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THE BRIEF WITH BIANCA NOBILO
Anger Over Income Inequality Brings Nation To Brink; Eight Days Of Anti-Government Protests, No End In Sight; Judge Approves House Request To See Unredacted Mueller Report; Indonesia Blames Boeing, FAA, Pilots For Lion Air Crash; Satellite Captures Images Of Atmospheric Gravity Waves. Aired 5-5:30p ET
Aired October 25, 2019 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --and the top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee Congressman Mac Thornberry you can see that at 9 and noon
eastern. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Have a fantastic and meaningful weekend. I'll see you Sunday morning.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST, THE BRIEF: A season of discontent protesters from Beirut to Santiago step up demands for change. New arrests in the
investigation of dozens of people found dead in a truck in Southeastern England and Boeing under pressure Indonesian investigators say design flaws
in the plane contributed to the deadly Lion Air crash.
Welcome all of you to CNN Newsroom. I'm Robyn Curnow. Great to have you with us this hour. Our top story police in the UK have arrested a fourth
person in connection with the deaths of 39 people found in a shipping container on Wednesday. Some Vietnamese families are saying they're
concerned their loves ones are among the dead.
Vietnam's Embassy in London is working with British police to determine the victim's nationalities. Police don't know whether they are Chinese or
Vietnamese. Well, our Scott McLean is in Northern Ireland where the truck involved in this incident began its journey. Scott?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Essex police had said yesterday they believed that all 39 victims were of Chinese origin. They now say that it's
a developing picture with respect to nationality. We know that officials from Vietnamese Embassy in London are working with local authorities after
getting word from concerned relatives back in Vietnam.
One of those is a father concerned about his daughter, and that she may be amongst the dead. That daughter's brother shared text messages on Facebook
that she had sent her family on Tuesday "They read, I'm sorry, mom, my path to abroad doesn't succeed". Mom, I love you so much. I'm dying because I
can't breathe. She then says where she's from in Vietnam, presumably to help investigators identify her and then she says, I am sorry, mom.
Autopsies began today. Police warns, though, that could be a very lengthy process. Police also announced they arrested three people in the case, two
in Northern England one at a metro London area airport. All three of them were picked up on suspicion of conspiracy to traffic people and
manslaughter. Meanwhile, the 25-year-old driver of that truck is still in police custody.
He's from here in Northern Ireland. We went by his parent's house today. Some of his neighbors stressed to us that he is innocent until proven
guilty. We also tracked down the company that owns the container or the trailer today. No one on that property wanted to speak with us, but they
did refer us to a lawyer who would not say who rented it out at the time that those bodies were found.
But that lawyer did say that it's equipped with a GPS tracking system and that data has been turned over the police. Scott McLean, CNN, Armagh,
CURNOW: Thanks to Scott for that. We'll have a guest in just a moment on that issue. Meanwhile we are also watching the waves of global protests
that have rocked nations all over the world this week showing no sign of letting up. Demonstrations in Iraq became deadly violent on Friday where
now at least 30 people were killed dead, 2300 injured, it happened when police tried to break up protests demanding government action on
unemployment and corruption.
In Santiago Chile has been brought to a complete stand still. These are live pictures you're looking at as anger over income inequality has brought
thousands of people into the streets. You can certainly see the numbers there. 19 people, though, have died so far. The UN says it's sending a
special mission to investigate allegations of human rights abuses. And the UN Secretary General is calling for all protesters and governments to find
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: And I call on protesters to follow the examples of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. and other
champions of nonviolent change. There can be no excuse for violence from any quarter. Above all, I urge readers everywhere to listen to the real
problems of real people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: CNN is covering this from all angles. Ben Wedeman is - has been covering for a week anti-government protests in Beirut but first we go to
Matt Rivers in Santiago, Chile. Matt?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Robyn, yes it's been a fascinating week here in Chile and also a tragic week given the fact that 19 people have
lost their lives as a result of these protests. We are seeing yet another day of protests here in Santiago with hundreds of thousands of people
currently out on the streets.
I'm on the phone right now because we can't actually get enough band width to get a live shot. That shows you just how many people are packed into the
street in a very tight area, hundreds of thousands at this point.
RIVERS: And right now it is largely people. Witnessing a lot of people peacefully marching, chanting, singing, however these have gotten violent
before over the past seven days and we did see that sporadically earlier today. We were rolling now when one protester threw a brick at some
military police officers that were there.
And they responded and could be escalating with rubber bullets being fired into crowds a people who are definitely not prepared for it. Some of the
protesters didn't know that other protesters were throwing bricks that I got quite chaotic there and this shows you how quickly these things can
escalate here on the ground.
