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All Flights Canceled After Demonstrators Swarm Hong Kong Airport; Former Allies Turn on Yemen's Saudi-Backed Government; Closer Look at Saudi Arabia's Controversial Crown Prince; Prince Andrew Among Those Named in Epstein Court Documents; Interview with Ed Luce, Financial Times U.S. National Editor, Brexit and U.K.'s Place in the World. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired August 12, 2019 - 11:00   ET


[11:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But what we saw was well over 10,000 black clad protesters coming to this airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They're deeds have constituted severe violent crimes and showed the tendency of turning to terrorism.


BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: This hour, a cat and mouse game between the massive security hammer of China and its anvil in an increasingly restive

Hong Kong. With protesters making bolder moves, we look at what Beijing means when it describes this as a critical moment. We are in the thick of

it for you this hour.

Then --


ANDERSON (voice-over): Abroad, MBS has also helped wage a protracted war in Yemen costing the kingdom billions of dollars and seeing Yemenis suffer

destruction, famine and the worst cholera outbreak the world has seen.


ANDERSON: It's metastasizing to a war within a war, things so bad, so complicated in Yemen that even Saudi Arabia's closest friends, it seems,

are moving away from them. We'll tell you who a little later on.

And newly unsealed documents placing a spotlight on allegations of sexual misconduct laid against a senior member of the British royal family.

Details on that are ahead as our world to connect, hello welcome to the show, I'm Becky Anderson coming at you right out of London where it is bang

on 4:00 p.m. as we speak.

We begin in Hong Kong, a city deeply historically connected to here. Right now paralyzed. Thousands of demonstrators descended on the region's

airport on Monday. One of the busiest in the world leaving virtually every single flight grounded. Those massive crowds have since thinned to a few

hundred after swirling rumors of impending police action.

Meantime, Chinese state media posted a video of rows of armored vehicles in Shenzhen, a city bordering Hong Kong. The clear message, we are ready to

crush these protests.

Our senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman spend today in the thick of the chaos in Hong Kong at the international airport. Here is that



WEDEMAN (voice-over): An eye for an eye, furious protesters meted out their own justice Monday afternoon. Thousands streaming into Hong Kong

International grounding flights at one of the world's busiest airports.

Demonstrators say it's their response to a government that uses heavy- handed police tactics to keep control. This image of a woman allegedly shot in the eye by police with a non-lethal round galvanized their anger.

As the anti-government movement decries what it calls police brutality, the police points to increasingly violent acts against them saying that they

had to use a certain level of force to protect citizens.

And with this slickly produced video put out by state media, Beijing reiterated that it will send in its own forces if necessary, to deal with

who they're now calling radical demonstrators showing signs of terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Such violent crime needs a resolute and hard line crackdown showing no mercy in accordance with the


WEDEMAN (on camera): The cancellation of all departing flights from Hong Kong is a victory for the protesters and shows just how strong they are,

but it's also a serious blow to Hong Kong as a regional financial hub.

(voice-over): Hong Kong's government has already made it clear that threatening the city's economy is a red line that protesters should not

cross. But as protesters left the airport Monday evening, the call went out on social media to be back the next day.

Ben Wedeman, CNN Hong Kong.


ANDERSON: Senior international correspondent Ivan Watson is live for us in Hong Kong's International Airport now. Extraordinary scenes earlier. How

would you describe what you have witnessed? And of course, let's contextualize this.

[11:05:00] This is the latest in what has now been ten weeks of protests.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is clearly an escalation in this unprecedented campaign of civil disobedience. Here you

have the arrivals call, which still has thousands of the black clad protesters here. They are not obstructing some passengers still coming in

on flights.

But up here, this is the departures hall, and this is what they have succeeded in truly paralyzing because this airport, once a very proud

symbol of Hong Kong's efficiency, now has graffiti on it. Some of the slogans that reflect the anger of the protesters. It's been kind of wall

papered with their messages about allegations of police brutality and so on.

And then something I've never seen before, the check-in counters abandoned by airport workers, and instead, you have stranded passengers camping out

behind the computer terminals where ordinarily airline workers would kind of be checking people in. And there are many passengers that we've seen

and are coming up that simply don't know what to do. And I think one of the hardest things, of course, is when you see families with little

children perhaps stranded here for the rest of the night. This is -- some of the demonstrators are apologizing handing out beverages and food to

people, but the disruption and the confusion that this is causing in addition to the financial costs right now is incalculable -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Ivan, just blind you, the graffiti on the wall there in English, is there a message in that?

