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THE VAN JONES SHOW

Tonight Ends A Big Week In American History; House Minority Whip Steve Scalise Accused Democrats Of Holding Soviet Style Impeachment Proceedings; Discussion On Issues Of Impeachment Inquiry With Rep. Max Rose (D-NY) And Rep. Mikie Sherrill (D-NJ); Pramila Jayapal Explains The Medicare For All Accusations Among Democrats; There Has Been A Big Push To Mobilize The Hip Hop Community To Come Out To Vote In 2020. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired November 2, 2019 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN JONES, CNN HOST: All right, good evening and welcome to THE VAN JONES SHOW." Tonight ends a big week in American history. The House of Representatives formalize procedures that could lead to the impeachment of the President of the United States. That's huge. The only thing bigger was the partisan divide that was on full display when it went down.

Not one Republican voted for the resolution, not one. Only two Democrats opposed it from conservative district in tight raises and going forward, he would expect more of the same this division. Republicans are going to focus one slideshows and stunts but no President can set up an appeared shadow diplomacy run by Rudy Giuliani to go out and collect political favors for himself and Republicans know that.

On the other hand Democrats are going to keep pooh poohing the Republicans growing concerns about due process forgetting that millions of Republican voters also need to feel this process is fair. So listen, investigation should go forward, but we pretty much already know what we're going to get out of this whole thing, party line votes and vote chambers, Trump still in office and deeper divisions in America. That's where we are.

So if we've got to go through this, let's not make it worse by speaking about each other so harshly. House Minority Whip Steve Scalise accused Democrats of holding Soviet style impeachment proceedings. Trump called his Republican critics human scum and some Trump allies actually went after anybody who testified this week even Republicans including a decorated war veteran and it's not just Republicans you got people screaming lock him up to Trump at a baseball game.

Hillary Clinton attacking a fellow Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, people are smashing on Ellen for sitting next to George W. Bush at a cowboy's game. Nastiness has just taken over everything. I'm just as guilty myself sometimes. Last weekend, I was at a criminal justice summit in Charleston, South Carolina for the first time in my life, presidential candidates from both parties including Trump are going to be in one place, finally acknowledging that the prison system is too big, too bloated too unfair that is a big turnaround for recent years where Republicans and Democrats were going around promising more prisons, so I was pumped but then Kamala Harris pulled out because Trump was being honored there.

I know Trump has caused a lot of pain and lot of fear in our communities so it is very hard to see him get positive credit for anything sometimes. But on this one topic, he did sign a breakthrough bipartisan bill that has so far freed thousands of people from federal prison and that bill has sparked copycat bills to state levels helping even more people.

As much hell as we rightfully give Trump when he does wrong, it is only fair to give him a little bit of credit when he does something right. So I tweeted out something snarky about Kamala not coming and black Twitter tore me up, okay? You know what? They were right because my tone was off.

I should have tweeted, Kamala, please come, it's important we needed your voice. That's always in my heart it was not in my tweet. Now luckily Kamala came anyway, so did Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Mayor Pete and other folks and Donald Trump and they all did a great job, history was made but rather than putting anybody down I should have been lifting up.

In this toxic environment, all of us, myself included have to work hard to not let the nastiness pull us down. Luckily my first guests are case studies in taking the high ground doing what's right, bringing people together please welcome THE VAN JONES SHOW Representatives Max Rose and Mikie Sherrill.

(APPLAUSE)

JONES: Welcome back, both of you. Oh, my goodness. You, two are in purple districts. You are not in a big rush and you weren't out there jumping around saying we need to impeach Donald Trump. Were you surprised by how partisan it was and how party line it was, and how do we get other people to come to get around this?

REP. MAX ROSE, (D-NY): First of all thanks for having us. Mikie and I were around about a year ago, you're a good luck charm because we both won.

JONES: I know.

ROSE: So look, I - we have been in Congress now for a year or so, and I can remember what it's like not to be in Congress and when you turn on that TV, I remember seeing the news when I was deployed to Afghanistan. You see elected officials just fighting with each other and it doesn't look like they're working at the facts and it looks like they have allegiance to politics. That's what I see happening right now. The Republican Party, you know, they have every opportunity as we are looking at incredibly serious allegations backed up by very serious witnesses. This is credible stuff here. They have every opportunity to put the country and the constitution ahead of their own politics and as we enter into this second phase and these things become public, I certainly pray, and I hope that they'll start to put the country first.

