Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

UK MPs Approve General Election For December 12; U.S. House To Vote On Impeachment Inquiry Procedures; Trump Allies Questions Vindman's Loyalty To U.S.; Boeing CEO Grilled Over 737 Max Crashes; Boeing CEO Apologizes To Crash Victims' Families; E.U.: ISIS Still a Major Threat after Leader's Killing; Great White Sharks Vanishing. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired October 30, 2019 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[01:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, Boris Johnson gets his early election in five weeks. British voters will elect a new government, a poll seen as a referendum on Brexit.

He's a decorated war veteran and a White House staffer who was on the now infamous Ukraine phone call, but after his damning testimony before Congress, Republicans and the President try to smear his reputation and question his patriotism.

And Boeing's CEO confronted by families and grill by lawmakers during a contentious hearing on Capitol Hill.

Let the election campaign begins. It seems almost certain that British voters will be heading to the polls December 12th after Prime Minister Boris Johnson won approval in Parliament for a snap election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERCOW, SPEAKER, HOUSE OF COMMONS: The ayes to the right 438, the noes to the left 20. So the ayes have it. The ayes have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Mr. Johnson is banking on an election win to break the parliamentary gridlock over Brexit, the opposition Labour Party though says it's ready for real change. For more now, let's bring in Dominic Thomas CNN's European Affairs Commentator live in Los Angeles.

So Dom, OK, the last time the Tories went for an early election to win a Brexit mandate, it didn't work out so well. You know, Theresa May, she's up 20 points in the polls. There are all these flattery comparisons she was the next Margaret Thatcher. She managed to lose the parliamentary majority anyway. And there's every chance this could go just as badly for Johnson. DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: There's always a risk, but I think the situation is slightly different. Theresa May called the snap election just a year after the referendum. This was a very different time in the Brexit moment. And I think it was seen as quite a greedy move that rather than reaching across party lines and trying to compromise, I think she was punished for that at the polls.

But I think that this is similar in one way too that this is very much about candidates that was selected by their parties that want the legitimacy of being elected by the British people. That's important. But I think the key difference is that Boris Johnson throughout this process has been a hardcore Brexiteer and Theresa May was a converted remainer.

And I don't think she ever got to overcome that particular stigma within her party and to have the kind of legitimacy she needed to get a withdrawal agreement with a necessary kind of vote. So that's an important distinction.

VAUSE: OK, well the election is being seen pretty much as a referendum on Brexit. Johnson really is the only option left he has really to break what is a paralyzed Parliament. Here he is. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: There's only one way now to move this country forward and to have that debate and that is to get Brexit done. And there's only one way to get Brexit done in the face of this unrelenting parliamentary obstructionism, this endless willful, fingers crossed, "not me guv refusal" to deliver on the mandate of the people, and that is, Mr. Speaker, to refresh this parliament and give the people the choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: But here's the thing. Brexit is not party specific in the sense that there are Tory remainders and there are Labour leaders. So a parliamentary majority for you know, for either Labour or the Conservatives doesn't necessarily guarantee a parliament majority for Brexit, right?

THOMAS: No, it doesn't, John. But it is a mechanism that can potentially break this deadlock or this paralysis that we find ourselves in. There's one important thing here that the Conservative Party, though is almost unanimous in wanting some kind of Brexit. The disagreement is whether it's over a no-deal whether a negotiated deal with the European Union.

The problem is that within the opposition. First of all, the opposition is so divided between the Lib Dems, Labour and so on. But the fact remains that the majority of Labour Party members want to remain in the European Union, and that is something the great mistake, I believe, that Jeremy Corbyn has made throughout this process is to try and cater to those constituencies that want to leave the European Union rather than focusing on the membership. And this membership is going to bleed to the Lib Dems. It's not going to support Jeremy Corbyn. And those that want Brexit are most likely to vote either for conservative candidate or most likely for a Brexit party candidate. So Boris Johnson takes a risk here that still comes out as the leading party with a fractured opposition here too. It doesn't solve the problem, but it could potentially open up something new for us.

