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Cuomo Prime Time

Sources: Diplomat Says Giuliani Pushed For Visa For Former Ukrainian Official Who Promised Dirt on Bidens; Trump to Host G7 at His Own Doral, Florida Resort; Trump Claims Mulvaney "Clarified" Quid Pro Quo Admission; Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) Is Interviewed About Impeachment Proceedings; Rep. Randy Weber (R-TX) Is Interviewed About President's Dealings With Ukraine. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired October 18, 2019 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Stephanie Grisham can say whatever she wants from her perch on "Fox & Friends."

But you know what? When she finally exits the stage, as all the President's people seem to do, whether they want to or not, let's see whether the President is in a tizzy or not when he delivers her review on the "Ridiculist." What will he say?

The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I have to tell you, as a student of Cooperology, it is hard to know from your sheer visage when you're in a tizzy and when you are not.

COOPER: Well I -- it's because I push my emotions deep down inside. So --

CUOMO: I like that. I have no emotions.

COOPER: Oh, even better.

CUOMO: But if I did, I'd push them down also.

COOPER: I long to be you.

CUOMO: Anderson, have a great weekend, my brother. Thank you for the good work.

COOPER: All right, bye.

CUOMO: I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.

Breaking news. New evidence of the depth of the efforts by this President to go after the Bidens, a CNN exclusive, and key players making the case, and trying to defend on the show tonight.

Where do you stand? Let's get after it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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CUOMO: All right, so here is the latest. The President's personal lawyer pushed the State Department and the White House to get a visa for the ousted Ukrainian Prosecutor, who promised dirt on the Bidens.

This comes in a CNN exclusive, from four sources, citing the testimony of Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, George Kent, this week, to Congress. They tell us that, in January 2019, Rudy Giuliani tried to secure a U.S. visa for Ukrainian Viktor Shokin.

You've heard that name a lot now. He was forced to resign in 2016, with the help of the United States, for failing to root out corruption.

Now, as if the plot were not already painfully clear, President Trump's Acting Chief of Staff admitted to a quid pro quo, and then POTUS and company had him deny it.

So, we know what happened. The question is what does it mean? Where do things stand? Let's ask a possible future juror, and top Democrat, Senate Judiciary Member, Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut.

Always good to see you, senior -- Senator.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Good to see you.

CUOMO: Thank you for joining us, especially on a Friday night.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

CUOMO: So, we know what happened. It is inarguably wrong for a number of reasons.

You can argue that it is abuse of power. But do you believe that you have reached a point with all that you have seen, to this point, that this is worthy of articles of impeachment and removal?

BLUMENTHAL: It is unquestionably worthy of moving forward with impeachment proceedings, as the House is doing. It is unquestionably an abuse of power by the president of the United States, a betrayal of his oath of office.

Let's remember, the commander in chief on that July 25th phone call is pressuring, indeed extorting a foreign leader to interfere in our elections, to try to sway our democratic process, and compromise our democracy.

For the commander in chief to undertake that role, and then to engage his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and the Shokin efforts, and other efforts abroad, and as well as other members of his Administration, is absolutely an abuse of power. CUOMO: So, a reasonable Republican is sitting next to you in the Senate. And they say, "Senator -- Senator, I hear you. It was bad. He shouldn't have done it. It's wrong. And I don't like that he -- they denied it. And I don't like a lot of things about it.

But to nullify an election, the Founding Fathers wanted this to be such an overwhelming and flagrant wrong that two out of three of us saw it the same way. And I don't think it's worth nullifying an election with an election right around the corner.

It was bad. But, you know, Ukraine's OK. We didn't compromise their efforts versus Russia. In fact, we gave them arms that we haven't even given them in the last administration. And they got the aid. And we've exposed this for what it is. That's enough for me.

What do you say?

BLUMENTHAL: I say it's not nullifying an election. It's removing from power someone who has abused that power, in fact, violated the Constitution. That's the reason that the Founders had the impeachment process because they wanted to protect our Republic.

Remember, Benjamin Franklin -- Franklin's admonition. It's a democracy or republic if you can keep it. And the only way for us to discharge our obligation, as senators, is to protect our democracy against that kind of abuse of power.

And again, it's the president's own words, Chris, in that July 25th conversation, "Do us a favor." He wasn't talking about a quid pro quo to benefit the United States of America. It was to benefit him personally, his political position.

And what we're seeing more and more, of course, is that he wants favors from foreign leaders, to benefit his personal financial situation.

CUOMO: So, now we're at the end of the week. That's the state of play with the President. With his attorney, what do you think the likelihood is that Rudy Giuliani gets indicted?

BLUMENTHAL: Well there is mounting evidence. And I'm obviously not in the prosecutor line of work, which I was once.

CUOMO: But you did these cases.

BLUMENTHAL: I did these kinds of cases, not exactly prosecuting a President's personal lawyer.

[21:05:00]

But what we're seeing here is potential conspiracy, to solicit, and pressure a foreign leader, to provide political campaign help, that's a violation of federal law, lying to the federal government, tax or bank fraud violations.

