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AT THIS HOUR
Dayton City Commissioner Jeffrey Mims (D) Discusses Trump's Visit to Dayton after Mass Shooting, Divisions over Gun Control; FOX News Host Ignores Rise in White Supremacist Violence, Falsely Claims the Problem "Is A Hoax"; Dayton Victim Leaves Behind 2 Young Daughters. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired August 7, 2019 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR & CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Do you sense, as you hear a small handful of Republican voices, for instance, the congressman, who represents this district, Mike Turner, whose daughter was across the street when the shooting happened --
JEFFREY MIMS, (D), DAYTON CITY COMMISSIONER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- come out in support of, say, a ban on assault weapons, background checks. When you hear a minority of those voices, do you sense the political tide turning? Or are we going to be back -- and our viewers, I bet some that are at home are shaking their heads right now saying, we've been here before.
MIMS: Yes. And I hope not. I think the think with Turner, I did call his office this morning to let them know that I was very appreciative of his movement in that particular direction. So again, I gave them accolades as far as it's concerned. I'm sorry it's taken so long.
I wish, if you will, that some of those individuals who are making those decisions at these different levels could have been here Sunday morning at the convention center with Commissioner Shaw and the mayor and myself to hear the cries of those individuals being notified of the loss of their loved one.
SCIUTTO: Listen, I imagine the pain you experienced.
Finally, because the president's on the ground here now, the president has said in the past, I'd consider this gun control measure or that gun control measure, then he's backed off. On his departure to Dayton, he then raised the possibility of background checks. Do you trust he'll follow through with leadership on this?
MIMS: Well, you know, we haven't had any evidence of that so far. These things have been said. He's good at speaking for the moment. And after that moment has passed, no action happens.
He can, by virtue of his office, through executive order, make a lot of things happen tonight. In the morning, we can wake up --
(CROSSTALK) SCIUTTO: He's used the power of that pen before for a lot of other stuff.
MIMS: We can wake up in the morning to have some legislation, some actions in place to minimize these situations right now. But he's chosen not to do that, just to make noise. He talks about not wanting to be political, not wanting to be an opportunist. That's all he's displayed throughout his career.
I think he's very confused about the purpose and responsibility he has as the president of these United States.
SCIUTTO: Looking to test his actions, not words for a whole host of lawmakers.
Commissioner Mims, I appreciate your time. And I'm sorry for what your community has been going through.
MIMS: Thank you so much. We appreciate you.
SCIUTTO: We should note that President Trump now on the ground in Dayton. He's about to visit a hospital in Dayton where some of the victims of this shooting are now being treated, the Miami Valley Hospital.
As you can see there, there are protesters outside there ready to greet the president with that familiar phrase, "Do something." We've heard that repeatedly. That's the demand from people in Dayton today.
Stay with us.
[11:37:22] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Showing you live pictures here of Dayton, Ohio. President Trump is on the ground in Dayton right now. He's on his way to Miami Valley Hospital.
This is the scene near the hospital. Protesters outside basically greeting the president as he's heading to the hospital. He's going to be meeting with hospital staff and potentially some of the victims who are there who have been treated at the hospital since the horrific shooting over the weekend.
After that, he will be then flying straight to El Paso, Texas, this afternoon.
The White House says that the president wants to grieve, pray, and offer condolences to all of the families and the entire communities that have been impacted by these horrific tragedies.
The motive in Dayton still unclear. The motive in El Paso, though, appears to be crystal clear, according to law enforcement, hate, hate of Hispanics, hate of immigrants. Said another way, white supremacist ideology. But that's not what you would have heard on FOX News last night.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX HOST, TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT: White supremacy, that's the problem. This is a hoax. Just like the Russia hoax. It's a conspiracy theory used to divide the country and keep a hold on power. That's exactly what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: He's calling the findings of the FBI and Texas law enforcement a hoax. On national television. It has to be called out.
CNN's Daniel Dale fact-checking all of it for us. He's joining me right now.
Daniel, 22 people are dead in El Paso. Law enforcement have said that the shooter has been -- said the shooter have been clear about the motivation. They have the shooter and say the shooter's motivations are very clear behind this attack. What are you finding?
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: I'm finding what should be obvious to anyone who saw what happened in El Paso. Tucker Carlson either has no idea what he's talking about here or is actively deceiving his three million viewers a night.
You don't have to trust me on this. You don't have to trust CNN on this. Listen to what FBI director Christopher Wray said a couple weeks ago to Congress.
BOLDUAN: I don't think -- oh, I don't think we have that sound byte.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Through the third quarter of this fiscal year, had about, give or take, a hundred arrests in the international terrorism side.
