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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Democrats Prepare For Second CNN Presidential Debate Night; Recap Of First CNN Debate Night; Russian Instagram Star Found Dead; Newly Unearthed Audio Of Reagan's Racist Call With Nixon; Boris Johnson Visits N. Ireland Amid Brexit Divisions; Meghan Markle Edits September Issue Of British Vogue; Iconic Director And Huge Stars Making Film For Netflix. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 31, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:21] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, excitement builds ahead of night two of CNN's presidential debate. Frontrunner Joe Biden has a second chance to respond to a forceful Kamala
Then, the sixth wife of Dubai's billionaire ruler was in a U.K. court today, seeking a protection order to prevent one of her children from being
forced into marriage.
And wait until you hear the offensive language from an icon of Republican presidential history. We have newly unearthed audio of Ronald Reagan's
racist conversation with Richard Nixon.
First -- but first, as I mentioned, breaking news right now out of Washington. We're waiting to hear from the U.S. Federal Reserve any minute
now. The Fed is widely expected to announce that it is cutting interest rates for the first time since the big financial crisis more than a decade
Stay with us. We will have the Fed's decision the moment we hear anything. Clare Sebastian joins me (INAUDIBLE) --
-- Eastern time. And usually, the Fed is on time when it comes to rate decisions. What are you hearing?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hala, just waiting to verify that. But we are expecting the Fed to cut by a quarter percentage point.
That's what the market has been pricing in for the last few months.
And a quarter percentage point cut, really, is an insurance policy, Hala. Because although this is the first time they will have cut in a decade,
this is very different from the end of 2008. The economy is growing pretty solidly, unemployment is at generational lows, consumer spending is pretty
The point of this is to stave off any further slowdown. We are seeing signs, the momentum might be slowing. Things like business investment,
manufacturing. There's risks from slowing growth abroad, there's risks from the U.S.-China trade war, even things like Brexit.
All of that, the Fed is watching. They want to try to avoid getting deeper into a slowdown. So this, a vaccine for the economy rather than medicine
once the illness has already hit, if you will.
GORANI: All right. We will check in with you later. And Richard Quest will be joining us as well for more on this anticipated rate cut, big
questions out there about whether or not the U.S. president, who's been very critical of the Federal Reserve chairman, is seen as having put
pressure on what is supposed to be an independent central bank. We'll get to that a little bit later.
Now, just six hours and counting. Anticipation is building for round two of that Democratic presidential debate, hosted by CNN. The stage is set in
Detroit, Michigan, where no doubt, frontrunner Joe Biden will come under attack on multiple fronts, as nine other candidates hope to dent his lead
in the polls. This is a live image coming to us from Detroit.
Many people are waiting to see the rematch between Biden and Senator Kamala Harris in particular, after her attacks in a previous debate left him
politically bruised. Let's go to CNN's Kyung Lah. She's at the debate venue for a preview of tonight's match-ups and more. Kyung?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, what we're seeing this morning, are the debate walk-throughs. The candidates, showing up one
by one. And they're getting positioned behind their podiums, where they're going to be this evening.
We've already seen Washington Governor Jay Inslee come through. We've seen Kamala Harris come through and (INAUDIBLE) on the stage right now -- I
don't know if we have that live picture available to us, but -- she is at her position, her podium position, she's talking to aides.
This is where she will be. She will not be in the center, but she will be slightly off to stage left, it's reflecting her position in the current
polls and the number of donors she's had.
She is someone who has already signaled that tonight, she will be bringing up an issue that many people, many analysts expected would be -- play a
much bigger role in her campaign, that she is a feminist. Leaning into women's issues. So that is what we are expecting to hear from her.
Now, earlier, I just mentioned that Kamala Harris had been on stage, the senator from California. She is widely anticipated to pick up where they
left off, the rematch between her and the former vice president, former Vice President Joe Biden.
What does the campaign have planned? I'm in touch with the campaign daily, Hala. I can tell you that they have been extraordinarily silent. So we
don't exactly know. Nothing's being telegraphed.
What we do know is that the former vice president has said to his aides, who have then in turn spoken with press, that he plans on not being so
polite. He knows he did not do a great job, the first debate. He plans on being much more aggressive. He's going to have to fend off attacks not
just from Harris, but to the other person of color to his left or right, and that would be Cory Booker.
[14:05:04] So the former vice president, certainly prepared for what could be a very challenging night ahead of him as far as the attacks coming from
either side -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Kyung Lah in Detroit.
As we were mentioning at the top of the program, we were expecting the Federal Reserve to announce a quarter-point rate cut, and that is exactly
what the Federal Reserve has announced, down to 2.25 percent, citing essentially more challenging global economic conditions. We'll have more
with Richard Quest, a little bit later in the program, on what this means.
In the first debate, a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party was on display. Moderates attacked high-profile progressives as radicals who
couldn't win a general election. But as Athena Jones reports, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren fired right back and stood their ground.
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The ideological divides within the Democratic Party, on full display last night.
STEVE BULLOCK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Folks seem more concerned about scoring points or outdoing each other with wish-list economics.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to hear a lot of promises up here.
