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Democrats Aim For Speedy Impeachment Push As Trump Threatens Whistleblower; CNN Tracks Down Ukrainians Mentioned By Whistleblower; Saudi Crown Prince Denies Ordering Kashoggi Murder. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired September 30, 2019 - 05:30   ET



CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Chairman Schiff confirming there is now a tentative agreement for the whistleblower to testify before his committee. He says the president's threats have heightened security concerns for the whistleblower.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): All that needs to be done at this point is to make sure that the attorneys that represent the whistleblower get the clearances that they need to be able to accompany the whistleblower to testimony and that we figure out the logistics to make sure that we protect the identity of the whistleblower. That's our paramount concern here.


ROMANS: Schiff says he expects the whistleblower will testify soon.

DAVE BRIGGS, CNN ANCHOR: Meantime, the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is refusing to commit to a response to a House subpoena.

Intel chairman Adam Schiff telling CBS he plans to subpoena documents and perhaps testimony about the Ukraine affair from Giuliani.


SCOTT PELLEY, CBS CORRESPONDENT, "60 MINUTES": Will you call Rudy Giuliani?

SCHIFF: We're going to need evidence from Rudy Giuliani and it's our intention as soon as first thing next week to subpoena him for documents. And there very well may come a time where we want to hear from him directly.


BRIGGS: Giuliani was noncommittal to CNN. Quote, "I'm not saying I will or will not."

On ABC, he said this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I wouldn't cooperate with Adam Schiff. I think Adam Schiff should be removed. If they remove Adam Schiff, if they put a neutral person in who hasn't prejudged the case, if they put someone in -- a Democrat who hasn't expressed an opinion --


GIULIANI: I didn't say that. I said I will consider it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you wouldn't do it.

GIULIANI: I said --

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you will not cooperate with Adam Schiff.

GIULIANI: I said I will consider it. I have to be guided by my client, frankly. I'm a lawyer.

It's his privilege, not mine. If he decides that he wants me to testify, of course, I'll testify, even though I think Adam Schiff is an illegitimate chairman.


ROMANS: House and Senate Republicans rushing to President Trump's defense on the Ukraine issue, employing a variety of tactics and talking points on Sunday.

Senator Lindsey Graham honing in on the whistleblower's report as hearsay even though the report was confirmed by the White House's own transcript of the president's call with the president of Ukraine.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): This seems to me like a political setup. It's all hearsay. You can't get a parking ticket conviction based on hearsay. The whistleblower didn't hear the phone call.


ROMANS: And, Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan hammering away on these talking points about alleged corruption by Joe Biden and his son, Hunter, a claim for which there is zero evidence.


REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): And then when the company that's paying him that money is under investigation, guess what? Daddy comes running to the rescue. The vice president of the United States comes running to the rescue.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": That's not what happened.

JORDAN: Fire that -- fire that prosecutor.

TAPPER: Sir, that's not what happened. The European Union, the Obama administration --

JORDAN: But nothing --

TAPPER: -- the International Monetary Fund, pro-clean government activists in Ukraine thought that the prosecutor --

JORDAN: You're saying --

TAPPER: -- was not prosecuting corruption.

JORDAN: You're saying Joe Biden didn't tell -- didn't tell Ukraine to fire the prosecutor? I think he did.

TAPPER: He did, but the guy was --

JORDAN: He bragged about it.

TAPPER: The guy was not prosecuting anything.


ROMANS: That was simply remarkable -- a few minutes of television there.

House minority leader Kevin McCarthy -- he tangled with "60 MINUTES'" Scott Pelley over the president's use of the word "though" in his call with the Ukrainian president. McCarthy insisted Trump did not use the word. You can see it in the transcript right there provided by the White House.

TEXT: "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."

ROMANS: Pelley saying, look, here's the transcript right in front of me.


PELLEY: President Trump replies, I would like you to do us a favor, though.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): You just added another word.

PELLEY: No, it's in the transcript.

