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Sanders & Warren Clash with Moderates at CNN Debate; Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D), Presidential Candidate is Interviewed About His Policies. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 31, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Let's just stay up for the right policy, go out there and defend it.

[07:00:11] JOHN DELANEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Democrats win when we run on real solutions, not impossible promises.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to have a campaign of energy, excitement, and vision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Warren and Sanders decided not to go after each other. It's not going to last.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are not trying to take away health care from anyone. That's what the Republicans are trying to do.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: She was chewing up and spitting people out. That's what people are looking for with Donald Trump.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. John and I are live in Detroit, where we are getting ready for the second CNN Democratic debate. It's half-time, as you point out.

And on night one, it was progressives versus moderates, and there was no lack of energy on the stage last night. The candidates offered distinct approaches for America, while wrestling with how to defeat President Trump.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders were challenged by some of the moderates on their Medicare-for-all plan and whether it is best for all.

BERMAN: All in all, the debate was chock-full of policy, chock-full of substance and a really interesting discussion, I think, on so many of the important issues. Some of the candidates who were on that stage, they won't make it to

the next debate. So it was really make or break for them. We will speak to South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg in just a few moments.

So what does last night mean for tonight's face-off when we see a rematch of former Vice President Joe Biden and Senator Kamala Harris? Will the candidates be able to keep up with the blistering pace we saw last night?

Let's go to the debate stage, sort of the field itself. CNN's Athena Jones on the 50-yard line with the highlights of the debate last night -- Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Last night we saw the most progressive candidates, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, fending off attacks on their policy from the more moderate candidates while avoiding clashing with each other.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): The ideological divides within the Democratic Party on full display last night.

STEVE BULLOCK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Folks seem more concerned about scoring points or outdoing each other with wish list economics.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to hear a lot of promises up here.

DELANEY: We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us with his -- with bad policies like Medicare- for-all, free everything, and impossible promises that will turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you say to Congressman Delaney?

SANDERS: You're wrong.

JONES: The moderates clashing with Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, questioning their electability with their progressive agendas and slamming their key domestic proposal, Medicare-for-all.

JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm saying the policies of this notion that you're going to take private insurance away from 180 million Americans who many of them don't want to give it. Many of them do want to get rid of it, but some don't. That is a disaster at the ballot box. You might as well FedEx the election to Donald Trump.

SANDERS: Well, the truth is that every credible poll that I have seen has me beating Donald Trump.

JONES: Sanders standing by his plan. SANDERS: They will be better, because Medicare-for-all is

comprehensive. It covers all healthcare needs for senior citizens. It will finally include dental care, hearing aids, and eyeglasses. Second of all --

RYAN: But you don't know that, Bernie.

TAPPER: We'll come to you in a second, Congressman.

SANDERS: I do. I wrote the damn bill.

JONES: Instead of attacking each other, Sanders and Warren appeared united in defending their agendas.

DELANEY: So I think Democrats win when we run on real solutions, not impossible promises. When we run on things that are workable, not fairy-tale economics.

WARREN: You know, I don't understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for.

SANDERS: To win this election and to defeat Donald Trump, which by the way, in my view, is not going to be easy, we need to have a campaign of energy and excitement and of vision.

I get a little bit tired of Democrats afraid of big ideas. Republicans are not afraid of big ideas.

JONES: Other candidates, like Mayor Pete Buttigieg, saying the focus should stay on defeating President Trump instead of taking down fellow Democrats.

BUTTIGIEG: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if -- if it's true that, if we embrace a far-left agenda, they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it.

JONES: Warren blasting Trump when questioned about white supremacy fueling domestic terrorism in the wake of the latest mass shooting in California.

WARREN: Call out white supremacy for what it is: domestic terrorism. And it poses a threat to the United States of America. We live in a country now where the president is advancing environmental racism, economic racism, criminal justice racism, health care racism.

[07:05:10] JONES: Beto O'Rourke highlighting his call for a new Voting Rights Act to address systemic racism.

BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The legacy of slavery and segregation and Jim Crow and suppression is alive and well in every aspect of the economy and in the country.

JONES: Political outsider author Marianne Williamson also issuing a warning to more seasoned candidates.

MARIANNE WILLIAMSON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire conversation that we're having here tonight, if you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I'm afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now, tonight another ten candidates will be duking it out. Frontrunner Joe Biden will be at center stage, and he'll likely be a huge target for folks like Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, who will be on either side of him.

He said he's going to be more aggressive in fighting back. So we'll be watching closely to see not only how well he defends himself, but also whether he's able to make a compelling, affirmative argument for his candidacy and to be a bigger, more memorable presence on the stage -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Athena Jones, we of course, will be watching very closely tonight. Thank you so much.

I also have to say, I've never watched a debate wrap-up piece with one of the candidates who was in the debate.

Joining us now is South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg who's been with us on the set watching that. It was fascinating to see. And let me just get this out there. You said one of the most difficult things was avoiding Bernie Sanders' hand when he was --?

BUTTIGIEG: They set those podiums up very close to each other. I was a little bit in the danger zone there, but --

BERMAN: I'm glad you're safe this morning, Mayor. Listen, you said it's time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say.

BUTTIGIEG: That's right.

BERMAN: A lot of the coverage this morning has been framing this as a discussion between the progressives and the pragmatists, what will sell in the general election. Why does this discussion concern you?

BUTTIGIEG: Because for as long as I've been alive, I've watched Democrats organize ourselves according to what the Republicans are doing or what the Republicans are saying. I think the time has come for us to organize around what we think is right.

Look, the Republicans are going to do the same thing, no matter what. They're going to have the same talking points. They're going to call us socialists. They're going to say we're for open borders. This is what we do.

We could copy and paste the Republican platform, make it our own, and they would still say that. So I think we need to move on from obsessing over what the Republicans are going to say and just defend good policies.

And I do think there was a chance to do that last night. It was a substantive debate, and we were able to talk about the urgency of the moment we're in. At least that was my focus.

I still worry that everybody's focused on where to put everyone's dot on this left to center to right spectrum. Forgetting how many voters don't think of the electorate or don't think of the election that way. I mean, where I come from, you've got a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump and Barack Obama. And Mike Pence for governor, and me for mayor. So there's more going on here than people just siding up -- sizing up whether we're too moderate or whether we're too liberal.

BERMAN: So part of that argument you say we need to figure out how to do what's right on health care, which was a very long, deep discussion last night. You think what's right is very different. I think substantively different than what Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren think is right at this point.

You want to create a public option as part of your health care plan, but you're not for a Medicare-for-all that would do away with private insurance. So your plan is what you think is right. Does that mean what they are proposing in your mind is wrong?

BUTTIGIEG: Naturally, I think my proposal is better, because it allows Americans to make the decision for themselves.

By the way, I still think that most Americans will prefer the Medicare-style option. If we get it right, if people like me are right that the corporate options have let us down, then it actually becomes the transition pathway that gets you to Medicare-for-all.

I just think anyone in politics who allows the words Medicare-for-all to escape our lips has a responsibility to explain how we're supposed to get from point "A" to point "B" without kicking millions of people off of their health care or, for that matter, kicking millions of Americans out of their jobs in the health care industry.

There is a transition. And we've got to think about how that transition ought to work. Even as we move to provide universal health care, which we can and must do. Because we're the only developed country that puts up with not having it today.

CAMEROTA: One of the things that I really appreciated last night was, because it was so substantive, it allows me this morning to do more of the horse race and be more superficial. What grade do you give yourself for last night?

BUTTIGIEG: I don't think it's a good idea to grade yourself. I felt like we had a fantastic debate. It was great, because I had the chance to lay out the case for my candidacy, which is not just about ideology. It's about the urgency of the moment.

