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White House Subpoenaed; Trump Insults Romney; Leon Panetta Talks Trump Asking Ukraine & China To Investigate Bidens, Trump Attacking Whistleblower, Impeachment Inquiry; Sanders Traveling Back To Vermont Today, Plans Campaign Trail Return; Poll: Kamala Harris Losing Support; Michigan Voters Weigh In On Impeachment; Mouse Runs Amok At White House. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 5, 2019 - 17:00   ET


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But I do care about corruption. His campaign, that's up to him. Politics, that's up to them. I don't care about politics.


ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: He doesn't care about politics. So, why was it, when asked by a reporter, if he could name one time, one other time, he pushed for an investigation into alleged corruption that didn't involve a political opponent. President Trump said this.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I -- we would have to look.


CABRERA: We would have to look, the president says. OK. Let's take a look. Look at the transcript the White House released of the call- in which Trump tells the Ukrainian president, quote, "I would like you to do us a favor, though." Or look at the text messages turned over to Congress in which a top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine wrote, quote, "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."

We know what the president's argument is always going to be.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, when this came out, it was quid pro quo. Well, there was none. There's no quid pro quo. There's no quid pro quo. There is no pro quo.


CABRERA: But does repeating a denial over and over and over again make it any truer in this case?

Let's get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House. Jeremy, first on the letter to Pelosi. Explain why the White House wants to force a vote on this impeachment inquiry.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. Well, what we've heard so far is that the White House counsel's office has begun drafting a letter to House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, that would, essentially, say, we are not compelled to provide these documents to you, until you go to the floor of the House and actually vote to formally open an impeachment inquiry.

The president said, on Friday, that he did expect to send a letter to the House speaker. He didn't specify exactly what the contents would be. But there are two major reasons why the White House seems to want to do this.

First of all, on the legal front, we know that they have been attempting to stonewall House inquiries, not only this impeachment inquiry but previous ones. So, this can maybe give them a little bit more meat on the bones, as far as why they're not providing some of these documents.

But, really, this is about politics. And I've talked to Republican operatives, White House officials about this. And one of the main reasons that they want to dare Democrats, essentially, to put their money where their mouth is with a vote on the House floor is they want many of these moderate Democrats, these vulnerable Democrats, particularly those who won in 2018 in Trump districts, to actually have to take this vote beyond simply saying, yes, I'm in favor of an impeachment inquiry.

They want to get many of these Democrats on the record on the House floor with a vote. We already know this impeachment inquiry has been a fundraising boon for the president, in particular. He got a number of small dollar donations as a result of this.

So, clearly, politics is very much at play here. And Republicans see an opportunity to get some of those vulnerable Democrats on the record -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Jeremy Diamond at the White House for us. Thank you.

Joining us now, S.E. Cupp, Host of "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED," and Van Jones, Host of "THE VAN JONES SHOW." Both here tonight after this broadcast.

Now, here was a statement that was put out just last night by three Democratic House chairs, after that subpoena was issued to the White House. Quote, "We deeply regret that President Trump has put us and the nation in this position, but his actions have left us with no choice." So, S.E., if the White House refuses to comply with this, is there any other way to look at it than potential obstruction of Congress?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. The president and the White House will try but, as Adam Schiff, himself, has said, they will treat that as evidence of obstruction, refusing to hand over those documents is illegal -- is a legal maneuver. And the legal response is that is obstruction, if there's documents your withholding because you think they're bad for you, we're going to them as such.

So, it's a very risky move for the White House to try to stonewall this investigation. Now, the White House is, sort of, daring Democrats to hold a vote on impeachment. And Trump has said, if you do that, I'll give you all the things you need. Somehow, I don't think we should take him at his word.

CABRERA: I know you don't agree either, that the president is telling the truth there, Van. You made headlines, though, earlier this week. You said Democrats are in a lose-lose situation, when it comes to this impeachment inquiry. That was earlier. Do you still feel that way?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what I was -- what I mean by that is, simply, the real problem that we have is that we have foreign powers being pulled into our election. In 2020, we need to have a free, fair election, free of foreign interference.