MCCARTHY: He said I'd like you to do a favor, though?

PELLEY: Yes, it's in the -- it's in the White House transcript.

MCCARTHY: When I read the transcript --


BRIGGS: President Trump's first Homeland Security adviser says he is deeply disturbed by the president's actions in the Ukraine controversy. Tom Bossert telling ABC he repeatedly warned the president that a Ukraine conspiracy Mr. Trump was pushing had been completed debunked.


TOM BOSSERT, FORMER ADVISER, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: And at this point, I am deeply frustrated with what he and the legal team is doing in repeating that debunked theory to the president. It sticks in his mind when he hears it over and over again. And for clarity here, George, let me just, again, repeat that it has no validity.



In addition to requesting a probe of the Bidens, Trump also asked the president of Ukraine to look into whether a computer based in Ukraine had been used to hack Democratic servers. In other words, the possibility Ukraine had meddled in the U.S. elections, not Russia.

Bossert says he told Trump again and again that simply wasn't true, to no effect.

ROMANS: A remarkable weekend in the Ukraine mess.

All right. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi talking to her caucus about the Trump impeachment inquiry. More on what she said, next.



ROMANS: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi telling her caucus in a Sunday afternoon phone call that the impeachment inquiry is not about politics or partisanship, it's about patriotism. Pelosi also spoke to CBS "60 MINUTES."


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We could not ignore what the president did. He gave us no choice. So it wasn't any change of mind. I always said we will follow the facts where they take us and when we see them we will be ready, and we are ready.


BRIGGS: New polling shows Americans' opinion shifting on impeachment.

A CBS News-YOUGOV poll finds 55 percent believe an impeachment inquiry by Congress is necessary. As usual, a sharp partisan split here. Most Republicans disapprove of an inquiry. Most Democrats support one. Independents are closely divided. And an ABC New-IPSOS poll asked how serious of a problem is it that President Trump encouraged the president of Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, with nearly two-thirds saying it's serious. About a third say it is not.


ROMANS: Let's talk about that polling and the bonkers weekend in the Ukraine mess. Joining us here in New York, Princeton University historian and professor, Julian Zelizer, a CNN political analyst. Good morning, Julian.


ROMANS: First, on that polling.

I mean, this is why you hear from so many Democrats. They want to keep any kind of inquiry here very focused, very efficient on the Ukraine issue alone. Don't let this become some of a three-headed monster. Make it very focused because they think that the American people will come along.

ZELIZER: Sure, this is a national security issue and they think this is a winning argument in terms of how a president abuses power. So they want to keep it focused while President Trump is going to try to muddy the waters, as will his surrogates.

BRIGGS: And the president very active, as you might imagine, on Twitter last night -- 15 tweets last night alone after 7:00 p.m. A lot of noise there.

Any particular theme or tweet individually that stands out for you?

ZELIZER: Well, threat, threat, threat. Retweeting a comment that this is going to lead to a civil war is threatening the Democrats about what they're going to unleash and what is to come.

And obviously, threatening the whistleblower, which is what he's doing when he says I want to meet him is both dangerous and it's a signal he's sending to everyone who might testify in front of Congress.

ROMANS: And he accuses another U.S. official -- whoever informed the whistleblower. He accuses that person of spying on him. He questioned a United States chairman and said that person should be questioned for treason.


ROMANS: I mean, this is the highest office in the land and this is the thought process last night.

ZELIZER: Well, that's what's interesting to watch is how he acts since the impeachment investigation starts. And in many ways, he's giving signs of how he abuses his power in response to the investigation.

I think Speaker Pelosi understands this dynamic. It's let watch him react, and that's going to be as important to the Congress as anything else.

BRIGGS: Now, you have said that you think there is a possibility that Republicans come around on impeachment. But, Lindsey Graham, when asked by CBS on Sunday, is there anything unethical about the president's call with the Ukrainian president said no -- nothing unethical about that call.

That call was very clear that the president leaned on a foreign head of state to meddle in our election. Nothing unethical from Lindsey Graham.

