Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Violence In Syria Violates Ceasefire; Protests Break Out In Lebanon; Mulvaney Walks Back Quid Pro Quo; Riot Police Clash With Demonstrators In Barcelona; Johnson Scrambles For Support On Brexit Deal Ahead Of Vote; CNN Speaks To Duchess Of Cambridge; El Chapo's Son Escapes Gun Battle With Mexican Authorities; Hacker Has No Problem Getting Personal Information. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 18, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:18]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, ceasefire? More like crossfire. Even the U.S. president has just had to admit there's been some sniper and mortar fire inside Syria. And
people on the ground are saying it's a lot worse than that.
Also this, a (ph) city of fire and smoke this evening. We'll go live to our reporter on the ground as protests ravage the streets of Beirut.
And another city in crisis this hour. Protestors are clashing with riot police. We are live in Barcelona as well.
The ceasefire in Syria is very much on shaky ground right now after reports of some violence and deadly clashes. Video from northern Syria shows smoke
rising from buildings.
In a separate incident, the Syrian Democratic Forces, the SDF, are saying that artillery shelling from Turkish forces have killed five people and
wounded several civilians. They say the attack on the Ras al-Ain hospital left a catastrophic situation.
Turkey's president is denying all those allegations to reporters, he did that earlier. But just a short time ago, the American president, Donald
Trump, admitted that there were, in fact, some clashes. But he says the fighting has stopped now. Listen to what he had to say about the situation
just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was some sniper fire this morning. There was mortar fire this morning. That was eliminated
quickly, and they're back to the full pause.
We have ISIS totally under guard. Turkey is also guarding separately, they're watching over everything. So you have the Kurds, who we're dealing
with and are very happy about the way things are going, I must say, the Kurds. And you also have the Turks watching -- just secondarily watching,
so we have ISIS under control.
We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil that everybody was worried about. We have -- the
U.S. has control of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Just so many things here to fact-check and unpack. Joining me now is Nick Paton Walsh. He's in Erbil, Iraq. Sarah Westwood
is in Washington.
First of all, Nick, the president claims Turkey is back to full pause in Syria. What are you hearing from your sources inside northern Syria, about
whether or not this is true this hour?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At this point, it seems like the crackle of gunfire and the occasional sound of shelling
that began the day, has lessened. We've seen images that purport, according to the Syrian Kurdish doctors at the hospital where bodies were
brought to show the bodies of possibly four, maybe five dead individuals who the doctors say were killed by the town of Sari Kani or Ras al-Ain, the
images of which you just showed there.
We can't verify that that's exactly what happened, but the bodies do appear, sadly, to have been heavily injured or killed in just the hour that
preceded that. So, clearly, something did occur earlier on today.
I have to tell you, the fact that there have been clashes or issues over the past 24 hours, is no surprise because of the vastly chaotic way in
which this whole ceasefire was put together in the first place. It's been startling to see the disparity between what Turkey says it's about, which
is a huge 20-mile swathe of territory which they say the Syrian Kurds agreed to pull out of, all along the border in the next hundred hours from
now or so, versus what the Americans say, which is a small swathe of territory between Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ain, which they say the Turkish
already control.
So a huge disparity there. I don't know what Donald Trump was saying about America taking control of all the oil in the Middle East. It's
unclear what he meant, too, about the detainees being totally under control. There are still concerns about the vulnerability of detainee
facilities there.
And this ceasefire, really, I think is a pause, a mechanism to slow things down, perhaps before the key meeting in Sochi between President Erdogan of
Turkey and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
So this is going to be scatty and chaotic. There may be bids to grab land before that Sochi meeting --
GORANI: Yes.
PATON WALSH: -- but it certainly, I don't think, deserves the fanfare and self-congratulation we've heard coming out of Washington -- Hala.
GORANI: And, Sarah Westwood at the White House, maybe you can interpret this for us, when the president said, we've taken full control of the oil
in the Middle East -- his exact words -- the oil that everybody was worried about, the U.S. has control of that. What did he mean?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Hala, I wish I could explain that to you. We are still trying to decipher that on our end as
well. But it is reflective of rhetoric he's used in the past, describing taking the oil. He's talked about Iraq policy that way. Obviously, we are
still sifting through what it is he meant there.
[14:05:10]
Of course, the president, saying today -- claiming today that some of the sniper and mortar fire that you mentioned, Hala, has been totally
eliminated, although that's not been the case from reports on the ground.
Keep in mind, this is only 120-hour ceasefire that Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced yesterday. And yet, the
administration was saying that it would be a slow process, trying to slow down the violence, tamp down on the violence to reach that ceasefire. But
with such a short period of time, it's pretty crucial that the violence stop in order for the ceasefire to be real.