The impeachment, whether you like it or not, won't do anything about that. Because after the president's impeached, the Congress says they're not going to remove him. He could stand on that White House lawn every day and ask a new country to come in every day from now until the election and the impeachment won't do anything to stop him.

And so, what I'm saying is that whether you like the impeachment or not, there need to be some adults who sit down in a bipartisan basis and figure out, how do we protect our elections? How do we outlaw this type of behavior? How do we create a special prosecutor who can go after this type of behavior? What can we actually do to protect our election?


And so, I just don't -- -- I don't want to lose the --

CABRERA: You don't think Democrats are going to accomplish much by doing this impeachment process?

JONES: Oh, listen, I understand why people feel like, at this point, something has to be done. And you can't just continue to have foreign powers being drug in with no response or whatever. All I'm saying is, do that if you want to. Don't do it if you don't want to. But who is going to protect our election because, right now, we are in grave danger of having 15 or 24 governments brought into our election, and nothing's being done about that.

CABRERA: Should the pre -- not -- you know, put a pre -- put aside what the president is saying, like, if you hold this House vote -- should Nancy Pelosi hold a House vote?

CUPP: If she thinks she has the votes, she should. If she doesn't, then probably not. I mean, they want -- they want -- they want this to wrap up quickly because they don't want it hanging over the election. But they also don't want it over before it's begun. There's real information that they want to get.

And I think Van's right. There are political costs to this for Democrats. And they, actually, may end up injuring themselves more than Trump in this process. Impeachment could prove to be very good for Trump's re-election efforts. We just don't know yet.

But I would say, I think one positive result of this, this airing of all of these phone calls and this pressure, is that I think a lot of world leaders will think twice before taking some phone calls with the president, and maybe taking him up on some of these requests and offers. Because they know, basically, when you're calling the White House, you better act like you're calling Adam Schiff. Because that's, basically, where all of this is going to end up. And, if you're smart, you might think twice.

CABRERA: But why is that a good thing, if, you know, the world leaders have that concern about dealing with the American president?

JONES: It would be good if it -- if it made them say, maybe we should respect the sovereignty of the American people. Maybe we shouldn't try to curry favor with the U.S. president and violate the sovereignty of the American people and get involved in the election. In other words, the sunshine effect of this -- of this whole process could be good.

And listen, a lot of Democrats will tell you, hey, we don't care, at this point, if it hurts us or if it doesn't. We've got to do something. We just don't want to continue with this sort of pattern. I just -- listen, I got -- I got a lot of crap a couple years ago when I said Donald Trump could win.

People didn't listen to me then. I'm telling you, I spend a lot of time in red states, a lot of time in purple states. Common ground is we want our elections to be protected and respected. And there's not enough bipartisan leadership to focus on making sure that that happens, impeachment or no impeachment.

CABRERA: I mean, there's lot of sunshine that we've already seen shown this week. You have the texts. We have the transcript. We have the complaint. That's all been made public so far. Now, we have this reporting from "The New York Times" that there may be a second whistle-blower who has more direct knowledge of the president's dealings with Ukraine, considering coming forward, making his or her own report.

And, again, I talk about those text messages. And I want to bring those back to our viewers, because it moved so quickly. Maybe you missed some of these text messages.

JONES: No, we didn't.

CABRERA: Let me read one. This is between the former special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, and a top aide to the Ukrainian president. And he writes, heard from White House, assuming President Z, President Zelensky, convinces Trump he will investigate, get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.

S.E., is there any more of a smoking gun than what's already been put out there? CUPP: That's quid pro quo. But the president said it. The president

said it on live television. He's talked about openly doing this. He's defended doing it. And he's called for it to be done, again.