But we've also had just about the same number -- again, don't quote me to the act digit -- on the domestic terrorism side. A majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:40:05] DALE: So, Kate, the FBI certainly isn't playing down the threat of jihadist terrorism, but it's also making clear over and over again that white supremacists or white nationalist terrorism is a serious and growing threat. All of the data bears this out.
The Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at Cal State, San Bernardino, found that 17 of 22 extremist homicides last year were committed by white supremacists compared to just one committed by jihadists. The Anti-Defamation League, another group that monitors these issues,
found 18 of 34 domestic extremist killings in 2017 were committed by white supremacists compared to nine from jihadists.
The Government Accountability Office tracked domestic extremist killings after September 11th, up through 2016, and found that 73 percent were committed by the far right. Not all of these people were white supremacists, but many of them were.
And they list them. I have a list here. A white supremacist skin head murdered an African-American woman. White supremacist shot and killed two at a Jewish community center. Neo-Nazi murdered a gay man. White supremacist murdered a Hispanic man at a convenience store after argument. White supremacist murdered Lubbock, Texas, police officer. The list, Kate, goes on and on.
And I'll just point out in closing, even President Trump has acknowledged that white extremism is a serious problem. His own national counterterrorism strategy last year, has his name and signature on it, talks about the threat posed by a Neo-Nazi group in the United Kingdom that's been in communication with like-minded people in the United States.
So to make the claim that Tucker Carlson made, you not only have to ignore 22 people killed in El Paso, you have to ignore law enforcement and President Trump himself.
BOLDUAN: And it's just a remarkable thing.
Look, it is always an important moment to have an opportunity to point out the facts as you have them, Daniel. It's always worthwhile to point out when the threat like this is on the rise and the facts and figures are actually found. The fact it needs to be fact-checked, it is like we're living in a two-plus-two-equals-five reality on a show that has a huge audience. That also comes with responsibility. At least it should.
Thank you, Daniel. I really appreciate it.
DALE: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Quick programming note for all of you. Just dovetailing on this conversation I'm having with Daniel right now, this Friday, CNN's Fareed Zakaria investigates the reasons why white supremacy is on the rise. It is a CNN special report called "STATE OF HATE." It airs Friday night at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Still ahead for us, two young girls in Dayton, they lost their mother in Sunday's shooting. One of them is only 7 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERECIA (ph) JAMES, MOTHER OF DAYTON SHOOTING VICTIM LOIS OGELSBY: She wants her to come down. She knows she's in heaven, but she wants her to come down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Lois Ogelsby is among the nine people who were killed in Dayton. Two friends who tried to save her before she died, they join us next.
[11:47:26] SCIUTTO: Let's talk about the victims for a second here. Everyone has a story. Each one of them leaves behind loved ones.
Among the victims in Dayton, a young mother. She was enjoying a night out for the first time since giving birth to her second child. Lois Ogelsby, just 27 years old.
Her mother told CNN's Randi Kaye she was able to call her boyfriend after being shot. She thought her injuries weren't that serious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How did you find out what happened?
JAMES: We were asleep, and her boyfriend called and he said, mom, Lois FaceTimed him. He said she said she was grazed by a bullet and she said, babe, come and get me. He said, no, you need to go to the hospital. She said, no, I need to get to my kids. And then that was it.
KAYE: So she was able to FaceTime?
JAMES: She FaceTimed him.
KAYE: Her boyfriend, after she had been shot?
JAMES: Yes, she thought she was grazed. He said she said, I've been grazed by a bullet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The margin between life and death in these things is just inches. I'll let you know how we know why.
Brittnie Hollingsworth and Erica Kirksey were out with Lois on Saturday night.
If I could just show video of you guys together, virtually, where we're standing now, when she was shot in the head.
Tell us about those moments here, the fear and what happened after.
ERICA KIRKSEY, FRIEND OF DAYTON SHOOTING VICTIM LOIS OGELSBY: We were just trying to have a good time. We had spent most of the evening with her. It had been a while since we all had got together, due to her having a baby and everything. We were just trying to have a good time.
Her and Brittnie had been together, and I met up with them at a local Mexican restaurant. We ate, had drinks, had a good time. Later on, we met up at a hookah bar. Then from the hookah bar, we came down here. We got down here at 1:03 a.m., and shots were fired at 1:05.
SCIUTTO: And you were both next to her.
BRITTNIE HOLLINGSWORTH, FRIEND OF DAYTON SHOOTING VICTIM LOIS OGELSBY: Yes.
SCIUTTO: It's only by the grace of God that you weren't hit as well.
[11:50:00] HOLLINGSWORTH: We had parked across the street. We came across the street over here. We was walking down. We were actually on our way to Blind Boy's. He came out of the alley where Blind Bob's is.
