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Second Whistleblower Comes Forward On The Trump-Ukraine Case; Republicans Rush To Defend Trump; Former Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld Is Asked About The Republican Party's Response On Trump's Ukraine Call And Impeachment Inquiry; Elie Honig Answers Legal Questions On "Cross-Exam"; Joe Biden Slams Trump, Affecting His Campaign; Key Witness In Dallas Police Trial Shot Dead; U.S Diplomat's Wife Claiming Immunity After Being Involved In Deadly Car Accident. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 6, 2019 - 17:00   ET



ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: But if what this attorney says is true, this second whistleblower offers something different -- actual firsthand knowledge of what the president said to Ukraine's leaders.

And that it backs up the original accusation that Trump tried to get the head of a foreign country to find something incriminating on a political opponent with the goal of affecting next year's election here in the U.S.

This second whistleblower is not welcome news for the administration. It just adds to the mounting pressure on Capitol Hill as House committees want to see documents from the Secretary of State, from the Vice President, and from the White House.

Also today, word from the U.S. Department of Energy that Secretary Rick Perry both supported and encouraged President Trump to make that July phone call to Ukraine, but for a different reason, it says.

That's the call in which President Trump admits he brought up Joe Biden and his son. Okay, staying with me here? Let's go back this reported second whistleblower. We just got confirmation about this person today.

Already officials who are standing with the president are shrugging it off as no big deal. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham tweeting a short time ago, "When it comes to more whistleblowers coming forward I've seen this movie before with Brett Kavanaugh. More and more doesn't mean better or reliable."

And just a few minutes ago, official response from the White House to reports of the second whistleblower. This is from Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham, "It doesn't matter how many people decide to call themselves whistleblowers about the same telephone call, a call the president already made public, it doesn't change the fact he has done nothing wrong."

CNN Senior Justice Correspondent, Evan Perez joins us. And Evan, Senator Lindsey Graham, now the White House dismissing this

reported second whistleblower as nothing to see here. Graham even trying to compare this to the Kavanaugh accusations.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, this is far different from the Kavanaugh accusations. You have here now someone who by their claims through their lawyer says that they have firsthand knowledge of what went on, on the president's phone call with the Ukrainian president.

And Ana, here is this. The other thing is that the release of the transcript by the White House shows you that what the whistleblower was raising questions about and concerns about are kind of right there in black and white on the papers that the White House has released.

We also know from the text messages or being exchanged by some diplomats including the Ukrainian ambassador, the ambassador in Kiev, that they perceive that what the president and his allies were doing, some of the people who work with the president including Rudy Giuliani.

And what they were doing was essentially pressuring the Ukrainians by withholding aid in exchange for, you know, an investigation that would end up helping the president's campaign. So, you have a lot of information here that has essentially corroborated some of what --


PEREZ: -- the whistleblower was saying. So, this is far different from anything else that we've seen.

CABRERA: And so because there's already all this information, talk to us more about what this second whistleblower could add to the case.

PEREZ: Well, here is the thing. The whistleblower says that not only do they have firsthand knowledge. We know that they've already spoken to the inspector general.

That's a key thing because one of the things we saw from the inspector general's communication with the director of National Intelligence and with the Justice Department and with Congress is that they investigated the whistleblower's complaint and they found corroboration.

They interviewed other people and so one of the things that they've said is this is why they felt that the whistleblower's original complaint had credibility. It added to the reason they felt it was an urgent concern that needed to be noticed to the intelligence committees on Capitol Hill.

So, again, I think what this does is it propels the impeachment inquiry that is now being done in the House and it makes it harder for the president and his allies to say that there's nothing here, nothing worth investigating.

I think there's a lot of information we still need to get and I think this helps to add pressure for us to be able to get that.

CABRERA: Would Senator Lindsey Graham or any Trump supporter even know what this second whistleblower has to say? How can they so confidently just blow off what he or she has to say without hearing it?

PEREZ: I think that's a great point and I think that's kind of not what they care about. I think the president's allies see this as a political issue and so getting more information is really not what they're about.

