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Lebanese Prime Minister Announces Resignation after Nearly Two Weeks of Protests; U.K. Labour Leader to Back Early Election. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired October 29, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, into the unknown as Lebanon's prime minister resigns, taking his government with him and it's
unclear what will happen next here in Lebanon. We're 13 days into the paralyzing protests, the country pretty much shut down, the future unclear.
The news right here.
Hello and welcome, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. It's a beautiful evening here as the sun shimmers a warm glow over the
city. But it's unclear what kind of landscape it will rise over tomorrow. A short time ago, the prime minister announced his resignation, standing in
front of a portrait of his late father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAAD HARIRI, LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER (voice-over): I call on all Lebanese people to put Lebanese interests and security of Lebanon and the protection
of the civilians of Lebanon before anything else.
Regarding all my partners in the political field, our responsibility how to protect Lebanon and stop any problems reaching Lebanon. Our responsibility
is improving the country's economy and this chance should not be lost.
And my resignation, I will hand it in, over to the president and all Lebanese people. Positions of power come and go. But the peace and
security of the country and its dignity is more important. And I'm saying nobody is bigger than the country. May Allah protect Lebanon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: (INAUDIBLE) across the country, they've been calling for the prime minister to step down. Even cheering in Martyr's Square just right
here by me when that announcement came. But now that it's actually happened, the question is what now?
CNN's Ben Wedeman is live for us in Beirut.
Before we talk about what happens next, why now?
Why did he decide he would resign today?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Essentially, Becky, he was caught between a rock and a hard place.
On the one hand, you've had, for the last 13 days, mass nationwide protests against the government and, more deeply, the system of politics that's
ruled Lebanon essentially since its independence in the 1940s, the system based on a sectarian division of power.
So he's caught between the protests on the one side and his cabinet on the other, which is composed of a variety of political parties, which are often
quite mutually hostile to one another. And in the end, he realized he could not make any progress.
You'll remember a week ago last Monday he came forward with a raft of reforms, which he hoped would address the demands of the street. They
clearly weren't enough. When violence broke out in down Beirut today, that was perhaps for him the final straw. Becky?
ANDERSON: Hariri and the president both made speeches early last week, promising economic reforms, promising to fix long-term infrastructure
problems, as you rightly point out, and to take anti-corruption measures but refusing at that point to resign.
When he's gone or at least he's submitting his recognition, his detractors, many of them supporters, it has to be said, wondering why it took so long.
But there is a really big question here about what happens next, isn't there?
And as you -- as the sun goes down here and we discuss with those that have been protesting how they feel about this resignation, there is a certain
sense of fear.
WEDEMAN: Yes, there is fear because this resignation of the entire government has opened up a political vacuum. Now it's up to the very
divided Lebanese parliament to come forward with a next prime minister. And it is very unlikely they'll be able to agree on that.
And so in a sense the paralysis that was apparent in parts of Lebanon this morning is even worse now than it was before. And you know the protest
movement has had a variety of demands: for the government to step down; fine, that's happened. They want to rip up the sectarian system that has
existed here in politics since the 1943 national pact.
But the problem is, that kind of demand really creates an existential crisis for the political parties, almost all of which are based upon
confessional affiliation.
[11:05:00]
WEDEMAN: Therefore, you know, how the government or whoever takes over is going to meet those kinds of demands against the background of this very
deep economic crisis that is looming over everything.
And in the absence of some sort of resolution of the crisis, when the economic crisis really bites, when the banks reopen, what we've been seeing
for the last two weeks could be nothing compared to what could happen, when reality bites on the economic front. That's the most dangerous thing
staring Lebanon in the face, Becky?
ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman is at the Beirut bureau.
I want to bring back Lebanese activist Rana Khoury, who I spoke to earlier today but also down on the square just two days ago.
You said there are red lines now. Government must go. When you say all of them, you mean all of them. That's been the chant we've heard. You say
this has been going on since the civil war. It's over, people have changed. This is not about sectarian divisions these days. It's about a
new generation, wanting to see the end of patronage, the sort of confessional system you say that that should be over.
But will it be?
That's the question. Or if it is, could things be worse rather than better. I don't feel pessimistic here but there's a sense of what happens
next.
RANA KHOURY, LEBANESE ACTIVIST: I think we were used to Arab governments or Arab regimes not allowing their people to win or to be happy. But what
this revolution has proved that it's possible.