VAUSE: OK, well, you know, just for the record, it's time to check the date, October 30th if I'm not mistaken. Traditionally, the 31st of October would be the following day, that would be this coming Thursday. That was an important date. There's something like Halloween, there was something else as well, something, something. Here's Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I want everybody to know. There are new circumstances in which I will ask Brussels to delay. We're leaving on the 31st of October, no ifs or buts. We will not accept any attempt to go back on our promises, or scrub that referendum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: That's right. That's right. This was the day that he's going to die -- 31st was when he's going to die in a ditch if he wasn't going to leave the E.U. How many times will that clip be played especially I guess by the Brexit party? You could very easily run a "you can't trust Boris campaign and eat into the conservative vote."

THOMAS: Well, they could run it all the time. Now, the big risk for them, of course, is they don't want to run it too much and end up sort of, you know, shifting some of the electorate towards other parties and then ending up with no Brexit at all. But it is going to be very interesting to see how well the Brexit party does.

We certainly see in mainland Europe where coalition parties in Austria, for example, have had to speak to this kind of far-right groups around which they initially set a red line. So it's going to be interesting to see, you know, how that works out.

And look, John, it's not Halloween yet. We never know what's going to happen with Brexit over the next 24 hours. But certainly, you know.

VAUSE: It's a gift that keeps giving, right? And Brexit -- that keeps giving right, and it may suck oxygen out of the room, all the oxygen. But are there any other issues, you know, other the agenda here for voters, I mean, health care or you know, law enforcement?

The Tories has been in power for nine years. They've got a pretty mixed track record. So will this impact it or is it all just Brexit?

THOMAS: Well, John, my major response would be to just say no, there's nothing else that will -- that will count. I think obviously in local constituencies there will be issues. Scotland, for example, is going to be talking about remaining in the European Union, and if not looking at it independence vote.

The Labour Party is trying to shift the discussion with their slogan that they will attempt to appeal to the many not to the few, but I actually think that they're going to end up appealing to the few and not the many. So they want to at all costs shift the debate away from this because I think that they lose out on this.

It's clear that if you support Brexit, you vote conservative or for the Brexit party, and if you don't, your option is the Liberal Democrats. That's where it stands right now. It's the single-issue election. It's essentially yet another referendum and an opportunity for people to weigh in around the question of Brexit. The rest of this will just simply not be a factor.

VAUSE: Most of it somehow it all kind of works out that it's too (INAUDIBLE). I don't know. We'll see. Dominic, thank you.

THOMAS: Happy Halloween.

VAUSE: Yes, right. Well, for the first time, a White House official currently working for the Trump administration has testified impeachment inquiry. And he told lawmakers he tried to raise the alarm twice over attempts by the President to pressure Ukraine into digging up dirt on the Democrats.

But unlike previous witnesses, Alexander Vindman was actually on that phone call between President Trump and Zelensky. Lieutenant Colonel Vindman arrived on Capitol Hill wearing full uniform. He's an active army officer, decorated war hero, and a senior advisor on Ukraine. Here's part of his opening statement.

"I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demanded that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government's support of Ukraine."

Despite Vindman's record of serving his country, even receiving a Purple Heart after being wounded in Iraq, the President and his supporters are working to smear Vindman's reputation with unfounded allegations intended to question his credibility and his patriotism. CNN's Kaitlan Collins has more now reporting from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the top White House expert on Ukraine testified today, President Trump was lashing out at the Purple Heart recipient without naming him, accusing Lieutenant Colonel Alex Vindman of being a political opponent. Asking, was he on the same call that I was? And how many more never Trump or is will be allowed to testify?

The President's attacks coming as the White House is privately deciding how to respond to the latest moves by Democrats, who are now slated to take their first vote on the impeachment inquiry forcing lawmakers to go on the record supporting the investigation.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Every member will have to make a decision based on their conscience.

COLLINS: The vote could work in the White House's favor or against it. Trump's aides are waiting to see what Democrats do before making any moves. Republicans have demanded for weeks that Democrats must vote before the inquiry can be seen as legitimate. Though today they claimed it's too little too late.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I applaud the speaker for finally admitting it is a whole entire sham, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

COLLINS: One Republican congressman admitting he hasn't attended any of the closed-door depositions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But why are you not there?