[19:05:00]

JONES: What are you guys hearing in you - you have got very purple districts. Trump won both of your districts? What do you hear when you go home and talk about his issue? Are people mad at you? Are they proud of you? What's going on?

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Well, I think when you are in a purple district you hear from all different kinds of people which I think is really helpful and it makes us more effective legislators to try understand all sides of issues and to try to build the broad coalitions of people who need to move the country forward but I will say that I have been surprised in my district the support for the investigation. I think people want to know exactly what happened.

JONES: Yes. Same thing with you?

ROSE: Yes, look, these are patriotic districts. They're not Trump districts they're not Rose districts. What I often hear though in my community is deep cynicism about the state of our politics. I often hear, well, Max, I understand that Donald Trump may have done something wrong, but everybody does this, you know, and I don't trust the facts and this is a witch hunt.

We can't ignore that cynicism as something of just stupid deplorables. Now people are incredibly bright and they're incredibly smart and cognizant of the fact that we've seen multiple generations of transactional politics, elected officials that have been bought off by a system and they have lied to their voters. We have got to invest in trust building and I also think we should be coupling this with substantive and comprehensive anti-corruption efforts to earn people's trust back so the next time something like this happens irrespective of party they believe in their elected officials.

SHERRILL: I think Max is exactly right here and that's what I've been saying. We're not fighting against the perception that the President did something wrong. Most people on both sides of the aisle will admit that he did something wrong. He put his own self interests ahead of the interests of the United States and our national security.

However, what people seem to be arguing over is this idea that, oh, that's what everybody does. We're here to day that's not what everybody does. We've never done that in our service to our country. We know tens of hundreds of people on both sides of the aisle that have never done that when they've always put their country first. So the cynicism this deeply held cynicism in the American electorate is really worrying. JONES: We know both of you guys are veterans and served so honorably. As a veteran how did you feel when you saw Vindman a decorated veteran who went to testify be vilified by conservative media as if he was a traitor to the country?

SHERRILL: That was horrible. I mean, we both were in the uniform. We've served with people that weren't born in this country and we've seen their honorable service and especially to see the Lieutenant Colonel and all he's done in his career it was important to me to see that people on both sides of the aisle in the House stood up and said that that was unacceptable.

ROSE: It's disgusting and anybody who echoes those sentiments has no right for the rest of their public facing career to ever claim the mantel of patriotism to ever claim the mantel of the flag because what is this country if not a beacon and a magnet for anyone around the world that wants to pursue the American dream not just for themselves but for their loved ones as well. It was horrific.

JONES: I'm curious how you think of Baghdadi. He was killed. I remember when Obama got Osama Bin Laden, Democrats cheered, but there was immediate response from Republicans and now I see the reverse. Are you concerned that the country has gotten so political now that even when a major enemy of the United States is taken off the board half the country stays silent?

SHERRILL: I'm incredibly concerned about that. We've seen the treatment of a Lieutenant Colonel by certain right-wing media because he's testifying about things that he feels he has to testify about, but they're not good for the President. We've seen a muted response from Democrats on Baghdadi.

When it comes to issues of national security and patriotism and our allies across the world, this is where we should all be together. I serve on the House Armed Services Committee. It is one of the most bipartisan committees in the House because we are interested in the future of the United States and keeping people here safe and that should be - that should always be a shared value.

ROSE: Look, I publicly offered my recognition of the President after Baghdadi was killed. I think it's a good thing for our national security and I think it's a good thing for global security. He was evil and he got the death that he was deserving of. But with that being said what we have to move beyond is celebrating these types of killings, and I certainly don't want to see our culture glorifying this type of violence, but it is certainly something that had to happen, and our soldiers put themselves in harm's way and they do it each and every day and there are missions run like that every week that we never hear about it and those soldiers doing those missions that never make the news also deserve recognition.

[19:10:00]

JONES: Let's talk about Syria the abandonment of the Kurds. How much damage does it do when Donald Trump and the United States walk away from the Kurds who were our great allies and have put so much blood on the ground in Syria, the Kurds?

