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Two Mass Shootings 29 Killed; Police: 9 Dead, 31 Injured in Dayton Shooting; Nation Wide Scouring For Mass Shouting; Authorities Believe El Paso Gunman Posted Racist Manifesto Online. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 4, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN's Breaking News.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Two mass shootings 13 hours apart less than a week after the last mass shooting. 29 people dead many more wounded lives changed forever. City of El Paso, which recorded just 23 murders last year, saw 20 in a single incident. One that is being treated as domestic terrorism with white nationalists overturns. A gunman at a local Walmart in Dayton, Ohio, mean time nine killed at a popular night spot, we with our Ed Lavandera who is in El Paso. Ed, let's talk about the latest you've learned.
EL LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, tonight across the City of El Paso, a number of vigils being held. We are here at a sports complex on the Far East side of town. This is a vigil especially poignant because out in front of that Walmart store was a group of a soccer team, a young kid's soccer team, ages 6 to 10.
It was a group of about five kids there with their parents. They were raising money for their soccer team when the gunman opened fire. We interviewed couple of the coaches that came racing to the scene a little while ago. Anderson, they described those moments of how these parents trying to block the shooter from these children, giving those young children a chance to escape.
Those children did escape but those three parents are fighting for their lives in area hospitals tonight. That's what brings all of these people here you see behind me to this vigil, to pray for those three parents that are in the hospital tonight, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, talk about the latest that we know about the shooter whose name we're not using just because we don't want -- frankly, history shouldn't remember this person's name. But what do we know about the beliefs of this person, the motive?
LAVANDERA: There's significant news on that front tonight. Anderson, that 21-year-old white male has been charged with capital murder. The district Attorney here in El Paso says that they will seek the death penalty against him and also federal investigators are pursuing perhaps federal hate crime charges as well. That's another avenue of this investigation that will continue here in the weeks ahead. That's significant development on the gunman today.
COOPER: And just in terms of the so-called manifesto that this person put on HN, can you talk about what was in that?
LAVANDER: This was a hate-filled diatribe, talking about his anger toward what he described as the Hispanic invasion of Texas. He wanted to come here and target Hispanic Americans at this Walmart. That's something that is not lost on the people gathering here at this memorial. What I hear over and over Anderson is they wonder how in the world this man could have gotten in that car, driven ten hours and not had second thoughts about what he was about to do.
COOPER: What are victim's families being told tonight about their loved ones?
LAVANDER: Well, that is the process we heard from investigators today is that all of the victims bodies that were at the crime scene have been removed. They have been taken to the medical examiner's office. That allows the formal process of the official notifications to begin going out. There are a number of people who had been waiting desperately for some 30 hours waiting for news of their loved ones that they lost touch with them.
Presumably, right now, that is in the process of happening for dozens of family members who have been standing vigil, waiting to get some kind of news. In the hours ahead and the next day or so, we will get a better sense of the names of the list of names of who died in this attack.
COOPER: Awful vigil, an awful wait for the families who do not have official word. Ed Lavandera, thank you very much. Just 13 hours later in a part of Dayton, Ohio, known for its night life, another mass killer struck. Police were on the scene literally within seconds, 24 seconds according to Dayton's Mayor. Still, it was long enough for the gunman to kill nine and wound many more. Randi Kaye is there for us tonight. So what's the latest you are hearing Randi?
[09:05:00] RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson we have been at this vigil here in Dayton this evening. It's just starting to break up. It's been going on about an hour. It's been a somber evening here in Dayton.
I could tell you that a lot of folks are talking about the police force here and the heroes that they are. When this shooting occurred at 1:05 in the morning, at this bar right here behind me, Ned Poppers that is when police jumped into action. As you said they took down that shooter within 30 seconds of him firing his first bullet.
We know that he came here with a 223 caliber rifle. He was also wearing a bulletproof vest we've learned today. We also know he was wearing a mask and he had a magazine full of ammunition. It wasn't just one gun police are now saying. It was two. They found a shotgun in his car which he never did get to use because they were able to take him down so quickly.
