Return to Transcripts main page

Cuomo Prime Time

GOP's Bevin Trailing In Kentucky Governor's Race; CNN Projects Democrats Win Control Of Virginia Senate; Kentucky Secretary Of State On Close Governor's Race. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired November 05, 2019 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --seen a substantial move-away from the Republican candidate. That, of course, might have national implications for Republicans next year.

Of course, the kind of candidate that Beshear is, is also something that's going to be - Beshear is also something that's going to be closely watched, as are state-wide races in Virginia, where special attention is being paid to the State's Senate there in Virginia. It's now narrowly in Republican control. That too could change overnight.

In Mississippi as well, we got returns (ph) throughout the evening. Of course, CNN's is going to bring it to you all as it happens.

Time to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Well this is a big point of fascination happening on our watch. Anderson, thank you for taking it to this point.

This is big breaking election night news. This is a very significant story unfolding in the State of Kentucky. Why? Well it probably wasn't supposed to happen. I say probably because there's always context in politics.

But if Kentucky goes from Red to Blue, and we understand why it happened, it will be an excellent window into the state of play in the 2020 election. Is the President relevant here? Is impeachment relevant here?

Big questions, big results, probably on our watch, so let's get after it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, why does Kentucky matter? Well I'll tell you all about the state. We're doing our homework right now to make it more relevant as a picture of our country. But here's the headline. Our President won Kentucky by some 30 points in 2016, all right? He killed it. He does very well there. He just went to the state. Now, he is seen as almost indomitable when he comes to stump for a Republican. His win percentage is ridiculously high.

And he went for Governor Matt Bevin. Now, he's been running for re- election on a platform of cozying up to the President. He actually took a shot at McConnell, I think, in like 2014 or '15, wanting to run against him for Senate, didn't work out obviously.

But if the turnout is very big, and we believe it is, Bevin losing, despite that push by the President could very well be relevant. We got to look in a little bit more. Why? We'll talk about it throughout the night. Here's what we know.

He is trailing the State's Democratic Attorney General, Andy Beshear. Now, if you follow politics, and that name sounds familiar, it's because it is. His father was the Governor of Kentucky until 2015, 2007 to 2015.

Now, Bevin took over in 2015. The President won by 30 points. He ran by 10 when he - he won by 10 in 2015. So, he's no Trump in his own state. So, what is the state of play in this race? Why is it happening this way? And most importantly, when can we call it?

Let's bring in CNN's John King. Nobody works the wall like he does. We've been watching you meticulously go through it. What would be, and who makes the call, and at what point?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have some excellent people on the Decision Desk. They're waiting in, Chris, because they're waiting, because they play it safe here. As you noted, 10,565 votes is the lead, 99 percent reporting.

What's out? What are we missing? We're missing some votes out here in Western rural conservative Red Kentucky, so we're just waiting, one little tiny County over here, for example, Ballard County, we don't have any votes in yet.

They'll come in like that. When they come in, they tend to all come in at once. It could happen right in the middle of this conversation. But we're waiting to be cautious just to see are there enough votes out here.

You start moving around again in these rural areas, McCracken County, I was looking at this one earlier, but it's now up to a 100 percent.

If you're in the Bevin headquarters, you're a little nervous because this County came in, you're winning healthy, but the final votes came in, and they weren't enough to cut into the lead.

If you click around out here, you see a 91 percent here in Livingston County, again Bevin winning pretty healthy. But you see the overall vote counties here. Even if the - even if he gains in the final percent, the math, there's not a lot of votes to do that because it's a small, not that populous county.

But we're going to wait and count them as they come in. Now, why is Andy Beshear in the driver seat right now? Why is the Democrat in this Red state, 10,000 votes, almost 11,000 votes ahead? First and foremost, you start here, and we've had the same conversation during the Trump Presidency.

Democrats went in the cities, and they are increasingly running up the margins in the close-in suburbs, Jefferson County, Louisville, and the suburbs, 67 percent.

Look, there's a 100,000 votes almost, just shy of a 100,000 vote margin right there. It's in the largest area of the state. I want to go back in time. Yes, the Democrat carried this last time, but with 58 percent.

You want to win an election, and you're the Democrat, in a state like Kentucky, you got to run it up here, especially in the suburbs. Andy Beshear did that.

Let's come back out here and move over. You come across here, it's a smaller County, but it's a Democratic County, Franklin County here, again, he runs it up pretty good. You keep wandering the neighborhood here.

You're talking about suburbs here, your smaller cities. These are not big cities in Kentucky, but smaller cities. You come in here, Lexington, you see it here. Again, what's - look at the percentage, 65 percent to 33 percent tonight.

Go back, the Democrat won this four years ago, but not by a margin like this. Andy Beshear very much outperforming Jack Conway.

[21:05:00]

One other point, you made note of the President's margin. I want to show you something as we come back to the race tonight. Number one, look up here, and number two, look out here.

This is the suburbs up here, the Cincinnati, Ohio suburbs in Northern Kentucky right here. They're Blue tonight for Andy Beshear. If we go back in time, they were Red for Matt Bevin.

And again, look out here. This was Matt Bevin four years ago, right? A little Blue. Look at tonight, a lot more Blue.

