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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Ukraine's President: "No One Can Put Pressure On Me"; Rudy Giuliani Lawyers Up, Hires Watergate Prosecutor; British PM: No Hard Border In Ireland; Chef takes Ancient Grain Mainstream; Japanese Company Ramps Up Production To Battle Water Waste; Prince Harry And Meghan Sue U.K. Tabloid. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 1, 2019 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London on this Tuesday, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, all the president's men: Donald Trump gets backing by loyal supporters from the State Department to the Justice Department. The latest
from Washington as the U.S. secretary of state threatens not to cooperate with Congress.
Also this hour, all eyes are on Hong Kong. Dramatic footage coming in today as protestors vow not to stop until all of their demands are met, and
police use live ammunition today in a worrying escalation of violence.
Developments in the impeachment inquiry of U.S. President Donald Trump are happening so fast, it's getting hard to keep track. But this hour, we're
going to break down for you who is doing what, and why.
Today, the president's men are circling the wagons as the administration tries to fend off even more damaging allegations. Secretary of State Mike
Pompeo is now rejecting House committee requests to interview key officials from his department over the next two weeks, saying it's an attempt to
intimidate and bully them.
TEXT: Impeachment Inquiry: Pompeo rejecting Democratic requests to interview key officials soon; Source: Pompeo listened to Trump's call with
Ukrainian president; Source: Attorney General Bill Barr encouraged Trump to ask Australia for info on origins of Russia probe
GORANI: This comes after reports surfaced that Pompeo himself was listening to Mr. Trump's July phone call with the Ukrainian president,
after not making that clear at all.
We also now know that Attorney General Bill Barr has played a key role in trying to gather information meant to discredit the Mueller report. A
source says, at Barr's urging, President Trump asked Australia for help in investigating the origins of the Russia probe.
TEXT: Impeachment Inquiry: Giuliani accusing Democratic lawmakers of "prejudging" his case
GORANI: Meantime, Mr. Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is lashing out at Democratic lawmakers who subpoenaed his documents, accusing them of
prejudging the case.
TEXT: Trump-appointed Inspector General refuting President's attempts to discredit whistleblower
GORANI: But there's this interesting development. At least one Trump administration official is pushing back against the president. The
inspector general who alerted Congress to the whistleblower complaint is now publicly refuting Mr. Trump's claims that it -- this complaint was not
legitimate. And he's appointed by the president.
Let's break all of this down for you. Our crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz joins me now. Let's talk about, now, all of these
countries and their reports of travels by Bill Barr, the attorney general, to Italy and other places, and now, Australia being dragged into all of
this. Tell us more about that.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. A lot of countries here, certainly allies of us, people that are a part of what's called the
Five Eyes, this is the intelligence group of, really, foreign countries, including the U.S., all working together for intelligence purposes. And
what happened is, during the time and the lead-up to the Russia investigation, there were a lot of countries that were involved, were
And Australia, by some accounts, is where all this really started. It's how this investigation originated, the Russia investigation. It was a top
diplomat there, in Australia, who was in London and met with George Papadopoulos, a former campaign advisor to President Donald Trump, where
Papadopoulos talked about how he had information, was getting information, dirt on the Hillary Clinton campaign, on her. And so that official, that
top diplomat, alerted the FBI, alerted U.S. officials to this. And, in some respects, it is how the entire Russia investigation started.
So what's been going on is that the president has ordered, as we know, the attorney general, the Department of Justice to investigate the origin of
this entire investigation. Obviously, you know, some believe he's doing it to try and discredit Mueller, probably so.
And so as part of that investigation, the president had conversations with the prime minister of Australia to say, hey, please cooperate with the
Department of Justice in this inquiry, in this review of the Russia investigation. And we're told by the Department of Justice that it was at
the urging of the attorney general, Bill Barr, that the president had this conversation with the prime minister of Australia, asking him to cooperate.
As far as officials here, in terms of the Department of Justice, they don't see anything wrong with this conversation that the president had. But of
course, because of Ukraine and those conversations, everything that the president is doing in these conversations with foreign leaders is being
questioned and is being scrutinized, quite frankly.
GORANI: But let me -- when they say there's nothing wrong with the attorney general, the top law enforcement official in the United States,
asking foreign intelligence agencies to help them in their investigation of their country's own intelligence services. When they say there's nothing
wrong with that, is that technically legally there's nothing wrong with that?
PROKUPECZ: So --
GORANI: But this just sounds like something that is not a run-of-the-mill thing, right? Have previous administrations done things similar to this?
PROKUPECZ: No, this is very different. Certainly it's not something that has been done by other administrations. There have been reviews by the
Obama administration, of certain things that perhaps the CIA was doing. But when you have the attorney general so heavily involved in something
like this, yes, that's kind of strange and unprecedented, and we haven't seen that.