They view this as a strictly political issue and they're fighting on the side of the president to debunk what the Democrats are doing because they look at it completely not as an issue of wrongdoing but as something that's going to be fought out over the next few months before the election.


CABRERA: Evan Perez, thank you for that reporting. Here is how other Republican lawmakers are responding today. First up, we have Congressman Jim Jordan who despite being asked repeatedly, refused to say whether it's appropriate for President Trump to call on China to investigate Joe Biden.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: Do you think it's appropriate for President Trump to ask China and Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): George, do you really think he was serious about thinking that China is going to investigate the Biden family?

STEPHANOPOULOS: He said it right there in public.

JORDAN: I think he's getting -- I think Senator Rubio said a couple of days ago, I think he's getting the press all spun up about this. Remember, this is the president who has been tougher on China than any other president.

He wants to make sure China to quit stealing America's intellectual property. He wants to make sure they start abiding by international trade norms and tougher than anyone --

STEPHANOPOULOS: He said directly --

JORDAN: He put tariffs on China and you really think he says, oh, the same guy who's been tougher on China now thinks, oh, China is going to investigate the -- he was just making a statement to just underscore how wrong it is what took place here with Hunter Biden giving these deals that he got. That's all he's doing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, the president asked China to investigate. We're not supposed to take the president at his word?

JORDAN: Again, I think Senator Rubio said it best. This is the president. You guys would think after three and a half years with the campaign and everything else you'd figure out some of the ways that this guy --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But he said in public the exact same thing he said in private to the Ukrainian president.

JORDAN: I wish there would be the same outrage for this -- for what the president said about China, the same outrage that there was when we saw what -- when the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee hired a foreigner who worked with Russians to dig up dirt on the president --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Shall I conclude from that you don't think it would be appropriate for the president to ask China to investigate the Bidens?

JORDAN: I think he's just making this -- I'm just telling you what the statement is. You asked me about the statement. I'm saying I don't think he's -- I don't think anyone in America really believes except people maybe in the press and some Democrats in Congress, really believe that the president of the United States thinks China is going to investigate. He's making a statement.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he's asking for it and the president hasn't said he's joking. He said a very direct statement. He wasn't smiling there. He wasn't laughing. It wasn't a joke.

JORDAN: You don't think this president has been the toughest president on China? Imposed tariffs on China.


JORDAN: You don't think this president wants to make sure China starts abiding by international trade norms, starts dealing with the theft of intellectual property? You don't think, I mean, okay, you can think that, but I just don't think that's what the --

STEPHANOPOULOS: No. I'm asking if you think it's appropriate for the president to ask China to investigate.

JORDAN: I think he's saying what's on the minds of so many Americans.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not what I'm asking.

JORDAN: I think he's saying what's on the mind of so many Americans. How does the vice president's son get a billion dollars from a bank, a subsidiary of the bank of China, how does he get that deal just a couple of weeks after he flies on Air Force Two to China? I think he's just pointing out the fact. He says it in the way he says it, but I don't think it's really like, oh, China go investigate the Bidens.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not a fact and it's not true and the Chinese have denied it as well, but I'm still -- I still haven't got an answer to the question. Is it appropriate for the president to ask China to investigate Joe Biden?

JORDAN: I think he's got you guys all spun up and I'm just -- and you've asked me the question --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you're not answering it.

JORDAN: -- you've asked me the question, like four times.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, because you haven't answered it.

JORDAN: I don't think he really meant go investigate. Do you think China is going to investigate him?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if China is going to investigate him. I know the president asked China to investigate.

JORDAN: We know they're not. We know they're not, George, come on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why can't you answer yes or no, do you think it's appropriate?

JORDAN: Because I don't think that's what he did. I don't think that's what he did.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it was right there on camera.


CABRERA: Wow. Republican Senator Ron Johnson also sat down for an interview today and it seemed like he had some cleanup to do after telling "The Wall Street Journal" earlier this week that a State Department official told him there was a quid pro quo with Ukraine. Senator Johnson's cleanup strategy, deflect.


SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): He had this false narrative that resulted in him being set up by James Comey on January 16th. Then he his counsel appointed that has hampered this entire investigation --


JOHNSON: -- his entire administration. And now once he's been -- that was proven false, he would like to know, and I would like to know and I know his supporters would like to know where did this all come from? Who planted that false story?

TODD: Senator --

JOHNSON: I have my third letter into the inspector general of the intelligence committee asking to just confirm, just confirm are you investigating those leaks that Peter Strzok talked about in that testimony --

TODD: All right, senator, I have no idea why --

JOHNSON: So again -- no, that's a setup. It is entirely relevant to this point.

TODD: -- why a FOX News conspiracy propaganda stuff is popping up on here. I have no idea. I have no idea why we're going here.

JOHNSON: That is exactly -- because this is an underlying --

TODD: Senator, I'm asking about --

JOHNSON: -- exactly why President Trump is upset and why his supporters are upset at the news media.

TODD: Okay, this is not about the media.

JOHNSON: Here's the deal -- here's the deal --

TODD: Senator Johnson, please, can we please answer the question that I asked you instead of trying to make Donald Trump feel better here that you're not criticizing --

JOHNSON: I'm not --



CABRERA: Why aren't they answering the question directly? Why aren't they answering yes or no questions? Why are they refusing to call this what it is? Wrong. Inappropriate. Possibly even illegal. Senator Mitt Romney might have answer after criticizing Trump's request for China to investigate Biden.

The president spent yesterday tearing into him, insulting him, using expletives, even calling for his impeachment. Side note, Congress members cannot be impeached. Joining us now, Republican Bill Weld, the former governor of Massachusetts. He's launched a primary run and hopes to unseat President Trump. Governor, good to have you with us.

BILL WELD (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: Thank you, Ana. Good to be with you.

CABRERA: What do you think of how your party is handling or responding to all of this?

WELD: I think Representative Joe Walsh had it right when he was on TV this morning with Mark Sanford when he said the reason that the White House and the Republicans are not answering is because there is no answer. It's as simple as that.

CABRERA: No answer? What's your answer to those questions?

WELD: Well, you know, if anything is clear from history, it's the people who wrote the Constitution were most worried when they created the office of president of the United States about two things. One was foreign interference with our government and the other was use of public office for private gain also known as corruption of the public office.

And President Trump has very clearly violated both of those rules. And what's needed now is not just a vote to launch an impeachment inquiry and marshal all the evidence, but the removal of this president from office. And that's what happens after this thing goes over to the Senate.

I don't think the senators have to declare in advance what they're going to do, but it's pretty clear to me that their constitutional duty is to follow the evidence and vote to remove the president from office.

CABRERA: Based on the information that is already out there that we have in the public sphere, you believe the president should be impeached?

WELD: I believe he should be impeached and removed from office. And this isn't just information that is out there. This is information that's been confirmed in spades by the White House and by the president himself -- the effort to get the leader of Ukraine, which is in a hot war with Russia -- Russia is our enemy if anyone in the world is -- to "dig up dirt," on Hunter Biden in a case that had already been closed.

And the president saying, you know, I know I froze a lot of your military aid. I need a favor though. I mean, that makes it very plain and it's a quid pro quo.

CABRERA: What would you tell somebody who might say, oh, sure you want to see him removed from office because that's just going to benefit you politically in your primary campaign.

WELD: You know, I don't really have a dog in that fight. I'm undertaking this as is Representative Walsh because I'm trying to save the country. You know, the country has battered country syndrome right now. It's like battered women's syndrome. We really need to get back to the business of taking care of the people of this country and I don't think that's going to happen until Mr. Trump goes.

He succeeded in creating sort of whirlwind vortex the last three years where everything is all about him and people all over the country that I meet are just -- they are tired. They're exhausted as a matter of fact because everything is about pandering to the fantasies of one quite ill man who happens to be president of the United States --

CABRERA: Let me ask you then --

WELD: And I think at this point, it's a question of saving the country.