WATSON: Absolutely. As you heard in Ben's report there's a lot of anger that a woman was caught on camera losing an eye evidently in some of the

violence, many people accusing the police of being behind that. We're trying to get to the bottom of that unfortunate story, and it is the

accusations of excessive use of police force that has mobilized or triggered this escalation in the tactics bringing -- paralyzing the most

important international gateway to this former British colony.

ANDERSON: You've covered demonstrations around the world, Ivan. I just want to remind our viewers of some of those times. Hold on for one sec.


WATSON: The kids have been throwing rocks at them, the tear gas is coming constantly.

The violence has now spread to the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince. Angry locals have been gathering here. They're setting fire to tires in the


And people out here chanting fascist government and killer Erdogan -- referring to the Turkish Prime Minister.


ANDERSON: Just a glimpse of some of the work you have done over the years with us and other networks. From the Arab Spring to massive demonstrations

in Haiti and in Turkey, Ivan, how do the protests that we've seen in Hong Kong today and over the last couple of months compare, the energy, the


WATSON: It's all relative. For Hong Kong, they've never seen anything on this scale before, and confrontations of this nature before. Compared to

other places, Turkey, Egypt, Haiti, other countries, incredibly after 11 weeks of this, we haven't seen any loss of life due to people hitting each

other on opposing sides, law enforcement and the protesters.

There have been kind of these unwritten rules, but they are being broken with every passing week. It gets uglier and uglier, and, for instance,

last night I saw demonstrators breaking the windows of a police bus. I never thought I'd see that in the city. I also saw residents of a

neighborhood joining demonstrators on the street hurling abuse at riot police for firing tear gas that wafts into their homes and hits the elderly

and infants, and that is a worrying development, I think, it should be for the city's authorities -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. Ivan, thank you for that. Ivan is at Hong Kong International Airport.

Welcome to the city of expired tear gas, not the typical welcome at the airport, but that is Hong Kong today. An extraordinarily busy place with

some 74 million passengers passing through last year, over 200 destinations worldwide, and today all brought to a halt. As those hundreds of flights

are canceled, check-ins disrupted, planes grounded.

[11:10:00] I want to get into all of this with my next guest. He says, quote, to turn this situation around in the short-term, maintenance of law

and order must be the top priority. In the median term, the government must focus on addressing relatively less controversial socioeconomic


Andrew Leung joins me now from Hong Kong. He is an international and independent China strategist with nearly 40 years of experience in many

senior government positions in Hong Kong. What do you make of what we've witnessed today over the past 24 hours, and indeed these past ten or so


ANDREW LEUNG, INTERNATIONAL AND INDEPENDENT CHINA STRATEGIST: Well, I don't think that anyone in Hong Kong or anyone in the world, in fact, have

seen Hong Kong exploding like this ever. On several fronts, first of all, there is a true ground swell of public anger and discontent or

dissatisfaction against the way the government has been handling this very controversial extradition bill and leading to the possibility of people

being extradited to the mainland for trial.

But on the other hand, it is the last straw on the camel's back because there is a perception that the one country, two systems has been tilting

towards the one country rather than the values of the two systems. So the controversial bill ignites this whole ground swell of anger.

And then of course, the local political parties are having a field day, and then at the front line of these normally very peaceful protests --

protesters, are the militants and who resort to all sorts of violence and provoking the police, surrounding the police stations, vandalizing the

national emblem of the Beijing represented (INAUDIBLE) and furling facts calling for Hong Kong's independence.

So this worries Beijing hugely, and you're showing footages of the threatening kind of raid of armored cars across the border. Obviously,

Beijing has been rattled, but on the other hand, I think Beijing remains very, very cautious of the risks of deploying the People's Liberation Army

because that would mean the end of one country, two systems and the end of China's credibility.

ANDERSON: Sure, and that clearly is a concern to many. Beijing certainly calling this a critical moment. Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong carrier

warning its staff of quote, zero tolerance with Hong Kong protests in an internal memo to employees. Going on to say, and I quote here, there will

be disciplinary consequences for employees who support or participate in illegal protests. They say these consequences could be serious and may

include termination of employment. How big is the impact on Cathay here?