CUOMO: You worried about the money coming in and out from these two who were indicted and the other names that are getting listed?

BLUMENTHAL: Exactly right. The associates, they are Giuliani associates who have been indicted and charged, certainly could be involved in a conspiracy, involving Giuliani and others in the Trump Administration.

Remember, in Watergate, Nixon was pardoned. But the president's men went to jail. And my guess is that we're going to be seeing cracks in that wall, in so far impenetrable wall.

CUOMO: What would you do, if the president came out tomorrow, and said, you know, I don't like the way this is going.

I pardon Rudy Giuliani right now for anything that he did in connection to what I did in Ukraine, anything to do with Turkey, even the bird, even around Thanksgiving. You cannot go after Rudy Giuliani for anything.

There's a chance that could happen.

BLUMENTHAL: It would spark an uproar, a -- an outrage. And I believe, talking about sitting next to a reasonable Republican that my colleagues on the Republican side, at some point, are going to have to look to history.

They will be haunted by this era, if they feel -- if they fail to do the right thing. And clearly, the right thing would be to stop a pardon. President has very broad power. But Congress has some power to override it.

And certainly, the President has no power to pardon for a state crime --

CUOMO: Right.

BLUMENTHAL: -- which then there could be a prosecution to do.

And finally, I would say that kind of pardon itself might be an impeachable offense, and my Republican colleagues are going to have to regard this time in history as one that will follow them throughout their lives and through history beyond it.

CUOMO: You know one simple problem I haven't heard discussed yet is that Mr. Giuliani says that he represents the President pro bono.

If that's true, and we have no reason to believe that it isn't, I haven't seen any proof otherwise, is a president or any official allowed to accept that kind of dollar value in pro bono service work from an attorney?

And I've been looking through the law. And you guys have all these rules in Congress about it having to be for a committee and a specific purpose and a specific amount.

Unless you accept the argument that Mr. Giuliani's legal advice is worth zero, this is hundreds of thousands of things wouldn't of -- of value. Wouldn't it have -- had to have been recorded?

BLUMENTHAL: Well some might question whether Rudy Giuliani's legal advice, at this point, is worth what others might regard. But the point is that those services, if they are a gift, or if they are an exchange for something, could well be a violation of law.

CUOMO: You want to add using Doral for the G7 to your emoluments suit. The President's proxy, his acting chief of staff says, he's not going to make any money off it. It is the best place for it, so there is no issue.

BLUMENTHAL: Our emoluments lawsuit says that the President repeatedly and consistently, throughout his term of office, has accepted payments, and benefits, from foreign governments, in violation of the premier anti-corruption clause in the United States Constitution.

The reason for that clause, as you know, is that one of the Founding fears -- Father's greatest fears was in fact that the President or some other member of the Executive Branch would be beholden, would take favors from a foreign government, and here is a classic textbook example of the violation of that emoluments clause.

So, we are definitely going to add it in our brief to be submitted this coming week. But even if there's no profit, there's clearly a payment or benefit, because at that time of year, as you heard earlier, during Anderson Cooper's show, the Doral probably is going to be largely deserted.

The profits or financial situation of that hotel have declined sharply, as the Washington Post recently reported, by 70 percent. And even if there is no payment, and there will be payment, there is benefit in terms of the promotion of the property, and that is of inestimable value.

Think of the -- the impact of having that brand shown all over the world, literally, all over the world, and, in effect, a -- an advertisement, unpaid for by any Trump entity, but of tremendous benefit to the Trump Organization, which this President still owns. He's never divested a single cent worth of that property.

CUOMO: Some heady efforts to come. Senator Blumenthal, thank you so much for joining us.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure to have you on the show.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Have a good weekend, Sir.

BLUMENTHAL: You too. Thank you.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

[21:10:00] All right, when not crying there was no quid pro quo, Trump defenders make a couple of arguments to defend the situation. And I argue they defy the facts, so let's do this.

Let's lie out -- lay out -- that was not a Freudian slip. Let's lay out what they say and what the facts tell us right after this.

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: All right, so Trump defenders keep saying two things. It was about corruption, not the Bidens. And this is really just about one phone call. We can prove both of those false.

The CNN exclusive, Giuliani was pushing the White House to get a visa for the former Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the U.S. helped get ousted. Why? Because he was offering dirt on Biden.

[21:15:00]

Now, they didn't give him the visa. But this is proof that his shadow diplomacy, Mr. Giuliani's, was unwanted in the State Department, and that this President was not only interested in the DNC and, as his Chief of Staff admitted, a quid pro quo, for dirt on the DNC, is also wrong, by the way, but most importantly, we can show what we know.

There's a tape, a call, transcript, texts, and testimony, wasn't just about corruption. It was about the Bidens and the DNC. And it wasn't just one call.

Rudy Giuliani -- Giuliani admitted on this show he wanted the Bidens. He told The New York Times that he was after dirt on Biden. Someone saying, somebody could say it's improper. Not enough people are saying it's improper, frankly.

The President himself later said this right to you.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens.