TEXT: What is in the Ceasefire Agreement: Turkey to pause invasion for 120 hours (five days); No additional U.S. sanctions imposed on Turkey; Will
end current sanctions if ceasefire holds; Requires Kurds to turn over heavy weapons and dismantle fortification
WESTWOOD: President Trump, saying at his rally yesterday, comparing the situation to two children fighting on the playground. He said sometimes
you just need to let the children fight, and then pull them apart. Obviously, a gross oversimplification of the situation.
But the administration is portraying this as a done deal, that the situation is resolved, that it's a victory. Of course, these next four
days, now, will be crucial to see what occurs and this deal gave Turkey all of its military objectives at the expense of our former allies, the Kurds.
So a lot of critics, not entirely satisfied with this deal. Especially, Hala, because it involves the administration lifting all of the sanctions
that they had put on Turkey, just Monday.
GORANI: All right. Sarah Westwood at the White House and Nick Paton Walsh in Erbil, thanks to both of you. We're going to leave it here for now.
We'll revisit this story a little bit later this hour.
And the reason I want to leave it and go straight to Beirut is because we're seeing some very dramatic footage coming to us from the Lebanese
capital, the biggest protests in years are taking place there. I understand these are live images from Beirut. Take a look at what we're
seeing form that city right now.
Well, you could see some object or debris on the road there, on fire. And people were dispersed from Riad Al Solh Square earlier, with tear gas fired
by riot police. But we understand from our reporter, Ben Wedeman, that they've made their way back. Take a look at some of the images that Ben
shot, just minutes ago.
The prime minister is now giving lawmakers 72 hours to find a solution to the economic crisis. That's a tall order because we're talking about,
here, an economic crisis that has been unfolding in slow motion and now precipitously, for many years.
A new tax hike on WhatsApp calls (ph) sparked the demonstrations earlier this week. That's now been scrapped. But angry protestors say that's not
enough because the problems are -- run much deeper.
Ben Wedeman reports, and then we'll speak to Ben live.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What they're chanting is, the people want the downfall of the regime. That is the chant we heard
during the Egyptian revolution, during the Tunisian revolution.
What sparked these protests? And there have been sporadic protests in Lebanon over the last few months. What sparked these protests, which have
been intense since last night was the government's decision to impose a 20- cent tax on WhatsApp calls. And that seems to be -- that have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Enough is enough. This is the first time I come down to the streets, because enough is enough. I don't want to leave, I want to
stay here. I want a future for my kids, here. And this is why we are here today.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: There's one percent of this population, ruling the 99 of us. They've stolen everything we've got.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Earlier this year, the government declared an economic state of emergency. Lebanon is severely indebted. The economy is
at a standstill. The government rescinded the proposed WhatsApp tax within hours, but that may have been too little, too late.
Throughout the night, throughout the country, the protests grew in size and intensity, leading to sporadic clashes with security forces.
Since the end of the Lebanese civil war, the country has been ruled by a variety of sectarian leaders, long accused of corruption and incompetence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want a new elections, a new parliament. We want these thieves out.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): There are only Lebanese flags at these protests in front of government headquarters. This often-divided country is coming
together to demand change, and change, now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Ben Wedeman joins me now, live. He's in Beirut. What's going on right now? Earlier, you were reporting that police fired tear gas and
protestors dispersed. Are they back?
[14:10:08]
WEDEMAN: Let's take a look out the window. They -- protestors have set fire to various objects. I think earlier, a car and a motorcycle. Now,
the police have pushed them back a bit, where those fires are. And they continue to shoot tear gas in their direction.
Earlier, we saw them shoot dozens of volleys of tear gas, driving them back. But the crowd moved back, but is not dispersing at all. It appears
that this may be like last night, where there were protests all night long.
In fact, if we move the camera, look a little to the right, you can see a variety of fires that have been set. Some of those are trees, some of it's
construction material. And this is just one part of Beirut. There are protests in other parts of the country, of the city as well as in the north
and the south.
What's interesting about these protests is, there's not a party affiliation to them. This seems to be many angry ordinary struggling Lebanese
citizens, who have simply had more than they're willing to put up with. And therefore, are continuing with this protest. As I said, they went all
night and I think there's a very high probability, Hala, that they will go on all night tonight as well.
GORANI: And people are fed up because of years of corruption, of mismanagement of the economy. I mean, the Lebanese economy is on the verge
of complete collapse. And people want their politicians to be held accountable.
WEDEMAN: Yes. Basically, since the beginning of the Syrian war in 2011 -- and of course Lebanon is highly dependent on Syria for trade, for transit
of goods to the gulf. That whole area has been cut off to Lebanon, so the economy has suffered there.
More recently, the United States has started to impose sanctions sort of superficially on Hezbollah, but they're starting to have an impact upon
ordinary Lebanese. For instance, there was a bank the Jammal Trust Bank, which a year ago, USAID had a program of cooperation with.
A few months ago, the United States put the entire bank under sanctions. It employed hundreds of people and it had to close down. So speaking to
economists, they say it's a variety of things. It is corruption, which has gone on for years. It is mismanagement, incompetence, nepotism and
Lebanon's unfortunate geographic location, right next to Syria. So it's a combination of things.
