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Cuomo Prime Time
Michael Bloomberg Takes Steps To Enter Democratic Primary; Pete Buttigieg In Top Tier In New Iowa 2020 Poll; Buttigieg: Trump Doesn't Respect Presidency Or Himself. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 07, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MARY RODGERS, PRINCIPAL SCIENTIST OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH, ABBOTT LABORATORIES: --different strain of HIV and that's why we're looking everywhere. We're not just looking in Africa. We're not just looking in Asia. We're not just looking in other continents. We're looking everywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: It was a really interesting conversation. You can watch the whole thing at CNN.com/FullCircle, which is where you can also watch Full Circle live weekdays at 5 P.M. Eastern.
News continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Former New York City Mayor, and billionaire, Michael Bloomberg, taking steps to enter the race.
Is this playing like a distress call? But it certainly has to be a gut-check? Is this the suggestion that the Democratic field is too weak? Is Bloomberg saying out loud what many wonder about?
We're going to show you why Bloomberg thinks he can get in, what it could mean for the race, as we hear from another Democrat who's definitely on the rise, Pete Buttigieg. He says "I'm the man for the job and the fight."
What do you say? Let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Look, impeachment matters but it's somewhat of an X-factor in the election. What just happened tonight is not. It matters more. Why? Bloomberg being expected to file for the Alabama presidential primary.
Why Alabama? Alabama has an unusually early filing deadline. So, this is a sign Bloomberg's for real. He wants to get on as many ballots as he can. He's just couple of months out from the first voting.
So, CNN has learned that Bloomberg has been making calls to a handful of connected Democrats in the last 36 hours, including some in Iowa, and someone in South Carolina, at least one Mayor, where Iowa, remember, first cast a vast - first votes are cast there in February.
Now, is he really getting in? Here's this for more proof. Follow me to the wall because we're going to spell this out for you.
From CNN, more color from just tonight. Mr. Bloomberg went to a restaurant in New York City tonight. He was met by big applause, no real surprise.
One of the people there, reached out, shook his hand, say, "You got my vote," and you know what he said, reportedly? "I'm going to need it," not "We'll see," not "Maybe fellas," "I'm going to need it."
All right, what's it about? What does it reveal? What does it really mean now and going forward? Let's bring in former New Orleans Mayor, Mitch Landrieu, and The Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten.
Gentlemen, thank you very much.
MITCH LANDRIEU, (D) FORMER NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: Good to see you.
CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Harry.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Shalom.
CUOMO: All right, so let's - everyone's giving the headline. Let's get to why this is happening. Let's start counterintuitive. Bloomberg, what did we know about him early on when he was thinking about getting in?
ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, if he was thinking about getting in, this was a poll just before he said initially he wasn't getting in. Remember that?
This is a national poll, top choices for Democratic nominee. Mike Bloomberg was only at 2 percent. Joe Biden was leading the field at that point at 28 percent.
So, what we saw was Mike Bloomberg was polling quite weakly nationally, and it wasn't just that he was polling weakly nationally. He was polling weakly in the State of Iowa.
So, basically they asked you have a favorable or unfavorable rating of Michael Bloomberg among likely Iowa Democratic Caucusgoers, only 27 percent had a favorable view of him, 38 percent had an unfavorable view, and this is among the Democratic Caucus Electorate. These are not good numbers.
CUOMO: And Mitch, you're shaking your head, because early on, you know, there was this back story.
LANDRIEU: Yes.
CUOMO: Bloomberg hates Trump, you know, like he's a real billionaire. This guy's a fugazi billionaire. And he's not going to run against him, if he can't beat him, because his pride can't take it.
LANDRIEU: Right.
CUOMO: So, he's out of the race, goodbye. What do you think changed? What does this mean to you?
LANDRIEU: Well, I don't know, I like him. And - and if he ran, and he got elected, he'd be a good President. But this is about whether you can get elected or not. This is a big foot move.
You know, I don't think a lot of people think this is a horse race. But really, it's a Roller derby. So, one of the questions is not is he going to do well, although that's important, but who's he going to hurt, if in fact he really means what he says.
And he's willing to actually kind of lay down the kind of money that he has. And campaign, based on a record that was fairly good from New York, and he's got to hurt the centrist candidates.
CUOMO: Now, it's hard to measure what he means in the race because he has not been measured in a very long time. And he's getting in very late. I asked Harry earlier, "What can we compare him to?" You said, "Nobody except one Republican."
ENTEN: Yes. I mean Fred Thompson entered the race very late in 2008. He actually entered with much higher poll numbers, and then he fell apart. Getting in the race late is very, very difficult because you have to build out an organization, which Mike Bloomberg hasn't yet.