Look, we are running out of time. We have got -- scientists tell us we've got less than 12 years before we're at the catastrophe point on climate. The decisions we're making in 2020 are going to set up whether we even make it as a country in 2030, '40, and '50. And I appreciated the opportunity to lay out the stakes and talk about why we can't just recycle the same debate we've been having for the last 20 years. We've got to break through and do something different.

[07:10:07] CAMEROTA: You obviously have a challenge in the polls with African-American voters. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. Do you think that you were able to move the needle somehow last night?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I'm glad there was a chance to describe the Douglas plan, what we're seeking to do there. Because when we have the chance to lay that out in front of voters, we're getting a great response.

This is about a comprehensive answer to systemic racism in this country. It's everything from making sure that the criminal justice reform -- criminal justice system actually serves up justice to setting up to 25 percent as a goal for federal government contracting minority-owned businesses. Tearing down barriers to minority entrepreneurs. Looking at housing, looking at health care.

You know, right now in America, a black patient is less likely to have their reports of pain taken seriously at the hospital than a white patient. It's one of the reasons why we have higher maternal mortality.

We can't take one piece of this. We've got to look at the whole thing: employment, housing, education. It's why we're supporting HBCUs in our plan. And whenever we get the chance to talk about this bold vision, the most comprehensive vision, I believe of any candidate, talking about systemic racism, we get a fantastic response. My obligation, my responsibility is to go out there, explain it, and sell it. And whenever we get the chance to do it, we find it helps us grow and build our support among African-American voters.

But also, frankly, this shouldn't just be a specialty thing for black voters. White America needs to have a conversation about systemic racism right now. Because it's dragging this entire country down.

BERMAN: You talked about race, and you're talking about racism. And you last night, as you've been saying, suggest there's naked racism inside the White House. I want to play that sound from you and ask you about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUTTIGIEG: Today, they are supporting naked racism in the White House or at best silent about it. And if you are watching this at home and you are a Republican member of Congress, consider the fact that when the sun sets on your career, and they are writing your story, of all the good and bad things you did in your life, the thing you will be remembered for is, whether in this moment with this president, you found the courage to stand up to him or you continued to put party over country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Are you suggesting that Republicans in Congress around the country are enabling racism?

BUTTIGIEG: Absolutely. They're enabling all of the wrongdoing that this president has brought with him, from inaction on Russian interference to naked racism.

Look, 20 years ago, when David Duke, the Klan leader, ran for governor as Republican, or tried to in Louisiana, the Republican Party was horrified. They ran away from him as fast as you can go.

Now you see racism emanating from the White House, and Republicans are either supportive or they are silent. And the thing that's really important to understand right now is they know better. Deep down -- it's one thing when we have a good faith disagreement over what the right thing to do is.

When it comes to this president, they know better. He is betraying not just my values but his own party's values. They know it. They are silent, because they are afraid.

America needs them to summon the courage to do the right thing. And I've come to believe the only way that will happen is for them to be completely defeated at the ballot box. To have not only Trump but Trumpism and its supporters rejected so resoundingly in 2020. And congressional Senate races, as well as the White House, that there is some soul searching on the Republican side of the aisle about how they can be a healthy, responsible political party in this country.

CAMEROTA: I have a totally cosmetic, superficial question for you. Did you have a smudge on your forehead --

BUTTIGIEG: Literally cosmetic.

CAMEROTA: -- last night, and what was that?

BUTTIGIEG: All right. So our best guess is that -- there were these little kind of gnats around.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BUTTIGIEG: Maybe I smushed one, and it got on my forehead. I don't know. I didn't know about it until after. That's the thing about having something on your forehead. But hopefully, it didn't distract from the message --

BERMAN: No.

BUTTIGIEG: -- about what's at stake in this election.

CAMEROTA: Not at all. And it's also very cool that you killed a gnat on your way out. I think that set the tone.

BERMAN: Well, it shows lightning-quick reflexes.

BUTTIGIEG: Well, you want to show you can do many things at once in this election.