And what we've seen in the last few weeks is a dollar crisis, a shortage of dollars --
GORANI: Yes.
WEDEMAN: -- which means that Lebanon, which imports so much, is having a problem buying things like petrol and flour for bread. So all of this is
just -- you (ph) know (ph), the country's now soaked with a sense of insecurity about the future of the economy. And therefore, the future of
their lives here -- Hala.
GORANI: And of course, they're hosting all these Syrian refugees as well. And a last question about what the prime minister's asking lawmakers to do
because it's a tall order to come up with some sort of solution that will satisfy protestors in 72 hours. How realistic is that?
WEDEMAN: It's a tough one because, of course, the government here is composed of most of the political parties, who spend a lot of their time
squabbling among themselves and not really agreeing on anything. So they have 72 hours, according to Prime Minister Saad Al-Hariri, to basically
fall into line behind his reform program.
But his reform program, they've proposed things in the past and had to rescind them, as they did with this so-called WhatsApp tax, which would
have put a 20-cent tax on people's phone calls.
And keep in mind that, you know, there are millions of Lebanese overseas, so this is how the people here keep in touch with their relatives.
GORANI: Yes.
WEDEMAN: A 20-cent tax on every phone call is very hard for them to deal with. And I just -- it's getting noisy back there again. You could see
there's a pall (ph) of a combination of smoke from the fires, as well as from the tear gas itself.
And now, I can see. But probably not -- that (ph) police are starting to move forward with this truck that fires water -- in this case, serves two
purposes, to put out the fires and also to disperse the protestors.
[14:15:12]
GORANI: Yes, we're continuing to watch these images, live with you there. I see that the police are using water cannon in this particular instance.
Earlier, they were using tear gas. These are live images, just telling our viewers if they are just joining us, coming to us from Beirut where our Ben
Wedeman is reporting that there's a lot of anger on the street.
What do demonstrators tell you? Are they willing to stick with this movement? Are they in it for the long haul?
WEDEMAN: Well, let's keep in mind, it really just began about 24 hours ago, with small scattered protests. Then, the Minister of Communications
announced that the tax would be rescinded. It was thought, perhaps that was enough, but it wasn't.
And we spoke to people who just said, you know, we're tired of this. We want all the money that's been looted from them -- that's the term they use
-- to be returned back to the country. They want to see these politicians --
GORANI: Let me just jump in -- really apologize for jumping in. We -- I'm being asked to ask your cameraman to go out the window because from what I
understand -- there. There's some desire to see what's going on there, so that you can kind of comment over those pictures for us, water cannon now
being aimed at the protestors, and also at that -- whatever that object is that's on fire.
WEDEMAN: Yes. That's sort of pieces from a construction site nearby. They've been burning at various places around the city. Behind them are
people chanting (INAUDIBLE), the people want the downfall of the regime, while we're seeing more tear gas being fired in the direction of the
protestors.
But what we saw when we were out over there earlier is, the protestors go back way -- all the way to Martyrs' Square, which it really is the -- the
heart of Beirut. So there are thousands of people out here. And as I said before, this is just one protest.
There are protests going on near the president's palace as well in Baabda, to the north of Beirut. So these demonstrations are probably going to go
on for a while.
Now, as far as we know, today, there were earlier reports that one person had been shot by the bodyguard of a politician. But it turns out he was
severely wounded, but not shot -- I mean, not killed in that instance.
Yesterday, overnight, two foreign workers died of smoke inhalation because they were in a building that was set on fire by the protestors. And we
understand that more than 60 members of the security forces have been wounded. And in fact, from this position where I am, I did see several of
them being beat up by the protestors, right below our window.
So it's a volatile situation. And certainly, Saad Al-Hariri, the prime minister, spoke on television three hours ago. But it seems to have had
zero impact on the anger in the streets below me -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Ben Wedeman, our senior international correspondent, talking to us through these pictures and this live report there, that gives
us a sense of the chaos on the streets of some parts of Beirut. Thanks, Ben, and we'll keep in touch.
Still to come, from unrest in the Middle East to unrest in Europe. These incredible scenes are from Barcelona, where protestors are pouring into the
streets, rallying against a recent jailing of Catalan pro-separatist leaders. We are live in that city as well.
[14:19:03]
Plus, the White House acting chief of staff admits that there was a quid pro quo with Ukraine after all. One day later, the Trump administration is
in full-out damage control mode. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: There's outrage in Barcelona as well as in Beirut tonight. And in fact, sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between footage from
Barcelona and footage from Beirut, if I'm being honest.
Violence broke out on the streets of Barcelona for a fifth straight day as more than half a million people joined rallies on Friday. They rallied
against a recent jailing of Catalan pro-separatist leaders. And we're going to get much more on this story in just about 10 minutes' time. I'll
be speaking to a "New York Times" reporter who's in the middle of the demonstrations.
