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ISIS Leader Believed to Have Been Killed in U.S. Raid; Politicians and Protesters Paralyzed in Lebanon. Aired 11a-12:00p ET
Aired October 27, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last night, the United States brought the world's number one terrorist leader to justice. Abu
Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead. He was the founder and leader of ISIS, the most ruthless and violent terror organization anywhere in the world.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the world's most formidable terrorist leader, dead, just before we came on air. The
American president letting the worked know the man who built ISIS killed in a military raid that Donald Trump described watching as like being out of a
movie.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson, live with you tonight from Beirut. We are here in the middle of what is surely another
extraordinary moment even in the exceptionally messy and brutal past of this country, Lebanon. You can probably hear the noise. There has been a
continuous soundtrack.
It is just coming back again to what protesters here hope will be their revolution. We'll get you a lot more on that in the hours ahead.
We do though as I said have major breaking news this morning. President Trump confirming the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, describing
that he died whimpering, crying and screaming all the way, holed up at the back of an underground tunnel, taking three children with him.
That, amid a complicated geopolitical invasion by Turkey into northern Syria, one that came after the president pulled almost all U.S. troops out
of the area. Well, the U.S. president declaring the leader of ISIS is now dead.
A couple of hours ago, Donald Trump explained to the world how the operation unfolded in northwest Syria and how on Saturday evening Trump and
top national security officials watched from the Situation Room at the White House as the operation unfolded.
It was an operation, he said, that was a top national security priority of his administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Last night, the United States brought the world's number one terrorist leader to justice. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead. He was the
founder and leader of ISIS, the most ruthless and violent terror organization anywhere in the world.
The United States has been searching for al-Baghdadi for many years. Capturing or killing al-Baghdadi has been the top national security
priority of my administration. U.S. Special Operations Forces executed a dangerous and daring nighttime raid in northwestern Syria and accomplished
their mission in grand style.
The U.S. personnel were incredible. I got to watch much of it. No personnel were lost in the operation. While a large number of al-
Baghdadi's fighters and companions were killed with him, he died after running into a dead-end tunnel, whimpering and crying and screaming all the
way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We can bring you CNN's unmatched reporting on all of that. Connecting you out on this story, Nick Paton Walsh is in northern Iraq with
what al-Baghdadi's death means for ISIS. Sam Kiley is near the site of the raid at the Syria-Turkey border. Kristen Holmes is at the White House.
Ryan Browne covers the Pentagon.
And with me, my colleague, Ben Wedeman, CNN's senior international correspondent, who earlier this year spent 50 days in Eastern Syria
witnessing the last guard of the ISIS caliphate.
As you reflect on that, what do you make this stunning news?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly significant, Becky, this was the man who led the organization that at one
point ruled an area the size of Great Britain with more than 12 million people.
I remember being in Baghdad when ISIS was at the gates of the city. Now we have seen the caliphate is destroyed and he is dead, so certainly
definitely significant. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that ISIS as an organization is far from over. It operates in Afghanistan, in
the Philippines.
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WEDEMAN: According to a report by the inspector general that the Pentagon put out this August, there are between 14,000 and 18,000 ISIS fighters on
the loose in Syria and Iraq. In addition, they are in the Egypt Sinai Peninsula, in West Africa and Libya. Yes, it has been decapitated as an
organization but it is still very much out there and very dangerous.
ANDERSON: I want to get more on the details of the operation. I have got to say the U.S. president detailing quite a lot of what was a secret
operation to the news gathered -- the press gathered at the White House earlier on today.
But what we do know, and I want you to speak to, is where al-Baghdadi was killed.
What was he doing in Idlib, in northwestern Syria?
WEDEMAN: Yes, that's the big question. Idlib is controlled by an affiliate of al Qaeda. And it is normally not friendly territory for him,
even though fundamentally they share very similar ideologies, so it is not at all clear.
Actually back, I think it was on the 24th of March, the SDF forces commander said they believed that after the fall the last pocket of ISIS in
Eastern Syria, that al-Baghdadi had gone to Idlib.
Of course, it is a very difficult place to operate on the ground and to know these things. But certainly that was a hint that perhaps he was going
in that direction. How he got there, what sort of connections he used to get there, are unclear. I am sure the details will emerge shortly. But
the whole thing is quite a whirlwind of information.
