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Trump and Race; Democrats Set to Debate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 30, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: At what age?

JADEN JEFFERSON, SIXTH GRADER: Eleven.

BALDWIN: Eleven. That's incredible.

I mean, I thought I was all right starting at 21, but you got me beat.

And since you're such a professional -- by the way, I'm so impressed by you.

JEFFERSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Mom and dad, you guys did real good.

Take a look at that camera -- this camera. See, it says number one on it. And I want you to read the tease to tell everyone when to watch the debate.

JEFFERSON: Just a few hours from now, the CNN debates, two big nights, starting tonight at 8:00 live from Detroit.

I'm Jaden Jefferson, and you're watching CNN.

BALDWIN: Bravo, my man.

JEFFERSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Congratulations. I have got a whole other hour if you want to do it.

JEFFERSON: Oh, of course.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

JEFFERSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Well done. Well done.

All right, let's continue on, shall we?

How do I even?

Let's continue on, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in Detroit. The lineup is set, the countdown is on, and 20 Democrats have converged in the Motor City to once again prove that they are the best candidate to challenge President Trump come 2020.

So, in five hours, the first 10 Democrats who were selected at random will take the stage at the beautiful and historic Fox Theatre just over the road from us.

And on the heels of this new poll, the stakes could not be higher. Joe Biden is holding on to his front-runner status with a double-digit lead over his 2020 rivals, with Senator Elizabeth Warren surging in his latest poll, while support for Senator Kamala Harris and Senator Bernie Sanders has slipped.

Now, tonight's lineup presents a whole new test for both Senators Warren and Sanders. Two icons of the progressive movement have mainly avoided confrontations. But will that change this evening?

CNN Ana Cabrera is live inside the Fox Theatre, where a number of these candidates have been arriving for their walk-throughs.

Ana, is anyone in there right now?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There sure is.

The former Governor of Colorado John Hickenlooper is taking his place behind the podium, getting a sense of the venue, learning which camera he needs to look at if he wants to speak to the television audience.

He, we are told, will be emphasizing his record tonight, as one of the only candidates who has run a business, a city and a state, because he was also former mayor of Denver and also a ran a craft beer brewery prior to his time as the Colorado governor.

And perhaps telegraphing a line of attack tonight, he tweeted this out yesterday: "Elizabeth Warren has some big ideas that have an even bigger cost. We proved in Colorado that you don't need big expensive government programs to achieve progressive goals. Let's talk about it tomorrow night."

So, as he goes after Warren on Twitter, we did see her here earlier. She will be center stage alongside Bernie Sanders, two of the most progressive candidates in the 2020 field this year. They will be flanked by more moderate candidates, people like Mayor Pete Buttigieg, as well as Beto O'Rourke, Amy Klobuchar, John Delaney.

Now, keep in mind, for a lot of these candidates, this could be their last debate of the 2020 cycle, because the debate criteria goes way up after this round. And only less than half of the candidates currently have qualified for that next round of debates.

I did speak with a longtime presidential debate adviser over the weekend, who told me the worst thing these lower-tier candidates can do is look desperate on the stage tonight. He cautioned against actually going after some of the top tier and punching.

And, rather, he says they should be looking to sell themselves for their political future.

Just a couple more candidates to do walk-throughs left today before the night's debate. And the last one will be Steve Bullock. And I just want to point him out because it's the first time he will be coming on the 2020 debate stage. He wasn't here the last time around. He's the former Montana governor.

And he will be touting his ability to win in a state Trump won in 2016. Again, his first debate appearance, so he will be wanting to introduce himself to a lot more Americans -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Ana, thank you so much. We will be back and forth, as we have been seeing various candidates take that debate stage. Thank you very much.

It has been a little more than a month since the Democrats' first debate performance, but a lot has happened.

So, CNN political commentators are here to chat about what they will be watching for, what excites them, who has the most to lose.

So, with me, David Urban. He is a Trump 2020 campaign adviser and a D.C. lobbyist who represents interest in defense, transportation and energy companies.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: There's some bass happening out here, by the way.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Also here, CNN contributors Bakari Sellers, Angela Rye, and Alexandra Rojas, who is the executive director of Justice Democrats.