In Washington, now, the Trump administration is in major damage control mode after a bombshell admission by the acting White House chief of staff
himself. It comes during a damaging week in the impeachment inquiry after reported startling depositions in Congress by three current and former
diplomats.
Sources say former top Russia advisor Fiona Hill said the White House was running a shadow diplomacy in Ukraine. And later, Ambassador to the E.U.
Gordon Sondland said he was told by President Trump to work with his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani.
And a short time ago, Mr. Trump spoke about all of this himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What just happened is Ambassador Kent, who I have never had the privilege -- I don't believe -- of meeting, I don't know him. And they
brought him in as a witness against me even though I don't know him.
And he excoriated -- from what they reported on the news, and of course maybe in this case it won't be fake news -- but he excoriated the Obama
administration and Joe Biden and Joe Biden's son, saying that there's (ph) tremendous problems, tremendous problems with Joe Biden's son and the
Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Meanwhile, the White House is walking back that startling admission that there was in fact a quid pro quo with Ukraine. Lauren Fox
has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER (voice-over): Mick Mulvaney, making this stunning admission when asked if President Trump held back military
aid to Ukraine for political gain.
MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We do that all the time with foreign policy.
I have news for everybody. Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.
FOX (voice-over): The acting chief of staff, seemingly confirming one of the whistleblower's key accusations, that the U.S. delayed nearly $400
million to Ukraine unless they started investigations at President Trump's bidding, including whether Ukraine was holding a DNC server from the 2016
election, one of the president's debunked conspiracy theories.
MULVANEY: The money held up had absolutely nothing to do with Biden.
FOX (voice-over): Allegations of a quid pro quo started after Trump's July 25th phone call with the Ukrainian president, and they're at the heart of
Democrats' impeachment inquiry, something Trump has denied for weeks.
TRUMP: There was no quid pro quo.
There was no quid pro quo.
And there was never any quid pro quo.
FOX (voice-over): Thursday's briefing, leaving the president fuming, one source tells CNN. Trump's personal legal team and the White House
Counsel's Office reportedly expressed concerns. The acting chief of staff, walking back his comments just hours later, writing, quote, "Let me be
clear, there was absolutely no quid pro quo... The president never told me to withhold any money."
Still, Democrats, not convinced.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Mr. Mulvaney's acknowledgement means that things have gone from very, very bad to much, much worse.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): This is hardly an Agatha Chrystie novel at this point. We've got Mulvaney, the White House chief of staff, coming out and
admitting to the crime.
FOX (voice-over): Meanwhile, Gordon Sondland, telling lawmakers, Thursday, Trump made his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani the gatekeeper of all things
Ukraine. The U.S. ambassador to the European Union testified that he didn't understand until later that Giuliani's agenda could involve getting
Ukrainian help in Trump's re-election campaign.
[14:25:07]
Sondland, becoming a prime witness in the impeachment inquiry after text messages between him and another U.S. diplomat revealed the message of,
quote, "no quid pro quo."
U.S. top diplomat to Ukraine Bill Taylor, testing Sondland, quote, "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political
campaign."
Sondland, telling Congress yesterday, "I asked the president: What do you want from Ukraine? The president responded, nothing. There is no quid pro
quo."
After that conversation, Sondland texting back, quote, "I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The president has been
crystal clear no quid pro quos of any kind."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: That was Lauren Fox, reporting. Let's dig deeper into what's happening in Washington for the impeachment -- from the impeachment
inquiry, to developments in Syria.
I'm joined now by CNN senior political analyst John Avlon in New York. Great talking to you, John. First of all, I want to ask you because our
viewers are most interested, I think, in what Trump is doing in northern Syria, and all the chaos that it caused and the domino effect that started
with the announcement that U.S. troops would be leaving that part of Syria entirely.
He's apparently really giving Turkey everything they want, even basically endorsing pushing out Kurdish fighters from this buffer zone that Turkey
wants, you know, to protect itself with. Is this a deliberate strategy by the president?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The fact you have to ask, is an indication of part of the problem. It makes no sense on its face. This is
not the art of the deal, it's the art of the fail. Erdogan got everything he wanted out of this.
Moreover, the United States, by the president's impulsive decision, not consulting allies or military advisors, abandoned our Kurdish allies and
empowered at least four malevolent forces that the United States has no reason to trust: Russia, Iran, Syria and ISIS, all with one impulsive
presidential decision --
GORANI: Yes.
AVLON: -- which has resulted in bloodshed. And now, the ceasefire itself reportedly has been violated.
So this is a major black mark. And for the first time, Hala -- I think it's important for folks to understand this -- for the first time,
Republicans in the Senate seem to be growing a spine and pushing back on the president on this issue.
Overwhelming, a condemnation passing in the House. And now, the Senate taking very stern language to the president as well. This seems to be the,
quote-unquote, red line in terms of how far can the president go without his own party speaking up.
GORANI: So this is the red line for Republicans on the Hill. Is it a red line for Trump's supporters? Because, you know, there was a 20,000-
capacity arena that was packed with people coming to hear Trump speak in Texas yesterday. There was a line wrapped around the block.