CUOMO: Right.

KING: You made the point that when you were talking to Anderson early that Andy Beshear actually went out into these small rural counties, and worked it, said, "I can give you a better healthcare. I can give you a better deal than your Governor, but also your President." He was playing both factors there.

And again, he is a well-known name. He is a polarizing Governor. There are Kentucky issues, a nasty state race at play here tonight. But it is just unmistakable because of the history, because of the President's visit last night.

If you're the President of the United States, and you won this state by that, wow, then you're not happy tonight that your candidate, the guy you went down - you wouldn't have gone down last night if you didn't think he was going to eek it out, and he was going to win, so that you could take credit for it in those morning tweets in the morning, we'll see how we get there.

But, right now, this is a major story for the Democrats, Andy Beshear, your State Attorney General tonight within striking distance of being the next Governor of Kentucky.

CUOMO: On a straight Trump-level, he's got cover here though, right John, because he can say "Bevin wasn't popular. I tried to help. I tried to do what I can. But he was way behind," so the fact that it was even close is cover.

KING: Yes.

CUOMO: When you're looking at the raw vote totals, John, does anything stand out for you? Do you think we can say at this point that turnout was at all significant?

KING: Well your biggest point about that, the point you just made, A, the people are turning out to vote tonight. There's no question about that. And we'll watch this - we'll watch this play out.

And the Dem - and the Democrats clearly were motivated in this race as well, and did a very good job turning out in the state, where frankly, they have struggled operationally, organizationally in the past.

But to your point about the President, look, if you're Matt Bevin, or if you're a Republican anywhere, you know, as much as we say "Ha-ha, the President went in, his guy lost, stain on Trump," he did go in to try to help.

And Matt Bevin was behind early in this race and closed late. The other Republicans on the statewide ballot are doing much better than their Governor.

CUOMO: Doing much better. And that--

KING: Much better than their Governor, so the President is going to make the point--

CUOMO: Yes.

KING: --"I tried to help. The guy was toxic."

CUOMO: Yes. That - that'll - that'll feed the narrative. But, then again, there are lot of other insights to hear about turnout, issues, what worked, and what doesn't.

KING: Right.

CUOMO: This isn't the clearest picture for us again, because Beshear has got history in the state, you know, his father was a Governor there.

KING: Right.

CUOMO: He's the sitting Attorney General. So, we'll go through it. John, I'll keep checking back with you.

KING: I'll be here.

CUOMO: You get in my ear if you have anything that changes. I'll come to you right away. Thank you, my brother.

KING: Yes.

CUOMO: Let's bring in David Axelrod, and CNN Political Director, David Chalian. It's good to have you both. When we talk about this state, and why it matters, Axe is sitting next to me, so we look at the state boilerplate.

One thing to look out for is there's no automatic re-count in this state. But a candidate can request one in court at any level, so we're not looking for a threshold number as we sometimes are. Bevin could ask it in any level. If the court says yes, he can go, so we'll keep an eye on that.

Kentucky, 4.5 million people, overwhelmingly White, 85 percent, 87 percent White, 4.4 percent unemployment, a big issue there is Medicaid.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Yes.

CUOMO: Bevin said you got to work harder for Medicaid, made him unpopular.

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: Beshear said "I will not change those." Where's the lesson?

AXELROD: Well and - and Steve Beshear, his father--

CUOMO: The Governor before, right.

AXELROD: --was someone who embraced the Affordable Care Act. He re- branded it. I think they called it Kentucky Connect.

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: So as not to call it Obamacare. But it was quite popular. And so, this became an issue for Bevin.

He had other issues as well. He clashed with the teachers. He, you know, his personality frankly was pretty prickly, so he did go in at a big disadvantage in this race. But it is a Republican state at this point.

CUOMO: Yes. AXELROD: You know, President wins by 30 points. And I agree. The President went in there to try and save this guy. But he wouldn't have gone in there if he didn't think he could save this guy. And so, we saw the limits of his coattails here.

And you saw it particularly in those suburban areas, and that continues a trend that we've seen since 2016 that should be worrisome, not frankly to him in the State of Kentucky. He's going to carry the State of Kentucky. But if you extrapolate to other places around the country, this could be a concern for him.

CUOMO: David, is there a lesson in not just what Beshear talked about but what he didn't, given this list of what--

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes.

CUOMO: --was in this five minute sell of his Medicaid schools, all right, not unusual. I'll get away from this divisiveness that we see in Washington, does not talk impeachment, does not mention the President. What's the lesson in that?

CHALIAN: Correct. And if you're a 2020 Democrat running for President, yes, you're trying to court your Democratic base right now in the nomination, but you're probably paying attention to this a bit, where sometimes the conversation is dominated by Trump or impeachment or the news-of-day headlines.

[21:10:00]

Beshear made it very clear from the get-go in this race, he saw his only path was to localize this, talk about those kitchen table issues, healthcare, education, jobs, and really not try to talk about Donald Trump.

It was Bevin who was trying to use Trump to his benefit. It was the Republican incumbent who was trying to sort of bask in the embrace of the President here in hopes of getting over the hurdle.