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CUOMO: He -- you know, it came out of his mouth, more than once. In the phone call with his counterpart, it's the American President who brings up Biden.

The text messages show Trump's guys, Taylor, Sondland, Volker, they all thought that Burisma, where Biden was on the Board was as much or more in the mix as any 2016 fancy.

Then, there's the congressional testimony, where Trump's own E.U. Ambassador, Sondland, his friend, a major donor, says the deliverable, mentioned in the texts, Trump and Giuliani were looking for including something they could use against Biden.

So, point one is done.

Now, this idea about it just being about one phone call, the aid money was held up for longer than anybody seems able to explain, months before the call, and over a month after, way longer than allowable without going back to Congress to explain.

So, it wasn't just about the call. It's about what happened before and after. A face-to-face POTUS visit with the Ukrainians was dangled for months to get what they wanted.

So many were involved. U.S. diplomats personally involved in drafting a statement to make sure it did as much as possible to benefit one person, Donald J. Trump.

The VP, the Energy Secretary, White House staff, his lawyer, all to make this happen, a group effort, many acts, over a long time, many months, not one call.

When you follow the facts, it is clear, hurting Biden central to a sustained enterprise that spent untold taxpayer dollars, and reached the highest levels of our government.

The only remaining question is whether or not what we know happened is worthy of removing a President from office. Now, that is a matter for Congress. But seeing what was done here, that's just a matter of common sense.

Now, despite all the evidence, people are really digging in that this was not wrong, it's not bad. OK. So, let's bring in Congressman Randy Weber, Republican, Texas, to make the case. Let's get after it.

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[21:20:00]

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CUOMO: All right, you can add Republican John Kasich to the list of those calling for President Trump's impeachment. Now, impeachment, removal, I still do not see that as an easy call. But condemning what the President did here should be obvious, at this point.

Look at all this stuff the whistleblower said that has been confirmed. I show you this because, you know, they say the whistleblower is all hearsay. Well it's just not true.

Trump pressured Ukraine. We get that from Trump's public -- public comments. We get it from the White House transcript of the call. Trump's asking about the Bidens.

We get it from Trump's public comments. We get it from that call. We get it from Rudy Giuliani on this show, talking to The New York Times. Volker, Sondland, reportedly giving advice to Ukrainians on how to navigate Trump's demands.

Volker admitted that in his texts, let alone in his testimony. Locking down records of the call, the White House acknowledged it. OMB's stating that Trump's order to freeze U.S. aid. Mulvaney says we do that all the time.

Trump publicly confirmed that this happened, said it was about corruption, and then spending. You know, there's a whole list of them.

So, why do I bring this up? Whether or not to impeach, that is an open question, it's a tough argument. But that this was wrong, I don't see it the same way.

Let's see how Congressman Randy Weber of Texas sees it.

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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

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CUOMO: Welcome to the show. It's good to have you on PRIME TIME.

REP. RANDY WEBER (R-TX): Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: So Congressman, I know you don't like the process, and I'm happy to talk to you about that what you think is at play here. But in terms of just looking at what we know about the situation, to this point, can you really say that this president did nothing wrong in his dealings with Ukraine?

WEBER: Chris, have you read the transcript?

CUOMO: Yes.

WEBER: You recognize that in that transcript that President Zelensky says to President Trump, he did a great job of draining the swamp over here, and then he could use President Trump's help, he could learn from the President. Did you read that?

CUOMO: Yes.

WEBER: So, here is the President of Ukraine who has said to our great president, look, you've done a great job of draining your swamp. We've got corruption over here. I could use some help. And I could learn from you.

And the President says, yes, there are a couple of examples. And he uses the CrowdStrike, which was through the Russian collusion --

CUOMO: I know the --

WEBER: -- timing where there was actually no Russian.

CUOMO: -- conspiracy theory.

[21:25:00]

WEBER: Well and so CrowdStrike, a wealthy Ukrainian, I'm told, owns part of that company. They got to look at the DNC's server, as you mentioned earlier. The FBI, they never would let the FBI look at it, by the way.

CUOMO: No, that's not how it happened.

WEBER: And the president's simply saying--

CUOMO: The -- they were brought in as a third-party --

WEBER: The president --

CUOMO: -- analyst. The FBI accepted that, as they have in many other cases. And the National Security adviser for the president, Mr. Bossert, said this conspiracy theory about CrowdStrike is nonsense.

WEBER: Well the fact of the matter is it was never gotten to the bottom of. And so, the President is saying to the new -- the President Zelensky of the Ukraine, you want to clean up your corruption, let me give you a couple of examples.

Here's one. Get to the bottom of what happened in that instance. Here's two. You've got a company that was, by all outward appearances, it had Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, a pay-for-play -- pay-for-play job, if you want to call it that.

And it's not the president's fault that Joe Biden's son was there. It's not the President's fault that it was a Ukrainian that was involved with CrowdStrike.

CUOMO: No, but it's the president choice, Congressman.

WEBER: He points out to -- he --

CUOMO: It's the president's choice to pick out --

WEBER: He points out --

CUOMO: -- two things that would benefit him politically in the next election.

