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CNN NEWSROOM

Trump's Previous Pledge; Interview With Rep. Francis Rooney (R- FL); Interview With Former Governor John Kasich (R-OH); Bernie Sanders Back On The Trail; Trump Tower Istanbul; Trump's Longtime Business ties in Turkey in the Spotlight; 51 Percent Now Approve of Impeachment Inquiry against Trump; Texts Reveal Boeing Employees Knew of 737 MAX Issues in 2015; Internet Melts Down over Pelosi Photo. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 19, 2019 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: As he said whenever he saw that we were not living up to our Founders' vision for America and meeting the needs of our children for the future: We are better than this.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Twenty-four days after Democrats announced a formal impeachment inquiry, there are now hairline cracks in the Republican resistance to impeach. To be clear, no sitting Republican Congressman is calling for impeachment proceedings.

But a growing number of leading voices in the party are sounding off against President Trump. And that includes Congressman Frances Rooney of Florida, who also revealed today he is not running for re-election. The cracks come after a week of chronic bombshells from the impeachment inquiry and elsewhere, including the withdraw of U.S. troops in Syria, abandoning a long-time ally of the U.S., the Kurds, and the announcement Trump plans to use his own resort in Miami, or in the Miami area, to host the G7.

And, finally, the admission that there was a quid pro quo, when the U.S. withheld Ukraine's military aid. That admission came from Trump's Acting White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, who later tried to walk it back. But he's on video saying one of the reasons the White House withheld Ukraine's military aid was to get Ukraine to investigate Democrats.

CNN White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond joins us now. Jeremy, Mick Mulvaney has a meeting with Republicans at Camp David today. Is impeachment on the agenda?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, it's hard to imagine how it would not come up. After all, that is the story consuming Washington right now, particularly the White House and Capitol Hill.

And Mick Mulvaney, the Acting Chief of Staff, has now put himself at the center of that latest -- of the latest developments on that storyline, with that stunning admission, just a couple days ago, from the White House Briefing Room podium. That there was, indeed, some kind of quid pro quo. That at least the reason for withholding that security aid was, in part, being driven by the president's desire for Ukraine to investigate Democrats, as it relates to the 2016 election.

But, of course, Ana, there are other issues also on the table, particularly because a series of decisions by the president in the last week have really sparked some concerns among Republicans in Congress, namely -- so, beyond the impeachment inquiry, you also have the president's decision in Syria, as it relates to U.S. troops there.

And then, of course, you also have the president's decision to hold the G7 next year, which is slated to be in the United States, at his own property in Miami, Florida. And the White House still insisting that that property was simply the best one that they could possibly find to host that G7 Summit -- Ana.

CABRERA: And to think that was just a couple days ago. Seems like light ages away from when we learned that announcement.

Thank you, Jeremy Diamond, at the White House for us.

It all started with a promise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At some point, I'm going to be so presidential that you people will be so bored. And I'll come back as a presidential person, and instead of 10,000 people, I'll have about 150 people and they'll say, but, boy, he really looks presidential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Remember that? So presidential, at some point. Well, this week marked 1,000 days of the Trump presidency. And what did we see? We saw the president of the United States go on Twitter and rail against the speaker of the House as having something wrong with her upstairs, after a meeting on Syria descended into name calling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What I witnessed, on the part of the president, was a meltdown. Sad to say.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK, SENATE MINORITY LEADER: He called her a third-rate politician. This was not a dialogue. It was, sort of, a diatribe. A nasty diatribe not focused on the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We saw the reports. He referred to his own former Defense Secretary, Jim Mattis, as the world's most overrated general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM MATTIS, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I'm honored to be considered that by Donald Trump, because he also called Merrill Streep an overrated actress. So, I guess I'm the Merrill Streep of generals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We saw the fallout from the president's sudden decision to pull U.S. troops from northern Syria. The invasion by Turkey, the killing of the Kurds, the escape of ISIS prisoners, and a land grab by Syria's dictator, Bashar Al Assad, and his enablers, Russia and Iran. And we saw a president who wants us to believe everything was fine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, I view the situation on the Turkish border with Syria to be, for the United States, strategically brilliant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We saw the extraordinary letter he sent, just three days after his fateful call with the president of Turkey, telling him not to do the very thing he made possible by abandoning the Kurds.