CABRERA: On the second whistleblower who is coming forward, there's now Democratic Congressman Jim Himes reacting to it earlier today and I'd like to get your take on the back side of this.

WELD: Sure.


REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What's happening, Margaret, is that people around the president, professionals who are in the Oval Office, who are in the situation room, are watching what is happening and are finally saying, my god, this cannot happen anymore.

And they are coming forward either as whistleblowers as apparently as many as two people are going to do officially, but also leaking which, by the way, is not a good thing but an awful lot of the story is coming out.

Because people who are in the room are talking to the "Washington Post" and the "New York Times" and to others, so the president's real problem is that his behavior has finally gotten to a place where people are saying enough.


CABRERA: When you're out there campaigning, governor, do you get the sense that Republican voters have had enough?

WELD: I get the sense that everybody is exhausted and they would rather talk about health care and things that hit them at home. But that doesn't change the analysis of what needs to be done under the Constitution.

I would like to see the members of Congress remember that they owe allegiance to the flag and to the nation for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible. You know, the president has been seeking to divide us for the last three years.


And, you know, in terms of the evidence of his call to Ukraine and trying to get the man to corrupt his office, that's a case stated as Leader McConnell said in a different connection, case closed. It's an open and shut case.

CABRERA: How do you get the American people to go along with it because many of the Republicans you need to win over go home at night, they turn on Fox News and this is what they've been hearing and seeing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This leak and coup campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time you hear the word impeachment you have to substitute the word coup and the coup needs to be shut down.

NEWT GINGRICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: What you're watching is a legislative coup de'tat. This is not an impeachment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is nothing less than an attempted coup de'tat and the end run around the ballot box.


CABRERA: So, couple that with this new poll this week that finds just 40 percent of Republicans believes the president asked Ukraine to investigate Biden despite the president admitting he did it and despite the fact the White House released the transcript which shows he did it. Are you worried that all the facts aren't getting through to Republican voters?

WELD: If that 40 percent figure is correct, that seems to be the case, but the clips you just played, that's nothing more than political rhetoric. And I think by the Constitution and the law, it's very clear what needs to be done and the House should vote to commission an impeachment inquiry and then marshal the evidence, send it over to the Senate.

And then my hope is that the Republican senators will do their duty and follow the evidence. If they don't, I'm not sure that I think there's a good long-term prognosis for the Republican Party in Washington.

CABRERA: Back to your bid then to be president, to defeat President Trump in 2020. If you can't beat him in the primary have you considered launching a third party bid trying to win over votes in key states that could have razor thin margins?

WELD: No. No, no. No, I would not do that. I have said that under no circumstances would I support Donald Trump for any office whatsoever, and that stands.

CABRERA: Why not run as a third party candidate?

WELD: No, I just think there's some risk of muddying the water there and, you know, having already cast my lot to run as a Republican because of my long association with the party and thinking that that's the best way to engage Mr. Trump directly, I'm not going to vary that course.

CABRERA: Governor Bill Weld, it's good to have you with us. Thank you so much for taking the time.

WELD: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Another whistleblower now coming forward and a deluge of spin coming from the president and his allies. Elie Honig joins us to answer your questions about the impeachment inquiry, next.



CABRERA: Back to our top story now, the revelation of a second whistleblower. Trump continues to lash out at the whistleblowers and at House Democrats who are continuing their impeachment inquiry into the president's actions.

And I know you have a lot of questions about all of this so it's time for our weekly segment, "Cross-Exam" with CNN Legal Analyst and former and federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig.

And with the news just moving so fast and new twists and turns seemingly coming every hour, we're doing something special tonight. Elie's going to join us every hour until 9:00 to answer your questions. And Elie, I know you have been bombarded with questions this past week.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's great. It's great.

CABRERA: So, this first question has to do with the first whistleblower who was not a direct witness, and the president has, you know, called these allegations hearsay information. This viewer wants to know, does that mean it can't be used in impeachment?