WEBER: Chris?

CUOMO: And ask Ukraine to look at them in an exchange of help.

WEBER: Chris, he -- he's talking about -- the president of Ukraine is talking about cleaning up corruption in his country.

Our great president, who's been draining the swamp over here, is telling that President, you want to start with some corruption in your country? Well we know of at least a couple.

It's unfortunate that Hunter Biden was caught up in that. It's unfortunate that it was part of the Ukrainian company that owned CrowdStrike. The President points out --

CUOMO: So, you think it's -- but you're making it sound like this is a coincidence, Congressman. He picked what would help him politically. We both know this President doesn't --

WEBER: Look --

CUOMO: -- know anything about what Burisma is or what happened, except what Rudy Giuliani told him. They targeted things --

WEBER: Listen --

CUOMO: -- that he thought would help him politically. And that's OK. But you can't leverage --

WEBER: Chris?

CUOMO: -- foreign aid.

WEBER: Chris?

CUOMO: Yes, Sir.

WEBER: Presidents deal with other countries all the time. As Mick Mulvaney said, this President, who -- I've talked to him about aid for Harvey. I talked to him about the missiles that went into Syria. He makes calculated decisions.

CUOMO: Give me another example of a president --

WEBER: He says that the E.U. countries --

CUOMO: -- asking a country to do something to help them in an election in exchange for aid?

WEBER: Well, will tell you this, Chris. This president has been -- been doing exactly what he told America he would do, and that's what they elected him to do. He is very thoughtful. And there's -- the Democrats hate him because of that.

CUOMO: I don't know -- I don't know who hates him.

WEBER: They hate him. They've started going --

CUOMO: And I don't even like the word, Congressman. I'll tell you the truth. I don't believe in hate as a concept.

WEBER: You hate to hear that --

CUOMO: There's no question --

WEBER: You hate to hear that word, do you?

CUOMO: I -- I don't --

WEBER: You hate to hear that word. I got it.

CUOMO: I don't -- I don't like to hear it because I think that it shouldn't be part of our politics.

WEBER: Well --

CUOMO: That kind of animus.

WEBER: Chris? Chris?

CUOMO: And I get that you don't like the process.

WEBER: The -- the --

CUOMO: But all I'm saying is this, Congressman. This is all I'm saying. I get that you don't like the process. I get you don't think it's worthy of impeachment or removal. I get it.

But the idea that you don't think it was wrong for a President to talk to the Head of another country, and ask for dirt on two political opponent targets, and that that's OK --

WEBER: That's not -- that's not what he did, Chris.

CUOMO: How else do --

WEBER: That's not what he did, Chris.

CUOMO: -- you explain it?

WEBER: He made a -- he made a suggestion to the president of Ukraine who's asked for help in cleaning up corruption in his own country.

CUOMO: So you talk to him about Ukraine corruption, but you only --

WEBER: President said, here's a couple's, try cleaning --

CUOMO: -- talk about Americans? And then Volker, Taylor, Sondland, all tell stories about -- WEBER: Look, it's - hey --

CUOMO: -- believing that it was an inappropriate to ask, to have Ukraine help in an American election, so they all got it wrong?

WEBER: Chris, that was not about the election. Chris, that was about helping the Ukraine. It's not the president's fault that they were Democrats that Bidens were Democrats. Don't blame that on the President.

CUOMO: I'm not blaming down the president.

WEBER: Don't blame that fact that Hunter --

CUOMO: I'm blaming what he did on the President.

WEBER: Don't blame that on the President the fact -- the fact that Hunter Biden was apparently, what seemingly most people think, it was a pay-to-play situation, no, but --

CUOMO: Most people think? It was looked at by Ukraine --

WEBER: -- you try to make that like it's Donald Trump's fault.

CUOMO: -- and here in the United States. You guys were in power at this time, and you were investigating all kinds of nonsense, and you didn't look at this. But now, it's a no-brainer.

WEBER: I'm -- listen, this president has been doing what he set out to do. The Democrats have been set out to impeach him from day one. They've had an ROI. Accountants know what ROI means, return on investment.

For the Democrats, this meant resist, obstruct, impeach.

CUOMO: Oh please! You mean like Mitch McConnell said during the --

WEBER: Al Green found an impeachment --

CUOMO: -- Obama administration? I know there's ugly politics on both sides. But you can only deal with the facts in front of you.

WEBER: Chris, do you --

CUOMO: And the facts in front of you --

WEBER: Do you want to hear what --

CUOMO: -- are what he did. And you know what he did was wrong. You know it doesn't make any sense.

WEBER: No. That's -- that is absolutely --

CUOMO: And you know if a Democrat did it, you'd be all over them.

WEBER: -- not the case. That is absolutely not the case. The Democrats have been out to impeach him. And Al Green filed an

impeachment resolution before the Mueller report was in, has been voted on three times, even the Democrats wouldn't vote for in the floor of the House.

