain. He says the Bluetooth- enabled devices could enable telepathy. It consists of a tiny chip -- this just doesn't sound real, but anyway, he did say all this -- it consists of
a tiny chip connected to 1,000 wires, measuring one-tenth the width of a human hair. A robot would insert it by drilling two-millimeter holes into
a person's skull.
The entrepreneur says his new project is a way to use artificial intelligence for the good of humanity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, FOUNDER, NEURALINK: I think even in a benign A.I. scenario, we will be left behind. And so hopefully it is a benign scenario. But I
think with a high-bandwidth brain-machine interface, I think we can actually go along for the ride. And we can effectively have the option of
merging with A.I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's take you to San Francisco. Ahiza Garcia has been following this story.
So this does sound -- I'll just be blunt. It just sounds a little nuts, the idea that a robot's going to implant a chip into our brain. That being
said, 50 years ago, if somebody had predicted half the things we use every day today, they would have been called nuts, too. What should we think of
AHIZA GARCIA, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: I think it's definitely -- I mean, the science behind it is definitely been out for a while. What's cutting-edge
about what Elon Musk is proposing and what this company is proposing is that the threadlike insertion in the brain is very, very noninvasive
because it's so, so thin.
And so it will hopefully allow the company to, you know, help people with medical needs or, as Elon said, to help people who just want a memory
But essentially, I mean, it is a very, you know -- I certainly don't see myself signing up for this any time soon. It seems like, you know, unless
there is a definite medical need, inserting stuff into the brain seems like a really risky procedure.
Obviously, Elon has addressed some of those concerns and said that, you now, they're working and continuing to, you know, test on mice, on rats, on
-- there was even a test on a monkey.
And so it's a long way, I think, from being tested on humans. But Musk is hoping to get human clinical trials started by the end of 2020, so we'll
GORANI: And how are markets, investors just Elon Musk observers reacting to all of this? He's said some outlandish things in the past.
GARCIA: Right. So his big concern is that A.I. is coming and is going to be this potentially nefarious thing that he sees the way forward for humans
as trying to have kind of a symbiotic or a merging of relationships.
He's talked a lot about, you know, if when A.I., like if it does have a beneficial response, we still want -- humans still want to be a part of
that. Twitter, you know, was abuzz with scientists saying that this technology has been out for a while. The science behind it is not quite as
novel as it might seem.
But there is some unique -- there are some unique aspects to what Neuralink is trying to do, just in the terms of how they're approaching it and how
thin this threadlike insertion into the brain would be. And the fact that, you know, it would eventually -- while it's still in a prototype phase
right now, the eventual plan is for it to wirelessly transmit signals from within the brain, and information.
But that raises a lot of concerns, obviously, right? You've got privacy issues, consent --
GORANI: Well, we're concerned about Amazon buy boxes, so --
GARCIA: -- what's happening with that data --
GORANI: I was just going to say, we're concerned about much more benign things today, about who's collecting my data if I buy a vacuum cleaner
online. I can't even imagine what kind of can of worms it opens up if we start putting chips in our heads.
GARCIA: Absolutely. I mean, you have so many -- you know, a lot of the implications for the medical -- people with medical needs, that raises a
lot of concerns about consent, right? If some of these individuals aren't able to verbalize consent or you know, give that in a way that's
recognizable to doctors, how are we proceeding with this?
But again, as you also pointed out, just the privacy concerns are a huge thing. They're literally -- would be able to potentially see -- you know,
monitor your innermost workings.
GORANI: Well, I think people would be quite disappointed. Ahiza Garcia, thanks very much for joining us, live from San Francisco.
[14:29:57] Still to come tonight, new rules in the United States targeting people outside its borders. Mexico says no. We are live in Mexico City,
GORANI: The Trump administration is facing pushback against a new rule aimed at reducing migration along the southern U.S. border. The rule would
require migrants traveling through Mexico to seek asylum there before heading on to the United States.
Now, Mexico's foreign ministers says its country disagrees with the plan and suggests that Mexico may not cooperate with that plan.