We saw several people get hit by rubber bullets we saw some police officers get hit by bricks. So it is violent here in Chile in certain places but it
doesn't take away from what they are all upset about here, they are upset over what they say in rich getting rich in Chile. Decades of policies that
have benefitted the wealthy and have left the middle and lower classes behind.
So the argument goes. They would like reform - things like lower health care cost, things like funding further public education programs. That's
what people are out on the streets here for. They do expect more violence throughout the night sporadically but the message overall from protesters
is that despite the government saying they want to fix things and make economic reforms and having announced a few measures to that end,
protesters are still not ready to back down.
CURNOW: As we say, there have been protests a number of them across the world this week often on these pocketbook issues that affect ordinary
people. They just basically crack. But what about the people who are there right now? Give me some sense of the demographics. I know a lot of youth
have been angry. Who are you seeing on the streets?
RIVERS: I think the further you get towards the center of these protests, it's generally has been younger the protesters get. The protests clearly
have been driven - the energy comes from students and younger people the underemployed if not the unemployed and students. However I'm standing on
the street right now and I see right in front of me two toddlers with their parents also walking past in a much calmer area of the protest.
So I think overall you do see younger people here, without question, but there is definitely representation from people who are older and also
younger than students. There is clear frustration amongst a broad section of Chilean society with governmental policies.
Even if there's not an even demographic split on the streets here, I think the fact that you are seeing middle aged people bringing their kids out
here trying to state what the peaceful side of things it shows you even if students make up the majority of the protesters there's sympathy among
those who aren't ready to face-off against police with batons and tear gas.
CURNOW: Yes. And when you say these folks have fed up and we can certainly see from the images there are a lot of them. And we'll continue to monitor
these live pictures that we are getting from Santiago in Chile throughout the coming hours. Matt Rivers on the ground, great to have you there thanks
so much, Matt.
I want to take you now to Lebanon, another of the nations grip by days of clashes between anti-government demonstrators and police. But today there
was a new twist as Hezbollah and its supporters opened a new front in this battle for the streets. CNN's Ben Wedeman was there and he found this
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With Lebanese National Anthem in the back Hezbollah supporters clashed with anti-government protesters the police
caught in the middle. All of us for the nation go the anthem as refrain, for glory and the flag.
Tensions have been mounting since the protests broke out. The protesters' denunciations of the entire political class included sometimes explicitly
the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. We are against the entire corrupt system this Hezbollah supporter tells me - except for Syed Hassan
No one should come near him. He's not a thief. Moments later, Nasrllah warned on national television that the current crisis threatens to open up
a political vacuum that could lead to chaos and eventually civil war. He told his supporters to leave the protests, which they did, immediately,
chased by anti-government demonstrators and the police.
These clashes show they're not all Lebanese are united in their demands of the government and that this protest movement, which started peacefully,
may not remain so. People blocked the highway north of Beirut as part of the ongoing general strike, frustrated with leaders deaf to their demands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're sitting on another planet, maybe mars or the moon he says.
After eight days of people protesting in the streets day and night, they say, come, tell us your demands. After eight days they haven't already
heard our demands, then bye-bye.
WEDEMAN: Some are trying to find a way forward. Hundreds gather in a cinema that was under construction when the Lebanese Civil War broke out in 1975
and has been an empty shell ever since. They're listening to Charbel Nahas a Former Government Minister with a reputation for integrity and
effectiveness, explaining the need for an immediate transfer of power to an emergency transitional government. The ruling class, he later explains, has
CHARBEL NAHAS, "CITIZENS IN A STATE" PARTY: The system has fallen not because of the protests. The protests came after the system failed. The
system meaning the structure that can deal with realities.
WEDEMAN: And the realities of Lebanon are becoming ever more complicated and dangerous. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Beirut.
CURNOW: Great report there. Thanks to Ben and his team. So let's return now to our top story, the investigation into the deaths of 39 people found in a
truck in the UK. Now the tragedy is certainly shedding light on the risks undocumented migrants face when they're traveling.
For some prospective let's got to Natalia Banulescu-Bogdan she joins me now, she is the Associate Director of Migration Policy Institute
International Program. Great to have you on the show. There are still a lot of details we do not know about this particular incident. From what we do
know, what do you make of it?
NATALIA BANULESCU-BOGDAN, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMME, MIGRATION POLICY INSTITUTION: Thank you so much for having me. I think this
really shows the tragic consequences of the fact that there is such an enormous desire around the world, really, for people to seek out better
circumstances for themselves and their families. And there just aren't that many legal routes to take them there. That creates a large market for human
CURNOW: My question is, do we know yes, if this is human smuggling or human trafficking? And what is the difference?
