Return to Transcripts main page


At Least 29 Killed in Two Mass Shootings Only Hours Apart. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 4, 2019 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:15] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Tonight in El Paso, Texas, a 2-month-old baby boy has no idea his life is changed forever. His name is Paul. He was found under the body of his mother, her blood had spilled on him. Some of his fingers were broken but he was alive. He is, it seems, alive because his mother Jordan shielded him from the bullets that killed her and the bullets that killed her husband Andre. They were in the Walmart shopping for school supplies.

There are so many in El Paso tonight and in Dayton, Ohio, whose lives have changed forever. 29 people are dead, 29 people who tonight should be alive. Many more are in hospitals struggling to recover from gunshot wounds. They should be enjoying a mild summer Sunday evening right now, reflecting on the weekend perhaps or thinking back on a day spent shopping. Their Saturday out, a cookout today, or something they perhaps heard in church.

The fact that they're not and for 29 people never will again is the reason we're here tonight and the reason we weep. There are vigils tonight for the 29 men, women and children who have been murdered in two mass shootings in the last 24 hours. That's in addition to another mass shooting earlier in the week. Nine killed overnight at a Dayton, Ohio, night spot. 20 earlier yesterday at that Walmart in El Paso, Texas, in what authorities now have reason to believe is another act of anti-immigrant, white supremacist domestic terrorism.

The alleged killer, who as always we're not naming, traveled more than 600 miles from his home near Dallas, Texas, to a city that's more than 80 percent Hispanic. His name is on a hate-filled manifesto posted on the Web site 8chan shortly before the killing began. One line reads, quote, "This is attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas," which is similar to the manifesto of the Pittsburgh synagogue gunman and the Christchurch, New Zealand shooter.

They're framed as if called to arms and in that respect therefore removed from acceptable political discourse. By the same token, it is hard to ignore the fact that they echo, sometimes even using the exact same language some of the themes of this president of a nation under siege, being invaded, facing an infestation. These are the president's words and they can't be denied.

In the manifesto linked to him, the El Paso suspect says he believed all this before Donald Trump became president and calls any attempts to blame the president, quote, "fake news," which are also the president's words. So in discussing the subject, we think it's important to mention that no president until now has ever even flirted with such themes, let alone given voice to them. The question tonight in doing so has he also given license for people who hold the ugliest and most belligerent versions of these beliefs to act on them?

Late today on the way home from a weekend at his country club, he made some brief remarks.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hate has no place in our country. And we're going to take care of it. We have to get it stopped.


COOPER: Well, as we said, there are vigils in two cities tonight. We begin in El Paso with CNN's Ed Lavandera.


ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 10:39 Saturday morning came the first calls for help. A 21-year-old white male walked into this Walmart store in east El Paso and unleashed a deadly attack with an assault-style rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the McDonald's, wondering what happened. I'm looking to see what's going on. And more people coming in and then I hear boom, boom, boom, boom. We all run out.

LAVANDERA: Thousands of shoppers, including families, simply thinking of their back-to-school shopping lists filled the store and parking lot where the shooting started.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was -- people were running from inside the mall, and they were just screaming to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told my mother, mom, there are gunshots. We need to go. And she just froze and did not move. And I told her, let's move. Get down. Get down.

LAVANDERA: Shoppers took cover. Businesses went on lockdown and first responders rushed to locate an active shooter. Within hours, El Paso police spokesman Robert Gomez said an arrest had been made.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have one person in custody. I can confirm that it is a white male in 20s

LAVANDERA: The suspect lives some 600 miles away in the town of Allen, Texas, a sprawling suburb north of Dallas. The gunman was arrested without incident just a few blocks from the Walmart store. Federal sources tell CNN, the shooter left an online manifesto filled with anti-immigrant views and a hatred of Hispanics.

CHIEF GREG ALLEN, EL PASO POLICE: Right now we have a manifesto from this individual that indicates to some degree it has a nexus to potential hate crime.

[20:05:02] The FBI will be looking into that with the other federal authorities. Right now we are looking at potential capital murder charges for this individual.

LAVANDERA: Some families are still desperately awaiting news of their loved ones, like the family of 86-year-old Angie Englisbee. She was talking on her cell phone to a relative four minutes before the shooting erupted. Her family hasn't heard from her since.

