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Dayton Police Reveal New Video Images of Shooter; Dayton Police: Officers Engaged Shooter in Less Than 20 Seconds; Dayton Police: Gunman Visited Second Bar Just Before Shooting; Dayton Police: Unclear if Gunman Intentionally Targeted Sister. Aired 3:30- 4p ET
Aired August 13, 2019 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00] LT. PAUL SAUNDERS, DAYTON, OHIO POLICE: He probably had to recharge it.
And the next video I was going to show -- as he was travelling up this aisle is when he began shooting. So this is another one we'll have to show twice because the first thing you'll notice is the people. That's going to tell you when you actually have rounds coming down range. Then were going to replay -- I want you to follow the line we've superimpose -- and that will show when the shooter comes through here. It's hard to keep track of both of them. But you're going to notice after you see the when they start moving that the shooter doesn't actually get into the plane until after that happens. So this is the patio for Blind Bob's.
Go ahead and click play for me, please.
Now they're moving, they just heard shots. And if you will play them for me. Play it again. And now you can see when they start moving. The best place to see him is right here. But he'll run this path. So there he goes and we know he's been firing -- going to pause for a second -- because just past this umbrella is the taco stand on Fifth Street. That's where our first three fatalities occur. One of them his sister.
So we also know from -- homicide tells me from the eyewitness accounts, that as he's crossing Fifth Street -- which is right here on the red line -- he continues to fire down Fifth Street, and there's evidence of that and is reflected also. Get the next side for me.
So this slide you're looking at right now is -- we're kind of move you geographically down the street. This is from the Hole in the Wall -- which is the store that is adjacent to Ned Pepper's. But a cruiser I showed you earlier actually is not in the picture right here but it's cropped with the cruiser and the police will be right here.
This is the crowd in front of the Hole in the Wall here. When the video starts, they are reacting to shots fired and you're going to see the first response of the officers. They've obviously just heard the gunfire.
The first officer coming around this corner you're going to see Officer Lopez, I believe. Followed by the officers -- because later on you can barely see these guys from the shot that we have. And I want to start off because that was the first response.
So the next slide is now from Ned Peppers. And this is now angling to the west. So the shooter is up the street. He's crossed Fifth Street. He's been shooting down range or down Fifth Street. The officers are reacting. You saw officer Lopez. You're going to see him again. He's going to come up in this portion of the screen. We have had to redact some of this just because there some sensitive material on there that I didn't think was really good for the public.
But you're going to hear (INAUDIBLE) the path of the shooter and the first response of the officers. So you can see Officer Lopez come from up here. And you'll see on the right-hand side the path of officer Lopez approximately. So he's engaging right now. That was the shooter that just went by. So the officer came up and he has now just responded back. You want to play that again.
So there's Officer (INAUDIBLE). There's the shooter coming by. So he was engaged there. So we're going to go to the next slide, which is still going to be from -- this is from Ned Peppers. This will be the beginning of this scene.
So the first slide that I showed you was the officers all fanning out. So they're all up here. So next door is Hole in the Wall. This is Ned Peppers' front door. You just saw down here, the Officer Lopez engaging the shooter as he was running down the sidewalk. So you're going to see the shooter continue to run right here and it's going to end right here.
Can you play for me? And then pause it for me.
So if you look at the thumbnail on the right, you can see that the shooter is right in front of Ned Peppers. The blue dots show you where the police are located on the thumbnail over here. The -- by our best resources that we have at our fingertips, we believe that the shooting started at approximately 1:05 and 35 seconds. We believe it ended at 1:06:07, that's 32 seconds.
[15:35:00] Depending on which video you're looking at our first engagement was about halfway through that. The -- all of this data has been turned over for more technical analysis with the FBI. That will take quite a bit -- I mean, it took us a while to go through what we got. And we were just homing in on certain parts. They'll be going through audio, CCTV and social media, which we've collected that, also. But in a nutshell, this accounts for the shooter's movements from the time he arrived in the (INAUDIBLE) street to the time of the incident ended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said the shooting started (INAUDIBLE). What was the first time you saw him on video at all?
SAUNDERS: At 23 -- I'm sorry, 11:04 would be the first -- 11:04, 11:05. That would be in the Oregon district parking lot, when they're -- the very first clip I showed you of him exiting vehicle, that would be our first time on video. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you say 12:42 that he actually passed the police (INAUDIBLE)?