Obviously, he has a ton of money. But he has to build out that organization. It's not clear he really has supporters on the ground based upon these polling numbers. So, I am, to put it mildly, suspect. But, of course, we'll see.
CUOMO: So--
LANDRIEU: Well but what was different--
CUOMO: Go ahead, Mitch.
LANDRIEU: Well what's different about him from Senator Thompson is that he already has a national network of people that he's worked with for a long period of time, and he has the resources to do it.
Having said that, you're still starting late. It's a high climb. And the question gets to be "Well who else are you hurting by getting in?" And he's getting in on the middle side of the Democratic Party. So, he doesn't hurt Elizabeth Warren. He doesn't hurt Bernie Sanders.
He hurts Biden. He hurts Buttigieg. He hurts Klobuchar, and everybody else.
CUOMO: Well he hurts--
LANDRIEU: And he'll be formidable.
CUOMO: --all of them.
LANDRIEU: Correct.
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CUOMO: Because he winds up being a shout of what Landrieu, Enten, I, and so many reporters have been hearing. "They're not crazy about this field."
LANDRIEU: Right.
CUOMO: "Nice people, smart people, kind of this dissertation fight about healthcare. But we don't know that we have a Dragon-slayer."
He's saying it out loud. I don't think it's as much about what he thinks about himself. It's what he thinks about the rest of the field. Now, let's put some meat on the bones of his suggestion of weakness.
What is he seeing that yields the idea, "Ooh, this field! I don't know."
ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, this is Iowa Caucus - likely Iowa Caucus score. This is a recent Quinnipiac University poll, literally out yesterday. And what do we see in Iowa? Basically, a top tier, where everybody is between the top tier candidates between 15 percent and 20 percent, this is a complete mess.
And so, he's thinking, "Wait a minute! Joe Biden, the guy who, you know, perhaps I think has the best chance of beating Donald Trump is actually running at the bottom of this top tier. And Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders combined 37 percent."
But he's thinking, "Hey, I can get up to 21 percent, win these Iowa Caucuses given the fact that I have a ton of money, and no one is particularly high at this point."
CUOMO: Now, we had - we were together once earlier on.
LANDRIEU: Yes.
CUOMO: You do so many hits, you forget. And I was--
LANDRIEU: I'll never forget you.
CUOMO: --I - I was yapping about all these different metrics. And you said, "Can you be Donald Trump? Why are you getting into all these issues?" LANDRIEU: Right.
CUOMO: That's going to be the question for Democrats. Now, we know that from the polls, no?
ENTEN: Yes. Oh, we absolutely know that from the polls. I mean, well first off, I think that this is rather important. You know, we're talking about the swing states. And right at this particular point, what do we see?
We see that in the swing states, these are recent New York Times/Siena College polls, we see that basically all of these candidates against Donald Trump in these key swing states that Trump won in 2016, they are running very, very close. It's a very tight race.
Biden running the strongest, but Elizabeth Warren, who's been rising the most in the polls, she's either losing or basically even with him--
LANDRIEU: Yes.
ENTEN: --in these key swing states.
CUOMO: And this is what Mitch was saying. "Wait till the state-by- states come in."
LANDRIEU: I would say just absolutely Joe Biden has shown again and again that he is the best person who is best positioned to beat Donald Trump, if you take national polls.
If you start show - start showing Iowa and New Hampshire, and he's starting to fade, people get nervous, but the Biden campaign has said, "Look, our firewall's South Carolina. When we roll into the South, we're going to do great. And Super Tuesday, we are going to be fine."
What I worry about, about Mike Bloomberg, who I like very, very much, is when he goes South, what is actually going to happen in such a short period of time? But he will take away, and hurt (ph) from other people, and he may ascend. I don't really know.
CUOMO: Well follow question, let's leave Bloomberg out for a moment as just proof of a problem, OK? We don't know how he's going to do. We don't know his viability. The early polling was bad. He's got a lot of money. I'm sure he's done plenty.
LANDRIEU: Sure.
CUOMO: But he's made a decision not to put his money where his mouth is, but to put his mouth where his money is.
LANDRIEU: Right.
CUOMO: So, let's talk about why. When you say Biden's theory is, "Do you still believe it in light of these states, and these razor thin margins?" Even here, you're going to be within MOE, basically, it's a dead heat. LANDRIEU: Yes. But it's Blue.
CUOMO: Blue--
LANDRIEU: It's - it's not Red.
CUOMO: But within the--
ENTEN: Right. Within the margin of error, I mean--
LANDRIEU: Right. No question.