BOGDAN: It's a great question. We often treat those two categories as though there's a very bright line between them, but actually I think we
need to think about a vast gray area between the two. Human smuggling is generally thought of as a transactional relationship entered into
Basically people are paying a smuggler to get them from point "A," to point "B." Human trafficking is a coerced relationship with slave like
conditions. But even if somebody engaged the services of a smuggler willingly that relationship could turn coercive along the route. Generally
these routes involve multiple segments.
You have people traveling by air, land, and sea. They could be switching from smuggler to smuggler. It's very likely that at some point, the
relationship resembled more human trafficking.
CURNOW: That's interesting. Also, what do you make of the 39 people who died? I know the UK police have pulled back from their initial statement
saying they were all Chinese. We know that there have been concerns from the Vietnamese government, concerns that there are some Vietnamese citizens
What do you make about these smuggling or trading routes, illegal migration routes in term of Asia and the UK?
BOGDAN: Sure. I mean, it does seem surprising to a lot of people that migrants from Asia, China, would travel this very long distance, but
actually there are thousands of Chinese migrants that are smuggled into the EU every year. I think the EU an estimated almost 36,000 per year.
People are generally seeking better economic opportunities and they're willing to, you know, put they in harm's way to make that happen,
CURNOW: Great to have you on the show. Appreciate your perspective and your expertise. Natalia thanks so much.
BOGDAN: Thank you.
CURNOW: Now, EU members are holding off on voting on a Brexit delay until next week, although they agreed in principle to an extension on Friday. It
comes as Britain's Prime Minster Boris Johnson pushes for a general election. That vote is set for Monday, but he needs the opposition Labour
Party Jeremy Corbyn to agree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What I'm saying to the Labour Party, to Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, is that they have the opportunity
now to get this thing done. Time for Corbyn, man up. Let's have an election on December 12th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well, Corbyn says he may agree to an election only if a no-deal Brexit is off the table. If the vote takes place before Mr. Johnson's
proposed election date.
CURNOW: Well, still to come here on CNN, Boeing is under pressure. Investigators say design flows in Boeing's 737 Max planes contributed to
the deadly Lion Air crash. We'll talk about that and then a big legal victory for U.S. lawmakers investigating President Donald Trump. We'll tell
you about a court ruling that has just been handed down. It might be a game changer. That's what some folks are saying. That is ahead.
CURNOW: Welcome back, I'm Robyn Curnow. I want to take you through big development in the impeachment inquiry of U.S. President Donald Trump. A
judge has just ruled that all material that was blacked out of the Mueller report must be turned over to congressional investigators by next week.
She not only determined that the impeachment inquiry is valid but that whole - withholding this information could lead to "Possible injustice".
Well, let's bring in our Senior Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju for more on all of this. Manu, I'm glad you are here to unpack this. What is
this decision and how important is it?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's very significant. Not just the fact that we'll get the un-redacted portions of the Mueller
report that many seems to be the less significant part of this decision. What is very significant is the fact that the judge firmly sided that the
impeachment inquiry that is being conducted by the House Democrats is legal.
Now, that is opposite of what the White House has been arguing, what the U.S. Justice Department had been arguing that it's invalid illegitimate
inquiry in part because the U.S. House has not voted to authorize that probe. The Democrats have said there's no need to have a vote in the House
to make it a formal impeachment inquiry.
There's nothing that requires them to do so, but that's been part of the argument. The White House has cited the lack of vote, what they're calling
an invalid inquiry to not comply with the range of requests that Democrats have issued in recent weeks. And what the judge does in this ruling says
clearly that this is a legitimate impeachment inquiry that is legal and that the Congress essentially has broad latitude to determine how best to
carry out its impeachment probe.
Now, what this lawsuit initially was to get information related to the Mueller report, information about episodes of obstruction of justice and
allegedly the President of the United States was involved with thwarting that investigation into him and his campaign.
But since they launched this lawsuit, the impeachment inquiry here in the U.S. has shifted and set focus now on the Ukraine matter and the efforts by
the President to withhold Ukraine aid, hundreds of millions of dollars, in exchange for a push for Ukraine to investigate matters that could help his
RAJU: So nevertheless, this judge doesn't really seem to care what they're looking into. Just saying they're conducting an impeachment inquiry, so
they deserve this information. Robyn.