CUOMO: So vote against impeachment. But why do you have to say that this --

WEBER: That --

CUOMO: -- isn't wrong? It impugns your own integrity to ignore something like this, when in the past, you've stood against much less. During Benghazi, what bothered you --

WEBER: Let me --

[21:30:00]

CUOMO: -- about that situation were issues that didn't rise to this level. What you went after Obama about for not dealing with subpoenas, and congressional process --

WEBER: Listen --

CUOMO: -- was much less than this president.

WEBER: There's no way this compares the -- you look at the transcript. You can try to stretch the truth and make it say what you think it ought to say. But this President, we ought to be working on infrastructure for this country, on healthcare, on trade.

Why won't they put USMCA up on the floor? There's things we ought to be doing. If you look at Nancy Pelosi in the House, they ought to be focused on the American people's business and not to try --

CUOMO: Congressman, we just came out of an administration where the head of the Senate minority said --

WEBER: -- not - not --

CUOMO: -- I am here to stop Obama as a one-term President. And we had a Republican majority in the House that did nothing but obstruct, try to kill his healthcare plan, and investigate. And now, you're in high dudgeon.

WEBER: They didn't --

CUOMO: When you're actually faced with facts of a president --

WEBER: Chris, did they --

CUOMO: -- abusing his power.

WEBER: Chris, did they try to impeach Obama? They didn't. Of course, we didn't do that. The Democrats --

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CUOMO: You didn't have any facts like this.

WEBER: -- any excuse they could.

CUOMO: If you had him asking a --

WEBER: Chris, I --

CUOMO: -- foreign power to help him out with his next opponent, and in -- in an exchange for aid--

WEBER: That's not --

CUOMO: -- you would have been --

WEBER: That's - Chris --

CUOMO: -- all over it.

WEBER: Chris, you're going to have to wake up to the fact that that's not what he did. He offered to help President Zelensky with corruption in his own country.

CUOMO: And the corruption that he wanted to help him with --

WEBER: It's unfortunate that the Bidens were --

CUOMO: -- was the DNC and the Bidens.

WEBER: It's -- it's -- hey, look --

CUOMO: That's the big problem of corruption --

WEBER: It's un -- it's un --

CUOMO: -- in Ukraine?

WEBER: Chris, it's unfortunate that the Bidens got caught in it, yes, I mean, that's unfortunate.

CUOMO: So, you're bothered by the Bidens. Let me ask you something.

WEBER: They were there. I mean --

CUOMO: Let me ask you, just a question.

WEBER: It -- yes, Sir.

CUOMO: Are you bothered by Ivanka Trump working for the American people and negotiating intellectual property with China at the same time she's visiting on a state visit? Does that bother you?

WEBER: Does she get -- does she get paid?

CUOMO: Does that look like a little bit inappropriate? WEBER: Does she -- Chris, this whole family has sacrificed their fortunes, their income, put them on hold, to go to work for the American people. And most --

CUOMO: They're making money hand over fist. Look at the number. They made like --

WEBER: Most --

CUOMO: -- 80 something million dollars last year in office.

WEBER: Most - most --

CUOMO: They got finance deals for their buildings. They got intellectual property from China --

WEBER: They don't have --

CUOMO: -- while they're working for the government.

WEBER: Chris, they --

CUOMO: Congressman --

WEBER: They don't have to stop being in business because he doesn't take a salary. This president knows what business is all about.

CUOMO: You do have to stop doing your private business --

WEBER: He's thoughtful. He wants --

CUOMO: -- when you work for the public sector. You're upset --

WEBER: He -- he--

CUOMO: -- that Biden leveraged his dad who is the VP, as a private citizen. But you're not upset about Ivanka Trump leveraging her position in the United States government with China. That doesn't bother you? Do you see why people --

WEBER: Listen --

CUOMO: -- might shake their head in disgust?

WEBER: This -- this family has put their lives on hold, their fortunes on hold, for temporary time, to do what's right by the American people. The economy is growing.

CUOMO: They're putting it on hold?

WEBER: You're -- you're watching --

CUOMO: That's why the G7 is at Doral?

WEBER: We're watching the whole country turn around.

CUOMO: Yes, I'd skip that too if I were you.

WEBER: The economy's the best. Unemployment's at the lowest.

CUOMO: The economy can be good. And you can act with --

WEBER: You can go write down the list.

CUOMO: -- integrity too, Congressman. That's what I'm saying. It's not either/or. It's both.

WEBER: That's -- you're --

CUOMO: I love a great economy.

WEBER: Chris, you're --

CUOMO: I love integrity in office.

WEBER: Hey, let me tell you something. He's got integrity with other countries. That's the reason President --

CUOMO: Really?

WEBER: -- Zelensky asked him to help clean up that corruption. He gives him two examples.

CUOMO: He didn't ask him to. First of all --

WEBER: It's unfortunate --

CUOMO: Hold on. Zelensky didn't ask him for anything --

WEBER: It's -- it's -- read the --

CUOMO: -- other than a visit, some Javelins, and aid. He was not asking him, Donald Trump, as some kind of corrupt-fixer. He's ignored the corruption in his own Administration, his own family, and in his own actions. He won't even show his taxes. The idea that someone's going to seek him out --

WEBER: Chris?