Senior International Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh has more on the story. He's live in Mexico City. So, what are the Mexicans saying about these new
asylum rules proposed by the U.S.?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, essentially, this particular new rule could end asylum for Central
Americans heading to the U.S.-Mexico border. Because it says frankly, if you transit it through Mexico, that's where you should be applying for
Now, Mexico has had a pretty welcoming policy, frankly, to the hundreds of thousands of Central Americans over the last year or so have headed north
towards the U.S./Mexico border.
But slowly, I think, as time, we've seen a poll coming up today suggesting six out of 10 Mexicans aren't particularly continuing that welcome in the
way they had in the past. You got to remember a lot of these border towns, thousands of Central Americans waiting for the U.S. to call their number.
They have entered into a voluntary queueing system and then U.S. agents say, right, let's go and hear your case.
It seems now, since this new rule went in yesterday, that those people are still being called. This isn't quite clear whether or not new rule means
that all Central Americans who have transited for a third country are no longer eligible for asylum.
I understand it's probably going to take about a week or so for the court to adjudicate this challenge being put forth forward by human rights groups
and advocates against the particular rule. Whether that's successful or not, of course, we'll potentially determine the faith of whether Central
Americans can continue to do this at all. It's the exceptions for how people can still apply under this new rule are incredibly slide and
incredibly hard to prove.
So it does essentially amount to yet another move of the Trump administration to end what has been a decade's long of migration north.
GORANI: And this poll that you mentioned 55 percent of Mexicans support sending migrants back to their country of origin, is that number up? I
mean, what's behind -- it's more than half. So it's a majority of Mexicans support deporting these migrants. Why is that?
PATON WALSH: This is essentially, I think, the impact of months of pressure from Washington and the results of migrants who would normally try
and find their way into the United States, finding that harder, find themselves caught in Mexico, and Mexico having to deal with that, having to
issue humanitarian visas. Having now slowly to perhaps consider this asylum case of many Central Americans as well. And Mexico dealing with the
consequences of that slowly overtime. Mexico is sending National Guard troops in Mexican-Guatemala border as well, we've seen.
[14:35:26] They've done all they can to make it practically harder and harder for migrants to move through. But it hasn't lessen the need for
these Central Americans to try and find some asylum somewhere and the risk they're willing to endure in order to try and get a chance of a better life
in the United States. It just seems potentially, this new rule, may legally make the whole journey pointless, because the United States will
not be addressing asylum cases like that. It's to say it could face a potentially, they called court challenge in the week ahead or so.
But still, this slow drumbeat of pressure from Donald Trump is pressuring Central American countries to do more themselves as well. As it seems
having some kind of impact not least on Mexican public opinion, too, towards people frankly from Central America just want a better life half
the time, Hala.
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh in Mexico, thanks very much.
The U.S. sports star is taking a special interest in the immigration crisis. Josh Norman of the NFL's Washington Redskins is joining me from
And, Josh, these pictures show you at the U.S.-Mexico border. And you've taken a special interest in this migration crisis at the border. You've
visited detention centers over the last several months. Why are you -- and you've donated money as well to some of these respite centers. Why are you
so interested in what's going on in that part of the U.S.?
JOSH NORMAN, AMERICAN FOOTBALL PLAYER: Because it's important. It's important for us as U.S. citizens to stand up to anything that we feel
that's necessarily right. We was born in this country. We all came -- didn't come from here. We all migrated here from other places. And, this
is just as much as their land and it is ours. My friend, Demario Davis, cannot be here with me today that go on with me to these different places
that we go and help support. But he feels the same way.
And also that just you see through some of the videos of what we had to go through in McAllen, Texas, and those conditions, they are shot for real.
This is real. This is in your face. You see it so you have to move. We have a lot of people that talk. There's a lot of talking and it is a lot
of things that carry on, on the shows and go on out there but -- where are you at with it? Put your money where your mouth is. That's what they say.
GORANI: What most -- what most touched you or made you emotional during these visits? What stays with you?