And again, they're only 10,000, 11,000 votes apart. We don't know how this will end up finally. But I do think, Chris, you raise a point.

I think there are going to be a lot of Democrats that do extrapolate, "Hey, what kind of Democrat do we need to win in," again, not Kentucky. That's not a battleground state next year. But in some of these areas where Democrats have made inroads--

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: --you can see Democrats asking what kind of Democrat, what does Beshear teach us about the kind of Democrat who can make inroads, further inroads in the suburbs, maybe pick up some of those Trump voters, some of those rural areas, make some inroads there.

And if Beshear's the model, you know, that plays out in that sort of Warren versus Biden kind of ideological--

CUOMO: Yes. Well let's talk about how though, David.

CHALIAN: --kind we see (ph).

CUOMO: One quick beat before we go to break. One, they're putting a lot of money on impeachment. I know Pelosi was slow.

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: We all knew why.

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: But now they're on the precipice. The country is divided on it at best.

And it's not even a real split, right, because the party numbers are so different. It's all the Democrats, right, you get like 70- something, and like a third to 25 percent of Republicans think even the inquiry is worth it.

This guy doesn't mention impeachment. He is nothing like any of the people on the stage for the Democratic nominees. So, is this a warning or is this a good signal?

AXELROD: Well, first of all, you're - you're right. He didn't talk about impeachment. The Republicans did. And their whole campaign down the stretch was to try and attach him to the impeachment in Washington. If he wins tonight, that will have failed as a strategy.

CUOMO: Well that's interesting.

AXELROD: But look at--

CUOMO: That's interesting. So, let's - that's a better point than mine, so let's flush that out.

AXELROD: All right. I just want to linger on that last point--

CUOMO: So, he'd--

AXELROD: --you made.

CUOMO: He didn't - he didn't talk about impeachment, fine. But you think there may be an equal opposite at play there that they talked it up a lot, and maybe people didn't want to hear it in that context either.

AXELROD: Yes. I mean I think that if Beshear wins, he will have won by localizing it, and they will have failed to have - the - the - the nationalizing in the race would have - will have failed to save them, including using impeachment to try and mobilize their - their voters.

But look, generally, this - as David was saying, there is a big debate going on within the Democratic Party as to whether you just pump up your base, and you can win that way, or whether you need to appeal more broadly, as Beshear did in Kentucky, going into rural counties, appealing in suburban areas. And this is going to play out over the next couple of months.

CUOMO: And let's take a break right now. Fellas please, Axe stay here. David, if you can, stick around. As we get some more information, we'll understand this because you also have to put it in the context of those state-by-state polls we just got.

You know, a lot of Democrats' eyes popped open when they saw how strong this President is in states that matter. Kentucky shouldn't be in play, but there may be lessons there, so we'll go through it.

We also have a former DNC Chair who can add value on why these races tonight, they're big races, really possibly historic races in his own home state of Virginia. He's also the Former Governor of Virginia.

We've got Senator Tim Kaine is with us tonight to talk politics on a big night. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, we're following this Kentucky race mostly because the President went down there to campaign for the incumbent Matt Bevin, not wildly popular, did win by 10 points. The President won by 30 in Kentucky.

But now, Andy Beshear, who's the sitting Attorney General seems to be very close to sealing the deal. The margin, as you see there, well they have him 6,200 votes ahead right there. That's closer than I had been told. Last number I heard was like 11,000, so the lead's been cut in half.

But we are told, the last County was just counted, so we're going to have to see when they're ready to say "OK, all votes are in," and we'll look at that level, may well happen on our watch.

We'll keep you going. No rush. We're going to talk about what the implications are. If it does go that way, what does it mean, what does it not mean.

Another big night in Virginia, all 140 seats in the State Senate and House of Delegates are up. Imagine that, your entire State Government is up. Democrats are trying to pull off a big feat, something they haven't done in a quarter century, take control from the GOP in all three Houses.

Why is that so big? If for no other reason, you get to draw the districts. All you hear about gerrymandering and all that stuff, that's why. It happens at the State Legislative level.

Let's bring in one of Virginia's best-known Democrats, Senator Tim Kaine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Do I have it right, Senator, in that jean jacket? Do you - do I have it right that--

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): You got - you got it--

CUOMO: --districting and drawing matters and why.

KAINE: It absolutely does. And I'm in a barn out in Prince William County, which is like the battleground of the battleground.

And this legislative election sets the stage for redistricting in 2021, where we will have a Democratic Governor in two Democratic Houses, and that we won tonight, it looks like we're going to pick up both Houses.

We won on the maps that the Republicans drew back in 2011. On their maps, we did something that we haven't done for a quarter century--

CUOMO: Why?

KAINE: --with great energy and enthusiasm picked up both Houses.

CUOMO: Why did you do it?

KAINE: Well I'll tell you. The reason that we won - the reason we won is Democrats in Virginia, we run as the practical problem-solving progressives, while the Republicans run as the ideologues.

[21:20:00]

And what Virginians see is they see a state, they like the way Democrats run things. They know we know how to govern. And when they see it, and when they see these young dynamic candidates we have, we've basically in the last 15 years gone from having nothing to if we do pick up both Houses.