LEUNG: Well this comes on the heels of a recent announcement by Beijing against Cathay Pacific. Because there was a Cathay Pacific pilot who was

charged with rioting, and then he was given bail. Then immediately afterwards Beijing issued a statement saying that it would be a risk to

aviation safety if this pilot took part in the riotous acts and was charged and allowed to fly. And then the aviation authorities in Beijing will

forbid any kind of flights operated by Cathay Pacific. So this sounds a warning signal to the airline and hence this kind of directive internally.

ANDERSON: Sir, pleasure having you on, thank you.


ANDERSON: Extraordinary scenes at Hong Kong international airport earlier today. Still to come.


SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Saudi and Emirati troops vanished from the streets as the two nations saw their alliance

collapse around them on the ground.


ANDERSON: Shifting loyalties in war-torn Yemen. We'll hear from my colleague, Sam Kiley, as a new conflict takes hold.

Also, sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was connected to some of the world's richest and most powerful people and had dozens of alleged victims awaiting

justice. So how did jailers leave such a high-profile defendant unattended. Now the U.S. Attorney General has just spoken out about

Epstein's apparent suicide. More on that after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many, how many blood. How many bloods of our body disturbed the world.


ANDERSON: Well those are heartbreaking scenes from Yemen. Devastated, now on the verge of sinking further into disarray even after years of fighting.

Over the weekend a separatist group that had been fighting alongside the Saudi led coalition broke away and turned against their allies. They

seized the city of Aiden, the seat of Yemen's internationally recognized government. That government is backed by Saudi Arabia. The separatists

backed by the UAE, now we could be seeing a sort of war break out within Yemen's civil war. CNN's Sam Kiley is in Abu Dhabi. Recently just back

from Yemen. Sam, sort this out for us. What exactly is going on as we speak?

KILEY: Well, over the weekend, Becky, the southern transitional council, which as you say there is backed by the United Arab Emirates and was part

of the Saudi led coalition against the Houthis in the north, of which the second part in terms of the international coalition -- the second most

significant part -- was indeed or is indeed the United Arab Emirates.

The successionists managed to overrun Aiden effectively kicking out the elements that supported the government of President Hadi and the militias

backed by Saudi Arabia. And they have since said that they would join in peace talks, but they would be negotiating from a position of absolute

power, a level of power that has been accepted, at least by the interior ministry, minister of the Hadi government, Mr. Ahmed Al-Maysary who issued

a rather sarcastic statement yesterday. This is what he said.


AHMED AL-MAYSARY, YEMENI INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): The successful coupe destroyed what's left of this country's sovereignty. We

can see defeat and congratulation our brothers in the United Arab Emirates for their victory over us.


KILEY: Now there's no evidence whatsoever, Becky, that the UAE was involved in this coup as the government minister there put it or indeed

even had full knowledge of it. But it has come at a time, a very desperate time in the quagmire that Saudi Arabia and the UAE find themselves in

Yemen. As you know, Becky, you reported yourself. The UAE has been actually trying to extricate itself from this mess and it's just got a

little bit messier.

Sam Kiley in Abu Dhabi for us. Fawaz Gerges is of the London School of Economics -- thank you, Sam -- says Yemen is fractured among all the

various parties at war.

[11:20:00] He says as the unitary state Yemen no longer exists. Fawaz a good friend of this show joining us now. By which you mean what.

FAWAZ GERGES, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, I mean, you have the Sana, the capital of Yemen, which is controlled by the pro-Iranian Houthis. You

have now the north/south divide. The southern separatists basically seized the strategic port of Aiden on Saturday. And you have the Hadi government,

the internationally recognized government.

Multiple fault lines in Yemen keep talking about the Arab coalition of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates against the Houthis, that you

have divisions within the civil war itself. I just don't see how Yemen can be put together. Even though there's a cease fire now in Aiden, but the

latest round of fighting has deepened the divide between the south, the southern separatists and the northern as led by President Hadi.

ANDERSON: Let's rewind a few decades ago shall we to the 1960s and '70s to a previous civil war in Yemen between the north and the south of the

country resulting in the creation of an independent south Yemen. The separatist movement in the south wants to return to that. What else do we

know about this group?

GERGES: Well, we know that the southern separatists now are a major force. They number between 70 and 90,000 fighters hardened, battle hardened as a

result of the fight. They have been the spearhead of the Arab coalition against the who these. They've been supported by both Saudi Arabia and the

United Arab Emirates. And this particular division between the north and the south goes back quite a few decades.