There is a U.S. attorney, someone lower -- a lower-level person at the Department of Justice who's been looking at this. But what we're seeing
here and what's really striking, is the fact that the attorney general has been front and center in all of this, speaking to the president directly,
telling the president, in some ways, what he needs, what he wants the president to do, and the president acting on it.
It certainly is very strange, how this entire thing is being handled, and the fact that the attorney general is so heavily involved. And, like you
said earlier, I mean, he's traveling, he's going to Italy, meeting with --
GORANI: Right, right.
PROKUPECZ: -- officials in Italy about this. It's very bizarre.
GORANI: And Britain as well?
PROKUPECZ: And Britain --
GORANI: According to reports?
PROKUPECZ: Yes, according to reports.
And the other thing that's really strange is that this conversation that Trump had with the Australian prime minister, was also in this place, on
this system within the White House for Top Secret clearance systems. So all of this, very strange. And, obviously, why so many people are asking
questions, really, of the Department of Justice and the White House.
GORANI: Right, sure. And then there are other men, obviously, in the president's orbit. The secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, this is what we'll
explore next. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much --
GORANI: -- for joining us.
Let's talk more about the revelation now. So we just talked about Bill Barr, the attorney general. But the revelation that the secretary of
state, Mike Pompeo, not only knew about Mr. Trump's call with Ukraine's president, but that he was actually on the call itself.
Now, Pompeo has been, at best, evasive about the issue, when asked by the media. Critics say that description is too charitable, calling his
response, at minimum, disingenuous.
Now, just to refresh everyone's memory, watch this clip from September 22nd, when Mike Pompeo was asked about the call, and decide for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC ANCHOR, THIS WEEK: What do you know about those conversations?
MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: So you just gave me a report about an I.C. whistleblower complaint, none of which I've seen.
RADDATZ: Do you think it's, quote, "perfectly fine" to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political opponent?
POMPEO: I think I saw a statement from the Ukrainian foreign minister yesterday, said there was no pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, it is reportedly the case that we are learning -- national security reporter Kylie Atwood, who joins us live in Washington -- that in
fact, Mike Pompeo was on that call. But in that interview, he seemed to indicate that he had limited knowledge of it.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. Well, in that interview, he made a pivot there, right? When he was asked about the call
and what he knew, he then spoke about the whistleblower inspector general report, which he claimed that he had not seen.
Now, last week in New York, as soon as that report was made public, he actually spoke to reporters and, given that it had just been released, he
again claimed he had not seen the report.
But when he spoke with reporters, he said that, to his knowledge, everyone at the State Department had acted entirely properly, that there was no
misconduct, as far as he knew. But did not say anything about the fact that he was on that call, which is right now at the center of this
whistleblower complaint, and also the investigation going on, on the Hill.
We are also learning, however, that the secretary of state, he has tweeted out the letter that he sent to those Hill committees because they requested
for five State Department officials to show up at the Hill over the next few weeks for depositions. And he said no.
He said that the dates that they gave were not feasible, and he said that - - essentially, there were both legal and procedural problems with what they had requested from him. So he came out with a long extensive response to
the Hill's request for these depositions, so we now need to see how it's going to go forward.
But it is going to be an extended fight here. This is not one that the State Department and the White House are willing to give up on, and that is
clear from the secretary's letter that he sent to the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee today.
GORANI: And can he prevent these testimonies from taking place? What are his actual powers here with this -- in this regard?
ATWOOD: Well, one of the arguments that he makes in the letter is that these officials weren't subpoenaed. So they have no --
ATWOOD: -- legal requirement to show up at these hearings. But they could be subpoenaed, so the --
GORANI: Right, they could be. I was going to say --
ATWOOD: -- Hill could put forth --
GORANI: -- what --
GORANI: -- if that happens, what are his options (ph) --
ATWOOD: They just haven't yet. And so he's making a legal argument here. But what we do know about what Secretary Pompeo is also frustrated about,
is the number of documents that they have requested from the State Department.
Now, there is a separate subpoena for those documents from Secretary Pompeo, to get to the Hill by Friday of this week. And Pompeo was asked
about that -- sorry, he addressed that subpoena in this letter, and said that they would get back to the Hill by the date that they had requested.
He didn't, however, say that they were going to comply with the subpoena.
GORANI: Kylie Atwood, thanks so much for joining us.
So we talked about the attorney general, the top law enforcement official, Bill Barr. We talked about the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo,
threatening not to cooperate with Congress.
But there is one remarkable development in this case. The intelligence community inspector general, someone who was appointed by the president
himself, is forcefully pushing back against claims made by the president about the whistleblower. The I.G., the inspector general, has put out a
statement debunking, one by one, the talking points used by Mr. Trump and his allies.
The first and most popular talking point, that the whistleblower's secondhand information is useless. Senate Republican Lindsey Graham said
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): This seems to me like a political setup. It's all hearsay. You can't get a parking ticket conviction based on hearsay.