NORMAN: I mean the kids. The kids. I mean there was one kid out there who's running the street with his just underwear on. I mean, literally,
it's like you are thinking it was in a third world country or something. It was kind of crazy to see that when we was there at the center where they
was holding the immigrants -- and when they come there to the center, I mean, they're coming off of buses.
But these are prison buses with like cages that like literally shut off the windows from the outside world. And they come off from that and coming to
the center where you have 600 people but not -- but only eight rooms, like probably like 12 -- not even 12,000 square foot facility.
You can't house all of them people at one time and then you shove them in the rooms, and people top on each other. It's really inhumane, the kind of
conditions that they go through. But then we went back that second time and we saw some things that, you know, it still didn't help. So that's why
I decided to go out there and support and like I toll, you know, it's the just the normal that I would do.
GORANI: And what kind of response are you getting? Because I know you told my producer this isn't political. But I guess I would say it
shouldn't be political, but it is. Because on the one hand, you have, you know, one end of the political spectrum that supports closing the border or
being certainly a lot more discerning into who comes in in these migrant detention facilities. On the other end of the spectrum, you have those who
like you say this is inhumane, so you're taking a position here.
NORMAN: I mean for sure, like I'm positioning for what's right, no matter what it is. I mean, that's right. I mean, we all didn't come here. We
didn't come here. This was not our land. We want to be honest with you -- this isn't his land before we got here, everyone. So when we got here, it
just seems like we ended up building something more and we ended up making it our own infrastructure.
[14:40:10] And so when you look at that, Everyone has a right to come over and have due process. I mean, it's not what we are founded upon. And it
seems to me that we lost that. We lost that (INAUDIBLE) touch. And for me, I'm just trying to do all I can to help and prove that situation
whether this is political or not political.
I mean, we sit up here and we talk about the president so much and it seems as to me that's just a smoke screen. What are we going to do to actually
really put people on the grounds and put boots on the ground and actually move the situation that's happening?
GORANI: What kind of response have you been getting from football fans, from your fans to this? Because, of course, as our -- this is a big
international issue, you're here on CNN International and people are talking a lot about what's going on at the U.S. border, and whether it was
taking knee or other things that big sporting stars have done in the past, they've sometimes gotten negative, they gotten flat for it. Have you had
any negative reaction to what you've done?
NORMAN: Of course. Of course, there's negativity. No matter what you do in life, there's always going to be negativity. I was going to be the
people that just wake up by their morning, I mean, wake up out the bed in the morning and just decide to be negative because that's who they are.
You can't -- you can't do anything about that.
What you can do is just go out there and continue to do what's right and what you feel is right thing to do. You can't worry about those people.
They are who they are, you're not going to change them. So I don't even look at them.
What I do though is I use my resources, I help what I can and try to benefit the people who need it the most, because those are the ones that's
struggling. I don't feel like I wake up every morning, I don't struggle. But people are and I see that firsthand. I try to do as much as I can to
help, because that's my purpose in life, to help others.
GORANI: Yes. I've seen just over the last over few months, the centers you've visited, the money you've donated, what's your plan? What's your
next visit? What's your next trip?
NORMAN: Oh, man, I have big plans. I have huge plans.
GORANI: Tell me about it.
NORMAN: Oh my gosh, to tell you about, I'm just giving you a little bit of my ideas, the little army, the Swiss knife that we have in our back pocket
to throw out there. But, no, I'm definitely helping out big time in McAllen. We're doing some more things there as well to see if we can help
out the immigration situation there and moving some people around and helping that situation out.
Because, I think that facility -- I mean, they bring in at least 600 people a day. You know, that facility, sometimes, it get overcrowded. So, you
know, I'm using my resources and what I do have to try and help out and getting things moving as far as facility-wise and transportation, moving
things a little bit more smoother than they are right now.
Because it's hectic. And if anybody ever step foot in that place where on the ground, they will see for themselves. But a lot of people just talk
about it, instead of actually being about it. And that's my whole issue. I mean, we can talk about all the other stuff. But if you're not actually
putting action into what you're saying, you are just like the people who against us. This is not -- it's not a good feeling. It is not a good
GORANI: Josh Norman, Washington redskins, quarterback, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Good luck to you.