REP. TED YOHO (R-FL): Because I've had other responsibilities in the House. And what I see this as a sideshow.

COLLINS: Ted Yoho is a Republican who sits on one of the three committees allowed in the room. But he says he hasn't even read the transcripts.

YOHO: We've read the summary of Volker's and there was one other one we did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The summary or you've gone actually to read --

YOHO: No, just the summary of them.

COLLINS: The President's attacks on the impeachment inquiry come as his own top aides have struggled to explain the damning testimony that's emerging.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, are you referring to William Taylor's testimony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His account, the testimony as far as we know.

PENCE: Well, we can't really count on that because all we have from the committee are leaks.

COLLINS: Despite saying this weeks ago.

PENCE: We're discussing that with White House Council as we speak.

COLLINS: Vice President Mike Pence's office has still not released his transcripts. While sources say they contain no bombshells, an administration officials said they're still being reviewed by the attorneys.

And now Democrats are saying they're likely going to start holding some of these depositions, some of these testimonies from these current and former officials in public. But right now they're still lining up several to do in private, including one potential person who was actually on that July 25th phone call Rob Blair. He's the National Security Advisor for the Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney.

And right now, a CNN reporting shows they've been in discussions with him, potentially his lawyer about having Rob Blair appear on Capitol Hill, though it's still unclear if you will. Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: For more, I'm joined now by Michael Genovese, a political analyst. He's also the author of how Trump governs. He's also the President of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. And we're lucky to have you with us, Michael. Good to see you.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Nice to be here.

VAUSE: You know, if the Democrats were looking for a perfect witness to build a case against the President, doesn't get much better than Colonel Vindman?

GENOVESE: Right out of Hollywood casting. And that's why the Republicans, especially in the White House, have been so quick to try to damn him, to question his patriotism, to question is loyalty. That's a very difficult position to take.

The President got away with it when he attacked John McCain, saying he wasn't a war hero, but how many times can you go to the well before people start saying, wait a minute, the military is the most respected institution in America? Are all these people so bad, so corrupt?

And so I think it's a function of the President losing the argument. And since he lost the argument, you have to try to distract an attack. And that's something the President is very good at. I think he's bitten off much more than you can chew on this one, though.

VAUSE: His role in the White House is senior advisor on Ukraine. So apparently, these officials had been in contact with Vindman asking the best way to deal with Rudy Giuliani, who was obviously pushing for this investigation. It seems like a fair question to ask someone who's a Ukraine annex -- Ukraine expert, I should say. Somehow the people over at Fox News saw it like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Here we have a U.S. national security official who is advising Ukraine while working inside the White House, apparently against the President's interest and usually they spoken English. Isn't that kind of an interesting angle on this story?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I find that astounding and, you know, some people might call that espionage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Yes. Even before he testified, though, the President had labeled Vindman a never Trumper, question his credibility, mentioned him alongside, you know, the words witch hunt. Character assassination can be very effective. But in this case, you know, when we're looking at this witness who is, as you say, straight out of central casting for an American patriot, does this actually end up doing the President more harm than good?

GENOVESE: I think it will. I think, you know, you can only go so far with the anti-American, anti-military jargon. And I think, you know, you began the questioning with, you know, why is he talking to -- why was Vindman talking to the Ukraine, but (INAUDIBLE) Rudy Giuliani?

Well, there are two different foreign policies going on. You had the State Department and you had Rudy. And so you can see why the Ukrainians would be confused. It would go to someone and say, what's going on here? What do I do? But I think you see the attacks and you saw the John Yoo from Fox News. John is usually very temperate. I've debated him before. He's a smart guy. But it shows you how desperate that side is that they've just lost control.

They've lost control of the narrative. They've lost the debate. They've lost all the key arguments. The evidence is going overwhelmingly against them. They're desperate. Their backs are up to the wall. And this is how you behave when you're -- when you're been wounded and you're bleeding badly.

VAUSE: And this is moving quite quick this investigation. So if you look back at what we now have, we now have the President's public confession that he asked a foreign government to investigate his political opponent. Here's a reminder.

