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Hackers Test Vulnerability Of Voting Machines At Vegas Convention; False Alarms About Shooters Cause Panic Nationwide; Trump: Disgrace For Dems To Call Me A White Supremacist; Lawmakers Demand Investigation After Epstein's Apparent Suicide; AG Barr: Epstein Death Raises Serious Questions; Source: Epstein Was Taken Off Suicide Watch In Late July; Bloomberg On Warren: Enough With This Stuff. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 10, 2019 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for staying with me. You're live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.
Our breaking news, convicted pedophile and accused sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein, is dead by apparent suicide. And a lot of people including lawmakers and U.S. Attorney General, Bill Barr, want to know how it could have happened while he was in federal custody in Manhattan. Barr has already ordered the Inspector General to investigate and Nebraska Senator, Ben Sasse, says heads must roll. CNN's Polo Sandoval has more on Epstein's life and the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (off camera): The millionaire financier turned convicted pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein had been held in Manhattan's Metropolitan Correctional Center since his arrest in early July. He pleaded not guilty to federal charges after prosecutors accused him of sex trafficking dozens of underage girls some as young as 14. His request to await trial at his Upper East Side mansion was denied and he was ordered to stay at the federal facility. Prison officials say Epstein was found dead in his cell early Saturday morning. Shocking news for Epstein's accusers who have continued to speak out in the more than a month since his arrest.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC TODAY CO-ANCHOR: Did Jeffrey Epstein rape you?
JENNIFER ARAOZ: Yeah. He raped me.
SANDOVAL (off camera): Jennifer Araoz, who told NBC in July that Epstein had raped her when she was a minor at his New York mansion, tells CNN she was angry at news of his death. "I am angry Jeffrey Epstein won't have to face the survivors of his abuse in court. We have to live with the scars of his actions for the rest of our lives, while he will never face the consequences of the crimes he committed."
TEXT: " 'I am angry Jeffrey Epstein won't have to face the survivors of his abuse in court. We have to live with the scars of his actions for the rest of our lives, while he will never face the consequences of the crimes he committed.' Jennifer Araoz, Epstein Accuser."
An attorney for Epstein called for an investigation into Epstein's death and released a personal statement to CNN blaming politicians, prosecutors, judges, the press, plaintiffs, lawyers and jail workers for Epstein's death. "All these actors appear to bear some responsibility for this calamity. All seem to have a share of Mr. Epstein's blood on their hands. All should be ashamed of their behavior."
TEXT: " 'All these actors appear to bear some responsibility for this calamity. All seem to have a share of Mr. Epstein's blood on their hands. All should be ashamed of their behavior.' Marc Fernich, Jeffrey Epstein's Attorney."
Epstein's death comes less than 24 hours after thousands of pages of revealing documents were unsealed in a case from an Epstein accuser against one of his former associates. The 2015 defamation suit was filed by Virginia Giuffre who says she was underage when Epstein kept her as a sex slave for years flying her around the world to have sex with powerful men.
Among the men she claims she was trafficked to have sex with was Prince Andrew in 2001. A Buckingham Palace spokesperson denies her claims. In a response a spokesperson for Buckingham Palace said, "This relates to proceedings in the United States to which the Duke of York is not a party. Any suggestion of impropriety with underage minors is categorically untrue."
TEXT: " 'This relates to proceedings in the United States to which the Duke of York is not a party. Any suggestion of impropriety with underage minors is categorically untrue.' Buckingham Palace Spokesperson."
After getting news of Epstein's death, Giuffre's attorney tells CNN, "The reckoning of accountability begun by the voices of brave and truthful victims should not end with Jeffrey Epstein's cowardly and shameful suicide. We are hopeful that the government will continue to investigate and will focus on those who participated and facilitated Epstein's horrifying sex trafficking scheme that damaged so many."
TEXT: " 'The reckoning of accountability begun by the voices of brave and truthful victims should not end with Jeffrey Epstein's cowardly and shameful suicide ... We are hopeful that the government will continue to investigate and will focus on those who participated and facilitated Epstein's horrifying sex trafficking scheme that damaged so many.' Sigrid McCawley, Virginia Giuffre's Attorney.