ENTEN: Within the margin of error, and I think that this is very concerning.
And I think it's more than that. I mean it's also concerning, when you look at the Iowa poll - Iowa polls, right? What do we basically see in Iowa, which is obviously the first contest among Democrat?
Joe Biden was at 32 percent a year ago, then he drops to 27 percent, then 23 percent, then 20 percent, then 17 percent. His support basically dropped in half within a year, and voters are now paying very much more close attention to the Iowa Caucuses.
And I think that these are very concerning. And you feel like the centrist candidate can't beat back either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.
LANDRIEU: And I have not spoken to Mike Bloomberg. My guess is he's looking at those numbers, and his guess is that those numbers are going to keep getting worse.
CUOMO: Yes. It's got to be his guess because he's doing something here.
Again, this back story, supposedly the one thing Bloomberg didn't want to do is lose to Trump. We don't know what's changed in his calculus about himself. But obviously, he has a sense of desperation about the field.
All right, the national picture. And again, because, you know, so many of you are always saying, "Well I'll vote for any of these people because they all beat this President," why do they believe that?
ENTEN: Well I - I think they essentially believe it because if you were essentially to look - whoops, no, there we go, here we are. So essentially, if you were to look at the national polls, what do you see?
You see that Biden, Sanders, and Warren in the average of polls are all beating Donald Trump. But again, I just come back. We learned last time around, we learned in 2000 that it's the swing states that matter.
And the six closest swing states that Trump won in 2016, Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, much closer races. And in the average, even Biden's just ahead by a point. And this, to me, is very, very worrisome for the Democrats.
And it's someone like Michael Bloomberg who's looking at these numbers--
CUOMO: Right.
ENTEN: --and saying, "Hey, Biden can't"--
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CUOMO: Now, I'm not saying, "Panic! Panic! Panic!" But this has to be a gut-check. Bloomberg is not going to waste his time, all right, nor his ego. Do you believe this is a gut-check for the Democrats? And if so, where should their heads go now?
LANDRIEU: Well I think that this is a - this is a skunk in the - in the punchbowl at the party. There's no question about--
CUOMO: Skunk in the punchbowl!
LANDRIEU: And so Mike Bloomberg - Mike Bloomberg--
CUOMO: Is that what happens down where you're from?
LANDRIEU: That sort of thing - that's what we have if you want to mess up a party. You throw a skunk in the punchbowl.
But I think Mike Bloomberg looked at these numbers, and he said, my best guess is that - that Senator Biden, Vice President Biden is in trouble. And if he falls that he doesn't think that Sanders or Warren can win, and I think his guess is that given his credentials that he can step into it, and actually beat Donald Trump.
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That's the only thing that can explain why he's decided to put his credibility, his money, his experience, on the line, and to do this, and I think it's going to scramble the field in a pretty significant way in the next couple of weeks.
How? That's anybody's guess. I don't think we know that.
CUOMO: Right.
LANDRIEU: But I think that's his calculation.
CUOMO: Yes. And again, I think what it means when Bloomberg gets in is secondary to what it means that he's even thinking about it, all right?
All right, this is a great table-setter because it takes us beyond the headline, right? Everybody's - you seeing it, oh, it's blowing up your phone, "Bloomberg's thinking of getting in." We just showed you why he'd even be thinking about it.
The question becomes now, what does this tell us about the expectation for what this race will be like against this President? And what, arguably, Democrats have been ignoring all this time?
Mitch Landrieu is going to stay around. We're going to talk to one of the Mayors that was contacted by Bloomberg, to feel out where he might be in his state. Stay with us.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: All right, let's go deeper now. We put some meat on the bones of why former New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg, billionaire, famous, but decided not to run, would change his mind suddenly.
We showed you the numbers of where there is cause for concern about the strength of the Democratic field. Now we have more proof about this, OK? In the last month, we had been getting reports of Bloomberg making phone calls.
Now, let's set the stage. Remember what Michael Bloomberg was saying not too long ago about his political future.
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MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, CEO, BLOOMBERG L.P., FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: But the truth of the matter is when you look at the layout of who's going to vote, and where the country is, I would be very unlikely to get reelected - to get elected. But in the private sector, I can make a difference.
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CUOMO: September 25th. Now, I'm no mathematician. But I'm figuring that's only about a month and a little bit ago. What changed?
Mayor Mitch Landrieu is here with me right now. We want to talk to Mayor Steve Benjamin of Columbia, South Carolina. He's on the phone.
Mr. Mayor, can you hear us?
MAYOR STEVE BENJAMIN, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA: I can hear you, Chris. How are you?