[01:15:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China just started investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine. So, I would say that President Zelensky, if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens, because nobody has any doubt that they weren't crooked. That was a crooked deal, 100 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: We had the evidence released by the White House in the form of a summary of that phone call with Ukraine's leader, which is supported by the whistleblower report. We have the confession from the White House Chief of Staff that there was in fact, quid pro quo. Is this testimony from Colonel Vindman, when he says he was concerned the President's actions were a threat to national security, is that the last crucial piece here which explains why all of this matters?

GENOVESE: Well, it may not be the last crucial piece, we may see more testimony against the President. But the drip, drip, drip is now an avalanche. And you can see it in the behavior of Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi for months and months was trying to protect or to shield her Democratic colleagues from having to make this move on impeachment because a lot of them were in swing districts. They were vulnerable. They're not vulnerable now.

In fact, the expectation is that impeachment will occur. And that frees the Democrats up, now I think they're not afraid. Whereas the Republicans, you want to get them on the record now because if you vote now against the Impeachment Inquiry may not be bad now, but in November next year, if Trump goes down, that's going to be a valuable vote and the Democrats will use it against the Republicans. And so, a month ago, the tables were turned, it was reversed. Now, Nancy Pelosi can't get enough of it.

VAUSE: It'll be interesting if he is called by Democrats to testify to see how that ends up. Michael, we're out of time, but as always, thank you so much.

GENOVESE: Thank you, John.

VAUSE: Boeing under fire in the U.S. Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would walk before I was to get on a 737 Max, I would walk. There's no way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: When we come back, more on the damning revelations from Boeing CEO about what he knew about the problems of the 737 and when he knew it. Also, with ISIS leader al-Baghdadi dead, what happens to the thousands of his little Jihadis still locked up in prison?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN INTERNATIONAL METEOROLOGIST: How about this for a weather map? I'm meteorologist Pedram Javaheri on this eve of Halloween. And this is not a weather pattern you want to see heading on into a big day, at least for the kids on Thursday. And a lot of wet weather, a lot of which comes down in the form of heavy snow showers across portions of the Intermountain West on into the plains even on into the Midwest. In fact, as you track the system farther towards the east, Kansas City gets in on its first go of snow for the season. St. Louis and, yes, even on Halloween day there in Chicago, some snow showers expected.

Very cold air in play, some of the accumulations somewhat respectable, maybe get some disruptions for some of these schools across the region as well with all this snow in place, but notice in the southern tier of the U.S., southerly flow gulf moisture put it together. You've got yourself a lot of rainfall in store across that region. Where they need rainfall, of course, is the Golden State of California that is where significant risk in place here for wildfire weather activity. In fact, winds exceeding 50 to 70 miles per hour which is sitting around, say, 80 to 110 kilometers per hour and that is a major concern. These down sloping winds warm by compression and if they do, we know the concern with active fires on the ground across this region are going to be almost impossible to contain.

[01:20:01]

And of course, the trend here remains rather warm and extremely dry each of the next seven days, you're going to be hard pressed to find anything in the way of cloud cover in Southern California. Just the smoke from the fires across this landscape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: One year after the deadly Boeing 737 Max crash of Indonesia, the company's CEO Dennis Muilenburg admitted Boeing made mistakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS MUILENBURG, CEO, BOEING: And what we've learned from both accidents is that we made some mistakes, there's some things we can improve. One of them is this idea of going to a dual sensor feed instead of single, as well as limiting MCAS to a single action or activation during a flight. Those are improvements that we've identified. We take responsibility for that. We feel responsible for our airplanes, and we know that there are some fixes that we need to make. We own that, and we are implementing those fixes going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: A faulty flight stabilizer on the 737 is blamed for two deadly accidents, one last October just off Indonesia, another in Ethiopia in March. There were no survivors from either crash. Muilenburg appeared before Congress with the relatives of the victims seated behind him. He faced some intense questioning from lawmakers. When he often struggled to answer their questions, he did find the words to apologize to the families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUILENBURG: I'm heartbroken by your losses. I think about you and your loved ones every day. And I know our entire Boeing team does as well. I know that probably doesn't offer much comfort and healing at this point. But I want you to know that we carry those memories with us every day. And every day, that drives us to improve the safety of our airplanes and our industry. And that will never stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: CNN Aviation Analyst and former Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo, is with us now from Washington. We should also note that Mary is representing families of those who died in the crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. So, with that out of the way, Mary, it's good to see you.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Thank you.

