Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Facebook Blocks California Candidate's Fake Ads; NCAA To Permit College Athletes To Profit From Endorsements; Boeing CEO To Face Second Day Of Grilling On Capitol Hill. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 30, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

GUY SNODGRASS, RETIRED U.S. NAVY COMMANDER, FORMER SPEECHWRITER TO SEC. JAMES MATTIS, AUTHOR, "HOLDING THE LINE: INSIDE TRUMP'S PENTAGON WITH SECRETARY MATTIS": -- from topic to topic that had nothing to do with national security. That was the part that I found to be very alarming.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, what do you want -- very alarming -- what do you want readers to take from that?

SNODGRASS: Again, national security is everyone's -- it's important to everyone in America. It's something that has long-lasting ramifications.

You have to -- these are relationships we've developed over the course of seven decades since the conclusion of World War II and suddenly, over a very short amount of time, we have put those at risk. And those -- once they've been lost they are very hard to get back.

So for readers to be able to read for themselves what's really going on behind closed doors, I think will be very powerful.

BERMAN: If you gave Sec. Mattis truth serum and forced him to answer questions about the administration and the current president, what do you think he would say?

SNODGRASS: I would never do that. I would never force Mattis truth serum. That's a dangerous place to put yourself.

But I do think that there -- again, the firsthand account to be able to be in that room, to understand, to show both -- there's a lot of positives.

We've spent time rebuilding America's military. We've spent time increasing our readiness and our lethality and working on our partnerships, bringing ISIS to the brink of destruction and those are all very positive things. But I don't shy away from talking about areas we can do better.

BERMAN: No.

And let me just read you a statement from Sec. Mattis. He did not like the fact that you wrote this, ultimately.

SNODGRASS: You bet.

BERMAN: From his office -- and said his choice -- "Your choice to write a book reveals an absence of character. He was appointed to a position of trust at the Department of Defense, and surreptitiously taking notes without authorization for a self-promoting personal project is a clear violation of that trust. He surrendered his honor."

Just, in closing, your reaction to that statement and how you feel after the struggle to publish this book.

SNODGRASS: Well, as you mention, it was a struggle. Early on in the process, I reached out to Sec. Mattis. I wanted to let him know I was working on the project and he sought to dissuade me. He thought it would not be in my best interest.

The Pentagon subsequently moved over the course of many months to block the book but we worked together to finally get the book released.

As for the characterization of my honor, my service, my integrity -- again, that's something that I define through my actions, not through someone else's words. And that character and that integrity and that loyalty to the nation only counts, and there's a thousand reasons not to be. It's not when it's only politically convenient to speak out.

BERMAN: Listen, retired commander Guy Snodgrass, thank you for being with us this morning. Nice to meet you.

SNODGRASS: You bet. Thanks, John.

BERMAN: And the book is terrific. It's "Holding the Line: Inside Trump's Pentagon with Secretary Mattis" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: John, a landmark decision by the NCAA to compensate college athletes, though not everyone, including some proponents of the idea, are happy about the news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:30]

BERMAN: A San Francisco man says he's considering legal action against Facebook after the social media giant barred him from running fake ads. Adriel Hampton declared his candidacy for governor to run fake ads and call out Facebook regarding its political ad policy.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is here with the latest. And, Donie, your reporting on this has been terrific.

This all has to do with the fact that Facebook says if you are running a political campaign you can lie in your paid ads on Facebook. So this guy called their -- called their bluff, essentially. DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN TECHNOLOGY AND POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, John. I cover this for a living and even I'm having a tough time keeping up with Facebook's changing policies here.

So we have this candidate for governor, Adriel Hampton, who says I'm a candidate. I'm going to run false ads on your platform to prove a point.

Facebook comes back last night and says wait, not so fast. And here's what they told us in a statement.

"This person [Adriel Hampton] has made clear he registered as a candidate to get around our policies, so his content, including ads, will continue to be eligible for third-party fact-checking." Which means he cannot run false ads like every other candidate in the country.

This -- Hampton is not stopping. This has emboldened him and he said that he now considering legal action against the company.