Do American voters who support Trump care about what he does or doesn't do in northern Syria or the Middle East?
AVLON: It's probably not the top of their agenda. I'd be careful, judging, you know, support solely from crowds. The president's very
popular in places like Texas, although he's overall -- you know, he's actually more unpopular in Texas than popular, which is --
GORANI: Yes.
AVLON: -- kind of striking for a Republican president.
Look, you know, Americans don't typically make political decisions based on foreign policy. However, the president and the Republican base is
traditionally very strong on the military. And you have heard strong condemnation from the military about this action: members of the military,
members of the special forces, speaking out and saying that their sense of honor has been compromised by this presidential impulse.
And that may have a trickle-down effect. This is not being tough, this is being weak and empowering our enemies.
GORANI: And that leads me to my next question beautifully. Because James Mattis, the former defense secretary, was essentially at an event, mocking
Donald Trump. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES MATTIS, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm not just an overrated general, I am the greatest, the world's most overrated.
I'm honored to be considered that by Donald Trump because he also called Meryl Streep an overrated actress. So I guess I'm the Meryl Streep of
generals.
I earned my spurs on the battlefield, Martin (ph), as you pointed out. and Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor, so.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: You were at that even, I understand.
AVLON: Yes.
GORANI: Does this harm Trump more than, say, a picture of Nancy Pelosi wagging her finger at him at a White House meeting? Does it harm him?
AVLON: Well, I do think that meeting and the ripple effects -- you know, CNN's been reporting that Republicans in that meeting were horrified by the
president. They put out this picture, thinking it was bad for Nancy Pelosi. She then made it her background image on her social account. So
that backfired.
But the Jim Mattis thing's significant, right? Because he has been -- he resigned from the Trump administration over the president's first impulse
to pull out of Syria, which he ultimately followed through on this week.
[14:30:00]
But he's really, like many military folks in America, very reluctant to criticize a sitting president. There's a separation of military and
politics that goes deep here culturally. This is a charity dinner in New York, it's very politicized dinner.
The fact he came out using humor and history to really clearly take shots on the president. Pushing back on the criticism. But also making the case
that the president is not upholding the honor of the office.
I think it is an indication, also in the last 24 hours, a very respected general named, Admiral McRaven, who oversaw the Bin Laden raid, coming out
with an op-ed in the New York Times saying Donald Trump is destroying our republic. That's not subtle. That's a lot further feel.
And frankly president should be concerned, simply because these people have a lot of moral authority in the military and they're saying that the
commander in chief is not upholding the honor in the office.
GORANI: All right. Pleasure having you in the program, John Avlon.
AVLON: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: Have a great weekend.
AVLON: You too.
GORANI: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Violence has broken on out the streets of Barcelona. Riot police clashed with protesters who turned out for the fifth straight day. Take a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: These were some big demonstrations. More than a half a million people joined the protests Friday. They are rally against prison sentences
given to pro-independence politicians in Spain.
The country's interior ministry says nine people were arrested earlier and that three policemen were injured. And these are live images, by the way,
coming to us from Barcelona. All of this is still very much in full swing.
Officials also postponed a major football match between Barcelona and Real Madrid scheduled for next week.
"New York Times" journalist, Rafael minor joins me on the phone from Barcelona. Are you on the streets? Are you in the middle of all of this,
Raphael? What are you all seeing?
RAPHAEL MINDER, JOURNALIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I was in the middle of this about 10 minutes ago. I've just moved out because it was actually
probably impossible to take your call.
GORANI: OK.
MINDER: I was in the midst of a very young crowd, shouting at the police, throwing bottles, eggs, and police responding with charges, lots of smoke,
and flares and very tense atmosphere.
GORANI: And what do they want, the demonstrators? What would it take to resolve this?
MINDER: At this stage, not so. The protesting following the sentencing to prison of nine former cabinet leaders. They were handed between 9 and 13
years of prison for their attempted possession move two years ago.
[14:35:02]
I think we are seeing the start of a new phase where definitely French movement, maybe hard to say how big, who they feel that the politicians
have let them down, they've not done anything, they've allowed Madrid and Spanish judges to sentence people to very long terms, elected politicians,
and they are not taking matters more into their own hands.
Because I say, a lot of these people -- I was surrounded by some people who I would say in their late teens, very excited and very determined to make
the point and not afraid of the Spanish police.
GORANI: Because these are really, really large crowds. I mean, I was just telling our viewers, half a million people today?
MINDER: That's right. But I think there's a -- there's literally two different things going on. During the afternoon, we had a massive
demonstration. As you say, 525,000 people, according to local Barcelona police.
That was almost, I would say, a festive atmosphere. Very similar to a lot of the big demonstrations which have been some of the largest in Europe
that I've been calling for now, almost a decade. People came from all sorts of towns around Barcelona.