I think what's important, what's really important, as we focus on whistle-blowers and potential whistle-blowers, who are going to continue to reveal more information, how remarkable that courage will be, given the hostile environment Trump is trying to create for more sunlight. For more texts. For more texts. For more conversations and reports to come out.

I think it's remarkable that there is a second whistle-blower, considering this environment, who is considering coming out. And I hope he does and more people do. Because wherever the information leads, we want more of it.

CABRERA: Van, what do you make of Jared Kushner now taking the point, apparently, on this impeachment probe, as far as the White House is concerned?

JONES: I don't know anything about it. I tell you what, he's tough and he's smart. And somebody over there, who's tough and smart, needs to try and deal with this. So, I would imagine that, if you've got to put somebody in charge of it, you'd probably put Jared Kushner in charge of it.

Let me say just one more thing, just following up on what S.E. just said. You know, this is a very human process. There are human beings who grew up. They were raised by their parents. They went to school. They went to work for America's government. They want to do a good job. And a section of those people, apparently, are seeing things repeatedly that are disturbing to them.

And I can't be -- people say, oh, the Republicans aren't doing anything. Chuck Grassley has stood up for the whistle-blowers. He's as strong and conservative a Republican as you can possibly find. And he said, you know what?

We put these mechanisms in place so that if anybody working for America's government felt that something was wrong, they could do something about it. They don't have to leak. They don't have to go out and try to sell a book. They don't have to extort somebody. They can follow the rules.


And I just want to say, Chuck Grassley needs to get a lot more support and respect for what he's done. There are Republicans that are beginning to do the right thing and Chuck Grassley is in the front of that list.

CABRERA: OK. Both of you, thank you. Van, you'll be back with me in a moment. S.E., you need to be ready for your show, coming up at the top of the hour. That's right, more of the three of us coming your way. "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED" at the top of the hour right here on CNN, followed by "THE VAN JONES SHOW" at 7:00. And then, I'm back here live at 8:00.

OK, paging all Republicans. Why are so many of them silent about the president's calls to have both Ukraine and China investigate Joe Biden? Plus, the president with some choice words for a prominent Republican who's speaking out against him. And Bernie Sanders out of the hospital, after suffering a heart attack. His message to supporters and what's next for his campaign.


CABRERA: Republican lawmakers take note. If you criticize the president, he will attack you, insult you, and possibly even call for your impeachment, even though you can't technically be impeached.

Senator Mitt Romney is finding that out right now. I'm hearing that the great people of Utah are considering their vote for their pompous Senator Mitt Romney to be a big mistake. I agree. He is a fool who is playing right into the hands of the do-nothing Democrats, hashtag, #impeachmittromney. Those words from the president.

In an earlier tweet, the president called Romney a pompous expletive. All of this because Romney called the president's public appeal for China and Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden, quote, "wrong and appalling."


Van Jones is back with us. Also with us now, CNN Political Commentator, Tara Setmayer. So, Tara, what role do you think fear of Trump's attacks plays in Congressional Republican's refusal to take him on over almost anything?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'd say it's 99.9 percent of it. You know, Mike Murphy, former Republican operative, said that if you took a secret ballot of Republican senators concerning impeachment, probably 30 would vote to impeach him.

Donald Trump is hated by most members of Congress here in Washington, D.C. They're just too cowardly to admit it in public because, most of them, they don't think they can withstand the onslaught of childish insults that Donald Trump will unleash on them on his Twitter feed or at his rallies.

Mitt Romney doesn't have to really worry about that. He's in -- he just won his seat. He's got five years to go. So, he doesn't have to worry about that. Mitt Romney -- I mean, Donald Trump only won 45 percent in Utah, during the election, which was the worst in a generation for a Republican. Mitt Romney is pretty -- sitting pretty, you know, solid with his folks in Utah.