And it looks like we will, we'll have everything, every statewide, both Senators, Electoral votes in the last three Presidentials, the last elements we needed, we're majorities in the two Legislative Houses, and tonight, we're going to get them.

CUOMO: Interesting how the fates of politics can change. Northam looked like he was done, the Governor there in Virginia. He decided to hold on. He didn't buckle to pressure.

Now he's going to have both sets of gov - state government at his behest, and he's going to be able to do things that may have not been done in a generation, certainly not by Democrats.

Kentucky, so your friends--

KAINE: That's correct, Sir, very true.

CUOMO: --your friends say to you, "Oh, don't be so happy about Kentucky. Bevin wasn't popular. The President went down there to try to help him. The other Republicans - Republicans killed it in that state. The President's fine. This means nothing about him."

Your take?

KAINE: Well look, Virginia borders Kentucky. My wife is from Big Stone Gap, Virginia, which is just a few miles from the Kentucky border. Any Republican that tries to downplay Andy Beshear's win, and it looks like he will win, they are whistling past the graveyard.

Kentucky is one of the most Republican states in the country. President Trump put it all in, by going down there last night to try to get Kentucky to do what they always do, which is go Red, the state of the Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, who is up for election next year, in Kentucky.

I think the Virginia result tonight, and the Kentucky result are both very, very strong signs of hope to people around this country that going into 2020, we can restore our country to the kinds of progressive values that we need to be known for.

CUOMO: So, the elections in Virginia, hyper-localized. In Kentucky, Beshear's strategy was "Doesn't talk impeachment, doesn't talk about the President, talks about Medicaid accessibility," because Bevin made a misstep on that, and wanted to condition it more. That was obviously a source of tension in a state that's as reliant on it--

KAINE: Right.

CUOMO: --as they are. So, what is the lesson for you Democrats? You don't have any Andy Beshear on the stage fighting for this nomination. Is that - that "Don't talk impeachment, stay away from the President," offer something--

KAINE: Well--

CUOMO: --to people at home?

KAINE: No - how about this?

How about if you want to provide healthcare solutions for your citizens, which Democrats do, Democrats expanded Medicaid in Virginia, a year and a half ago, and Governor Beshear, and now Attorney General Beshear are running on the same thing. If you want to expand healthcare solutions, run on that, against the

President, who again and again and again, even in court right now, is trying to take health insurance away from tens of millions of Americans.

I think that is a - a great link between Kentucky and Virginia. Republicans try to take healthcare away from their own people, while Democrats fight to provide healthcare, even for the voters in the other party. That's something you can run on all over this country.

CUOMO: Senator Tim Kaine, appreciate your insight on an important night. Thank you very much.

KAINE: Glad to be with you, thanks.

CUOMO: All right, got to keep covering this election. As I said, we are told, the last County was counted in Kentucky.

Where does that leave us? The number we just saw on the screen was half of what we've been told a few minutes before. We'll get the latest calculation, the latest expectation.

We have Axe. We have Dana Bash. That's enough. When we come back, we'll talk about what this means, and what it doesn't, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Breaking news out of Kentucky, the GOP Governor, Matt Bevin trailing in his re-election bid, but just barely. We have Dana Bash. She's been talking to Republican sources on the ground there.

Dana, great to have you. We've heard the last County was counted. We're waiting to see what that means. We've seen ranges in the difference from a 11,000 to 6,000, so we don't know the fate. Bevin is down currently. What's the spin?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Republicans who I'm talking to in Kentucky and nationally are definitely not hopeful.

And already, leading into today's election, we heard the expectations being pinned, if he did lose on Governor Bevin's personality, on the fact that he is so unpopular, the - probably the most unpopular Governor in the country, even and especially among his fellow Republicans in Kentucky.

I just was - was texting with a veteran Republican Strategist in Kentucky, who said the following. "Well we found out that being in A- hole is slightly worse than being a liberal," about Bevin, and pointing out as many other Republican sources have to me tonight that other Republicans in Kentucky, all of the other Republicans there have done very, very well, and that Bevin is an aberration.

Having said that, Chris, just before coming on with you, I got a text from a different Republican Strategist, who was involved broadly, in - in party fundraising and planning for this, who said, very candidly, this is a blow, because Republicans were all in on this, from the RNC, to the RGA, the Republican Governors Association, to the President, to the Vice President.

And despite the fact that the Governor is a very flawed candidate this - that is the reality that they're going to have to face.

CUOMO: Well he won by 10 points, Bevin, the last time.

BASH: Yes.

[21:30:00]

CUOMO: The task for Republicans is to say that the Republicans who won are more like this President than Bevin.

But Bevin connected himself to the President more than any of the other candidates, more overtly anyway, so it's a little bit of a tough sell. But fact's fact is that the President won by 30, and he's very popular in Kentucky.

BASH: Right.

CUOMO: So, we'll see.

BASH: Right.

CUOMO: Dana, very useful information.

BASH: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you very much as always.

All right, let's break - bring back in the Davids, Axelrod and Chalian.

So, Axe, we were talking about what the lessons are, well you know, I mean--

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: That's why this matters.

AXELROD: Right.

CUOMO: Sure, incrementally it matters on the micro--

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: Orderings (ph) yes.