The whistleblower didn't hear the phone call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The problem with that is that it is totally wrong. The Trump- appointed inspector general says, "By law, any individual in the intelligence community who wants to report information with respect to an
urgent concern... need not possess first-hand information."
Then, there's Mr. Trump's argument -- another talking point -- that the whistleblower has blown it all out of proportion, that this was nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The whistleblower reported a totally different statement. Like, the statement, it was not even made
(ph). I guess statement, you could say, with call. I made a call. The call was perfect. When the whistleblower reported it, he made it sound
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But the, again, Trump-appointed man for the intelligence community, says the whistleblower's information is just one piece of the
puzzle. Quote, "The inspector general of the intelligence community determined that other information obtained during the... preliminary review
supported the... allegations." So this is another point debunked.
The inspector general also debunked a false claim about rule changes to the whistleblower's forms, adding that that, too, is not accurate. Let's get
some perspective now from CNN legal analyst Renato Mariotti. He's a former U.S. federal prosecutor, and joins me now, live from Chicago. Renato,
thanks for being with us. What do you make of the inspector general's statement?
RENATOR MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think's remarkable. Because you have -- as you pointed out, Hala -- an appointee of the Trump
administration, coming out publicly and, one by one, taking on the talking points that have been raised. And I give credit to him for doing so
because it's really important for other whistleblowers to know that if they come forward, that their concerns are going to be taken seriously.
GORANI: Let me ask you, also, about -- just for our international viewers, the reports that the attorney general of the United States is traveling
around the world: Britain, Italy, you know, asking the president to talk to the Australian prime minister, to get help from foreign intelligence
services to assist in investigating, essentially, their own country's intelligence agencies. Is that -- is there any legal issue there, first of
MARIOTTI: Well, it's a great question. It is definitely highly unusual. I think just your statement makes that crystal clear. The way you put it,
I think, is correct.
And technically speaking, there is a lawful investigation in the United States of the origins of the Mueller investigation. And so technically --
MARIOTTI: -- speaking, we can -- the United States government can ask other countries for assistance. But typically, that's done from law
enforcement agency to foreign law enforcement agency, not with the attorney general flying around the world, trying to push this issue and putting it
front and center in that way.
GORANI: Because -- because he is the attorney general. And so in that position, what you're saying is, you wouldn't expect someone at that level
of authority to be involving himself with this type of thing? I mean, is that fair to say, or not?
MARIOTTI: The -- no question. I mean, what it suggests is that the attorney general of the United States thinks that this matter of
investigating the origins of the Mueller investigation, is such an urgent law enforcement concern that he's putting aside all of the other law
enforcement issues in the United States of America, and devoting his attention to that.
What it looks like, it gives the appearance that he's doing the bidding of President Trump in order to achieve a political agenda for him. And,
frankly, it contributes to a narrative that that investigation, which has already been opened, is done for political purposes, not done actually to
advance the cause of justice.
GORANI: Could I ask you about Mike Pompeo now, the secretary of state who, it's emerging now, was on that phone call, according to reports, that the
president made to the president of Ukraine, Zelensky? After having answered very evasively, a reporter's question, a few weeks ago, about what
he knew about the content of the call. How significant is that, now that the Democrats are focusing on Ukraine with regards to these impeachment
MARIOTTI: I think it's going to create a problem for Secretary Pompeo, going forward. You know, he's claimed -- you know, he claimed, just a
moment ago, you reported, that there's no wrongdoing by State Department officials. Perhaps his definition of wrongdoing is different than others.
I think a lot of people, here in the United States, find it very troubling that State Department officials were working with Rudy Giuliani to conduct
this private, clandestine, foreign investigation of President Trump's rival Joe Biden.
So, you know, in the days and weeks to come, he's going to be asked more and more questions. And of course, he has his own political future that
he's concerned with, which, you know, puts him in contrast to someone like Attorney General Barr. Mr. Pompeo is widely rumored to be interested in
running for senator in Kansas, which would potentially make his statements important for a future election.
GORANI: And you wrote that -- and you argue, in a piece that you wrote, that the Democrats should, if they want these -- this effort, these
impeachment inquiries to go their way politically, focus entirely on Ukraine and nothing else. Why?
MARIOTTI: It is so -- such a powerful argument, and it's such a powerful episode and it's very simple to understand. Everyone watching this program
understands what's wrong about what happened there. And as you just noted yourself, Hala, by walking through what the I.G. said in response, there's
no credible defense to those allegations.
In other words, you know, the argument is, well, it's hearsay, or you know, attacking the whistleblower personally, saying it's perfect. None of these
things are actual defenses to the allegations. And so it's such a crystal- clear case, that the Democrats would be better to remain focused on that rather than expanding this outward and meeting with more stonewalling from
people like Secretary Pompeo.
GORANI: Right. So if they do that, though, then what's the next step here?
MARIOTTI: So I think what is going to happen is, Democrats are going to, potentially, you know, not only are they going to -- for example, with
Pompeo, they'll issue subpoenas to those employees; if there's an objection, a legal objection, they'll have to go to court to enforce them.