[17:05:05]

A letter that included lines like, let's work out a good deal. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool. I'll call you later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GERGEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This had such an adolescent quality to it. I must say, when I read it, I immediately called my research assistant and said, see if this is fake. I just can't believe the White House sent this out.

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: This letter that he handed out to all of us at the beginning, which I -- if he hadn't handed it out, himself, I would have thought it was not a real letter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And we saw the White House admit that, yes, the president did hold up aid to Ukraine, because he wanted them to investigate political opponents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: And I have news for everybody. Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy. That is going to happen. Elections have consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Oh, and in the middle of all that, we saw the president decide that the best place in the entire United States to hold next year's G7 Summit was at his own property. Trump National in Doral, Florida. And so, we've come back to where we started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to be so presidential that you people will be so bored.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Are you bored yet? With us now to discuss, CNN Political Commentator and Host of "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED," here on CNN, S.E. Cupp. And also with us, Bill Kristol. He's the director of Defending Democracy Together. Good to see both of you guys.

S.E., you wrote in an op-ed this week that you think this may have been, perhaps, a turning point for Republicans.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, if you go back to his candidacy and then his presidency, only one issue has had the ability to, sort of, unlock the vice grip that Trump has held on Congressional Republicans. It wasn't Russia. It wasn't Ukraine. It wasn't tariffs.

It wasn't some of his personal peccadillos. It wasn't some, you know, potential criminal activity. It was Syria. Whether it was last year in 2018, when Republicans, very vocally, immediately, and almost in unison, came out against his threats to quit northern Syria, at the time or now.

One hundred twenty-nine House Republicans voted against President Trump's withdrawal from Syria. That's stunning. And you have to take -- you have to -- you know, you have to take note of that. OK, if this is an issue, around which so many Republicans have suddenly found a backbone and are this comfortable calling him out, it must be really, really bad.

And so, I'm not sure that this won't be a turning point. And if you were a Republican, who may be on the fence, maybe secretly thinking, I don't know how much more of this guy I can take, well, this might just be your excuse to break ranks.

CABRERA: And Bill, yes, there was Syria. But what Mick Mulvaney said, at the White House podium, seemed to be enough for at least one Republican lawmaker, to announce publicly, he'd be open to considering impeachment. And former GOP Governor John Kasich said it was the final straw for him. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: So, you're saying, at this point, you are not ruling out the possibility that this is an impeachable offense for the president.

REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R), FLORIDA: I don't think you could rule anything out, until you know all the facts.

JOHN KASICH (R), FORMER GOVERNOR, OHIO: If you're asking me, if I was sitting in the House of Representatives today, and you were to ask me, how do I feel? Do I think impeachment should move forward and should go for a full examination and a trial in the United States Senate, my vote would be, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Bill, do you expect to see more of this?

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": I mean, I think they should be. I wouldn't over, you know, state the odds of the situation (ph). There's a ridiculous resolution that's been introduced in the House by a Republican, condemning Adam Schiff, I guess, for reading that, sort of, --

CABRERA: Right, as a censure of him.

KRISTOL: A censure of him, yes, which was really, kind of, bizarre. A hundred and seventy-three Republicans have co-sponsored it. And that, really, is stunning to me. It's such a, kind of, ridiculous gesture. And it's -- and it's silly and really offensive gesture almost. I mean, but that means 27 Republicans haven't. So, right, that's 27 Republicans resisting peer pressure on an issue that's directly related to impeachment, since that's what Schiff is being censured for, right?

So, I think Mulvaney's thing is very interesting. I was thinking, why is Mulvaney not just doing what every White House spokesman does and, sort of, deflect it and minimize it? And, of course, it occurred to me, he's in the middle of it.

Who was the person who held up the military aid? The Defense Department had the list done. Congress had appropriated the money. The Defense Department did its job. Everyone was circulating this around the government to make sure it was all done correctly.

