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Bond Market Signaling A Recession; Ethan Collie Is Accused Of Lying On Federal Paperwork To Get His Firearm; Sen. Harris Released Her Plan For Gun Control; Republican Steve King Has A History Of Making Racist, Bizarre, Offensive Remarks; Questions Continue To Swirl Around The Apparent Suicide Of Jeffrey Epstein. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 14, 2019 - 15:00   ET


[15:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: -- since the 2007 financial crisis.

And CNN's Julia Chatterley is here with me now.

And the bond market signaling a recession this morning. How accurate is this? And is this just a matter of when?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: It's a great question. And to your point, in each of the last seven recessions, we see this warning sign from the bond market. However, we have also seen this warning from the bond market and not had a recession 12 to 18 months later. And you kind of mentioned what's staying on here.

We have had warning shots left, right and center from the global economy. Trade wars aren't easy to win and its collateral damage. Economies all around the world slowing. So what you are seeing is investors piling into safe haven assets like bonds and that's creating the warning signal that we are seeing.

So my view is take a step back here. Yes, there's a lot of nervousness, yes, there's a lot of fear right now, but the underlying fundamentals of the U.S. economy at least remains strong. But we are seeing in just in stocks here.

BALDWIN: OK. And then we know the stocks rebounded yesterday. This is what President Trump said quoting him, the stock market is way up today for various reasons including tariffs.


BALDWIN: Why do you laugh?

CHATTERLEY: I laugh because if you look at what we have seen over the last 14 hours, we are only, and I say only, down around three quarters of a percent for stocks. Now I think the other big question here is what is the delay does in the whole chunk of these tariffs and that is what we saw from the President yesterday.

BALDWIN: From September to December.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. What does that mean? Does this make trade easy to reach? Does the trade deal get easier to reach or is this only an issue between China and the United States. Did President Trump just show well his cards here and say he is afraid of the impact of this trade war on the U.S. economy. In which case, did he just say to China, you can play even harder ball here, because I'm afraid of stock market weakness? And I'm afraid that the impact from the U.S. economy, we don't know. And that is part of the weakness today.

BALDWIN: For Americans who are watching who either have college debt or paying mortgages or they are thinking of their 401(k)s, what are they to think about all of this?

CHATTERLEY: There's a lot of noise right now. I think they have to expect a lot of volatility. It's very difficult. It's very worrying. But I think, again, we take a step back here and say, that if you look here today, the stock market is up double digits.

The U.S. economy, the U.S. consumer, the underlying fundamentals here of the U.S. remain pretty solid. But I appreciate that everybody, everybody is afraid of what the ultimate impact of this trade war is going to be. And everyone around the world is seeing their economy slow pretty much here. So I think it's more a warning here for the U.S. administration to say that again trade wars not easy to win, and there are costs, and we are seeing that in the markets today.

BALDWIN: OK. Julia, thank you so much for the perspective on all of this, I appreciate it.

More on this, as we get closer of course to the closing bell.

But first to the latest on the investigation in the mass killing in Dayton, Ohio. Nine people were murdered there two weekends ago. More than a dozen others injured. And the man who admits he was friends with the shooter is said to be in court this hour.

Ethan Collie is accused of lying on federal paperwork to get his firearm. Federal agents say that he helped the Dayton gunman buy a 100 round magazine and more. But investigators say that he was not aware of his friend's plan.

CNN's Ryan Young is covering the story for us in the hearing in Dayton.

Ryan, what do you know?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, obviously, this too remains difficult for the people who live in this community. All up and down the street where the shooting happened, people are still gathering to talk about exactly what happened and to remember those were lost.

But today, there will be a focus on the courtroom behind because Ethan Collie is the man charged with helping the shooter gain some of the things he needed. Not only did he help buy the body armor and the ammunition drum, the part of the AR-15. He helped him hide it at his house so Connor Betts' parents wouldn't see it. All this happening after the family, the Bett's family released two

obituaries, one for their fallen daughter and one for the shooter himself. And that sort cause a little friction in the community because people, obviously, are mourning this. And they don't want to seem like the shooter is glorified at all.

You could not understand the loss those parents probably feeling, but they only put out one statement in the last seven days and maybe we are wondering if they will have further statements in the next few days after all of this have been discovered.