ZELIZER: Well, I understand the odds are very low and Republicans have been incredibly loyal to the party and to the president. But I've studied history enough to know nothing's inevitable and facts on the ground can change things.

That's what happened with Watergate. The impeachment investigation changed how Republicans thought of Richard Nixon.

So the question now is do 20 Republicans in the Senate -- in the long- run, are they persuaded by whatever comes out of this? National security questions, excessive presidential power questions, the short- term interests of the party, and law and order. Do these kinds of arguments about the president ultimately sway some Republicans? Nothing's impossible.

ROMANS: In the meantime, you've got Congressman Jim Jordan just pushing these talking points, saying over and over --


ROMANS: -- again corruption, Ukraine, Biden, his son, $50,000. You know, like repeating just little elements of this conspiracy theory to get that to be the drumbeat. You -- that people --

BRIGGS: In the bloodstream, yes.

ROMANS: -- who listen to right-wing radio may believe.

What should -- what do you think that the Biden team should do?

ZELIZER: It's very difficult. In the end, Biden might be collateral damage of this process because the story just keeps getting out there.

All Biden can do is keep attention focused on the president, so they have to have their people out there keeping Americans focused on the big issue. It's not about a debunked story, it's about the president abusing power. Whether Biden can do that, that's an open question.

BRIGGS: Yes, and Nancy Pelosi says it doesn't matter if they lose the House, it doesn't matter if they lose Joe Biden as the party's nominee. A lot -- a long, long, long road ahead. The public needs to be

convinced of all this.

Julian Zelizer, good to see you, sir.

ROMANS: Thanks.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

ROMANS: All right.

CNN tracked down two Ukrainian men mentioned in that whistleblower report. More on what they told us in a live report from Kiev, next.



BRIGGS: CNN tracked down two of the Ukrainian men mentioned in the whistleblower complaint at the center of the Trump impeachment inquiry. One of them met with Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani.

Chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward standing by live in Kiev with the latest. Clarissa, good morning. What are you learning?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, basically, Dave, we sat down with a man who is called Andrii Telizhenko. He was a former diplomat working in the Ukrainian embassy in the U.S.

And he became known in Washington circles because he was really pushing unsubstantiated claims that elements of the Ukrainian government had colluded with the Democrats in order to try to swing the election against President Trump back in 2016.

Telizhenko told us that Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, reached out to him back in May. That he went to New York, that the two men sat down for about six hours and they discovered -- discussed, rather, a range of issues, including what Telizhenko's thoughts were on former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden who, of course, has been the focus of much speculation because of his role of sitting on the board of the Ukrainian energy holding company.


And also, they discussed this issue of what Telizhenko claims was collusion. Again, those claims have never been substantiated.

Telizhenko says that after the meeting he went on to meet with Giuliani another two or three times and that they discussed similar issues, although that it was less politically focused and more an issue of talking about friendly issues.

But all of this going to show that no matter what side of the political spectrum you fall on here in Ukraine, people do seem to be in agreement that Rudy Giuliani was pushing very hard to dig up dirt on the Bidens and on this issue of what he believed to be collusion between Ukrainian officials and the Democrats back in that 2016 election, Dave.

BRIGGS: And how long Ukraine can try to be Switzerland in this case. Appreciate the reporting. Clarissa Ward, live in Ukraine.

The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia says he takes full responsibility for the death of "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi but he also denies ordering the killing. The CIA believes Prince Mohammad bin Salman ordered the murder inside the Saudi consulate in Turkey last year.

In a "60 MINUTES" interview Sunday, the Crown Prince was asked directly about the murder.


NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS HOST, "FACE THE NATION": Did you order the murder of Jamal Kashoggi?

MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA (through translator): Absolutely not. This was a heinous crime. But I take full responsibility as a leader in Saudi Arabia, especially since it was committed by individuals working for the Saudi government.

O'DONNELL: What does that mean that you take responsibility?