And then, suddenly, it gets -- remember this? Suddenly, it gets stopped in the White House. And Mulvaney stops it. And they get no excuse, no explanation. The Defense Department is so worried that this is illegal. Because if Congress appropriates the funds, you're supposed to give them out. They have the Defense Department general counsel write a memo saying he doesn't know what's going on. The Defense Department has done its best.

So, that was Mulvaney. And Mulvaney knows. That's why -- why is Mulvaney so angry there and so, sort of, arrogant and stuff, instead of just trying to deflect the issue? Because Mulvaney was in the middle of it. Mulvaney knows why he stopped that military aid, because Donald Trump told him. And what Donald Trump said to him was not, you know, I've suddenly discovered a great interest in the overall problem of corruption in Ukraine.

[17:10:03]

And we need to, really, use this as leverage. And he told him, look, if that investigation into the Bidens isn't going forward, as Giuliani wants and so forth, stop the aid.

So, I think the Mulvaney thing is an important moment that shows how -- it shows how clear the inappropriate action by the president was. And it was by the president. This isn't one of those issues where it was someone else did something and maybe the president knew about it. Maybe the president condoned it. It was the president.

CABRERA: And so, on one hand, you see some vulnerability now, within the Republican ranks breaking potentially with this president, S.E. And, yet, you know, Congressman Rooney, who we heard there alongside Kasich, and he -- Rooney just announced he's not seeking re-election.

CUPP: Right.

CABRERA: And then, Kasich, when I pushed him and ask him, so, are you saying he should also be removed from office? Which, of course, would happen in a vote by the Senate.

CUPP: Right.

CABRERA: He wouldn't go there.

CUPP: Yes, we're not -- we're not there yet. We are not at breaking point. That's clear. But, again, I think this confluence of events, these pressure points for Republicans, he's almost taunting Republicans. Every time he goes out and says something in politic, and worse than in politic.

I mean, celebrating Turkey's ethnic cleansing of the Kurds is worse than in politic. Every time he says something like that, he's daring Republicans, leave me now. Are you ready? Is this the time?

And it just so happens that that mechanism is currently on the table. It's impeachment. And, again, when you take a vote for impeachment, you don't have to raise your hand personally and say, it was this. This was my breaking point.

So, who knows. I mean, all of this is happening at once. And if you're a Republican, again, who is maybe a little hesitant, there's so many excuses now, good reasons now, for you to really think seriously about this, in a way that I don't think a lot of Republicans ever had. Through Mueller. Through Russia. Even Ukraine. I think they were like, well, this is bad, but this isn't impeachable. And this is -- this is partisan. When it comes to Syria, I think this was a bridge too far, finally.

CABRERA: And I have to ask you about the bizarre feud between Hillary Clinton and Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard and former Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. Clinton saying Gabbard is a favorite of Russia. She said Stein is a Russian asset, to which Stein replied this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL STEIN, FORMER GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I am not a Russian spy. I think this is a completely unhinged conspiracy theory, for which there is absolutely no basis. In fact, not for myself and not for Tulsi Gabbard. I think it's really outrageous that Hillary Clinton is trying to promote this crazy idea. You know, you can't just slander people. You have to present some basis in fact. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Bill, does this, sort of side show, just play into Trump's hands? And, in a way, is Clinton acting like Donald Trump, by spouting conspiracy theories?

KRISTOL: Well, to be fair to Hillary Clinton, I think, I mean, she said, correctly, that Tulsi Gabbard is a favorite of Putin or of Assad. Certainly, it doesn't mean she's a spy or an asset. Jill Stein, I don't know, she hung out with Putin. I mean, Trump immediately defended Jill Stein. I was struck by that. Maybe Hillary Clinton should have been a little bit more careful. She was, I don't, I think it was an off-the-cuff -- off-the-cuff remarks. I don't think it changes anything.