In all, as you mentioned Anderson, nine people dead 27 taken to the hospital many of them have been released. No life-threatening injuries to report. So that's good. But one sad and very bizarre twist here in this story is that police are now saying the gunman, one of the victims that the gunman took down was his own sister and a male friend who also came together with the two of them here overnight at 1:00 a.m. this morning was injured.
They are talking to that male companion, that male friend. They say he is -- they don't think he had any prior knowledge of this shooting. But his own sister was killed in this, his 22-year-old sister. And just getting to motive Anderson, they are still saying they don't have a motive but two law enforcement sources telling us here at CNN that there were writings that were found from a search warrant at this suspect's home that show that he did have interest in killing people.
Again, police are not saying anything about a motive. But Anderson, we have been talking to people all night here at this vigil. I want to introduce you to Donna Johnson who lost her nephew in this shooting. Donna, my condolences to you, all of us, we're so sorry for your loss. Can you tell me about your nephew?
DONNA JOHNSON, NEWPHEW KILLED DAYTON MASS SHOOTING: Yes. His name was Thomas McNichols, he was 25 years old. He was the father of four, ages 2 to 8. He was a gentle giant. Loved his family, loved his kids. He worked yesterday and just wanted to come out and have a nice time.
KAYE: And he was in line at the bar here behind.
JOHNSON: He was in line at Ned Peppers and got shot. Just waiting to get into the bar.
KAYE: And one thing you were telling me I know you are wearing a shirt here that says love. Love was something that he had a lot to give.
JOHNSON: He had lots of love. Every time he left the house, he always say, I love you. That was our thing. He never left nowhere -- whenever he said good-bye, it's always I love you.
KAYE: And he lived with you because he lost his mom?
KAYE: His sister?
JOHNSON: My sister. My baby sister and he was her baby boy.
KAYE: So you looked after him for years and now this?
JOHNSON: And now this.
KAYE: What will you tell his children?
JOHNSON: I will tell his kids, they had an amazing dad. They know that their dad loved them. He was -- he loved -- he was a loving family man. The kids know that he loved them. We are just going to always honor his memory in love. That's what we know to do. We love you. Coming down here tonight, I didn't know what to throw on. I found this t-shirt with love. It was just perfect with him.
KAYE: There was a lot of love in this area tonight and lot of hope. JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.
KAYE: Hopefully, this community Anderson is very strong. Those like Donna Johnson will be coming together and honoring those they lost and continuing to have hope for the future. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Thanks. Thanks Miss. Johnson for talking to us in the midst of her grief.
KAYE: Thank you.
COOPER: Moments ago the FBI issued a new Director of Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and Former FBI Supervisor Special Agent Josh Campbell joins us with that. Josh, explain what this new directive says?
JOSH CAMPBELL, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Anderson, we are learning new details about the federal government's response in the wake of the spate of mass shootings in California, here in Texas and then overnight in Dayton, Ohio. Two law enforcement sources telling myself and our colleague Evin Parus (ph) that FBI Director Chris Wray has ordered a nationwide threat assessment by the FBI's 56 field offices, the goal being to attempt to detect any similar threats that are similar to the recent spate of attacks based on the characteristics known to date.
We're also told that the FBI has established a 24-hour command group inside its operations center at FBI Headquarters to monitor all of the various threat streams coming into the FBI and local law enforcement. Now this comes after the FBI has deployed numerous resources around the country.
[09:10:00] CAMPBELL: We know that they sent forensic examiners to California. They continued to go through that scene right now where a gunman opens fire at a food festival. They are also assisting authorities in Ohio in response to the attack overnight in Dayton, Ohio. And here, we are being told by our law enforcement sources in El Paso that the FBI is sending some 20 forensic examiners to go through the Walmart behind me to process this crime scene.
Lastly, the most heartbreaking and gut wrenching part of this operation, the FBI is sending a host of victim witness specialists here to El Paso to work with the family members who have been impacted by another spate of violence involving a gun here in the United States, Anderson.