SHERRILL: We have fought alongside allies across the world for most of our career. We work with foreign countries and we know how our allies promote our democracy and promote our power across the world and our ideals and our vision for the world to see us backing away from the Kurds who have fought alongside us who have really carried the burden of the ISIS fight in Syria when we as Americans were already engaged in other wars and didn't have the will to send more troops in, the Kurds have lost over 11,000 people.

So this is not simply oh, we paid them money and a mercenary army. These are people who have given their lives to aid us in our fight against ISIS and then we abandon them.

ROSE: My issue here with what the President did was not that it didn't allow for a Kurdistan to arise and we knew that was not going to happen and he did it so quickly and without the assistance and alliance of anyone else that we have ISIS prisoners streaming out of their jails putting not only Western Europe in danger, but the United States in danger, too, because remember this, the number one threat that we face today is that of self-radicalized lone gunmen who have been radicalized by an ideology online and they now have the image and the message of ISIS soldiers streaming out of jails and the resurgence of the caliphate and that something that we don't want.

JONES: Both of you guys ran for office not talking about any of the stuff we have been talking about. You were passionate about the opioid crisis, Max. And you've been passionate about infrastructure. Are you concerned now that because of impeachment the office division some of the stuff you ran for office to do won't get done or won't be even talked about?

ROSE: That was a Republican talking point. They put millions of dollars into all of our districts saying over investigate does not legislate or something to that effect. Let's look back two months ago, three months ago, when we are passing legislation that only gets sent to the Senate to die in the legislate graveyard that is known as Mitch McConnell Senate.

So this idea, this narrative that it had this that is killing robust in bold legislation I think is a total fallacy. We're still getting things done. Mikie is getting substantive things that were are not getting out. Sea wall build on the east shores that - sanctions put on Chinese pharmaceutical companies that are shipping Fentanyl and to off shores killing kids throughout the country and throughout the world.

So there's still stuff happening here but the constitution has got to be upheld. We swore an oath to the constitution and not to politics and not to the Democratic Party and that's the same oath that we swore when we enlisted in the military and we're going to maintain a commitment to that.

JONES: You get an Amen for that.

SHERRILL: Do I have an Amen for that. That's exactly right and we'll continue to work on these things. We just passed last week two great veterans bills. We also passed a bill to make sure Trent Kelly pass the gold star families bill to make sure that we have fellowships for veterans on the Hill, so that when we're making these life and death decisions of sending out troops Overseas we have people on the Hill who can speak really eloquently about what exactly we're doing when we do that.

And the sacrifices some families will make. We've put money into infrastructure we're going to pass a healthcare bill to bring healthcare cost down. We passed the first stand alone gun bill, gun safety bill, universal background checks but it's been over 200 days since we passed that. So we're passing these we're going to continue to pass good legislation for the American people but again, it's not impeachment that's holding us up and it's Mitch McConnell refusing to move forward on legislation that really would help broad groups of the American people.

JONES: You guys should be a lot louder about that?

ROSE: Yes, and just one last point one thing we did also pass was a truly awe-inspiring pro-democracy and anti-corruption bill and HR-1. Now Mitch McConnell's voters voted to drain the swamp and I believe that they still support that. So I'm eager to see what Mitch McConnell's word is, and what his message is to his own constituents as he lets HR-1 languish in the Senate. Mitch McConnell is of the swamp and he's not draining it and I believe he is going to suffer the consequences for that next election.

JONES: Oh, well we will see. I can't tell you much that I appreciate having you both. Give them a round of applause. Democracy, I love it. Thank you, very, very much.

Now we're going to California. The fires are continuing to rage in that state, threatening communities up and down the state. This seems like it's the new normal out there, but it's not normal. We're going to hear what it's like to be on the ground and what we can be doing about this crisis from my friend, my next guest, the Governor of the great state of California, Gavin Newsom when we get back.

[19:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JONES: Fires continue to rage throughout California. Thousands of people who have been forced to evacuate their homes this week and tens of thousands of acres have been burned. Firefighters are putting their lives on the line to protect people and historic landmarks. If you think this keeps happening, you are correct.

Eight of the ten largest fires in the history of California have happened in the past 12 years and this is the impact of climate change and climate crisis playing out right in front of our eyes. Let's talk about this with my next guest. He's the Governor of California. He is my good friend Gavin Newsom. Give him a round of applause right there.