CUOMO: I have your--
BENJAMIN: Hey, Mitch.
CUOMO: I have your friend.
LANDRIEU: Hi, Steve.
CUOMO: Mayor Landrieu here to kind of keep you on the straight and narrow, in case you try to dodge the question here. Is it true that Mayor Bloomberg called you to get a feeler for South Carolina?
BENJAMIN: You know, honestly, we have - we actually had - had dinner and on Mitch's - attended CityLab in the past about a week and a half ago, I had an opportunity to have a face-to-face.
And - and - and really, it wasn't necessarily - he was not fishing. But we were just speaking frankly about - about the state of the race, asked for some perspective on South Carolina, what was happening down here, and what we're seeing across the country. And I - I - I shared my opinions.
CUOMO: Let's hear them. What were you two--
BENJAMIN: Well--
CUOMO: --talking about?
BENJAMIN: A little bit of everything. I mean I am, you know, the - the field, although we dropped - a few folks have dropped out or - or lost the race, it's still fairly crowded.
I mean I think there's still an opportunity just as we saw in 2016 on the Republican side of the aisle for someone that did not (ph), you know, 15 percent, 16 percent, 18 percent, 20 percent of the vote, and still, you know, be win place (ph) to show first, second, or third.
You know, my - my opinions, those I shared with the - with the - with the Mayor, with - which were the same I shared with - that with every single candidate in the - in the race so far, rather face-to-face or - or - or - or - or by phone with one of them.
And I encouraged them to stress economic opportunity, talk about, you know, how we - we - we push back on some of these macro trends we're seeing, the difficulty for folks to really achieve the American Dream, do better than their parents - than their parents did.
And we - we - we talked about, you know, some challenges we see in the race where you had candidates who - who - who - who - who talk about climate, but I don't think there's anyone in - in the country who's done more in the climate space than Mike Bloomberg.
We talk about guns, his leadership, helping town - every town, and Mayor again - Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and executive experience is real.
I mean New York City is not one of the largest city in the country, but at the center of the - what the 10th largest GDP in - in the world, $1.86 trillion. And, you know, his - his business experiences is close to unparalleled.
So, those are all strengths that we all obviously, you know, Mitch and I are both been through many elections. You bring your strength and - and - and you - and you - and you speak to them.
And - and, in South Carolina, I - I - I can only profess to be a semi- expert in South Carolina. I can't speak to Nevada or New Hampshire or Iowa. You got to get down here. You got to meet the people. You got to speak to them about their hopes and dreams and - and challenges, and really offer what we have to do.
I - I - I worked for Mitch Landrieu. I was his Vice President at the U.S. Conference of Mayors.
We got all around the country, and indeed all around the world, just talking about how Mayors have to lead pragmatically. You got to solve problems. We don't have the ability to run high (ph) D.C. or even a high in the Governor's Mansion in the State Capital.
Our constituents see us on the ground, in the grocery store, at church, synagogue, mosque, at the - at the - at the traffic light, so we have to be responsive.
And I think the Mayor's got a - a legit shot at showing how he solved problems in New York City. You know, so that being said, we also, I think, as a party, you know, suffering from an embarrassment of riches.
We have - we have an incredibly strong field. And I think it's just going to - it just is going to push everyone to - to really step up their game, and - and put the best foot forward.
LANDRIEU: But Steven, let me ask you this question. You know, I think both you and I have the greatest respect for Mayor Bloomberg, and think that if he got elected President, he'd be a great President.
[21:20:00]
But just from a pure political matter, how do you think that he's going to be able to do in South Carolina, getting in as a late entry with the crowded field that we have?
BENJAMIN: You know, all the - all of these candidates have really strong teams on the ground already, you know, some - obviously, my - my former Comms Director ran Beto's campaign, you know. So - so some teams are being disbanded as we speak.
But it's amazing how many folks are still undecided, Mitch, you know, so there - there's still a whole lot of folks undecided. You know, I think Mayor has a - a real appeal to people who are left to Center, at center, and right of center--
LANDRIEU: Right.
BENJAMIN: --that who - who might still be looking for, you know, for a home. I mean-- LANDRIEU: Right. And - and you but--
BENJAMIN: --I wouldn't say it's a ratio (ph) but - but he has a - he has a pretty, you know, serious story of - of - of building wealth. And then, as you and I both know, you know, having benefited from Bloomberg philanthropies over the year, you know, he - he's - he's never hesitated to give back.
And, you know, he's - he's committed that he's going to, you know, die broke, you know, just by helping - helping improve the world. So, I think there's room there, you know, but - but nothing - nothing in - in politics anymore is handed to you.