Now we're not naive and we know that it's not a walk in the park and that there's a lot of traps and mines we have to go through. However, I don't
think anybody today in Lebanon is ready for any violent steps. Again --
ANDERSON: Protesters might not be ready but there are groups that may be ready to carry out orders.
KHOURY: But --
(CROSSTALK)
KHOURY: And this is if there is a party or if there is factions who want a fight, will they attack people?
People have said we don't want to fight. We saw it today, they're raising their arms and saying peaceful, peaceful, peaceful. There are traps, yes;
there are mines, yes.
Will they save their face through violent acts?
I don't know. However, I just want to say it's OK if we give a suffocating people a chance just to breathe a bit and to answer them into what was a
very democratic demand for accountability. Now I don't know what are the surprises that they're preparing for us.
ANDERSON: It's interesting. The chant was all of them must go and that means all of them. We don't know whether there will be familiar faces in
any new transitional governments.
Protesters have said they would protest and effectively this country would be paralyzed until the point the government resigned.
Do those protests continue now, do you believe?
KHOURY: I don't know if they'll continue in the same form but I am sure from what I just felt -- I don't know, I'm not -- but what I felt is that
people are very keen on having a transitory government independent, that you know military, transitory government because they want to get out of
the situation as well.
If people in power are afraid of having a transitory government and going to parliamentary elections, that's another question. If not, let's have it
as a democratic game and let's play it.
ANDERSON: How do you feel today?
KHOURY: I feel happy. The problem is we're not used to feeling happy. We've been on the streets for so many years, for so many things, we're not
used to it. We don't know how to take happiness and then just forget about the other threats around it.
So I'm happy and yet I don't have the trust that they'll let us by happy. So far, I was so humbled to be part of this moment and so proud to be part
of this moment and so proud to belong to this people. And I want to own this happiness.
ANDERSON: Nothing changes as far as sort of daily life is concerned for people, aside from the sense that things can change going forward.
Electricity shortages, banks and the shops are still shut, infrastructure is still creaking. The offers made by Saad Hariri at the beginning of the
week, he says these decisions are not in exchange for anything.
[11:10:00]
ANDERSON: I'm not going to ask you to stop protesting and expressing your anger. This is a decision that you take.
How much more do you want and do people that you know want out of a government going forward?
Because the offers were there, the offers were there to get this economy on the move again.
KHOURY: I think the three years of this government have done a lot of crashes -- not only economic, just before the revolution started, you had a
huge fire in Lebanon. They didn't know how to shut it off. There was a discussion about taxing WhatsApp, a free service.
There was no more fuel in the gas stations. It's not new, what's happening. Actually, people are on the streets because we were in a very
difficult economic situation. And this is why the trust was broken. In two days, when you come with a reform paper that's not very realistic --
ANDERSON: It was 72 hours, 72 hours and the cabinet put together something many people say here, if you can do that in 72 hours why didn't you get it
done?
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: The budget was being put together in order to ensure Lebanon gets a loan, which would help pay some of the bills, help pay down some of
the deficit, pay down some of the ballooning debt in this place.
The question is, if that isn't the answer for people on the street, what is?
KHOURY: I think what people want from the transitory government is to find ways to get out of the economic crisis and it's their job. It's not their
job to have economic plans. Now there were a lot -- today a meeting was canceled. This is part of the pressure on the government but this is
actually not our job. We're here to say we want a government that takes us out of --
ANDERSON: Let's talk about the risks. As a party is gaining significant influence in Lebanese politics, the leader of Hezbollah spoke on Friday.
He said this government should not resign, should it resign, he said, my people will hit the streets, and I quote him here, that will be -- that
will change the equation.
He talked about should this government resign, the risk on the street could be a changemaker.
Does that worry you?
We're already seeing some violence today.
KHOURY: So far there are no official statements by Hezbollah to take to the streets. For us, this is what we take. And one thing that is very
important, I think, as Lebanese people, whether you support a certain party or you don't support a certain party.
The resignation of this government has nothing to do with other causes that people support, whether resistance to Israel that we support in the way we
want to support it, whether it has to do with secularism. This protest -- this revolution was an accountability revolution for people who didn't know
how to serve their people to resign.
This is why it should be focused. So far there are no claim or official claims by any party to escalate this. And I hope this is how it will stay.