HONIG: So, no. This is an attack the messenger strategy because the actual message itself, I think, is so damaging. And I've seen this in criminal case that is I've done. When the evidence starts to get really strong, that's when the personal attacks and the distractions start flying.

So, this word hearsay, President Trump has said, well, the whistleblower only has hearsay. What does it mean? Kind of what it sounds like. It's when someone knows something because they learned it or heard it from another source.

Some types of hearsay can be used at criminal trials, some cannot. But the big point here is, this is impeachment. This is not a criminal trial. Congress can use whatever evidence it chooses to use. And ultimately, this is really not about the whistleblower himself or herself or now themselves.

It is about the actual evidence that the whistleblower is bringing forward. And let's remember, the whistleblower's complaint, the first one, is backed up most importantly by Donald Trump's own words and the call, by the State Department text that we saw last week. And so I would urge everyone, don't be distracted by the personal attacks on the whistleblower. Let's focus on the facts as we move through this.

CABRERA: Amen, brother. Now, the president ha also said the whistleblower should be treated like spies. So, this viewer asked, that means President Trump has committed witness intimidation.

HONIG: To be clear, when he talks about treated like spies (inaudible) that means execution. Now, I do not think the president is literally saying people should be executed, but I do think his message is clear. It's a message of intimidation and threat and federal law makes it a crime to intimidate or threaten a person in order to influence, delay or prevent their testimony.

I think that's a perfect fit for what we're seeing here. I think it applies squarely. Now, let's remember, the president has a prior history of doing this. In the Mueller report, Robert Mueller called out the president for trying to dissuade Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, from testifying. So, he's not a first-timer here.

What are the consequences? Ultimately Congress, if they so choose can pursue an article of impeachment. The president cannot be charged criminally while in office or won't be by DOJ, but when he's out of office, he can be charged. But in absolute minimum, I think it shows us a guilty conscience because common sense tells us and the law tells us when someone tries to tamper with the witnesses there's a reason behind it.

CABRERA: And you would know because you have lots of experience in that department.

HONIG: I've seen it.

CABRERA: Another viewer question here, could President Trump have committed bribery by pushing the Ukrainian president to investigate the Bidens?

HONIG: So, I want to repeat this mantra. You do not need a crime in order to impeach. But if you do have a crime, I think you have an especially strong case for impeachment.

So, bribery happens when an official, including the president, directly or indirectly seeks some sort of thing of value in exchange for official action. We hear a lot about this phrase, quid pro quo, which just means this for that.

It does not need to be explicit but it really essentially is here. If you look at the text we saw last week, right, the one text from a State Department official, heard from the White House, assuming President Z, the Ukrainian president, convinces Trump he will investigate, then we will nail down a date for the visit to Washington.


I mean, that's about as clear as you're going to see. And of course, the president himself said on the call with Zelensky, famous quote, "I would like to you do us a favor though." One of our viewers made such a good point there about the word though.

She wrote in and said, it's like if a teenager said, mom, I need $5 and the mom said, I need you to do the dishes though, right. The though ties the ask to the favor as for on the other side. So, great job by our viewers, lots of (inaudible) left to come.

CABRERA: Yes. And we're glad to have you with us to guide us. Thank you Elie. Make sure you keep your questions coming tonight. You can submit them at And Elie will be back next hour to answer more of your questions.

Joe Biden is taking on President Trump in a new op-ed this weekend, but with the former vice president having to play defense on his son's involvement in Ukraine, how is this scandal impacting his campaign? We'll discuss.


CABRERA: President Trump is continuing his accusations against former Vice President Joe Biden with a twitter rant earlier today complete with name calling and baseless allegations. And while there is no evidence of any wrongdoing by Biden or his son, the president's allegations are putting the former vice president in a defensive position.


Biden wrote an op-ed in the "Washington Post" this week and slamming the president calling Trump's actions an abuse of power and is continuing to face questions about this on the campaign trail as well. Here he was on Friday responding to a question in Los Angeles.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's indicted himself by his own statements. This is a guy that's unhinged. He is unhinged. I worry about what he's going to do. Not about me or my family. I worry about what he'll do in the next year of the presidency as this thing continues to rot on his watch. This guy like all bullies is a coward. He does not want to run against me.