BERMAN: I think the technical term for what it was, was schmutz.

My producer's going to kill me. In 25 seconds or less, where do you want to be one month from now in this race?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, we want to continue to consolidate our position among the leading candidates and have that ground game building out.

Look, you know, a lot of what people see is things like the debates. You know, your television appearances, your fundraising numbers. But we're also entering the phase where what really matters is your ability to organize.

We have a new relational organizing model. I'm very excited about it. I think it's what's going to bring us to victory going into 2020. We've got 57 organizers on the ground in Iowa. We're hiring right and left in all of the early states.

And so where I want to be a month from now is doing as well and growing when it comes to what everybody sees, but also under the hood. That kind of unglamorous blocking and tackling work, seeing that organization really gel in the early states.

CAMEROTA: Mayor Pete Buttigieg, great to have you here with us. Thanks so much. We'll be following what happens next.

[07:15:03] BERMAN: Get some sleep.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

All right. Beto O'Rourke drew a clear line between himself and the more progressive candidates over border security. Here's a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'ROURKE: I expect that people who come here follow our laws, and we reserve the right to criminally prosecute them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. What does he think of his performance last night? We talk to him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: OK. NEW DAY is live in Detroit, where last night we watched Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders clash with their more moderate rivals. Elizabeth Warren laid out a series of progressive proposals and criticized her opponents for not thinking bigger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: I don't understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: All right. Who were the winners? Who were the losers?

Joining us now is CNN commentator Bakari Sellers. He has endorsed Kamala Harris for president. CNN political commentator Angela Rye; CNN political commentator Andrew Gillum; and CNN political analyst April Ryan, back by popular demand.

[07:20:09] APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey!

CAMEROTA: Your panel was so hot yesterday.

A. RYAN: We try. We try.

CAMEROTA: Grand performance.

ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Debauchery.

A. RYAN: No.

CAMEROTA: It was mildly debauched. But -- but Angela, you never pull punches. Who won last night?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Elizabeth Warren.

GILLUM: Amen.

RYE: Absolutely no question. Elizabeth Warren was a very strong contender last night. I was pleasantly surprised. She always comes off very wonkish to me. And for a good reason, she's brilliant. But last night, she killed it. She killed it.

GILLUM: I couldn't agree more. I thought she was -- I loved the personal narrative as the people she's encountered along the trail. It shows she's listening. She's projecting that back on folks. And I think she's aware, as Angela mentions, of this reputation of being slightly wonky. She's gone out of her way to be as accessible in the way that she's describing the complexity of these proposals as she possibly can.

CAMEROTA: Though it was hard for her to spin the yarn in the amount of time she had.

GILLUM: It was.

CAMEROTA: She had to stop in the middle of the one.

GILLUM: Which was an issue for a number of people.

A. RYAN: For everybody.

I love CNN. It was tough to get through that from a timing standpoint.

But I've also got to give honorable mention to Pete Buttigieg. I know y'all just had him on. But the brother came ready, prepared to deliver. And I'm going to be probably the only person up here that may say

this. I enjoyed Marianne Williamson. I thought --

RYE: No, you're not. You're not the only one. We're black.

I'll take 40 acres and two mules, Marianne. Very good.

A. RYAN: No, no, no, no. I'll take a hoes on the Potomac.

RYE: The math doesn't add up. The math doesn't add up. We're going to calculate something.

BERMAN: Any dissenting opinion, that Elizabeth Warren won? Go ahead.

A. RYAN: Yes, Angela. OK. So I believe Elizabeth Warren says, "I have a plan for this. I have a plan for this." She did have a plan, but she laid back a little bit too much in the beginning.

Bernie Sanders came to win. He came out there, and that was his fight, I believe, against Elizabeth Warren. Yes, they were friends but he dominated. But I did like Elizabeth Warren when she talked about HBCUs. She was very clear about adding money for HBCUs.

But my MVP, as we go back to channeling a course of miracles --

RYE: How do you get two winners?