I very much agree with S.E., though. The bringing together of Syria shows the real-world consequences of having Donald Trump as president and having him liberated, really. There's no Jim Mattis. There's no -- there's no -- none of the senior people who were there in the first couple years, whom Republicans could tell themselves -- about whom Republicans could tell themselves, you know, Trump's a little wacky.

And he has -- he wants to do illegal things. But Don McGahn stops him, and Jeff Sessions stops him, and Mattis stops him from doing things. In front of (INAUDIBLE), no one stops him. So, Syria shows the real-world consequences of Trump unleashed, here at the end of a thousand days of his presidency.

Doral shows the kind of -- the incredible brazenness of the corruption. And Ukraine shows, genuinely, I think, illegitimate use of U.S., you know, torturing or the turning (ph) U.S. foreign policy to his personal political ends.

CABRERA: S.E., final thought?

CUPP: Well, the Hillary-Stein-Tulsi thing is so bizarre. And just, I think for Hillary's part, so unwise. I don't think she needs to make these outlandish -- I mean, Bill is right. Tulsi is a favorite of Russia's and, certainly, Assad's. But she doesn't have to go this far. And it feels to me like Hillary is, sort of, in burn-it-down mode.

Just burn it down. I mean, her ever aides are, you know, giving these cute, you know, kind of, responses. Well, if the nesting doll fits. I mean, there's, really, sort of, the governor is off. She's --

CABRERA: I mean, how -- what -- how does this help the Democrats in any way with this? That's what I can't figure out.

CUPP: It doesn't. It doesn't. And you have to be wondering -- and I'm going to talk about this on the show tonight. You have to be wondering, if you're a front runner -- I mean, Tulsi is polling at one percent. You know, Hillary elevating her almost is not helpful. But if you're a real front runner with a chance of winning, I think you're worrying that Hillary might just be unhelpful in this, as this thing goes along, if she continues wading in like this. [17:15:02]

CABRERA: All right. S.E. Cupp, Bill Kristol, good to have both of you here. Be sure to tune in to S.E.'s show, "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED" at the top of the hour here on CNN.

And, tomorrow, Jake Tapper will interview Congressman Frances Rooney. That will be on "STATE OF THE UNION" at 9:00 a.m. right here on CNN

Just ahead, Bernie Sanders hosting his first rally, since recovering from a heart attack, and receiving one of the most coveted endorsements in the party. Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says Sanders is the candidate to beat President Trump.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Bernie Sanders is pushing past his recent health scare. The Democratic presidential hopeful headlined a rally in New York today almost three weeks after his heart attack. And he officially received the endorsement of one of the party's rising stars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: When the federal government decided to discriminate and abandon my queer family and friends, Bernie Sanders was putting his career on the line for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Ryan Nobles joins us now from Queens, New York, where that rally took place just a couple of hours ago. Ryan, what's your big takeaway there today?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the message here was loud and clear, Ana, and that is, Bernie is back. He said that many times. That was the hashtag that was trending on Twitter today.

And what was interesting, Ana, was that Sanders did not back away from these questions about his health. He wanted to make it clear, to everybody that was here at this packed park and people watching at home, that he is up to this challenge. That his health is OK. And that he can handle the rigors of a campaign and the presidency.

[17:20:08]

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am happy to report to you that I am more than ready. More ready than ever to carry on with you the epic struggle that we face today. I am more than ready to assume the office of president of the United States. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And Sanders will get back on the campaign trail in a big way. He heads to Iowa later this week. That caucus set to take place in just a little more than a hundred days. Sanders, of course, still has $30 million in his campaign war chest. He is someone that will still continue to be a force to be reckoned with in this Democratic primary.

Ana, those questions about his health will certainly linger, but Sanders did his level best to try and get past them here in this huge rally today, the biggest rally of his campaign, to this point -- Ana.

CABRERA: He's showing vibrancy, energy, and, obviously, his signature passion. Ryan Nobles, thank you for that reporting.

We have new developments in Syria today. Just as the Trump administration praised the supposed cease-fire, Turkish-backed forces were still actively attacking Kurdish soldiers. I'll have the latest when we come back live in the CNN Newsroom.