With all this going on, police are still working this case, trying to discover what the motive is. We do have that timeline. The timeline sort of provides a picture of Connor Betts going to bar after bar, and then going back to his car at some point, leaving his friend and his sister as they were figuring out they are going to a taco stand. At some point, he grabs a large rifle, gets it all ammoed up and then puts on his body armor, and goes out and starts shooting people. Well, that is according to the timeline the police have.

Then you have those Dayton police officers who are able to respond so very quickly to it, and put him down within 35 seconds or so. When you think about all this case, there's so much still going on here The wounds are still very much open. Hopefully some of the healing will begin --Brooke.

[15:05:13] BALDWIN: Hopefully so, Ryan. Thank you very much, Ryan Young in Dayton.

And one of the leading candidates in the 2020 presidential race has just released her plans for gun control, specifically keeping guns from domestic terrorists. I'm talking about Democratic senator Kamala Harris, former attorney general for the state of California, makes deterring hate crime a big factor in her plan.

CNN's Kyung Lah is following the Harris campaign.

So Kyung, give us the details of senator Harris' proposal.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well essentially, this Brooke, is her response to what we have been saying in the last couple weeks. It comes less than two weeks after the El Paso shooting. It comes two years after the violence in Charlottesville. This is her way of trying to attack these mass shootings and domestic terror by targeting the guns themselves. Trying to keep them out of the hands of the terrorists.

So here are the details of that. You can see that there's a three- point plan there. She wants to temporarily seize the guns of domestic terrorists. What that essentially is, is a federal red flag law. That if you hear that someone is spewing hate speech and they have guns, this would give them the power to go to someone, and then that federal agency would be able to seize those weapons going to a judge.

Also, going to background checks, when it comes to online sales, that is something that gun control advocates say is a loophole, and she want to close loophole. And then investing, reinvesting $2 billion over 10 years to combat hate. And that's something that she feels is within the power of the federal authority to try to figure out where the hate is coming from and try to combat it, whether it be online or through other agencies.

One of he thing Brooke and she just kept that from a five-day bus tour across Iowa. And nearly every single stop she talked about gun violence. And she talked about her frustration with the lack of action in Congress. And what she is focusing on as well when it comes to those background checks is using executive authority if Congress fails to act within the first 100 days -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: You just provided my segue on the frustration, Kyung. Thank you very much.

There has been no shortage of talk about gun control on the Democratic campaign trail, but where is Congress on this?. Lawmakers, they are on vacation right now. But there is word according to congressional staffers that quote-unquote informal talks are happening for some kind of legislation on expanding background checks. The discussions have been between White House officials and the staff of these senators, Democrats Chris Murphy and Joe Manchin and republican Pat Toomey. So let's start there.

With me now April Ryan who is White House correspondent for "American Urban Radio Networks" and Jeff Mason, of course, covers the White House for Reuters. Great to have you here in New York.


BALDWIN: Just starting with you. When you hear that these talks are informal and not substantive, according to one official. How serious are these conversations?

RYAN: Not substantive is the key piece right there. We have been hearing about these talks, hearing about these talks forever.

I have been in Washington for 22 years. I remember when there were shootings, Columbine, so many things that happened. They were talking about closing the gun show loophole. Now HR-8 that is in the House. That is to close the gun show loophole as well as the online loophole for buying guns.

But we are not just talking those loopholes, we are talking about assault weapons bans. So it's a lot about a lot that's not moving. And the problem is people are dying and HR-8 has passed in the House, but the Senate won't do it.

And not only that, you have the NRA that is telling the president no. Remember Parkland? The president was all for background checks when he heard the people in that town hall, those young people pushed the president of the United States.

BALDWIN: I know, the townhall. He's made promises --

RYAN: The NRA -- that's right. The NRA told him so.

BALDWIN: How about Ivanka Trump? Because we know she is -- she is apparently picked up the phone. She is talking to lawmakers. She apparently is pressing her dad, the President of the United States, on background checks. How much sway do you think she has?

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Well, number one, she is probably not doing that without her father's blessing and that means something. I think the President -- April is 100 percent right and you are right, that the President has moved back before when he said he was in favor of gun control. And then sort of did a complete 180 after the NRA.