BERMAN: If I'm trying to follow the logic literally here, Facebook is saying only real candidates can lie on our platform, right?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Had Hampton lied about lying -- had he said I'm not going to lie and then lied, they would have let him lie.

So if you -- and this is all happening, right, in the background of -- you have people inside the company, Congress, and a lot of Democrats saying you've guys have to change this policy. We saw two days ago that employees wrote a letter to Mark Zuckerberg and leaders at the company to say stop.

But despite all that, the company came out with an op-ed over the past 24 hours in "USA Today" and they say anyone -- this is from Facebook. "Anyone who thinks Facebook should decide which claims by politicians are acceptable might ask themselves this question. Why do you want us to have so much power?"

BERMAN: They just decided which claims were acceptable --

O'SULLIVAN: And who's a candidate.

BERMAN: -- and who's a candidate or not. This is really, really challenging to figure out what's going on here because it doesn't seem like the goal is truth.

O'SULLIVAN: This is -- they've got themselves into a mess here really. And, you know, it's strange, I think, to see this op-ed, particularly in the past 24 hours, when there are so many people in the company -- hundreds of people saying guys, what you're doing here is not right. But the Facebook leadership seems to be sticking with -- sticking with the plan.

BERMAN: All right. Prediction -- is this a tenable policy until the first votes in Iowa do you think?

O'SULLIVAN: I think we'll be talking about it a lot more.

BERMAN: All right, Donie O'Sullivan. This doesn't seem tenable in any which way. Really appreciate your reporting on this.

O'SULLIVAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Erica.

HILL: A major announcement from the NCAA. College athletes will be allowed to profit from their names and likeness.

That news prompting both praise and caution from sports stars like LeBron James, who tweeted, "It's a beautiful day." He went on to say, though, "Not a victory but a start."

The NCAA is hoping to implement the policy change by January of 2021.

Joining me now is Ramogi Huma. He's a former UCLA football player and the executive director of the National College Players Association. Great to have you with us.

You've said this is really not a whole lot. This is just smoke and mirrors. Why?

RAMOGI HUMA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COLLEGE PLAYERS ASSOCIATION, FORMER UCLA FOOTBALL PLAYER: Well, on one hand, the announcement is a significant milestone in the fact the pressure brought by the state of California, the pressure brought by lawmakers in other states and in Congress have finally forced the NCAA to acknowledge that college athletes deserve something for use of their name and likeness.

However, the NCAA did not approve compensation for players and I think that's what the confusion is about.

[07:40:00]

The NCAA specifically authorized benefits and benefits, in terms of the NCAA, they've been very clear. Benefits in this issue must be related to educational expenses.

So if you picture a player doing a Nike commercial, the NCAA would make sure that Nike wouldn't be able to pay the player in cash. That maybe Nike pays the player in things like a school parking pass or optional textbooks.

So this is not anything that's significantly different than what the NCAA has been saying.

The other thing is that the NCAA -- when they tried to kill the California bill, they promised a proposal that would actually solve the problem.

The NCAA did not make any proposal whatsoever in October -- here we are. The NCAA, instead, is asking 1,100 schools across three divisions to consider possibly making a proposal that they may consider in 2021. HILL: So, to that --

HUMA: So it's a big difference.

HILL: And to that point, I just want to play part of what NCAA president Mark Emmert said in noting that there's still a lot of work to do. Let's take a listen to that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK EMMERT, PRESIDENT, NCAA: Figuring out all the details of it is going to be a challenge. It's a much more complex issue than most people see it as and I understand that. But I think that the schools are going to be able to work through this process and come up with rules that make great sense for the student-athletes and allow universities to continue their collegiate model of athletics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It's a big challenge. We're going to push it to the schools to let them figure it out.

What do you think is going to be the biggest hurdle to getting everybody on board?

HUMA: Well, first of all, those are the same arguments that the NCAA and the colleges had made in fighting the California bill. Leave it to us, we'll solve the problem. They've had years and years to solve this problem and it's not happening.

You know, California took the first step. Other lawmakers are actually proposing laws in other states, which we're helping to support.

If the NCAA wants something uniform they can simply adopt what California has already provided college athletes in the state of California and make it uniform nationwide. The NCAA -- the only thing that makes it difficult, as Mark Emmert says, is that they don't want to do that. They want to scale back and roll back these rights, and they're trying to find a way to do that.