They're rolling -- they're rolling it out just for us this afternoon.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: So, first, let's...

(LAUGHTER)

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I thought that was David playing E- 40 on his phone over here.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I don't know if everyone at home can hear this, but...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: This after quoting Snoop Dogg this morning.

All right, so, anyway, all right, let me get the train back on the tracks here.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Round-robin.

Alexandra, first to you.

Just what is the one thing you're really watching for this evening?

[15:05:03]

ALEXANDRA ROJAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JUSTICE DEMOCRATS: Well, I think you have sort of two wings of the Democratic Party.

You have Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who are talking about Trump as a symptom to many problems that America is facing, and I think the more moderate candidates on stage that are talking about Trump as the problem.

So I think what we're going to be watching is the sort of progressive champions on stage, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, making their case to voters as to why their vision of a new Democratic Party that excites young people like myself, women and people of color, vs. largely the Democratic Party of the 1990s that mimicked Republicans in a lot of way and catered a lot to Wall Street and corporations.

So their vision is going after the power structures that have been halting progress in America for so long, as opposed to catering to Republicans.

BALDWIN: Angela Rye, what are you looking for?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, I'm looking for just remembering the names of some of the people who are going to be on the stage.

It like there's this thing that comes to mind. There's something from "Real Housewives of Atlanta" back in the day, last time I probably watched it, when they said -- Porsha said, "Who said that?"

It's like, that's going to be a who said that moment, like, really, who was that?

I also think, just to your point, Alexandra, I think it's important for us to see the Democratic Party as a spectrum.

BALDWIN: Yes.

RYE: I don't believe there's a really -- too much now of an us vs. them. I think the beauty of having 9,000 people running for president is that there is people -- there are people that are super progressive, and there are people that are kind of more moderate.

There's a full spectrum now.

BALDWIN: Yes.

RYE: I'm sure Kamala Harris may not have a Medicare for all plan that mirrors Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but she's certainly not Mayor Bullock.

And I think that that's important for us to recognize as well.

BALDWIN: Governor Bullock, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: What did I say?

BALDWIN: Mayor.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Oh, sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't to demote him.

BALDWIN: We should remind everyone you have officially endorsed Senator Harris. That said, what's the one thing you're really watching for?

SELLERS: I'm watching for Hickenlooper and Bullock tonight.

I think it's going to be like Hickenlooper and Bullock vs. everybody.

RYE: And that's Hicken -- isn't it Hickenhooper?

SELLERS: Hickenlooper and Bullock.

BALDWIN: Are you serious?

RYE: Mayor.

SELLERS: Seriously.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: What I think is going to happen tonight is, you're going to have these individuals like Hickenlooper, Bullock try to take on what they view to be the left, take on what they view to be...

BALDWIN: Center stage tonight.

SELLERS: Center stage. So they're going to go square in the face of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, Medicare for all, Green New Deal, et cetera.

BALDWIN: Yes. SELLERS: Hickenlooper telegraphed some of that. They're going to

talk about -- because the difference between Hickenlooper and Bullock and everyone else on stage is they can point to legislative accomplishments that they have had within their own state.

BALDWIN: They have run states.

SELLERS: Correct. And they can call those progressive accomplishments. And they're going to talk about the way they did that.

They're going to try to force themselves into the Bernie Sanders lane. Now, the problem with this theory is that their presidential campaign may literally only last two more hours, and those would be the two hours on stage tonight.

And so I think they're going to come out like Tyson. And Tyson used to come across the ring in the first 30 seconds and just throw haymaker after haymaker after haymaker. And I expect Bullock and Hickenlooper to do the same.

BALDWIN: Yes.

David Urban?

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

So I think one of the biggest -- the biggest things you can have here at this debate is not being noticed. Angela points out there are all these people on the stage. If you're not noticed, you fade away into anonymity after tonight.

RYE: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: You're gone.

URBAN: The second thing I'm looking for -- and we have talked about this a little bit -- here is, Rahm had this open letter, Rahm Emanuel had this open letter yesterday, offering a cautionary tale to folks who are running, saying, look, we should -- we should govern from the middle.