VAUSE: One of those damning revelations, it seems like we're emerged on Tuesday, centers on the 2016 messages between the two Boeing test pilots. They're describing the MCAS, the flight stabilization system, which was built specifically for the Max, they described it as being fundamentally flawed. Here it is, "the plane is trimming itself like crazy," one pilot wrote in a message. Later adding, "granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious." He wrote the plane had some real fundamental issues that they claim they're aware of."

"I basically lied to the regulators unknowingly," the pilot wrote. Muilenburg admitted they knew of that messages earlier this year before the second crash, but only become aware of the specific detail in recent weeks. So, I want you to listen to how Senator Ted Cruz reacted. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): You're the CEO, the buck stops with you. Did you read this document? And how did your team not put it in front of you, run in with their hair on fire, saying we got a real problem here? How did that not happen? And what does that say about the culture at Boeing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, you won't hear this very often, but Ted Cruz, it seems, is absolutely a hundred percent right.

SCHIAVO: Well, and that line of questioning was particularly well- received in the hearing room. I mean, the hearing room, remember, was half full of families. And then, of course, journalists and lawyers comprise the rest of it. But they had been waiting for someone to press Boeing and to press Muilenburg really, you know, with some tough questioning, because this is not his first hearing, this is a third or fourth hearing that's been held about this subject. And finally, somebody pressed him, but that was the question on everyone's mind. How could you hear that MCAS was behaving so badly on the simulator, which is supposed to be like flying the plane. That's the whole point of the simulator, and not do something about it immediately?

[01:25:06]

VAUSE: Could argument be now made that that second crash involving a Ethiopia Airlines was totally completely avoidable?

SCHIAVO: Absolutely. And I -- and that was because the people in the room were Ethiopia 302 families not Lion Air families, that was exactly what it came across. I mean, it felt like a thud in the hearing room floor. Had they acted at that point then there's a couple other points. So where they -- where they should have acted, it never would have happened. Never.

VAUSE: Then there's Boeing's reaction after the first crash. That was when the 737 went down just off Indonesia. They were saying perhaps it was pilot error. Senator Blumenthal says that's exactly what his office was told directly when they inquired with Boeing, and he was also equally outraged. Here he is.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Those pilots never had a chance. They were in flying coffins as a result of Boeing deciding that it was going to conceal MCAS from the pilots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And the point that Blumenthal was making is that the pilots not having a chance because the MCAS or the MCAS was not included in the pilot manual.

SCHIAVO: And another thing that came out in the Lion Air report that was issued last Friday was that Boeing knew that that was called the angle of attack, disagree (INAUDIBLE) light, which would include them that something was wrong with the angle of attack indicators. They knew that did not work on any plane that did not buy the extra package. And they knew that before as well, knowing that might have saved the plane, as well. So, there are just so many things that have come and -- come out where Boeing knew they had tremendous problems and simply let it go.

VAUSE: And just talk through that, that you know, the disagree warning light, because over and over again, we heard the CEO talking about this company's cultural safety, you know, is paramount, but there's a two tier system of safety when it comes to -- at least to the backup system and let's get paid what additional money for the safety features. But if you can't afford them or you don't want to pay for them like Lion Air and Ethiopia Airlines, what you just crash and kill everyone on board?

SCHIAVO: Yes. And that's particularly outrageous, because 20 years ago in the United States, there was a big drive who was called one level of safety, that we wouldn't treat people for example, on, you know, small commuter lines with less safety than big lines, and that we wouldn't treat different parts of the country differently with safety and safety improvements. And here, that appears what we had, we had two levels of safety or more.

VAUSE: Overall, would you say Muilenburg didn't really have any good answers. Like he didn't address the the entire system, which has Boeing issuing its own safety certification, if you like with FAA oversight, and that seems to be a major systemic problem.