[17:21:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The cease-fire is not holding in Syria. That is what two U.S. officials are telling CNN. Today, one official blamed Turkish- backed forces but isn't clear if they violated the deal with the blessing of Turkey's government.

Meanwhile, President Trump's most important ally in Congress is slamming his decision to pull U.S. troops. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell writes in "The Washington Post," withdrawing U.S. forces from Syria is a grave strategic mistake. It will leave the American people and homeland less safe, embolden our enemies, and weaken important alliances.

But, at a rally Thursday, the president didn't seem particularly worried about the fate of the Syrian Kurds or the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes, you have to let them fight a little while, then people find out how tough the fighting is. These guys know right up here. These guys do. Right? Sometimes, you have to let them fight. It's like two kids in a lot. You got to let them fight, and then you pull them apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Senior Investigative Correspondent Drew Griffin has been looking into the president's relationship with the Turkish leader, as well as his business dealings in Turkey. Here's his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: It is the question not even whispered anymore in Washington. Why is Donald Trump allowing Turkey's leader to, seemingly, do whatever he wants? And with a self-promoting businessman in the White House, one theory focuses on Donald Trump's business in Turkey, and point to this braggadocious statement he made during the height of his presidential campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul. And it's a tremendously successful job. It's called Trump Towers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The truth is, Donald Trump doesn't own Trump Towers Istanbul. He owns a licensing deal. In 2008, a major Turkish developer agreed to pay Trump in a multi-million-dollar deal to use his name to build two towers, a residential and an office building, along with a shopping mall underneath.

Trump's daughter, Ivanka, helped with design, picking out the finishes, as Trump said at the opening in 2012. But that's pretty much it. Trump Towers Istanbul is not owned, developed, or sold by the Trump Organization or any of their current or former principals or affiliates. It is a Trump property, in name only, and that name continues to pay him.

During the presidential campaign, financial disclosures by the Trump campaign stated income from Trump Istanbul between $1 million and $5 million. Last year, the president's financial disclosure brought that figure down from $100,000 to $1 million.

A source familiar with Trump's business telling CNN the fee fluctuates on condominium sales and the strength of the Turkish economy. And despite Trump telling Turkish reporters, in 2012, that he was looking to do something else because this has been so successful, a Trump Organization official says that never happened. There was nothing else in Turkey. There are no new projects.

What happened developed, according to Soner Cagaptay, is a, sort of, bromance between Turkey's strong man, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and President Trump, who is envious of Erdogan's powers.

SONER CAGAPTAY, TURKISH RESEARCH PROGRAM DIRECTOR, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: I think the reason the Erdogan-Trump relationship works because -- is because Erdogan has a political man crush on Trump. And the other way is also true. Trump also has -- seems to be quite infatuated by Erdogan and his governance style.

GRIFFIN: Cagaptay is Director of Turkish Research at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy and has just released his third book on Turkey, "Erdogan's Empire." CAGAPTAY: Erdogan has been able to build a base that adores him. And, I think, in some ways, Trump, perhaps, wants to copy that model inside U.S. politics. But, at the same time, the two leaders get each other, because they're both strong men. They both want to make -- want their nation strong.

GRIFFIN: It's a relationship that dates back to at least 2012, when then prime minister Erdogan attended the launch of Trump Towers Istanbul, and Ivanka Trump made sure to publicly thank him. Since taking office, Trump has hosted Erdogan twice at the White House. Met him in Japan. The two men share another connection, son-in-laws who participate in governing decisions.

In February, Trump sent his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to Turkey to discuss Middle East strategy.

[17:30:03]

In March, Erdogan admitted, "My son-in-law has a working bridge to Kushner." And discussed how his son-in-law and Kushner text each other.

Last week, the White House announced Erdogan will visit the White House again next month. That was before the current backlash over Trump's decision to pull troops out of Syria, before Trump imposed sanctions, and before Turkey's assault on Kurdish forces.