But there doesn't seem to be a lot of excitement for the middle. There's not a great deal of excitement for Joe Biden, even though his numbers are high. No one's excited to have Joe Biden on the ticket.

There's lots of excitement for people down ballot, people who aren't even polling very high, tons of energy, tons of excitement. And so how does that translate?

How do you grab that lightning in a bottle and transfer it to someone who's going to run in the fall? If Joe Biden's the nominee, I think a lot of people are going to be sitting home saying, well, that's not my guy. I can't really get fired up about that.

And so that's the challenge I think Democrats have. BALDWIN: Right, which is the huge quandary. Like, do you throw your support behind Joe Biden, who is more moderate, or are you more excited about -- she's been around for a while, but a fresher face like a like an Elizabeth Warren?

We have talked a lot in the last couple of days about the issue of race, right? And I heard you all this morning. I was glued to that panel this morning.

And one of the points you all were making on the issue of race as it may come up is, it's a random drawing, folks, and it just happened that tonight it's an all-white...

RYE: White night.

BALDWIN: It is, every single one.

RYE: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: And so if this issue comes up, how can these candidates authentically address this very serious issue of race without coming off as pandering?

RYE: You know what, Brooke? And this is going to sound like pandering, but this is true. And you know me well enough to know this to be true.

You are a great example for them. And what I mean by that is, there is not a single moment -- we were joking in makeup -- I was just going to say this, as I'm very transparent. I was like, Brooke is honorary. She has a card.

And I'm just saying.

(LAUGHTER)

[15:10:01]

BALDWIN: I love you.

SELLERS: We're working on yours, David.

(LAUGHTER)

RYE: Yes. David has got a little bit further to go.

(LAUGHTER)

RYE: But what I mean by that is, there's something about allyship that comes from a place of, I may not know everything, but I'm standing with you, I see your pain, and I'm going to stand with you in, and I'm going to hear you out.

And you always -- like, on every show, Brooke, you have always been that way. And I think it's so important that we don't just have candidates like that, we have friends like that, we have bosses like that, we have peers like that, and we truly have neighbors and friends like that.

And so that's what I think they should be looking for. If they don't have folks like you on their campaign, they're in trouble.

URBAN: You can't learn -- you can't -- you have to have that in your DNA. You can't be coached to be authentic, right? That's something...

RYE: Well, you can't coach to be authentic, but you can learn about people's experience.

URBAN: Absolutely.

RYE: My mom says all the time, the greatest skill we can learn in life is perspective-taking. If I can't hear you, David Urban, I'm not going to ever understand your perspective.

SELLERS: And that is going to be the biggest test, because we somewhat know that -- we some -- I'm interested for the voices that are not -- that are not Beto, Pete, Elizabeth, and Bernie when it comes to these issues, because I think we have a problem in our party that is more widespread than people want to give it credit for.

RYE: Absolutely.

SELLERS: And I'm interested to hear the other six people on that stage have to talk about these issues of race, because I want to give Bullock a chance, right?

But the first way for him not to get that chance is to be somewhat indifferent to the issues that affect African-Americans. And I always tell people that one of the biggest ways that we can go about framing these issues that directly affect people of color is, we care more than just about criminal justice reform.

RYE: Yes.

SELLERS: People of color to make money too. Let's talk about...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Economy, health care.

SELLERS: Let's talk about these issues. But talk about these issues in the way that they're ingrained in these communities of color.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: So it's going to be a challenge for them all.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me actually, if I may, just hit pause, because I want to come with you, starting with you in the next segment.

URBAN: OK. BALDWIN: Let me sneak a quick break in. Stay with me.

They're all sticking around, much more to discuss, including President Trump claiming that he is the least racist person -- quote -- "anywhere in the world" and that African-Americans are calling the White House to thank him.

We're going to talk about that.

Plus, voters here in Michigan tell CNN that they are not so optimistic that a Democrat can beat President Trump in 2020. You will hear why.

And the man nominated to become the military's second highest officer accused of sexual assault -- how he defended himself today at his Senate confirmation hearings.