This wasn't Epstein's first experience behind bars. He struck a controversial deal with Florida prosecutors to avoid federal charges in 2007 and the following year he pleaded guilty to state prostitution charges spending just 13 months in custody. He got work release privileges allowing him to go to his office 12 hours a day, six days a week. Epstein's legal team argued the plea deal was the reason Epstein should be prosecuted in New York. Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
CABRERA: Many, including law enforcement, credit journalist Julie K. Brown for the fact that Epstein was even arrested and facing charges. Now, Brown began investigating Epstein in 2017 and she refused to stop chasing this story. She has been relentless in exposing Epstein and finding justice for his victims.
And Julie K. Brown of the "Miami Herald" joins us now. Julie thank you. Just hours before Epstein's apparent suicide there was that massive document dump in this case we just went through some of these accusations that were revealed. Do you think it's a coincidence that Epstein's death happened so soon after the release of those documents?
JULIE K. BROWN, MIAMI HERALD INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I don't think anything in this case is a coincidence. I think everything that's happened, happened in the order, and as the evidence came out. I'm sure that he could feel things, kind of, closing in around him. He had known, I'm sure for quite a while, that the release of these documents was imminent. And, you know, that they were going to be pretty brutal.
And they were, I mean, they are, they tell a story about his sex trafficking operation, and how he and other people really went out of their way to prey upon vulnerable girls and young women for years.
JULIE K. BROWN, MIAMI HERALD INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: And, you know, so I think that I'm sure that he felt like this was going to be a really hard one to beat.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Julie, earlier I spoke with Mike Fisten. He's a private investigator. He worked with attorneys for Epstein's accusers.
And let me just read you a quote from what he said. He said, "Epstein lived his life not in a four by four cell, and he knew he only had two options, if he turned and cooperated against every person that indulged in his illegal behavior, and he became a witness against these people, or he was going to spend -- he knew he was going to get convicted, spend the rest of his life in a jail cell. And there was no way this individual, knowing who he is and how he's lived, was going to do that.
So let me ask you. You spent the last two years investigating Epstein. Would he be the type of person who would have killed himself without going to the Feds and saying, "I'll give you all these details about others involved or some kind of a plea deal?"
BROWN: I mean, it's hard to say what was really going through his head. I think that probably would have happened, he wouldn't have had a choice about that. I think that other people around him were probably going to cooperate or are probably cooperating. So even if he had started to name names or if he decided not to name names, it sort of got to the point now where the case was bigger than he is.
And, you know, especially with a U.S. Attorney Berman in New York, he was really determined, I think, to take this case as far as he can take it, and hopefully find justice for these girls. And, you know, when you have a prosecutor like that that is so dedicated, I mean, that's sort of the opposite of what happened here in Florida. You know, they they hid this case. They tried to sweep it under the rug here. And Berman from the outset was right out there in front of the cameras announcing that he was going to really do everything in his power to find justice for these victims.
CABRERA: And when Epstein was first arrested, you said there were powerful people sweating. Do you think those powerful people are breathing a sigh of relief today? Or based on what we're learning about the ongoing investigation, do you think they're actually even maybe more concerned?
BROWN: They're not breathing a sigh of relief. I know I wouldn't be. I mean, this is serious, very serious. And, you know, I just think that everybody who even, you know, looked the other way. Even people who weren't involved should really do some soul searching. And, you know, I just think, you know, we'll see where the evidence leads. But there were plenty of other people that knew about him and there were plenty of people that made a lot of money off of helping him.
CABRERA: Our thanks to Julie K. Brown. Angry reaction now pouring in from the legal community, the attorneys who represent Jeffrey Epstein's many victims angry, because they feel cheated and ripped off, because Epstein will never see the inside of a courtroom.
First, though, these words from Epstein's own lawyer. "I call for a full investigation into the circumstances surrounding Mr. Epstein's death. The public needs to know exactly what happened and why and how his custodians could have let it occur."
TEXT: " 'I call for a full investigation into the circumstances surrounding Mr. Epstein's death. The public needs to know exactly what happened and why and how his custodians could have let it occur.' Marc Fernich, Jeffrey Epstein's Attorney."