And then you could also imagine, if the Democrats are opening other inquiries, they're going to have to send more subpoenas and investigate
other matters, whether it's obstruction of justice or emoluments or other issues that they're concerned about, like these foreign trips, and so on.
I -- and so that process can take some time. And of course, the election in the United States is coming late next year, around a year away from
today. So they don't have a lot of time, and that's really what -- in my view, what Secretary Pompeo's letter that you spoke about earlier, is
really all about. It's about delay. And so the Democrats really have some tough choices to make.
GORANI: All right. Renato Mariotti, a former U.S. federal prosecutor, thanks so much for your time this evening. Really appreciate it.
MARIOTTI: Thank you.
GORANI: Still to come tonight, it is a tale of two cities. China is celebrating its National Day, but protestors swarm the streets of Hong
Also, it is a stark contrast to Beijing, where the streets are filled with pomp and parade as China, as we just mentioned, is celebrating 70 years of
Communist rule. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Massive crowds turned out in the streets of Hong Kong today, and Beijing, for very different reasons. While one city celebrated, the other
called it a day of mourning. Beijing marked 70 years since the founding of the People's Republic of China, with pageantry and parades. But in Hong
Kong, which is seeking greater independence from mainland China, demonstrators clashed with police.
There were some incredible moments captured on CNN air (ph) today. CNN's Anna Coren has been on the streets of Hong Kong all day with her crew,
covering the protests, which later became violent. Here she is, earlier, as protestors fire-bombed a subway station.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Standing by.
COREN: Protestors have set firebombs to Sham Shui Po police station. They're now planning -- and they have (INAUDIBLE) the other entrance alight
as well. So there are fires, simultaneous fires, going off here in Sham Shui Po. It is just gone (ph), 9:00 p.m. here in Hong Kong. It has been a
long and violent day, and the violence has not ended.
Interestingly, we are only a few blocks from the police station, and yet we are yet to see any police. You can see here, protestors, they've got their
bricks, they've got their petrol bombs and we've seen it all afternoon.
Earlier, we were there as protestors were throwing petrol bombs at police. Police, responding with tear gas, obviously making numerous arrests. But
it just didn't have the impact, perhaps, that you would expect.
But we overheard one of the protestors say, a little bit earlier, that the aim of today was to humiliate Xi Jinping, China's president. They believe
that they have done that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was Anna Coren earlier. But let's take you to Beijing now, and another moment caught on CNN. Fireworks lit up the night sky as the
city broke out into song. Here's CNN's David Culver, highlighting the contrast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And yet this is happening as, within Hong Kong, the unrest continues. I'll let you take it in for a moment because,
to be quite honest, it is stunning. They are putting on a show that is just captivating.
So, Natalie (ph), if we just allow folks to take it in, just for a moment, just to see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Here is David Culver, again, with more from Beijing as China marks its National Day celebrations.
CULVER (voice-over): With the sun searing through Beijing's early morning smog, they marched, members of China's military, rehearing right up until
A performance for the world with President Xi Jinping taking center stage. His platform? The Gate of Heavenly Peace, overlooking the symbolic center
of the People's Republic, Tiananmen Square.
XI JINPING, PRESIDENT OF CHINA (through translator): No force can stop the Chinese people and the Chinese nation, forging ahead.
CULVER (voice-over): China, marking seven decades of rapid growth, from the first celebrations in 1949, the developing Communist country went from
famine to feast. Today, enjoying a surge of economic wealth and military might, the People's Liberation Army on full display here.
JINPING (through translator): They will safeguard the sovereignty, security and development interests of the nation, and resolutely protect
CULVER (voice-over): China, using their October 1st National Day parade to show off its new defense technology, including a new radar, making their
missile defense more effective. They also showcased a new land-based cruise missile, with potentially a longer range than existing models.
And we spotted the new intercontinental ballistic missile. Military experts say it has the potential to launch multiple warheads, with a range
that encompasses the entire continental United States.
Above the crowd, a display of air power: a strategic bomber that can reportedly be armed with anti-ship ballistic missiles. The crowds gathered
here, seemingly enthused and feeling patriotic.
CULVER: And so, as we pan down here, you can see the mass of people -- mostly media -- in this section. But other folks have also gathered, only
invited people. That is to say, not every resident of Beijing could just come out here and watch.
CULVER (voice-over): China's security teams, essentially locking down the city for several weeks to pull this off. Their planning for National Day
coincided with continued unrest in Hong Kong, an ongoing U.S. trade war, and a worsening domestic economy: challenges facing China's increasingly
JINPING (through translator): Long live the great People's Republic of China, long live the great Communist Party of China, and long live the
great Chinese people.
CULVER (voice-over): The obstacles, pushed aside for a day of celebrating, but they will resurface as soon as the scripted parade and parties come to
an end. David Culver, CNN, Beijing.