COOPER: Josh Campbell, I appreciate it. Thanks very much for being there along the lines of Josh's reporting I want to dig deeper into the motivation of the El Paso killer is known now and the trend that he embodies as you know in the so called manifesto this been attributed to him online, he makes reference to what he calls "The Mexican invasion of Texas". He uses a lot of other racist themes. The shooting is being investigated as domestic terrorism and it's far from an isolated case. According to testimony just a couple weeks ago from FBI Director Christopher Wray, there have been about a 100 domestic terrorism related to arrests since October with the majority tied to white supremacy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: I will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we have investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence. It includes other things as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP0
COOPER: Joining us now is Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. Mr. McCabe thanks for being with us. You say that there is no doubt that these domestic terrorist attacks are increasing. The numbers I think you've said are off the charts compared to previous years. How do you explain that?
ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: It's hard to explain, Anderson. Comparing the levels of arrests that the Director Wray referred to in his testimony with the sort of disruptions as we call them or arrests that we were making back in 2012 and 2013, when I was leading that division at the bureau, these numbers are very high.
100 arrests at a basically the midpoint in the year with plenty of months left in the fiscal year, which is the calendar by which the bureau measures that sorts of things. They could very well be at an all-time high by the end of the year a lot of different factors that could potentially be influencing that increase.
I can assure you that the analysts at the bureau will be analyzing each one of these events looking for similarities from event to event, looking at the writings and communications of these attackers, trying to piece together how these folks were influenced and what pushed them down that pathway to radicalization that ended with terrible tragedy.
COOPER: The Former Obama Homeland Security Official Juliette Kayyem was on earlier today and she said that she specifically falls President Trump for rhetoric that leads to this type of violence is it unfair to draw a line to like that? Do you think it's accurate?
MCCABE: Well, may be a little premature. But here is what I will say Anderson, we know for a fact that extremists of all sorts, they gather support, they become emboldened, they become more committed to their radical plans by exchanging views with like minded people.
Years ago, 25 years ago, when it was tough for these lone -- so-called lone wolf actors to build a community around their violent philosophies, today it's very easy because of places like HN and other places on the internet where extremists can gather. Not just trade techniques and tactics but also encourage each other to act. We know that extremists take a lot away from that communal interaction.
So it is not unreasonable to assume that when people in leadership positions in this country, political positions to include the President himself, when they use words and repeat terms and ideologies and refer to folks who are involved in this sort of activity as quote unquote very fine people, it's not unreasonable to assume that extremists are hearing those messages, are hearing that sort of validation from the President himself and becoming further emboldened in their plans.
COOPER: If this was international terrorism, an actor coming from overseas or a home grown jihadist terrorist with a link to a foreign group, would the FBI have more tools than they have for domestic terrorists? Is there something that needs to change in that realm?
MCCABE: Absolutely. If this were a matter of international terrorism, the FBI would have the full tool kit of classified and sensitive techniques that we use for international terrorism matters. So those are FISA Court Warrants and particular things that you can do to analyze communication and to build out that network around each one of your subject to understand all the folks that they're communicating with and how they might get support and what they are doing?
[09:15:00] MCCABE: Many of those tools and techniques are not available to subjects to investigators who are investigating subjects on the domestic terrorism side. Part of the reason for that is that domestic terrorism is not in and of itself an offense in this country. Although, it is defined in the Patriot Act, it is not a criminal offense. We still, unbelievably this day have no Domestic Terrorism Federal Offense in the United States. And that is something that needs to change.
COOPER: Obviously, there are concerns about freedom of expression, freedom of thought, people being able to express their beliefs, even if they are controversial beliefs. I assume that plays a role in a reluctance to move down the road of criminalizing -- in statutes criminalizing domestic terrorism?
MCCABE: It certainly does. By definition, domestic terrorism are acts of violence that take place in the United States for the purpose of coercing a population or influencing the government. Once you are having actors in the United States, those are folks who are protected by the constitution and whose speech and statements are protected by the first amendments.
There are sensitivities there that are not present when you think of a subject in international terrorism subject who is acting on behalf a foreign power or a foreign terrorist organization.