WILL ENGLISBEE, MOTHER IS MISSING: My brother spoke with her at 10:31. She was in the line at Walmart. In the checkout line. They spoke for four minutes until 10:35 and that was the last we heard of her.

LAVANDERA: Hours after the attack, local political leaders tried to grasp the magnitude of the loss.

JOE MOODY, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: There are 20 families that woke up whole this morning with their loved ones. And when the sun sets tonight here in El Paso, they will go to bed without them.

LAVANDERA: On Sunday, El Paso's district attorney Jaime Esparza announced the gunman will face the most severe punishment.

JAIME ESPARZA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The state charge is capital murder. And so he is eligible for the death penalty. We will seek the death penalty.

JOHN BASH, U.S. ATTORNEY: We are treating it as a domestic terrorism case. And we're going to do what we do to terrorists in this country, which is deliver swift and certain justice.


COOPER: And Ed Lavandera joins us right now from El Paso.

Just talk to me a little bit about what the scene is there like now and what's expected tonight across the city.

LAVANDERA: Well, Anderson, across the city of El Paso, a number of vigils will be held tonight. We are at one of them, which is actually really considering what has happened here this weekend really quaint and beautiful scene here. We're hearing this is a sports complex and we've been hearing the sounds of little legal baseball games, families cheering, laughter and smiles. In the next couple of hours, there will be a vigil here with young people celebrating and trying to offer comfort to the victims and the families that have been so tragically hurt in this attack.

COOPER: Ed Lavandera, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Just 13 hours after the El Paso shooting, it happened in Dayton, Ohio. And everything happened fast there. 24 seconds, that's how long it took Dayton Police to arrive on the scene of the mass shooting at Ned Peppers Bar early this morning. 24 seconds, which is more than you could ever ask when it comes to a police response. It doesn't get much faster than that. More than you could ask of any police force anywhere. Yet in that same incredibly short space of time, 24 seconds, the gunman was able to fire enough shots to kill nine people and wound many more.

Details now from CNN's Ryan Young.


RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A flurry of shots show the brief but deadly moments that the suspected gunman opened fire on Saturday night crowds in downtown Dayton, Ohio. Police say the gunman parked his car and walked through Dayton's Oregon District, a neighborhood known for its nightlife, and began firing shots just after 1:00 a.m.


YOUNG: Surveillance video shows crowds running from the shots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired. (INAUDIBLE). A lot more shots fired.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A3, where are you at?

YOUNG: Dayton Police routinely patrol this area on Saturday night. And they were able to respond in seconds.

MAYOR NAN WHALEY, DAYTON, OHIO: A suspect opened fire along the Oregon District. He was wearing body armor and used a 223 caliber high capacity magazine. He had additional magazines.

CHIEF RICHARD BIEHL, DAYTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: The threat was neutralized in approximately 30 seconds of the suspect firing his first shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dispatch, we got shots fired. We got multiple people down. We're going to need multiple medics.

YOUNG: Two women say they were out with girlfriends.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People just started running, they started pushing us out the back door.

YOUNG: Her friend says she remembers chatting with a woman about their outfits. But the next time she saw her --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was laying on the -- on the concrete dead outside of the club that we was at.

YOUNG: Robert Woodruff says he was standing several feet away from the gunman as he fired shots.

ROBERT WOODRUFF, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I thought I was about to die until the officer, he was like standing over the top of me, like he started shooting at the guy. So he saved everybody that was out here.

YOUNG: Despite the quick response, at least nine were killed and more than a dozen injured. One of those killed was the shooter's own 22- year-old sister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers who were involved in ending this tragedy, their professionalism, their quickness, their amazing courage and their response undoubtedly saved many, many, many lives. We will never know how many lives were saved. The assailant was obviously very, very close to being able to kill dozens and dozens more people.

YOUNG: Ryan Young, Dayton, Ohio.


COOPER: Anthony Reynolds had just left the bar at Ned Peppers when the shooting started. He ran out back where many of the people inside, some of whom had been trampled, were rushing out the back of the place.

[20:10:03] This is the video he took of those moments.




COOPER: Again according to Anthony, that was the scene behind Ned Peppers when people exited. The shootings took place in the front of the bar. I spoke to Anthony Reynolds who says he saw the shooter earlier that evening.