CABRERA: With me now is the nonfiction editor at the "Washington Post," Steven Levingston. He is the author of the upcoming book "Barak and Joe: The Making of an Extraordinary Partnership." Steven, let me read you a portion of Biden's op-ed this week.

And he writes, "And to Trump and those who facilitate his abuses of power, and all the special interests funding his attacks against me; please know that I'm not going anywhere. You won't destroy me and you won't destroy my family. And come November 2020 I intend to beat you like a drum." How do you think all of this is impacting Biden personally?

STEVEN LEVINGSTON, NONFICTION EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think it's very tough for Vice President Biden to see his family dragged through the mud this way especially his son. But I do think it was time for Biden to speak out and defend himself.

He's been quiet for quite some time and he's letting, in some ways, letting the president define the narrative, a false narrative actually. So, it's time for him to step up. And if we look at what's been said lately, we had the former special envoy to Ukraine who was testifying before the House committee that's investigating the abuses of President Trump.

And he came out as we learned today or over the weekend that he said that Biden was a man of integrity and he felt that there were no credibility to any of the allegations that the president has lodged against Joe Biden.


LEVINGSTON: And it's kind of important to add also, as I write in my book, when President Obama was vetting Joe Biden for vice president, he put him through a massive period of investigation. Biden had 30 years of public service to look into and the Obama team went through it all. And in the end they didn't find a whiff of corruption. They didn't find anything.

In fact, Obama -- when Obama was interviewing Biden, Obama said -- he made a joke and he said, Joe, you've been in service for 30 years and you're still pretty much one of the poorest people in the Senate, which implies that Joe did not ever use his position for personal gain. But I think that Joe Biden that we saw then is still the Joe Biden we see today.

CABRERA: Hunter Biden, of course, is part of all of this, Joe Biden's son. And I want to reiterate again, there is no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden, by Joe Biden or Hunter Biden. However, Hunter has been open about his difficult past and I just wonder if, you know, the Biden campaign could have known that he could become a point of vulnerability perhaps for the campaign.

LEVNGSTON: I think I remember seeing somewhere that yes, they knew that this might come up during the campaign and it was going to be a sore point, perhaps. And if you want to be honest about it, yes, perhaps Hunter should not have been involved in the companies that he was involved with.

It's a little bit unseemly. It's a kind of thing that go -- people do all the time, kind of using their personal prestige to get certain jobs, but it must be stated also that nothing has been found about Hunter Biden that is corrupt in anything he did. It's just the way that Washington works.

CABRERA: Yes. I remember we talked about previously how Obama warned Joe Biden prior to his campaign, you don't have to do this, Joe. Do you think after President Obama watched Trump attack his Republican opponents and then Hillary Clinton back in the 2016 election that this is the sort of thing he was referring to about, you know, the way he would come after him in such a tough way.

LEVINGSTON: Well, maybe but I think Obama is a pretty tough guy and he knows Joe is a pretty tough guy and he knows what politics is all about and Joe can take care of himself as we've seen lately.

He's going to come out and he's going to come out swinging. And I don't think that these allegations will have much of an impact on him in the long run, but he's got to answer them.

CABRERA: You look at the latest fund-raising numbers, though, and we have Elizabeth Warren, we have Bernie Sanders raking in more than or about $10 million more than Joe Biden in the last quarter.


We also have seen Elizabeth Warren rising and matching or even overtaking Joe Biden in some of the recent polling. Do you think that this is impacting his campaign and is potentially hurting him?

LEVINGSTON: Well, I think some of the fund-raising goes back before all of these latest whistleblower announcements were made. And I think Elizabeth Warren was surging already so we're sort of seeing the push and pull of what a campaign is all about. But it is a long way to go and you just don't know. I mean, I'm no

political pundit. I just, you know, write books and work at the "Washington Post" doing book reviews, but -- and I'm not a Biden partisan by any stretch.