So, for us, it's full steam ahead. We've been in contact with lawmakers to give them a proper analysis of the situation. All indications are that things are going to still go forward in other states as well.

HILL: In terms of what lawmakers have today to say, Republican Sen. Richard Burr, of North Carolina, tweeting, "If college athletes are going to make money off their likenesses while in school, their scholarships should be treated like income. I'll be introducing legislation that subjects scholarships given to athletes who choose to 'cash in' to income taxes."

What's your response to that?

HUMA: Well, I think first, there was a massive bipartisan backlash against that statement. I don't think that bill would have a chance in Congress.

The other thing that's interesting is that Sen. Burr actually opposes college athletes being treated as employees. A couple of years ago he said that and now he's talking about income taxes and treating college athletes as employees. I think he's having a disagreement with himself, publicly. But I think at the end of the day, that really doesn't have any kind of potential.

HILL: Yes.

HUMA: I think what does have potential is the name, image, and likeness bill that has been shown to the House -- bipartisan support in the State Houses across the nation and in Congress, itself.

HILL: And do you think that has a better chance than, say, pulling together a plan by January of 2021?

HUMA: Well, not just a better chance -- we've already seen it happen in California -- but also the effect that the lawmakers are looking for. They're not looking at restricting players in ways that other students are restricted and other citizens aren't restricted. Following the California model it just says look --

HILL: Yes.

HUMA: -- you have equal rights. You have equal freedoms here in this state and now we have a law to protect that.

The NCAA is looking at anything it can do to scale that back. So I think the NCAA -- what they're -- what they're planning to do will be a non-starter, plus it will be too late if states like Florida and Pennsylvania are looking to act in 2020 -- the effective dates in 2020. The NCAA is talking about 2021.

HILL: I really appreciate you joining us today. Ramogi Huma, great to have your voice on it. So we'll continue to follow it. Thank you.

HUMA: Thank you.

HILL: John.

BERMAN: Classes canceled again in the country's third-largest school district. So how is the teachers' strike affecting students? We have a live report from Chicago, next.

[07:48:35]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): You're the CEO. The buck stops with you.

Did you read this document and how did your team not put it in front of you -- run in with their hair on fire saying we've got a real problem here? How did that not happen and what does that say about the culture at Boeing?

SEN. JON TESTER (D-MT): I would walk before I was to get on a 737 MAX. I would walk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Bipartisan concern and grilling for Boeing.

The CEO, Dennis Muilenburg, he will be back on Capitol Hill today for a second day of questioning after facing senators and confronted by grieving family members. More than a dozen of them sat behind Muilenburg yesterday holding large pictures of loved ones they lost in 737 MAX crashes.

Joining me now is CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.

And, Miles, I know you were watching that hearing along with the rest of us. I'm, frankly, surprised in some cases by what Muilenburg said and admitted to knowing. He testified --

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST, SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT, PBS "NEWSHOUR": Yes, it was --

BERMAN: Go ahead.

O'BRIEN: -- it was an interesting mix, John.

BERMAN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

But it was an interesting mix of -- he was very contrite and turned around to the families and offered what he said were sincere apologies. But when it came time to answering specific questions from the lawmakers there was a lot of evasion.

So this story is just still unfolding and continues to. And you have to ask some questions about where it leads and could there possibly be a big criminal case here.

[07:50:00]

BERMAN: And to that end, it seems to be the central issue is the fact that a pilot warned Boeing -- had raised alarms about the safety of the 737 MAX and particularly, the MCAS system, which ultimately contributed, we think, to both of the crashes.

So what's your reaction to hearing Muilenburg's testimony on that?

O'BRIEN: Absolutely stunning, absolutely stunning.

These two senior pilots exchanging text conversations indicating the system, which is a culprit of both of the crashes -- the term was "egregious" -- the way the system acted in the simulator. The fact that Muilenburg was aware of this is just stunning that there was not an immediate grounding of the aircraft.

You know, there was enough public information -- and I've said this to you before. After the first crash in Indonesia, there was enough public information out there to ground the fleet. They knew they had a fundamental fleetwide problem that could cause catastrophic problems and fatalities and yet, the aircraft were not grounded.