And now, it's evening time, and it's a different ball game all together. It's young people hurting and it's riot police and it's definitely
different.
GORANI: All right. Sounds like a different atmosphere right now versus earlier today.
Raphael Minder of the New York Times. Thanks so much for joining us from Barcelona with the very latest there on those widespread and occasionally
violent demonstrations. We'll keep our eye on that. As we are keeping our eye, by the way, on what's going on in Beirut.
And we're also following Brexit. British and European negotiators have agreed to a Brexit plan as we've been reporting. Now, the attention turns
to London. British Prime Minster Boris Johnson's cabinet met earlier to discuss the plan, a day before the House of Commons is scheduled to vote.
That is tomorrow Saturday.
The big question is, does the Prime Minister of this country, Boris Johnson, have the numbers in Parliament to get his deal through the House
of Commons? The outcome is far from certain.
Bianca Nobilo reports on where things stand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Boris Johnson is leading a minority government. Since taking office, he's seen defections and he's
expelled these 21 rebel M.P.s from the party, after they backed an opposition bill that, in theory, blocks a no-deal Brexit.
This exodus has seen Johnson's command at the Commons go from a surface of one to a shortfall that's in the 20s. That's if you include the
Conservative Party's partners, the Democratic Unionist Party.
But they say they won't back Johnson's new plan. So can this minority government get the deal through Parliament? Well, not without the support
of, at least, some of the opposition. But where could that support come from?
JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: As it stands, we cannot support this deal and what imposes to Parliament on Saturday.
NOBILO: Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party, is against Johnson's new deal. But a handful of his pro-Brexit MPs could defy him and vote for
it. There's also the possibility that some of these Labour MPs from staunchly pro-Brexit constituencies, might abstain, making a majority
threshold easier to reach.
Let's break down some of the smaller parties in this other category. The leader of the Liberal Democrats wants to cancel Brexit all together. So,
Johnson is unlikely to win over any of these 19 votes.
And as for the Scottish National Party, well, he's their leader and the Commons.
IAN BLACKFORD, WESTMINSTER LEADER, SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY: The prime minister doesn't have the consent of this House. He doesn't have the
consent of these either. This dumb deal awfully devastating no-deal Brexit. Let me tell him no, he will never have the consent of Scotland.
NOBILO: Now, that still leaves these 35 independent MPs. Most are former conservatives. And it's quite likely that some will be incline to take the
side of their old party. So with the conservatives and the labor rebels and these independent wild cards, a majority of a Boris Johnson's deal
might just be possible, if still unlikely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And Bianca Nobilo joins me now.
NOBILO: Hello.
GORANI: So what happens if this deal doesn't go through? There is a law that, technically, impels Boris Johnson to ask for an extension.
NOBILO: It does. So, you have to send the message to the European Union, asking for an extension. Now, the rhetoric coming out of the E.U.
yesterday was very helpful for Boris Johnson. They didn't say that they wouldn't grant him an extension. But Juncker said, no prolongation, which
to some people was read as they're not willing to extend.
We also heard that not all the leaders are singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to extension. So that would help Boris Johnson. Because the
U.K. government has been operating over the last few years, often forget the component of all this.
[14:40:05]
And the Letwin Amendment which now everybody is talking about, which we'll see tomorrow, is another potential way to force Boris Johnson to ask for an
extension no matter what. Again, contingent on the E.U.
GORANI: Yes. And I was very pointedly corrected on Twitter by an army of fact checkers that Juncker does not have the power to extend or not Article
50. This is down to the leaders. But by saying what he said, he's signaling they're not willing to go down that road.
Now, MPs, are any MPs still undecided at this late stage and what could sway them one way or the other?
NOBILO: Yes, many MPs are. In fact, I know a several who are going back to their constituencies tonight who are meeting with those who elected them
as MPs and chosen the selection process. So basically, their local supporters to hear them out, to explain their position, to talk through
Boris Johnson's new deal. So there are those who still haven't decided what they are going to do.
Now, that pertains mainly to the hardball Brexiteers, if you like, the European research group, feel like maybe Boris Johnson went a few
concessions too far here.
But if they don't back the deal, they might risk Brexit all together, because it does seem that's it's only going to lead an extra beat to either
a second referendum, maybe a softer customs union still Brexit or even revocations. It's very hard to tell.
GORANI: Yes.
NOBILO: And those who are concerned that Boris Johnson's deal is too vague. There are ends of this, they are not flushed out enough to many
members of parliament. It is a harder Brexit than a lot of reluctant Brexiteers would like to see. So those members of parliament who perhaps
voted remain or who are willing to accept the results of the referendum but definitely want as closer deal of the prime minister as possible.
GORANI: This is just a withdrawal agreement. We haven't even started negotiating trade deals, customs agreements, that type of thing.
NOBILO: Exactly.
GORANI: We'll see you on your program at 10:00 p.m. British Time.
NOBILO: Thank you.
GORANI: And tomorrow as well, you'll be covering this both.