In 1990, of course, the south lost its separate unit. Now what the southern separatists want, they want to split the south from the north.

They resent being ruled by the Yemen government, which is controlled by the north.

ANDERSON: What goes on in Yemen doesn't stay in Yemen. What happens in Yemen isn't controlled by Yemenis most of the time. Of course we have

these regional sort of actors involved. They will say because the positioning of Yemen. It's geostrategic importance so far as security is

concerned influences other countries in the region -- not least the Saudis and the UAE. We saw this -- we saw the UAE pull some of its troops out of

the a Hodeidah operation just recently. They say for strategic reasons. And now we see what's going on here in the south. Are we seeing a

fracture, a split in what has been this very tight coalition of the Saudis and the UAE?

GERGES: There is a coalition, the Arab coalition made up of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirate, and the war in Yemen started in 2014 when the

Houthis, a group, a separate group basically carried out the coup against the Hadi government. They took over basically, Sanaa. So the Arab

coalition led by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates has been waging a war against the Houthis and its ally, mainly Iran.

So you have really multiple pairs here. You have Iran. You have the Houthi on one side. You have Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates on

the other side. And you have the internationally recognized government by Hadi on the other side. The irony is that the internationally recognized

government of Hadi is the weakest link now and this is -- even though the Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are united against Iranian

influence, not just in Yemen but beyond, they have their own separate agenda in Yemen.

ANDERSON: And may not agree -- agree about the future for a Hadi government in Yemen going forward. There is one man driving the way

forward for Saudi Arabia in Yemen, that is Mohammad bin Salman, the powerful Crown Prince. Essentially the architect for the kingdom's Yemen

policy. We begin with him in what is our new series profiling the region's high-powered leaders.


ANDERSON (voice-over): He's the 30-something controlling the vast riches of an oil kingdom with the political influence to shape most of the Middle

East. Mohammed Bin Salman's rise to power has defied tradition and challenges convention.

To some he's a visionary, reforming a kingdom once stuck firmly in the past. To others he's a rogue, crushing any hint of dissent.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): This guy has got to go. Saudi Arabia if you're listening, there are a lot of good people you can choose, but MBS

has tainted your country and tainted himself.

Mohammed bin Salman -- known to many as MBS -- rose to power in 2015 as defense minister of Saudi Arabia.

[11:25:00] With his father as King, he became Crown Prince and de facto ruler in 2017 ending the kingdom's traditional royal succession. It was

meant to be the start of change. MBS challenged conservative underpinnings of Saudi society.

Women were given the right to drive. Concerts became more common. Then there was vision 2030, his economic plan to wean the kingdom off black

gold. But while he's challenged convention, he's also created controversy.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNNMONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: 32-year-old leader pushing against this anti-corruption drive.

ANDERSON: At home, a so-called corruption purge saw prominent princes turn into prisoners, and a five-star hotel into a gilded cage. To MBS's

supporters, it was a step against rampant corruption. His critics saw it as a campaign to silence domestic rivals.

Abroad, MBS has also helped wage a protracted war in Yemen costing the kingdom billions of dollars and seeing Yemenis suffer destruction, famine,

and the worst cholera outbreak the world has seen.

He oversaw the public resignation in Riyadh, broadcast on Saudi TV of Lebanon's Prime Minister. The PM later rescinded his resignation, and the

Saudis deny having a hand in it.

But perhaps the biggest stain on MBS's international reputation was the brutal murder of prominent Saudi journalist and staunch critic of Saudi's

government, Jamal Khashoggi. A U.N. special report concluded that the murder was planned and organized by officials working on behalf of the

kingdom where the responsibility ultimately falls on the de facto ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. The CIA also coming out against MBS

claiming he ordered the assassination, accusations the world court in Riyadh flatly denies. But through it all, only one ally truly matters.


ANDERSON: MBS's close ties to Jared Kushner -- President Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law -- give him a direct line into the White House and

have allowed him to reemerge on the global scene from these setbacks relatively unscathed. Mohammed bin Salman is a leader with a clear vision

and doesn't seem to be waiting for his turn at the throne to achieve it.


ANDERSON: He owns the war in Yemen. What's he going to do with it, Fawaz?