But we now know also, behind closed doors, Muilenburg and others at the senior levels were aware of these complaints by pilots. So it's a pretty stunning case of -- well, the company says it can self-police. This might be prima facie evidence that it can't.

BERMAN: You have questions about possible criminal liability here. It gets to that in your mind.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's the thing. The aviation industry in the United States is built on the assumption that there's -- no criminal charges are generally brought forth because they don't want to have the criminal prospecting -- a chilling effect -- something that impedes safety.

In other words, if people feel like they're going to be criminally charged they may not self-report. Of course, the irony here is that the issue at hand here is a lack of self-reporting.

So, criminal charges don't often succeed in these cases. They have been brought. I would look for that to occur in this case for sure.

BERMAN: Sen. Jon Tester from Montana had the line of the day, perhaps, when he said he will not fly in a 737 MAX. He'd rather walk, he said.

It does beg the question will the 737 MAX ever fly again?

O'BRIEN: The burden of proof that it is a safe aircraft is very high right now and it's hard to say right now whether Boeing can come back to the market with this aircraft given all that is unfolding right now. We may never see the 737 MAX in service.

They might have to do what probably should have been done in the first place, which is recertify new aircraft. The 737 first flew in 1968 and to say that that same certification is relevant to the aircraft of today is quite a stretch.

BERMAN: I want to listen to a little bit of what Muilenburg said yesterday, as you pointed out, expressing condolences and apologizing, basically, for what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS MUILENBURG, CEO, THE BOEING COMPANY: We can and must do better. We've been challenged and changed by these accidents. We've made mistakes and we got some things wrong. We're improving and we're learning, and we're continuing to learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Do you think Muilenburg's role as CEO is tenable going forward, Miles? O'BRIEN: It's going to be difficult. Obviously, there's always been a shake-up. He's already been demoted from chairman. His head of commercial aviation has been replaced.

It's -- you know, maybe this is just a matter of timing. I don't know how this is all going to play out.

But generally speaking, if there are criminal charges, the criminal charges are brought forth against individuals, not the corporation. That's typically how it goes. You just don't know where this is headed but it sure seems like there is a lot there for a potential criminal case.

Having said that, there -- Boeing has plenty of other troubles separate from that as far as the civil litigation. Hopefully, in the end, this will lead to some significant changes in the regulations so that the FAA is able to inspect and understand these highly complex aircraft as they're developed.

BERMAN: Look, and that's the positive here -- if something changes so this doesn't or can't happen again.

Miles O'Brien, thank you so much. Always great to see you. Thanks for helping us understand what's been going on here.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome, John.

BERMAN: Erica.

HILL: Classes canceled once again today as Chicago's teachers' strike enters its 10th day. Union officials, though, now signaling the possibility that a tentative deal could be reached today.

CNN's Ryan Young is live in Chicago this morning with more. Ryan, good morning.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

And you're talking about 10 days and this has been very hard on the students. In fact, there are several athletes who are waiting, hoping, and praying that today is the day the strike comes to an end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They locked the gate.

RYAN (voice-over): Still, no deal between the Chicago Teachers Union and the Chicago Public School System. The strike now 10 days, the longest in nearly 30 years.

JESSE SHARKEY, PRESIDENT, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: I think a lot of the big things. You know, I think I can see where they're going to land or I can see they will land.

But, you know, we haven't settled everything. There's still some other stuff. LORI LIGHTFOOT, MAYOR, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: I really, really hope that they do the right thing and that they move forward so that all of our young people can get back in class.

YOUNG (voice-over): High school senior Ian Bacon has likely had his cross country season cut short because of the strike.

[07:55:05]

IAN BACON, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: It's just really disappointing that our season had to end this way.

YOUNG (voice-over): Bacon learned the hard way that state rules don't allow athletes to compete during the strike. Students who play volleyball, football, and tennis have also been impacted.

BACON: It's disappointing just to see that all not necessarily go to waste but --

KEVIN STERLING, FATHER OF HIGH SCHOOL JUNIOR: Barring some miracle, the seniors -- they are a lot of seniors who will never run a cross country race -- an organized cross country race again.