Now the strategy and mutual admiration between these two leaders is being challenged by the same issue --

(APPLAUSE)

GRIFFIN: -- how to appear strong to their base while also trying to prevent yet another Middle East war.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Just ahead in the NEWSROOM, after a week full of revelations in the impeachment probe, more Republicans are breaking with the president. But with the 2020 election just a year away, is impeachment gaining any ground with voters?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:09]

CABRERA: Fifty-one percent, that's how many Americans now approve of the House's impeachment inquiry into President Trump. According to a new Quinnipiac poll, that's up 10 percent from a similar poll taken in August.

With us now, Harry Enten, a CNN senior political writer and analyst. And the man who knows all the polls and the numbers and always doing that number crunching --

(CROSSTALK)

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER & ANALYST: If I wasn't doing number crunching, I probably would just be a circus gymnastics guy.

CABRERA: You would probably take a vacation day.

ENTEN: That has never actually happened. How dare you suggest I should do that.

CABRERA: I know. That is the truth.

Let's talk about the numbers. Walk us through this latest poll.

ENTEN: I think this is rather important. You mentioned the Quinnipiac University poll. The thing I like is you show multiple numbers showing the same thing. There's Quinnipiac/Pugh research poll. They also suggest something similar. You see a majority support the impeachment inquiry into President Trump.

But it's more than that. There's some sort of question as to, how is this affecting his approval rating, how is it lining up with it. What you see right now is that the amount of people who oppose the impeachment inquiry line up well with President Trump's job approval rating, while the number of people who support the impeachment line up with his disapproval rating.

CABRERA: So when it comes to this majority supporting the impeachment inquiry, is that trending upward, or is it flat? What are you seeing?

ENTEN: I think this is rather important. What we saw previously, before the impeachment inquiry started, just 41 percent thought it was a good idea back in August. When the impeachment inquiry started, what we saw in September was that 52 percent thought it was a good idea.

Now we're seeing that trend line flatten out. It seems to be flattening out around 52 percent. So a majority of Americans support the impeachment inquiry, but it's not a super majority, and it seems to be holding on at this point.

CABRERA: That's on the inquiry itself. The majority of Americans support the inquiry. What about where the public stands when it comes to actual impeachment and following through and removing this president from office?

ENTEN: I think this is rather important, right? Essentially, what you see sometimes is people mixing up these two numbers but, in fact, that's not exactly what's going on here. People are making a difference between the impeachment inquiry and removing Trump from office.

So the percentage of Americans who want to impeach and remove from office is about five points lower than those who currently support the inquiry. About 47 percent of Americans say they support impeaching and removing Trump from office.

So there's some potential movement there, but there's, to me, in my mind, still this group of people, this core group of people, this key group of people, it's a small group of the public, who say, we support the inquiry, but let's see where it goes from here.

They're saying there's not enough evidence right now. Let's see as the inquiry unfolds whether those people move over to that camp saying we want to impeach and remove Trump from office.

CABRERA: People are hearing you say that, are like, wait a minute, wasn't there a poll from Gallup that said a majority of Americans support removal from office? Are you talking about averaging the polls?

ENTEN: That's exactly right, Ana. This is so important. We really want to average across polls. I can show you a poll from Gallup that says, you know, a majority of Americans want to impeach, remove Trump from office. Then I can show you a Quinnipiac University poll that shows the opposite.

In fact, the plurality of Americans do not want to impeach and remove. I think it's rather important that we need to average across these numbers.

That was why, in that opening question you asked, I was so keen to point out we have multiple polls showing that people want to support the impeachment inquiry, but we're not there quite yet with impeach- and-remove question.

That's the real question going forward, whether or not these investigations will show enough that the majority of Americans across numerous polls support impeaching and removing Trump from office.

CABRERA: Obviously, very important because of the political process that it would take for the president --

(CROSSTALK)

ENTEN: Voters, at the end of the day, are the people who vote in and vote out the elected politicians. They're going to listen to those voters. So far, that's why you haven't have a lot of Republicans move, because the vast majority of Republicans do not support the impeachment inquiry, nor do they support impeaching and removing Trump from office.

CABRERA: Harry, thanks as always for breaking it down.

ENTEN: I try.

CABRERA: Good to see you.