But I do think that there is a long way to go in this election and you just cannot predict anything. You hear a lot of predictions about what's going to happen, but we haven't had a single real primary yet or a caucus. We just have to wait and see.

CABRERA: And in this recent "New York Times" article, President Obama's former White House chief of staff William Daly said about Biden, "He's never gone negative. That's not him. That's the charm of Joe." Can he avoid going negative since he's now, you know, has a match with Elizabeth Warren?

LEVINGSTON: All right. Well, he's going a bit negative in refuting the allegations against him, but I think what he' also going to do is benefit from what he's always been know for and that is his authenticity. When he strikes back, he's going to strike back I think strongly, but he's going to strike back based on the facts and the facts as he knows them.

He's not going to be making up things. He's going to just be speaking from his heart, which is what people were really attracted to him about in the past.

CABRERA: Steven Levingston, really good to have your voiceyou're your insights. Thank you.

LEVINGSTON: Thank you.

CABRERA: The impeachment inquiry into President Trump has engulfed Washington, but what do everyday voters think about it? We'll hear from some of them, next.



CABRERA: Will it hurt him or help him? As Democrats ramp up their impeachment efforts against President Trump, many are wondering how will it impact the presidency and the 2020 election. We talk a lot about Washington and reaction on both sides of the aisle, but what are everyday Americans saying? Kyung Lah joins us now. She is in Iowa talking to voters there. Kyung, what are you hearing?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I want to be very specific, and that we are talking to Iowa Democrats. And the reason we are is because we spent the day following Kamala Harris volunteers as they were canvassing neighborhoods.

They're going out trying to knock on doors, get people to support Harris. And when we talked to both those volunteers and the people who they were trying to persuade to come on to the campaign, this is what those Democrats told us. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL HARVEY, IOWA RESIDENT: They should go harder and faster. It's (inaudible) out the day. There's another -- they think there's another whistleblower and I think they should come out and I think they should attack him as fast as they can.

DAWN BLACK, IOWA RESIDENT: I think they're being very aggressive which they need to be. If they're going to go through with this, I think they're doing their research. I think they're doing their homework. I think they're speaking out. I think they're taking action. And I think that they're very serious about this which makes me happy.


LAH: And those are two Iowa Democrats talking about what they're seeing from Democrats out of Washington, D.C. One other thing I want to add, Ana, when you go to the campaigns, so in this case, I went to the Kamala Harris campaign and asked them how is this impeachment inquiry changing anything for you on the ground.

They're saying yes, of course we're paying attention to it. You have to pay attention to the news, but it's not changing the fact that they believe you have to keep talking about the issues that matter to Democrats, namely health care. Ana.

CABRERA: Okay, Kyung Lah for us in Iowa. Thank you.

Just two days after a Dallas cop is sentenced for killing an unarmed man in his own apartment, a key witness in the trial is shot to death. Details on what we know, next.



CABRERA: In Dallas, a stunning tragedy following the recent murder trial of former police officer Amber Guyger. A key witness for the prosecution was shot to death Friday night. Authorities say Joshua Brown was found in the parking lot with multiple gunshot wounds.

We don't know why he was killed, but he was the neighbor who testified he had heard the confrontation between Guyger and Botham Jean the night she shot him in his own apartment. CNN's Polo Sandoval has more.


POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before his murder on Friday, Joshua Brown made headlines as a key witness for the trial of Dallas officer Amber Guyger.

JOSHUA BROWN, WITNESS: My apartment was right here. I can reach out and both apartments probably directly across from mine.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Last week, Guyger was convicted of killing Botham Jean after walking into his apartment in 2018. She claimed to have mistaken his apartment for hers and thought he was an intruder.

On the witness stand 10 days before his own shooting death outside his home, Brown testified he heard the shots and saw Guyger outside his apartment. Brown got emotional recounting hearing his neighbor's voice from time to time.

