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CNN International: Robert Mueller Testifies in Capitol Hill; Theresa May Delivers Her Final Speech at 10 Downing Street. Aired 9- 10a ET

Aired July 24, 2019 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, and a very warm welcome. You have been watching Robert Mueller testifying on Capitol Hill. It's a very busy day in news today. We are keeping a close eye on Washington, but also have another eye right here in the U.K.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Two big stories. Robert Mueller is testifying on Capitol Hill and in Downing Street in London, we are awaiting the Prime Minister Theresa May, her last act and statement will be a speech on the doorstep of Number 10 before she resigns.

Two stories, complete coverage. It's all here on CNN. Back to Washington.

(SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER HEARING ON CAPITOL HILL)

[09:26:41] QUEST: Go.

SOARES: We want to leave Washington and Robert Mueller and go to Downing Street, Theresa May about to make her last speech as Prime Minister. Let's listen in.

THERESA MAY, OUTGOING BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I am about to go to Buckingham Palace to tender my resignation to Her Majesty the Queen and to advise her to ask Boris Johnson to form a new administration.

I repeat my warm congratulations to Boris on winning the Conservative leadership election. I wish him and the Government he will lead every good fortune in the months and years ahead. Their successes will be our country's successes, and I hope that they will be many. Their achievements will build on the work of nearly a decade of Conservative or Conservative-led government. During that time our economy has been restored, our public services reformed, and our values defended on the world stage.

Of course, much remains to be done -- the immediate priority being to complete our exit from the European Union in a way that works for the whole United Kingdom.

With success in that task can come a new beginning for our country -- a national renewal that can move us beyond the current impasse into the bright future the British people deserve.

To serve as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is the greatest honor. The heavy responsibilities are outweighed by the huge potential to serve your country. But you achieve nothing alone.

And as I leave Downing Street, my final words are of sincere thanks. To my colleagues in Government and Parliament, to everyone in the building behind me and across the Civil Service. To the men and women of our Armed Forces and security services, and to the public servants in our schools, our NHS, our police and the other emergency services. All are inspired by the noble wish to serve their country in the national interest.

I also want to thank the British people. Everyone who loves our great country, who works hard for their family and wants their children and grandchildren to enjoy greater opportunity than they did. Thank you for putting your faith in me and giving me the chance to serve.

This is a country of aspiration and opportunity and I hope that every young girl who has seen a woman Prime Minister now knows for sure that there are no limits to what they can achieve.

Finally and most of all, I want to thank my husband Philip, who has been my greatest supporter and my closest companion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop, Brexit.

PHILIP MAY, HUSBAND OF THERESA MAY: Farewell to me.

T. MAY: I think the answer to that is, I think not. I am about to leave Downing Street but I am proud to continue as the Member of Parliament for Maidenhead. I will continue to do all I can to serve the national interest. And play my part in making our United Kingdom a great country with a great future, a country that truly works for everyone.

(Applause)

QUEST: "It is the greatest privilege of my life to have served as your Prime Minister," and how fitting. The final thanks goes to Philip, her husband, who has been rock solid next to her throughout.

The Prime Minister more composed than when she resigned. I suspect she has gotten used to the idea that she is giving up Number 10 and he will be soon going to resign to the Queen.

SOARES: Perhaps, Richard, she is breathing a sigh of relief. Of course, it is an honor for her. She said, "You achieve nothing alone." But she also called in a new beginning and national renewal. Let's go to Nic Robertson who is at 10 Downing Street.,

QUEST: Nic, as we look at what's happening, Nic, composed -- the Prime Minister was composed. But clearly deeply regretful at her failure on Brexit.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think so absolutely. You know, there was definitely a tone of emotion. She was composed. I have to admit, I've had trouble hearing what you two have been saying because of the absolute level of applause that have come from her staff and came out of the door at Number 11 here and gathered on the street.