LANDRIEU: Right.
BENJAMIN: You got to get out there, you got to grind for it. And that means--
LANDRIEU: Well no question.
BENJAMIN: --yes, that - that means being in the big cities but also means being on Ms. Johnson's front porch--
LANDRIEU: Sure.
BENJAMIN: --in rural South Carolina, talking turkey.
LANDRIEU: And he's been spectacular in that way. But you're - you're a smart politician.
When you looked into his eyes, did you think after you finished talking to him that he was really serious and that he was going to lean forward on this, and that he was actually going to make the jump today?
BENJAMIN: I - I - I - I was - I - I wasn't surprised. I could tell that the sense of gravity that the - that the Trump Presidency represents was weighing on him. It was real.
I wonder, and this - and this is pure speculation, so - so please don't assign this to - to Mayor Bloomberg. I - I do wonder if - if the formal withdrawal from Paris also represented some sort of a tipping point for him.
LANDRIEU: Yes.
BENJAMIN: You know, seeing climate as a - as a truly existential threat to - to human - human life, all - all - all life for that matter.
CUOMO: Right.
BENJAMIN: I mean I wonder if that - if that played a role in the timing. I don't know that. But I wouldn't be surprised--
CUOMO: Yes. BENJAMIN: --it was based on--
CUOMO: I'll tell you though, Mr. Mayor.
BENJAMIN: --conversations we had before.
CUOMO: This is kind of decision, you guys know it because you lived it. I've lived around it my whole life. You don't get in just on the strength of an issue. It's got to be part of a calculus--
LANDRIEU: Yes.
CUOMO: --about how you'll do, what it means in that field. I do not think the Mayor believes you have an embarrassment of riches in your party. I think he thinks you have a paucity of riches, and that you don't have a Dragon-slayer. Otherwise, he wouldn't it.
LANDRIEU: Right.
BENJAMIN: I'm - I'm--
CUOMO: So, Mr. Mayor, thank you very much, appreciate it.
BENJAMIN: Thank you, thank you, Chris. Take care, Mitch.
CUOMO: Thank you.
LANDRIEU: I - I think that - I know Mike Bloomberg well. I've known him for a long time. I worked with him and for him from time to time.
I understand that he's a real patriot. He loves this country. He committed himself to being the Mayor of the - of the biggest city. And - and he operates on a world stage. And I think that he believes that Donald Trump is an existential threat.
I think he saw some weakness in the Democratic field. He took - he made a calculated guess that it was getting worse for the center rather than better.
And I think he decided, given everything that he saw, given the direction that we're going with impeachment, and with climate, and all the other things that he just had to do it. That's the only thing that explains what he did today.
CUOMO: Now, look, he could come out and, shock us, and say--
LANDRIEU: He could.
CUOMO: --"I'm not going to run."
LANDRIEU: I doubt it.
CUOMO: "I'm just trying to check if it is."
LANDRIEU: I doubt it.
CUOMO: But we know one thing that he's got--
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LANDRIEU: I doubt it. Mike Bloomberg doesn't act like that.
CUOMO: True.
LANDRIEU: He's in it to win it.
CUOMO: But he's got one thing already that Trump doesn't have. Loyalty.
LANDRIEU: Yes. No question.
CUOMO: No one spoke about this, it shocked everybody.
LANDRIEU: No. Right.
CUOMO: Mr. Mayor.
LANDRIEU: Thank you. Appreciate you.
CUOMO: Thank you for helping us understand it, all right?
LANDRIEU: Appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right, Michael Bloomberg, seems like he's going to run, judging by everything we hear. Next, you're going to hear from someone who is in the race right now, and says, "Don't need him. I am the Dragon-slayer."
Mayor Pete Buttigieg making huge gains in Iowa, the first state to vote, what's his case? Next.
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CUOMO: Same night we get this breaking news on Bloomberg, earlier, I had a chance to sit down with Pete Buttigieg, and we talked about his giant leap in the polls in Iowa, and why he is the best in the party.
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CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for taking the opportunity.
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good to be with you.
CUOMO: All right, let's talk about the good news. The good news is you in Iowa polls are moving up. You are in the thick of what could be a four-person race. In the latest polls, Quinnipiac, Siena, ahead of the former VP.
Why do you think you are resonating more in a poll like this? And from whom do you think you are drawing support?
BUTTIGIEG: So, I think it's resonating because we have the winning message. What I'm offering is a way to unify the American people, and still get the job done.
Look, that day the Sun comes up on this country, for the first time, and Donald Trump is no longer President, two things are going to be true. One is that we're going to be dangerously divided, even more than we are right now, if you just think about everything we've been through, and everything we're about to go through.