GORANI: Well, it was a day of contrasts. Hong Kong's police commissioner says Tuesday's clashes were the most violent scenes that he's seen in the
city. More than 50 people were injured 35 police officers were also wounded, more than 180 people were arrested across the city.
And -- this is what has some people worried that this is escalating, you know, beyond control -- for the first time, an officer fired live
ammunition, wounding a protestor. Police say that the 18-year-old was arrested for assaulting a police officer, and is being treated in the
Ivan has more from Hong Kong. And a warning, his piece contains some disturbing video.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the streets of Hong Kong, a familiar scene: running battles between police and
protestors. Tens of thousands of people defied a protest ban, taking to the streets, sparking violent clashes across the city. Protestors lobbed
firebombs at police. Authorities returned fire with tear gas, water cannon and, for the first time since the protest movement ramped up four months
ago, lethal force.
This video appears to show the moment a protestor is shot by a police officer with live ammunition, moments after he attacks the officer with a
pole. Police say they warned the attacker before firing.
YOLANDA YU HOI KWAN, HONG KONG POLICE SPOKESPERSON (through translator): The police officers' lives were under serious threat. To save his life and
his colleagues' lives, he fired a live shot at the assailant. An 18-year- old man was shot.
WATSON (voice-over): By nightfall, the situation remained tense.
WATSON: The riot police have moved in and clashed repeatedly with demonstrators. And now, you have these angry scenes, where they're being
pursued through the streets of this international financial hub by furious citizens who are calling them all sorts of insults, and police are
threatening to use force yet again.
WATSON (voice-over): According to police, about half of the city's 18 districts were affected by Tuesday's clashes, with officers making a series
The day was supposed to be a moment of celebration for Chinese authorities, marking the 70th anniversary of Communist rule. But the flag-raising
ceremony had to be held behind tight security, as protestors held so-called Day of Grief rallies outside.
And as the day wore on, tensions escalated, culminating in yet another show of defiance by protestors and an increasingly hardline approach from
police, with neither side willing to back down. There's no clear exit ramp to the cycle of confrontation that has paralyzed the city.
WATSON: These scenes of chaos and anger are an embarrassment to the ruling Communist Party in mainland China, which tolerates no signs of dissent
whatsoever in the mainland. Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
GORANI: Tense situation.
Still to come, a private phone call, a public outcry. What Ukraine's president says about his conversations with Donald Trump. We'll hear from
And another leader, plotting his next move. Time is ticking for the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, as his October Brexit deadline looms
GORANI: Let's get back to our top story. The impeachment investigation into U.S. President, Donald Trump. Though the investigation is happening
in Washington, a lot of the focus is on Ukraine. Ukraine's president met with the reporters a short time ago.
CNN's Clarissa Ward was there and joins us now live from Kiev, Ukraine. And you got to ask President Zelensky a question. Of course, this all
started with reports of that phone call between U.S. president, Donald Trump and Zelensky, that July phone call. What did he tell you?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Hala, it was interesting because he started out the answer -- the question and
answer portion of the press conference by saying that he only wanted to talk about the situation in eastern Ukraine, that that was the only kind of
questioning that he was willing to enter into.
But there were several American reporters in the room. And so quickly, we were all trying to ask pressing questions about what happened during that
phone conversation, whether he felt that there was pressure. Take a listen to our exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Did you feel pressure from President Trump to investigate the Bidens in order to unfreeze military?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I understood. I'd like to tell you that I never feel pressure. I have lots
of people who'd like to put pressure on me here and abroad. But I'm the president of an independent Ukraine and I'd like to think and my action
suggests, no one can put pressure on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Now, interesting what he says there, no one can pressure me, Hala. That's very different at saying, no one did pressure me. And this was the
kind of subtle semantics that we saw the Ukrainian president using throughout his questioning in this press conference to really try to avoid
being specific about the nature of the phone call, the nature of the relationship and, whether or not, pressure or demands were made to the
Ukrainian president to open up an investigation both into the Bidens, also into allegations of collusion between Ukrainians and the Democrats against
President Trump and 2016 election.
Simply put, Hala, he wanted to make sure that the message was clear that Ukraine is independent and that Ukraine will not be weighing in on either
side of the U.S.'s domestic political turmoil.
GORANI: And he was also asked about Rudy Giuliani, whether or not, he knew him or met him. This is what he -- this is what he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKY: I've never met Rudy Giuliani, never. And never had any phone calls with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. So he's really, really based on the answer to the question you asked him and now this, really trying to distance himself from
any kind of perception that either Donald Trump or his associates are pressuring him to investigate the Bidens in exchange for military aid or
WARD: Absolutely, Hala, but, you know, you have to ask yourself, in the transcript, or I should say, the summary of the conversation between Trump
and Zelensky that was released by the White House, it's not Trump who brings up Giuliani, it's Zelensky. He is the one who says that his
assistant or one of his assistants has spoken with Giuliani, that he very much hopes that Giuliani will come and visit Ukraine.