NOBILO: Yes.
GORANI: Thank you so much.
The Duchess of Cambridge has given her first news interview since becoming part of the royal family eight years ago. Our Max Foster has the exclusive
that you'll only see here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Well, the thunderstorms are finally cleared in this part of Pakistan. It caused
havoc yesterday, we're on the royal flight trying to go to Islamabad. We had to abort two landings because the turbulence was just too bad. But the
tour schedule is back on track.
This week's royal tour of Pakistan has been a visual feast. But behind each photo opportunity, lies an issue that the Duke and Duchess of
Cambridge care passionate about and want to highlight.
Take the SOS children's village in Lahore, a remarkable project that homes, educates, and nurtures orphans.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the (INAUDIBLE) skills. Wow.
FOSTER: This was the duchess's first news interview since she married the duke eight years ago.
FOSTER: Thank you very much for speaking to us. But I know this is a cause that's close to your heart.
KATE MIDDLETON, DUCHESS OF CAMBRIDGE: Absolutely. I think William and I really wants to come and see an SOS children's village like this. You
know, there's so many vulnerable women here, but they've really sort of used their positivity and the support that the village here provides them
really to support and protect the next generation for children and their care and give them the best possible start for their future lives.
FOSTER: you looked like you've really, really enjoyed that entire visit.
MIDDLETON: Yes. It's been fantastic. We've seen a lot of Pakistan, and there's (INAUDIBLE). It's amazing seeing some topography. But then to see
some of the, you know, community out of these has been really special.
FOSTER: You can't come to Pakistan as a member of the British family and avoid comparisons to Diana, Princes of Wales, especially when you visit the
same unmistakably beautiful mosque.
This another memorable image from the 1990s, Lahore, and the duke and duchess visiting the same hospital, keen to keep the late princess' legacy
alive, but without imitating her.
The future king and queen wearing royalty in their own way.
FOSTER (on-camera): It's been really interesting watching this couple grow into their roles, they are going to be king and queen one day. And what
they're effectively doing is defining what sort of monarchy Britain will have in the future.
Max Foster, CNN, Pakistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come tonight, El Chapo might be in a U.S. prison, bus his son is still part of the deadly chaos in Mexico. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:46]
GORANI: Mexican forces say they allowed the son of El Chapo to go free after federal troops were outgunned during a firefight with the drug cartel
in Sinaloa state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNSHOTS)
GORANI: It really looks like something out of a movie. Heavy gunfire came from a house where Ovidio Guzman, the son of drug kingpin, Joaquin El Chapo
Guzman was hiding. Officials say he was detained but chaos ensued as more cartel members showed up overpowering law enforcement. Mexico's president
says the operation was suspended to save lives.
CNN's Matt Rivers is live in Mexico City with the very latest. And, Matt, it's incredible, I mean, you have these drug cartels, they are so well
armed and organized that they're basically outgunning law enforcement, and it's law enforcement that has to pull back.
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. And by the videos that we've seen and by the statements that we've heard today
by Mexican authorities, it doesn't even look like it was close to being a fair fight in terms of the amount of firepower brought to their by members
of the cartel in that part of the -- in part of the Sinaloa State that were trying to get one of their leaders out.
It was after El Chapo Guzman, the founder of the Sinaloa Cartel, was extradited to the United States a few years ago that two of his sons,
according to the U.S. government kind of picked up where he left off starting to run at least in part the family business, and so they became
targets of Mexican authorities and the U.S. officials.
This operation that was under taken by Mexican officials was done in part, because there is a standing extradition request by the United States
government where Ovidio Guzman has been already charged with drug trafficking in the U.S. So that's why they were going after him in the
first place.
But according to officials who gave a press conference today, Hala, they were saying that this raid was planned poorly by municipal police who
somehow didn't expect that they were going to face a response from the cartel in the way that they did. That's why the situation spiraled out of
control so quickly. And so now, the fallout begins.
You know, this was basically an unprecedented act by the government to detain briefly a leader of cartel, one of Mexico's most wanted individuals
and then let him go.
You know, in the more decade -- in a more than a decade that we've seen here in Mexico of the drug war, we have never really seen something like
this before.
Right now, the president here, President Lopez Obrador, he has pretty good approval ratings, but we're going to see what happens as the Mexican public
digest what happened in Sinaloa, because this is something that really is unprecedented in the history of Mexico's war against drugs.
GORANI: It is remarkable.
Matt Rivers. Thanks very much.
Still to come. Even seemingly innocent post may tell hackers more than you think. CNN's eye-opening report is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:23]
GORANI: It is a giant step for womankind outside the International Space Station. Just a few hours ago, American astronauts, Jessica Meir and
Christina Koch, headed outside on the first all-female spacewalk ever where they successfully repaired a faulty battery unit.
The first attempt to descend two women out on a spacewalk had to be scrapped back in March when there weren't enough medium size space suit.
You might remember that.
President Trump congratulated the women on the historic event.