He hasn't changed this time despite having some pushback again from the NRA. He said just yesterday, I was with him when he traveled to Pennsylvania and we talked to him at the airport that he is still in favor of meaningful background checks. And he would like to have something by the time Congress gets back to session in September.

That doesn't mean it's going to be some sort of a really advanced bill like many Democrats would like, but there might be something. That also doesn't mean it's going to be passed. But it sounds like at least incrementally for a Republican president that there might be something to put on the table.

[15:10:06] BALDWIN: It is a great point. That she wouldn't have to have his blessing now to make those phone calls.

Can we talk Steve King?

RYAN: Do we have to?

BALDWIN: We are talking Steve King. When ask about Republican Steve King, obviously, he has a history of making racist, bizarre, offensive remarks. And so he was asked, this is what he said when he was asked, why he doesn't support allowing exceptions for rape or incest for anti-abortion legislation. Here he was.


REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: What if we weren't back through all the family trees and just pulled those people out. They were product of rape ad incest. Would there be any population left if we did that? Considering all the wars and all the rape (INAUDIBLE) that have taken place, and whatever happened, a culture after society, I know I can't certify that because I am not part of the product to that.


RYAN: What do you say after that? I mean, he is limited at the most. I keep saying this about so many people nowadays, they are limited.

Something is wrong there, he said so many different things. But let me tell you what's happening from what I'm hearing at the White House and in Washington. I hear the President feels it's a big distraction especially as he is not so sure about Iowa. So that doesn't play well for the President.

Evangelicals are very upset about this and they want something done, but they also don't want to go out publicly against this man. So there is a catch 22 here. But they are very concerned. From what I am hearing, there are some Republicans who want him out and they want him gone.

BALDWIN: Well, he has been primaried. We know that. I want to read this and I want your thoughts, Mr. Mason here.

We know that senator Booker has called on him to resign. I will read his tweet guys. This is what senator Booker just put out.

Iowans have long deserved better than Steve King and his hateful insulting words. He should resign. We can show him it's time to go by donating to the guy who will beat him, my inspiring friend.

And apparently, Julian Castro has also called for his resignation as well.


MASON: This is what those comments do politically. For the Republicans, it puts a lot of pressure on them to separate themselves from him, from those comments, from those ideas.

For the Republicans -- excuse me. for the Democrats it gives them a way very, very easily to show a difference between the two parties.

Now representative King obviously doesn't represent all Republicans with those comments.

BALDWIN: Of course.

MASON: That's not 100 percent clear. But he does provide a contrast on issues, social issues such as abortion. That give Democrats a little bit of heft to say, look, this is what the other side is saying. And that is what I think we are hearing from some of these presidential candidates.

RYAN: But this is a man who has said so many different things out of the side of his eyeball and out of the side of his neck about race, it doesn't land well. But at the same time, this is happening and this is being said. The President tomorrow, you know, he has got people coming to the White House, even though he is not there that are going to be dealing with matters of race.

Steve King is the guy who throws out a lot of racially charged statements. And this President now is trying to deal with issues of race. He doesn't like being called a racist. And then you have Steve King who is considered a racist saying this. And at the White House tomorrow, there are going to be like five or six people trying to change the President's image on matter of race. So the Steve King comment and Steve King right now is a huge albatross around this president's neck, go figure. BALDWIN: Yes. But will he say anything, do you think? I mean, look

at what the president has and hasn't said in the past about the things he said.

MASON: Hard to say. I mean , the issue of race is a tricky one for President Trump by lots of different levels. He is doing a rally tomorrow night in New Hampshire, so he may have a chance to talk to reporters at the airport again. I guarantee you some will laugh.

BALDWIN: Yes, I'm sure.

April and Jeff, thank you both so much.

RYAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, my conversation with the man who represented accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein, in more than a dozen civil cases. His reaction to the new reports, that jail failed to check on Epstein for three hours after they have ultimately found him dead.

Plus, the man in charge of this country's immigration policy tries to clarify his revision of the statue of liberty poem, but that only really made it worse.

And later, Jay-Z teams up with the NFL, despite his past criticism of how the league treated Colin Kaepernick. We will discuss what that partnership could look like.

You are watching CNN. I'm Brook Baldwin. We will be right back.