COOPER: Anthony, I understand you left Ned Peppers just after 1:00 a.m., which was just seconds before the shooter opened fire. Can you just tell me where you were and when did you realize something awful was happening?

ANTHONY REYNOLDS, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I was leaving Ned Peppers at 1:05 a.m. and that's the exact time because I had to look at my phone. I was with a family member, my cousin. And as we was walking out the door, I just remembered telling -- I remember telling the security guard at the door -- he is there every weekend. I usually visit quite frequently. And I remember telling him, my man, you guys are having a heck of a party in there. And we laughed about that. And I could see that the line was still packed with people trying to get in because the club doesn't close until like 2:00 to 2:30 a.m. And once I walked past that line, once I get maybe towards the end of the line, I'm like 10 to 15 feet away from the door, you hear the first -- you hear the first shot. But you not really understanding that it's a shot because it's not a familiar sound down there. So we looking around to see what's going on. But then you hear the second shot. And when you hear the second shot, you realize somebody is shooting.

But you still didn't understand what's going on. And so then I just started hearing rapid fire. Just repetitive shooting. And it sounded like big guns. So I'm instantly telling my -- I'm looking for my family member. And when I looked and realized that he wasn't on the side or in front of me, I knew he was behind me. So I turned around. I'm like, come on, man, they're shooting. And as -- I'm sorry. As I was turning around is when I was actually able to see the guy shooting. And when I seen those people in the lines, bodies start like falling, I knew people was getting hit. And so I kind of like -- kind of hightailed it out of there.

COOPER: What did the -- you said you actually saw the shooter.

REYNOLDS: He was a white man. He had on black. He had a long rifle- style gun. And he had a mask that covered the lower half of his face. But you could still see the top vision of his face.

COOPER: So, you know, as you said, it's one thing -- you know, we think of what we would do in a situation like this. And you never really know what you're going to do until you are in a situation like this because you can't really imagine the adrenaline, the fear, all the things, the chaos. You started videotaping at some point. Can you just kind of tell us -- and we're going to show the video. Can you just tell us where -- what are we looking at? This is the scene right outside the club.

REYNOLDS: Right. What you're seeing are people that are trying to get out of the back of Ned Peppers because the shooter is in the front. And once we traveled around -- I was on a front strip. And so once I traveled around, I was able to see the back of the club. And those are people who are just falling out of the club, trying to -- the security guards are doing their best to try to get people out. You see them pulling people.

People are helping people. There's even more footage out there. You can see people giving each other CPR -- you know, giving victims CPR. You know what I'm saying? And just chest compressions and everything. Like people were just trying to help.

COOPER: And I mean, had you left the club, you know, a minute later, you could have been right in the middle of that.

REYNOLDS: Thirty seconds. I'm not even going to give myself a minute. Thirty seconds. And that's why I said when I was coming out of the club, me and my cousin, we were having that conversation. And he said, we should have stayed until 1:30 because we were having such a good time. And we seen that there was so many people down there. Everybody seemed to be having a good time. And we wished we could have stayed but we had work planned. He had a 4:00 in-time and I had a 6:00 a.m. in-time that I had to be in work. So we were leaving at that time for that reason.

COOPER: The security guard you talked to on the way out, who, you know, you said it was a good party inside, did that person -- are they OK, do you know?

REYNOLDS: As far as what we understand, all security were OK.

[20:15:03] There's a lot of stories going around. I hope everybody is OK, man. Just -- because seeing that, seeing that firsthand it got me shaken up. And last night, I was kind of just in shock. And I was talking to a lot of reporters just to give them the real story so we wouldn't get like sound bites or get -- you know what I'm saying.

COOPER: Right.

REYNOLDS: Wrong stories. I want to let people understand the truth of like this stuff is serious. I see a lot of times online when I see people say that these things are hoaxed or I see people think that these things are fake, because you're not going through it, these things are real. I got a 12-year-old daughter. I got a 10-year-old daughter. I got a fiancee. I got a career. I got family, like, I'm happy that I was made -- able to make it home.

And I sat in my driveway all night until 6:00 a.m. just praising that I was able to make it home. But just feeling so like sad that so many people wasn't able to make it home. And then understand that people in my community, that we grew up with, you know, are going to be devastated and their lives are changed.