These attacks about he heard people are regretting it, that's a bunch of B.S. Just like anytime he starts a story with sir. Someone said, sir, we already know. Our Daniel Dale, our wonderful fact checker here at CNN, always talks about, most of the time, whenever a sir- story starts, there's no evidence to back it up. So, this is just -- this is just the president not being able to take

the fact someone is standing up to him and sending a message to others that this is what I'll do to you if you speak out. And, seriously, --


SETMAYER: -- there are no profiles of courage going on, other than a handful in the Republican Party. History is going to write about profiles of cowardice.

CABRERA: I would say less than a handful are speaking out --


CABRERA: -- and expressing concern or any criticism of how the president has handled himself and things he's said out loud and in public the last couple of days, calling for these investigations --

SETMAYER: Yes. It's sad. It's sad.

CABRERA: -- in China and Ukraine. But Mitt Romney, for whatever reason, seems to really get under the president's skin, Van. I mean, today, the president has spent either all his time golfing or tweeting about Mitt Romney, as far as we know. Why does Mitt Romney really get to him?

JONES: You know, Trump attacks people he thinks -- that are strong and a threat to him. And he's very effective at identifying where the threat's coming from. Part of the reason why he's going after Biden. Why is he pulling in all these foreign governments? He wants to mess up Biden. He wants to dirty up Biden. Her wants to drag down Biden. Why? Because he knows he can't beat Biden head to head. Every poll shows that.

Why is he going after Mitt Romney? Mitt Romney has the standing to stand up to him. Mitt Romney has an independent base. His family has an independent story. You know, you know, the Romney family is as important in the -- in the Republican Party as any family. And so, he can stand up. And so, Trump goes after strength. And so, you're going to see him doing that.

Also, I think we have to remember, the hold that Trump has on the Republican Party isn't just because of the tweets and that sort of stuff. He also has very intelligently engineered a coalition around him. The economic right supports him because of the tax policy. The religious right supports him because of the judges. So, there's more going on there that's giving him this extra strength.

And then, he -- -- so, he secured a base of support for himself in the -- in the party. And then, he goes after anybody who stands up against him. It's a very formidable strategy.

CABRERA: We can name the three Republican lawmakers who have stood up. It's Romney. It's Senator Ben Sasse. And Congressman Will Hurd. Those are the three who have been critical of the president's dealings with Ukraine, when contacted by CNN. But I do want to pull up a new tweet.

SETMAYER: Adam Kinzinger also came out and said something. And then, there was the Congressman out in Nevada who supported the impeachment. So, it's a hand -- it's a handful.

CABRERA: This is -- those were the ones that were contacted by CNN and who actually responded.


CABRERA: But I want to put up a new tweet from Senator Marco Rubio and then I'll let you weigh in here, Tara. He writes this. Before we nullify the results of an election or dismiss some very serious accusations as an attempted coup, maybe it would be a good idea to try and gather all of the facts and then give some thought to what would be in the best interest of our country. I don't know, just a thought.

So, Tara, you know, we're in contact with Rubio's office, as we speak, trying to get clarity on the senator's exact position on impeachment and the inquiry at least. But, at the very least, do you see this as maybe him having an open mind? And, if so, should that worry the president?

SETMAYER: You know, Marco Rubio has been one of the biggest disappointments for me throughout this whole ordeal. I supported him during the election and thought he would have made a great president.

But after his acquiesce to the -- to Donald Trump and just his, really, mielie melt (ph), half-assed kind of criticism here and there, maybe sort of, is really disappointing. Marco Rubio knows better. He knows that what the president is doing is unacceptable. He's been one of the biggest outspoken critics on foreign affairs, particularly against China and other corrupt regimes. And here, he can't bring himself to come out and say that what the president has done is unacceptable.

Maybe all of the Republicans need to go back and reread what our founding fathers said when they were crafting the Constitution. Like James Madison worrying about, you know, a president possibly losing the trust to a foreign power.


Maybe they need to remind -- be reminded of that. They all want to walk around with Constitutions in their pockets. They used to do that when Obama was president and bring it out and talk about how Obama violated the Constitution all the time.