So there's still a lot of questions that the Ukrainian president will be getting from, not just reporters, but presumably other places as well. As
people want to have more clarity on the nature of this conversation and the broader nature of any understanding that may have existed between the Trump
White House and between the Ukrainian president about what would be necessary in order for them to have a good relationship from Trump's
GORANI: All right. He also mentioned in that phone call staying at a Trump hotel. So there is several things in there, certainly, that were of
interest of people reading that summary of the call.
Thanks very much, Clarissa Ward, live in Kiev.
Two new pieces out of information out of Washington this hour. First, Donald Trump's lawyer. We were just discussing with Clarissa, Rudy
Giuliani has lawyered up himself.
Second, chairman of multiple house committees has just responded to secretary of state, Mike Pompeo's, accusations about bullying, potential
impeachment inquiry witnesses.
CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collison, is here to discuss all these due developments. Let's talk first about Rudy Giuliani hiring a new
attorney. What can you tell us about that?
COLLINSON: This is all getting very intense, very quickly, Hala. Rudy Giuliani, as you say, has hired Jon Sale, he is a big-time Washington
lawyer, and a former prosecutor in the Watergate scandal surrounding President Richard Nixon from the 1970s, which is an interesting echo, to
say the least, given that this president is also facing impeachment proceedings.
You remember that Giuliani was subpoenaed by House committees yesterday for documents relating to the Ukrainian scandal. He hasn't said yet, whether
he's going to comply with those subpoenas which would be a major legal standoff and Sale said he's just started to look at this. He just got off
the phone with one of my colleagues, Michael Warren, and he made the interesting observation that he's just getting up to speed with the case.
And every time he turns around, Rudy Giuliani is on another television station defending the president. So you get some insight there into the
unique challenges of any lawyer going into this political quagmire that's unfolding a great pace in Washington right now.
GORANI: That's going to be very interesting, especially if he decides not to comply with that subpoena, because that's -- as you said, going to kick
off a major legal battle there.
Now, Congress is responding to the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, who essentially does not want State Department employees to cooperate with any
impeachment inquiry. What are they telling Mike Pompeo?
COLLINSON: That's right. So several senior State Department employees are being required to show up on Capitol Hill as early as this week to give
depositions about their role and discussions between the Trump administration and the Ukraine.
Pompeo, as you say, came out this morning and accusing the committees of trying to intimidate State Department employees. Well, they've just hit
back very hard. They are accusing Pompeo of trying to intimidate witnesses from not complying with the impeachment inquiry and they are saying that if
this continues, it will be taken as evidence of the administration's intent to obstruct the impeachment inquiry.
That, of course, is very significant and it tells us how this is much different than the previous Trump scandals obstructing and impeachment
inquiry could be an impeachable offense in itself. So this standoff between the president, and Pompeo, and the House committees carry out this
impeachment inquiry is developing very quickly and getting very, very serious.
GORANI: Stephen Collinson, thanks very much.
In Europe, the deadline for Brexit is only a month away, but Boris Johnson is denying reports that his Brexit planning includes border checks between
Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. That's been a big issue, obviously, here during negotiations.
He told the BBC that it's not, quote, quite right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think that we'll be making a very good offer. And clearly, I've seen some briefings already from -- I don't
know where it's coming from, I think possibly from Brussels which is not quite right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This just remind people what we're talking about. So there was a leak yesterday that suggested that there will be a stream of
border posts not along the Irish border, but not far back. Are you saying that simply isn't true?
JOHNSON: Yes, that's not what we're proposing at all. But I think probably at the moment, Nick (ph), if you forgive me, I would like to bail
on proposals in decent obscurity until we've been able to share them properly with our friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. So he's not really disclosing any of the salient details of these proposals, these new Brexit proposals that the prime
minister says will lead to some sort of deal and get the U.K. out of the E.U. by October 31st.
So what is the prime minister proposing? It took main building at the annual Conservative Party Conference. The plan is to get it done. But
what does that is mean exactly?
CNN Europe editor, Nina dos Santos is there.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR (on-camera): Welcome to Conservative Party Conference in Manchester where the main message is clear, getting
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): The prime minister is doing the rounds in a bid to unite a deeply divided party.
JOHNSON: Yes. I'm on it. How are you? Good morning. How are you doing? How are you?
Dodging questions about how he plans to deliver on his promise of Brexit by the end of the month, which for members, is for the most part of that talk
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting Brexit done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting Brexit delivered and focus on our nations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting Brexit done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We now need to move forward and finish this issue. It is a toxic issue, which is a (INAUDIBLE)
DOS SANTOS (on-camera): It's what's hanging over everybody's heads here in the conference hall and across the rest of the country. After getting pass
Brexit to then focus on the domestic agenda.