GERGES: Well, I mean the challenge for the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, is that the Emiratis now have decided to pull out to

reduce their commitment. So really now the Saudis own the war itself and is not going well. It's the world's worst humanitarian crisis. It's a

heartbreak. Humanitarian wise it's a catastrophe and it's not winnable militarily.

Given the tensions, given what we've seen in Aiden the last few days, it tells you very much that the coalition is divided, that the Yemenis it's

very difficult to maintain the unity of the Yemen coalition let alone the coalition against the Houthis. They want a face save formula and at this

particular point it's very difficult for the Crown Prince to find a way out and that he embraces Yemen.

ANDERSON: Fawaz Gerges, in the house, in London, always a pleasure, sir. Thank you.

While much of his life was a mystery and now his death is as well. Child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein may have taken his dark secrets to the grave,

but that doesn't mean the investigation into new charges brought just last month is over. More on that after this.


ANDERSON: I wanted to return to our top story this hour, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson. Chaos at Hong Kong's airport as

massive protests forced all flights in and out to be canceled. Speaking to CNN's Christiane Amanpour earlier, student activists Joshua Wong called on

the U.S. to take a hard line with the authorities in Hong Kong. Have a listen.


JOSHUA WONG, STUDENT ACTIVIST: When Hong Kong people were fired by tear gas and rubber bullet purchased and produced from the United States. It's

really unreasonable to have a meeting with those U.S. diplomats and explained the constant of Hong Kong people. We urge U.S. government take

the reference from what has been by U.K. Stop the export license of crowd control equipment to Hong Kong. Never should the U.S. show any kind of

bullet or teargas to Hong Kong right police. And they should not be a part of the supporters of the police brutality in Hong Kong.


ANDERSON: Joshua Wong there. Extraordinary scenes at Hong Kong's international airport today.

Well his case shocked the conscience of America and the world. Now his apparent suicide has robbed his dozens of alleged victims of the chance to

see him stand trial. But the case against Jeffrey Epstein isn't over. For starters, authorities are investigating why such a high-profile sex

offender was taken off suicide watch and was not being regularly monitored.

Moments ago Attorney General William Barr says he was quote, appalled and angry to hear of Epstein's death in a New York jail, and says he's not

learning of serious irregularities at that facility.

Epstein's death comes just after newly unsealed court documents revealed new details of sexual abuse claims against him and several high-profile

associates, including Britain's Prince Andrew. I'm joined now by my colleague Max Foster, and these are the headlines out of some of the

newspapers today, a picture of the Duke of York with the Queen, Andrew and the secret Epstein diary. Andrew faces new Epstein anguish -- Max.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, like so many of Epstein's former friends, Prince Andrew just has this case coming back to

haunt him all the time. That's despite a court striking down all the allegations against Prince Andrew in 2015.


FOSTER (voice-over): Business as usual it seems for Prince Andrew, pictured on Sunday riding alongside the Queen on their way to church. A

bold show of support perhaps as new details place a spotlight on allegations of sexual misconduct laid against the British royal. Hundreds

of pages of previously sealed court filings were released on Friday bringing to light fresh allegations, which have linked Duke of York to his

former friend and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was found dead in his prison cell on Saturday.

At the heart of the documents connected to a 2015 defamation case, are allegations by Virginia Roberts Giuffre. Who claims Epstein kept her as a

teenage sex slave. Giuffre pictured here with the Prince says Epstein forced her to perform sex acts with a number of prominent men, including

the Duke of York in 2001.

[11:35:05] Now court documents detail fresh allegations that the British royal groped another young woman at Epstein's Manhattan mansion. The other

woman, who has alleged abuse at the hands of Epstein claims she was forced into sexual acts with Prince Andrew at Epstein's New York City home where

she says Giuffre participated as well.

Buckingham Palace has repeatedly denied the allegations telling CNN that any suggestion of impropriety with underaged minors is categorically

untrue. However, in a statement to CNN in July the palace confirmed that the Duke of York met with Epstein in 2010. Describing the encounter as an

unwise decision on the part of the Prince. Whilst the Royal family has in the past has not been forthcoming in responding to such allegations, the

Duke of York took to the World Economic Forum in 2015 to reiterate the palace's steadfast denial of underaged sex allegations.