The other thing that's also true is all of these big issues, climate, an economy that isn't working for everybody, the need to do something about healthcare, those issues aren't going to take a vacation for impeachment. They haven't taken a vacation for Donald Trump. They're going to need urgent action.
So, the question is how do we get urgent action done and do it in a way that unifies, not polarizes, the American people? The more I talk about that, the more I see heads nodding everywhere I go.
I think the people of Iowa and the people of - of America, certainly across the Democratic Party, are ready for that vision. And I think it's why we're catching on and gaining ground, but, obviously a long way to go, and a lot of people to bring our message to, who haven't heard it yet.
CUOMO: Do you think you're taking support from anyone?
BUTTIGIEG: You know, it's hard for me to know. I'll leave that to the analysts. What - what I do believe is that this is a message that can connect with progressives, with moderates, and we're seeing some Republicans cross-over.
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They're showing up at my events. They're saying they're going to support us. And part of me wants to say, "Well did you see the speech because, you know, I'm pretty progressive." But they're not looking for somebody who agrees with them on every single issue.
I'm meeting Republicans who are just furious with what's being done in their name by this President, and looking for another way, and looking for somebody who's going to welcome everybody into a bigger coalition, to get these things done. CUOMO: You have to play the game of "Better me than dot, dot, dot," in party. Why better you than Sanders or Warren who are much more pleasing to the progressive progressives in your party? You know, you're too safe--
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
CUOMO: --Mr. Mayor.
BUTTIGIEG: Well what I'm offering is the most progressive Presidency of our lifetimes. Yes, it's true. I'm not going to go out to the extremes as some of the others will. But I'm also offering something that we can actually get done.
If we achieve this, Medicare for All Who Want It, it would be huge, and it's the best pathway we have toward a Medicare-for-All environment, if we're right that this is going to be the best--
CUOMO: Warren says it's a half-measure and the product of a campaign that is run by consultants for safe ideas. She didn't say you, sounds like you.
BUTTIGIEG: It's a great idea. It's the right thing to do. And it's the boldest thing we will have done to healthcare in more than 50 years. That's - that's no half measure. This is what it takes to actually get something done.
CUOMO: She goes farther, more ambitious.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
CUOMO: More Left than you.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
CUOMO: Why is that not better?
BUTTIGIEG: Because it's not better to command millions of Americans to abandon their private plans.
Look, most Americans want to be able to make this decision themselves. And I trust you to figure out whether you want to come on this public plan that I'm proposing we create or stick with what you've got.
CUOMO: It can't work--
BUTTIGIEG: I'm talking to--
CUOMO: --if people have private insurance. That's what Bernie Sanders--
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
CUOMO: --that's what Elizabeth Warren and others on that perspective will say. BUTTIGIEG: That's just not true. I mean we know how to have risk management protocols. We've done them in other insurance markets in the U.S. Other countries have done it.
Look, the bottom line is for a tiny fraction of the cost of what they're proposing, we can get every single American healthcare, and we do it in a way that respects your ability to make your decision.
CUOMO: So, on the other flank, you have the former VP, Joe Biden, who says, "I like the way this guy sounds, sounds like me. And I'm the former VP. I have the pedigree, and the experience, and I've been through this war many times. I know what it takes to beat Trump. So, next time, Mr. Mayor."
What do you say to them?
BUTTIGIEG: I say it can't wait. Here's the difference. And I've got obviously enormous respect for - for all my competitors. But I just don't agree that we can go back to normal that - that I don't believe that Donald Trump is a blip.
I believe that the emergence of the Trump Presidency is a symptom of some really serious deep problems that need attention in this country. And this is about building a new normal. This is about deciding what the next chapter in American history is going to be like, not going back to the last one.
CUOMO: So, you believe that you, not Biden, is a function of looking forward versus looking back?
BUTTIGIEG: In a way. The most important thing now is to make sure we create a vision of the future that can bring Americans together, and that doesn't have the weaknesses of the last 30-year, 40-year period we've been living in.
If things were going along just fine in this country before a Donald Trump, then a guy like Donald Trump would never been able to get within cheating distance to The Oval Office to begin with.
CUOMO: Now that you are establishing yourself in this top four, your negatives now will be drawn into sharper focus. What are they? Ostensibly, two, right?
The first one is, you know, you respect all your competitors. That's your problem.
You're about to get into a fight where respect may be a weakness against maybe the best campaigner in the bunch. You can argue with his tactics, and what is guiding this President. But boy, can he push a message!