I've been looking at them while she was speaking, they were absolutely in rapt attention. Clearly, a very strong emotional bond to the job, to a sense of duty, to her sense of service, to thank everyone, not just her staff here, but to thank the members of her party, Members of Parliament, to thank the members of the British services, to thank the teachers, to thank the policemen to thank anyone working for the country for their service -- service and duty there.

But there was that hint of emotion and such, such a poignant moment, as she walks down the street with really the closest person in her political life. Of course, in her personal life, her husband, Philip it at her side. That was difficult. That was -- as she walked to her car, that felt to me, a very poignant moment. And it was to the utterly riotous applause of her staff.

I was struck when she was reading through this carefully prepared script, word for word carefully delivered carefully nuanced. There was that moment where she paused and you could hear that lone heckler outside Downing Street, as he always is these days, standing there saying "Stop, Brexit." The Prime Minister pause for that moment and said, "I think not." That was a spontaneous moment.

Her gift, perhaps to that heckler, and her gift to the country that she might have failed in Brexit. She still believes in it, she believes it will be delivered.

QUEST: Nic, we're now watching the Prime Minister drive. The car is going down The Mall towards Buckingham Palace, a route taken many times but of course, the Prime Minister clearly will be thinking about the time that she took it only three years ago to become Prime Minister.

JOEY JONES, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR THERESA MAY: Yes. And that time I was inside Downing Street, watching this play out on little screens above. Previously, as a journalist, I would have been in the street and you know what, I was rather longing to be there as well, slightly artificial sense being inside the building, watching the boss as she was and will be only for a short time more making a speech, but it's very emotional.

When I went into the building, there were David Cameron staff coming out, many of them actually, in tears. This group, I think, have had more time to prepare.

QUEST: And also as with Cameron to May and May to Johnson. It is a transfer within your political allies. I mean, maybe not your political friends, Bianca, but at least you hope -- and here we go into the round of Victoria Monument, and through the gates into Buckingham Palace.

Her Majesty the Queen had to delay her holiday in Balmoral. Erin McLaughlin is there. Erin, take the story, please.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Richard. We just saw British Prime Minister Theresa May arrive here at Buckingham Palace. She drove down The Mall. She drove around here through a small crowd that's gathered at the gates of the Palace forecourt. She will be meeting for a private audience with the Queen, her last such audience as tradition here in the United Kingdom every week, the Prime Minister meets with the Queen in confidence.

[09:35:10] MCLAUGHLIN: Their private meetings -- we will not know exactly what is said between the two of them, no one else will be in the room. But it is thought that during this meeting, she will submit her resignation and then advise the Queen to appoint a successor in this case, Boris Johnson, saying that he would be able to take this and to be able to form a government here. Yes.

QUEST: Erin, let me just interrupt you a second because now we have the Queen arriving at the entrance to the palace, being greeted by ladies in waiting and by the equerry. Enters the palace and will then make the walk up this grand staircase to one of the drawing rooms, maybe the yellow room, which where the Queen would have the audience with her Prime Minister. It will be a short meeting.

SOARES: And this of course will be the Queen's 14th Prime Minister. Is that right, Joey? Just talk us through because it's for -- of course, for Theresa May, she has been here before, but for Boris Johnson we're expecting to visit, this is this is an important one.

JONES: It is a huge moment, obviously a huge honor for our Prime Minister, so I can only imagine the nerves that will be jangling in Boris Johnson's stomach. I remember actually the days before Teresa May was preparing for this, there were all manner of -- so actually, there were outfits coming in through the building. I wonder whether the same is to be sartorially shambolic. Boris Johnson will be a bit dressed up.

QUEST: This is a clever. This is a clever.

SOARES: Very clever.

QUEST: Recognizing that the helicopter is the vehicle de jour to getting the message out, "Put it to the People," this vast --

SOARES: Right in front of Buckingham Palace gates there.

QUEST: Absolutely.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We should mention also that the changeover is meticulously time to make sure that the country is not long or even moments without a Prime Minister.

SOARES: How long are we then, Bianca?