Now, from the victims' attorney, Lisa Bloom represents several Epstein victims and posted this statement from one of them. "I will never have a sense of closure now. I'm angry as hell that the prison could have allowed this to happen and that I and his other victims will never see him face the consequences for his horrendous actions. I hope that whoever allowed this to happen, also faces some type of consequence. You stole from us the huge piece of healing that we needed to move on with our lives."
TEXT: "REACTION TO EPSTEIN DEATH. 'I will never have a sense of closure now. I'm angry as hell that the prison could have allowed this to happen and that I and his other victims will never see him face the consequences for his horrendous actions. I hope that whoever allowed this to happen, also faces some type of consequence. You stole from us the huge piece of healing that we needed to move on with our lives.' Epstein Victim & Client of Lisa Bloom" David Boies, accuser Virginia Giuffre, and one other victim says, quote, "This is the end of one chapter, but only one chapter, of the battle to bring the sex traffickers to justice. Jeffrey Epstein did not act, and could not have done what he did, alone. Justice demands that those who acted with him also be held to account."
TEXT: "REACTION TO EPSTEIN DEATH. 'This is the end of one chapter, but only one chapter, of the battle to bring the sex traffickers to justice. Jeffrey Epstein did not act, and could not have done what he did, alone. Justice demands that those who acted with him also be held to account. David Boies, Attorney for two Epstein Victims."
And from Brad Edwards, the attorney for multiple Epstein accusers. "The fact that Jeffrey Epstein was able to commit the selfish act of taking his own life as his world of abuse, exploitation and corruption unraveled is unfortunate, yet predictable. While we engaged in contentious legal battles for more than a decade, this is not the ending anyone was looking for. The victims deserved to see Epstein held accountable, and he owed it to everyone he hurt to accept responsibility for all of the pain he caused."
TEXT: "REACTION TO EPSTEIN DEATH. ' The fact that Jeffrey Epstein was able to commit the selfish act of taking his own life as his world of abuse, exploitation and corruption unraveled is unfortunate, yet predictable. While we engaged in contentious legal battles for more than a decade, this is not the ending anyone was looking for. The victims deserved to see Epstein held accountable, and he owed it to everyone he hurt to accept responsibility for all of the pain he caused.' Brad Edwards, Attorney for multiple Epstein Accusers."
Epstein apparently killed himself at one of the most secure federal prisons in America. How could this happen? And what's next for the investigation? Our legal experts, including one who has been inside that same prison several times, weighs in next.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: We're back with our breaking story tonight. High-profile businessman and accused sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein, found dead of an apparent suicide in his Manhattan jail cell. New this hour, details on how Epstein spent his time behind bars in his final days. Sources telling CNN, Epstein met with his team of attorneys for hours at a time on a daily basis.
Epstein's death taking place at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, considered one of the most secure federal prisons in the nation. In fact, it's the same facility that housed notorious drug kingpin El Chapo and convicted ex-Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort for a time.
Lawmakers and the Attorney General are now calling for investigations into Epstein's death. I want to bring in CNN legal analysts and defense attorneys Joey Jackson and Sean Wu, who is also a former federal sex crimes prosecutor. Joey, first to you. What are your initial questions for jail officials responsible for watching Epstein?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Ana. Good to be with you. First of all, this is appalling. There are many questions. And, you know, you have to look and examine why someone who apparently was on suicide watch on the 23rd of July -- for which there was a suspicious episode, many of which believing it to be his suicide, of him trying to take his life at that time -- why he would only be on suicide watch for a period of six days.
Now, to be clear, suicide watch is an indication that someone has some serious mental maladies for which they need to be constantly observed. That means under the observation of everyone else. And so, why was it, even though you claim to have given him six days of daily evaluations, why was he allowed to get off of it thereafter?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Furthermore, once you go to the Special Housing Unit and it's an extra security unit, why wasn't he examined and checked upon? To be clear, I'm not blaming the actual correction officers who were in that facility. They do a tough job every day, day in, day out. My questions lie with the brass who made the decision to take him off suicide watch, so that he could kill himself, so that a measure of justice can be taken away from victims.