And President Trump actually volunteered quite a good deal of information with some graphic, you know, crying, whimpering and screaming, that's a
detail that was interesting. But we saw Mark Esper speaking with Jake Tapper just a while ago giving very little in the way of information
compared to President Trump, who clearly wants to tell these things but has been told to keep the details under wraps.
ANDERSON: Well, it was in his White House news conference detailing the raid that Donald Trump said the ISIS leader died like a coward. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He died after running into a dead-end tunnel whimpering and crying and screaming all the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Ryan Browne is at the Pentagon.
As Ben and I were discussing we heard quite a lot from the president about the details of this operation. Break it down for us, if you will.
RYAN BROWNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure thing, Becky. This operation was a very complex operation. It started off with the Central Intelligence
Agency, the CIA, with an intense intelligence effort. They were able to discover enough intelligence that gave them a certain degree of confidence
that al-Baghdadi was, in fact, hiding out in Idlib, an area that, as Ben mentioned, is not typical ISIS territory.
There are rival groups there. President Trump suggested today he might have been there in an effort to recruit new allies to help make ISIS
resurgence, comeback, if you will.
With that intelligence the military was then tasked with conducting a very dangerous operation. The U.S. military is in Syria; however, they are far
from where this operation took place. President Trump referencing a 1:10 helicopter flight, eight U.S. military helicopters flying over Syrian
airspace that is mostly controlled by Russia and the Syrian regime, countries that are not necessarily friendly with the United States. So
President Trump going out of his way to thank Russia and the Syrian regime even for not shooting down U.S. helicopters in flight, for being willing to
allow the helicopters to pass.
And so that operation, then they spent -- they got on the ground. Al- Baghdadi took refuge in a tunnel with a suicide vest. Several opposition forces, ISIS fighters were killed in a firefight on the ground.
The Special Operations Forces, elite commandos, had a dog with them, the dog pursued al-Baghdadi into the tunnel and he apparently killed himself
and three of his children rather than be captured with a suicide vest. Then the forces spent close to two hours verifying his identity via a DNA
test in the field.
They collected intelligence, phones and computers, that could help exploit that intelligence, lead to future operations, if you will, perhaps. Again
a very complex operation in not friendly territory surrounded by hostile actors.
You have rebel groups aligned with al Qaeda nearby, Turkish Armed Forces, a risk operation which is why it required President Trump's sign-off. But it
felt good with the CIA's intelligence. They felt like he was there and that they could send the Delta Force in. Other than two U.S. officers
receiving minor injuries, they have in fact returned to duty.
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BROWNE: Other than that, a successful military operation.
ANDERSON: Let's get to the ground. Sam Kiley north of the Syrian border in Turkey.
We heard the president thanking the Russians for support in this. We also heard him suggest that he had let the Turks know what was going on, while
it seems because there was some -- there was a flight or that these flights were going over Turkish airspace.
We also heard from the general commander of the Syrian Democratic Forces, saying that the operation targeting al-Baghdadi began five months ago.
Mazloum Abdi, the commander in chief of the Kurdish-led forces in Syria tweeted, "There has been joint intel cooperation on the ground and accurate
monitoring until we achieved a joint operation to kill al-Baghdadi. Thanks to everybody who participated in this great mission."
Sam, what did you make of what we have learned of the details of this operation, who acted in support, who provided either information or
intelligence and who may have been left out of the details of this operation?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDE4NT: Well, I think if we take all of the claims of involvement -- and this was in terms of an
intelligence-gathering operation, very much a joint effort. We have had similar claims of involvement in terms of identification of the location or
locations that were being used by al-Baghdadi in Idlib from, as you say, the Syrian Democratic Forces.
You also have them from the military in Baghdad, the Iraqi government itself. And, of course, the Turks are saying they were aware about 48
hours before this operation of al-Baghdadi's location and that they, alongside, according to Mr. Trump, the Russians, even the Syrians, were all
contacted to a lesser or greater degree in order to avoid a conflict over this very, very complex battle space and above all in the airspace.
You have got Russian planes, Syrian planes, Turkish planes, already flying in a very crowded airspace. And, of course, the coalition planes have been
up for several years now in the hunt and in an effort to destroy the so- called Islamic State.
Obviously the movement of helicopters, slow moving aircraft at a low level through this airspace could be highly incendiary if there weren't warnings
given out by the president, who is grateful for it. So in that context, a group effort.