And that's what this Conservative Party Conference has been about thus far with big public spending initiatives announced for health care, education,
policing, and infrastructure.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Even the novelty items spared the B word, despite Brexit not being everyone's cup of tea.
DOS SANTOS (on-camera): Well, the general election hasn't yet been called, as you can see this is a party in full campaign mode. But the success of
that campaign will be determined by one event that could happen within 30 days' time. And it's for that reason, that Brexit is the word you just
can't get away from this year at the party conference.
Nina dos Santos, CNN, in Manchester.
GORANI: With the possibility of a no-deal Brexit looming, apologies, former U.K. prime minister, David Cameron, weighed in on the possible
outcomes that are left. He gave an interview to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Now, Parliament has passed a law saying that the government should not exit with a no-deal exit. And I
think they need to evade that law. I think no-deal exit would be bad for our economy. It would be bad for the United Kingdom.
So the best outcome is a deal that goes through. If that doesn't work, we can't go on blocks as we are. We've had three years not being able to go
forward or backwards.
And in the end, there are only sort of three ways out of it. You can have a deal that goes through, you can have a general election and see if that
changes the makeup of parliament so that you can get a deal through or you could have a second referendum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: David Cameron there, the former prime minister. We will be right back.
GORANI: Welcome back. In our "INNOVATE AFRICA" segment tonight, CNN's Robyn Curnow steps into the kitchen where a healthy new food for American
grocers and opportunity for West African farmers is found in one ancient grain.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (voice-over): It may resemble the likes of quinoa, but it's got a taste of nutritional profile all of its
own, introducing Fonio.
PIERRE THIAM, CHEF: So Fonio is from the millet family, but it's a -- it's a particular grain. It has been around for 5,000 years.
CURNOW: This tiny, ancient grain might just have the potential to transform Africa's agricultural landscape.
THIAM: It's gluten-free. It's rich in two amino acids that are very -- that are deficient in most other grains, and also Fonio is rich in fibers.
I thought it's Africans most best-kept secret.
CURNOW: The man making this grain mainstream is chef and restaurateurs, Pierre Thiam. Born and raised in Senegal's capital Dakar, he found his way
to the streets of New York by chance.
THIAM: And I'm one of the lucky ones who, in fact, managed to get a student visa and came to the U.S. The first job happened to be a
restaurant job and I fell in love with it. And 30 years later, I'm still in the kitchen.
CURNOW: Having opened three restaurants and a food store here, he's one of West Africans top culinary ambassadors.
THIAM: The food culture of Senegal is very vibrant and I was like it has a place in New York, I believe we should introduce this cuisine.
CURNOW: Chefs hat off and Thiam has another mission in mind, food security.
THIAM: Over time, I wrote my first cookbook. It triggered another cookbook. I worked with the photographer. We traveled around Senegal
meeting food producers, farmers, fishermen -- I'm talking about their stories. That's what led to my actual mission which is realizing that they
had amazing products that wasn't accessible at all in the U.S.
And then I decided to start Yolele Foods, a collaboration with small holder farmers and bringing their products to the U.S. and to the rest of the
CURNOW: He saw the potential of Fonio abroad, but more so at home. The grain grows in nutrient poor soil, which makes it the perfect crop to bring
economic development across the drought-stricken Sahel region.
Fonio has been sold in Whole Foods, online, at Yolele Food, which is - which is yours.
What does it taste like?
THIAM: It's interesting -- nutty but neutral flavors. Easy to substitute any grain with Fonio.
CURNOW: So you boil pour it in, simmer for how long?
THIAM: And in five minutes, the water will be completely evaporated. And you fluff your Fonio with a fork or with a spoon.
CURNOW: We've got the beets already done.
THIAM: I have my pickled carrots that I just add to it. And then add the Fonio and some dressing. What do you think?
CURNOW: It's delicious.
What is it that you think is so important about giving this to the mass market in many ways?
THIAM: For many ways, the mass market needs diversity in their diet. The main reason for me is to support small holder farmers in West Africa in the
poorest regions of the world where nothing grows.
I collaborate with farmers and cooperatives in that region and open new markets for them, you know. So it's a win-win. The consumers here, they
get an amazing product, but the farmers, they have new markets.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, New York.
GORANI: We'll be right back.
GORANI: All this week, CNN is profiling the citizen's incorporation in Japan who are taking on the growing amount of wastes on our planet.
In this edition of "Eco Solutions," we take a look at one company ramping up production of biodegradable plastics. Here is Kristie Lu Stout.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It said that every single piece of plastic ever made still exists. Too much of it
ends up in the ocean or not properly recycled.
That's why Osaka-based chemical manufacturing company, Kaneka, is offering a different approach to the issue of marine litter. The materials maker is
investing big and ramping up its production of biodegradable biopolymers. Translation, a formal plastic that's made 100 percent from plant oils, not
from fossil fuels and completely breaks down in soil and sea water.