ANDERSON: We'll see. Thank you. Thanks for joining me here.
We are connecting you to breaking news, Lebanon's prime minister putting it bluntly, frankly, he announced his resignation. Where else?
We ask that question after this.
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[11:15:00]
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ANDERSON: Breaking news we're following after demonstrations paralyzed his country, Lebanon's prime minister has made a move and resigned. He said no
one is bigger than the country as he announced his government was stepping aside just over an hour ago.
is an assistant professor at the American University of Beirut. She's been taking part in the protests.
He says nobody is bigger than this country. Many people, his detractors will say he should have known that a long time ago and have gone some time
ago.
Why did he wait so long, do you believe?
RIMA MAJED, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF BEIRUT: Before analyzing, I think it's important for us to remember that the resignation came in a clear context.
The circumstances in which the resignation happen today are not exactly what the protesters were asking for.
I'm not saying the resignation should not be claimed as a victory but I have to warn that this resignation came with violence. This is an
orchestrated --
ANDERSON: But they asked for it.
(CROSSTALK)
MAJED: But they did not ask for the resignation so happen after an orchestrated attack on the protesters, which I think are the main event
today.
ANDERSON: -- orchestrated --
MAJED: It is orchestrated. I consider that there is a clear decision for the protests to be attacked.
(CROSSTALK)
MAJED: I call it -- these are the counter revolutionary forces the --
ANDERSON: -- for our viewers who those are --
MAJED: So those are part of the ruling regime. More specifically, two main parties have sent their thugs today to attack protesters, a very
peaceful protest that's been taking place for 12 days here, 12 days of kids, adults, everyone chanting, drawing, dancing. Just now after those
attacks people are --
ANDERSON: You say do you believe those attacks were orchestrated by elements in the government, knowing he was going to resign?
Or did he resign as a result of what he saw?
MAJED: I think he was going to resign. And there has been talks about this resignation for the past two days. But I think the way the
resignation happened was clearly to tell the people that this is not a gift, right?
This is clearly sending a message of threat. This is a serious security threat. Unfortunately, we have seen the same scenario in neighboring
countries. And I wish I could be more optimistic today. But I think our responsibility is also to be very vigilant.
What is happening -- I'm sorry but when we've seen in other revolutions in the region when the regime starts to threaten that the civil war might
happen, they end up doing it. Today, this is a very critical moment we're at.
ANDERSON: The leader of Hezbollah warned on Friday that, should this government resign, that he would send his people onto the streets. He
says, "And that would change the equation here."
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: This is an organization which has a lot more influence in politics here than it has ever had before, isn't it?
What do you believe the political picture will look like once the dust here is settled?
Because it's not only in Lebanon and for people like yourself and the diaspora.
Other countries watching what is going on and wondering what happens next in Lebanon.
MAJED: Yes, Hezbollah is not only the most powerful political party, what makes it so powerful, it's the most armed group in the country, even
stronger than the army.
So this is where the threat comes from. The coming days are very difficult to figure out. I expect that tonight the streets will see very big
protests again. I think this is crucial to preserve the revolution.
ANDERSON: I'm hearing Arabic.
(CROSSTALK)
MAJED: It's what I'm expecting now.
ANDERSON: It's as if someone just turned it up on the square, which is a positive.
MAJED: Exactly. We are expecting -- what happened today will backlash. We're expecting people to go back to the streets. But I fear, as the
sectarian card being played, I think what happened this morning is to turn the streets, is to sectarianize (sic) things. What I expect at the
political level is a deadlock for the coming months.
ANDERSON: Would it be fair to say you'd take the argument, some people might say, those who protested would have been naive to expect that the
sectarian card wouldn't reveal itself once again?
MAJED: No, I don't think it's naive. I think what happens in the past 12 days is clearly -- I mean, it would be naive to think that political
sectarianism has ended. Social sectarianism is a different thing. Sectarianism is not about people loving or hating each other. This is not
what is dividing the Lebanese people.
The regime is a sectarian regime, of course. These are political parties that will use the sectarian card, definitely. And I think what happened
this morning is -- they were chanting, "Shia, Shia," in the streets, knowing very clearly they do not represent the Shia.
ANDERSON: I'm going to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us. Very, very important story. Thank you.