REYNOLDS: My life changed because even today as I'm sitting out here, I'm just thinking, you know what I'm saying, that any time somebody could come through and just take my life into their hands. You know what I'm saying? That's scary.

COOPER: And all those folks who are in the hospital still, you know, with some of those wounds are life changing, no doubt. What do you think needs to change? I mean, you know, you see this stuff on television. It happens, you know, way too often.

REYNOLDS: I think we need to change -- honestly, what I think needs to change is we hear a lot of talking points. We hear a lot of arguments and talk about dialogue. We need action. We need action. We have been going through this too long. They're getting worse. And we got two shootings in 24 hours, three in one week. We as a country have to find a way to answer this. Because, you know, letting it go on and then chalking it up to mental disability or chalking it up to, you know, we didn't catch that person, why didn't we? Why was he legally a gun owner? Why? And they got -- we got stories of him threatening to shoot up his school as a youth. And nobody -- that's not on the radar. Why not? You know what I'm saying? That man lived no more than 30 miles up the highway from our city, and he planned that. And he came here to hurt people.

COOPER: Yes. Well, Anthony, I appreciate you talking to us. And I'm glad you're OK. And obviously, you know, I know you're going to be thinking about all those who are not OK and who will never be OK again. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

REYNOLDS: Thank you, sir.

COOPER: Well, up next more on the racist manifesto that authorities believe is linked to the El Paso gunman. We'll look at how white nationalism plays into the fabric of what's been taking place day-by- day, month-by-month, leading up to the latest mass shooting in Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:20:51] COOPER: Well, white nationalism from what took place in Charlottesville to the awful events in Texas is becoming the focus of more and more attention by authorities and by the press.

CNN's Sara Sidner, who's been covering the growing movement for us for quite some time now, is in El Paso for us tonight.

So you've been digging into this guy's beliefs. What have you learned?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, he has been very strong anti-immigration beliefs. There's a lot of hatred being spewed if indeed it turns out that this manifesto is linked directly to the suspected shooter. And if, in fact, he posted it on an online forum called 8chan. He talks in that about probably going to die today, he says. But he goes down this really disturbing rabbit hole talking about immigrants, both legal and illegal immigrants.

He is after anyone who has come to this country looking for a better life. He is talking about particularly Hispanic immigrants. So he's talking about brown people and wanting to get rid of brown people. There is a lot of fear that you can see as you read through it. It's a fear of being, quote, "replaced." This is an idea that is spouted by white nationalists and Neo-Nazis, and white supremacists, the haters of the world spout this a lot based on the fear that somehow the white race is going to disappear and that this is the fault of black and brown people.

And they want to either rid the earth of them or at least keep them out of the country in which they live. And that goes for here in America or same kind of rhetoric is being used in Europe as well. Very disturbing stuff. Very strongly anti-immigration. He talks about job loss, although it's interesting with him, you know, this is a young man, right? And in his LinkedIn, we looked at that and it appears that the suspect talks about being a bit lazy himself, not being motivated himself.

And so these are sort of the confusing cues that you get from some of these suspected shooters. But he is definitely virulently racist and virulently anti-immigration. He came here, according to police, all the way from Allen, Texas. I used to live right near that area. He went to Plano High School, according to police. The suspected shooter drove hundreds of miles to come here because this is where the border is. This is where folks are that he deems not worthy of being in America. And so according to police, he shot and killed 20 people, injured 26 -- Anderson.

COOPER: And he's using language like invasion. He even talked about Texas becoming, you know, a Democratic state, which seemed to alarm him greatly. 8chan, just for those who don't know what is, can you explain?

SIDNER: Yes. Yes, it's a message board or a forum online. Basically you hear like streams of consciousness from people and there are certainly sections of it that are virulently racist. They are virulently violent. They encourage violence. What is shocking when you go on these sites, as you sort of go down the rabbit hole with those who have gotten on there, and are talking, as soon as something like this happens, and the suspected shooter is white and their target is black or brown people, they light up with glee.

They are often praising the suspected shooter. They are often deifying the suspected shooter. They are often calling that shooter a saint. There is this sense that this person is doing right by the white race. There are very few people on there saying that he shouldn't be doing this. And more saying that this is what needs to be done if, for example, politicians can't keep the brown folks out, the Latin Americans out, the black folks out, then this is a good alternative. You see memes as well, Anderson.