RYAN: I have -- I have a win, and I have an MVP. Because I'm April Ryan.

RYE: OK. OK! All right.

RYAN: My MVP was Marianne Williamson. She came to play. She did not do the girlfriend shtick that we thought she was going to do. She came with issues. She came with answers. She became inspirational and aspirational. And she put on the table General Sherman's --

RYE: Special Field Order No. 50.

A. RYAN: Yes. Order No. 50, talking -- that Abraham Lincoln signed off on. But it never was kept. The promise was never kept. Forty acres and a mule. And what is the calculation today, Angela?

RYE: I don't know, but her math was off. So for her to say do the math and then she studied the wrong math, you had me up until the math.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: She -- Marianne Williamson -- first of all, I think Elizabeth Warren won the debate. I think Bernie Sanders -- and everyone who knows me knows that I'm not a big Bernie Sanders fan. Bernie Sanders came last night, and he did extremely well. He made his point. I always think Bernie Sanders runs into the same ceiling, which is race. He did that again last night. I mean, he has trouble answering questions about race. He did that again last night. Marianne Williamson gave the most comprehensive answer on race last night. I don't know a lot about her. So I know that whenever we compliment her on Twitter, people are like, "Oh, my gosh, she did this in 1982." And I'm like, I wasn't even born yet.

RYE: Don't do that today.

SELLER: I'm channeling my inner Pete Buttigieg.

RYE: Yes, you definitely are. When they passed that law, I was in my mama's --

SELLERS: I just -- that is -- that is what it was. And so when Marianne was speaking, we have a friend named Natasha Brown from Black Voters Matter, and they're doing real work in the communities. And she always comes out, and she says the only thing we did right was the day we learned to fight. Keep your eyes on the prize. Hold on.

GILLUM: Hold on.

SELLERS: And Marianne Williamson, when you -- when she was giving that forceful rebuke of the racism we see, gave us that spirit of keeping your eyes on the prize, hold on.

The antithesis to that was the economic anxiety answer of Amy Klobuchar. So when tonight's -- we'll get there. You've got to be able to challenge that inner keep your eyes on the prize, hold on. And I got that from Marianne.

A. RYAN: Hold on just a little while longer.

SELLERS: And Beto -- and Beto stuck his toe in there. I can't say that he was not there. And he rose to that level on that moment.

GILLUM: She was sermonesque without religiosity. I think that's what a lot of people really --

RYE: She said toxicity.

GILLUM: -- by her is because she was very distinguished on that stage, by comparison to whoever else, you know, she was standing next to, I think largely because she has the ability, probably because of her background and past, to cut through to something your nerve, your heart, your sinew that allows you to hear --

RYE: I love you guys. I have to say one thing. Marianne Williamson's race reparations answer was strong. The rest of her answers were all over the place. And I know you all said it's because she didn't get enough time.

[07:25:08] GILLUM: She didn't get enough time.

RYE: But you just can't be like, OK, well, let's talk about national security, and she's on education and welfare.

GILLUM: True. RYE: I mean, it's like all over the place.

GILLUM: She's not going to -- she's not going to win.

RYE: No, I understand that. I want her to be over mindfulness and wellness.

GILLUM: But you know what? But she also needs the credibility for being more than just sort of this light and fluffy person.

RYE: No, that's right. That's right. That's right.

A. RYAN: But I want to go back to Beto real quick. Beto came out talking about voting rights, but he also talked about the issue of reparations. Beto, if you -- he went in the weeds, but people need to know what the weeds look like.

RYE: yes.

A. RYAN: The bottom line is what he is supporting with Sheila Jackson Lee is a bill that calls for a commission to study reparations.

RYE: And proposals.

A. RYAN: Right.

RYE: Because they added that this year. This used to be Congressman Conyers' bill that was introduced every Congress.