BIN SALMAN: When a crime is committed against a Saudi citizen by officials working for the Saudi government, as a leader, I must take responsibility. This was a mistake and I must take all actions to avoid such a thing in the future.


BRIGGS: To this day, Khashoggi's remains have not been found.

Five high-ranking Saudi officials were dismissed, another 18 detained in connection with Khashoggi's death. The Crown Prince says an investigation is being carried out and once charges are proven against someone they will be prosecuted regardless of rank.

ROMANS: Some breaking news this morning.

Three of the four inmates who escaped from a Southern Ohio jail have been recaptured now. The fourth inmate managed to escape the police manhunt.

Authorities say the inmates used a homemade weapon to overpower two female guards. They were able to force open a secure door and escape early Sunday morning, according to the Gallia County sheriff. The inmates were helped in their escape by at least one person on the outside.

BRIGGS: Malawi is the latest stop on Prince Harry's royal tour of Africa. The Duke of Sussex visiting with students at a school there on Sunday. Although the duchess and baby Archie did not make the trip she did Skype in. One of Meghan's key causes is supporting girls' education.

Max Foster joining us live from Johannesburg, South Africa with more. Max, good morning.


Yes, today is about anti-poaching projects in Malawi.

Prince Harry writing in "The Telegraph" today that he wants to get rid of this stigma -- this hippie stigma attached to caring about conservation. He said he's issuing a rallying cry for humankind to overcome greed, apathy, and selfishness to guarantee its survival on the planet. He's very concerned about the future of the planet and how humans aren't conserving the environment that we all live in.

And during that visit in Malawi, as you say, a surprise dial-in from his wife, the Duchess of Sussex, who dialed into this visit during -- at a girls' school where everyone was quite surprised to see her there -- really talking to her key issue, which is women's empowerment.

Something that again came up during a private visit that she made in Cape Town to this memorial of a young girl who was brutally murdered in Cape Town. She tied a ribbon and wrote a message there, which was an image that went viral. It was just an image taken on a phone by a palace staffer but it really hit a nerve in this country and beyond.

Now, tomorrow, the whole family gather again here in Johannesburg -- a meeting with Nelson Mandela's widow, Graca Machel, and another visit to a township as well. So we're expecting to see a lot of cameras following the full family and perhaps Archie appearing again, too, Dave.

BRIGGS: We equally await that.

Max Foster joining us live from Johannesburg. Thank you, sir.

Back here, a severe, historic, early-season snowstorm blanketing parts of Montana with several feet of snow. Weekend totals climbed to 40 inches in some areas.

Montana's Gov. Steve Bullock declaring a winter emergency as downed trees and powerlines made icy roads even more dangerous.

Seven western states broke records with low temperatures, strong winds, and blizzard conditions this weekend should continue today.

ROMANS: And it's only the last day of September.

BRIGGS: Believe it or now.


ROMANS: All right, let's get a check on "CNN Business" this Monday morning.

First, a look at global markets. A mixed performance around the world here.

And on Wall Street, futures have been pointing a little bit higher here. Stocks, though, fell on Friday -- lower for the week on reports the White House is considering limiting U.S. investment flows to China. That got a lot of attention.

The Dow down 0.4 percent, the S&P 500 down one percent, and the Nasdaq dropped 2.2 percent for the week. This is the last trading day of what has really been a resilient month for stocks. The Dow was up almost three percent, the S&P up almost two, and the Nasdaq up almost one percent.

Elon Musk said it might be cheaper than he thought to build a rocket that could fly humans into orbit.


ELON MUSK, CEO, SPACEX: I mean, I think it's probably closer to two or three than it is to 10.


ROMANS: Two or three billion dollars than $10 billion.

Over the weekend, Musk unveiled the 160-foot-tall rocket prototype and the Spacex CEO said building a starship out of stainless steel instead of modern carbon fiber materials was key to making this design cheaper and more durable.