U.S. also saying on the grounds that a 100 percent American operation. It was cryptic. They did say there were 11 children rescued or captured from
the base that al-Baghdadi was using, a house or compound. They say only that they have been handed over to somebody that the U.S. trusted. He
wouldn't be drawn on that.
Nor would he be drawn on what unit was participating in this. Ryan stating it was Delta Force. We don't know still where the operation was launched
from. There are a number of possible locations, including Turkey, northern Iraq and indeed Iraq proper, if you like.
We don't know where -- yet where those details are going to come from or be confirmed. What we have also learned I think -- and this is a key element
really to perhaps why this was so important -- is that Donald Trump suggested that ISIS was trying to be reformed, perhaps using the al Qaeda
ideology there and that he was found with a good deal of money, Becky.
ANDERSON: Straight off the back of President Trump's announcement, U.S. Secretary of Defense Mark Esper spoke to my colleague, Jake Tapper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ESPER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The operation was conducted last night. The president approved a raid onto the target. The aim was to
capture Abu Baker al-Baghdadi and if we couldn't capture him, then, of course, we were going to kill him.
Like I said, the raid was successful. We pulled our troops out. We had two minor casualties, two minor injuries to our soldiers, but a very
successful, flawless raid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Bring in Nick Paton Walsh here.
Northern Iraq, one of the areas that this operation could have been launched from. Until we receive further detail, there will be much
speculation as to exactly what happened during this raid, how it started, where it was launched from and how it was conducted. Nick.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, Donald Trump gave away a lot in his speech. He referred to how they
had come in and out the same way, 1:10 flight time to what he referred to as a port. Irbil where I am standing isn't a port and is a little more by
helicopter than an hour and 10 minutes. We are looking probably more toward the Mediterranean possibly.
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WALSH: But that's just one of the issues here, exactly how much Trump said that may be accurate and how much he should or shouldn't have said. You
have to bear in mind to a couple of other things that he did let go of during that speech.
The fact that he had watched it himself, he referred to it as being like a movie. And also went on to talk about how there had been during that
particular attack a series of tunnels, one of which was a dead-end. You heard about the results of that there.
But a moment I think with Donald Trump continually used the first person plural there, referring to we, but also at times in awe at what seemed to
be happening around him, a symbolic moment one which he said he has been looking for Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi for three years himself, but at times,
twice actually, didn't pronounce his name correctly.
Giving the sense that this wasn't something on his lips too often during his administration, the death of al-Baghdadi a startling moment, seismic
certainly for the terror group itself, that some say will continue to operate in disparate ways.
But the author of the ideology is now dead. Here's something of what his life and possibly his death means.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (voice-over): His face in public only once and even then in the presence of a small number. This is the moment at Friday prayers in a
freshly conquered Mosul Abu Baker al-Baghdadi, creator of one of the most successful and inhuman terrorist networks in history chose to reveal
himself.
Yet, before the infamy at this pulpit, he spent a decade rising quietly. A PhD student said to like football, these Pentagon records show, his capture
by U.S. forces in 2004 near Fallujah, his hometown and held for years as a civilian internee at U.S. Camp Bucca. It was there, one expert who knew
him that he turned.
HISHAM HASHIMI, ISIS EXPERT (through translator): Al-Baghdadi was not cruel or radical at the time. He just wanted to fight the Americans.
However, he leaned toward sectarian violence in Bucca at a school, where he met foreigners and some Iraqis who filled his head with such ideas.
WALSH (voice-over): The officer in charge of the camp remembers the last words of the man they released.
KENNETH KING, FORMER COMMANDER, CAMP BUCCA: As he was leaving -- and he knew my unit was from Long Island, New York -- he looked over toward us and
as he left, he said, "See you guys in New York."
Here we are a few years hence and I look at those words in a little bit of a different context right now.
WALSH (voice-over): Then there is silence, a long stretch in the shadows of Iraq's savage civil war before hitting the al Qaeda sanctions list in
June 2011. Here as Abu Du'a, he led the Islamic State of Iraq, the al Qaeda franchise in Iraq, whose previous leader, Zarqawi, the U.S. killed.
But as the U.S. left Iraq and the Arab Spring fell apart, the increasingly sectarian violence of Syria's civil war became a magnet for the
bloodthirsty. Baghdadi, silently behind an ISIS brutality so extreme even al Qaeda disowned it, leading the extremist groups to split in February of
2014 and months later, the group, to show its fighters breaking the borders of Syria and Iraq, declaring their caliphate.