CUOMO: -- as Corruption Counsel is a little bit of a stretch.

WEBER: Demo -- the Democrats have been after him since absolute day one. Al Green said that they had to impeach him because they're afraid he might get re-elected.

CUOMO: What does that have to do with the facts at hand, Congressman? I'm just asking you, you can acknowledge that this is --

WEBER: What -- what does that have to do?

CUOMO: -- wrong.

WEBER: What it means -- CUOMO: But not think it's impeachable.

WEBER: Chris, what it means, you're asking me a question, I'm going to answer it.

CUOMO: Please.

WEBER: What it means is that they had an impeachment charge ready, searching and searching, and hoping they could hang their hat on something. Russian collusion, Mueller investigation didn't get it. Now, they've come out --

CUOMO: All right.

WEBER: -- with this transcript of this phone call that they're assuming things that aren't there. And I've read it.

CUOMO: It's not about the transcript.

WEBER: I've been backwards and forwards through it.

CUOMO: It's the transcript. It's the texts. It's the testimony. It's the interviews. It's what he said on camera. I mean there's a lot there, Congressman. I understand your argument. I appreciate you making it. I just hope you can live with it.

Congressman Randy Weber, thank you very much for being on the show. You're always welcome.

WEBER: Thank you.

CUOMO: Be well. Have a good weekend.

All right, there's some Republicans though, unlike Congressman Weber, who have had enough, like Anthony Scaramucci. Now, he's got his ear to the ground. He's still wired into the party, even though he's not wired into Trump anymore.

What does he know about the state of play in that party, and about these men who were arrested as associates of Rudy Giuliani? We got a picture of Scaramucci with these guys. How deep into the party did they get?

Anthony is here. Let's talk to him, next.

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CUOMO: Scrutiny over Mr. Giuliani's activities in Ukraine is growing by the day. Despite the White House downplaying Mr. Mulvaney's now "clarified" quid pro quo remarks, the damage is done.

When will it be enough for Republicans to start asking their own questions or at least to acknowledge what is obvious? Let's bring in Anthony Scaramucci.

You know, Anthony, first of all, God bless your father. I hope he's doing well. I know you went home to visit him. And yet, you know, you know I'm thinking of the whole family.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, FOUNDER & PARTNER, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL, AUTHOR: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Appreciate it. So, look, you hear -- you--

SCARAMUCCI: I appreciate that. And I appreciate your help well with me. Thank you.

CUOMO: Oh, no, of course, of course, that's about us.

So, look, we -- we talk about all the time, what's worthy of impeachment, what's worthy of removal, open questions to me, even now.

But what he did, you heard that Texas Congressman. He's welcome on the show. I want him to make the case. I'll treat him with respect. But Ukraine wanted Donald Trump to help with corruption because he's done so well with the swamp here? He believes it?

I mean how much of your party will buy into that?

SCARAMUCCI: Well I also -- you have to listen now. I have sympathy for the argument because there was a big rally in Texas. Congressman wants to stay in the Congress. He's very worried about the president's ability to intimidate and bully people.

If he comes on your show, and he says, hey look, this stuff really doesn't look right. I went to law school. I understand the laws. I read the Constitution. He broke and disavowed the Constitution, he's going to get slammed by the President, and that's going to decrease his ability to get re-elected.

[21:40:00]

And so, I get what's going on Chris. I've been spending time traveling in the swing states, was in Pennsylvania, this past week, I was in Michigan, East Lansing, yesterday, and then I was in Columbus, Ohio today.

I met with over a 1,000 people in those places. And I -- you know, I'm meeting with wealthy donors, and I'm waiting -- meeting with Union members --

CUOMO: What are they saying?

SCARAMUCCI: -- and political leaders.

And they are saying the same thing that normal Americans are saying, outside of the Trump bubble, that there's something severely wrong with the President, and the President has actually broken the law.

And now, the big question is, are we going to allow lawless activity to happen at the Presidential level? And I know that -- I know the President's personality very well.

He's big-footing the media with Doral. That is a distraction. That is a red herring. Let me throw that out there. We'll spend more time on Doral than we will the quid pro quo and all of the illicit activity that's going on.

The Hunter Biden thing is don't focus on what's going on with me or people around me. Focus on Hunter Biden.

And so, I understand the methodology of what he's doing, and I'm puzzled by it because I would have thought, by this point, we would have broken into people, like the Texas congressman that you just had on.

CUOMO: I mean he just made an argument, Anthony. He just said --

SCARAMUCCI: To hear with him say OK, you know what, I don't --

CUOMO: -- when you get into public service --

SCARAMUCCI: -- I don't really need the job, you know.

CUOMO: -- you're not supposed to put your life on hold, I mean that's absurd. That's exactly what you do when you go into public life. Who knows better than you with your company? When you go into public service --

SCARAMUCCI: Well that's --

CUOMO: -- you got to stop making money on the outside.