NOBILO: It's a fairly short meeting with the Queen. And once Theresa May has spoken to the Queen, Boris Johnson will be arriving at that point. So, he can then meet with the Queen himself.

SOARES: Very much --

QUEST: But they choreograph, not only within the Palace, so the two don't meet, but they choreograph so the cars don't pass.

NOBILO: And also, Joey, correct me if I'm wrong, but you arrive, for Theresa May as Prime Minister with the Prime Ministerial car and all the trappings, but when you leave --

SOARES: When you leave, you get your own.

NOBILO: It's rather brutal. You don't have any of it.

SOARES: The trappings of the office, quickly --

JONES: But you know what, she has made it clear that she is quite looking forward to heading back to the humdrum life of being a constituency here.

QUEST: Right, so I think what it was is the days that the Prime Minister's car -- in the old days, it used to be a large Rover. Now, it's a --

SOARES: And oh so grand.

QUEST: It's a Jaguar. But the Prime Minister's car is hardened. It has the communications devices. It is bulletproof and bombproof. As a former Prime Minister, she will be entitled to a car, a driver and security for the rest of her life. But she doesn't get the big one. She doesn't get the big car. And that will be waiting for Boris Johnson. There will be another -- probably a Jaguar -- you're not going to really notice much difference.

JONES; I don't think she'll be too worried about those. I remember sitting in the back of the car when she was Home Secretary and I've just had to nip out and buy her a Tesco sort of cheese and chicken sandwich since she was getting stuck into, so she is -- the airs and graces if you like are not really her thing.

NOBILO: And therein lies the stark difference. I'm sure for Boris Johnson, those airs and graces and those trappings of the glory of the office will be held in very high esteem indeed.

QUEST: But as Foreign Secretary, he has had this before. I mean, he has been around the seats of power.

NOBILO: He has. Well, he has had a fairly long career as Member of Parliament, as Mayor of London as well, that was an incredibly prominent role where he got to address audiences, thousands when the Olympics were happening in London, too.

But of course, he's held a great Office of State and he has mixed with heads of state and diplomats frequently.

JONES: But he always subverts expectations of dignity. The biggest -- the image of him around the world is probably, the most famous one is him hanging on the zip wire waving at a couple of union jacks in the run up to the Olympics.

SOARES: But as the man who lives and breathes history, he will be taking -- he knows the importance of this moment. He would know the importance of walking through these doors.

JONES: It is a huge, huge honor for him and for all his team who I think you know, will be brimming with excitement at the moment. But there is also some expectation that he can address some of the substance of the sorts of things that people with the banners are asking him for on the steps of Downing Street.

[09:40:05] QUEST: Let's go to our correspondents, we have them with us, hopefully. Nic Robertson. Nic, are you still with us in Downing Street? Briefly, Nic, because we want to get to Erin as well, briefly tell me, how has Downing Street moved on now Theresa May has left?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think everyone is waiting for the next phase of this here at Downing Street, and it is that anticipated moment it really is that, you know, technically there'll be a few minutes where the country is without a Prime Minister.

But it's Boris Johnson now. The man really is going to come back, not as Boris Johnson, not as a former Foreign Secretary, not as the former Mayor of London, not as a former journalist at "The Times" and as a former journalist at "The Telegraph," not as a former editor of the "Spectator" magazine, either. No, he will be coming back as Prime Minister and I think that's what everyone now is waiting for.

We wait to hear what he says. We wait to see his demeanor. Is it Boris -- the Boris we saw yesterday? The dude? The shambolic? Or is it Boris now the professional statesman? We will see.

QUEST: Absolutely, you'll be there. Erin, do the tourists outside the Palace realize what a historic day this is?

MCLAUGHLIN: There is a sense of history here for sure, Richard and to what Nic was saying in terms of that private audience, the first private audience between Boris Johnson and the Queen when the Queen invites him to form a government, we won't know the exact words that are exchanged between the two of them. This is a private audience, only the two of them in the room.