JOHN DELANEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us, which is with bad
policies like Medicare for all, free everything and impossible promises that will turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: What do you say to Congressman Delaney?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're wrong.
JONES (voice-over): The moderates, clashing with Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, questioning their electability with their progressive
agendas, and slamming their key domestic proposal, Medicare for all.
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm saying the policies of this notion that you're going to take private insurance away from 180
million Americans who, many of them, don't want to give it -- many of them do want to get rid of it, but some don't. That is a disaster at the ballot
box. You might as well FedEx the election to Donald Trump.
SANDERS: Well, the truth is that every credible poll that I have seen has me beating Donald Trump.
JONES (voice-over): Sanders, standing by his plan.
SANDERS: They will be better because Medicare for all is comprehensive, it covers all health care needs. For senior citizens, it will finally include
dental care, hearing aids and eyeglasses.
TIM RYAN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But you don't know --
SANDERS: Second of all --
RYAN: You don't know that, Bernie.
SANDERS: -- second of all --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll come to you in a second, Congressman.
SANDERS: I do know. I wrote the damn bill.
JONES (voice-over): Instead of attacking each other, Sanders and Warren appeared united in defending their agendas.
DELANEY; So I think Democrats win when we run on real solutions, not impossible promises. When we run on things that are workable, not fairy
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I don't understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of
the United States, just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for.
SANDERS: To win this election and to defeat Donald Trump -- which, by the way, in my view, is not going to be easy -- we need to have a campaign of
energy and excitement and of vision.
I get a little bit tired of Democrats, afraid of big ideas. Republicans are not afraid of big ideas.
JONES (voice-over): Other candidates like Mayor Pete Buttigieg, saying the focus should stay on defeating President Trump instead of taking down
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your response?
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), SOUTH BEND, INDIANA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if --
-- if it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda, they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda,
you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out
there and defend it.
JONES (voice-over): Warren, blasting Trump when questioned about white supremacy fueling domestic terrorism in the wake of the latest mass
shooting in California.
WARREN: Call out white supremacy for what it is, domestic terrorism. And it poses a threat to the United States of America.
We live in a country now where the president is advancing environmental racism, economic racism, criminal justice racism, health care racism.
JONES (voice-over): Beto O'Rourke, highlighting his call for a new voting rights act to address systemic racism.
BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The legacy of slavery and segregation and Jim Crow and suppression is alive and well in every aspect
of the economy and in the country.
JONES (voice-over): Political outsider, author Marianne Williamson, also issuing a warning to more seasoned candidates.
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire conversation that we're having here tonight, if you think any of this wonkiness is going
to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I'm afraid that the
Democrats are going to see some very dark days.
GORANI: All right. Athena Jones' reporting. We'll be speaking to a Democratic strategist later in the program, and do not miss round two of
the Democratic debate, live on CNN. Coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time in the United States, and you can see Encore presentations at 7:00
a.m. London time, 2:00 p.m. in Hong Kong on Thursday, only on CNN.
Still to come tonight, we are live in Italy as police scour the hotel room of two suspects in the murder of an Italian police officer. CNN hears from
the father of one of the accused, next.
[14:09:58] Plus, a Russian Instagram star found murdered in Moscow. The strange circumstances of that case, just ahead.
GORANI: Welcome back. Part two of the Democratic presidential debate is just a few hours away. As for what happened yesterday, my next guest says
he believes Elizabeth Warren was last night's, quote, "breakout star." CNN Political Contributor, Paul Begala joins me live from Detroit. He's a
Democratic strategist and was an advisor to former President Bill Clinton.
So, Paul, in what way was Elizabeth Warren, in your view, the breakout star yesterday?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, she combined substance and style. She had the sizzle that a lot of Democrats want. The progressive
base of the party is searching for a candidate, and she was standing next to Bernie Sanders. And I thought Bernie was quite good, but I thought she
overshadowed him and really electrified folks.
Now, as a strategist, I'm worried that some of that won't sell, running against Donald Trump, but for right now in the primary, I thought she did
her job very well.
GORANI: Why do you think some of it won't sell in a general election against Trump?
BEGALA: Well, she's running in America, not Massachusetts. And the rest of my country is pretty -- pretty (ph) more moderate than Massachusetts is.
And I worry. It's one of the rules in politics, is don't say something in the primary that's going to make it impossible for you to win the general
And I'm terribly worried that telling people, 180 million Americans, that they will no longer have the health insurance that they've earned at their
job, "But we're going to give you something better" -- actually believe it'd be better -- but that's a big leap of faith for 180 million Americans
to take. And I think it could be a deal-breaker, candidly, against Trump in the 2020 election.
GORANI: But the centrists had a go at Trump in 2016, with Hillary Clinton. They lost. Is it time to go to another -- another portion, another part of
the Democratic Party, and a more progressive base? Is the time now, to do that?