And so, it really begs the question of why was there not added security? You knew what he was facing. You knew the stakes involved. You knew the guy certainly is not used to prison cells and would be apt and inclined to take his life. And I just think that this should be -- had a lot more care and a lot more direction in terms of, who he was, who was looking at him, how they were looking at him and how he was being responded to? He should have never been taken off suicide watch, in my view, in the first instance, Ana.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Shan, your key questions?
SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I agree with those questions. It's appalling to me that somebody in custody, who is such a high profile defendant, would have been allowed to have had that time. Plus, I think get a cell mate as well. So that's very inexplicable.
I think it raises huge issues for the case. One thing I think that would have been helpful for the victims in the case is this idea of the asset forfeiture, that there could have been some compensation paid to them. I think it's very unclear what happens now with the forfeiture of his assets, with his death.
I mean, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals recently held in a somewhat analogous case that criminal restitution would expire if the defendant died. So I think that's an open question. But there still civil lawsuits pending as well. So I think there's some hope of getting some measure of justice.
But most importantly, I think Joey would agree with this, it really ratchets up the heat on following up on these other unnamed conspirators, should we find them, charge them, make them accountable, and get them to cooperate to expose what really happened.
CABRERA: Chan, you know, former mayor and former federal prosecutor, Rudy Giuliani, said that he believes Epstein's death makes those other cases more complicated or more challenging. Would you agree with that?
WU: I don't know if it makes them more challenging. I think there's a very strong paper trail. They've obviously already interviewed some of those people, and it's clear, if they were there and they helped, I don't think it's necessarily more challenging now.
If I were the prosecutor, I would have been very hopeful that Epstein would've flipped, because guys like that tend to be very narcissistic, always looking to cut themselves a deal. And I would had high hopes that he would have been a cooperating witness. But I think there is so much evidence, so much pressure on these other people that they're going to end up flipping and cooperating as well.
CABRERA: Attorney General, William Barr, is reportedly livid. And in a statement, he said Epstein's death raises serious questions. He also says he's working with the Inspector General who is opening a separate investigation.
TEXT: " 'Mr. Epstein's death raises serious questions that must be answered. In addition to the FBI's investigation, I have consulted with the Inspector General who is opening an investigation into the circumstances of Mr. Epstein;s death.' William Barr, Attorney General."
We've also heard from sitting members of Congress demanding answers. Senator Amy Klobuchar, for example, is saying the Judiciary Committee should call a hearing about this. Joey, is that necessary?
JACKSON: Well, I think it is. I mean, it's nice that he's livid, but he should have been livid before such that there would have been proper supervision and such that someone who you knew to be suicidal or should have known had the ability to take his life. And I just don't get it. So it's nice that you're livid, sir, but what are you doing now? And so, what does the investigation ultimately going to demonstrate? Some breakdowns in the system? We know there were breakdowns in the system. The real issue to me is getting compensation to the victims.
So let's go back to Chan's point, which is a very critical one. Whenever you're prosecuted, you get civil forfeiture allegations or criminal forfeiture allegations, rather, that is the proceeds of your crime get taken by the government. And so, now to what extent does that pursue? Do they now pursue civil forfeiture allegations?
The reason I raise these issues is because I think the victims deserve some measure of compensation. They're not going to get to see him in court. But now, certainly they should be compensated for what he did. So in the event the federal government pursues that, are they going to share any of the money recouped with the victims? That's essential to me. So, yes, have your hearings, determine how they were breakdowns, what
went on. But most importantly, I think they need to also, Ana, bring the other, right? Remember, he was charged with conspiracy.
JACKSON: You don't do a conspiracy by yourself. Other people were involved. To what extent did those aiders and abettors who allowed him to do this, they should be held accountable, number one. And number two, any moneys recouped by the federal government needs to be shared with people who certainly were the subject of his alleged improprieties.
CABRERA: That civil litigation is really just getting started. And, you know, I've read a bunch of statements earlier from attorneys of his accusers. One Los Angeles attorney today calling on administrators of Epstein's estate to freeze his assets and hold them for a victim's fund.
You touched on this earlier, Chan. I know Joey has too, but I mean, what is the impact of Epstein's death on those potential civil cases filed against him?