With Baghdadi at its helm, claiming direct lineage from the Prophet Muhammad, the new caliph. This was Baghdadi's moment, the pinnacle of
years of calculation and ISIS rose fast.
Then came the attack on and occupation of Mosul. The atrocities against the Yazidis in Mt. Sinjar, the beheadings of Western hostages, the
besieging of Kobane, horrors marked by an obscene worship of violence.
WALSH: In all these, Baghdadi is invisible, yet doubtless the key decision-maker. But one of the more terrifying things about the ISIS he
helped create is not its obsession with gruesomely videoing acts of murder but, instead, its harnessing of social media to create a global franchise
amongst people it had often never met -- in Libya, Afghanistan, Paris, Brussels, atrocities committed by people who were attracted to ISIS' brand
to commit atrocities and even die for it.
WALSH (voice-over): But in November 2014, rumors of an airstrike hitting him and then, within a week, a recording of his florid speech.
ABU BAKER AL-BAGHDADI, ISIS LEADER: (Speaking Arabic).
WALSH (voice-over): It became a pattern. No public appearances mixed with randomly released audio statements. U.S. officials told CNN that they
believe he was injured in May 2017 and had to take five months away from his leadership duties as a result.
Yet from that moment onwards, what was left of ISIS' so-called caliphate collapsed in on itself. Mosul, freed from their grip in July, Raqqa that
October.
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WALSH (voice-over): ISIS reduced to a tiny slip of land on the Iraqi and Syrian border and an idea, infectious, hateful, still capable of inspiring
barbaric insanity, yet now without its figurehead, a man willing to lead his followers to death but only from the shadows.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Kristen Holmes is at the White House.
An hour or so ago Donald Trump announcing to the world that the world's most wanted terrorist leader is dead, killed in a U.S. special operation in
a tunnel near Idlib in northwestern Syria.
The president, Kristen, speaking at length through what was about an hour's worth of press conference at the White House on Sunday morning. He had,
though, tweeted some hours before, alluding to something big that had happened.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Becky. Just to give you a little bit of context here, he spoke for roughly an hour. By comparison,
when Obama made his announcement about bin Laden, it was a nine-minute statement.
Giving you context here, insight into how long this was. Of course you just played that tweet. That's what we saw last night. I want to walk up
the steps to when he actually tweeted something big just happened. We are learning more and more about the details, a lot of it coming from President
Trump.
But even more of it comes from vice president Pence, who just sat down for an interview. He laid out the timeline saying that earlier in the week
they had gotten a heads-up from the military, the Special Forces, the CIA, that al-Baghdadi was in this location, President Trump telling them to
present some options.
He was presented with options on Friday morning. By Saturday morning, he had approved and they were watching -- after he played golf, obviously, we
saw him do that. They were watching this unfold in real time from the Situation Room. Saying it lasted about two hours.
Now he says that he tweeted something big just happened immediately after he knew that those American troops were back -- were safe after their long
flight back, but again lots of detail here.
I want to flag again to you, this is very unprecedented to hear this kind of level of detail. He mentioned at one point there were eight helicopters
coming in to get this on a first round of the president directly talking about a mission, again, really unprecedented information.
ANDERSON: All right, Kristen is at the White House. I have Ben Wedeman with me here. He's staying with me throughout this hour, just before we do
go to a break.
Just had news that the Russian military is now questioning the U.S. account of the raid that killed the ISIS leader. The Russian military Sunday
questioning the official accounts, saying it was not aware of any U.S. military operations in the region.
Going on to say that al-Baghdadi's death, quote, "has absolutely no operational significance on the situation in Syria or on the actions of the
remaining terrorists in Idlib."
We will discuss that as we move through this hour.
For the time being, you are live with us from Beirut in Lebanon, a country engulfed by anti-corruption protests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I am here staying in the streets demanding my rights.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Enough to bring down the government. That is next.
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ANDERSON: Remarkable scenes anywhere but in Lebanon, a country still scarred with division from a horrendous civil war 30 years ago, almost
unprecedented.
An ambitious human chain across the country, a show of unity, demonstrators joining hands, connecting the country from the north to the south on what
is now the 11th day of paralyzing protests, one where you often hear, "For our revolution." It is a quote you can hear right behind me now right here
in Beirut's Market Square, where anti-corruption protests continue to engulf the nation and this square just beyond me here. You can hear the
soundtrack, music, there is still a celebratory atmosphere. These are still spontaneous protests.