But what we have gleaned from past Prime Ministers is that in that moment, the weight of the office will be on Boris Johnson. He will feel it fully.

This is a Queen that is very experienced. She has helped this country navigate through some 60 years -- over 60 years of crises. And likely, I'm told by Royal observers, she's going to be very concerned about Brexit. It's her role to be politically neutral. But it's also her role to advise and to warn and to ask questions of her Ministers.

And anything that can be seen as a threat to the union will be seen as a concern to the Queen, so it'll be interesting. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting.

NOBILO: As Erin mentioned, the Queen has overseen decades of political changes in the European Union. This will be the 14th Prime Minister, the second female Prime Minister, and even though the Queen would always respect absolute discretion, and we'd never get a peep about what she thought about the Prime Ministers, I have heard from within Westminster that Theresa May and the Queen supposedly do get on well. They both share a very deep seated sense of public duty.

The Queen may respond well to the fact that she is the second female Prime Minister. Theresa May is a vicar's daughter and that's often been spoken about and the fact that she does have this very strong sense of public service and she has obviously shown a resilience. Criticize her how you might hurry.

QUEST: Joey, foreigners often think and many Brits think that the Queen is just a figurehead, that you know she's got no real power. Yes, she has a bit of influence, but do the politicians take her seriously? Do they -- if the Queen is known to be displeased, is that something you really don't want?

JONES: I think one of the things that for Boris Johnson, he will be thinking -- his great political hero is Winston Churchill. He has written a book about Winston Churchill. He cites Winston Churchill all the time and he'll be looking in the eyes of Her Majesty, the Queen and he'll be knowing she actually knew Winston Churchill.

And he will be thinking, to what extent do I measure up to the political God if you like that he is holding himself against? So look, I mean any Prime Minister certainly takes this very seriously and it's an outlet for them to discuss with total discretion, anything and everything that they might wish to, but I think that Churchill link will be quite an interesting little sort of thought in the back probably of both of their minds in the room.

SOARES: And we're seeing now Joe and Bianca, another banner that has been put up right next. I think it's a Brexit -- it was a stop Brexit banner, correct me if I'm wrong, I can't see a tight shot of it now. Obviously, making the most of the fact that we've got helicopters hovering around Buckingham Palace, waiting for Theresa May to leave and for Boris Johnson to actually enter the Palace.

In many ways, we heard Erin touch on this, wanting to be a fly on the wall to get a sense of whether the Queen would -- how she would -- kind of how she views each Prime Minister.

NOBILO: We would never, ever know. And Boris Johnson nor Theresa May wouldn't get a flicker of anything that the Queen didn't want to divulge. It's interesting what Joey says about Boris Johnson's political inspiration being Churchill.

[09:45:12] NOBILO: I was speaking to somebody that knows him well yesterday. And they were saying, you have to remember that Boris Johnson doesn't just want to go down in history as a Prime Minister. This was someone that's steeped himself in the heroes of the ancient world. He wants to go down in history. He wants to almost be immortalized like a god were the words that they used.

So, all of these great events of state, this is the highest honors that could be bestowed to somebody who enters political life. This will be momentous for him. And it's something which seemed that it was evading his grasp after -- SOARES: He wants to be part of those history -- he wants to be in

those history books. He wants everyone to be reading about him. He knows this moment. But knowing that Joey, he also knows the task ahead is absolutely huge.

JONES: Yes, and I imagine he would see if you like a sort of flicker in in the eye of her majesty of like, "Well, okay, go and prove it." It's all very well --

NOBILO: It's like a sentiment shared by lots of people in Parliament and the country as well.

JONES: Yes, the desire is there, the ambition is there. You've set the yardstick very high, in terms of what you wish to do on Brexit, but also in terms of the people that you -- the individuals that you wish to emulate? Well, let's see.

I do think he is giving himself a solid chance of getting an incredibly difficult challenge off the ground by really stacking Downing Street with like-minded Brexit souls, and we'll see that probably around the Cabinet table as well. It's going to be a really formidably a sort of leave campaign charged team that's going to be unlike anything I think we've witnessed in this country.