YOSHIKI TAKEOKA, MANAGING EXECUTIVE OFFICER, KANEKA (through translator): This is the sample to test biodegradability in sea water.
As you can see, various things are dissolved in sea water by bacteria. This straw, for example, can be two-thirds dissolved in two months and
completely dissolved in three months or so.
A bottle like this can be half dissolved in four months, showing a very good biodegradability, though it depends on the conditions.
LU STOUT: Kaneka says it's now producing a thousand tons of this bioplastic called PHBH a year. But with huge market expansion globally
expected for this kind of material, the company plans to ratchet up production.
TAKEOKA (through translator): Plastic has spread all over the world, it's a very useful thing. But on the other hand, it's causing environmental
With the power of science, we'd like to promote PHBH as a solution for people around the world as soon as possible.
LU STOUT: Kristie Lu Stout, CNN.
GORANI: And some breaking news just into CNN. Britain's Prince Harry and his wife, Meghan, are suing a British tabloid. The royals alleged that the
paper published a private letter and also edited the letter selectively.
Prince Harry says his wife has become one of the latest victims of a ruthless campaign by the tabloid press.
Let's bring in Max Foster, he's live in Johannesburg. Tell us more about this suit, Max.
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. I mean, we're talking about into too much detail, which is legal action now.
And it does refer to these letters which were sent by the duchess to her father and published in the Mail on Sunday. He was also interviewed, I
think, as part of that, as I remember as well.
But this has been some time in the process. They've been looking into this for some time. What's quite unusual about this is that they released --
they sent the statement to everyone here on the tour. Harry's here, at the moment, in Johannesburg. But they're saying this segment isn't related
necessarily to the timing of the tour. The timing is relating to the legal action.
But in the statement, they actually referred to the tour that talked about some of the hypocrisy in the tabloid media, because of all the positive
coverage this week and all the negative coverage about the duchess that preceded it.
And, Hala, it's very strongly word. I mean, the statement is written by Harry. And he says, unfortunately, my wife has become one of the latest
victims of a British tabloid press that wages campaign against individuals with no thoughts to the consequences. A ruthless campaign that's escalated
over the past year, throughout her pregnancy, and whilst raising our newborn son.
So it's very personal. He feels he's under attack as a family.
And also, actually, earlier on, he talks about how media is a cornerstone of democracy. And in the current state of the world, that's very
And that she speaks to a lot of what he's been saying during the talk, when he talks about the environment and big issues. He said he talks about the
state of humanity and the state of the planet. So I think it speaks to a lot of people of what he's talking about right now.
But this legal action is extraordinary. It may backfire because the tabloid press may attack him for it, but he's willing to go for it, it
GORANI: Yes. And also, I'd forgotten about this letter or when it was published. Wasn't this around the time of the wedding, around that time
when there were these -- where her father was making -- popping up, pretty much it fell like everywhere on British television.
Why did it take so long then to initiate or to get to this point in this legal action?
FOSTER: Well, I think it followed the wedding. And I think some of the comments in the letter relates probably to events around the wedding and
the interviews that he gave. I think that they were very concerned at the time. I remember speaking to palace officials about, you know, their
concern about these letters were published. Not the fact that they were written. And they were -- they started legal action then.
But I think -- they're saying in the statement this has been a very long process. It's been in the making for some time, the statements in this
legal action and timing it now because of where they are in the legal action. We're trying to get more information.
But obviously, they're inundated. It's quite extraordinary though. They have at this very positive coverage over the last few days. And now, the
day tomorrow as well of events here as a family. But now, obviously, everyone's going to be talking about this.
GORANI: Right. Absolutely. And because what -- talk to us about this tour then, and you said it's received positive coverage, and this is their
first, you know, foreign trip as a family with a child. Talk to us about that.
FOSTER: Well, they've had a lot of negative media coverage. I think a lot of that has been focused on the U.K. media. Although, I think, other media
around the world that followed up on a lot of these stories.
That largely been based around the hypocrisy of the couple. So they take public money to renovate their home, for example, then they don't allow
media access to christening of the baby.
Now, you know, these are all topics of debate. But this is the tabloid narrative that's built up. Obviously, that the private jets they've been
using whilst preaching about environmental damage done by planes. So hypocrisy around there.
But then this tour though seen as a very genuine couple caring about the causes they're focusing on. So it was seen as a positive in the back of
all of that tabloid's negativity.
GORANI: All right. Max Foster in Johannesburg.
Hundreds of people were seeing double in South Carolina with good reasons. This is a nice story for all of you dreaming about what you would do if you
won the lottery. More than a thousand people won the lottery in South Carolina. They picked for drawing because they used the number two four
This is the first time that two, two, two, two combination has been drawn since 2012. It was a $3.4 million payout. And these lucky winners are
expected to take home anywhere between 2,500 to 5,000 apiece.
But imagine, winning the lottery for the first time in your life and a thousand other people won on the same day. Anyway, it's better than not
winning at all.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.