CUOMO: Right. And where do - does it take you, what I was just saying to Dana, you know, was it that Bevin was too much like Trump or was it that he wasn't, you know, seen as - as Trumpy as the other ones?

AXELROD: Well I don't think it was that. I don't think he was seen as Trumpian. You know, he may have been Trumpian to a fault in the minds of some voters. He was a very disagreeable guy, and he took off on some very unpopular issues there.

But, you know, as you point out, Trump won the state by 30 points. He parachuted in on the last night. I think he did so with the expectation that he could pull out a victory for Bevin.

And there were weaknesses that are not just limited to Kentucky that we've seen now for election after election. What we're seeing in Virginia, you look at the - the - these suburbs around Richmond, Virginia, the suburbs around Washington D.C., and Republicans are getting pummeled in those areas.

So, this is a, you know, formally Republican strongholds that are no longer in the Republican column.

CUOMO: College-educated--

AXELROD: That is a Trump legacy.

CUOMO: College-educated usually speaks to suburb. One of the reasons people thought Bevin may be OK in Kentucky is you only have 23 percent college-educated in a state that's 87 percent White. So, that was at play there.

So, Axe was trying to help me understand something, David, in the break, the role of impeachment and the debate over whether or not this is a good thing or a bad thing for the Democrats.

We keep hearing, Tim Kaine, what we saw in Beshear, "Keep it local, talking healthcare here, talking jobs, talking local concerns, not talking impeachment, nobody's asking us about that," and yet it is the dominant narrative in Washington D.C.

How do you reconcile?

CHALIAN: Well I mean I think you are hitting on, Chris, exactly why Nancy Pelosi was as reluctant as she was to move towards impeachment because of concern that by doing this in a partisan fashion, as the vote on the inquiry indicated this is, in this partisan polarized era of American politics, if you're not, for the Democrats, if you're not bringing over Republicans, if you're not bringing overwhelmingly Independents to your cause, what ends up happening is this gets just completely put in its partisan corners. And, by the way, that could be beneficial to the President because it gives him that - that partisan base of support to just stand his footing on, while he fights this even to a draw.

That - that, I think, was the concern here that they would be potentially seen by voters as Democrats just trying to undo the election. Now, the facts of the impeachment are what they are.

And - and it seems poised that each day the Democrats seem closer and closer to moving ahead with impeachment - but Chris, I haven't seen anything yet now. Maybe tonight's Kentucky results will be a data point that the Senate Republican Conference, all of a sudden, weighs in a - in a different way here.

But, to this date, I haven't seen anything that shows me 20 Republican Senators are about to bail on the President, and join Democrats, and trying to remove the President.

CUOMO: Right. And Beshear didn't even talk about it, Axe.

AXELROD: No. But let's - let's pick up something else that Tim Kaine said that is important.

Democrats won in 2018 by raising healthcare and the attempt by the President to gut the Affordable Care Act, take protections away for people with pre-existing conditions. That was the basis on which they did very well. It wasn't on the basis of universal coverage, Medicare- for-All, ending private insurance.

CUOMO: Taking away private insurance.

AXELROD: Ending private insurance.

And, you know, in those a - I mean a - a big discussion, a big debate within the Democratic Party is, are you going to run on those grounds that were so fertile for you in 2018 that helped Andy Beshear in Kentucky tonight, or are you going to forge this other trail on the theory that you can pump up your base, and that will be enough?

I think it's a very dangerous path to take. But that's a debate that - that Democrats are going to have to have.

CUOMO: Governors have it a little easier on the healthcare. I mean they have to ask for waivers and money from the Fed. But they - the - the money they control is Medicaid.

So, in a state - state, especially that's vulnerable with it like Kentucky, there's a little bit more leverage for a Governor--

AXELROD: But this really was--

CUOMO: --they don't have it in the national level.

AXELROD: --for the both Beshears, this was a signature issue. As I said earlier, Steve Beshear was a national leader.

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: And he took un-insurance down in his state from like 21 percent to about 8 percent or 7 percent--

[21:35:00]

CUOMO: By embracing the expansion.

AXELROD: By embracing it.

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: And that was popular.

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: And so, you know, being dogmatic on this issue for Republicans didn't work. It could be that Democrats by being dogmatic on the issue could take Republicans off the hook.

CUOMO: The Davids always give us deep analysis, and I thank them both, and Dana Bash.

Look, I keep bringing it up on the show. We cover impeachment here a lot, and we have to. It's about literally an existential cause in our democratic republic. But politically, it's got some big questions, hanging around it.

How does the Head of the Democratic Party take those questions? How does he see tonight? Tom Perez, the Leader of the Democratic Party on a big night. What does it mean? Next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Kentucky is the key story of the night. John King, crunching the numbers. We have been told the last County has been counted. So, as soon as we get new information, we'll give it to you.

But the right now is the Governor there, Matt Bevin, is down to the Attorney General, Andy Beshear. Beshear's father was Governor from 2007 to 2015. An issue that made him popular seems to be working for Andy Beshear tonight. That is Medicaid expansion.