There have been clashes, Lebanon now a country in paralysis and at a political crossroads. Neither the political leaders nor the people it
seems are willing to budge. It comes amid a season of discontent, with protests raging in countless countries across the world, not least here in
this very region.
We have seen protests in Egypt. We currently see what are sadly, deadly protests in Baghdad, in Iraq. Out senior international correspondent based
here in Beirut is Ben Wedeman. He has been covering this turbulence as it has unfolded and joins me now.
As I say, we are well into week two if. The government thought that by now this would be business as usual, they were wrong.
WEDEMAN: No business as usual. Banks are closed. Banks have been closed now for nine days. They will be closed tomorrow as well. The country is
at a standstill.
Now this has been brewing for quite some time. I live here. Every single day I speak to Lebanese, not the kinds you meet in bars and whatnot but
ordinary hard working Lebanese people, who have been telling me day after day things are getting tougher and tougher and tougher.
All of a sudden we saw these protests break out sparked by the WhatsApp tax, 20 cents per day for WhatsApp calls. Really it is much, much deeper
than that. Now we are seeing these protests not just in Beirut, all over the country.
It is important to point out these are leaderless protests. There is nobody sort of organizing all of that. Now for almost a week, there is a
general strike which is bringing this country to a total standstill.
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WEDEMAN (voice-over): The people want to topple the regime, they chant, and blocking roads, bringing Lebanon to a standstill, is how they hope to
achieve it.
The road they are shutting down is on what used to be known as the green line, which split Beirut during the 15-year Lebanese civil war. Today's
uprising is, among other things, against the sectarian divisions that fueled the civil war and remain the basis of Lebanese politics today. A
medical student, Muhammad Mazloum, wants the old system to go.
MUHAMMAD MAZLOUM, MEDICAL STUDENT AND PROTESTER: We are trying to move the whole political class that's been ruling us for 30, 40 years. They caused
the civil war. They caused corruption that cannot be described in any way.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Eventually the police try to remove the protesters using persuasion rather than brute force.
WEDEMAN: The security forces have been given orders to remove all the people and things blocking the road. And that has happened in most of the
country but clearly not everywhere.
[11:30:00]
WEDEMAN (voice-over): In the end, they gave up. For now.
"Peaceful, peaceful," this protester shouts. "This revolution is peaceful."
It wasn't peaceful everywhere, however. In the northern city of Tripoli, demonstrators clashed with the army, which fired tear gas and rubber
bullets as well as live ammunition in the air, according to a statement from the army. Several people were injured.
Back in Beirut, the protesters moved to block the so-called Ring Road, a major artery in the city. These tactics may or may not bring down the
government but they are definitely making life difficult for some although they are letting vital traffic through.
Ali al-Wed (ph) lives nearby and tells the protesters to be flexible.
"Pregnant women need to get to hospital," he says. "My wife gave birth three days ago and I have come to be with you but people need to get to
their homes."
For now, Lebanon remains paralyzed. Neither the political leaders, nor the protesters, are budging.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: What's interesting about these protests, Becky, is that we are seeing people really tired of the confessional system that has been the
reality here since 1943, the so-called national pact, the divided power between the various sects here.
People have said we are fed up with this. We want real government that isn't sort of a division of powers along those lines.
ANDERSON: The question is how do they get that?
These people who are in government are incredibly influential and they will be in this for the long game.
Back after this.
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[11:35:00]
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. We are live out of Beirut for you this evening. I want to bring you up to date on the
very latest now on the death of one of the world's most wanted.
The U.S. president announcing just hours ago that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the founder of the terror group ISIS, is dead following a U.S. military raid
overnight in Syria. Now this video shows what is believed to be the impact of an airstrike in Syria's Idlib region during the operation that we are
told has been in the works for weeks.
From the White House Mr. Trump detailed parts of the operation by American Special Forces with help from Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had him under surveillance for a couple of weeks. We knew a little bit about where he was going, where he was heading. We had very
good information that he was going to another location. He didn't go.
Two or three efforts were canceled because he decided to change his mind, constantly changing his mind. And finally, we saw that he was here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The president said when the suspect was cornered. He detonated a suicide vest that killed him and three children. Now in the past, al-
Baghdadi managed to oversee a violent movement that covered large territories in both Iraq and Syria. It was known for atrocities like
attacks against religious minorities and beheadings of Western hostages.