QUEST: The importance and the significance of what we're witnessing today shouldn't be lost. Yes, there's a lot of ceremony and tradition in that sense. But what you're watching is going back to Magna Carta, and the Rights of Kings to rule and the rights of divine right, which of course, is long since gone past through the Cromwellian era, and the Reformation through to today, where it is a constitutional monarchy. Whereas Dicey put it, the Queen has the right to be advised to inform and to warn.

NOBILO: And when the Queen is having her audience with Boris Johnson, that will be the key moment where she invites him to form a government and ask him essentially, if you can form a government, now that is a very relevant question given that the working majority of this government at the moment is around two or even one, depending on how you count it.

So, the question of whether or not Boris Johnson can pass the legislation that he needs to is highly relevant.

JONES: I just bumped into one of his arch critics on the way over here on the Conservative benches, who is expecting a really inflammatory statement from Boris Johnson in the comments tomorrow, the sort of thing that will really stick it to his critics if you like and make it difficult. So, I think that it's going to be punchy.

SOARES: Let's go back to Nic Robertson who is at 10 Downing Street there. And Joey and Bianca, talking about their about the change of the guard also talking about the Cabinet, potentially a Brexit Cabinet, what are you hearing?

ROBERTSON: Well, if the rumors are correct that we heard in the British press overnight that the Priti Patel could potentially be in the running for a senior Cabinet position. We're not sure which one at the moment, but that seems to be in flux.

I traveled with Boris Johnson and Priti Patel to Nigeria a couple of years ago and I have to say they were in lockstep on that trip. She was in Overseas Development, I think, or Overseas Aid here of course with the Foreign Secretary.

And at that time, you know she came across as she does in her ministerial positions before Theresa May sacked her of course, she comes across as a sharp operator, as someone who is quite tough, who is towards the right of the party, who is a strong Brexiteer.

So, if the nomination or the seeming nomination -- expected nomination of Priti Patel to a central and important Ministerial position in the Cabinet is anything to go by, he is at least bringing in some tough Brexiteers alongside him in those top positions.

We know that the Cabinet is going to be one reflecting the face for a modern Britain. We know that it is going to have more ethnic minorities in it. We know it is going to have more women in the Cabinet in full Cabinet positions, Priti Patel would certainly represent that.

But at the moment, we don't know the inner workings of how it's all going to shake out, who will be Chancellor? Who will be Foreign Secretary? Who will be Home Secretary? The key jobs.

But the indications are that the key central Cabinet positions will be in keeping with his do or die Brexit scenario, hardliners who are willing to have a hard Brexit come the 31st of October. He doesn't appear in the close circle to want those dissenting voices, as we understand so far at least.

[09:50:10] SOARES: But Nic, if it is a Brexit heavy Cabinet, how will that be received up and down the country?

ROBERTSON: Look, Boris Johnson is already seen as a divisive figure, this will be a divisive mood and is hardly an inclusive move to not include loud voices on the key issue. It is important to have more women in full Cabinet roles. It is important to have a Cabinet that reflects modern Britain. It is important to have minorities -- ethnic minorities better reflected in the Cabinet.

These are all important for the country, they're all important for the Conservative Party to send that message. So, all important for Boris Johnson, Eton Oxford educated to send that message.

But when it comes to hearing other opinions, and it is other opinions that are so valuable, when you're in a leadership position, he is cutting himself off. And I think Theresa May hit that note in her speech here, when she said, "When you're in leadership, you cannot lead alone."

These were -- I'm paraphrasing what she said. But essentially you need other people with you. But you have to bring a weight of people with you to deliver Brexit. You have to bring the majority of Parliament and he may be making this more difficult for himself. SOARES: You achieve nothing alone.

QUEST: Nic, of course, he will be with us as we await Boris Johnson. David Morris is here, the Conservative MP who backed Jeremy Hunt for leader. We're discussing the makeup of the Cabinet.