BEGALA: That may be. It's not what the voters told us in 2018. In 2018, the Democrats did something remarkable. They won the biggest landslide
that they've won since Watergate, and they won it by doing two things. They recruited the most diverse field of candidates they've ever had: more
women, more people of color, Native Americans, African-Americans. And those candidates were very moderate.
And they ran in Republican districts, districts Trump won, and they reclaimed them back for the Democrats. I'm standing here in Michigan, a
state that Hillary lost to Trump, that Democrats won the governorship, Senate race and picked up a number of seats in the legislature. So that's,
I think, a smarter strategy, is to actually convert people who had been for Trump, and convert states that had been for Trump, to the Democratic side.
GORANI: I found interesting, that there were very few foreign policy, national security questions. And candidates really didn't bring those up.
Now, as we're CNN International and people are very interested in what President Trump has to say about Iran, China and other big foreign policy
issues, why is that not playing highly in the debates at this stage?
[14:15:07] BEGALA: I think that's a great point, and it's fascinating. You know, time was, Barack Obama defeated Hillary Clinton on foreign
policy. Barack -- Senator -- President Obama, then Senator -- had opposed the war in Iraq, Hillary had supported it and that national security issue
divided the Democratic Party and it's why I think Obama beat Clinton in that primary.
There's not the same overarching foreign policy and national security issues now. They're terribly important, but it doesn't cleave the party in
the same way.
Pete Buttigieg, a veteran himself of military service, talked about bringing troops home from Afghanistan. We know that the North Koreans have
been firing test missiles.
I do wish the Democrats had had more of that. They only had two and a half hours, but --
BEGALA: -- 20 (ph) candidates, and they did do a very, very deep dive into health care, which is a number one issue for Democrats.
GORANI: So if you think Elizabeth Warren might not play well in a general election, who among the 20 do you think would?
BEGALA: I honestly don't have a preference. I really don't. And Senator Warren might be -- I could be completely wrong. She may be terrific. I
just -- right now, I'm a undecided Democrat, I guess, just like most Democrats. And so I actually want (ph) to (ph) put (ph) them (ph) on (ph)
a (ph) track (ph) --
GORANI: What about Kamala Harris?
BEGALA: -- and see how they run.
I thought she was terrific in the last debate. I thought she won the last debate. Now, she's going to stand right next to Joe Biden tonight, and
we'll see if she can -- if she can do it twice. It's like after you -- after I have a fight with my wife, like a month later, I think of something
really clever to say, it doesn't usually work.
GORANI: Yes. Well, she, by the way, just had her walk-through, is what I'm being told. I didn't quite see it myself, but she had her walk-through
on the stage. And Joe Biden's still very much the clear frontrunner. Is this who the Democratic Party needs to be supporting at this stage? He is
BEGALA: Yes, he's got a commanding lead right now. But it's right now. I mean, we are so far from the first votes to be cast in Iowa that it's --
these early polls are almost useless. If I were a Biden advisor --
BEGALA: -- that's what I would tell him. I would say, "Mr. Vice President, a lead is not an egg. If you sit on it, it doesn't hatch.
You've got to push forward. You've got to be bold. You've got to take chances." And the question tonight is, you know, will Biden do that or
will he play not to lose.
GORANI: The biggest issue, you mentioned health care. Is that where Democrats are likely to make most headway do you think, in a general
BEGALA: I think health care was certainly the issue that got the Democrats the House of Representatives back. Nancy Pelosi did a terrific job, as I
said, of recruiting diverse and moderate candidates, and then focusing them all on health care.
And by the way, it wasn't a radical single payer proposal. It was just, "We'll reduce the cost of your prescription drugs a little bit, we'll make
it easier for you to pay for your premiums." I think that that is the number one issue for Democrats.
Now, if this were a Republican primary, I think they would all be talking about immigration. That's also a big issue in the Democratic Party. But I
think health care is the number one driver.
GORANI: Paul Begala, thanks very much. Always a pleasure having you on the program. Appreciate it.
BEGALA: Thanks, Hala (ph).
GORANI: Now, to Italy and the search for answers in that horrific killing of a police officer in Italy last week. Within the past few hours, police
forensics experts scoured the hotel room where the two suspects stayed. CNN's Melissa Bell is live in Rome, and she's following the investigation.
What are we hearing about what police officers found or what they're looking for in that hotel room?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been a day where, very much, the investigation has focused on that hotel, just down the street
from here, the very place where the Italian police officer was murdered in the early hours of Friday morning.
The question, Hala, of what happened in those crucial few minutes leading up to his confrontation with the American teens and the hours before then
is very much at the heart of the investigation. We've seen forensic teams go into that hotel and come out. We've also seen the lawyers of the two
Now, all that we know for the time being -- and I think it's really important to stress this -- we know from the Italian court documents, we
know from Italian prosecutors and we know from the investigating magistrates. We have yet to hear, really, about the substance of the case
and the allegations against them from the men's lawyers, from the men themselves and from their families, who have now gathered in Rome.
GORANI: And you, Melissa, I understand, spoke to the father of one of the accused?