Nevertheless, we could criminalize domestic terrorism based on the existing definition in the Patriot Act. That alone gives you the opportunity to also criminalize supporting acts of domestic terrorism. So, much in the same way on the international terrorism side, where we very frequently arrest people and charge them with providing support to foreign terrorist organizations.
You could do the same and investigate and obstruct and detect and arrest people who are supporting acts of domestic terrorism not groups in and themselves or philosophies or ideologies. Those are not things we investigate here. But acts of domestic terrorism if the find is a crime gives the FBI kind of a platform upon which to work that they currently lack.
COOPER: Interesting. Andrew McCabe, appreciate talking to you. Thank you.
MCCABE: Thanks Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up next, the Mayors of El Paso and Dayton talk about how they are leading their cities through these incredibly difficult days. And later what we are learning about the Dayton killer and what may have motivated him.
[09:20:00] COOPER: Big City Mayors see a lot in the course of their service. They prepare for a lot. All the preparation, all the simulations, all the drills a Mayor can take part in and overseeing, nothing really prepares someone for a mass shooting. Earlier this evening I spoke with the Mayors of El Paso and Dayton. I want to start with El Paso's Mayor Dee Margo.
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COOPER: I'm sorry we are talking under these circumstances. How is your community doing at this moment?
MAYOR DEE MARGO, EL PASO, TEXAS: We're going to survive fine. We will persevere. This is not going to define us. We have a history that goes back 350 years. We have weathered other storms. We are a unique community unique by natural, bilingual, bicultural community.
COOPER: Do you see this as a strike at that bilingual, binational community?
MARGO: If you read his treatise or whatever you want to call it and the fact that the federal government has said they're going to consider this a hate crime and we're going to do capital murder in the state of Texas, which will allow the death penalty, I would say it probably falls under those guidelines. Pure evil, any way you cut it. It's pure evil.
COOPER: The thing about El Paso is it's a cross border city. It's a very safe city. It's a great city. It's a safe city. When you heard that this had happened -- it's obviously something as a Mayor you thought about, you planned for, the police force planned for. But it's -- when it actually happens, what initially goes through your mind? What do you initially do?
MARGO: Anderson, I have never been -- I never had to deal with something like this. Yes, our police force plans for shooters of this type. But I got to tell you, as Mayor, I didn't plan for this person to come in from out of town. I'm convinced it never would have occurred within El Paso. But to come from out of town and to reap the destruction the horrific destruction on our community with 20 deaths that he has done and we have 26 people still in the hospital.
I'm just -- I'm not prepared. We're going to go persevere we're going to go forward. If this will, as I said, not define us. We have -- this community - you're right we're one of the say cities in the nation have been. We will continue to be. We're not going into hiding. COOPER: Mr. Mayor I appreciate your time tonight. I'm so sorry for what you and everybody in that city and so many families are going through right now. Thank you.
MARGO: Thank you, Anderson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, before the break you heard about Donna Johnson talk about the nephew that she lost in Dayton shooting. Describing him as a gentle giant because we out saying her grief is shared and not just by other families who saw loved ones taken from them it sounds like these even big cities become extended families.
We saw in Pittsburgh after the tree of life killings. We're seeing it now in El Paso and Dayton. The Dee Margo is seeing it now and so is Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP0
COOPER: Mayor, what's the latest information you have on those who were wounded and are in the hospital tonight? Do you know how they're doing?
MAYOR NAN WHALEY, DAYTON, OHIO: Anderson, we know that we have had 27 people that were injured and 15 have been released from the hospital. 12 are still in the hospital. So we don't have an updated status for them.
COOPER: In mass shootings like this, time obviously is the most critical factor. Most people are killed in the first six minutes. That's why law enforcement response time is so important according to the FBI. And Dayton Law Enforcement, they responded to the shooter -- is it accurate to say they responded within a minute or so?
WHALEY: Right. They had the shooter apprehended in 24 seconds.
[09:25:00] WHALEY: So I just I want you to imagine in 24 seconds the gun that the shooter had killed nine people and injured 26. The police department was on site. You can see from the video that we released at 4:00, police officers running towards the shooter.