I want to let you listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center who has been delving deep into this for many years, what they say about 8chan.


KEEGAN HANKS, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: These image boards are a reminder of what an unvarnished and unfiltered white supremacist movement looks like. You know, the type of hyper violent rhetoric that you see bandied about and celebrated there. It shows you the real character of these communities and what their goals are for society. It's no accident that you see repeatedly people come to these sites to post their manifestos in the moments before they go out to commit an atrocity.


[20:25:04] SIDNER: And that Keegan Hanks of SPLC describing what it's like to go on and look at some of the virulent racism that's on this site. And we should mention, this is the third person who has posted on this site who links themself to white nationalism, who is suspected of a mass shooting, the third person in just a year's time. So this is a place where racists go. This is a racist heaven, if you will, Anderson. And we did talk to the founder of this site who has since left the site saying he believes -- the guy who created the site believes it should be shut down at least for now -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sara Sidner, thank you very much.

Someone who knows a great deal about white nationalism, in fact he says his father popularized the term is Derek Black, a son of a grand wizard of the KKK. He renounced all of that back in 2013. He's been writing and talking about white nationalism ever since. Derek Black's story told in the book, "Rising Out of Hatred." He joins us now.

Derek, thanks for being with us. There's still a lot of unknowns obviously at this point. If this so-called manifesto or just these ramblings is linked to the shooter, it's pretty clear it's white supremacist ideology.

DEREK BLACK, FORMER WHITE NATIONALIST: Yes. Very much so. He directly references the New Zealand shooter's manifesto and the language in it is part of a longtime talking points that are used in the white nationalist movement not just over the last few years, but over decades. It's a pretty organized movement and an ideology that's fairly coherent and has grown over the years, especially online, and continues to inspire mass violence like this.

COOPER: Well, I mean, it is interesting that, you know, a lot of these people look to other shooters, past shooters, for inspiration in the way that school shooters looked to the, you know, the Columbine shooters as sort of inspiration, and they want to -- it's one of the reasons we don't use their names because they want the kind of fame or infamy, you know, or martyrdom that others like to claim.

BLACK: I think it's fascinating and it's something that I have not been able to ever understand that there are wide swaths of the white nationalist movement, the part that I came out of, like my family, that feel that they're very mainstream and that they're trying to convince people that their talking points are not so bad and not so hateful. And every single time an attack like this happens and over the years they would always happen, the first thing was to go and see whether they were a member of my dad's Web site or to see whether they were affiliated with us.

And then to go out and condemn violence and say that illegal activity was banned. So therefore, the fact that these shooters were inspired by everything that they were promoting, that we were promoting, that they had no culpability for inspiring these acts. One after another after another. And that they could continue to promote this sort of mainstream, softer form of white supremacy and say that they were not implicated in the violence.

And it was as if the talking points themselves that condemns whole swaths of America, immigrants and communities of color, and said that they were outsiders, as if that wasn't implicitly violent. And that continues. That's still how many of these communities are going to react to this and other shootings.

COOPER: You know, the president today said -- you know, there's -- hate has no place in this country. I'm wondering when you hear some of the rhetoric he has used, whether he, you know, acknowledges it or not, among white nationalists, among white supremacists, there has been positive reaction to some of the things he said. Now the president has also at times said he disavows, you know, any form of hatred or white supremacy.

Do you believe there's a connection?

BLACK: I think the rhetoric that the president uses mimics white nationalist talking points frequently that what white nationalists are trying to do when they are looking for recruits or trying to convince people that they have a following and that they are not so bad, those things are the same sort of sentiments that the president campaigned on and says from the White House today, that communities of color are more dangerous, which is untrue, that immigrants are committing crimes and are replacing us and are hurting America.

Like these sort of isolating, attacking, offensive language, there are consequences to saying things like this. There are consequences to trying to tap into that sort of hateful passion that it's disingenuous to say that a movement that is based on that, whether it is as mainstream as some forms of conservatism or the white nationalist movement, these outreaches that tap into some of the oldest forms of white supremacy in America are going to have consequences. Words have consequences.

COOPER: Derek Black, it's really interesting to talk to you. I appreciate your time.

BLACK: Thanks for having me on.