To Britain now and Boris Johnson's bid to hold an early election. Parliament voted against a December poll on Monday night. They're
currently debating it again ahead of another vote on the issue later today.
There's been a big shift, though, in the opposition Labour Party's position. Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says he'll now back a December snap
election. That's all but ensuring Britain will head to the polls before Christmas.
But in another potential blow to Boris Johnson's plans, lawmakers have voted for an amendment making it easier for them to alter his election
bill.
There's a lot of political weed going on here. Let's step back for our viewers' sake, those who are not caught up in the machinations of what's
going on in Britain.
Specifically why do we care about what is happening in Parliament as we speak?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I suppose if you take the big view, we sort of don't. In a way what we're hearing is a rehearsal
of what we'll hear on the campaign trails over the next five to six weeks. That does seem to be where we're headed.
The big picture does seem to indicate that come the 9th or 10th or 11th or 12th or December, Britain will be having a general election before
Christmas. There will be a new government.
I think the big picture that maybe the makeup of that new government may give it a strong enough hand to either throw Brexit out the window
completely or force through the prime minister's current withdrawal agreement bill.
So I think those are the big picture issues, the sort of detail that's going inside without getting into the weeds too much.
One of the changes today might be the date. The other big thing in the cards is there was a real push from the opposition party to allow 16- and
17-year-olds to have the vote because at the moment it's 18-year olds and above to get to have the vote in the U.K.
And there's a perception that the younger voter probably wouldn't vote or not in as big numbers for the Conservative Party. So the debate inside is
-- may get heated around that issue.
[11:25:00]
ROBERTSON: It's not clear that 16- or 17-year-olds will get to have the vote. That's the thing that's going on at the moment, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Nic's in London, we're in Beirut in Lebanon, where there's a lot going on. We have had the resignation or the announcement
from the prime minister here that he'll be submitting his resignation anytime now.
On Capitol Hill in Washington, bombshell testimony by a witness in the now infamous July phone call between the U.S. president and his Ukrainian
counterpart. The White House's top Ukraine expert Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman is expected to tell investigators that he was so disturbed by Mr.
Trump's request for information on Joe Biden he reported it and he reported it twice.
Meanwhile, House Democrats have announced the next step in their impeachment probe, setting up a vote later this week to formalize
procedures. It follows complaints from the Republicans and the White House that this has been unfair.
Joining us is Stephen Collinson.
No surprise that the White House is making these accusations at present. I just wonder what you think -- how important and significant you think this
testimony is on the Hill today?
We have said a number of times this is crucial, this could be the smoking gun. So talk us through where we are at and why what we're hearing on the
Hill today is important.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the Democrats think they've got a killer witness in Lt. Col. Vindman. He's the first West Wing official to
testify -- sitting West Wing official at least to testify to this hearing. He was a witness also to the call, the central call at the center of all
this between the president and the president of Ukraine on July 25th.
He is also right now, according to his opening statement, at least, corroborating the testimony of previous witnesses, including Fiona Hill and
Mr. Taylor, the top U.S. diplomat in Kiev. He's saying he was troubled by what he saw as an attempt by the president to get a political favor from
Zelensky on that call.
Not only that but he told his superiors twice about it. So this gets to the very center of the case against Trump, the Democrats are building, that
he abused his power by trying to get dirt on Joe Biden and the Democrats from Ukraine.
So he is clearly seen by the Democrats as a very credible witness. He showed up for his testimony in his Army uniform. And he is going to be a
key figure if and when, as we expect, this inquiry opens out into public hearings in the coming weeks.
ANDERSON: Stephen Collinson in the house for you viewers in Washington.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD here from Beirut in Lebanon. Still to come, the prime minister will resign, taking his government along with him.
But we'll tell you why there is unfinished business. We'll put that to the independent MP here. That is up next.
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[11:30:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
ANDERSON: We are out of Beirut for you tonight, following breaking news here in Lebanon. We have new pictures of the prime minister submitting his
resignation letter. This comes after demonstrations that have paralyzed this country and protesters demanded that the prime minister stand aside.
In a speech over an hour ago, he told his nation this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARIRI (voice-over): I call on all Lebanese people to put Lebanese interests and security of Lebanon and the protection of the civilians of
Lebanon before anything else. Regarding all my partners in the political field, our responsibility is how to protect Lebanon and stop any problems
reaching Lebanon.
Our responsibility is improving the country's economy and this chance should not be lost.