(APPLAUSE)

JONES: Listen, I know how difficult it is out there. What are you seeing and how are the people of California holding up in this crisis?

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D-CA): Well, you're seeing humanity at scale. You're seeing heroism at scale. You're seeing remarkably talented firefighters, not just state firefighters, but those mutual aid that we count on from other states and the Governor of Oregon sent 75 engines down in to California. The Governor of Washington state sent 25 additional engines.

So it's a remarkable moment where it gives you just time to pause and reflect that people can come together across their differences. People can rise up and step up and so in that spirit, it's been enlivening, but of course, very, very challenging.

JONES: Speaking of people coming together. You tweeted to President Trump some thanks in appreciation. You guys don't usually get along. What have your conversations been like with him and the rest of the federal government?

[19:20:00]

NEWSOM: Well, we haven't had a chance to dialogue directly and I've reached out to him few times, but the bottom line is his administration and his staff has been extraordinarily helpful. Femur has not played any politics. His National Security/Homeland Security Director has been incredibly helpful.

We've asked for assistance so we call this FMAG process, which is a fire management assistant grant they've provided seven to the State of California. It's nice to see that at these times we're want at cross hares we're not doing the usual dance, but that does not deny that there are some fundamental differences that connect the dot as you have connected to the larger issues of climate change and fire suppression where we certainly don't see eye to eye.

JONES: Listen, let's talk about some of the challenges with the PG&E. Look, you've got the big utility out there and people are very frustrated. Should PG&E be taking over? What needs to happen to get the utility on the side of fire suppression and not doing these blackouts all of the time?

NEWSOM: When I took the oath of office ten months ago they had just filed for bankruptcy coming out as you said on - at the top of the show, coming out of the two most destructive wildfire seasons back-to- back, 2017 and 2018.

People may recall the camp fire in Northern California that took 85 lives and 19,000 structures were destroyed in that historic fire. That was it for that utility and as a consequence they filed for bankruptcy and we're doing everything in our power to re-imagine that utility.

They regardless, they're in the process, as you noted of these what we call PSPS these Power Safety Shutoffs and these blackouts that impacted millions of California. So you have these wildfires on top of that these blackouts these two things cannot continue and this can't be the new normal and we're going to hold them to account and have them come out of bankruptcy completely re-imagined. It's decades of mismanagement, focusing on shareholders and short term ism on bonuses not on public safety they got us here. Years and years of disinvestment into undergrounding the utility, hardening their polls and transmission lines segmenting their system with micro grids making it more modern and more resilient. They're going to come out of this process completely re-imagined utility focused on public safety focusing on grounding and certainly advancing our low carbon, green growth goals.

JONES: Well, listen I have got my family in California is my loved time there. Some people are saying the states is becoming unlivable because of the fires because of the housing price and other sort of stuff. Talk a little bit about the hope you see on the horizon for a state like California, given all the challenges coming down on your shoulders and the rest of the state?

NEWSOM: Let me just establish a couple of frames of reference. California is enjoying record surpluses as the federal government is enjoying record deficits. We are significantly outperforming the rest of the nation. Our domestic product meaning our economic growth, we're the fifth largest economy in the world. 115 consecutive months of net job growth, remarkably, this fire season has been below average.

We actually were able to suppress the vast majority of these fires and heroism up and down the state in ways that we haven't in the past and we've pre-positioned more assets than we've ever had and the states are operating in extreme ways. And we're also going to tackle head on the issue of homelessness and affordability $2.75 billion we put them in this year's budget to jump-start our efforts.

We're just getting started in California the best days are in front of us and not behind us. Do not buy those arguments and don't believe these headlines totality or say - tell the whole story of the state of California.

JONES: Listen, I believe in you and I believe the state of California. And I'll tell you, I've watched you out there yourself being personally on the front lines trying to support those fire fighters and it means a lot to them and a lot to us and thank you for being a part of "The Van Jones Show." Hang in there sir.

NEWSOM: Great to be with you. Thanks Van.

JONES: When we get back, another important topic this week. There are big questions for big tech right now from the impact on our political process to the handling of our private information. There's a new push to give all us a lot more control of our personal data. I'll explain that to you when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:25:00]

JONES: Big tech is back in the spotlight. This week Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey announced that he's actually banning political ads from their social media site. He said political message reach should be earned and not bought. He also says paying to increase the reach of political speech has significant ramifications that today's democratic infrastructure may not be prepared to handle.