NORMAN: Yes, for sure. Thank you guys for having us. I mean, you can stay tuned. I'm sure that there'll be a lot more things that's coming up
about what we are doing and how we are helping out the kids and everybody and the families at the border, because they needed the most.
GORANI: We'll stay in touch. Thanks so much, Josh.
Still to come tonight, outgoing British prime minister, Theresa May, says politics have sunk to an all-time low. Find out who she's blaming for
[14:45:09] GORANI: The outgoing British Prime Minister, Theresa May, is delivering a warning about the state of politics in the U.K. and around the
world, a week before she leaves office. In her last major speech before she steps down, Mrs. May said politicians, on the right and left, have lost
the ability to compromise. She warned that's -- that that is sparking a winner-take-all approach detrimental to democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is on that school that today, we do have grounds for serious concern, both domestically and internationally,
in substance and in tone, I'm worried about the state of politics. Today, an inability to combine principles with pragmatism and make a compromise
when required seems to have driven our whole political discourse down the wrong path.
This dissent of our debate into rancor and tribal bitterness, and in some cases, even vile abuse at a criminal level, is corrosive to the democratic
values which we should all be seeking to uphold.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So there were no real fireworks here. This was kind of an exit speech. What's the main take away?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was consistent with her premiership. And in fact, there is no better person qualified to discuss
the divisions in politics, the rancor is in bitter debate that we've seen, not just in the United Kingdom, but also around the world. And she was
global in her outlook when it came to this speech.
Her key takeaway is where the importance of compromise. We expected that. When she said she was going to resign, she said compromise is not a dirty
word. She said it was also important to know when not to compromise and took her studio tone when it came to threats to the liberal international
order. She spoke about Vladimir Putin saying that the liberal idea was obsolete. She said that was incorrect. She said it was cynical.
She also made a couple of statements which can easily be seen through the prism of criticisms of President Trump this week. She spoke about not
seeing international politics as a zero-sum gain while one country gains and another loses. She caution against adversarial international
relations. So she did have a lot to say about that.
On Brexit, she said she was deeply disappointed, the state of affairs are where they are. She didn't have a lot to say about how a successor should
take this forward necessarily. She did, in a fairly passionate piece, of the speech, she said that she put her job on the line in order to achieve
the compromise that she thought was necessary. But it didn't work, as we know, even though that she managed to pass -- well, failed to pass her bill
with a slightly slim of majority each time. She was unsuccessful.
GORANI: We covered every second of that. And this time, next week, it'll be goodbye Theresa May and hello -- we are expecting Boris Johnson.
NOBILO: We are. All the polls, all the anecdotal advents of conservative members that we've spoken to suggest that Boris Johnson is far and away
going to be the winner of this leadership contest.
Today, she gave an ultimate performance and prime minister's question time, so she will likely do that as well next Wednesday and then the prime
ministers will switch over, so Theresa May will leave Downing Street, the new prime minister will come in. We'll have the former announcement though
of who it is going to be around noon London time on the 23rd.
GORANI: OK, Tuesday?
NOBILO: Yes. All the focus is on that.
GORANI: Thank you very much, Bianca Nobilo.
Zimbabwe is facing severe drought. More than two million people there now lack access to clean water. With our story, here's David McKenzie.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Harare, the taps are running dry. More than a million people in Zimbabwe's capital
like Ben Mungkosa (ph) are struggling under severe water restrictions after the city began the rationing program.
Locals can now only access clean tap water once a week, forcing them to turn to water merchants, open wells and boreholes to fill the void.
[14:50:07] There is no water coming from the taps. We have to depend on boreholes water. And you got to have a wheelbarrow to push up some
(INAUDIBLE) from the borehole to a place. It's just bad. It's that bad.
MCKENZIE: City officials say a severe drought and the cost of the purifying process has drained the city's reservoirs and resources. The
latest sign that Zimbabwe's economy is all but collapsing.