ENTEN: Nice to see you.

Two years before a pair of deadly plane crashes, new internal messages are revealing employee concerns about those Boeing 737 MAX planes. What federal regulators are demanding now.

[17:39:30]

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A new controversy for Boeing's grounded 737 MAX fleet after those two deadly plane crashes in the past 12 months. The FAA is demanding to know why the company is only now releasing evidence of concern from some of its employees about the stabilization system.

Let me read you a few of these instant messages between Boeing workers. And keep in mind, these were sent four months before the federal government even approved the MAX planes for use.

When discussing that stabilization system, one pilot writes, "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious." Then about the simulator, "It's running rampant in the SIM on me."

A pilot also expresses concerns he unknowingly misled the FAA. A co- worker then assures him, "It wasn't a lie. No one told us that was the case."

We should note the system was left out of the pilot manual.

David Soucie, a CNN safety analyst, a former FAA safety inspector, and co-author of "Why Planes Crash," joins us.

David, good to see you.

Lawmakers and FAA are demanding answers. Boeing says it will continue to Cooperate, but has it explained this delay in sharing these really crucial messages, it would seem? So how concerned should the public be?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, at this point, I don't know how concerned the public should be more than they have been already because the 737 MAX is grounded.

It's indicating all kinds of internal issues within not only Boeing but the FAA. There's going to be a lot of finger pointing back and forth between the two, to kind of divert the responsibility as to who started this.

It really doesn't matter who started it when you've got that many fatalities on your hands.

[17:45:10]

CABRERA: So these were internal messages going, you know, back and forth between employees, but if these pilots, if other employees were so worried back then, why wouldn't they come forward or done so more vocally?

SOUCIE: Ana, this is something we've been looking at since 2004. We had a certification process study. I led an aviation rule-making committee that talked about the safety sharing environment within the manufacturers, the communications between the engineers and the flight team and the different pressures that they have. The engineers have pressure when they start.

But at the end, when you're a flight test pilot and you come back and say, hey, I found a problem and this might delay us for years, there's a lot of pressure on that. And the environment needs to be created by Boeing, by manufacturers of large aircraft that, at that point, it doesn't matter what the impact is. The fact is it needs to be brought forward.

Without that environment where they feel safe sharing that information, it's going to get stifled. It's going to be hidden messages and instant messages between each other instead of really bringing up these safety issues.

CABRERA: Right now, there's ongoing testing. There's ongoing tweaks being made. Boeing hasn't stopped making the MAX jets. They're building 42 more of them each month. Given all the questions, why wouldn't the company maybe walk away from this fleet at this point?

SOUCIE: Well, they've got a lot invested in it, Ana. You know, the 737 is an amazing airplane. The engines are amazing engines as well. Is it too late to walk away from it? I don't think so. I think there's something that can be done at this point to say we need to start over and develop a new aircraft.

But you can't just trash that. They have to make this right. If they can't make it right, then it indicates there's much deeper problems within Boeing. Just for their own credibility, they have to prove they can get this aircraft back in line.

CABRERA: As an aviation expert, could there ever be a point where you would feel safe flying in a MAX jet?

SOUCIE: I think there is. I'm going up to Boeing next week or within the next 10 days, and I'm going to look at it myself. I'm going to see what's happening. I'm going to see what the FAA Administrator Dixon is looking at. I'm going to speak with the executives at Boeing, and I'm going to make that decision myself as to whether it's safe to fly or not.

I'll be back with you on that after I go to Seattle. Once I go up there, I want to see what they're doing, how they're doing it, and are they not just fixing this airplane? They have things to fix within the organization that I think need to be safe before I'll get on that airplane.

CABRERA: And how do you think they should go about informing the public of what this is, to satisfy not only the FAA and Congress, really all of us that it will be safe to travel in a MAX plane.

SOUCIE: Ana, that's a great question. It's a question that NASA faced back when the space shuttles crashed, when they had the space shuttle issue. They had to go back and examine their entire safety organization, what the environment is that they're creating, how they communicate with each other.