But on the other hand, Mark Zuckerberg is defending Facebook's handling of political ads when he was pressed about their policy of not fact checking those ads. So listen, we've really got to pay attention to all this stuff. Luckily, some people have started to ask more questions about the algorithmic intelligence that impacts what shows up on our screens every day. Let's face it.

We are basically living in a giant social experiment right now and the issue can get pretty complicated. So I put together in an explainer to break it all down for you? Take a look.

Whenever you download an app or post a social media or shop online or even just browse around the Interweb, websites are collecting your personal data and creating a profile of you. That can mean anything from your credit card information to your social security number, your search history, your household income and even your location.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have built a little data voodoo doll of each and every one of us. They know literally everything that we've ever touched. Digitally, they have all of that data. It informs our Facebook and Instagram news feeds and so we think we're seeing the full range of choices available us to, but we're not, we're only seeing the ones they give.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now buying and selling consumer data has become big business. Third party companies collect it they distribute it and various vendors use it to target you with specific ads based on your virtual profile and the kicker is they don't even legally have to inform you, so you often have no idea who has access to your data or how it's being used.

Say let's say you buy a diaper bag, cocoa butter and vitamins from an online store. That store may then use the data to not only guess that you're pregnant, but also to estimate your due date and send you extremely targeted ads and coupons.

[19:30:00]

JONES: A global survey shows most people want much more transparency in how their data is being used. And now some politicians are starting to whistle. 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful Andrew Yang has put the data debate front and center in this campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW YANG (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This way we can fight back against big tech companies is to say our data is our property. Right now, our data is worth more than oil. How many of you remember getting your data check in the mail? It got lost it went to Facebook Amazon and Google.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: His plan to make data a property right would mean you would have the right to own your own data. Know who is collecting your data and how it's being used. Opt out of data collection and sharing and have your data related to you deleted upon your request and be informed of data breaches that include your information.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YANG: We all have different data preferences. What we need to do is we need to have the data be ours and then be able to express that and hope that if you even willing to individualize and personalize it, the value that actually shoots up and you can get a little bit in return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: This idea of owning your own data is gaining a lot of traction. California's brand new Consumer Privacy Act is said to go into effect on January 1st. It will be the most aggressive consumer data law in the country.

Democratic Senator Ron White authored the Mind Your Own Business Act which would slap companies with huge fees and could even send executives to jail for mismanaging private consumer data.

Other countries and the European Union have passed strict data privacy and the right to be forgotten laws and there are several lawsuits against big tech companies in court right now. Musician Will - in an op-ed, he said personal data needs to be regarded as a human right just like access to water is a human right. The ability for people to own and control their data should be considered an essential human value. The data itself should be treated like property and people should be fairly compensated for it.

JONES: Look, another big issue, this week Elizabeth Warren released her plan to pay for Medicare for all and so got some big concerns about that becoming the Democratic Party's platform, but when we get back I got someone who is going to tell me why I'm wrong. She wants to convince me to see that Medicare for all is the right way to go when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:00]

JONES: All right now. Senator Elizabeth Warren is answering her critics. She released her plan on how she'd pay for Medicare for all. Unlike Bernie Sanders, Warren says no middle class tax increases period. She said the burden is going to fall on states, on employers, big business and the wealthy to pay for the estimated $20 trillion price tag.

Now look, I've been pretty candid and I have got some concerns about Medicare for all and I've been getting an earful from my progressive friends telling me that I'm wrong. So I said, listen, I want to have somebody come on here and help me see it a different way. Welcome to THE VAN JONES SHOW Author of the House Medicare for all bill and the Co-Chair of the progressive caucus, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal in House on "The Van Jones Show."

I can't tell you - I've known you for a long time and you've been a champion and hero. I just wanted to say at a philosophical level, I don't even think we should have insurance for health period and insurance should be for stuff you're not sure about. You're not sure your if your house is going to will catch on fire, get fire insurance. And you're not sure you'll get crop, get crop insurance.

Every right sure against your doctor so I would rather not have insurance of whether just have healthcare but right now people do have health care insurance and so that's really, I think the rub of it. You can take something away from somebody. Tell us what's good about Medicare for all. And let's walk through some of the concerns.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL, (D-WA): I want to tell you why I'm a believer and why I wrote the bill?