SCARAMUCCI: Well that's the abnormalcy and the malignancy of what the President is doing, and it's a real shame, you know. He could -- he could -- he could have dropped all this stuff and, you know, it would have been a lot better.

But listen, we're here now, and that's the malignancy of what he's doing. And so, so for me, you know, it's turning, OK? And so, and I'm spending time on this, and energy.

I'm going to announce the PAC, beginning of November. You know, we'll go up on the air with some ads. I think you'll be very happy -- not happy -- not you personally. But I think people who want to see this thing go down in the right

way, and the fair way, for America, will be very happy with the team of people that I've put together and the partners that I brought into the PAC.

But we have to stop this, OK? And we have to help the Republican Party rebuild and heal itself from this. I understand what happened. And I understand the bullying. I -- I understand.

Hey Chris, you've never felt more alive than when the President's calling you an unstable nutjob on Twitter, you know. So, what are you going to do? I -- I understand the bullying. I understand the fear for these guys.

CUOMO: No, I'm -- I'm with you.

SCARAMUCCI: A lot of these guys don't have a lot of money so--

CUOMO: What I don't understand is just the--

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, of course.

CUOMO: --collective unconscious here, Anthony, like even these two guys, Fruman and Parnas. I know one of them was connected to Trump's father back in the day.

But these guys are shady. And it just makes me wonder, you know, with their whispers about wires -- why's Rudy around these guys, why is he using guys like this, these guys are shady.

I mean it's bad enough they made the mistake with Manafort. But was anybody like trying to say to him "Watch out for these guys," you know?

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, yes, actually. And so, I didn't know these guys. You showed a picture of me.

CUOMO: I haven't showed it yet.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: --Israel.

CUOMO: But they -- they're putting it around the internet to try to smear you.

SCARAMUCCI: Oh!

CUOMO: That you -- you were in Israel touching the--

SCARAMUCCI: Oh, yes, yes, no problem.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: Totally fine.

CUOMO: --Wailing Wall with these guys.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, no, it was actually -- I was inside the tomb of Abraham and his wife. And we were touching the--

CUOMO: Oh, the tomb, right, OK.

SCARAMUCCI: --holy monument.

He was -- yes, he was -- he was standing next to me. It's totally fine. There were 20 people on the trip with me. Governor Huckabee was on the trip as well. I obviously didn't control the guest list or anything like that. And -- but--

CUOMO: But who -- how'd they get in?

SCARAMUCCI: --you know, when I got back -- well that's the question. I don't know. We'd have to ask the guys that organized the trip.

But you have to understand, people very close to Rudy. And so, one thing that Lev, he was way more talkative than Igor, he was name- dropping Rudy like a machine-gunner, you know, that was sort of unfair to the Mayor.

But there were people inside the Mayor's circle, not me, because I didn't know these people, that told him to knock it off with these people. And I don't know why the Mayor decided not to do that. That's up to the Mayor.

You know, you know I love the Mayor, you love the Mayor. I pray for the Mayor every single day. I don't -- I don't -- I -- I want to remember him as the guy that helped save New York and heal New York after 9/11.

I -- I don't like what's going on now. And I hope he gets out of this OK. But -- but here's the thing.

They did infiltrate the Republican Party. And it should also -- you should ask people a question. How much money does it actually take to buy elements of influence if you are an outsider? And so -- and the answer is "It's not a lot," Chris.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what.

SCARAMUCCI: And that should scare everybody.

CUOMO: But it's also weird that the money keeps coming.

SCARAMUCCI: That's -- it -- it should really scare everybody.

CUOMO: Russia keeps popping up in all these things, even like giving Erdogan this pass, you know, who does he meet with last week? Putin. And then, he gets on the phone with Trump, and he gets green light.

[21:45:00]

These guys have all this money flowing through their accounts from Russia, almost in similar amounts of what they give Rudy, you know, it just it looks so terrible.

The President says, "I don't know them." One of them used to work for his dad. They're all -- they're in pictures with him, you know.

SCARAMUCCI: Well I mean there's a lot of -- there's a lot of investigative reporters that are working on the fact that the President knows them way more than he's saying that he knows them. And so, you know, and that will come out as well, and that's more slime.

And then, the President will come up with another idea to big-foot the media away from that. Maybe he'll announce a -- another Summit somewhere at Trump Tower or something like that.

But -- but the -- the truth of the matter is it is cracking. Governor Kasich, thank God, a great American, speaking out. Admiral McRaven, a Republican from Texas, speaking out. There's a lot of people that are speaking out now.

And the field of bravery, you know, when I spoke out in August, and said, "This is absolutely crazy, and we're in a Trump novelle (ph) meltdown," I was a lone person.

CUOMO: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: And somebody told me, "What is it like a Kamikaze raid?" But it isn't now. There's a full battalion of people now. And I predict this will end well for the United States, but not well for the President.

CUOMO: Well we'll see. This is some ugly stuff.

Anthony Scaramucci, thank you for joining me on a Friday night. The best to your father and your family.