SCHIAVO: Right. He didn't really have any good answers, and several times, he simply would not answer the senator's questions and several senators were quite frustrated and saying, you know, I know -- I know a dodge when I see one. And particularly, the question that he would not answer is one of the senators said, Look, it's time for the FAA to take back the certification. You don't deserve to have the designated authority to do your own inspections and certification. Would you not agree and the Boeing chief would not answered that.

VAUSE: Yes, that was the moment to step up, I guess. And maybe it was a moment missed. But, Mary, as always, thank you so much.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

VAUSE: Up next, their leader is dead. They remain defiant, ISIS followers in prison in Syria say the world has not seen the last of caliphate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [01:32:01]

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for staying with us.

I'm John Vause with the headlines this hour.

The U.K. House of Commons has voted overwhelmingly to hold a general election December 12th. This now moves to the House of Lords where it is expected to pass. Prime Minister Boris Johnson hopes it will clear the Brexit impasse in parliament. The opposition Labour Party calls the election a once in a generation chance to transform the country.

The first witness who was actually listening to President Trump's July Ukraine phone call has testified in the impeachment inquiry. Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman is a Ukraine expert on the National Security Council. He says he was so concerned about the call, he reported it twice to a superior.

In California an unprecedented warning of extreme fire danger with hurricane-force winds threatening to make an already dangerous wildfire situation even worse. More than 26 million people in California and Arizona zones are now under red flag warning.

The details are emerging of a possible new leader for the terror group ISIS. According to the U.S. State Department a man who goes by the name of Hajji Abdullah could be the successor to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi who died during a raid by U.S. Special Forces over the weekend. (INAUDIBLE) $5 million reward was on offer for Hajji's capture.

Even without Baghdadi though as a leader, the E.U. is warning ISIS remains a major threat.

And then there's the estimated 10,000 ISIS prisoners held in Kurdish camps. What will be their fate?

Here's CNN's Sam Kiley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mostly captured on the battlefields, allegedly fighting for the so- called Islamic state, they are malnourished and weakened. But these men still pose a potent threat.

Their guards are from the Kurdish-dominated Syrian Democratic Forces and they are all that stand between these men and freedom to rebuild a terrorist army.

COL. MYLES CAGGINS, SPOKESMAN, OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE: The Syrian Democratic Forces are responsible for detaining nearly 10,000 ISIS fighters. This is their responsibility and a burden that they have shouldered. The coalition provides some advice to that. And we understand that it is a threat that some of the detainees might want to break out and be free.

KILEY (voice-over): Some say they just want to go home, like this man who says he is British.

Since Turkey's incursion into Syria to drive the Kurd-dominated SDF away from its border after decades of conflict with Kurdish separatists, the Kurds say about 800 alleged ISIS fighters have escape from prisons like this one near Hasakah.

Many foreign fighters and their families are held in prisons and camps, their home countries refusing to take them back to face trial, even as the guards dwindle in number and join the fight against Turkey.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are holding thousands of ISIS fighters right now, and Europe has to take them.

And if Europe doesn't take them, I will have no choice but to release them into the countries from which they came, which is Germany and France and other places.

[01:35:04]

KILEY (voice-over): The U.S. president has celebrated the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

TRUMP: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead.

KILEY (voice-over): An estimated 70,000 women and children from ISIS areas are housed in this camp alone. Some of the so-called caliphs' followers remain defiant here even after his death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Hello, did you hear about al-Baghdadi death?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, he is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Huh?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, he is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): You did not hear about the news?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, he is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, I don't want to hear the news. He is not dead, al-Baghdadi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The U.S. president announced his death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, al-Baghdadi is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He is lying, with God will, he is lying.

What do you benefit of recording me? It's better for you to stop and go before I do something. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): You are not sad because al Khalifa is dead?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, we are not sad. One hundred people will come to replace him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think his death means? You think it's over. No, it's not.

KILEY (voice-over): Such threats are being passed down a generation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): God willing, one day you will go through this. A day you will be imprisoned like this. God willing, one day, you will be through what we are going through. God willing, we will imprison you one day. Don't think that the state is over.

KILEY (voice-over): Sam Kiley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: In Lebanon, protesters are celebrating what many are calling a revolution. Prime Minister Saad Hariri resigned Tuesday after nearly two weeks of nationwide demonstrations over government corruption and an economy in turmoil. While protesters are happy to see him go they promised to stay on the streets until all of their demands are met.