And my resignation, I'll hand it in over to the president and all Lebanese people. Positions of power come and go. But the peace and security of the
country and its dignity is more important. And I'm saying nobody is bigger than the country. May Allah protect Lebanon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Paula Yacoubian is a Lebanese MP, the only member of Parliament who is independent, who isn't part of a political party. Quite the feat
here in Lebanon, in a country which is run by -- set up to be and run by politics on a sectarian playing field. She's with me here in Beirut.
Before you were an MP, you worked for a television station. You did a long and confrontational interview in 2017.
(CROSSTALK)
PAULA YACOUBIAN, LEBANESE MP: It wasn't confrontational at all.
ANDERSON: What I'm saying is you asked the right questions. You were asking the right questions of a prime minister who is and has been for some
time embattled in this country. You know him better than most.
What's going through his head today?
YACOUBIAN: Let me tell you here I am again because I don't think you can find any politicians to go on air and explain what's happening or analyze -
-
ANDERSON: We'll find them.
YACOUBIAN: I'm saying this just to gear up something, this is the first time in Lebanon that politicians are in their houses and the televisions,
the street, everything is for the people.
This is a scenery that I wouldn't have imaged. This is a dream coming true for once.
Going back to the prime minister, this is not the first surreal resignation. What's going in his head, I think he reached a deadlock in
negotiations with the other parties. Apparently they wanted him not to resign and not to give anything to the protesters. They want to keep
everything as it is.
And they were convinced people would get tired and go back to their homes, that they have many scenarios like the violent scenes we've seen today.
The economic card; this is the end of the months, what will happen to your salaries --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: They still hold all the cards, despite his resignation.
[11:35:00]
YACOUBIAN: You have a tough political caste in Lebanon. It's not someone who would tell the protesters, you know what, you want us to go home, we'll
go home and have interim government or caretaking government or we'll try to have new elections.
I don't think they'll do new elections anytime soon. It's something they should do. There should be elections soon.
However, we've seen it months ago in -- there was an election for one parliamentary seat and they didn't do it because there's no money in
Lebanon. You know, outside money is not pouring in like before. And they are trapped, all of them. They don't want to go back to the --
ANDERSON: Let's talk about why that external money isn't incoming at present. The international institutions like the IMF and the World Bank
will say we need to see an austerity budget that would work for the $11 billion loan they were offering.
Hariri says that the austerity budget he announced that wasn't acceptable to the protesters, was his best effort he says in order to get that loan.
Saudi Arabia, let's talk about that an as external force, a country that has plowed money into this country. It is the country where, in 2018, he
resigned for the first time, oddly.
YACOUBIAN: Yes.
ANDERSON: 2018. After you did the interview. You did the interview in 2017.
YACOUBIAN: Yes, yes.
ANDERSON: You've got the Iranians. Huge influence on this country through the Shia party of Hezbollah.
Those influences aren't going to go away, are they?
YACOUBIAN: No.
(CROSSTALK)
YACOUBIAN: Let me tell you, for the last decade Saudi Arabia was not paying money anymore in Lebanon. Because of the sanctions, the U.S.
sanctions, there's less Iranian money but it's still definitely coming. So everyone has a problem, because they have --
(CROSSTALK)
YACOUBIAN: -- televisions, they have radio stations, they have offices everywhere. They have to pay money. They have a huge payroll every month
to pay.
And, yes, they have a serious problem when it comes to financing their institutions. Plus, this is destructive, what's happening in the street
right now is a historic moment for Lebanon. It's disrupting for them. They go on air and say no resignation, we're staying there, people are with
us and next day they see more people taking to the street.
After the violent scenes you'll see more people will be in the street. It will not work. However, I have a message for the protesters, they have to
know how to deal with these people coming from different -- from one background, let's say, who are maybe --
ANDERSON: Provoke them?
YACOUBIAN: They have to contain them somehow.
ANDERSON: I'm saying they'll be provoked. You're saying don't take the bait.
YACOUBIAN: Don't know into street fight. This is the worst thing that can happen. No matter what they do, we have to contain them. This is the
missing link to make this revolution a real revolution for all the people in Lebanon.
ANDERSON: It's so important we discuss what happens next. The next hours, the next days, the next weeks and months to come. You know because you've
been in television, that we have to pay for these shows, which means take a short break. Paula, thank you.