[15:19:15] BALDWIN: Questions continue to swirl around the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the multimillionaire with ties to the rich and powerful who was found dead in a Manhattan jail cell over the weekend. Epstein who was on suicide watch just a few weeks ago, before being removed was being housed in a protective unit.

And now "the New York Times" is reporting that two staffers guarding that unit failed to check on him for about three hours. The typical schedule should be checking on him every half hour. Their typical schedule should be taking on him every half an hour. Officials tell the Times that those staffers have now hired attorneys and they are not talking.

My next guest is Michael Pike. He represented Jeffrey Epstein in approximately 20 different civil cases.

So Michael, thank you so much for joining me today.


BALDWIN: So when you first heard that Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail cell over the weekend, what was your first thought? [15:20:06] PIKE: You know, I think the first shock for myself and for

everyone is that they were appalled. For something like this to happen in the bureau of prisons at MCC with the most high profile inmate that they probably had and/or currently have is unheard of and in my opinion impossible to understand.

BALDWIN: Who do you think is responsible?

PIKE: You know, there's a lot of conspiracy theories going around. I'm personally not going to commit to one or any of them. But I will say this I find it highly odd and neglect that the 30 minute checks were not properly performed on Mr. Epstein during the time when he was incarcerated there.

I also find it very odd that his cell mate was transferred out reasonably close to the time of the incident. And finally, I think it's very odd that there have been reports that one of the officers on duty was not in a formal correctional officer. These types of issues that have been presented make it easy for conspiracy theorists to run rampant on the internet.

BALDWIN: But you are saying you yourself do not subscribe to conspiracy theories. You pointed those different examples. I mean, do you point the finger -- just quickly, I'm just trying to understand. If you are in prison, Trump's DOJ, who ultimately is to blame?

PIKE: I think the bureau of prisons is ultimately to blame. And I think that once the formal investigation is complete and released, you will see that the certain policies and procedures that were in effect at MCC were not followed at all.

BALDWIN: right. Let's talk about you, and your relationship with Epstein. Take me back to when you represented him in Florida. And you know, you had time with him, you met with him, one on one behind closed doors. I mean, what was the man like?

PIKE: Well, unfortunately, the attorney client privilege survives the death of the client. No matter who the client is. So my impression of him would be protected and I unfortunately, cannot disclose my impressions in that regard.

BALDWIN: OK. So even though I'm not asking about case, it is just even behavior or personality, that sort of thing is out of bounds.

PIKE: That's protected by the attorney/client privilege.

BALDWIN: OK. You were not his attorney at the time of the 2007 non- prosecution agreement in Florida, which you know, has referred as a deal of a lifetime, after so many women came forward back then. Just your own opinion, Michael, why do you think he received such a so called sweetheart deal?

PIKE: I have no opinion on that deal. The non-prosecution agreement was entered into the United States and Mr. Epstein struck a deal and Mr. Epstein followed that deal. BALDWIN: So let me just ask you this, since what you did agree to

comment on. What do you want to comment on? What do you like to share with everyone watching about Mr. Epstein.

PIKE: Well, I think no matter which side of the fence you are on, whether or not you are a plaintiff or a defense attorney, I don't think that this was the ultimate outcome that anyone wanted. And I think that there's negligence to be had on the bureau of prisons. I think that they needed to have eyes on Mr. Epstein as a very prominent inmate. They should have had the 30 minute checks, if not 15 minute checks on Mr. Epstein, given the amount of money that the United States spent investigating this case,. To have someone pass away under their watch is extremely horrific and wrong.

BALDWIN: What about the women who feel like justice will never be served because they won't get to come face to face with Epstein in court. What will you say to them?

PIKE: Well again, I think that both sides, no matter whether it's a plaintiff or a defendant, both sides did not want this outcome. So I think what you are going to see is a number of lawsuits filed against the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. And a lot of people scrambling to substitute the estate in for the deceased defendant.

[15:25:06] BALDWIN: Michael Pike, thank you for joining me.

Coming up next, the backlash against immigration chief Ken Cuccinelli for trying rewrite the poem, the hallowed words on the statue of liberty. I will talk to a historian who studied the author intensively and says she found a group of sixth graders who have a better understanding of its meaning.