SAUNDERS: The time on the -- I got the time right here.
CHIEF RICHARD BIEHL, DAYTON, OHIO POLICE: It's when he exits Ned Peppers, yes. Well the police vehicle and likely police officers at the same time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he was going into Ned Peppers or someplace else?
BIEHL: That's a great question. I think there's a good -- whether he had gone into Ned Peppers to case it. I think that's a strong probability. But let me also say that he was very familiar with the Oregon district. So this is not a place that he did not know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any chance that while inside Ned Peppers he had some sort of interactions with someone?
BIEHL: No. There's no indication that he had -- I mean he had contact with individuals, but there's no indication that any of those were of significance that would generate some kind of response like this. This was a plan well before he got to the Oregon district.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the most important thing you learned from watching that video?
BIEHL: Well, I think it was really important, you know, where there co-conspirators. Where there some other folks aiding and abetting. We're not saying this is the finality of this conversation, but clearly, that day during that time frame, we don't see anyone assisting him in committing this horrendous crime. So that's important information.
It also -- that plus some follow-up investigation seems to strongly suggest that his companion had no idea what he was going to do nor did he have any knowledge of the weapons that were in the trunk of that vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he knew exactly where his sister was and went after her directly?
BIEHL: Yes, he did know where they were at. Because they were communicating during the hour back and forth. One brief phone call -- we don't know the content of that. That was his sister and he. So we don't know what that content is. But also, text messages, also.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he said he'd meet her at the taco stand or she needs to (INAUDIBLE)?
BIEHL: No, there was no invitation to meet. There was a communication that -- from his companion that they were, quote, going to the taco stand, and that was about, about seven minutes or so before the shooting occurred.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So with her being one of the victims (INAUDIBLE) that was his sister?
BIEHL: You know, it's an interesting question and I will tell you that a lot of us have been involved in this dialogue. We all have been reviewing this evidence, including the homicide detectives who were deeply immersed in this. We have radically different views in that regard. And if we can't agree in the interpretation of the evidence, where some are saying absolutely not, he was not intentional, some say, no, it had to be. I would say it's inconclusive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
BIEHL: Well it is was the question whether the sister was an intentional victim. And his companion, who was also shot but survived. And I said, basically, the evidence had been debated in both directions with individuals in our organization intimately familiar with the evidence, arguing both directions. And if we -- based on what we know now, which is a key factor here, if we can't seem to make that call conclusively that we're divided about how -- whether that was intentional or not, I think it's inconclusive. We may get a better insight through historical data looking back. But based on the evidence from that night, I don't think we can make the call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any indication that when (INAUDIBLE)?
BIEHL: None that I'm aware of.
[15:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So officer firing was offscreen. Officers fired were in offscreen first while he's up on Fifth Street and then (INAUDIBLE).
SAUNDERS: Actually, the officer was on screen on the video you saw the officer was on screen. The shooter would have been offscreen initially coming down the sidewalk.
BIEHL: And there's more video out there, by the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How big a part did the body armor play of not being able --?
BIEHL: Yes. It's a great question, too. I would say that the body armor, because of the way it was worn was vulnerable, and fortunately, we were able to take advantage of that vulnerability.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how it was worn?
BIEHL: He had plates, but that's all. Ballistic plates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you confident that none of the people that sustained gunshot wounds where not hit by police gunfire?
BIEHL: You know, that's something that the corner reviews in his examination. He's not complete and when he's ready to discuss, you know, that particular -- what the injuries were and cause of those injuries, then you can have that information. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who died, at what time and what the
order of (INAUDIBLE)?
BIEHL: Well, we certainly know three individuals who were shot immediately, right around Blind Bob's. So they were the initial victims. What is a little bit, I think, uncertain for me, I don't know if our detectives know. I mean, we have someone completely on the south side of the street in front of Tumbleweed. And everyone else is clustered on the other side of the street. So when that shot was fired, that's not really clear for me, at this point, although --
SAUNDERS: She was mobile, so she was shot and ran quite a ways. So they're still piecing that together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In video where he spoke to one of the people inside the bar, the workers, do you -- have you been able to interview that person and know what they talked about?