JONES: Yes.

JAYAPAL: That is that today in America people are dying because they don't have health care.

JONES: Sure.

JAYAPAL: You've been across the country you've heard this. This is not an issue we have to explain to everybody. They literally are seeing their loved ones die. They are making choices every day about whether they're going to pay their mortgage or whether they're going to get their cancer treatment. They're driving to Canada because insulin costs 10 times as much in the United States of America.

Their primary insurance plan is go fund me. That is where we are today. We have 70 million people who are uninsured or underinsured but even if you have health insurance, the average person is paying anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 even when they're considered. So we have a system that costs us $55 trillion over the next ten years and that's the CMS estimate, and we are in a situation where that is because of the for-profit interests that are built into the system that put profits above patients.

So I want a plan that is going to tackle the scale of the health care crisis in America, that is going to do two things, one, bring down costs over the long term because you cannot address this issue without bringing down costs and number two, universally guarantee insurance to every single American and no differences in quality if you're rich or poor.

JONES: Well, I mean, nobody no one can argue with those as goals and basically those are two things we're concerned about. So they cost too much and people are left out, but there are real concerns that people have if we just put up on the screen. One is the idea that you're eliminating choice and you're going to force me of my private plan if my private plan suck you're going to force me into some government plan that is too expensive and the middle class are going to pay more in taxes and let's walk through each of those.

JAYAPAL: Perfect.

JONES: I like being able to choose stuff even if it's bad. I just ate a Twinkie, so help me understand.

JAYAPAL: We need to talk about that.

JONES: Exactly. Help me understand how you respond to that concern that you're forcing people into something they may not want to do.

JAYAPAL: Well I would just say we don't have choice today, even if you have private insurance. What choice do you really have? You don't have a choice as to what plan you pick, your employer chooses that. You don't have a choice of what benefits are there, insurance private insurance company chooses that.

In fact, more and more because of the rising health care costs insurance companies are limiting who you get to see? What hospital is in network or out of network? And if you lose your job you really have no choice at all. You've got no health insurance that's if you have insurance now.

[19:40:00]

JAYAPAL: If you don't have insurance, what choice do you have now? So if that's choice, then I would rather have the choice of having a guaranteed insurance plan no matter where you work. You want to start a small business? You want to run a small business? You want to leave your job and go do something else? You get sick and need to stay home? You have to take care of a loved one? You have that choice.

JONES: I have wanted to imagine that this idea of Medicare for all who want it which Mayor Pete talks about would be a better option and you and I fought for the public option. That's another way of seeing the public option back in the Obama days. Were you and I wrong we were out there saying we want the public option, isn't there a way to get there without forcing everybody on the same program?

JAYAPAL: It's a great question. I will say that before the public option I fought for a single payer plan and that's what I was really fighting for. The public option was my fallback.

JONES: There was no public option?

JAYAPAL: Here's what I found out and I've spent two years crafting this bill and really diving into the health care system. If you have a public option, I am now convinced that that is actually going to be worse for us.

JONES: Why? JAYAPAL: It is going to cost us more and it is going to divide the country in such a way that the for-profit private insurance companies will game the system so they get the healthiest people on their plan, the sickest people go to the government plan and because they're still in the marketplace, they're still driving up costs.

Notice that the public option, Medicare buy-in and all of those things, none of those have any way to bring down costs. The question to every candidate out there should not be just to the Medicare for all folks, why does your plan cost what it does? It should be for everyone to say how are you bringing down costs and how are you universally covering all the ground of it?

JONES: I have not heard this argument made as clearly as you just did. I hope my viewers tune into this. You're saying that the public option which we all fought for it and thought was great and then Mayor Pete was for. You're saying you've done the math and you think it will actually wind up backfiring because it is going to drive up the cost for all plans because the government will wind up--

JAYAPAL: That's right. And it's still not going to universally cover everyone. But here's the other fear I have about the public option. We want to win in 2020. We want to win in 2022 and 2024, and I will tell you that if we don't address this health care crisis we will lose - we may win in 2020, but if the next President doesn't really have bold, structural reform we are going to be back where we were in 2016 and in 2024 it's going to be a disaster with many more lives lost.