WU: Well, I think it complicates matters. I personally think it would be a great idea if the administrators of the estate did create some sort of a fund and put those assets aside. But they are going to have some conflicting interests.
SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, they have a duty of loyalty to the estate, whoever that may be. The estate itself to defend it. But I would also think that if I was one of those attorneys, I'd be thinking, I don't want to have this money just basically get dwindled away by defending case after case after case. It might be better to pool it altogether and say, hey, let's put together a fund. Let people take claims on that fund.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Right. Chan Wu and Joey Jackson, thank you, gentlemen.
WU: Good to see you.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you Ana, and you.
CABRERA: Coming up, I go one on one with former New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg. What's his take on the 2020 candidates? And does he have any intention of running himself? That answer next.
CABRERA: Former New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg, explaining a cheeky comment he made today about Senator Elizabeth Warren and her promise to hold big business and the super rich accountable. I asked him about that earlier and whether he has any plans to run for president. You made a comment after Senator Elizabeth Warren spoke that's picking
up on the Twitterverse. And I just want to play it for our viewers and give you a chance to clarify what you were saying. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I just said to Senator Warren on the way out. Senator, congratulations. It's a nice talk. But just remind you, if my company hadn't been successful, we wouldn't be here today. So enough with this stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Seem tongue in cheek there.
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: She did say that.
CABRERA: Well, go ahead...
BLOOMBERG: No, I did say...
CABRERA: ...where were you going with that?
BLOOMBERG: ...and when I talked to Elizabeth back stage, she thought it was funny as well. And she understood that somebody has to come up with the monies to support some of these changes that we want to make in our society.
I'm very proud that my company has made a lot of money. I give 100 percent of my company's earnings to my foundation. The foundation does things like sponsor this conference here in Des Moines, so that we can get all 20 candidates, including Elizabeth Warren, who is a very competent, very smart senator, as we all know.
I happen to disagree with her on some things, but I disagree with everybody on some things, different things in each case.
CABRERA: When is the last time you thought about running for president?
BLOOMBERG: Long time ago.
CABRERA: Have you completely ruled it out for 2020?
BLOOMBERG: I think -- the only thing I'm considering -- somebody suggested that I should think about 2024 and run then, so I'll consider that one.
CABRERA: Are you ready to endorse any of the 2020 candidates currently?
BLOOMBERG: I'm afraid I'm not. We'll see down the road. It's 15 months to the election. I think it's a bit premature, don't you? CABRERA: Senator Warren had a chance to react to Bloomberg, taking the stage and saying, he told her, quote, "If my company hadn't been successful, we wouldn't be here today. So enough with this stuff." Well, here was her response to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Look, I got asked in the forum about corporate responsibility and about the power that people have all across this country. And I believe people ought to be exercising their power. They're here to exercise political power and talk about how to hold Congress accountable. And all of their elected representatives at the state and local level and how to get a president that will fight to reduce gun violence in this country.
But they're also here to talk about the other ways they have power. And that is power to say to corporations, I want a corporation that lives values that are closer to mine. So a big corporation that's going to help finance the NRA is not where I want to put my money. Not in that kind of bank or a big company that's selling guns. Guns, assault weapons that are used to kill people. That's just not where I want to spend my money. I want to spend it with people who live -- I want to spend it with businesses that are living values closer to mine every day. And that's the power that every consumer has.
So I'm really glad to hear Moms Demand Action and every other group to say we're going to use our power as consumers to make our voices heard.
REPORTER: [Inaudible] such a political point here when there's so much [inaudible] on the subject matter.
WARREN: Look, I think we have a gun crisis. And when we have people gathered from all across this country to make this moment of sorrow into a moment of determination, and they're talking about how they can make change, I applaud them and I am honored to stand with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Coming up, hackers get their hands on U.S. voting machines, but it's OK. U.S. intelligence agents challenge them to do it.
We're live in Las Vegas for one of the biggest gatherings of hackers in the world, next.
[20:30:15] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Believe it or not, we are just 15 months away from the 2020 presidential election. And while that might not seem too far off, maybe it does seem far away, but you know how fast time goes. Much of the focus right now is on election security. DEF CON is a hacking convention going on in Las Vegas this weekend.