YACOUBIAN: Thank you so much.
ANDERSON: "Nobody is bigger than the country," Saad Hariri's words as he steps down. More on the resignation of Lebanon's prime minister after
this.
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[11:40:00]
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching our breaking news here on CNN. The resignation of the Lebanese prime minister Saad Hariri. Here we see
him submitting that resignation to the Lebanese president. He's stepping aside to give protesters in the country what they want.
It also brings about uncertainty in Lebanon and beyond, sending shockwaves through the region. Hariri's had a complex relationship with Saudi Arabia
and that's where we find John Defterios. He's live for us in Riyadh.
You're at the Future Investment Initiative in Riyadh. This is the third year of the meeting. I know you've been speaking to Lebanese bankers.
What have they be telling you about this resignation?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, in a line, Becky, why did it take so long?
They thought this carried on for ages; in fact, decades with the level of corruption which in fact led those ex-pats to go to all corners of the
world and not stay at home. You mentioned the complex relationship with Saudi Arabia. After 2017, the prime minister was kidnapped by Saudi Arabia
and he had to cough up land his father had owned in the construction business here.
Last year, he joined the panel with Mohammed bin Salman, who joked saying we won't kidnap you again. We have a crisis because Lebanon has the third
highest debt to GDP in the world. It's been able to suck in capital to the economy because it's paying high interest rates.
Those days are coming to an end. And there's pressure on the debtor nations to shore up their finances it they want to get future lending. And
we have a mismatch in expectations. This is the biggest issue.
The protesters in Lebanon and throughout the Middle East and North Africa, what they want to see and what's the reality in the poorer nations like
Lebanon, beyond the corruption, they don't have an industrial base in which to grow out of the crisis.
ANDERSON: You make a very good point. Absolutely. And it shows the fact there is a deficit of some 25 percent. Twin deficits, huge debt load as
you have pointed out. Infrastructure, which is creaking and has been since the end of the civil war here. It's understandable people are
demonstrating on the streets.
What does happen, how do you move this on?
Where will the investment appetite come from if it remains in a status quo?
I want to get what is going on where you're at.
What's being discussed?
DEFTERIOS: It's interesting. In the last 90 minutes, there's a good parallel here with King Abdullah of Jordan. He's a benefactor from funds
that come in from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE. That's helped puff up the economy. He talked about the youth unemployment you just raised,
saying we need to offer this opportunity to the youth.
It's something he's been banging away for the last 10 years I've been in the region full time. We've seen protests in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq coming
to the boil, Egypt we've seen sporadic protests. Look what happened in Algeria and Sudan. So I asked the regional director of the International
Monetary Fund, is it really about the lack of opportunity here?
Take a listen.
[11:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIHAD AZOUR, IMF DIRECTOR MIDDLE EAST AND CENTRAL ASIA: We are in a region where 60 percent of the population is below 30. And the average
unemployment rate exceeds 25 percent. Therefore, this is something that requires strong investment in infrastructure, structural reforms and
boosting the role of the private sector in order to provide the 25 million or 27 million new job opportunities in the next 5-7 years. This is where
the challenge is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEFTERIOS: A little irony; he's part of the Lebanese diaspora. He's talking about the challenges that Lebanon does face here. Finally, I think
it was the best analogy, like a cork being shoved into a bottle after years. We saw it implode in 2011. I'm going to call this the Arab Spring
2. But it looks a lot like that in 2019.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. John, thank you for that. John is in Riyadh at the Future Investment Initiative. That's the third year of that meeting.
It's been up and running, perhaps better than attended than last year.
Up next, Lebanon's leader is out in the face of paralyzing protests and warnings of impending economic collapse. More on that after this.
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ANDERSON: Finally, a quick recap of the breaking news for you this hour before we get out of this. Lebanon's embattled prime minister has
announced his resignation. Last hour, he admitted he's reached a dead end and so he's stepping down. The country has been crippled by two weeks of
nationwide protests with hundreds of thousands of angry citizens venting their frustrations over decades of corruption.
Ben Wedeman has been following this all day and joins us once again.
These protesters have been venting their frustration over decades of inaction. We're seeing people complaining about this revolution in that
two weeks in, they can't get to work, they can't get on with life. Middle class people might be able to afford not to work but others are hurting as
a result.
Is this a victory today do you think?