BIEHL: Yes, we have interviewed a lot of folks, I can't tell you who all we have spoken to or if that person or what the content was, I mean, that's a level of detail we're not going to be able to provide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the most important questions right now is motivation. Video (INAUDIBLE). Any more insight about the possible motivation?
BIEHL: I've kind of tried to create a distinction here between motivation and mind-set. It is an important distinction to make. Motivation seems to suggest this specific location, this particular night, these individuals who were victims, I think that's way, way, way downstream. That's not the level of clarity we will have now. We certainly don't have it now, and whether we will ever have that is going to be a question.
Mindset, oh, I think we have a lot of information about mind-set, historical data about mind-set and his progression. But I want to remind you that this is the principle focus right now of the investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. So they're running with that. We need them to run with that. That's what they do best. Amongst other things, by the way. But that is really their role and we're going to allow them to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the reason about the mindset is all of your felons?
BIEHL: I don't think more than I've already amplified, and there's this history of obsession with violence and violence ideations, the discussion of interest in mass shootings and the expression of a desire to carry out a mass shooting. I think that should be enough thematically that you should get a pretty clear picture of what was going on here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, if I ask you again of that conversation that (INAUDIBLE), you can't say the manner or what the nature of that was? BIEHL: I'm not aware of any. I mean, that would have been an
interview by homicide detectives and I don't have that level of detail. We really wanted to keep this -- and I realize that you have a lot of questions and we're obviously try to fill in what gaps we have. But I will tell you, this was the next big I think chunk of the investigation that we felt comfortable releasing. Because we a high level of confidence it's accurate in terms of time frame and location and activity, particularly of the principle individual who was responsible for these mass shootings and these murders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any evidence that Connor Betts was a drug user?
BIEHL: Yes, I think there's going to be some evidence of that. The question was, was that play in that night? I don't know yet and that's part of the toxicology report that typically takes six weeks. The coroner was asked late last week, said he would hope to get it in two weeks. So that's an important piece. Once again, it gets to mindset. We won't know that for at least two weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you find drug paraphernalia in the car or anything?
BIEHL: There was some evidence of drug paraphernalia, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that in the conversations in either of the bars, nothing that would indicate that that's what caused him to begin shooting --
[15:45:00] BIEHL: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- that he preplanned it earlier. Any idea how much earlier, like one day? One week? One month?
BIEHL: You know, hard to say, Mike. I can tell you he was in the Oregon district on Friday night. So what was his mind-set then? I don't know. He was not unfamiliar with this area and the fact he was there the night before, you know, certainly have to consider there was some thought being given to it at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that nine-minute time frame that he was on camera that you didn't see him have you had anybody say that they saw him or maybe with someone or --
BIEHL: No, no, in fact, we looked, I mean, Paul, your folks looked at that, I don't think saw anybody else in the alleyway during that time.
SAUNDERS: No, so, there's two segments of period that we were looking at seeing him clearly, that's one when he's at the car with the branch in the way and then behind -- you're talking about behind Newcoms? There were people in the alley, in the parking lot behind Newcoms, Blind Bob's.
There were some people back there. There was nobody that went back to the area where -- from either side. We have video from the Newcoms side and then we have the video from Blind Bob -- or from Heart Mercantile actually. So nobody went back there. There were no vehicles that came into play during that point. So he appears to be back there alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean by charge the gun?
SAUNDERS: So to --
BIEHL: Chamber a round.
SAUNDERS: Chamber a round. Basically, your bullets are in a magazine of some type. When you charge a gun, you are working the action so that one of the rounds goes up into the chamber of the gun, so it can fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, how's getting in the cell phone change this investigation for you? What have you learned that you didn't know before?
BIEHL: Well, you know, just was just informed. I talked to Todd Wickerham Sunday night, because this was on my mind a bit, and had been informed then that he had gotten in the phone. I don't know that there's a lot more detail. I don't have a high level of detail that was there in there, but I don't have a sense there's anything that's particularly revealing at this time.
They've had to have an opportunity to go through that and there's other evidence, too, that they have to go through. So nothing that I'm aware of at this time that emerged of significance in its initial examination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) You had said to a number of people throughout the last decade or so had made references to some sort of mental illness. Are you aware of any diagnoses, and if so, what?