BELL: That's right. I think that it's important also, Hala, to bear in mind that so far, what we've heard from the Italian authorities, once
again, is that one of the teens involved, one of these Americans is believed to have wielded the knife. He is the one that Italian prosecutors
believe killed that officer in the early hours of the morning.
It is to the father of the other American teen involved, the parents of Gabe Natale, that we spoke. We spoke to his father, who'd had a very
emotional meeting with his son this morning. He spoke to us exclusive afterwards, Hala, and this is what he had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[14:20:01] FABRIZIO NATALE, FATHER OF GABRIEL NATALE HJORTH (via telephone): Gabriel is just a teenager who, last year, started college,
hoping to become an architect. He's devastated by the carabinieri's death. And I, for one, as a father, painfully feel this family's grief.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BELL: There are so many emotions involved in this case, there are so many questions yet that remain about precisely what investigators have
discovered and how those two teens, who insist on their innocence -- and, again, we know that only from the court documents -- will be pleading their
For the time being, of course, we await to hear when and if charges will be brought. Italian law provides that they can take six months or even up to
a year to be brought. So these are two American teens who could be facing some time in detention -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Melissa Bell, live in Rome.
The sixth wife of Dubai's billionaire ruler is seeking an order to prevent the forced marriage of one of their children, and a non-molestation order
for herself. That's according to the British Press Association.
Princess Haya appeared in a London court earlier today, following weeks of media speculation about her whereabouts. A full hearing will take place in
November, also according to the Press Association.
Nina dos Santos has the latest from outside the High Court in London.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Princess Haya, the sixth wife of the rule of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed Al Maktoum, appeared for two days in a row
here, at the London Royal Courts of Justice, as part of a custody battle over the future of the two children that the couple share.
She apparently requested a forced marriage protection order for one of her children, to prevent them from being forced into wedlock without their
consent, as well as asking for both children to become wards of court. It was also reported that she requested a non-molestation order for herself.
This is the latest chapter in a long-running public separation between two individuals who both are royals by their own right. Princess Haya is the
daughter of the late King Hussein of Jordan, and the half-sister of the current king of that country.
Both of these two individuals also have ties to the British royal family, in particular through their shared passion for horses. Princess Haya was
Oxford-educated, went to private school in the U.K., it's a place she knows well. She's also an Olympic equestrian, having represented her country of
birth, Jordan, in the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games.
It's believed that the case is likely to rumble on until probably the autumn of the year. While attracting intense media interest, this case was
subject to hefty reporting restrictions, ones which Sheikh Mohammed initially requested to be even more stringent, a request that the judge at
the start of the hearings, denied.
Either way, Princess Haya is now the third female member of Sheikh Mohammed's royal household to have left or tried to leave. Nina dos
Santos, outside the Royal Courts of Justice in London.
GORANI: Thanks, Nina.
Moscow police have made an arrest in connection with the chilling murder of a Russian Instagram star. Her body was found in a suitcase in an apartment
building on Saturday. Obviously there are still many questions left unanswered. Nathan Hodge joins me now. He is our Moscow bureau chief.
What more do we know about this story, Nathan?
NATHAN HODGE, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Hala, Instagram's a very popular social media platform here in Russia. You can go into downtown
Russia -- downtown Moscow, and you can see young women with professional photographers, posing for their -- for their Instagram pages.
But Ekaterina Karaglanova (ph), who went under the Instagram handle Kati Loves Life, was a standout among Instagram users. At the time of her
death, she had over 80,000 followers, a figure that rose after the news became public of this gruesome murder.
Today, the authorities said that they had made an arrest in the case, but they did not name a suspect. They only just gave some very scant details.
We've been trying to get more clarity on what exactly happened.
But certainly, this has been a major shocker, given the popularity of this Instagram influencer, especially given, you know, the role that Instagram
plays in public life, here in Russia, being such a popular platform and one that people use sometimes as a way to make money, to gain popularity and
So certainly, this has grabbed all of the tabloid headlines here in Moscow. And it's been quite shocking because of the -- just the grizzly details of
the case, of the body being found stuffed in a suitcase -- Hala.
GORANI: And what do we know about her lifestyle? I mean, any relationships she may have had before? Do we have any idea what may have
led to such a sad ending for this young woman?
HODGE: Well, Hala, I think that if you take a look at someone's Instagram feeds, there's all kinds of room for speculation about what could have been
the motive, who were her friends and contacts, who was paying for her trips.
[14:25:07] You know, she shows a sort of kind of a Russian lifestyles of the rich and famous. I think her last post shows her vacationing on the
Greek island of Corfu with a glass of wine. Again, it's for this sort of very -- sort of showy kind of life for social media. But, again, details
are very scant here and there's only speculation -- Hala.
GORANI: Nathan Hodge, thanks very much, coming to us live from Moscow.
We are going to take a quick break on the program. When we come back, we're going to be talking once again about the U.S. economy, which is still
very much growing. But despite that, for the first time since the Great Recession, interest rates are being cut. More from the Federal Reserve,
Plus, newly discovered audio from 1971, and the legacies of two U.S. presidents. We'll play you part of a racist phone call between Ronald
Reagan and Richard Nixon, just recently uncovered. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Well, I want to go back to our story from the top of the show. As expected, the U.S. Federal Reserve cut interest rates for the first time in
more than a decade. The Fed chairman is scheduled to speak any moment about this decision.