The bravery of the Dayton police officers to take on a man with a gun that -- I don't know really why we have these kind of guns what's the need of them in our community in our country. Bu t then was souped up to make it shoot as quickly as possible and run toward that to stop that carnage is pretty amazing.
If the shooter would have been able to get into the building that he was attempting to, Anderson, we would have had hundreds of people die. It's only for the bravery and the luck of having the police in the Oregon district and that 24 seconds that we did not see that.
COOPER: Just to reiterate what you said it's extraordinary what damage this person was able to do, what slaughter this person was able to commit in 24 seconds. WHALEY: Correct. I'm sure -- I've heard from victims, people that were there. It felt like minutes. But when you watch the time, it was 24 seconds.
COOPER: There's a lot of people in this area on a weekend night. Not only had he been inside, but even if he had had more time outside, I understand there's a lot of people kind of just going to different bars in the area.
WHALEY: Yes. This happened around 1:05 to 1:06 in the morning. This is probably one of the busier times on the streets. It was a great night last night in Dayton. This area is Brick Street with tons of local businesses. It's one of the places to be in our region certainly, a centerpiece of our community.
It was named by the American Planning Association two years ago as the best business street bidding in the country. So very walk able, very connected. A place that's very diverse and everyone feels safe and wants to be there and a very safe place for our community overall. To see this and have this happen to the community last night is truly a tragedy for the families, the people injured, but our entire community.
COOPER: Yes and then Dayton, I mean, so many people know one another or are a close circle of friends. It must feel like so many people know somebody who was involved in one way or the other?
WHALEY: Correct. We're a big little city here. The connectivity, the grit, the resilience of our community is amazing. There's stories of how people who were neighbors, they knew folks. It was a connected city.
COOPER: Mayor Nan Whaley, I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm so sorry for your loss.
WHALEY: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: For your loss in the city. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, more on both shootings just ahead, including President Trump's reaction. What he says he has in mind going forward.
[09:30:00] COOPER: This afternoon, President Trump told reporters his administration has "Done actually a lot" when it comes to mass shootings. He added, "Perhaps more has to be done". The President's back at the White House tonight from a weekend at his New Jersey golf club. CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins me now from the White House. So what's the response been from the White House this weekend?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the President had been tweeting throughout the weekend but Anderson we had not seen the President on camera until he was leaving his golf club in New Jersey today.
When he spoke to reporters for about three minutes before getting on air force one where he praised law enforcement. He said that hate has no place in this country. But Anderson one phrase the President didn't use was white nationalism or white supremacy even though federal authorities have said they are investigating the shooting in El Paso as domestic terrorism.
Now the President said of course that his administration, as you noted he says, has done more than any other administration when it comes to addressing gun violence. But he says probably there is more to be done even though he didn't detail what exactly that is.
But we have heard from sources that the President and his aides and Justice Department officials do feel some sense of urgency to make some kind of proposals, present some kind of proposals when he addresses the nation tomorrow at 10:00 in the morning.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, it's undeniable that the President has been accused, certainly by Democrats, of emboldening racism. The shoot here in El Paso had a clear agenda that was racist, has President Trump -- has he addressed that at all? I know you said he didn't use those terms?
COLLINS: No he didn't answer questions when directly asked about white nationalism, either when he was getting on air force one or when he was back here at the White House when we were waiting for him on the south lawn instead, just going straight inside the White House.
And of course aides are downplaying, completely dismissing the fact that there's any kind of tie between what happened in El Paso and what the President has said, even though you are seeing these Democratic candidates, like you said, come out and tie the President's rhetoric directly to it.
With Beto O'Rourke saying that he believes the President is a white nationalist and what he says does contribute to things like the shooting at the Walmart in El Paso. Now Mick Mulvaney said he felt that was sick for any to blame the President for the shooting.
But of course, there are going to be questions and there are going to be a lot of scrutiny on the President's past statements and what he said about invasions of immigrants those of course looking at this manifesto from the shooter in El Paso.
There's a lot of similar language. So there are going to be questions going forward as these investigations move forward. The question is what is the President himself say about it when he is addressing the nation tomorrow morning?