JONES: Listen, you know more about the policy than me and you've thought it all of the way through but a lot of folks in our party just don't agree with you. Pelosi just says she's not a big fan. We have Sharrod Brown from Ohio and he thinks it's a bad idea. The Governors of Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were on my show, purple swing states saying this is a very, very bad idea.

JAYAPAL: Right.

JONES: So let's talk about the politics of it. Is this dividing Democrats and scaring independents away?

JAYAPAL: Well, it shouldn't divide Democrats, but regardless of what those folks say with lots of respect to them, I have delved into all of the polling across the country. I went to business school. I love data. I am a pragmatist when it comes down to it and the polling says a very different story.

JONES: What does it say?

JAYAPAL: And the polling says that two-thirds of the country 66 percent of people across the country think that Medicare for all is a great idea. Van, can you think of another policy in this country where two-thirds of the American people agree? And look at impeachment as an example of what happens when Democrats unite around a message, polling moves.

Polling is not static. So you can move it, but we just have to be on the same message and we have to have the courage to take on the entrenched interest that are creating a for-profit system that puts profits over patients.

JONES: Well, we're speaking out of entrenched interest you know we have got people running for office that try to do some of these ideas and more. You are the Co-Chair of the progressive caucus.

JAYAPAL: I am.

JONES: You endorsed Bernie early in 2016. Where are you now?

JAYAPAL: Well, I haven't endorsed either. We have a hundred members in our caucus and 40 percent of the Democratic Caucus and I am so just thrilled. I saw a poll today that said Elizabeth and Bernie are leading in Iowa significantly more than even if you take Biden and Buttigieg together.

To me, that says progressives are winning, working people are winning, people of color are winning because they know that we need structural change in this country for everyone to have a shot.

JONES: It sounds like you've got it narrowed down to one of those two.

JAYAPAL: I got to narrow down to one of those two. You know also we have great candidates. I've done bills with Cory Booker with Kamala Harris with others, but I've got to say it's down to those two.

JONES: One person you won't be able to work with anymore who I know you love and work with is Katie Hill. I know you're close to her. How is she doing and what do you think about her decision to resign?

JAYAPAL: I talked to her yesterday, she - I wasn't able to go to her floor speech because I was up here, but I called her and I think that she is a strong, resilient woman.

[19:45:00]

JAYAPAL: She knows that she made some mistakes and there's no doubt about that but this issue of revenge porn and the way in which these picture, hundreds of pictures that they were threatening to release of her private life, she didn't want to be a distraction to what Democrats are trying to do. I went out and campaigned for her. She was an incredible candidate and she was an incredible lawmaker.

JONES: Double standard for women on that?

JAYAPAL: Oh, always. I mean, what's new about that? That's true in almost every aspect of life.

JONES: You know, she's lucky to have you in her corner and we're lucky in America to have you in our corner. Thank you very much for being here. Give her a big round of applause.

(APPLAUSE)

JONES: Now, look, if Democrats want to win in 2020 they have to energize young and minority voters. I recently got great insight and I'll tell you which candidate is actually breaking through with young people and a potential warning sign that I found when we get back.

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JONES: Hip hop has become a major force in politics today whether Jay- Z pushing for criminal justice reform or Cardi B Shouting out Bernie Sanders or Kanye West wearing a MEGA hat. There has been a big push to mobilize the hip hop community to come out to vote in 2020.

[19:50:00]

JONES: So last Saturday politics on the agenda at the Revolt Summit in Los Angeles. I was there hosting a panel and I also had a chance to catch up with some people off stage. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Are you paying attention to the presidential candidates? Anybody you like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bernie Sanders.

JONES: Who do you like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd probably say Bernie.

JONES: Some strong Bernie buzz at the Revolt Summit in Los Angeles where I talked to some of the young folks about their thoughts on Washington, D.C. and the campaign trail. Do any of the candidates strike you as being on your side yet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love Bernie. I love Elizabeth Warren. There are so many good Democrats that it is not enough to take on the one Republican. You know?

JONES: In 2016 young voters were the only age group to increase their turnout by about 1 percent but adults between 18 and 29 are still the least likely to vote. Could we see a big change in 2020? What are the issues that you think will motivate young folks to turn out in 2020?

JEFF JOHNSON, JOURNALIST & PUBLIC SPEAKER: I don't know because I don't know if they believe in the federal process.