Let's get more on why this is a big deal, and why it's happening at all. Let's go to CNN's Richard Quest in New York.
So, Richard, the economy is booming, unemployment is at record lows. And yet the Federal Reserve -- and inflation is not an issue in America right
now. But the Fed has decided to cut rates now. Why?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: According to the Federal Reserve -- and here's the statement -- "In light of the implications of
global developments," along with the -- "for the economic outlook, as well as muted inflation pressures."
What does that actually mean? It means they're worried about the slowdown in the European Union. They're worried about the trade tensions, "global
developments," that means that China-U.S. trade war.
We know that because Jerome Powell, the chairman, said that in his two days of testimony. Time and again, he said, "We are worried about the severity
of the effects of the trade war."
And as those like the ECB and the BOE -- Bank of England -- and the Bank of Japan, all look to perhaps cut rates further, Hala, the Fed is responding
to -- they're trying to get ahead of the curve here by removing (ph) rates so they are equal with others.
[14:29:55] GORANI: Well, as you know, the U.S. president has been very critical of Jerome Powell, the chairman, and the Federal Reserve as an
institution. And some of the concern has been that he's put so much pressure on the Federal Reserve that they're acting, as a result of that
pressure, and not because they have necessarily legitimate concerns about the economy.
In fact, let me just show our viewers one example what the president has tweeted about the Federal Reserve. E.U. and China will further lower
interest rates and pump money into their systems, you know, saying making it much easier for their manufacturers. Our Fed does nothing and probably
will do very little by comparison. Too bad.
How do pundits, analysts react to this type of question that this might not be a decision that is entirely independent?
QUEST: With something approaching scants and horror that the Fed -- they don't believe -- nobody believes that it is straightforward pursued, the
Fed responding to presidential pressure. The former vice chair of the Fed, Stan Fischer once said to me, you do take it in the back of your mind when
the most powerful man in the world says to you, I don't like what you are doing. So is there an undercurrent within this?
I think the test here is the statement, and that is what happens next? So what they say is, as the committee contemplates the future path, it will
continue to monitor the implications, they're giving nothing away. We do not know if this is one and done or whether this is the start of something
The market seems to believe there could be a couple more cuts on the horizon. But as for this question -- which is very dangerous both -- I
mean, the president is playing with fire when he starts to meddle with the inference -- interfere with the independence of the Fed.
GORANI: Yes. It's dangerous territory when you have a trillion dollar deficit, when the U.S. is borrowing money to continue to pump steroids into
this economy. We'll see how that -- we'll see how that develops. Certainly, there are risks here being taken and we'll monitor -- by the
way, that's Jerome Powell, making his statement.
QUEST: Yes, we're monitoring.
GORANI: We'll monitor that. And you will be with us at the top with more. Thanks very much, Richard Quest.
QUEST: Absolutely. Thank you.
GORANI: An American historian has uncovered long hidden audio of a shocking phone call between then-president Richard Nixon and future
president, Ronald Reagan, the then-governor of California.
Reagan used the racist term to talk about U.N. envoys from Africa in 1971 phone call. He complained how the African diplomats openly celebrated a
U.N. vote that he disagreed with. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.
REAGAN: To see those, those monkeys from those African countries-damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes.
NIXON: (LAUGHS) Rather and then they -- the tail wags the dog there, doesn't it?
NIXON: The tail wags the dog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, CNN's presidential, Tim Naftali, a former director of the Nixon presidential library, is the one who discovered this audio, and he
joins me now.
First of all, what did you think -- what went through your mind when you first heard it?
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I was obviously appalled by the language that the future president, Reagan used. I was not surprised,
sadly, by the way in which Richard Nixon reacted.
GORANI: How did you discover it? Sorry, I thought you were done. Finish your thought, Timothy.
NAFTALI: No. I was going to say that if you're a student of the Nixon tapes, you are accustom, sadly, to evidence of bigotry. The president,
then-president was an anti-Semite. He was homophobic and a racist.
GORANI: Now, how did you -- explain to us why this was not unearthed sooner and why it is that you only came across it a few weeks ago?
NAFTALI: Well, it's not -- it's not that I came across it. It's that the Nixon tapes review story is complicated. I'll try to summarize it.
President Nixon sued the U.S. government to retain control of his tapes. As a result of that, a process, the U.S. government had to release the
tapes in chronological order. It took years, and the last chronological release is in 2013.
After that, the National Archives go back and re-review earlier tapes. This is from the tapes that Richard Nixon made in the first year as
president. I was the director of the Nixon library when we were doing the chronological releases between '07 and '11. And I had heard that there
were some problematic statements, racist statements made by then-governor Reagan in the earlier tapes.
[14:35:58] When I heard that the U.S. government was now reviewing, revisiting the earlier tapes and that private researchers, because I'm a
private researcher now, could request that certain conversations. I did not know which conversation this was nor had I heard it.