SCIUTTO: That's the bar just up here?
HOLLINGSWORTH: Right. And he shot down the sidewalk. We turned around. We took off running. She fell. I thought she fell because she had tripped. At that point, I grabbed her hand and said come on, Lois, we have to go. They're still shooting. I kept running with her, holding her hand so I didn't lose her.
I took us inside the Tumbleweed. At that point, she was like, Brittnie, I'm hit, I'm hit. I took the time to look at her. I think she was leaking blood from her head. That's --
SCIUTTO: She was conscious, she was talking to you?
HOLLINGSWORTH: She was. She thought she was grazed.
SCIUTTO: In the moments after this, she was talking about her children?
HOLLINGSWORTH: She wanted her kids. She called her boyfriend on the phone. She said, I want my kids. I need my kids. I want my kids. I got on the phone with him and said, she needs her kids, you need to get down here. She just got shot in the head. She was grazed. Guy took his shirt off for me, and I applied pressure to her head and she started losing consciousness at that point.
SCIUTTO: As we were standing here, just moments before we came on air, we heard a loud noise and I think it was brakes of a truck but you both flinched.
SCIUTTO: I can tell the feel was still there.
HOLLINGSWORTH: Traumatized. Absolutely traumatized.
KIRKSEY: You just didn't expect this to happen and you didn't realize how bad it affected you after because how often are we confronted with a mass shooter, you know, who is shooting directly at you and you don't have a choice but to run for your life.
SCIUTTO: Did you know what was happening when you heard those sounds?
KIRKSEY: We had no idea.
HOLLINGSWORTH: We hadn't been here that long. We pulled up, got out of the car at 1:03 across the street here and started walking toward Blind Bob's. He started shooting at 1:05. We didn't even have a chance to get to our destination. He so happened to be coming out of the alley at Blind Bob's because we later found out he was down here with his family inside of Blind Bob's.
SCIUTTO: With his sister, who he killed as well in this.
SCIUTTO: I want to ask you this. I heard a lot consistently, as I've been standing here, outside what is still a crime scene, "Do something." You heard that chant.
This is your town. What do you want to see your leaders do? The president is here. If you had a moment to talk to the president, what would you say to him?
KIRKSEY: I wouldn't talk to the president because I would think that he would understand what we're going through. Not only me as a person but us as a community, you know. I just don't think that he will be able to help the situation.
It's really tense here right now. We're suffering and still recovering from the tornado, now this. And I just don't think he can help us right now.
However, I wish that things could be different. I don't know what those things could be. I wish that people like that killer couldn't get ahold of assault rifles. It shouldn't have been that easy for him to get that.
I know they said that his record was expunged from when he wrote that list. That shouldn't have been. If you wrote a list saying you were going to kill people, 10 years ago. Ten years later, we still need to know that. Because had we know that, maybe he wouldn't have been able to get that assault rifle legally. He got it legally. You know what I mean?
SCIUTTO: It seems so simple.
KIRKSEY: It does.
HOLLINGSWORTH: It does.
SCIUTTO: I don't know anybody that would disagree with that.
HOLLINGSWORTH: No different than when you apply for a job. You have to do a background check. When you're trying to purchase certain large firearms like that, they should do background checks, talk to his school, see what type of kid he was in school before he purchases the weapons, not after he does a whole mass shooting.
Now they want to talk to the school, they want to know, what was his history like, what was his mind like. They should do those types of things the same way when you interview for a job.
SCIUTTO: Too often, I'm always concerned in the days, weeks, hours after something like this happens, we move on, right? And you forget Dayton and Dayton gets drowned out and your friend's loss gets drowned out.
Tell us how her family is doing in the wake of this. She leaves behind two little children.
KIRKSEY: I think that her family is doing the best that they can do considering the circumstances. I don't know how it feels to lose a daughter or a sister, you know. I do know how it feels to lose a mother, so my heartaches for her children.
SCIUTTO: To lose their parent.
KIRKSEY: But I know her mother will be the best grandmother to those kids. They won't miss an ounce of love. The community has been so supportive to her family.
We were at her house the other afternoon and Dayton police --
[11:55:06] SCIUTTO: Now this.
KIRKSEY: -- the squad, everybody rolled past her house. They had banners up, saying "Dayton strong." They were honking their horn. There's really strong support.
SCIUTTO: Listen, I'm sorry. First of all, I'm happy you're still standing because you were moments way from this yourself. Best
to her family and both of you. And I appreciate your taking the time, Brittnie and Erica.
We're continuing to follow the president's visit here to Dayton, Ohio. Protests building at the hospital where the president is meeting with officials and victims. We're hearing protests here at the scene of the crime, too.
Stay with us as our coverage continues after this short break.