And just a few years ago, this event was a little known outside the hacking community. But since 2016, senators, congressmen, and secretaries of state are now showing up and they're listening. The goal is to make voting machines and the process more secure.
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan joins us now from Las Vegas.
Donie, hackers are pulling apart voting machines, trying to figure out how vulnerable they might be? What are you finding? Just how vulnerable are they?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Hey. You know, I think normally when we think of hackers, we think of the bad guys. A lot of the folks here at the convention this week in Vegas are good guys. They've taken a lot of voting machines and they've said to the U.S. intelligence community and to lawmakers and to the voting machine manufacturers, saying, "Hey, we are as good as the bad guys. Our skills, our skillset, we can do what they can do, but we want to tear apart these machines, show you how they're vulnerable so you can prepare the machines for the 2020 election. So there's a room in a convention center here in Vegas which is full of voting machines and voting equipment, and folks have just been running riot on them for the past few days.
When I asked, actually, the organizers where they got these machines, some of these machines, by the way, are still being used the same as the ones that's being used in U.S. states today. They actually got many of the machines on eBay. A lot of these voting machines that are still being used in the U.S. are available to buy on eBay, which is incredible.
CABRERA: That's a scary thought, when you think about people who have nefarious intentions being able to test out whatever on these machines.
Donie, the U.S. elections, obviously, very complex. There are so many people involved, you can't simply do a manual count. But if these machines are hackable, are our elections safe and are these machines reliable as a way to vote?
O'SULLIVAN: Well, some will see it as an advantage, some will see it as a disadvantage. Each state -- each state is responsible for elections in their state. So there's a whole plethora of different types of machines and systems in place.
Senator Wyden who I spoke to yesterday, who was here, he said, you know, one of the main things that he brought away from this is, is that a voting machine should just never be connected to the internet. He compared having a machine or equipment that's involved in voting connected to the internet as the same as throwing American ballot boxes on the streets of Moscow.
[20:35:03] Also, the DHS's Department of Homeland Security's top cyber official who was here also this week speaking with the hackers, said that we need to move back to -- we can keep electric machines, electric voting machines, but to have a paper backup, so they can be verified through paper.
CABRERA: I want to turn to the deep fake videos we've been warned about. These are clips created with artificial intelligence that can make people appear, or to do, or to say things that they never did. I know people at DEF CON were told that DNC chair, Tom Perez, was supposed to be there, but unable to make it so he decided to connect by Skype where he apologized for not being in attendance. Except he did no such thing. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM PEREZ, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Greetings, DEF CON. I'm DNC chair, Tom Perez. My apologies that I can't come to Las Vegas. It'll be something more subtle, like a slowed-down video, or even a deep fake of Tom Perez talking about cybersecurity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: There you go. That was not real, of course. The DNC wanted to prove a point. What do you know about that video?
O'SULLIVAN: So the guy you see on the left-hand side of that video is essentially controlling DNC chair, Tom Perez' face. That guy is Bob Lord who is a former tech executive who was actually hired by the Democrats after 2016 to really try and shore up their cybersecurity.
I think what the DNC is trying to prove here is that we saw misinformation run amok in 2016. They say this is the new wave, this is the next generation of disinformation. And you can imagine if it was to be used in the 2020 election for a candidate to make it sound or appear that they said something, that could be troubling.
We've also seen some fun -- there's, you know, fun use of this technology too, putting it on celebrities' faces, "SNL" characters and things like that.
But I think we've seen warnings from the U.S. intelligence community, just earlier this year, saying that America's adversaries, the likes of Iran, Russia, China, are looking at this technology and could use it in future disinformation campaigns against the U.S.
CABRERA: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, good to see you. Thank you.
O'SULLIVAN: Thank you.
CABRERA: He was the governor of Colorado during the mass shooting in Aurora. Coming up, I'll talk to presidential candidate, John Hickenlooper, about the nationwide debate right now on gun control and whether anything can actually get done.
[20:40:35] CABRERA: Have you ever had that feeling, that lump in your throat, that pit in your stomach, that awful question in your own mind, something bad about to happen? Maybe the trigger was something simple, a crowded place, a bulky bag, a stranger's hand and a waistband or sound they pop. Just filled you with a sense of dread. If you've ever felt like that, then maybe this would have been you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Running for your life, screaming, pounding on doors, crawling under tables in Times Square, because the sound of a backfiring motorcycle sounded like a gun to some people.