Want to bring this CNN's terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank and I've got Ben with me here as well. Whichever way you spin the Rubik's Cube on this
one, this has to go down as a victory for President Trump and U.S. Special Forces, correct?
WEDEMAN: There is no question it is a victory. But I think the problem is there is still fertile ground in this region for the growth of
organizations like al Qaeda, like ISIS, because the basic template for authoritarian regimes in this part of the world is to crack down on the
political middle, the moderates.
You jail them, you drive them out of the country, you execute them. What the people are left with is a stark choice, the regime, whatever regime
that might be, or the terrorists.
And so as much as it is always heartening news for many people here to hear that people like al-Baghdadi and bin Laden have been killed, the worry is
that as long as these regimes that basically provide a petri dish for terrorism to grow, continue to act this way, it is not going to change.
ANDERSON: Paul, just how influential was al-Baghdadi to -- to the kind of wider cause, as it were?
And I know we have got a photograph of Donald Trump with some of those who witnessed this operation last night. That image certainly had echoes of
the image of President Obama watching the operation that took out Osama bin Laden.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: Yes, this is just as big a break in the fight against terrorism as taking out bin Laden several years ago. Al-
Baghdadi was the dominant figure within ISIS, not just any old terrorist leader but the political and spiritual leader of what they claimed to be a
caliphate. He claimed that he was a caliphate, the leader of all Muslims worldwide. That was what he was claiming.
So this will make a very big difference, I think, in the coming weeks to ISIS morale, a lot of the followers around the world will carrying on
following that organization because his survival meant that he kept that flame alive.
Well, he is now dead. ISIS has not made clear who is going to follow him. There has been no publicly declared succession plan. He is going to be
very, very difficult to replace. He has been the leader of the group since 2010.
He is highly capable, highly ruthless, was somebody who very effectively ran a clandestine terrorist organization, built it into a force that could
take control of much of Syria and Iraq and was attempting to rebuild it once again.
So this is a huge blow against global terror, against the ISIS terrorist organization. There has got to be concern in the hours and days to come
that followers around the world, some ISIS fighters, may try to retaliate. He was somebody who was a beloved figure amongst those hardliners.
And so security forces here in the United States and Europe, really very much all around the world are going to be on high alert about potential
retaliatory strikes from the group.
[11:40:00]
CRUICKSHANK: And I think in the medium to long term this is actually very, very good news in terms of public safety because it is going to demoralize
ISIS supporters around the world and deflate the terrorist group.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. A lot more on the operation that killed the world's most wanted terrorist leader in the hours to come here on CNN.
Meantime, plenty more to come on this show, including --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): These people are poor. These people are hungry. We have no food. People are dying. I can't handle it
anymore.
ANDERSON (voice-over): The Lebanese people reach the breaking point. We speak to the former minister, Charbel Nahas, echoing calls for a
revolution. We will discuss that after this.
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[11:45:00]
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ANDERSON: Men, women, young or old, it doesn't matter what sect, Lebanese protesters demanding revolution. The country currently at a political
crossroads. The people's voice uniting against corruption.
Well, the square below me, Martyr's Square here in Beirut once again ringing to the sound of demonstrators this Sunday evening, just as it was
last night, when I caught up with two prominent activists who explained how the demonstrators' chants go to the very heart of Lebanon's problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANA KHOURY, LEBANESE ACTIVIST: I think what's very important in the chant that you hear, which is, "all of them, all of them," I think this is where
the red line -- the old red lines of fear has fallen. The red line of fear of the civil war, it has fallen and we already need to acknowledge these
successes for the revolution.
Today I am the red line. My son is the red line. The women closing the roads are the red lines. The students who are rescheduling their studies
to be here are the red lines. We are the red lines. And this is very important. This is what this chant means.
It means, you, as a government, as people in power, have crushed us for so many years, it is just time for you to go home.
GINO RAIDY, BLOGGER AND ACTIVIST: The street is deciding and we -- and the street has been very clear. It is a very simple message.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: People are on the street because this is a country and an economy in a state of collapse.
What's the benefit of continuing these protests, keeping shops and businesses, banks closed and pushing this country further into failure?
RAIDY: If we just look at this quarter, this fiscal year so far, already 10 percent of all businesses had already closed. We had fuel shortages,
rumors of it, of wheat shortages, basic commodities that people rely on every day. So the government, the economy is definitely collapsing.
[11:50:00]
RAIDY: But it is not because of the protests. The protests are because the economy is collapsing.