JONES: Wow.

JOHNSON: I think they've watched not just for the last four years but almost the last 12 years a Congress that has by and large passed no pieces of legislation. No major pieces of legislation outside of the Affordable Care Act. I think young African-Americans want results and I don't know if they believe that the candidates that are currently there will deliver those.

JONES: If hip hop had its own political infrastructure what would it look like? JOHNSON: Black lives matter with legitimate offices and chapters. Black lives matter is hip hop. They are just saying we don't trust the institutional infrastructure that always exists so until that happens it is going to be incredibly powerful but situationally unsustainable because you and I both know it is institutions that ensure sustainability of these movements not just the power of the culture driving it.

EBONI K. WILLIAMS, CO-HOST, "STATE OF THE CULTURE": We talk about every election is the election of a lifetime. This one, real talk, is the election of a lifetime. For me coming from a background of practicing law as an attorney and being before judges I think I can't overstate to young people the importance - the President and his or her four or eight years is one thing.

The impact they have on who they appoint to these federal benches across the country from district court level to appellate court level to the all mighty high court the United States Supreme Court that is the most important aspect. If you're not motivated because you don't like a candidate, candidate is not sexy enough for you, candidates not cool enough for you I feel that.

We got to get out regardless. You don't get out in spite of don't hold your nose. Get out because the people that sit on these benches across the United States of America determine all of our futures.

JONES: For the constantly connected generation some see positives and drawbacks to living life online.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're so attracted to our phones we're so attracted to our devices. We're so attracted to the technology but we don't know the privacy that we're giving up when we do that. I just feel like for our generation we're learning how to kind of disconnect to reconnect in the proper way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you feel so much about digital privacy? Why is that something young people worry about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we've seen it happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seen what happen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You Mark Zuckerberg and the Facebook thing going on right now. They are selling our information. We just want to share photos with our grandma, bro. You know? I don't want to give up all my digital assets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We grew up with the technology era. We don't have the luxury of you have to actually go to go see someone rather than, we can just text them now. Our face is always in our phones now at night looking and watching.

JONES: Is it good or bad?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's bad. I think we need to go back into actually meeting people nowadays. We're more on, we can see you but we don't see you.

JONES: What due think about your generation makes you capable of doing things, or the early generation being able to get it right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the most connected generation the planet has ever seen. I mean, what's the basis change, right? It is connection. Social media could be good, could be bad. You know? But it provides that platform quite literally for the whole world to connect, have empathy for each other, see what is going on. We are no longer in the dark.

JONES: I ran into Killer Mike back stage. He is endorsing Bernie Sanders again for President. Back in 2016 he got nah controversy for suggesting black voters should stay home after Bernie lost the nomination. I know you are a very strong supporter of Bernie Sanders. Why should hip hop support Bernie Sanders?

KILLER MIKE, RAPPER & ACTIVIST: Why should hip hop not? Your community, hip hop has been more decimated by things like student loans, more decimated by things like diabetes and cancer. Has been more decimated by illegal marijuana stops and convictions. Why would you not?

[19:55:00]

JONES: If the Democrats come up short in terms of the progressive side if there is another nominee that is a moderate what is the right way forward? Last time I think we held back. We wound up with Donald Trump. If it happens again what should we do?

MIKE: What I think people should do is get out locally find out-- find out who your state Senators and Congressmen are found out who your counter commissioners are, your city council, your Mayor and you should hold their feet to the fire immediately no matter who wins this drama called the presidency. I am a Sanders supporter. I think he is the opposite of Trump. You don't beat magneto without Professor X but should you lose do not hold your head down going home sobbing and crying. Go home, plan, strategize, organize, and mobilize.

JONES: Would part of that strategy be to include voting for a moderate if you had to come down against Trump?

MIKE: Again, national campaigns do not affect your life as much as local campaigns. So if you lose, lick your wounds, shake the other person's hand, go home, and vote anyone in locally who is reflective of who you would have supported nationally.

JONES: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Two separate people raised the lack of interest and distrust of the federal process and federal elections. That is something everybody should pay a lot of attention to. Listen, thank you for tuning in. Thank you to all my guests. Thank you for watching. I'm Van Jones. It's THE VAN JONES SHOW. Peace and love to one another. (APPLAUSE)

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