And maybe this would have been you too, caught up in the panic at a Utah mall because someone yelled "shots" at the sound of a sign falling over.
BELINDA FIGUEROA, EVACUATED UTAH MALL: We didn't know what was going on until somebody went in to tell that we need to leave the place. So we just basically ran.
CABRERA: Or imagine how you would react if you were with those shoppers at the Walmart in Springfield, Missouri when a man armed with a rifle and wearing body armor walked through the store and just started pushing a cart. He later called it a, quote, social experiment.
LT. MIKE LUCAS, SPRINGFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT: There were a lot of people hiding outside, behind these barriers and businesses, and it was pretty chaotic for a couple of minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: This panic, this fear, this paranoia, because we have seen the same grim headline over and over, at stores and churches, mosques and synagogues, malls and movie theaters, nightclubs and college campuses, elementary schools and food festivals.
In some cases, Americans have survived one mass shooting only to die in another. So, is it any wonder that Amnesty International, in various countries of the world now warned it may be too dangerous to visit the U.S.?
Joining us now to discuss, democratic presidential candidate John Hickenlooper who served as governor of Colorado during the Aurora movie theater shooting.
Governor, I'm so glad to have you with us tonight. People are afraid right now, they're afraid to go to the store, they're afraid to send their kids to school because they don't want to be next. As someone who led a state after a mass shooting, how do you lift people up during such grief and fear?
JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it is part of the job of being a governor or a mayor or a president. You become consoler in chief. And you have to, kind of, be where people are. And, you know, in a funny way, these shootings affect everyone, not just victims and the families of victims, but the whole community.
You know, when you've been through one of these shootings in your -- in your immediate community, it's almost like a form of trauma that when you hear of another shooting, you'll remember certain smells and certain sounds that will come -- it's not like a flashback, but it's a trauma that affects your life. CABRERA: Right. As governor in 2013, you managed to get universal background checks for all gun purchases. You got a high capacity magazine ban limit. But you got those laws without any Republican support. That obviously can't work on a national level. So what's it going to take?
[20:45:08] HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think, you know, you asked earlier, what do you do to lift people up after one of these shootings? We waited after the shooting in the Aurora movie theater, we waited for several months. I deflected all comments about what could have happened. Let's not draw conclusions, let's take time and mourn our losses.
But you're right, we could not get the NRA to compromise one moment. And they actually were aggressively warning Republicans that if you support universal background checks, which literally every Republican I knew, every businessperson, everybody on boards I'd served with, they all supported universal background checks. And yet, the NRA was so diligent and so focused that for a Republican crossed them and crossed the line and supported a universal background check initiative, they not only would never get funding from the NRA again, but they could be assured they'd have a primary opponent who was well- funded.
CABRERA: Right. And I mean, isn't that the situation we're dealing with now too? So again, I mean, how do you get past that? How do you break through that to actually accomplish it in a bipartisan fashion, if you can't just rely on one party to do it? HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think ultimately, we are a democracy, and I
think maybe we've gotten to the point where the rising tide of public sentiment is going to overwhelm the NRA. And I think when you saw a year ago, little over a year ago, that the Republican governor of Florida supported red flag laws and universal background checks, and now Mike DeWine, the Republican governor of Ohio, is embracing these more progressive gun safety measures.
You know, I think that's a -- that's a beginning of a tidal wave. And I truly believe that Mitch McConnell is going to have to address this issue when the Senate comes back in four weeks.
CABRERA: A number of your rivals in the 2020 race have pointed to the fact that the El Paso -- his fear of what he called an invasion is something he wrote about and that mirrored rhetoric the president has used and some have gone so far as to call the president a white supremacist or white nationalist. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Do you think President Trump is a white nationalist?
BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I do.
GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And we can no longer allow a white nationalist to be in the White House.
TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is a racist and white supremacist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think President Trump is a white supremacist?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: A few of your democratic rivals including Beto O'Rourke, by the way, have described President Trump as a white supremacist. Do you agree?