JOSE RIVERA, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: Mainly, I've been just doing the homework that was due before and coming out here a lot practicing.

YOUNG (voice-over): For seniors Jose Rivera and Jacob Hirschtritt, normally, their entire baseball team would be here practicing. They are now worried about the impact the strike is having on their early college application process.

JACOB HIRSCHTRITT, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: It's already stressful enough, so I think the teachers' strike definitely adds to that. And to not have someone professionally able to like read my essay. It's a little nerve-racking when I'm submitting college apps with multiple different essays I'm not fully confident in.

YOUNG (voice-over): Jacob tells me many of his friends have even applied for extensions from colleges in hopes of buying some extra time. And many seniors have also missed ACT and SAT testing dates.

HIRSCHTRITT: So, for me, what's in jeopardy is early applications -- in particular, to Fordham. I was recently given an extension to that school, but I don't know if I'll make the extension date even with this because of the strike continuing longer than maybe they even expected.

YOUNG (voice-over): The teachers' strike started on October 17th with 25,000 teachers walking off the job in the country's third-largest school district. Nearly 300,000 students have been out of school. Class size and staffing are two of the issues holding up an agreement.

STERLING: These kids have become the collateral damage for this strike.

HIRSCHTRITT: I hope this strike ends soon. I'd like to get back to school and get my essays read and meet with my teachers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: And already, more impact. The PSAT was scheduled for today. That's been canceled.

There's also another high school on the other side of town -- Simeon High School -- that has a high school football playoff. If teachers don't come back to school today they will not be able to play in that playoff, ending those kids' season -- which would be very hard, obviously, for those athletes.

HILL: Such a ripple effect there.

All right, Ryan, continue to stay on it for us. Thank you.

And thanks to our international viewers for watching. For you, "CNN NEWSROOM" with Max Foster is next.

For our U.S. viewers, big developments in the impeachment investigation. NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vindman's testimony is testimony about a cover-up. What was presented to the American people as an official record of this phone call, this witness is saying was at the very least incomplete.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The president's allies would like nothing better than to help the president out this whistleblower.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We're trying to get information. Adam Schiff won't let the witness answer questions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Democrats unveiled their new resolution. They will vote on Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an attempt to dress it up a little bit to try and give it the sheen of legitimacy.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Republicans haven't been very cooperative as it relates to what we've been trying to do in the context of presenting the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, October 30th. It's 8:00 in the East.

Alisyn on assignment. Erica Hill joins me this morning. Great to have you here.

HILL: Nice to be back with you. BERMAN: Busy, busy morning.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Just one hour from now the next witness in the impeachment inquiry will sit down with House investigators and we have breaking new details on some of what today's witnesses will say. And it all really paints the same picture of a shadow foreign policy to benefit the president personally. And the testimony tells the same story about concerns coming from within the administration.

CNN has learned the Christopher Anderson, a career foreign service officer, will tell lawmakers that during a meeting in mid-June, National Security adviser John Bolton cautioned officials about Rudy Giuliani's influence on U.S. policy towards Ukraine.

And, Katherine Croft, special adviser for Ukraine, will describe a meeting that happened one week before President Trump's phone call with the Ukrainian president where she learned there was an informal hold on aid to Ukraine. That's the money -- a hold at the direction of the president.

HILL: There are also new details about the testimony of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman. "The New York Times" reporting the White House Ukraine expert sought to correct the transcrape of the -- transcript, rather -- the rough transcript of the president's Ukraine call.

Key changes, though, were never made. In fact, one of the edits was an ellipsis that you would see in that rough transcript where Vindman says President Trump was discussing Joe Biden.

His account actually contradicts what the White House told us when asked about this ellipsis. The White House said those were just pauses -- that they did not indicate any missing words or phrases. That would be shown with brackets.

House Democrats unveiling the text of the impeachment resolution. A full House vote is set for tomorrow.

BERMAN: All right. Joining me now is the chair of the House Democratic Caucus, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Congressman Jeffries, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

One of the headlines coming from the testimony from Col. Alexander Vindman yesterday is he said there was information missing from the transcript of the call released.

END