Well, maybe they need to go back and read it. Because what these Republicans are doing, by not saying anything, at least denouncing a president going to foreign powers and abusing his power to influence an American election. At least they can say -- come out and say that. There's been already a lot of evidence that they could come out and condemn. But they won't because they're cowards. And, frankly, this idea of the president going after corruption, the Republicans who are buying that line, where are they about the president's corruption? Where are they about the president's inaugural committee that's under investigation? Where are they about his own kids who are profiting off the -- their position in the presidency?

Jared and -- Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump made $135 million last year, while they're in the White House. His kids are jet setting around the world, at taxpayer expense, by the way, because they get secret service protection, cutting god knows what kind of deals. They just sold $110 million in real estate --


SETMAYER: -- for the Trump Organization that the president is get -- is profiting from.

CABRERA: And I think you make a good point there, Tara. Let me give you a second to catch your breath and get Van in here one more time.

SETMAYER: It's too much. There's more. There's more. We could do a whole show on it.

CABRERA: I hear you, my friend. Van, do you think somebody, like Senator Rubio, should worry Trump?

JONES: Not yet because, so far, I think he's trying to find his way forward. One thing I think -- this is going to take a while. And what -- I think what we want to do is there's certain things we want to watch. You know, there's a Rubio we can watch. As he's showing a little bit of independence but he's not showing much.

But you want to watch, what are the suburban female voters in the industrial heartland thinking in the swing states? How much is this starting to push them down? In other words, you had a bunch of people who went for Trump in 2016. Some of those same districts went for Democrats in 2018. The election is going to be determined by that. We don't know yet how much all of this hoopla and stuff that's going on is even landing with folks.

Is it beginning to eat away at Trump support in some of those places? If that begins to happen, then, you're going to start seeing the leaders move. In other words, the -- we get it wrong. We think the leaders lead. No, the people lead, and the leaders put their finger in the wind. So, you've got a lot --

SETMAYER: We're seeing that, Van.

JONES: -- of Republicans waiting to see what's going to happen in the polls in these key districts. And once those polls start moving, you're going to see a lot more quote, unquote, "courage" from other leaders.

CABRERA: Van and Tara, I've got to leave it there, guys. Thank you, both. Good to have you with us. Good to see you, Tara. Thank you. SETMAYER: Thank you.

CABRERA: Be sure to catch "THE VAN JONES SHOW" tonight. By the way, Van is hearing from voices on all sides of this impeachment debate. It's at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN. And after Van's show, I'll be back with you, live, at 8:00.

Now, from fawning over Putin, to pestering Japan for help getting him a Nobel Prize, stunning new reporting about the president's past calls with foreign leaders, and why they left some of his aides, quote, "genuinely horrified."



CABRERA: Genuinely horrifying. That is how a former White House official describes the reaction among senior Trump aides to some of the president's phone calls with other world leaders, long before this Ukraine scandal that's now unfolding.

Now, "The Washington Post" spoke to a dozen current and former officials with knowledge of those calls. Soon after the inauguration, "The Post" says the president fawned over Russia's Vladimir Putin in their phone chat. Months later, he praised the leader of the Philippines for his approach to the drug problem, widely believed to include summarily ordering the killing of accused dealers. And "The Post" says the president badgered Japan's prime minister, hoping he'd help recommend him for a Nobel Prize.

But all of that might seem minor, compared with the president's very public favor he now appears to be asking of China to meddle in the U.S. election.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine. So, I would say that President Zelensky, if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens.


CABRERA: Joining me now, former secretary of Defense and CIA director under President Obama, Leon Panetta. Secretary Panetta, so much to get to. But here's where we begin. The president of the United States is not only doubling down on asking Ukraine to investigate a political rival, but he's also now invited China, one of the U.S. adversaries, to do the same. Do you believe that undermines the U.S. standing in the world?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT CLINTON: You know, it's -- every day brings something that is appalling, as Senator Romney, himself, stated. This is -- this is a point at which I think the president has really gone beyond anything that anyone would imagine, when he is deliberately, again, and openly violating the law, by asking a foreign country to investigate a political opponent.