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unquestionably.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE : He is not only egging on white supremacy and white nationalism, but he is one himself.
ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Based on his words and actions, yes, he is a white supremacist.
TAPPER: Congressman Beto O'Rourke told me this morning that he believes President Trump is a white supremacist or a white nationalist. Do you agree?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do.
CABRERA: Governor, do you believe President Trump is a white supremacist or white nationalist?
HICKENLOOPER: You know, what I worry about even more is that he's not a white supremacist, but he's using the language of white supremacists and white nationalists. He's stoking the flames of racial hatred for his own marrow political benefit.
And I think that's worse than being a white supremacist. He's almost pretending to be one for political gain. That is against everything that this democracy stands for.
CABRERA: Governor, your communications director told CNN you spoke to Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, about a possible U.S. Senate run in Colorado. Are you thinking about ending your presidential bid to do that?
HICKENLOOPER: You know, I am 100 percent focused on my presidential run at this point. And I told Senator Schumer, I've told pretty much everyone, I feel like I am -- I'm the one person who's done what everyone else is talking about, that we've delivered near-universal health care coverage, we've beat the NRA with universal background checks. We got the oil and gas industry and the environmental community to create major methane regulations. I feel like I've done what other people have done.
And if you think, Ana, you go back to 1900, every time we've beaten an incumbent president of either party, it's been with a governor or a former governor. And I feel that's -- we're the ones who have to balance the budgets, we're where the buck stops. I think as soon as I start talking about Senate or some other possibility, not only do I get distracted but my team gets distracted. And I want to give a little more time and just be 100 percent laser focused on trying to get this message out, that I've done -- I've achieved the big progressive goals that Washington has been incapable of.
CABRERA: Fair enough. But would you rule it out?
[20:50:00] HICKENLOOPER: You know, at a certain point, we become -- I just become stubborn. And I actually haven't sat down and figured out when that is. I probably need to do that maybe this weekend.
But at this point, I keep very focused on what I'm doing every day with my team to try and be the next president of the United States.
I don't rule anything out. But I don't -- right now, I'm not even thinking about it. I mean, literally, not thinking about it.
CABRERA: Former governor John Hickenlooper, thank you so much for joining us. Good luck on the campaign trail.
HICKENLOOPER: Thank you.
CABRERA: We'll be right back.
CABRERA: From small-scale thrillers like "Psycho" to epic sagas like "Lawrence of Arabia" and even the big screen debut of "James Bond," "The Sixties" produced no shortage of iconic films. Here's a preview of tomorrow's brand new episode of "The Movies."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't make any rules.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, but you sure lived by them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody lives by them. Everybody is stuck with what is. Even them swamp animals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even that weasel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you calling me a weasel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm calming you a white man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sidney Poitier would often be cast in blatant sort of message movies of that era, but there's some exceptions like "The Raisin in the Sun" based on the Lorraine Hansberry play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm looking in the mirror this morning and I'm thinking I'm 35 years old, I'm married 11 years and I got a boy who's to sleep in the living room because I got nothing. [20:55:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raisin in the Sun was about integration. They buy a house in a nice white area. But the people in the neighborhood don't want them there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our association is prepared to buy the house from you at a financial gain to your family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lord have mercy. Ain't this the living God?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Poitier gets to show more range in Raisin in the Sun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess you'd help --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you mind (INAUDIBLE) you get out of here.
MIA MASK, PROFESSOR OF FILM, VASSAR COLLEGE: He's angry at the system, he's angry at white supremacy, he's angry at the lack of economic opportunity for black Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I want is to make a future for this family. All I want is to be able to stand in front of my boy like my father never was able to do to me and tell him that he'll be somebody in this world besides a servant and a chauffeur.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These were not stereotypical black characters, magical Negroes tor good Negroes who were there to demonstrate the ultimate good mainstream white society. He's playing a well-rounded three-dimensional character and, I think, he just builds on it from there.
CABRERA: The brand new episode of episode of "The Movies" airs tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
That does it for me tonight. I'm Ana Cabrera. Up next, CNN's Fareed Zakaria investigates the deep reasons why white supremacy is showing its face. Stay tuned for the special report, "State of Hate: The Explosion of White Supremacy."