[21:40:00] One of the missteps, arguably, of the incumbent Governor was to say that he was going to put limitations on Medicaid, make you have to work more to get it, unpopular in the state. Beshear was capitalizing on it.

But not the only reason, not the only lesson, and not the only major contest tonight. So, let's bring in the Head of the DNC, Tom Perez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Chairman, welcome to PRIME TIME. Oh, look at that smile! You feeling good tonight, tell me why.

TOM PEREZ, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Yes. I - I - I do feel good. Chris, we're a 50-state party again. I vowed we would be that when I was elected, Sir. In 2017, we elected Doug Jones, Senator in Alabama. In 2018, we won elections across the country.

And here in 2019, in Kentucky, here in Virginia, we're winning, and we're winning because we're fielding great candidates. We're organizing early. We're organizing everywhere. And we're fighting for the things people care about.

You've talked about the issue of healthcare. I worked very closely with Steve Beshear when I was Labor Secretary. He built one of the best healthcare exchanges in the country.

And in the category of, "If it ain't broke, break it," Matt Bevin proceeded to break it. And in so doing, he broke promises he made to the people of Kentucky. They remembered that.

And that's how we're winning everywhere, by showing people what we're fighting for, fighting for healthcare, fighting for good jobs, fighting for an America that works for everyone.

We just elected the first Muslim-American to the State Senate here in Virginia. Our diversity is our greatest strength. So, Mr. President, when you divide the nation, you're doing wrong, and the voters are going to speak up.

So, I'm very excited. We still have to see what's happening to Mississippi. We invested in Mississippi. We invested in Kentucky. We invested here in Virginia, and we're investing everywhere, because we can win everywhere.

CUOMO: So, when you look at the national picture, often the national picture is different than state-by-state. For example, we've been seeing polls where several of the top nominees currently in the party beat the President in a contest in the country.

But we saw the state-by-states come out to the states that will be battlegrounds, he's doing much better than the national polls suggested overall.

So, when we look at the states, what may have worked for Beshear, what worked in Virginia, "Keep it local. Talk healthcare. Get off Trump, get off impeachment."

How do you reconcile in the national picture for President an impeachment that seems to be so consuming of the energy in D.C. for the Democrats with what's been working state-by-state?

PEREZ: I think we succeed, Chris, by pointing out that Democrats can walk and chew gum.

Under Speaker Pelosi's leadership, we have passed laws to stabilize the healthcare exchange, raise the minimum wage, reduce the cost of prescription drugs, reduce gun violence, make sure that you're judged in the workplace by the content of your character, restore our democracy, and so many other things.

We're dealing with the issues that got us elected, so we can do those things. The reason they're not lies because of Mitch McConnell, in memo to file, Mitch McConnell, we're going to keep organizing in Kentucky.

We have to move on impeachment because it's not about politics, it's not about polling. It's about principle. And the principle of the matter is nobody is above the law.

It's un-American for a President to solicit from a foreign country, assistance in an election by asking someone to dig up dirt, dirt which does not exist I might point out, against your perceived opponent. And so, we can do both and we must do both.

And again, I would point out Chris, we won in - we ran the table in Wisconsin, in Michigan, and Pennsylvania in 2018, and all the statewide races because we were able to show people that we had their backs on the issues that mattered most. And we're going to continue to do that not only in the Industrial Midwest but across the country.

CUOMO: The challenge is translation. How do you turn what's working for you there into that national picture? Organizing is key. I don't want you to lose your voice. Thank you very much for joining me tonight, Tom. We'll be talking plenty going forward.

PEREZ: Pleasure to be with you.

CUOMO: Tom Perez, Chair of the DNC.

PEREZ: Take care.

CUOMO: All right, we're going to check back with the Election King. John King has an update on where the race stands, what is the space, what is the implication? We'll get it all rounded up in the break, come back on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Big night, especially in Kentucky, a Governor's race there that we had to watch. There's the man, John King. What's the status?

KING: We're at 99 percent, which means we're most likely done, maybe a few more votes will trickle in tonight. But this often - often happens.

The Democrat, Andy Beshear, if he goes to bed tonight, he's going to go to bed leading, leading in the race for Governor. He's the current State Attorney General.

As you mentioned throughout the hour, his dad used to be the Governor. He's at 49.2 percent. The incumbent Republican Governor, Matt Bevin, at 48.8 percent. So, if you do the rounding, it's 49 percent to 49 percent.

This is a very close race. But the Democrat is on top by 5,400 votes. And what - and so now we wait. We know there are several thousand absentee ballots yet to be counted. The lawyers could get involved tomorrow. There's no automatic re-count in Kentucky--

CUOMO: No.

KING: --if my recollection is correct. But - but - but Matt Bevin--

CUOMO: No, there is none. You got to ask the Judge.

KING: Yes. Matt Bevin can ask for it.

CUOMO: Yes.

KING: We could see how that plays out tomorrow. But Chris, when you - when you look at the map, I want to go - I want to show you something. It's not a huge difference here.

But this is tonight. Just keep an eye on this, if you're watching at home. Keep an eye on this, and look at the Blue. I want to go back four years ago when Matt Bevin won. It's more Red, right? There's not a ton more Blue tonight.