BIEHL: No, I'm not aware of any diagnosis. I am aware that he had undergone some treatment. And I can't comment further on that. But I am aware of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think Ned Peppers was the destination?
BIEHL: It seems so. It seems so. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, are you thinking that he had the weapon in the backpack, disassembled in that whatever that span of time was, was in the alley --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- he assembled everything?
BIEHL: Right, I don't think he could have put that weapon in its fully built-out state in that backpack and not have it sticking out. So to some degree, I think it was disassembled. I think that's a pretty fair conclusion to draw. And of course, you had that drum magazine, too. So, yes, I think he -- I think that's part of the explanation for the nine minutes, right?
SAUNDERS: Right. And that's noticing the fact that the backpack appeared to be weighed down. So it's safe to say it was probably in the backpack and we've checked with our -- a lot of our weapons techs and SWAT guys, and they all kind of concur that most likely that weapon had to be broken down to some extent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any evidence --
BIEHL: I'm sorry hang on minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any evidence that Megan Betts had a chance to confront Connor before she was shot?
BIEHL: None, none.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she even recognize -- ?
BIEHL: There was a question even of visibility, quite honestly, from that alley. Because you have the patio at Blind Bob's, you have all of those umbrellas kind of hanging down. Her and the companion are on the opposite side of the taco stand. So there's a real question, could he even see who that was on the other side?
Which is why I'm saying this -- the evidence seems to be questionable. Although it's very clear, seven minutes before he started shooting, he knew they were there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they didn't know that there was any guns in that pack?
BIEHL: No indication that they knew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you learn anything significant from friends and family?
[15:50:00] BIEHL: You know, that's still -- like I say, it's a conversation in progress, but I think probably that of greatest significance, there does not seem to be any indication the he was aware. As I said before the existence of the weapons in the trunk or what the assailant intended to do that night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he say anything about why (INAUDIBLE) then separated?
BIEHL: No. I don't think -- he may have, but if that was part of the interview, I'm not aware of the response.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) investigatory information from any of the other people who were workers?
BIEHL: You know, that is, Ben, I will say a bit of a work in progress and at this time I don't have that level of detail. It was literally to now be able to tell you today, it is not 14 gunshot wound victims, it's 17. So just trying to get their identity, the demographics, we need to get an offense reports, we need to get medical records. I mean, that is a lot that goes into trying to establish what happened and how they were injured, et cetera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, this is one week out, just your thoughts on the community, your police officers and where we are.
BIEHL: Well, you know, this community is remarkable. Just remarkable. I'm amazed at their response. Just amazed. It's so gracious. So grateful. So caring. So this is a beautiful community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you have to say about your policemen and women?
BIEHL: Wow! Yes, their response was crucial. Their response was immediate. The response was effective. The response was compassionate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you said originally that you were confident that Connor Betts had acquired these weapons legally, are you still confident in that?
BIEHL: Yes, there's no indication that there was anything unlawful in the purchase or acquisition of those -- that I know of at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But if he potentially was a drug user and filled out the form (INAUDIBLE) and said he was not in order to get those weapons, could that be unlawful?
BIEHL: Could be. Could be. Part of that is going back historically and trying to determine that, right. And you know, was it occasional drug use or was it daily drug use? I mean, there's a lot of gap to fill in, to kind of make that call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, when you say drug paraphernalia in the car.
BIEHL: Well, I don't think we'll go into that level of detail, but I don't think it was in possession or is in the car? I thought it was on person. Do we know?
SAUNDERS: I would wait
BIEHL: There was some found, I don't know if it was in the car or the person. So there's evidence obtained --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But not clear where you found it?
SAUNDERS: Or what it is.
BIEHL: So the focus of this, I think anybody in the room knows, somebody knows but I don't know, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that's now what we're talking about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's a question, you guys brought it up.
BIEHL: Brought up what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said they found it in the car. BIEHL: Yes, there's paraphernalia, there's no question about its part of the evidence that's being analyzed. You know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So is it fair for us to report you found it in the car or on the person?