Prices of basic supplies like sugar and cooking oil have skyrocketed in the past month, in some cases soaring by 200 percent.
KUDZAI MUTSAKA, HARARE RESIDENT: I think it's also making us a less consumptive population. Because now you have to really see what is
necessary? Do I need this? Maybe not.
MCKENZIE: The inflation rate has nearly doubled since May, reaching 175 percent in June. That's a troubling uptick for a country that saw
hyperinflation grow to 500 billion percent in 2008 at the height of its financial collapse.
Zimbabwe's president, Emmerson Mnangagwa, promised to turn around the battered economy after he replaced Robert Mugabe in 2017 in an apparent
coup. But widespread shortages have lingered.
CHARLES MWAZHA, HARARE RESIDENT (through translator): Life is becoming tougher for us because we do not have money to buy diesel and the price
increase means only those who are rich can afford to buy.
MCKENZIE: Businesses are also floundering, as power companies cut electricity to keep up with the demand. Sometimes, for over 18 hours a day
causing production lines to slow to a crawl and leaving workers in the dark.
KENNEDY GAMBANGA, WELDER, FABRICATOR (through translator): I feel ill after working in the cold for two nights in a row. I'm still not well.
But I had to come or else my family will not eat.
MCKENZIE: A struggle for bare necessities felt millions of times over.
David McKenzie, CNN.
GORANI: Staying in Africa on the ongoing Ebola outbreak that shows no sign of slowing down. The World Health Organization is now calling it a public
health emergency of international concern. As of Monday, there have been 2,512 Ebola cases and 1,676 deaths in this outbreak that began last August.
We'll be right back.
GORANI: Well, it was the wild moment during the huge Bastille Day parade in Paris over the weekend. When a man quite literally floated in the sky,
showing off some pretty impressive hoverboard technology.
CNN"s Melissa Bell sat down the inventor and find out where he hopes to fly to next.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Neither a bird nor a plane, but a fly board air above Paris on Bastille Day caught the world's
imagination. But this was the view from the man flying it.
Right now, it can reach an altitude of nearly 500 feet with the potential to go much higher and a speed of 140 kilometers per hour.
A vision of the future developed by the French jet-ski champion who demonstrated it himself on Sunday, holding a replica weapon. Franky Zapata
began his quest with hydroflyers, using the power from personal watercraft like jet skis to take to the air. Now, though, he's taken his technology
to another level.
[14:55:05] FRANKY ZAPATA, INVENTOR, FLYBOARD AIR: When you fly with your body and then you see that your hands affect the direction you want to go
and you feel the air through your finger before the wind affects your body, it's like coming like birth.
BELL: The key, says Franky Zapata, was being able to place turbine engines over conventional electric propellers to allow intuitive flight controls
designed around the human body. It may sound complicated but he says it all comes down to one single dream -- the dream of being able to fly.
ZAPATA: The one I enjoyed the most is when I'm alone, flying around the desert and around the mountain. That's why I drew the mission.
When you fly in front of people and when you get some majors and some attractions, that helps. That's help to jump to the next step. But in my
heart, I -- the best is the freedom.
BELL: Early on, the French Defense Ministry saw a future and decided to invest $1.4 million in tests of the board in the hope that it might give
the French military a technological edge.
Back in 1989, the makers of "Back to the Future Part II" had imagined hoverboards used by civilians but that, says Zapata, will still take some
ZAPATA: The problem is not the technology, the problem is the regulations, first. How we can create enough safety and convince the government that
it's safe enough.
BELL: In 2016, Zapata broke the world record for a hoverboard flight, traveling more than 2,200 meters in the South of France.
Next week, though, he'll attempt to go much, much further still, traveling from France to England to mark the 110th anniversary of the first flight
across. If he makes it, the ride will blow away his previous record as he gets the first real bird's-eye view of the English Channel.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Marseille.
GORANI: That was quite something on the Bastille Day celebrations as he hovered above all the world leaders gathered there.
Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time, but stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.