But, then, when he goes to China, an adversary, a communist country, and one that we're involved in a serious trade war right now, to ask them to now investigate a political opponent, I think is an example of a president who simply does not understand what the rule of law is all about.

CABRERA: You mentioned, earlier, how the president keeps on attacking the whistle-blower who filed the complaint about his call with Ukraine. Let's listen.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The whistle-blower wrote not that conversation.


He wrote a vicious conversation. In other words, he either got it totally wrong, made it up, or the person giving the information to the whistleblower was dishonest. And this country has to find out who that person was because that person's a spy, in my opinion.


CABRERA: Secretary Panetta, are you afraid for the whistleblower?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY & FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Oh, I don't think there's any question that the president of the United States is trying to intimidate the whistleblower here, by his language, by what he's saying, calling him a spy.

And I really do think it violates the whistleblower law itself because the president now is trying to intimidate someone who's trying to bring forward what that person views as a violation that took place.

The other thing that strikes me as strange is that the president tries to sometimes confuse the transcript and the whistleblower complaint. The reality is the transcript speaks for itself.

Whatever the president thinks about that transcript, when he released it, that is probably the clearest evidence of the fact that this president was trying to convince a foreign leader to get involved in an investigation of a political opponent.

And in the context of that transcript, talking about military aid, talking about those issues, and then having the president say, but there's a favor I need to ask of you, that combination is pretty devastating in terms of proving the violation of a federal law.

CABRERA: And yet, there was a Monmouth poll this week that showed only four in 10 Republicans actually believe Trump mentioned investigating Biden on that call, even though the president himself fully acknowledged it. And it's plain as day, as you say, in the rough transcript released by the White House. So, Mr. Secretary, the idea that many of his supporters have this

knee-jerk reaction to just mistrust anything about him that could be negative, does that speak to how successful this president has been on waging a war on facts?

PANETTA: Yes, I think what I'm seeing is kind of what I would call even a Bonnie-and-Clyde strategy here where, you know, the more you violate the law, the more you rob banks, the more you kind of become a folk hero to those that support you. And you diminish the importance of the law.

But the bottom line is that, you know, whether you oppose or support this president, I think all of us as Americans know that we have to enforce the laws in this country. We cannot just stand back and ignore the violation of the law.

And ultimately, the law will catch up with this president, just like it's caught up with others who thought they could get away with violating the law.

CABRERA: You were once the chief of staff to President Clinton. I remember you told me you thought Clinton had more than paid the price for Monica Lewinsky because the shadow of impeachment would forever hang over the legacy of his presidency.

So if President Trump were impeached but not removed from office, given the GOP-controlled Senate would have to convict, do you think that's punishment enough?

PANETTA: I think it's important for the Congress to take the steps that are necessary to hold the president accountable.

That's what our forefathers intended. Our forefathers put the impeachment clause in because Hamilton and Madison were very worried that presidents of the United States might very well try to coopt foreign governments into interfering with our democracy. They were worried about that. And that's the issue that's involved here.

So they've got to proceed to do what they believe is right under the Constitution. And ultimately, whatever the Senate does, I think it is correct for the House and the Senate to proceed with the enforcement tools provided by the Constitution in order to determine whether or not a president should be impeached. That is what everybody needs to focus on now.

Yes, there'll be a time when they have to vote on this issue, as they've had in the past, and those Senators will then have to respond to their constituents as to why they voted the way they did.

But I think going through this process is necessary for the American people and for our dedication to making clear to the rest of the world that we believe in our Constitution.

CABRERA: Former Secretary Leon Panetta, thank you very much for joining us.


PANETTA: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, Bernie Sanders recovering from a heart attack. When we expect him back on the campaign trail, next.