You want a balance, but you don't necessarily want to make the same mistake that Theresa May made. At the end of the day, he wants a Brexit Cabinet.

DAVID MORRIS, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, CONSERVATIVE PARTY: Yes, he does. I mean, that is evident. From what I've seen in the reports on the news, he wants to have a third that are remainers and a Brexit heavy Cabinet. But the reality is this, and I've said it many times, we're all Brexiteers. We've just got to find a way forward and get this impasse resolved.

QUEST: You're all Brexiteers in name only. And you're all Brexiteers at different levels. He wants -- and let's put it crudely, he wants a Cabinet that's more akin to a hard Brexit, if that is what is necessary.

MORRIS: Well, again, if the news report is to be believed, Dominic Cummings is coming back, you know, that would send shockwaves through Westminster. Quite a divisive figure.

But you know, at the end of the day, Boris Johnson is Prime Minister, it's up to him who he now appoints and we have to take it from there.

SOARES: But if it's to deliver Brexit and that is the aim here, does it really matter if it's a Brexit heavy Cabinet or not?

MORRIS: In all honesty, I want to see us leave and I do want to leave, as simple as that. I don't when I leave without a deal, because I think that could -- it could pose many problems, it could be catastrophic.

You know, not project fear, project reality. But if it means us leaving without a deal, so be it. We've just got to move on now.

QUEST: And that's really important, because I was just about to jump in and ask you that point. That is the nub of it, you know, the remain -- the sort of the Brexit lights, say they don't want to live without a deal. But when faced with this option, if you don't want the withdrawal agreement, and you don't want -- you don't want the existing deal, they're not going to renegotiate it. I am not being tedious here telling us what we already know. So, what do you do?

MORRIS: Oh, my gut feeling is that we're going to see something that looks like Theresa May's deal, probably the backstop, taken out. It's probably with bells and whistles on it and lipstick and all the rest of it, to run this ship through the commons at a later date.

I can't see how the Europeans can renegotiate from scratch with the U.K. I just can't see how that can be. However, you know, we don't know. NOBILO: I am going to ask though. I bumped into some of your

colleagues from the ERG yesterday and I said them, would that certainly sound like a better route? And they said no, the withdrawal agreement is completely dead. We have to disregard it. And I said there's no kind of compromise Brexit that you would ever get behind? And they said no, because no deal is always their ideal outcome.

So, you know, then that you can factor in a big chunk of the ERG never backing anything Boris Johnson puts to Parliament. So, then how does he get anything through? Is no deal then a certainty?

MORRIS: Well, you know, I'm similar to Boris Johnson, I mean, that's why he is bringing in this Brexit heavy Cabinet, if you like. I really don't know. I haven't got an answer for you.

QUEST: But doesn't there have to be a new element added to the table because if all we do is the same existing along with the same withdrawal and the same Political Declaration, then you get the same results.

MORRIS: Oh, no deal.

QUEST: Sorry?

MORRIS: No deal.

QUEST: Well, you say no deal, but Parliament has made it clear, it won't allow a no deal.

MORRIS: It's not just Parliament, it's the Speaker you know. We've been --

NOBILO: The activist Speaker who remainers -- and he would like to see a people's vote to an overturning of the referendum. I feel like they have an ally in him because at every opportunity even when there hasn't been Parliamentary precedent to try and intervene and stop a move going through, they've been able to.

[09:55:11] NOBILO: And in fact, in the last days of Theresa May's attempts to get her withdrawal agreement through with the Cooper Bill, they did find a way to essentially force the Prime Minister's hand to go and ask for an extension, but then Theresa May did it herself and controlled the narrative.

QUEST: Nic Robertson join in here if you'd be as kind because although I will apologize if I need to interrupt you for seeing Boris Johnson or Theresa May leave. Nic Robertson, the Irish would not agree to some form of amendment to the withdrawal agreement that takes away the backstop, would they?