But I knew there was something historically relevant in those Nixon-Regan conversations that had been withheld in 2000, and that's when I requested -
- I requested these three conversations last year and they were made available this July, which is coincidence but very helpful to those of us
trying to understand presidential racism.
GORANI: So what impact will this have on the legacy of Ronald Reagan? Because he is lionized within the Republican Party as a near saintly
figure, as really the example of sort of historically of a Republican hero.
NAFTALI: I want our listeners to understand that I think there's a very high bar that you have to cross to call someone a racist. I've studied
enough Nixon tapes that I am sadly -- I sadly concluded that he was a racist.
Ronald Reagan is more complicated story. I'm not a Reagan specialist. This is in a very important data point. For me, as someone who understands
U.S. foreign policy in the late '70s, it helps me understand why Ronald Reagan, when he was challenging Gerald Ford, he was a primary challenge in
1976, why he disagreed with the U.S. policy against the white minority rule in Rhodesia. Reagan supported the white Rhodesian government.
Now, I have a sense of what was going on there. It's going to be up to Reagan historians to see whether there's a pattern of this kind of overt
racism. There's no question that Ronald Reagan did not show understanding for African-American citizens. And that his use of tropes like welfare
queens, the fact that he started his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, sent dog whistles to former Dixiecrats to join the Republican Party.
But did that make him as racist as this call seems to make out? I will leave it to my colleagues to do Reagan history to make that judgment.
GORANI: You do mention in the piece you wrote for The Atlantic around these unearthed reporting, that you believe the current president is,
without using the same type of language, of course, but the same kind of ideas and sentiments are central to some of his narrative.
NAFTALI: I think we have to call it out. I mean, we have enough historical data to be able to point to the kinds of tropes, the metaphors,
the terms of phrase that George Wallace and other overt racists and people like Nixon who was a covert racist used. And we see those tropes. We
don't see these logical, thank God, statements.
But President Trump, in talking -- and saying that people should in time, S-holes and talking about sending people back and talking about rat-
infested places, in the targets that he chooses for his tweet rants, is sending a racist signal.
And one of the things that the Nixon tape show, particularly the ones that we now have in more complete form, because of the National Archives' recent
work, is how racism begets racism. That when you get a racism comment, such as that from Reagan, it opens the door to more racism. Nixon had it
in the soul but he was always careful not to share it beyond the inner circle. Ronald Reagan made it possible for him to do that and he does it
again and again.
So in a White House where people with power have racist views, we don't know, but we have to suspect that the policies and decisions they make are
poisoned by those views. It certainly was the case in the Nixon era.
GORANI: Tim Naftali, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
NAFTALI: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: The British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, is continuing his tour of the United Kingdom. Spending his first days in office attempting to
unite a country very much divided over Brexit, and perhaps nowhere more so than Northern Ireland, which is at the heart of the Brexit debate.
The prime minister visited Belfast earlier where he met with all the main political parties. It wasn't all about Brexit in the backstop. Northern
Ireland hasn't had a government in over two years, since the power sharing arrangement there collapsed, then Mr. Johnson was hoping to bring the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Clearly, the people in Northern Ireland had been without a government, without (INAUDIBLE) for two years
and six months. So my prime focus this morning is to do everything I can to help that to get up and running again. Because I think that's
profoundly in the interest of people here, every citizen here in Northern Ireland. And I'll be helping the parties in any way I can to get that
going and over the line. I expect Brexit may come up a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:40:03] GORANI: Anna Stewart is here. Brexit may come up a little bit. I mean, that is really the main topic of discussion in that part of the
United Kingdom, because they are so affected by this so-called backstop.
ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is the heart of the Brexit problems. Perhaps the even possibility of reaching a deal between
the E.U. and U.K., because the border on the island of Ireland is at the crops of the whole problem.
But the leader was here, prime minister was there, really to try and kick start talks about their government, as you said, they have not a government
now for two and a half years. It didn't help today that although he met with all five political party leaders who are sort of feuding, last night,
he had a private dinner with the DUP. Just one of them come under fire over that.
GORANI: Well, the DUP, of course, is the party that props up the Conservative Party and allows them to govern in the House of Common.
What is Boris Johnson saying about this backstop? Is he serious when he tells the E.U. either you remove that from the -- take it off the table or
I won't even meet with you to talk about a withdrawal agreement?
STEWART: That is the line from Downing Street and the line he keeps repeating. He's got some sort of Panglossian take on Brexit that he's
handed over to the E.U. It's up to them. If they will not abolish the Irish backstop, if they will not reopen withdrawal agreement, then he will
not even go to meet with them. That is the line we are hearing time and time again.
Yesterday, we had the Irish statement saying that he agrees to E.U. There's nothing that can be done about this. Neither side is backing down
at this stage.
GORANI: Right. Because this is a game of chicken, isn't it?
STEWART: I'm not sure we can call it a game of chicken. Well, I guess we could in terms of political terms. But a huge and risky one --
GORANI: Who's going to blink first?