Don't move a muscle. You're watching CNN's special live coverage here from Detroit. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:22]

BALDWIN: We're back. I'm Brooke Baldwin live in Detroit.

Today, President Trump showed he is nowhere near showing any sign of regret for attacking Congressman Elijah Cummings and calling his town, his city of Baltimore a -- quote, unquote -- "disgusting rat and rodent infested mess."

In fact, President Trump accused others of being racist and declared this today:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am the least racist person there is anywhere in the world.

When con men, who I have known all -- almost all my business life, because I had to deal with them, unfortunately, in New York. But I got along with him, Al Sharpton. Now, he's a racist.

I got criminal justice reform done. President Obama couldn't get it done. No other president was able to get it done. What I have done for African-Americans, no president, I would say, has done.

The African-American people have been calling the White House. They have never been so happy as what a president has done, not only the lowest unemployment in history for African-Americans, not only opportunity zones for really a big -- the biggest beneficiary are the inner cities, and not only criminal justice reform, but they're so happy that I pointed out the corrupt politics of Baltimore.

It's filthy, dirty. It's so horrible, and they are happy as hell. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He says "What I have done for African-Americans, no other president has."

I would argue, check Abraham Lincoln, perhaps. I digress.

The president is quadrupling down, as CNN is learning some of his aides in the White House are uncomfortable over his attacks on minority members of Congress, including Chairman Cummings and the four congresswomen who are not white who he directed to go back to where they came from.

Moments ago, the president denied his attacks on Cummings were part of any sort of political strategy, saying that he was simply stating facts about the poor conditions in Baltimore.

And as all of this is happening, we have a new poll that shows that a majority of those surveyed believe President Trump is racist.

So, my commentators are back with me.

And I want to begin with you fine gentlemen on my right.

Bakari...

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: I always get the easiest questions.

SELLERS: Oh, I was looking at David.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Starting with you, you want to respond to the president? You guys have...

SELLERS: I mean, it's -- his statement was ridiculous and over the over the top.

I mean, he may be the least racist person in the world, if you take out birtherism, the Muslim ban, being sued by the Department of Labor for his conditions in New Jersey, for marking C for colored on individuals' housing applications, for the Central Park 5. So, I mean, there are a lot of things that go into this calculus.

I mean, I just think that -- I firmly believe that the president of the United States is racist.

[15:20:04]

However, I will say that he is a part of a larger issue in this country of race we got to deal with. And it's not just Donald Trump. He just happens to be the leader of the free world.

BALDWIN: David, how do you defend that? URBAN: So, listen, I'm not going to defend it, because you can't.

You can't defend some of these things, right?

So I think Elijah Cummings, the issue, attacking Baltimore, I think he got in over his head on this one. I think he was kind of tit for tat. My border sucks? Well, your city sucks. And then it devolved. And that's unfortunate.

I point out, listen, politics is about addition, not subtraction.

SELLERS: Not subtraction.

URBAN: OK, that's -- you want -- it's one plus one plus one. We want to include more people, not exclude people.

And the president's losing -- and I said this to whatever camera is on, like, tweet about the good things, right? Tweet about the positive things. Tweet about FIRST STEP Act, economic. He hits on it very briefly on the way the helicopter. But focus on the positive things we're doing for cities.

BALDWIN: But what about his own aides who are privately balking? Why are they not stopping him?

URBAN: Because you can't. You can't, unless you -- I don't know how you would stop the president.

I think that they -- people in the White...

BALDWIN: How about start with saying, Mr. President...

URBAN: I think -- I do believe people push back. In fact, I do believe they push back in the White House.

BALDWIN: Yes.

URBAN: And say, look, this is a -- focus on the positive things, right, things that unite us. Appeal to the better angels here, not the things that divide us.

He thinks at some level that it works.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: According to our own reporting, they don't want to go there.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Listen, and, at some level, it does work. People go there with him. It just -- he doesn't respond, right?

(CROSSTALK)

ROJAS: I think it's absolutely frightening that people within his own administration that are supposed to be giving him advice about how to not mess up on these things can't even do that. (CROSSTALK)

ROJAS: And you have the president of the United States abdicating the responsibility of representing every major city in America, not just singling out one.