A. RYAN: But this does not offer direct -- it does not offer direct payment or it doesn't even talk about block payments. So right now, you have to be mindful and listen with a critical ear as to what's going on, because this is about a proposal to study and a commission. It's not necessarily giving reparations.

RYE: But if we -- if we call him out on that, we have to call Bernie Sanders out on once again putting forth Congressman Clyburn's 10-20-30 proposal. That proposal benefits more Republican rural districts than it does black folks. So Bernie Sanders also has to be accountable for that.

BERMAN: Let me turn to tonight if I can. What are you all looking for tonight?

A. RYAN: Fight.

RYE: No. 1, last night I started calling last night's debate white night. It was the least diverse of the panels. And I think that tonight we have a debate stage that looks very much like the face of America.

I think that there's going to be a whole lot of shade throwing, a whole lot of clap-backs, a lot of records being challenged. I think particularly when you consider Kamala Harris knows last time her performance helped her to rise in the polls, and she slipped in the polls. So she's got to gain some of that momentum back. The rest of the folks other than -- I think actually Julian Castro, as

well, is the only Latino man running for president. I think it also has a really big opportunity to show people who he is and what he stands for.

You know, I've talked to Julian Castro this week. He's going to do the clapback. You know, he said --

RYE: That's a back-hand.

A. RYAN: I know. I said, "Are you going to do the clapback?"

I said -- I was like no, that's not a clapback. But he says he's going to come strong.

I also spoke with Joe Biden at the NAACP. And he really is internalizing this fight with Kamala Harris. And he is like, you know, you know my heart. You know my heart. And I just stood there and listened to him. But he says he's going to come back strong.

Now, how strong? He has an albatross around his neck of Anita Hill. He's got to -- he's got to really figure out how to strategically go after a black woman without looking -- without bringing history back.

SELLERS: They have the Obama -- the Obama? Because Joe Biden -- I know. Thank you. That's what he wants to be called. Joe Biden since the last debate, they have made a litany of excuses for that performance. They weren't prepared.

A. RYAN: He was in shock.

SELLERS: They didn't think it was going to happen. Yesterday, I think the excuse that we heard on this set was that they didn't know how to punch back against a woman.

A. RYAN: He was in shock because Kamala was his friend. And he said to me -- this is what he said last week.

SELLERS: But they running for president.

RYAN: He was in shock, because that was a friendship.

RYE: You can't expect for your record not to be challenged in friendship. I hold y'all accountable.

SELLERS: But you -- but I will say that the beginning of this debate, there's going to be a test of every candidate's strength to withstand that rapid pace and dealing in those issues.

And I honestly think, at the beginning of the debate -- and I'll say this again, said it earlier -- that Kamala Harris is going to have a lot to prove on health care. Her -- her weakest point in this race has been health care. And she's going to have to stand in her answer, own her answer, and not have to clarify her answer.

A. RYAN: Her prosecutorial record is also on the line. (CROSSTALK)

A. RYAN: Her prosecutorial record, as well as with black men.

GILLUM: I still think, though, her highest -- the biggest -- Joe Biden has the most to gain or lose. And I'm not sure gaining is it. Rather stopping bleeding.

People need to know that he is to the task. That if he's challenged on his record, this whole "she's my friend and I didn't expect it to come" -- you're running for the United States of America.

And by the way, whoever the nominee is will be up against Donald Trump. He's nobody's friend. And you can imagine, he won't pull any punches.

And so it's my hope, and I'm not going to declare for anybody, but I want this for him to be his best, most optimal self tonight. Otherwise, I think people will start to defect, because they're going to see a chink in the armor.

BERMAN: All right, friends. I just have to say I think you guaranteed another appearance on our show.

A. RYAN: You need to bring us back all the time.

CAMEROTA: Be careful what you wish for.

A. RYAN: We want this.

SELLERS: You'll be here at 4 a.m. in the morning.

RYE: I know it.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, guys, very much.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, or next I should say, another of the candidates who was on that stage. Former Texas Congressman Beto O'Rourke, he is here with us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:00]