And he's looking at you on the Left, and as you said in one of the debates, "You're all a bunch of socialists. You're all trying to take things from people. You're all trying to make everything OK. And you represent an "Other," and he's going to come at you, you're too nice." BUTTIGIEG: So, I believe in kindness, but no one should mistake my kindness for weakness. And when it comes to dealing with this President, of course, he's going to try the same playbook, but it's not going to work on me.
He's going to talk about socialism. But, in my case, he'll be saying that - that about a Mayor who worked with the private sector to deliver opportunities in our city. He's going to talk a big game about caring about working Americans.
But, you know, I live in a middle-class neighborhood in the Midwest, and drive a Chevy. I don't helicopter around to golf courses with my name on them. And--
CUOMO: Too young!
BUTTIGIEG: You know--
CUOMO: Not a gray hair on his head.
BUTTIGIEG: I'm starting to get--
CUOMO: Makes me even (ph) jealous.
BUTTIGIEG: Every time I open Twitter, I get a new gray hair.
Look, the reality is that we're living in a moment where around the world, we're seeing a new generation of leaders. Some of the most interesting and promising leaders in the world right now are the same age or younger than I would be on taking Office.
And I'll put my experience, guiding a city up against a whole lot, in terms of what we were dealing with in South Bend, guiding that city to a better future, not to mention my military experience. I'll put that up against any experience.
Yes, I'm young. I represent a new generation. You know what? Every single winning Democratic candidate in the last 50 years has been somebody who came from outside of Washington, was new on the national scene, talked lot about values, and represented a new generation of leadership.
[21:35:00]
CUOMO: Accepting President Obama, yes, vision, good, the vision thing, as they cynically say in politics, can resonate. But you're young and that becomes a coefficient of experience.
Small town Mayor, two-term, but doesn't have the experience. If this were a written test, you get an A. But it's not. It's a practical. You haven't dealt with these kinds of pressures that can kill the average man.
And even in that little town, you have a problem with African- Americans. They are the "Sine qua non," if we're going to play with Latin these days, they - this without this nothing, for Democrats, and they don't like you.
BUTTIGIEG: Well that's not true. The Black voters who know me best in the City of South Bend are largely responsible for how I got re- elected with 80 percent of the vote because of the good work that we were doing at home.
CUOMO: And polls that suggest they have issues with you.
BUTTIGIEG: There are a lot of - there's a lot of work that - that we've got to do to make sure that we earn every vote. But I reject the idea that - that I'm not going to be able to win Black voters.
First of all, we got to stop talking about the Black vote like it's one person. We're talking about a diverse constituency. And a lot of Americans who frankly have felt not only abused by the Republican Party, but taken advantage of by the Democratic Party, or taken for granted.
And so, we've got to make sure that we're showing we take nothing for granted that we're going to earn those votes. And The Douglass Plan that I've put forward to tackle systemic racism in this country is something that gets a terrific response from Black voters because I think it's the best policy out there.
I think that when Black voters know what is on my agenda but also what's on my heart, I'm going to earn that support, and we're working hard to do that.
CUOMO: When you say we still have work to do, we can accept that in the micro, in South Bend, whatever the particular constituency issues are there. You got to deal with them.
When you look at the polls in-house, and you see that you lag with African-Americans, specifically the all-important demographic of African-American women, middle-aged, why?
BUTTIGIEG: Well I think that when you are new on the scene, as I am, it takes extra work. I think that's part of why you see the VP's got a big advantage there right now. But that's nothing that I can't earn my way into.
The important thing is to keep up that engagement. When people hear our message, they love it. But I got to get out there and sell it. And that's especially true as somebody who doesn't have years or decades of familiariating on the national scene.
That doesn't deter me because I think the message that I have, one that is about ensuring that we deal, not only with issues like criminal justice reform, which we got to do, but also entrepreneurship.
A lot of the solutions have to do with economic empowerment. And it's Black-owned businesses, women-owned businesses that are going to be a huge part of the solution.
And we ought to be supporting that with policy, making sure that the federal government is doing more business with businesses owned by people who've been historically excluded, even co-investing to help businesses get on their feet.
That's going to create so many opportunities in this country. And that and other elements of The Douglass Plan, the - the agenda that I have to support Black-Americans, and tear down this systemic inequality, I think it's the right answer.
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CUOMO: All right, there is more to talk about with Mayor Pete. Where does his campaign stand on this Bloomberg development? What are his thoughts on impeachment being worth the pain?
And hear for the first time what he really thinks about this President, next.
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CUOMO: All right, we really got a lot out of Mayor Pete - Mayor Pete Buttigieg. And here are some things you have not heard before.