And so I think it speaks to the fact that his leadership, again, is not pointing out the good things, because there's really not that much. We have 60 percent of Americans right now that still, if they had an $800 emergency bill, aren't going to be able to recover if that happened tomorrow.

You have one in five Americans right now that still don't have access to health care. You have trillions of both young and old that are still crippled by student debt.

And so if we're taking about an economy that is working for everybody, it's not. Who is it actually working for?

URBAN: Alexandra, look -- you look -- this is indisputable.

Real wage growth, real wage growth at the bottom level, production and nonsupervisory jobs, has grown steadily over the past year.

(CROSSTALK)

ROJAS: I think the Trump administration likes to tout the unemployment rate, but you talk about underemployment, especially right here.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: That's real wage growth.

(CROSSTALK)

ROJAS: Within my lifetime, lots of people have not seen wages increase all that much over the past 20 to 30 years.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: I'm talking facts. These are facts.

(CROSSTALK)

ROJAS: I'm also talking about facts as well.

RYE: You also -- also regularly take credit for economic accomplishments and gains that should be given to the Obama administration, number one.

Number two, I think an issue here is, Donald Trump's racism, the fact that he's talking about the African-Americans are calling the White House proud, I don't know who is acting as if they're African- American. Perhaps -- perhaps maybe Russia again, but it's certainly not any African-American calling the president, telling him thank you, when he is adding insult to injury to someone who has done so much for the black community.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: I would just say this.

I would think that you would be the first person to point out that African-Americans are not monolithic in their beliefs.

RYE: I understand that.

But I'm also going to be the first black person today to tell you that there -- the African-Americans are not calling the White House to thank Donald Trump for calling out corruption in Baltimore, when he regularly is assaulting and insulting members of Congress and every black person in a position of power.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Bakari, are you unblocked you yet? Did he unblock you yet on Twitter?

SELLERS: No, I'm still blocked. I have been blocked for a few years.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Bakari.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: OK. I mean, come on.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: I haven't blocked him.

SELLERS: But I do have to say that I have to give David some credit, because David at least stepping out here and saying that this was wrong is showing more courage than the elected Republicans that we have.

BALDWIN: Yes.

RYE: Sure. It's a low bar.

SELLERS: And having the audacity to say -- I get that, but I'm -- you have got to give credit at some point.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Thank you, David.

(CROSSTALK) URBAN: We have a positive record to run on.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Hold on one second, David, because what I'm saying is that, while you have individuals like a Lindsey Graham, while you have other individuals who are complicit, and not even being willing to step up and say, this is wrong, I mean, that is...

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: I'm sorry, Alexandra, just really quick, and then I'm taxiing you in.

It's hard for me to give credit to someone for saying this is wrong, when nobody will say it's wrong enough for him to go. It's an abuse of power. It is substantially wrong.

It is -- he is abusing the office, and he is using his platform to bully people who have fought to make this country better. So I can't give you credit for saying something is wrong, when you're not willing to go to get to the next step.

BALDWIN: You get the last word.

ROJAS: Yes.

And I would just say that the reason why there's a healthy tension, I think, happening right now, because the reality is, is that people are still hurting.

And I think part of the reason why we lost the presidency is because we didn't have a nominee that spoke to the issues of transformative change for real working people.

And so if we just dismiss and say, hey, the economy is still great, health care is great, we talk about everything is fine right now, that is dismissing the very real problems of the 60 percent of Americans that I pointed out that, literally, if they had an $800 emergency room bill tomorrow, they would be out on the street.

[15:25:03]

That is a problem of our economy that extended long before Donald Trump, extended long before Barack Obama. And, as a Democratic Party, we have got a lot to do to fix it.

BALDWIN: All right, you all, thank you very much. Appreciate every single one of you.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Thanks for having us.

BALDWIN: Coming on next here, a surprising result when CNN sat down with a group of Democratic voters here in Michigan. Watch this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: How many of you -- show of hands -- are optimistic that a Democrat will win in 2020?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just one hand. You will hear them explain why to our friend Alisyn Camerota and what they're looking for in a candidate just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]