STEWART: Except, one wonders whether the ultimate strategy here is that Boris Johnson to turn around at the end of summer and say, listen, the E.U.
will not help me out. They will not give me what we want. Therefore, I will call an election. Am I seeing a bit of a Boris bounce in the polls?
The Brexit party supporters coming into conservatives, perhaps. This could be the ultimate strategy.
And this tour of the U.K. culminating in Northern Ireland, is it really the beginning of an election campaign, Hala?
GORANI: It would be. But when is the latest you could call an election so that it happens before October 31st, which is when the U.K. due to leave
STEWART: Well, unfortunately, it would be before parliament meets again, which means it's almost impossible, but then he would have to pass all
sorts of technical extension.
GORANI: All right. Well, he's promised to take the U.K. out of the E.U., October 31st, come what may.
STEWART: Do or die no --
GORANI: Anna Stewart, thanks very much.
Still to come tonight, why Prince Harry and Meghan don't plan to have a big family. The royals reveal themselves. And also, we'll be talking about
how the tabloid press in this country seems to be taking some shots at Meghan these days. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Britain's Prince Harry says he's worried about the future of planet earth, only months after he and the Duchess of Sussex showed off
their first child. Harry says they will have only one more child at the most, because he doesn't want to contribute to Earth's dwindling resources.
[14:45:09] He made the comment in an interview with conversation -- a conservationist, I should say, Jane Goodall, that was published in the
September issue of British Vogue, which is worth noting, was guest-edited by his wife, Meghan Markle.
Joining me now is playwright, novelist, critic, and journalist, Bonnie Greer, who has opinions about how the British press and Britain, in
general, is talking about Meghan Markle.
BONNIE GREER, PLAYWRIGHT & AUTHOR: It's been really, really interesting, Hala. I think we've entered what I call a nativist moment. If you look at
where America is, where Donald trump is placing America, removing against away the idea against away from the idea of multi-culturality as a
desirable norm and moving actually toward an idea of that not being desirable and the default position, frankly being whiteness. So it's very
GORANI: Do you think that's what's happening?
GREER: It's very subtle here. It's very subtle. I don't know how far it's going to go. But if you look at what's happening in the public
sphere, for instance, I've been paying attention. The lessening of African care being voices for instance in the public discourse, politics, and so
for forth, African voices -- so that we become others. We become something different to a thing called British-ness. And it's very subtle here now.
But it's starting to be --
GORANI: How was it? How does it manifest? And by the way, I want to remind our viewers what I told them there in the intro, which is that
Meghan Markle guest edited British Vogue, the September issue. She chose female pioneers. She was immediately criticized. Why didn't you include
the queen? Why didn't you include other people or Asian women?
So there was immediately criticism directed at her. And I mean, there was praise, but it was immediately as well criticism. Why do you think?
GREER: Well, Meghan becomes a kind of magnet for this sort of nativism. That Brexit has morphed into. So it's changed from the leave situation,
which is very complicated until kind of this is what Britain is and this is what we're going to do.
She opens a lot of tropes, Hala. She's not white, she's foreign. And so she walks into, very innocently, this whole moment that we're having here,
led by the way, by the Prime minister, Mr. Boris Johnson, either knowingly or unknowingly. And, of course, it's what Nigel Farage, his whole campaign
about is nativism.
GORANI: So Prince Harry said -- mentioned the idea of unconscious bias, because I don't think people necessarily consciously --
GREER: No, no, no. The British are wonderful people. It's not true.
GORANI: Yes, exactly.
GREER: But the horn that's being used is the Brexit horn and within that - - and people aren't careful, nativism is starting to go and Boris Johnson is one who was careless people on this planet. And he's actually allowing
himself to kind of be the front person for this in some way, speaking about British-ness. British is always meant -- I have lived here for three
decades, multiculturality, it's leaving now.
GORANI: But do you think it's because she's a woman of color or because she's a foreigner and she's not playing by the rules and she's not Kate,
you know, who's more in the mold of the royal bride?
GREER: Well, Kate is an English village person, if I can say that. OK. So she knows how this plays. But that doesn't even into it in a way. This
is about the moment that we're in now. And the Duchess of Sussex, actually, is everything that this moment for leave people and for
Brexiteers, it is not.
GORANI: But I guess my question is, why do you think it's because she's a woman of color and not for other reasons?
GREER: I think because we are -- we have collided with this. This moment where by Englishness, because that's what most people see British-sass is
defined as not being me, it's not being her. That's not what it is. We are outside of that trope.
And so therefore, she becomes the model in every way of what the country is not, and that's the argument right now.
GORANI: So, I mean, a full confession, I'm not too interested in royal gossip --
GREER: And then neither --
GORANI: But in this particular case, I find interesting the tabloid coverage of her, because usually, that somehow reflects the pulse of a
nation at least --
GREER: Well, Hala, it makes the pulse of the nation. It creates the pulse --
GORANI: Does it cerate it or does it reflect it?
GREER: It creates it. It creates the pulse of the nation.
GORANI: Because I want to show the front page of The Sun, which you tweeted out. This is unrelated to her, guest editing Vogue.