COOPER: Yes. Stay with us. We have a lot more ahead on this special edition of 360. Coming up next, the aunt and uncle of the mom who lost her life. She didn't lose her life. Her life was taken from her.

[20:30:00] She was murdered. She saved a life of her 2-month-old son.


COOPER: In El Paso, tonight, a little boy is recovering from broken fingers, a baby, 2 months old. We mentioned him at the top of the program. His name is Paul. He's 2 months old and he owes his life to his mom, Jordan, who, according to the family, did what mothers do. They protect their kids.

When he gets a little older, he'll be able to hear the story himself, but sadly, he won't be able to hear it from his mom. She died saving his life and he'll have that memory with him forever. Joining us now is Jordan's aunt and uncle, Liz Terry and Jesse Jamrowski, they are brother and sister.

Liz and Jesse, thank you so much for being with us. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. It's unimaginable. Jesse, can you just tell us about Jordan and Andre and the kind of people they were?

JESSE JAMROWSKI, NIECE DIED SHIELDING 2-MONTH-OLD BABY: They were beautiful. They were very hard-working. They were amazing parents to their three children. They gave what they could, for them, as far as support and mostly, they gave everything they could, in love. And that's what ultimately we will remember about them.

[20:35:01] COOPER: And Liz, I understand that Jordan, she had dropped off one child, and I think at cheerleading practice, correct me if I'm wrong, and they went to Wal-Mart to buy school supplies. Is that right?

LIZ TERRY, NIECE DIED SHIELDING 2-MONTH-OLD BABY: Yes. They were -- their oldest child, Skylan, who turned 5 yesterday, was dropped off at cheer practice and I think they had a closed practice. So Andre and Jordan and baby Paul had headed to Wal-Mart to do some school supply shopping.

COOPER: And Paul --

TERRY: And obviously --

COOPER: Paul is just 2 months old, I mean, they -- it was -- I mean, it's so incredibly recent that they must have been so joyful.

TERRY: Oh, they were. They just celebrated their one-year anniversary, July 30th, their one-year wedding anniversary. Baby Paul is a beautiful baby. It was our middle brother, Jordan's father, his first boy. He had three girls, Jordan included, and two granddaughters. So, I don't think he'd ever thought he'd see the day he'd have a boy. And this was Andre's, obviously, his son--

JAMROWSKI: His firstborn son.

TERRY: His firstborn son. So, there was a lot of joy, a lot of celebration in the family, and met with obvious devastation.

COOPER: And how is Paul doing? I understand he had some fingers broken.

TERRY: He did. He was bruised up, two fingers broken, they did an MRI this morning, and everything turned out fine. He was just released from UMC Children's, an hour and a half or so ago.


TERRY: -- to his grandparents. So, I guess, as children are resilient, shouldn't be faced with this situation, but he's doing great, considering the circumstances.

COOPER: And what do you know about how he -- about how he was found? About -- because I understand Jordan was alive and actually brought to the hospital.

TERRY: Correct. From what we understand, she was taken into critical condition. What little we know, we just -- with all the chaos and all of the things that have been said, is that he was pulled -- baby Paul was pulled from her, still had blood. I would imagine from what we understand, he went into the hospital as --

JAMROWSKI: John Doe, baby John Doe. The details are very cloudy, but from what we understand, baby Paul is recovered from the crime scene with his mother on top of him. And we got word that Andre had jumped in front of his wife, to protect his wife and son throughout the whole circumstance, so very devastating.

His mother and the son was taken to the hospital, thankfully, but --

TERRY: We lost Jordan.

JAMROWSKI: We lost Jordan, yesterday, and Andre as well.

COOPER: Liz and Jesse, what do you want people to know about Jordan, about Andre, about what the world has lost?

TERRY: They were the light. They were definitely a contribution to this world. They will be missed. Jordan would talk to anybody and everybody. She was every bit of a self-sacrificing mother. And obviously, Andre, an amazing father. She was the light of our life. She was the jokester. She was the contagious laugh, a smile that could light up the room, and the world can know that two amazing humans were stripped from us and their babies are left now parentless.

But we want -- we will do everything in our power to -- as a family, to unite behind them and continue to remind them of the amazing parents that they had. There's not enough words to -- I think the ultimate sacrifice a parent can show of love is obviously shielding your children, which you shouldn't be doing --


TERRY: -- in a Wal-Mart, when you're shopping for school supplies --

COOPER: Liz and --

TERRY: -- for bullets.