PRINCE ANDREW, DUKE OF YORK: And I just wish to reiterate and to reaffirm the statements which have already been made on my behalf by Buckingham


FOSTER: As these unsealed court filings shed new light on the lurid details of the Epstein scandal, questions surrounding the involvement of

the financier's high-profile associates are beginning to mount. While Epstein's death brought the federal criminal case against him to an abrupt

end, the scandal is far from over and prosecutors could still pursue related criminal cases involving the financier's many associates.


FOSTER: A very nervous time as well, many more documents are going to come out, and we're going to hear more as a result of the suicide as well.

ANDERSON: Max Foster, thank you.

Coming up here on CNN, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson. We examine Britain's place in the world today and dig into

Trump's influence on Brexit with none other than the "Financial Time's" chief U.S. correspondent, Ed Luce, after this.


ANDERSON: Within the last few hours, the American President getting on the phone with this country's, the U.K. Prime Minister to discuss global

economic issues. Long gone are the days when Britain would dictate the global play book from Hong Kong to Iran to Kashmir. The sun has set on the

British empire. Let's look into all that with Brexit fast approaching, I went for a little tour outside Parliament here in London with none other

than Ed Luce, a fantastic mind, and often looking at his home here, the U.K., from the outside as chief correspondent for the "Financial Times"

based in Washington.


ANDERSON (voice-over): Almost everywhere you look, London is brimming with vestiges of its imperial past and an overflowing sense of its place and

purpose in the world. In many ways, still rooted in its empire.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We will be able to look back on this period, this extraordinary period as the beginning of a new golden age

for our United Kingdom.

ANDERSON (on camera): Ed, remind you of anybody?

ED LUCE, U.S. NATIONAL EDITOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: It's supposed to remind us of Boris, of Boris Johnson. That's who he'd like Churchill to remind us

of. But no, I think Churchill would probably find this situation to be pretty ridiculous and self-inflicted. Kind of the opposite to the late


ANDERSON (voice-over): So can America's special relationship with Britain -- a term coined by Churchill -- come to Brexit's rescue?

[11:40:00] LUCE: The only thing Boris has to offer is deregulation, NHS, for American agribusiness, pharmaceutical companies, he would find it

impossible to sell this to the British people. The kind of meal Trump wants would be undigestible to the British electorate. So the chances of

there being a U.S./U.K. trade deal after a no deal exit, I would put it close to zero.

TRUMP: And Boris is going to be a great Prime Minister. I predict he will be a great Prime Minister. He has what it takes. They needed him for a

long time. The U.K. needed him for a long time.

LUCE: Trump's going to do everything possible to encourage Boris to go off the cliff. That's what he wants to see.

ANDERSON (on camera): Why?

LUCE: It will accelerate the breakup of Europe. It will then pick off Britain as a country that will have much less bargaining power in a trade

deal. Secondly, I think he likes right wing populists, and he sees Boris - - Boris has auditioned for the role and passed the audition. Boris is mini -- as Trump amusingly put it. He's Britain Trump.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Joining the vacuum of populism leadership is India's Trump, Narendra Modi.

LUCE: Narendra Modi has won this thumping reelection. He is the undisputed strong man of democratic India, but he's the ill liberal strong

man. So I don't think India -- I don't fear for Indian democracy. I fear for Indian liberal secular democracy. And those words are just as

important as the word democracy.

ANDERSON: His latest strong man move stripping Kashmir of autonomy, a disputed territory harkening back to British rule.

(on camera): Remind me what it was that Winston Churchill, our friend behind us said about Mahatma Gandhi.

LUCE: Churchill did not have much respect for Gandhi. He described him once as 1/2 naked fakir. A person dressed in a loincloth who was

attempting to take on the might of the British empire. So Churchill was not a Gandhi fan. I think it's safe to say.

ANDERSON: What would Gandhi think of what is going on with regard to Kashmir today?

LUCE: The genius of Gandhi was he understood India was inherently pleural, a babel of different voices, languages, cast, religions and that it could

only be stitched together by consensus and mutual respect and toleration and a secular politics.

What Narendra Modi's Hindu nationalist government has done in the last few days by taking away the autonomy of Kashmir, the only Muslim majority state

in India is I think kind of a dagger at the heart of Gandhi's vision of what India is.

ANDERSON (voice-over): A vision of democracy, now having to grapple with a new world order.


ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson. That was CONNECT THE WORLD from the team working with me here in London, Abu Dhabi and Atlanta, it is a very good


[11:45:00] (WORLD SPORT)