Spacex hopes to send an un-crewed flight to earth's orbit within six months. As for passengers --


MUSK: If the development continues to improve exponentially, then I think we could -- we could be sending people to orbit before the end of next year.


ROMANS: Private space flight.

NASA's chief said of Musk's pretty ambitious time line, quote, "It's time to deliver."

Another iconic retail brand has failed -- has filed for bankruptcy. Forever 21 filed for chapter 11 Sunday. The chain plans to close up to 178 of its stores. The popular teenage clothing chain is the latest to file for bankruptcy.

Many retailers have been struggling. The increase in online shopping has cut foot traffic to malls and brick and mortar stores. So far, retailers have announced more than 8,200 store closings this year.

BRIGGS: New CNN polls show Democratic presidential candidates knotted up in Nevada while Biden leads in South Carolina. In Nevada, former vice president Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders both at

22 percent; Elizabeth Warren at 18 among likely caucusgoers. No one else above five percent on that poll.

In South Carolina, Biden holds a commanding lead, up 37 percent to Warren's 16. Sanders at 11 percent. Biden's big lead in South Carolina due primarily to his popularity among black voters. Forty- five percent of black voters chose him compared to 13 percent for Sanders and just four percent for Warren.

"SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" returning for its 45th season and wasting no time spoofing Trump's impeachment inquiry and, of course, Rudy Giuliani.

Here's your "Late-Night Laughs."



ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR (PORTRAYING PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP), NBC "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": What do you mean, what's new, Rudy? I'm being impeached. It's the greatest presidential harassment of all time -- I would know.


BALDWIN: I'm like the president of harassment.

MCKINNON: You've got to relax, Mr. Trump. We've got nothing to worry about. Nobody's going to find out about our illegal side dealings with the Ukraine --


MCKINNON: -- or how we tried to cover up those side dealings --


MCKINNON: -- or how we plan to cover up the cover-up.

BALDWIN: Look, Rudy, where are you right now?

MCKINNON: I'm on CNN right now. Let me put you on speaker.

BALDWIN: Rudy, get out of there and whatever you do, stay off the phone. I've got another call --

MCKINNON: All right.

BALDWIN: -- OK. Who is this?


BALDWIN: Bill, I'm really starting to worry.

BRYANT: Well, stay calm, Mr. President. I know things look bad right now but I got our top guy on this.

BALDWIN: Good. Well, let's get him on the phone, too.


BALDWIN: Damn it, Rudy.

MCKINNON: Oh, hey, Mr. President.

BALDWIN: Rudy Giuliani, you're not still on CNN, are you?

MCKINNON: Of course not.


MCKINNON: I'm on the Joe Rogan podcast.


BRIGGS: It begs the question is Rudy doing a lot of help or harm for the president out there?

ROMANS: I don't know. I love that Chris Cuomo signage, though.

BRIGGS: Yes, it's a nice plug there.

ROMANS: All right, thanks for joining us this Monday morning, last day of September. I'm Christine Romans.

BRIGGS: I'm Dave Briggs. "NEW DAY" starts right now. We'll see you in October.


SCHIFF: The president believes it is his God-given right to shake down foreign leaders for help in his reelection.

JORDAN: The Democrats want to impeach because Rudy Giuliani talked to a couple of Ukrainians and good luck with that.

PELOSI: We could not ignore what the president did. He gave us no choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This whistleblower allegation is so serious it gets to the very heart of our nation's democracy.

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: If you read the 7-page little Nancy Drew novel that the whistleblower put together, it drips with condescension, righteous indignation, and contempt for the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Donald Trump has been caught red-handed with his hand in the taxpayer cookie jar.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Monday, September 30th, 6:00 here in New York.

John Berman is off today. Jim Sciutto joins me. Great to have you here.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And very nice to be here.

CAMEROTA: It was a busy weekend.

SCIUTTO: There was a lot going on.

CAMEROTA: Yes. It promises to be a busy Monday.

So, we begin with the developments in the impeachment inquiry. President Trump escalated his attacks on the anonymous whistleblower, demanding to meet --