COOPER: Liz and Jesse, I appreciate you in your grief, telling us about them. And, again, I'm so sorry for what your family is going through.

TERRY: Thank you.

JAMROWSKI: Thank you.

TERRY: Our condolences to the rest of the victims and families.

COOPER: Thank you very much. Again, thank you for talking to us. You take care.

Coming up, a lot of Democrats, including Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, are calling for the Senate to be called back into session, immediately, to deal with gun control legislation. We'll talk with one of those Democrats, next.



COOPER: The Senate is not in session now, off for its annual August recess, but after what's happened in the past 24 hours, Democrats are ramping up their calls from Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, to bring everyone back and vote on long-stalled gun control legislation already passed by the House.

I'm joined by one of those Democrats, Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal. Do you think this is actually likely? Why would they do that?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Well, Mitch McConnell takes almost perverse pride in calling himself the Grim Reaper. But there is nothing humorous about the pain and shock that these communities are enduring, which I know, having lived through Sandy hook and its aftermath. And, I think my Republican colleagues, at least, some of them, are ready to consider action, Senators Toomey and Graham, in statements and tweets, and Senator Scott, in saying he'd be willing to come back, all Republicans. And I think that Mitch McConnell will be under increasing pressure, but is it likely? Probably not, but possibly, yes.

COOPER: There's certainly -- look -- and we -- you know, we all know how many of these we have seen and how many families, you know, have been destroyed by this. If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, where children were just slaughtered, is it any more likely that there would be real change after this?

BLUMENTHAL: Absolutely, Anderson. The politics of this issue has changed fundamentally. We have created a movement.

[20:45:02] All of the Grassroots groups, moms demand action, Sandy Hook promised new town action alliance, Brady, have made a key difference, and in the last election, gun violence prevention was on the ballot, and it won.

Look at the presidential candidates this year, can you recall a time when all of the major presidential candidates on the Democratic side, were advocating for gun violence prevention? And most importantly, the vice-like grip of the NRA and the gun lobby on Congress is breaking. The NRA is imploding. And the gun lobby no longer has that kind of dominance that it had before.

COOPER: Beto O'Rourke from El Paso, Democratic candidate, he has essentially said that the presidential rhetoric is partially to blame for this, I'm paraphrasing. Do you believe that?

BLUMENTHAL: The president, unquestionably, has aligned himself, in his language, with white nationalists and white supremacists. He denounced the Latino immigrants coming into this country, as thugs and animals. He has condemned it as an invasion, much the same language that reportedly was used in this manifesto that the killer in El Paso posted.

COOPER: Because, I mean, there were certainly, you know, white supremacists and white nationalists violence before Donald Trump became president.

BLUMENTHAL: But he has used his megaphone, his platform, as a means to enable and encourage a lot of that side of public discourse. And he bears a responsibility. The shooter, unquestionably, is the one who should be held most culpable. The shooters in his mass killings are the ones who kill people. But there are enablers. And they should bear a responsibility as well.

COOPER: I want to play something that the House Minority Leader Kevin McCartney said about this today.


REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): You want to see from these individuals what they wrote and others. But, I mean, this may be a place that we could find this ahead of time. There may be a place of what's being written can be changed, can be an indication that an individual needs help and others that we can stop.

But the idea of these video games, they dehumanize individuals to have a game of shooting individuals and others. I've always felt that is a problem for future generations.


COOPER: Kevin McCarthy. I mean, are these video games, the problem? I mean, it seems like that was an argument that was made a long time ago and certainly, you know, it may be in the mix with disturbed individuals, but it seems interesting that he's focusing on video games.

BLUMENTHAL: There has been a rise in hate crimes over the last three years, not uncoincidentally, and the director of the FBI cited it in his testimony to Congress, just last week. You can attribute it to video games. You can blame a lot of different sources. But there's no question that public rhetoric stokes hatred and racism. And some of that rhetoric has come from the president himself.

And he has a responsibility here. But the single most important step that can be done to prevent this kind of mass shooting or the individual killings that happen, whether it's domestic violence or suicide, is to take guns away from dangerous people, people who are dangerous to themselves or others.