ANDERSON: How important has this non-sectarian demonstration been?
You have seen Hezbollah supporters demanding change from their organization. You have seen erstwhile supporters of the prime minister,
the president, demanding change from those characters.
This is, since the civil war, unheard of here.
KHOURY: I was born towards the mid to the end of the civil war. People who are protesting here have absolutely no emotional link to the civil war.
And this is very important.
They are young students, young people who have detached themselves from this sectarian system. And this is what people in power are not
understanding, I am going to tell you, we have seen -- very simply, we see people in power and their surroundings and their families getting richer
and richer and richer.
And us, the people, getting poorer and poorer and poorer. And then there is logic in what we do or in what we see.
ANDERSON: What is the biggest risk to this -- let's call it a revolution?
KHOURY: I think there are two big risks. The first ones are the traps that the government and people in power are putting on every day. One of
them -- today we heard a rumor that some people who are blocking the roads are actually asking people for identity papers, which reminds the
collective memory of the Lebanese of the civil war.
The second rumor is that this revolution is financed by foreign powers or these are agents or whatever it is. But I think this is very hard to
convince people of.
The third risk, I think, is all of us not being able to keep up and, at one point saying, OK, this is not going anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Right. Well, I want to get some insight from a veteran politician here in Lebanon. Charbel Nahas has been leading some of the
protests in the country, a former government minister and World Bank economist. He long argued that endemic state corruption would spiral this
country into crisis.
He joins me now here this evening.
You might have seen this economic meltdown but did you ever imagine that you would see a quarter or more of Lebanon's population, a non-sectarian
demonstration of might on the streets like we have seen?
CHARBEL NAHAS, FORMER LEBANESE TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND LABOR MINISTER: We hoped that that would happen before -- one year before, two years before.
Fortunately or not, it is happening after the system has melted down.
Today, administrations are closed. There is no more government. No more parliaments. No more justice. No more schools. No more universities.
This country is really in a transitory period. The only question is how to manage this period with the extremely high costly inheritance left. This
is a challenge, of course, for the Lebanese themselves. This also poses questions to the great powers --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: This is a country that has a 150 percent debt to GDP debt ratio, $80 billion of debt that's stacked up since the end of the civil war back
in 1990. And people on the street will say they have nothing to show for it.
What chance, now, that this revolt can now translate into real meaningful change?
There is momentum but there is no leader, no organization behind it, no manifesto at this point.
NAHAS: Yes. This is not a confrontation between political parties. This is a system that has been put in place at the end of the civil war that is
melting down.
So there is no organization in the protests as well as no organization in the authorities. The only thing that ought to be embraced is the wisdom of
the security forces and the army. This is extremely important.
Now the question is that what makes this country important not only for its citizens and for the non-citizens who live in this country, who are as many
as the citizens themselves but also for the whole region and the great powers. This is precisely what I want to say, if you will allow me.
ANDERSON: You are absolutely here to make your point. I think there is a big concern from protesters about how this revolt will now translate into
action. Let me just -- let me put this to you.
[11:55:00]
ANDERSON: You recently argued that the first victims of this financial crisis are actually the political elite who you equate with -- and I quote
you here -- "tribal chiefs leading a hodgepodge of communities along religious sectarian lines that can no longer be sustained."
I predict to you sir that these are very experienced individuals who know how to play the long game.
And given the accusations of alleged corruption, is there any real chance that they would go quietly at this point?
NAHAS: Yes, this country has experienced civil war long time before all the other countries in the region, long time before. It has also
experienced arrangements of warlords. It has also experienced the so- called reconstruction by crony billionaires.
All this has happened here and lasted for 30 years. This has been called resilience. This resilience has been paid by a deep transformation
population.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Why would they change now?
That's my point.
NAHAS: Because the fuel that allowed this resilience that's exposed by two elements, billions of dollars coming every year because of the massive
immigration of Lebanese and of political money on one hand and external support to the system --
ANDERSON: You are talking about the Lebanese diaspora and the external support.
NAHAS: Exactly.
ANDERSON: -- still this country is on its knees.
NAHAS: If these two fuels are stopped, they do no longer come, therefore, the whole system has fallen. And what we are witnessing is these people,
who have lived through this system, now have woken up.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: I am going to have you back. I have got to take ourselves out of this show. I will have you back, sir.
That's it from us. Back here in a couple of hours. Stay with us.
END