CURNOW: Now it's 20 past 5:00 here in the U.S. and based on your experience of reporting particularly during the Mueller report days, news often drops
around this time on a Friday night. But as we look toward the week, we've got this now, new information in the last hour or so. What is going to be
the highlight? What should people look out for next week? Is the name John Bolton going to be said a lot?
RAJU: Well, he is not expected to come next week, but there are talks for John Bolton the Former National Security Adviser for the President to come
before this Committee. Of course he could be a key witness because according to sworn testimony from other witnesses he raised significant
concerns about the withholding of Ukrainian aid.
It was critical of the role that Rudy Giuliani the President's Personal Attorney played in trying to push Ukraine to open those investigations into
the Bidens and the President himself - those investigations as well. In addition to this next week look for a key witness to come on Thursday.
That's Tim Morrison who is a Senior White House Official on the National Security Council.
Someone who was referenced throughout testimony earlier this week of the President's top diplomat from Ukraine Bill Taylor. In Taylor's testimony he
cites Morrison about 15 times and in Taylor's testimony he said that he was told that the President wanted to Ukrainian aid withheld for those
political investigations and we are told from multiple sources that he'll corroborate key elements of Taylor's testimony so that could also add more
fuel to the impeachment push.
CURNOW: Fascinating. Thanks so much. Manu Raju, appreciate it. So Boeing is promising to address safety recommendations as Indonesia makes its final
report on last year's fatal crash of a Lion Air flight. We know that Indonesian investigators are blaming the crash on Boeing, U.S. Aviation
Authorities as well as areas by flight crews.
The lead investigator is calling this new type of accident due to computerized aircraft. All 189 people on board died when the Lion Air
flight plunged into the Java Sea roughly a year ago. The Lion Air crash and an incident with Ethiopian Airlines let the grounding of all Boeing 737 Max
jets worldwide, still in effect today. I spoke with Richard Quest about Boeing and the Lion Air crash a short time ago.
CURNOW: A lot of people, Richard, have been called out in this report. What do you make of it?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I think what it shows is the complexity of today's aviation. When something goes wrong its way too simple to say,
they are at fault. This happened. Those people are to blame. The report though does get some general strands which we can take.
Firstly, Boeing and the regulator, the FAA, they failed miserably in their duty in the way they designed MCAS, this piece of software designed to
prevent a plane from stalling by pushing down the nose. They made it too powerful they made it too difficult for pilots to use. They didn't even
tell pilots it was there in the first place and the consequences, when it actually activated.
So Boeing and the FAA take a larger part of the blame, but the airline too because of the way they bought spare parts, the way they trained their
crew. The crew itself, I don't blame them as such, never would, but they do bear responsibility. The first officer flying that plane was legally and
technically qualified but he did not have the airmanship skills to handle that plane in those circumstances.
CURNOW: So what next? How seriously is this report going to be taken? And will Boeing take it seriously as well more importantly?
QUEST: Yes, I think there are two aspects in which it gets taken very seriously. The first is the most immediate, getting Boeing 737 back in the
air. And Boeing has put forward three or four software changes to MCAS which will do the trick. It will remedy the problem. No longer will a pilot
never physically be able to have the strength to pull back to counter these forces.
So they've sorted that out. The other very thing that they have been - that is too big in many ways for the industry to get hold of, but everybody
knows they must - are planes becoming too complicated for the average pilot to fly? Have they now reached such a level of sophistication of systems
management and computerization that the average pilot simply gets overwhelmed?
Now, if that is the case, then the industry needs to determine what can be taken off the plate. What can be automated, what should never be put in
there in the first place?
CURNOW: Richard Quest there. So just ahead on CNN Newsroom, wildfire emergencies are declared across California, and residents brace for a
weekend of dangerous fire conditions. We have that and these stunning images next.
CURNOW: Fast moving wildfires have forced thousands of people from their homes in California. The Governor has declared emergencies in both the Los
Angeles area and in parts of Wine Country North of San Francisco. Residents are also coping with intermittent blackouts. Nearly 850,000 people could be
without power this weekend. The state's largest utility intentionally shut off power in some areas to prevent equipment from sparking wildfires. We
know that millions under a fire weather watch for the weekend.
And before we go, want to take a look at this natural phenomenon that really gets captured on camera. Take a look at this. They are called
atmospheric gravity waves. You can see the waves spreading out from the coast of Western Australia. The clouds then ripple out across the Indian
Ocean. It was all triggered by thunderstorms cold air that got pushed out created this effect.
Scientists say it's the same mechanism as when you throw a rock into a pool of water. Thank you for watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Robyn Curnow. "World
Sport" is next. I'll be back with more news in half an hour.