COOPER: Yes, he did seem to kind of mention mental illness as something he seemed to focus on in the El Paso shooter.
COLLINS: Yes. He mentioned it several times as he was speaking with reporters. He said he believed these were mental health issues even though he didn't what is, he believes they should do about that. And that echoes what Mick Mulvaney said earlier this morning during an ABC interview. So it seems to be that's something they are focusing on here at White House in the wake of these shootings.
The question is what does the President do about addressing gun violence? Does he favor any restrictive gun measures? As we've seen before where the President said behind closed doors he was in favor of universal background checks or raising the age to buy certain weapons? Does he stick with this like he did that time where he then backed off after he met with NRA leadership here at White House?
[09:35:00] COLLINS: Or is that something the President does try to move forward with in the wake of these two deadly shootings within just hours of each other?
COOPER: Yes, it seems to be dependent on who he is in the room with at the time. Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much. We'll see you tomorrow 10:00 the President's speaking. Up next, we will look into the background of the Dayton shooter killed by police as we reported, less than 30 seconds we're told by the Mayor, after he began firing.
COOPER: There's certainly a lot we know and a lot we do not know about the shooter in the Dayton killings. CNN's Chief Investigative Correspondent Drew Griffin is there for us tonight. So, I understand you interviewed at least a half a dozen students who went to high school with this shooter several years ago. Talk about what they had to say.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We can tell you as a high school student, the shooter here had threatened a kill list to several students in his high school class, classmates. At least four students who say they were told by school officials at the time that they were on these lists, Anderson, describe it as a kill list for boys, a rape list for girls.
Girls who apparently turned down his advances were also faced with threatening language from the shooter. One man said -- told us he that was on a school bus, he rode the school bus with the shooter and said during his sophomore year, he actually was on the bus when police boarded the bus, came down the hall of the bus and took the shooter off, arresting him. He disappeared for about a year.
[09:40:00] GRIFFIN: Eventually did come back to school. It was during that time when this talk about these kill lists came forward. Students described him as being very threatening. At one point one girl said he liked to point his fingers at people and pretend to shoot them. This again is when he was in his sophomore year. He did eventually go back to high school and graduate in 2013. Anderson.
COOPER: You said he came back a changed guy in what way?
GRIFFIN: According to the students, he came back and seemed to be changed. He was active in the band. He played the baritone. He was in several school plays. In fact, I looked at his yearbook. He was prominently featured in role playing in acting. Although he did like to listen to very strong, heavy metal music, he didn't seem to be bothering anybody. School officials told us this afternoon that he did graduate. Because it was six years ago, they did not have any records to share with us concerning this hit list or kill list. He did appear to be a changed person after he was taken out of school his sophomore year.
COOPER: After that incident in high school with the police and his arrest, was he on law enforcement's radar?
GRIFFIN: You know, as far as we know at this point, no. The Dayton Police Chief in his news conference says he was not on their radar certainly. We will, of course, be doing a lot more digging to see what kind of police interaction they had maybe during his high school years, if there was any more on this record in high school that he might have been having propensity to violence.
A lot more records that we need to check. I think also quite frankly, a lot more records that investigators need to check to determine exactly what kind of track record did this shooter have all along, which -- let's face it. It may have been some kind of a warning like we have seen in so many other cases. Anderson.
COOPER: Drew Griffin thanks very much. I want to get perspective from three law enforcement experts. James Gagliano Former FBI Supervisory Agent Charles Ramsey the Former Top Police Officer in Philadelphia and Washington D.C. both are CNN's Law Enforcement Analysts also with us, Phil Mudd Former FBI Senior Intelligence Advisor and CNN Counterterrorism Analyst. So you've got two mass shootings, James, in this short period of time. What stands out to you particularly with it in El Paso being investigated as domestic terrorists?
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure let's look at from the perspective of the last 17 years there have been 250 with the FBI close active shooter or mass shootings. During that period of time, 799 people killed. Just last year, 27 different events across 16 states, 85 killed. We had this horrific dual slaughter this weekend what stands out to me.