WEDEMAN: It's a pyrrhic victory, if it is. What we see is there is a chasm opening up among what was initially in the first few days a fairly
united movement. After 13 days and this tactic of road closures by the protest movement, there are these differences opening up.
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WEDEMAN: For instance, we've all seen these pictures of people doing yoga on the streets that are blocked and ads on Airbnb for living rooms in the
middle of main highways in Beirut. It's all very cute.
But the fact of the matter is, a large part of the Lebanese population lives day by day. They do not have a lot of money to get by. And so
you've had these clashes today, the worst violence we've seen since the beginning of the protests 13 days ago between people in a working class
neighborhood not far from here, who have been telling the protesters, please open the roads. We need to go to work.
I spoke to a driver, he said he hasn't worked since the protests began, sort of the first full day was the 18th of October. He says, I need to buy
food for my family.
And of course, whenever there's tension here, there's always a sectarian angle that comes in. Many of those who clashed with the anti-government
protesters were chanting Hezbollah slogans and whatnot.
Others were chanting the slogans of the other Shiite party here. In a sense the so-called October revolution made a mistake by paralyzing the
country, because not everybody in this country can afford to be on the streets for 13 days. Some people need to work. Becky?
ANDERSON: Yes, you make a very good point.
Jad Chaaban is a professor at the American University of Beirut, also part of a league of professors taking part in the protests.
Ben's point that people do need to live here. While the momentum with this incredible sort of array of people, young, old, rich, poor, across the
sectarian divide, were united at the beginning of this, what happens next?
Do they see this as a victory?
I wonder whether we should start with whether you see this as a victory today.
JAD CHAABAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF BEIRUT: I mean, definitely. This is the first step. This is what I as a protester wanted first, the
resignation of this government. Formation of a new clean government with people who can actually have the integrity to actually push forward the
reforms and that we can trust.
And also start drafting a new law that would start bringing about a renewal in the political environment.
ANDERSON: All of which is very important and was part of the demands, of course. Just to allude to Ben's point. We talked a lot about the risk to
this revolution. And Ben's point being, as you see these ordinary people on the street, he talked to a taxi driver.
People are saying, you know, we are -- we need to work. That provides the cloak of respectability to a certain extent. Certainly, some leverage for
some of the more thuggish elements of Lebanese society.
That's a real risk, isn't it?
CHAABAN: Yes, I mean, definitely. No revolution or uprising can really be like, a walk in the park. You know, it's something hard, that people have
to cope with the risks and repercussions.
What we've been telling people, is we've been living in blockage for 30 years. It's for one week, two weeks. Definitely if this had lasted more,
there would be more repercussions of those who cannot get their paychecks through the banks, the small businesses. Of course.
ANDERSON: The question is going to be what happens. How do you get people back to work and how do you get the shops and banks open while maintaining
momentum for positive political change.
Yesterday I interviewed the president of your university, who has drawn criticism that he's interfering in Lebanon's protests. He told me the
people are not waiting for a, quote, "savior." Have a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FADLO KHURI, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF BEIRUT: For the longest time, not just the people of Lebanon but the people of the Arab world, the people of the
entire region -- and I would go beyond Lebanon to the entire Middle East from Turkey all the way to Iran -- have waited for that external savior
that person to come to influence things, they expect a rescue of the situation. It's clear that does not work here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I want to get your response to these accusations of interference.
What role does a university have in -- I can see the role this university has.
What role should a university have in a protest movement like this?
CHAABAN: I want to confirm that, as protesters, as faculty professors, the president of the university has not interfered with us. At some point we
were not agreeing on the tactics and the university wanted to resume classes but he was definitely not interfering. I respect his opinion, his
position.
[11:55:00]
CHAABAN: And I agree with him, that universities are places of thought or institutions of education and civic education, the participation in, you
know, the life and change in any country is very important. Whatever way it goes.
We're with freedom of speech, we're with engaging society and this is what we teach our students. We said in a statement that the best classes right
now are in the streets, are not in the classrooms. We told our students if they want to go into the demonstrations, go there and learn. We went there
and learned from the students.
ANDERSON: We'll leave it there, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us today. Victory but pyrrhic perhaps. We connected your world through
breaking news this hour through the prism of deeply troubled Lebanese politics. Up next, I'm back up with Eleni Giokos, looking at the economics
of all of this in the express. Stay with us.
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