GORANI: But there were reports that they'd issued a series of rules for people around their cottage where they live, not to address them. Let's
put that Sun which is Rupert Murdoch on tabloid newspaper. Putting it up front page. "The Meg Commandments" and there is a list there of everything
that has been reportedly written down a series of rules directed at neighbors of the --
GREER: You know (INAUDIBLE) it's open land. I mean, would you want somebody welcome to a newborn baby and say, hey, can I get a picture of
your baby? Or, you know, walk your dog? I don't think so and maybe that's all she said. Please don't your face next to my newborn baby. It is a
[14:50:15] GORANI: And it was also the Wimbledon match where she was watching Serena Williams play. There was a lot of negative tabloid
coverage of her as if she's some sort of insulated diva who's refusing to interact.
GREER: Well, the problem is she's a public person, she was in a public area, she was with her bodyguards, the body guards would have freaked if
they saw a guy walk up with a camera, turn his back and started taking a picture. That's their job.
So what happened is it got blown up into this big thing about Meghan. She was in a public arena, they were doing their job. This guy didn't realize
it, he didn't know it, but they made it into a big story.
GORANI: But the story being, of course, the reaction of those observing that moment, which was interesting.
Bonnie Greer, thanks so much.
GREER: Thank you.
GORANI: I will clear my throat, but good thing we can take a break now. Some of the biggest names in the history of Hollywood are teaming up for a
film that most of us will never see in theaters. Netflix hits the big time when we come back.
GORANI: When the history of Hollywood is written, a film coming out this fall called "Irishman," maybe particularly notable.
The first trailer for that film was released today, and I want to show you a little bit of it. Pay special attention to how the stars in the film
look and to the studio that is backing the project.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you like to be a part of this history?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I would. Whatever you need me to do, I'm available.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He likes the thought, don't he?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Academy Award winners and that was the Netflix logo you just saw. Making this film by legendary Oscar-winning director, Martin Scorsese,
starring a slew of Oscar-winning actors, will be resealed by a studio that specializes in content for television sets and computer screens.
I'm joined now by CNN Business Media Writer, Frank Pallotta. So this is really a big -- a big moment. A big turning point, even, when it comes to
movie production and movie releases, because from what I understand, this movie will not be released in theaters, correct?
FRANK PALLOTA, CNN BUSINESS MEDIA WRITER: No, that's not correct. It'll probably be released in some select theaters. There's also been some
reports that there might be a push to make it open nationwide. But it'll be interesting to see. We're not really sure yet how many theaters "The
Irishman" is going to be.
But it's kind of weird to think about Scorsese film that you can't see in theaters, but it'll be in some theaters.
GORANI: OK. Well, I spoke to Robert De Niro a few months ago about this film, and his hope was that Netflix would basically be wise enough to
release it in theaters. You're telling me now that that is potentially the plan.
Let's listen to what De Niro told me recently about this film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT DE NIRO, AMERICAN ACTOR: A movie like I heard pain houses "The Irishman" should be put out in a big venue, a big theater, and places
certain cities, and then it can be shown later in whatever like any movies these days. But that's important. And I think that they're working that
part of it out, at least in beginning and opens in a grand way, especially a movie that we've done. And they're smart enough to know that on Netflix.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:55:22] GORANI: So I wonder if that's how it will play out, that first, it will be a theatrical release, then it will be shown on Netflix. I
wonder if you'll -- if that's part -- if you'll get that wish granted.
PALLOTTA: It's be really interesting to see because this is the conflict we're kind of seeing right now between Netflix and theater owners. Because
the rule usually is that you have to play a certain amount of weeks or even sometimes a certain amount of months in theaters before you can go to home
Obviously, Netflix, in their world, what they would really love to do is put this in theaters and on Netflix on the same day. It's probably
unlikely that that's going to happen. But they kind of saw -- they kind of played by the rules a little bit with "Roma" last year, which went on to
get a lot of Academy Award nominations. This is likely going to be a big Academy Award buzzy movie.
I mean, obviously, no one has seen it yet. So we don't really know what it is. But how can you go up against De Niro, Pesci, Pacino, and Scorsese.
This is a big moment, not just for Hollywood, but for Netflix.
So it'll be interesting to see if they kind of bend their own rules to play by the game that Hollywood has played by for decades.
GORANI: All right. Frank Pallotta, thanks very much. I'll certainly be watching it. Very interested to see that film. Thank you, Frank.
Finally this hour, some video that would make any parents' heart stop. It's hard to believe that this three-year-old boy in China is actually safe
after this happened on Monday. He's hanging from a balcony. Six floors up, neighbors gathered below, and somehow managed to catch him in a
stretched out blanket.
Police say the boy was left alone while his grandmother went out for groceries. But thanks to those neighbors, everything worked out. It does
indeed take a village. I cannot believe that this kid is OK. Apparently, by the way from what I read, not a scratch on the kid.
I'm Hala Gorani, thanks to all of you for watching tonight. I'll see you next time. Stay with CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with more on the Federal
Reserve rate cut.