With no clear successor in place Hariri will now lead a caretaker government which will be weakened in its ability to deal with the country's economic crisis.

And in Iraq, protesters defied a nighttime curfew for the fifth time taking over Tahrir Square in Baghdad. Many are outraged over the reported killings of demonstrators in their holy city of Kabala (ph) a day earlier. Amnesty International says there is evidence security forces opened fire on peaceful protesters who were staging a sit-in.

And it appears that police tried to run them over with vehicles killing 14 and wounding more than 100. Officials though deny there was any such use of force.

Iraqis have been protesting for weeks now angry over alleged government corruption as well as a lack of jobs and basic services.

And in Chile thousands of protesters back on the streets on Tuesday as well unmoved by government promises of economic reforms and a reshuffled cabinet which saw eight ministers replaced.

The widespread demonstrations were initially sparked by an increase in the cost of public transport but demands were quickly (INAUDIBLE) to nothing less than economic equality. But no single leader for the protesters has actually emerged and that makes negotiations kind of complicated.

Just ahead, in the waters of Cape Town, a maritime mystery. Where are all the great white sharks?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me the loss of the great white sharks is losing part of my soul. You know, this is an animal that -- it shaped my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:40:04]

VAUSE: The waters just off South Africa's Cape Town are the most popular destination on the planet for viewing the great white shark. Only this year many there are asking have you seen a great white shark lately? And the answer is no.

CNN's David McKenzie reports from False Bay.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can throw the cage off the back of the boat.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over ): We've come to dive with an apex predator --

MCKENZIE (on camera): Seal Island is probably the world's most famous location for seeing great white sharks.

(voice-over): -- and we see plenty of sharks.

(on camera): They're incredible. Came right after us -- check this out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, right there -- right there -- right there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): But no great whites.

These sharks are scavengers, not the iconic hunter that made this bay famous. After millions of years, in 2019, the great whites of Cape Town have vanished.

CHRIS FALLOWS, PHOTOGRAPHER, CONSERVATIONIST, ADVENTURER: For me, the loss of the great white sharks is losing part of my soul, you know. This is an animal that -- it shaped my life. It's given me some of the greatest highs of my life.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Chris Fallows, the photographer who put these sharks on the map, is forcing himself to speak in the past tense.

MCKENZIE (on camera): The first time you saw this, what was it like?

FALLOWS: It was unbelievable. I mean, everybody's fascinated by great white sharks, but flying great white sharks? To see this incredible super predator taking to the air showing off its athletic prowess, it was fantastic.

SOLOMON SOLOMON, FISHERMAN: This past season, they haven't seen a single shark.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): On the cliffs above, shark spotters used to take these sightings for granted. This year, they've recorded zero great whites -- not a single one.

MCKENZIE (on camera): What if they don't come back?

SOLOMON: Yes, we're just going to have to wait.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Fisherman like Solomon Solomon say there are more seals now, too, competing for their catch. It seems the ecosystem is already feeling the effects.

SARA ANDREOTTI, MARINE BIOLOGIST: The impact of losing an apex predator for the marine environment is going to be huge.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Biologist Sara Andreotti says the zero sightings is alarming but not surprising. She predicted the collapse years ago. In 2012, by studying genetics, she found that the population was smaller and more vulnerable than anyone imagined.

MCKENZIE (on camera): What were your reaction to the population of great whites in South Africa?

ANDREOTTI: Concern, mostly, but also shock. We were expecting to find a thousand or more individuals around here.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Overfishing, shark poaching, and the weak gene pool have all contributed.

ANDREOTTI: People don't like to listen to sad stories and it is difficult to realize that humans could have had such an impact on such prehistorical iconic predators.

FALLOWS: Unless we really step up our efforts to conserve what we have left, South Africa's once bountiful shores are becoming more and more empty by the day.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): If there's any hope for the great whites to return, he says the focus should now be on what needs to be done, not about what once was.

David McKenzie, CNN -- False Bay, South Africa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause.

Please stay with us. "WORLD SPORT" is up next. You're watching CNN.

[01:43:32]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ("CNN WORLD SPORT")

END