One other thing that the FBI looks at, in the most recent report was compiled us to couple of years ago and it looked at different pre- incident indicators meaning was there anything that we missed? Obviously in the Parkland shooting, we missed an actionable lead to get called into a call center. But was there any indication, something jump out?
Here is the basic makeup of all these active shooters. The FBI looked at 160 different incidents all the way between 2000 and 2013. 63 percent are white. 93 percent are male average age 37.8 years old youngest at 12 oldest at 88. Most of them, no criminal record and lastly, weapons they used. Most of them were purchased legally.
COOPER: Phil, it seems like a lot of these shooters -- people say, somebody snapped. Point to mental health and obviously mental health may be involved with some or many of these people. It doesn't seem -- it seems like when you look into the planning that went into some of these, there actually was a fair amount of planning, whether it was getting the weapons, coming up with a plan, writing a manifesto, reading about other shooters?
PHILIP MUDD, COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think that raises questions about what happens tomorrow and what kind of dialogue the President initiates. Look, there are some questions you could ask beyond tragedy and beyond offering our thoughts to the people who are the families of those who are lost or some practical questions you have to ask.
If there are these kinds of indicators in advance, and James was talking about these, are there red flag questions we need to ask about when you take a weapon from a person and can the President offer cover to police agencies across the country about when they decide that someone, even if they haven't broken a law, can't have a weapon?
Let me give you a second question. If people are online searching manifestos and communicating overseas, domestic terrorists who are not connected to an international terrorist organization, what kind of cover do you give to Silicon Valley and the FBI to look at people who are involved in domestic terrorism but not international terrorism?
[09:45:00] MUDD: There are lot of practical questions that we can ask moving forward Anderson that would be really helpful I think to Law Enforcement.
COOPER: Well, Phil that's one of the things that Andrew McCabe who was just on was saying that the FBI doesn't have the same tools to investigate domestic terrorism that they do to international terrorism.
MUDD: Heck yes, let me make this real basic. There are organizations that represent police across America. Major City Chief the International Association of Chief of Police let me cut to the chase. Here is the question I would ask them. You have tools on international terrorists. Let me give you one, search warrants. What kind of tools do you not have with domestic terrorists? Why do we not have them? Why can't we have the same kinds of search warrants for the KKK that we have for ISIS? That's the question I would ask.
COOPER: Chief Ramsey, in Dayton shooting, the shooter was killed at scene. I'm wondering just in terms of police response time -- the Mayor said it was like 24 seconds. It's obviously in a popular area, police were on the scene. Its incredible how many people he was able to kill and wound in that short amount of time. As far as response time, that's about as good as you can possibly get?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. I don't see how it could be any better unless you came upon it yourself on view. As we call it. That was in an entertainment district. A lot of cities have these kinds of areas. And on a Saturday night, Friday night, it's very common to have extra patrol units down there, particularly when it gets near time for the bars to close because you have crowds. You have in some cases intoxicated people. You have a lot of issues that come up during that period of time.
Fortunately, they were deployed in that area. When they saw and heard the shots and then saw the shooter, they were able to react immediately. My hats off to the Dayton Police Department, not only with how they responded to the shooting, but also the transparency the Chief showed at his press conference.
There was a lot of things he couldn't say, obviously. But that's the first time I have seen a press conference this close after an officer- involved shooting where he is showing the videotapes, he is giving the names of the police officers, he is laying out the time line. Earlier they had identified the victims. I don't know how they could have done that any better. I think they really set a new standard when it comes to handling these kinds of incidents.
COOPER: All right, we are going to take a quick break. We are going to continue this discussion right when we come back.
[09:50:00] COOPER: We're talking tonight about a phenomenon that is no longer a rarity in this country certainly but is an stated defining characteristic of this country something that is now touching nearly every community in red states and blue states and big cities and small towns. It's also an evolving threat.
Back now with James Gagliano, Charles Ramsey and Phil Mudd. James in this one the fact that the FBI is talking about this as domestic terrorism in El Paso, does that change the way the investigation is handled?
GAGLIANO: Great question. So there's two ways of looking at this, the JTTF we're all hear that phrase --
COOPER: Joint Terrorism Task Force?