We've all been warned about sharing personal information on social media. But even seemingly innocent posts may pose a risk.
CNN tech reporter, Donie O'Sullivan allowed himself to willingly be hacked to show us all how vulnerable we are online.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN TECH REPORTER: You have stolen about $2,500 worth of hotel points. And worst of all, you helped put me in a middle seats.
RACHEL TOBAC, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SOCIALPROOF SECURITY: (INAUDIBLE) dollar flight.
O'SULLIVAN: Oh, my God. And they just let you do it?
TOBAC: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: (BLEEP) them.
So I am here in Las Vegas for two of the world's biggest hacking conferences. And for some reason, I have agreed to be hacked.
I'm meeting Rachel Tobac who specializes in a special form of hacking called social engineering, and I'm very nervous.
TOBAC: I feel like I know pretty much everything about you.
O'SULLIVAN: I instantly don't trust you.
So am I going to be safer today thanks to you?
TOBAC: You and every other customer will be safer today, thanks to what you're willing to let me do.
O'SULLIVAN: Well, let's get started, I guess.
TOBAC: OK. So you want to assume that everything you put on social media is public. Information that can be found in places like this can be used
to authenticate you with different companies. Do you remember this tweet?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
TOBAC: I used this to gain access to your current address.
O'SULLIVAN: What?
TOBAC: So what I did is I called up this furniture company right here and I basically said, hey, we're going to buy another one of these pieces of
furniture. But I need to make sure that I don't accidentally have the wrong information on the account. And they said, no, I mean, you ordered
something a while ago, but the thing that you ordered, we shipped to this address.
And, yes, I think I got this updated address which is pretty scary. Because that happened in 30 seconds.
I got your current address; I got your birthday from Twitter. I called like pretty much every business that he ever listed that he used on his
Twitter, Instagram. What you have to understand is when you do that, I now know which company you use and I know which company as to call as you.
O'SULLIVAN: Did you get from boutique hotel?
TOBAC: Your phone number and your e-mail address.
O'SULLIVAN: They gave you my phone number?
TOBAC: Mm-hmm.
So I'm going to be doing these phone calls, I'm going to be actually live hacking. So when I call, your phone number is going to display on their
caller I.D.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this Donie O'Sullivan?
O'SULLIVAN: Who are you really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. This is -- this is Donie O'Sullivan. I can tell you my address, phone number, and date of birth, whatever you need to know
to verify that that's really me.
O'SULLIVAN: That's wild.
TOBAC: I am on the road right now and I'm having trouble getting access to my internet. But I need to transfer points to my friend for a bridal
shower. Hopefully you can help me out over the phone. I have all the information.
I have 90,000, is that correct? So the first and last name is Rachel Tobac? Oh, they've been transferred? OK. Fantastic.
O'SULLIVAN: Oh, my God.
TOBAC: Thank you. Have a great day. Bye-bye.
Are your points gone?
O'SULLIVAN: They're gone. That is crazy.
[14:55:00]
When you call this airline, it's going to be coming from my number.
TOBAC: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: As you know, I live in Vegas.
TOBAC: I'll put you in the middle.
I'm trying to do this like personal essay thing. So, can you move me to a middle seat, kind of in the back of the plane? Because I know you probably
don't get that request a lot.
Oh, perfect. OK. So it's a row right before the last row and it's in the middle seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen --
TOBAC: You're in the back of the plane the middle seat.
O'SULLIVAN: I'm in the exit isle.
TOBAC: I know. He picked up saying, Mr. O'Sullivan, how can I help you?
O'SULLIVAN: If I was not sitting here with you, and didn't know, they said, well, sorry, you called it off and requested this, I would flip
(BLEEP) out.
TOBAC: Think about how much you have to do to get into your accounts online. You have to have a password, two-factor. We are basically living
in the dark ages on the phone compared to how hard it is to break into accounts online.
Until these companies who learned to change their authentication protocols. There are certain things you can do to help to protect yourself.
Remove your geo location tagging when you're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. There's just no need for people to know exactly where you're
staying in those places. After that, I would say products that you buy, services that you've purchased, help that you try to get online like on
Twitter. That you probably going to want to do privately. So maybe in D.M.s. Because I'm just going to call them up as you and trying to get
information.
I think the most important thing is that I'm not going to victim blame you. Yes, sure, there are things that you can do to make my job a little harder.
Ultimately, it is the company's responsibility to keep their customer's data safe, and updating their authentication protocols over the phone is a
really good way to start. I'm sorry about that, Donie.
O'SULLIVAN: I'm so glad I agreed to do this, Rachel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Really good advice and fascinating stuff.
I want to end in Las Vegas where not everything that happens there stays there. Because look at poor Lady Gaga, look what happened to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
GORANI: She invited a fan on stage, jumped into his arms, then tumbled backward. Almost immediately, Gaga jumped back on stage though and
continued the show. My goodness.
Thanks you for watching tonight. If it's your weekend, have a great one. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