And that's why I re-tweeted Senator Graham's tweet just yesterday, calling for federal action. And he and I have been working on a bill last session. I'm hopeful that he will continue with this kind of leadership in the coming session as chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

Because taking guns away from people who are dangerous to themselves or others, as 16 states have statutes that do through emergency risk protection order, also known as red flags statutes, is one of the most single most important steps that we can take.

COOPER: Senator Blumenthal, appreciate your time.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

COOPER: Thank you very much. A quick programming note, tomorrow night, don't miss my exclusive interview with Vice President Joe Biden. That's in 360 at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Coming up, the parents of a student killed in the Parkland, Florida mass shooting, who happened to be near El Paso, when this latest shooting happened. Their perspective, when we come back.



COOPER: The parents of a student killed in mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, just happened to be across the border from El Paso yesterday, when those killings took place. They didn't see what took place, but were there to unveil a memorial to the Parkland shootings this weekend.

Manuel and Patricia Oliver's son, Joaquin, was killed at Stoneman Douglas High School, and I spoke with them just before air time.


COOPER: Patricia, when you first heard what had happened in El Paso, I'm wondering what went through your mind. I've talked to families who have lost children in mass shootings before, and they have told me that every time it happens somewhere else, it really -- it just brings it all back.

PATRICIA OLIVER, MOTHER OF PARKLAND VICTIM: It hurt me the most, because, you know, it's like the situation is keep going and going on. Really, us, as parents, we've been trying our best to keep the voice out there and make a difference, and still these tragedies are going on, very awful.

COOPER: Manuel, you'd already planned to be in El Paso today, in part, to spread the message about gun violence. Is that right?

MANUEL OLIVER, FATHER OF PARKLAND VICTIM: Correct. And let me remind you that today's Joaquin's birthday. So, that was the main reason why we were planning to be here.

COOPER: How old would Joaquin have been today?

P. OLIVER: Would be 19 years old.

COOPER: Can you just tell us a little bit about Joaquin, I just -- especially on his birthday? What was he like?

P. OLIVER: Well, Joaquin was a very kind kid, and he was always caring about others. He has a very special relationship with little kids. And that's why when we were invited to come here to El Paso to help (INAUDIBLE) preparations for families. We decided that it was a very good way to honor his birthday. And that's why we are here.

So, what we are doing now is representing Joaquin here, because physically, he is not with us, but mentally and emotionally, he is always with us.

COOPER: What kind of advice would both of you give to, you know, to the families whose lives, tonight, have now been forever changed? It's a particular kind of grief, the grief of somebody who has been through and survived, you know, who's lost a loved one in a mass shooting.

[20:55:07] What do you tell people tonight who are going -- suddenly going through that grief now?

M. OLIVER: I think that we need to react in an unusual way. I can tell you, Anderson, what's going to happen here in the next 10 days, someone is going to send white crosses. Then, someone is going to send balloons and teddy bears and little stones with beautiful sayings and readings in it.

That's going to happen for the next 10 days, and the next 15 days, you're going to see a lot of vigils. And that's what happens every single day we have a shooting. This is becoming a tradition, more than a tradition. We have a template for these situations. So, my only advice to these families is to raise your voices. This is not something that we should just forget and move on with our lives. No, it's not.

We need to start doing something. My son needs a voice, and here we are. We are still Joaquin's parents, and we're going to be Joaquin's parents until the last day that we are here. Those people that lost their loved ones yesterday, in Ohio, here in El Paso, need to become the voice of their loved ones. That's my advice.

COOPER: Patricia?

P. OLIVER: Well, I'm also inviting every single one to make a call to action. Because this is an epidemic that is keep going and going on. And this is something that we all of us have to take care about it. This is something that you don't have to say, OK, who's next? How come? We cannot admit that, we cannot accept that.

So, my call to every single one who is watching us today is to take action on what is have to be done. We have to finish this situation. We have to raise our voices. We have to go and vote. We have to be involved. This is the only way we can make a difference.

COOPER: Patricia and Manuel, I appreciate talking to you and thank you for sharing a little bit of Joaquin with us tonight. Thank you.

P. OLIVER: Thank you.

M. OLIVER: Thank you. Take care.


COOPER: A great deal to get to on this special Sunday edition of 360, just ahead, the very latest on the shootings in both El Paso and Dayton. I'll speak with the mayors of both those cities.