CABRERA: Senator Bernie Sanders is resting this weekend, recovering from the heart attack doctors say he suffered a few days ago. The 78- year-old spent two nights in a Las Vegas hospital, walking out Friday with a smile and a wave, telling people outside that he feels great.

Senator Sanders and his wife also posted an upbeat video on Twitter.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Hello, everybody. We're in Las Vegas. I just got out of the hospital a few hours ago, and I'm feeling so much better. I just want to thank all of you for the love and warm wishes that you sent to me. See you soon on the campaign trail.


CABRERA: I want to bring in CNN national political reporter, Maeve Reston.

Maeve, good to see the Senator up and talking, seeming to have more energy and recovering well.


Let's talk, though, about this health scare and how it could affect his campaign. It reminds people that the Senator, for all his energy, is not a young man.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: That's exactly right, Ana. As you've seen many times over these presidential campaigns, age can kind of creep in as a factor when voters are reminded of candidates' health and potential frailty.

This came up a lot, for example, when John McCain was running. You remember when Hillary Clinton also had a health scare. That that was something Donald Trump and his campaign tried to bring up repeatedly to use against them. So it can be a vulnerability.

What I expect we'll see Bernie Sanders do here is just get out there on the campaign trail as soon as he can. His advisers have said he will participate in our debate coming up on October 15th. And they say he's raring to go.

CABRERA: And he's going out there with some momentum in the fundraising department.

RESTON: Yes. CABRERA: He hauled in more than any other candidate in this past quarter, more than $25 million. Behind him was Senator Warren, then Pete Buttigieg and Joe Biden. This is huge considering that many analysts say Sanders and Warren are likely polling from the same pool of supporters, Maeve.

RESTON: It's so interesting, especially because the most important factor in those totals, they're raising so much money from these small-dollar donors who can continue to keep contributing to their campaigns again and again. That's really where you see the energy behind those top two candidates there, Sanders and Warren.

We know that Joe Biden has been doing some of these bigger dollar fundraisers. So that's a real contrast between his campaign and the energy that we're seeing behind Sanders and Warren.

It's remarkable that Sanders has been able to sustain that, even from the last campaign -- Ana?

CABRERA: You reported this week Senator Kamala Harris is losing support, even in her home state of California. A new Public Policy Institute of California poll shows the junior Senator with just 8 percent among likely voters in that state. So where does the Harris campaign go from here, Maeve?

RESTON: Well, right now, she is headed to or already in South Carolina, talking to voters there. That's obviously a huge part of her strategy, to try to reactivate, re-energize the supporters. That is what her campaign considered to be a must-win state for her.

But it is really -- it was kind of jarring to see her tumble in the polls in her home state of California. She was at 19 percent earlier this summer. So she's really trying to reboot her campaign here and get back up there on top -- Ana?

CABRERA: Maeve Reston, thank you so much. Good to have you with us.

RESTON: Thank you.

CABRERA: A programming note. CNN partners with the Human Rights Campaign to present a groundbreaking CNN town hall event, "Equality in America." Join the candidates as they discuss issues facing the LGBTQ community. That's Thursday, starting at 7:00 Eastern, on CNN.

We'll be right back.



CABRERA: The impeachment saga may be gripping Washington, but what do voters in their parts of the country think?

CNN's Miguel Marquez traveled to Michigan, a swing state that Trump won by just 11,000 votes.


MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): All-important Macomb County, Michigan. Has impeachment dented the president's support here?

MARQUEZ (on camera): Did you vote for the president or Clinton in 2016?


MARQUES: For the president.

Are you still just as happy with him?

JONES: No comment.

MARQUEZ (voice over): Some of the president's supporters are on the fence, but most we spoke to see impeachment as little more than politics.

MATTHEW KALINOWSKI, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think it's a lot of just people don't like him and they want him out of office, the left and the media.

MARQUEZ: John Skantze voted for Trump in 2016 and had concerns early on. Six months ago, he thought Joe Biden might be an option. Now, he says, the push for impeachment has him supporting the president more than ever.