GAGLIANO: Absolutely. They will handle the domestic terrorism piece of this. And then the Civil Rights Division will also look at this concurrently as a hate crime. Now, FBI Director Wray has recently testified. We have about 5,000 open FBI terrorism cases. 4,000 them are international terrorism. About 900 are domestic terrorism. What do we mean by domestic terrorism?
One, racially motivated, two anti-authority, anti-government, three animal rights or environmentalists and then four anti-abortion. This clearly looks like homegrown violent extremism, white supremacy. In April the Director testified in front of Congress and these were the two words he used to describe and Anderson, persistent and pervasive regarding the threat.
People suggest well maybe this is just anecdotal may be we're just sensing it because we're talking about it more. But this is a persistent and pervasive threat and the FBI is taking it seriously.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, Phil, Andrew McCabe again who was just on was saying that when Christopher Wray testified that Andrew McCabe was saying the numbers that Chris Wray was talking about is a big jump from what it was in the past? MUDD: It's not just the numbers. I agree with Andrew I served with him
15 years ago. It's not just the numbers it's how we have to look at the evolution of this which in some ways is an opportunity for the FBI.
If you look at the past seven, eight or nine years this is not just this individual will look like he's operating in isolation. It's not just whether the individual operates in isolation. It's whether the people are talking online? It's whether his manifesto includes language from other manifestos he researched.
I guarantee you there are people tonight overseas who are looking at the tactics that were used to determine whether they want to attack in the same manner. My point is the FBI has an opportunity to look at this and see are there online activities including informal networks that we can study over time to determine whether we can follow and find people who will do this in the future. This is getting more international, Anderson. That's one of the pictures here.
COOPER: Charles, what do you make of you know, the idea of empowering the FBI to investigate domestic terrorism in the same way they can international terrorism? The counter to that is freedom of speech and freedom of thought and you know it could be a slippery slope of Law Enforcement looking into groups based on their ideas?
RAMSEY: Yes, well I mean, but it can be a slippery slope. We need to have the right people in the room to work this through so that when they do pass a law, it does have to safeguard to avoid any kind of abuse. I also want to add one other thing if I may.
They've had three horrific incidents in the past week actually beginning in California, of course Texas and now Ohio. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the problem of gun violence in this country goes way beyond just the mass shootings. We lose more people every day in this country to gun violence than we lost during these three episodes.
Chicago, for an example, from Friday to Saturday to Sunday morning, three dead 37 wounded. I mean, it's ridiculous. And that's just one city. So those lives matter, too. I'm not trying to minimize the tragedy there at all. When we take this on, we've got look at it more than just looking at the mass shootings and domestic terrorism and those things. We have a serious problem on our hands. I think it's a national emergency. Hopefully the President recognizes that because he needs to really do something about it.
[09:55:00] COOPER: Now, -- point out a lot of deaths from guns related to suicide, as well which often doesn't get talked about. James Gagliano, Charles Ramsey and Phil Mudd, thanks very much. When we come back, the only names the matter in all of this the ones whose lives were taken. Remembering them where the focus should be tonight?
COOPER: Before we go, I want to express our sympathy to all those in Dayton and El Paso tonight and certainly in the days and weeks and months ahead. The El Paso police say they are still in the process of notifying all the families of the 20 people killed at the Walmart. They won't officially identify any of them until that is done. We do know some names tonight so we remember, Jordan, Andre and Shando both were killed Saturday as they shopped for school supplies.
According to her family, Jordan used her body to protect her 2-month- old son Paul. Paul survived. We also remember six Mexican nationals who died in the El Paso shooting. We don't yet know their names. There are 12 others who were killed in El Paso and we remember them as we wait for authorities to announce their names.
Tonight we remember these nine victims in Dayton, Ohio who ranged in age from 22 to 87. We remember Lois Oglesby, Megan Betts, the sister if the gunman. We also remember Sayid Saleh, Derek Fudge, Logan Turner, Nicholas P Cummer, Thomas McNichols, Beatrice Warren Curtis and Monica Brickhouse. 29 lives taken in two places too soon too many families changed forever.