SCARAMUCCI: Thank you. Thank you. Have a great weekend, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, be well, Anthony.

All right, so look, where are we right now? I have an argument to make to you.

And I know. I'm looking at my social media feed. "What do you mean he shouldn't be removed?" Look, that's a political judgment. They have to make the case. And that's their opinion. It's not a legal process.

But what is objective is what we see in front of us that I will argue to you too many Republicans are choosing to ignore. So, let me lay it out for you. You decide. Next.

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CUOMO: All right, look, so here's my argument.

I believe that impeachment is debatable, by definition, all right? What this President did, and why he did it, cannot be debated in good faith. Here's why.

The transcript, President Zelensky, "We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. Specifically, we're almost ready to buy more Javelins," these missiles, "from the United States for defense purposes." The President, "I would like you to do us a favor though."

The favor, dirt on Biden and the DNC. That's not cleaning up Ukraine corruption. That's taking out an opponent. And it is wrong to ask a foreign power to do that. Period!

And there is so much corroboration of the wrongdoing. Look, they all parrot the same talking points they were given, and they all force -- fall short.

Volker's texts, "Heard from the White House. Assuming President Z convinces Trump he will investigate, get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we'll nail down date for visit to Washington." That was the give and the get.

Or this one, Bill Taylor, "Are we now saying that security assistance and White House meeting are conditioned on investigations?" Gordon Sondland, "Call me."

And what about the testimony, from the string of diplomats, on Capitol Hill, expressing their concerns that Giuliani was effectively a shadow Secretary of State with shady connections to shady people?

His purpose, the DNC, and the Bidens. And, in case, that isn't enough, you have this.

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MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: Did he also mention to me in past that the -- the - the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely! No question about that. But that's it. And that's why we held up the money.

And I have news for everybody. Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.

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CUOMO: The Acting Chief of Staff "Walked it back" they say. No, he didn't. Be straight.

He got told by Trump and others to go out, lie, deny, and cry, "The media made me do it." In other words, "Learn from the Master."

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TRUMP: And there was never any quid pro quo.

There is no pro quo.

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CUOMO: Saying it a lot doesn't make it true. He is the master of mendacity.

He held up the money over corruption concerns? Please! You have never heard this president address corruption by anyone around him, his cabinet, his Campaign Manager, other key advisers, his kids, or himself.

And it wasn't just one call. This was months of multiple players, diplomats, the VP, the Cabinet Secretary, the White House, and his lawyer.

The paper in Ukraine, the Kyiv Post, says, "Look at this shady thing and all the people who made it happen." And the picture of the U. S. President is right on the cover.

Come on! When is it going to be enough for Republicans to call it out as wrong? I'm not saying that you have to impeach or remove.

They sure had the guts to call things flagrant when it was Benghazi, and in '98, when they started an investigation into President Clinton about real estate transactions, and they ended up with this infamous lie.

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BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.

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CUOMO: That was enough. They didn't need a crime. They said it again, and again, "It's about ethics. It's about setting a standard. It's about cleansing the office, and sending a message to future presidents about what's acceptable."

But what it was really about was playing to advantage. And yes, the Democrats hated it then. And they're indulging in it now. And the two sides swapped arguments, and it's ugly, and obvious.

But the Democrats have the facts on their side in this one, and that puts the GOP in the position of having to pretend that the facts aren't there. With Mueller, the bar was "Show the collusion. Show working with a foreign agent to impact an election. It's so important." I warned then that I didn't see that stuff in the Mueller investigation. I told people to manage your expectations or set yourself up for disappointment.

But here, the requirements are met big time, collusion all over the place, clear working with a foreign power to impact an election. It's clear, and they know it.

But the same mouths that saw things so clearly when attacking the Democrats, now, they say this.

[21:55:00]

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REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We stand behind the President, like the American people do. And that this investigation, as I just said earlier, is unfair and partisan, and the American people see it the way it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mulvaney's comments didn't open that door up to some Republican Members to be skeptical?

JORDAN: I don't see it at all.

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CUOMO: He doesn't see it at all because he's like this. That's why he won't come on the show anymore.

It is OK to say "I don't think it should be justified as removal." But to say "Nothing was wrong, no abuse," that makes you as bad as this President, and all the patsies who go along with him. You are abusing your power as well. That's my argument.

From our President's mouth to your ears, I got a BOLO for you. Be On the Look-Out for a massive foreign disinformation campaign, next.

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: All right, here's the BOLO, Be On the Look-Out, nice and quick. Our president is parroting falsehoods put out by our adversaries.

Turkish President claimed that Syrian Kurds were deliberately allowing ISIS prisoners and their families to escape.

Trump then tweeted the same on Monday, repeated it days later. No proof. Another BS claim from Trump, echoes Putin's sentiments. "Russia hates ISIS as much as we do."

Fact, 90 percent of Russian air strikes in Syria haven't targeted ISIS or terror groups. They've hammered anti-Assad rebels, helping him prop up his regime.

These are things to be on the look-out for. We'll be doing it. Stay with us.

Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts right now.

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