That was a deep dive. That's exactly what Boeing is going to have to do. They need to quit taking these internal people. They've started with the admiral having a separate safety examination.

But those people are all on the board. They're Boing centric, if you will. They need to come up with someone from the outside to say, we're going to take an independent look at this.

Normally, that would be the FAA. At this point, it needs to be the International Aviation Transport Association or someone outside of that organization, to say, this is safe. You've done it right. We're back in business again.

But without that, I don't see how Boeing is going to correct this.

CABRERA: All right. David Soucie, thanks so much. Good to see you.

On tomorrow's brand-new episode of "THIS IS LIFE," Lisa Ling explores the inner workings of Mississippi's fastest growing gang and how some are walking away from the brotherhood and turning their lives around.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA LANG, CNN HOST, "THIS IS LIFE": So if being royal is about being positive and about this brotherhood, why are there so many royals locked up?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like especially here in Mississippi, it's due to drugs. Some people, they think that, oh, man, I can control it, but then it's like after a while, it's just like anything. It takes control of you.

Look at these jails. Probably 60 percent of people in here right now, if not more than that, are here because of drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My only motivation was bettering my family. I got a little girl that means everything to me. But I went the wrong way about doing it. I partook in selling drugs. It was quick, easy money. It was fast money. Now I'm answering for it.

I take responsibility for being one of the brothers that has given my organization a bad name. Obviously I'm sitting here in shackles.

This is completely against what is represents. If people knew the good that's in this, we wouldn't have the rep like a criminal organization. We wouldn't have a rap as a gang because we're not gang.

I love this organization. And I'll die for this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:50:15] CABRERA: A brand-new episode of "THIS IS LIFE" airs tomorrow night at 10:00 here on CNN.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Now proof that one man can make a big dent in cleaning our oceans. Meet this week's "CNN Hero."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: The beach was covered in plastic. For the first time in my life, I didn't want to go in the water because the garbage was like five and a half feet. The pollution created by us.

And with this in my mind, I decided to clean the beach. And I told myself it would be difficult for a single man to do it, so I said, why not take this journey to others.

If this huge ocean is a problem, we'll have to rise up in numbers. When you have a complicated problem, sometimes solutions are simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: For more go to CNNheroes.com.

Finally, a picture of power sends the Internet into a frenzy.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Instead of just rolling her eyes, Nancy Pelosi is trying to turn the tables on President Trump, using his own photo. He tweeted it with the caption "Nervous Nancy's unhinged meltdown."

At a White House meeting, democratic leaders walked out on and when they walked out, she said he was the one who had --

[17:55:06]

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA): The meltdown, sad to say.

MOOS: Well, now the Internet is melting down after the speaker decided to use President Trump's photo as the cover on her Twitter account.

On what was National Boss's Day, fans said Speaker Pelosi was owning Trump like a boss. Pointing her finger, she was depicted shooting rays that ignited the president.

The photo was annotated, Pelosi wearing a crown, President Trump a jester's hat.

The image now joins us classic Pelosi moments like the time she clapped at the president --

(APPLAUSE)

MOOS: -- and put on shades exiting another testy White House meeting. Her legend is looming large.

Pelosi had a couple of guesses when asked what was happening at the moment the photo was snapped.

PELOSI: I think I was excusing myself from the room. I was probably saying, all roads lead to Putin.

MOOS: She argued with the president saying his decision to withdraw from Syria leads a void the Russians could fill.

(on camera): But people aren't just analyzing the images of Speaker Pelosi and President Trump.

(voice-over): They were struck by the body language of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a State Department official, and Republican Congressman Steve Scalise.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, CO-HOST, MORNING JOE: Hanging their heads in shame.

MOOS: "Chagrin and bearing it," read one caption.

President Trump may call her Nervous Nancy, but on Thursday she called him.

PELOSI: Whatchamacallit.

MOOS That's President whatchamacallit, Madame Speaker,

Jeanne Moos, CNN --

PELOSI: It was a meltdown, sad to say.

MOOS: -- New York.

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": It's right there.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I'm Ana Cabrera.

"S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED" is next.

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