JOHN SKANTZE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: They are there for one thing now and one thing only, and that's to try to impeach the president.

MARQUEZ: But Democrats here say moving forward with the impeachment process could sway voters to their side.

MARQUEZ (on camera): Does it help --


MARQUEZ: -- voters in Macomb county?

CHI: I think so. I think so. Because I think people in Macomb County want to see what's -- see what's being done, see the right thing being done.



MARQUEZ (voice over): Obama won Macomb and Michigan twice. Trump easily one Macomb and flipped the state by a razor-thin margin.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And who won the state of Michigan after decades?


MARQUEZ: The county critical to both parties.

Republican strategist, Jamie Roe, says the drive for impeachment will only help re-elect the president and Republicans.

JAMIE ROE, GRAND RIVER STRATEGIES: If they're going to try and impeach him on this Ukraine business, I think that they are -- they are driving themselves straight back to the minority in the House.

MARQUEZ: Paul Kanan, with the Michigan Democratic Party says, while impeachment is important, Democrats also need to keep their focus on the issues.

PAUL KANAN, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY: We need to be talking about what affects people on a day-to-day basis, and that is -- that's those blue-collar pocketbook issues.

MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Macomb County, Michigan.


CABRERA: In the city of Chicago, more than 2,000 people have been shot this year. Tired of seeing news reports about the ongoing violence in her city, this week's "CNN Hero" had an idea. What if she helped people regain a sense of community one block at a time?


ROBIN CARROLL, CNN HERO: I started coming out to the community. The lots were all empty. The houses were getting boarded up. People were not coming outside.

I stood on the corner and just asked anyone that walked by, are you interested in taking back your community. And everyone said absolutely, yes.

We are really brave space and courageous space.

We're going to work there.

We will work through all of what is holding you back to becoming the person and the potential that you have to be.



CABRERA: For the full story, go to

And coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, the press corps turns press control? Jeanne Moos is on the runaway mouse in the White House.





CABRERA: Welcome back.

With all the talk of who is ratting out whom in Washington, it figures that a mouse would suddenly join the mix.

Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A runaway mouse, a hunk of cheese and out-of-control catering cart. It's almost enough to take your mind off impeachment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, there he goes.

MOOS: The mouse was in the White House. NBC correspondent, Peter Alexander, tweeted, "A mouse literally fell out of the ceiling in our White House booth and landed on my lap."

The press gave chase.


MOOS: The rodent ended up in the briefing room.


MOOS: Inspiring a tweeted cartoon showing a cornered rodent and endless jokes about the rats literally jumping ship. "It's the whistleblower. It's prefers to remain anony-mouse."


MOOS: Someone tried to trap it placing gaffer tapes sticky-side-up. Maybe they should have tried cheese, like the wedge of parmesan offered by a journalist from a satirical show who crashed the photo-op between Secretary of State Pompeo and Italy's prime minister.


She asked Pompeo to give it to President Trump --


MOOS: -- before being hustled away. The stunt was meant to protest possible tariffs on Italian food products. Pompeo patted his belly.

Without cheese as bait, the press gave up the chase back at the White House.

(on camera): But the mouse wasn't the only thing running amok this news cycle.

(voice-over): Like a rodent running in circles, this catering cart at Chicago's O'Hare spun wildly. A case of water had slipped onto the gas pedal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to hit the airplane. Here it goes.

MOOS: But to the rescue, an American Airlines team member rammed the cart with a vehicle used to push airplanes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's how you do it.

MOOS: That's how the ramp instructor did it.

But someone spun the rescue into a political meme, labeling the out- of-control cart as the Trump administration with Nancy Pelosi and Republicans looking on helplessly. Boom! Here comes the whistleblower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's how you do it.

MOOS: Nothing mousey about this whistleblower.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


CABRERA: I'm Ana Cabrera. I'll see you back here two hours from now.

"S.E. CUPP" continues our coverage of today's news right after a break. Stay there.