ROBERTSON: Actually and we've heard this from the Irish Prime Minister yesterday, he tweeted congratulations to Boris Johnson. He tweeted also that he was looking forward to engaging with Boris Johnson when Boris Johnson was ready to talk about it.

But when we read in the op-ed that was written in one of the British newspapers where the Deputy Irish Prime Minister, Simon Coveney, he said very clearly at the end of it that Ireland is in lockstep with the E.U., or rather the European Union is behind Ireland on this one, that the deal already negotiated over -- contains the backstop element is not for changing.

The Irish believe that the compromise has already been arrived that. That this was arrived that over months and months of negotiations and talks. It wasn't arrived at spontaneously, and this benefits the whole island of Ireland, the European Union and is a good deal for Britain as well.

It avoids that hard border, that hard border that both Britain and Ireland and the European Union have signed up to in terms of the Good Friday Peace Agreement that is over 20 years old now. This was enshrined. That's what the British government committed to, an open border where people on the island of Ireland and in Northern Ireland could have aspirations of both Irish and British nationality.

And anything that would put a line between that could be bad for the peace of Northern Ireland, and bad for the economy of all the Irish people.

This is something that the Irish are very clearly stating that they believe they would like to engage in a conversation with Boris Johnson, but they're being very clear that in their opinion is not going to change.

SOARES: So, we're hearing from Nic there, Nic Robertson, saying the Irish basically saying this is the best deal, this is not going to change, so what that really leaves Boris Johnson with his hands tied.

MORRIS: Yes, it's boxed him in. I mean, look, it's like I said before, you know, if you stick lipstick on Theresa May's deal and push it forward. A lot of us voted for that last time. You had some real ERGs that didn't. There's another problem that's occurring in Parliament's as well, you know, loosely called the Rori Ice. There's another group that's setting up wanting to have a deal at any cost.

You know, I'd love to say to you, I've got all the answers. I haven't. And neither does Boris Johnson.

SOARES: Are you optimistic about Boris Johnson that he can bring about change. You don't sound very --

MORRIS: No, no. Please don't think I'm doing him down. I honestly want to see him succeed, I really do. But I think if we could have a brevity of reality here and I think that what's going to happen in the long and short of it is that the ERG is going to meet some part of the way with the rest of the other groups.

I mean, I'm getting to a stage now where I'd vote for anything to get this through. I really want to. We're all sticking it.

QUEST: You are facing electoral oblivion if this doesn't work.

MORRIS: Well, not really no. Because in my seat, we want to come out and I want to come out.

QUEST: And that's as a government?

MORRIS: I'm sorry?

QUEST: As a government. The Tories will be annihilated if they do not -- if Boris Johnson fails.

MORRIS: If we don't get Brexit.

QUEST: If Boris Johnson fails.

MORRIS: If Boris Johnson fails, do you know what I think will happen? I think we'll have a Michael Howard moment. But that's not for this moment in time to debate, that's after the 31st of October.

QUEST: Right -- I think we best -- well, you probably don't remember that.

NOBILO: I don't know. No. Is it possible that hopefully not, but if other events took precedent, for example, there are now these issues of tensions in the Persian Gulf. Other events that can take over a Premiership that that might incentivize reticent Members of Parliament to just back a deal because clearly the country can't continue in this confusing status forever?

MORRIS: I would go with that. And I would go with that analogy because -- of that analysis, sorry, because at the end of all of this, this is debilitating Parliament, sorry, this is debilitating Parliament. So, we just have got to move on from it. It's about the domestic agenda as well as what's going on.

QUEST: It's a very good moment for us to just take a pause and reflect. We're coming up to the top of the hour, three o'clock in the afternoon in London on the most spectacular summer day. Not too hot. It's hot, but not too hot.

SOARES: Much better than yesterday. We were wilting yesterday, weren't we? We were --

QUEST: I put my jacket on. I decided since we are talking about new Prime Minister, we do have to be dressed --

[10:00:10]