Just want to watch as you see this. This is four years ago when Matt Bevin wins with 52 percent of the vote in 2015. Now, you come forward, there's not a ton more Blue, but it's significant in a couple of ways. You talked about this early on. Here you have a Democrat who proved he could go out into rural areas that have been - become more and more and more Republican, especially in the Trump age. It was happening anyway.

[21:50:00]

But even more so in the Trump age, these have become Republican areas, smaller rural places, Andy Beshear went out, and competed, and picked up a few more counties out here. That's one reason he could be the next Governor - likely to be the next Governor of Kentucky.

Then you come here, and this is the story again. This is not just about Donald Trump. Matt Bevin was a polarizing Governor. But during the Trump Presidency, yes, Democrats win.

Wherever you see a city, an urban area, of course the Democrats are winning. But then they are running it up in the closed-in suburbs, used to be Republican territory, often more competitive territory.

Look at the margin here, in Jefferson County, 67 percent. Again, you go back in time here, the 2015 Governor's race, yes, the Democrat won it. But Andy Beshear, 10 points higher than that tonight.

Go back to the 2016 Presidential race you look in this area, yes, Hillary Clinton won it. But Donald Trump was in play because out here, away from Louisville, the city, Donald Trump was more competitive out in these suburban areas. That is being wiped out--

CUOMO: So--

KING: --in the Trump age. Fire away.

CUOMO: I don't understand this. So, if he wins by 30 points, what changed? Bevin won by 10. If a Democrat then gets in - yes, this - there's history, this family history.

Beshear was a popular Governor, 2007-2015. He expanded Medicaid a lot. A lot of Governors did not. You know, those who did, some succeeded, some didn't. He succeeded with that. How did it change?

KING: It's a very complicated state, and you know this. You've been around politics all your life. So, we can't just say it's the Trump factor. But without a doubt - without a doubt, number one, the President went in last night. He have made - he may have made this closer.

CUOMO: Yes.

KING: He may have helped Matt Bevin and come up short for that. But the President went in last night, thinking he could pull it across the finish line, and that did not happen.

Number two, you look at the Cincinnati suburbs, this part of the state right here, again, the suburbs around Lexington, the suburbs around Louisville, even down here in Bowling Green, the Democrats are gaining.

That is happening during the Trump Presidency. It happened all throughout 2018. It is a warning sign to - it's - does it change Kentucky politics a lot? No, Donald Trump will most likely win Kentucky quite easily next year.

However, if you're an - a House Republican in any place that looks like this, or looks like this, and you've been thinking "Maybe I'm going to retire, maybe I'm going to pack it in, maybe I'm not going to be on the ballot next year," you might get a couple more House Republican retirements out of this.

The last point I want to make, and then follow-up with anything, Kentucky's complicated. Mitch McConnell has a lousy relationship with the Governor, Matt Bevin. Matt Bevin challenged him in the Tea Party primary back in 2014.

If Matt Bevin loses tonight, as looks like it's happening, as of now, Mitch McConnell's going to have a celebratory Bourbon and never admit it in public, never.

He's happy that - he's happy that a protege - he's happy that a protege of his is winning the State Attorney General's race. He's happy--

CUOMO: By like 20, right?

KING: All of the other Republicans on the statewide ballot are over- performing their Governor. So, this is not just about Trump.

This is about an unpopular Governor, a Democratic candidate with a family name that is well-known, who ran a good campaign, and as you discussed with the Davids earlier, who made the bet, "I'm going to make this about Kentucky. I'm going to make this about healthcare. I'm going to make this about local. He's going to make it about impeachment and about Trump."

And in Kentucky tonight, not by a lot, let's not over-read this, this is a very, very close race.

CUOMO: Right.

KING: But - but in a state that is becoming more and more Red, when I was - first started doing this, Kentucky was more of a swing state.

CUOMO: Right.

KING: It used to have Democratic Senators, Democratic Governors in Kentucky. Those days have been fading.

So, if you're a Democrat, and as the Chairman just noted, Tom Perez, you won in Alabama last year with Doug Jones, you're winning in Kentucky here, you're feeling better.

Does that mean the South and the Border states are swinging back to the Democratic Party? No. But doesn't mean - remember, in the Obama years, in the Obama years, the Republicans won almost everything.

In the Trump years, the Democrats are winning, whether you're talking about those legislative races in Virginia, the 2018 midterms, and it looks like the Kentucky Governorship tonight.

During the Trump Presidency, we're seeing very much like we saw in the Obama Presidency, the other party making giant gains at every level.

CUOMO: Yes. I mean we're really going to have to die - take a look and figure out what the turnout was, and where, and what that suggest, as you're talking about, in the suburbs.

KING: Yes.

CUOMO: We do believe that we can say that the House in Virginia has gone back to Democrats. So, that's one project - prediction that CNN is comfortable with. The House in Virginia is now Democratic.

They're trying to get a sweep of - the Governor is obviously Governor Northam, Democrat. They're trying to get both Houses of the State Legislature, and that then leads to being able to deal with the district thing, which can give you a generation of change.