BIEHL: We'll have to get back, I don't have the level of detail. And nobody in the room seems to have it either, so if none of has it, we probably have to ask.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you chief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great, I think that's it, you guys don't have any other question, you're good.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Well, so just we wanted to listen and hang on to every single word of the Dayton Police Chief and his Lieutenant there. That was just extraordinary how they just walked us all through quite literally frame by frame of how the shooter was out for all intents and purposes, appearances, looked like he was having a good time on a Saturday night with his sister and a friend and then sadly we know the rest of the story.
To be able to see how he walked, where he walked, where he was, all because of this timeline really begins to answer some of the questions. Not certainly, not all and certainly not to the family members, the answer is still why. But it begins to paint a picture of exactly what he was doing.
I've got CNN law enforcement analyst James Gagliano on with me and so a couple of things just -- and of course I want your two cents. I mean the fact that we learned -- we knew he was at this one bar, Blind Bob's with the sister and the friend. We see him talking to the bouncer. He leaves. What we didn't realize is he goes down the street across the way to Ned Peppers, and he was actually in there, whether he was casing out the joint, they can't say conclusively.
But nothing seemed to happen in there to maybe agitate him to want to go back. But nevertheless, we know that is the trajectory he took and was about to go inside Ned Peppers when he was stopped and killed by police in 30 seconds. The other takeaway I had, James, was just the fact that he had been in communication with his sister and the friend, and he knew they were at the taco truck. We know he ultimately killed his sister.
Where do you even want to begin?
[15:55:00] JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think your exclamation of wow is right, Brooke. My biggest takeaway was the level of detail, the granular minutia, in 25 years in law enforcement and now 3 years at CNN in trying to process these things and watching press conferences post-incident I've never seen a police department walk through with that level of detail.
BALDWIN: It was incredible.
GAGLIANO: It was incredible. Here is a couple of takeaways I got. Police were very careful again to stress no motivation. They don't have a causality yet. They did point this out as I'm checking out my notes. The shooting did appear to be planned. It wasn't something where the shooter snapped. People often think that mass shooters just snap. The FBI determined that 77 percent of all mass shootings have some level of preparation. 46 percent include some level of detail planning. I was also blown away by the level of detail in the processing.
Now, after the incident was stopped and halted by police in that amazing 30 seconds, they also now have this Herculean task of going through 250 gigabytes of video. They'll certainly have help with the FBI with that but doing that timeline is important, Brooke, for this reason, they wanted to establish that no one else was providing aid, comfort or support for the shooter.
They don't know if that happened prior. They don't believe that the person that purchased the weapons, Mr. Kollie, did have any knowledge of this beforehand but they don't know if the shooter had been radicalized online or had anybody else that kind of inspired him to participate in this heinous act -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: And by the way, the video we're looking -- this is me a week ago inside of Ned Peppers. So this is actually the bar where the shooter went to potentially case it out for about 20 minutes after he had been in Blind Bob's and this is where Dane who was so lovely who was working the bar. He's an assistant manager working the bar. And he's pointing right now to where the doorman was, because what the police didn't include in that newsier was that it was the doorman of the bar who actually grabbed the gun from the shooter as police shot and killed him. And then they grabbed the gun and put it in a safe place before police recovered it from them later.
But just that is the bar and that was the new piece of information because nobody had known or at least publicly that he had actually gone into another bar, and then to add to that, listening to the police chief, he had gone to the same area the night before. The night before.
GAGLIANO: Yes. Brooke, 30 seconds and this gunman was able to kill nine people and wound 26 others. I watched that video a dozen times. If that shooter had made that turn into the bar, there would have been --
BALDWIN: They were elbows to elbows according to that guy, Dane, I was talking to and it would have been a heck of a lot worse. James Gagliano, thank you very much for coming on as always and your years of expertise.
Still ahead here on CNN, an update on the family of this young girl who cried and cried as she learned that her father had been arrested in that ICE raid. We will take you live to Mississippi where we've learned they've just spoken to her father for the first time.
[16:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Here is a quick update on that day care fire that killed five children in Erie, Pennsylvania, the youngest just nine months old, the fire chief investigating whether an extension cord caused this fire. The day care was licensed but only had one smoke alarm in the entire house. It was in the attic.
The fire chief also said the day care was grandfathered into a time when childcare facilities were not inspected for fire safety protocols. I'm Brooke Baldwin today. Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Trump said China is moving troops, reacting to the protests in Hong Kong.