Lee Merritt, the civil rights attorney representing the Jean family said on social media, "Brown lived in constant fear of gun violence and that his death, "underscores the reality of the black experience in America."

Merritt also said, "Brown deserves the same justice that he sought to ensure for the Jean family." Investigators have released few details on Brown's death, only that witnesses heard gunshots and that they observed a silver four-door sedan speeding away from the scene. Police have not said if the murder is in any way connected to the Guyger proceedings. Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.


CABRERA: The wife of a U.S. diplomat facing backlash in Britain for leaving the country after a fatal car accident she was involved in. Details, ahead. I



CABRERA: British police tell CNN that a U.S. diplomat's wife who left the U.K. after being involved in a deadly car crash was driving on the wrong side of the road. 19-year-old Harry Dunn was on his motorcycle in late August in England when he was killed.

Despite the ongoing investigation, the diplomat's wife is now back in the U.S. and is claiming diplomatic immunity. CNN's Anna Stewart joins us now from London, and Anna, you spoke with the victim's family today. What did they say?

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This family is living a nightmare. Their son died in an absolutely terrible accident. They said he was by the side of the road in the hospital as she had to come to him because it was evident so many of his bones were broken and they simply couldn't save him.

And then after his funeral, they find out the suspect who they knew was the wife of a U.S. diplomat had actually left the country without telling the police and no one knows where she is. And the feeling today of speaking to that family is just they are feeling such anguish. Take a listen to what Harry's mother had to say.


CHARLOTTE CHARLES, MOTHER OF HARRY DUNN: It can't be right that somebody, a diplomat or their family can come over to the U.K. or any other country, kill somebody unintentionally or not and just go away and ignore what's happened and leave us with nothing. We can't change what's happened to Harry and we can't get him back,

but what we will do our absolutely utmost to do is to make sure it doesn't happen to another family.


STEWART: The family wanted to speak to us, wanted to speak to CNN so that our viewers all around the world and in America can see and understand their story and what's going on because they feel that the police here in the U.K. and the government even can't do anything to help when it comes to this very complicated issue of diplomatic immunity. They want more pressure I guess from people from the public on the U.S. government.

CABRERA: And what is the U.S. response then to waiving the diplomat's wife's immunity?

STEWART: Well, this has already gone to the highest levels. So the British foreign secretary released a statement this weekend saying he has spoken to the U.S. ambassador to the U.K. He has expressed the U.K.'s disappointment, but that's as far as it went there.

And then we spoke to the U.S. State Department and put this question to him, how, you know, could the diplomatic immunity be waived in this case? And I'll bring you their response.

They said, "Any questions regarding a waiver of immunity with regard to our diplomats and their family members overseas, in a case like this, receive intense attention at senior levels and are considered carefully given the global impact such decisions carry; immunity is rarely waived."


And this family hopes for an exception here. They hope immunity is waived, but if it isn't, they're not going to stop here. They're not just speaking to the British government. They are also raising funds on a GoFund me page, Justice for Harry is its name, and they are going to raise money to go to Washington if need be and they want to speak to the U.S. president, Ana.

CABRERA: Anna Stewart in London for us. Thank you. CNN is now learning a second whistleblower with firsthand knowledge of the president's interactions with Ukraine is coming forward. But Trump's allies are ready and they are dismissing those claims. The facts, next.


CABRERA: We have this just in to CNN. Former President Jimmy Carter getting a few stitches above his brow after suffering a fall at his home in Plains, Georgia.

And according to a statement from the Carter Center, the 95-year-old is feeling fine, adding that he and former First Lady Rosalynn Carter are eager to be at Habitat for Humanity at this build event in Nashville this week. Carter survived a dire cancer diagnosis back in 2015. He currently holds the record for the longest living U.S. President.

A quick programming note for you. CNN partners with the human rights campaign to present a ground breaking CNN town hall event, Equality in America. Join 2020 candidates as they discuss issues facing the LGBTQ community in a night of back-to-back town halls, Thursday night starting at 7:00 eastern here on CNN.


You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for staying with me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.