But I think that the narrative tomorrow morning, if this holds, John, is going to be this weird paradox where - oh, not the Virginia House, the Virginia Senate has gone Democrat. We're still waiting on the House. The Virginia Senate has gone Democrat. We're waiting on the House. And obviously, the Governor is a Democrat there.

That Matt Bevin was talking so much about how close he was to Trump, and yet, he didn't get the boost that we have seen.

So, was it that his popularity was so much lower than even a Trump bump could help, or did it have anything to do with his connection to Trump, but the other Republicans are doing well?

There's going to have to be some after-action report here once we get all the numbers. John King, you are the best.

KING: Yes.

[21:55:00]

CUOMO: And thank you. Let me know if something changes.

KING: You bet.

CUOMO: Again, we don't know what's happening in Kentucky yet. John King says 99 percent of the vote is in. We're going to wait, wait on the Secretary of State.

We're reaching out to the Secretary of State there, Alison Lundergan Grimes because, you know, Secretaries of State are in charge of officiating the election. What does she say about how many votes she's waiting on? What does she mean - we're reaching out. If she gets to us, I'll bring her to you. What we can tell you right now is Virginia. Virginia can be called the State Senate has gone Democrat. The Governorship is Democrat, Ralph Northam. Now, it's about the House.

The Republicans have been in control for a while, slim majorities, but they've had them. And the big key here is, yes, there'll be projections into what this means for the national picture, but I got something for you on that in a second.

But what it means specifically that does have national implications, but we never really talk about it, is that you get to draw the districts when you control the legislature. And if you draw the districts, you can play to advantage.

So that means the Democrats are pulling off whatever they pulled off in - in Virginia tonight with Republican-drawn sections. You see what I'm saying, those districts, so that's a big deal. We'll stay on that.

We got the Kentucky - the Kentucky Secretary of State, Alison Lundergan Grimes.

Thank you so much for coming to us in this urgent hour. What can you tell us, Secretary of State, about the state of the race?

ALISON LUNDERGAN GRIMES, (D) KENTUCKY SECRETARY OF STATE: Well we sure appreciate the coverage tonight.

And obviously, despite the President coming here to the Commonwealth of Kentucky, to rally for the top of the ticket, we have Attorney General Beshear, Andy Beshear, who will now be Governor-elect Beshear, succeeding tonight in ousting incumbent, in what was and has been a very close and narrow race over the past year.

CUOMO: So, Secretary of State, just to be clear, you are calling the race? You are saying that you are confident that it is over?

GRIMES: At this point, we have, with over 99 percent of the vote in, the - the margin is still within about 10,000 votes, and here on the Commonwealth, we have called it for Attorney General Beshear to be the Kentucky Governor-elect for the Commonwealth. We will have a second Governor Beshear here in the Commonwealth come 2020.

Obviously, there are still options available for a re-canvass to be requested should Governor Bevin want to do that and the State Board of Elections and our County folks (ph) throughout the Commonwealth will heed should that request be made.

But, at this point, based on the results that we are come - seeing coming in, especially not only from Fayette County, but from Jefferson County as well, the lead is - is substantial enough that we believe unlikely to be able to be made up by Governor Bevin.

CUOMO: One more question about process, and then I want to talk to you about the why here. Why you think it went this way.

The process question is this. What about absentee ballots? What about any other kind of outlying aspects that you have to take into consideration that may take you through the night or any kind of challenges? What are your feelings about that?

GRIMES: Well, obviously a re-canvass request, we have official results that are certified to us from our County Board of Elections, Friday. A re-canvass is requested by next Tuesday, and would then be conducted the following Thursday, if that's necessary.

In terms of absentee vote totals that could be outstanding, that's obviously something that Governor Bevin could take into account, but not something that we see as a significant indicator here in calling this election.

In terms of the why, obviously, I think this is a return to stability. We have one of the most unpopular Governors, if not the most unpopular Governor in the nation who has been unseated by a Democratic Attorney General.

And despite the efforts of President Trump to come and rally the Commonwealth, it was not enough to help the top of the ticket actually succeed.

CUOMO: Now, you just said something that may throw a little bit of the audience in terms of parlance. In your State, there is no automatic re-count. But either candidate can go to court to request one, full or partial. So, this is on Governor Bevin to make that decision, is that correct?

GRIMES: That is exactly right. And the first process is known as a re- canvass, which does not involve the court. A second process is known as a re-count, which would actually involve the court system.

CUOMO: What's the difference between a re-canvass and a re-count?

GRIMES: Re-canvass is a re-look at all of the vote totals, making sure that there was no human error and entering them as in terms of tabulation. Re-count would actually re-look at every vote as it was tallied on election night and certified by our County Board of Elections coming up this Friday.

CUOMO: You ever had one this close?

GRIMES: I have. I've had numerous re-canvasses in my eight years as Kentucky Secretary of State, approaching over 20-plus. I think it's worth noting Governor Bevin actually got here by less than 84 votes.

He's winning his primary against then-Commissioner Comer, who is now Congressman Comer. He's no stranger to slim elections and slim margins, obviously not the successor in tonight's election.

And from our understanding, not just here in the Commonwealth, but the AP as well has called this election. And we will have our County Board of Elections certify these results to my office this Friday, and await any requests that might be made by any candidate, including Governor Bevin. END