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CUOMO: Do you believe that impeachment, forget about principle, from a pragmatic perspective, is it worth the time and energy? Does it leave us in a better place?
BUTTIGIEG: I think, as a country, it's worth it because the Constitution calls for it. It's just one of those moments where you got to set aside the politics. I don't know what the political effects are going to be. I don't think we should pay attention to that.
I mean, obviously, as a candidate for Office, I'm going to deal with the environment that we're in. And it is an issue that's - that's on voters' minds.
But the biggest thing I'm being asked about is, the question I think every voter, at the end of the day, asks is, "How's my life going to be different?"
CUOMO: You saw that a guy like Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, OK, he has the kind of pedigree you almost can't make up in terms of how much duty to service there has been. And he got attacked.
Bill Taylor, the diplomat who has so many years, and who was asked to come in, and do this job, he gets attacked.
In the back of your mind, do you think, "Ooh, I don't even know what I'm getting into yet."
This game is about bleeding, and who bleeds out first. I know that sounds completely dramatic. But it's the reality as well. How do you handle that?
BUTTIGIEG: You know, I was a 22-year old campaign staffer. My very first job, working on the Kerry campaign, out in Arizona, when an envelope came in to our campaign office, with a Purple Heart, and - a cutout of a Purple Heart and a Band Aid stuck to it.
This is nothing new, although they've definitely taken it to new depths. But we've seen this for some time, denigrating the service of war heroes, finding - scraping the absolute bottom of the bottom of the barrel, when it comes to the way that those in power right now treat anybody who gets in their way, even a decorated veteran like Colonel Vindman.
And I think it's all the more evidence of why things need to change. But I'll say this too. There comes a point where this is just unsustainable, just like that moment in the McCarthy hearings, where someone said, "Have you no sense of decency?"
And because I believe, deep down, there are Republican Senators and Congress Members, just as there are so many millions of Republican voters, who know that this is dead wrong, that sooner or later, as long as we're doing the right thing, this will - we will get to the other side of this.
And, in the meantime, my job is to make sure that this isn't even close. In other words, as a candidate for President, the best thing that could happen to defeat not just Trump, but Trumpism, is to make sure that we build such a strong coalition, such a big majority that there is such a thumping on in November of 2020 against Trumpism, and everything associated with it that it creates the shockwaves required to reunite Republicans in Elected Office with their conscience or lead to the dissolution and reinvention of that party.
CUOMO: You know, when they show national polls, all of you guys beat the President.
[21:45:00]
But when they did the state-by-state polls recently, he is strong and long in almost every state that matters. I mean just Michigan alone, you know, the Democrats keep talking about turning that back Blue. They got a lot of work to do.
What was the message for you in that? BUTTIGIEG: Well it's that we got to go out there, and do the work. And, you know, Michigan is - is literally, I'm not going to say that I can - I can see it from my porch, but it's maybe 10 minutes from my house. This is my part of the country, a lot of these states.
And what we've got to do is make sure that we're making the case. I just spent the last few days in Iowa, in largely Conservative communities, rural areas that are ready for a different message. But you got to show up. You got to bring that message to people where they are.
CUOMO: You talk a lot about respect, respect these competitors, even if they come at you, and they say things. Do you respect President Trump?
BUTTIGIEG: I mean I respect the Office of the Presidency. As a person--
CUOMO: The second part is what I'm talking about.
BUTTIGIEG: He's done--
CUOMO: The man.
BUTTIGIEG: He has done nothing to command my respect. I'll say that.
CUOMO: Why?
BUTTIGIEG: Because he doesn't respect his own Presidency. And frankly, at a deeper level, I don't think he respects himself. I think he has created a sort of cartoon character, which is fine if you're a reality TV star, where you're playing a part, even when the part is yourself.
When you're the President of the United States, lives depend on your integrity, on your wisdom, on your judgment, and I just don't see it in this White House.
CUOMO: And in the man, you don't see it?
BUTTIGIEG: I don't see any integrity there. I mean you - you look at him, and there's just a sense that he would do anything. This is the guy who's shown no evidence of any principle, other than that of advancing himself.
And that is so costly right now, especially now that he's actually got this level of power, and we're seeing the consequences at home where, by the way, he's also not been able to deliver on any of the things that he's set out to do or promised.
The only promise he's managed to keep is a tax cut for the enormously wealthy, that and some Conservative judicial appointments. The rest, none of it's happening.
Manufacturing workers are actually finding themselves worse off. He's not building the wall. He's never going to build the wall. And the party did build - build - they're sawing through - I mean, none of the things he said he was going to do are happening.
And moreover, I don't think any of the things he said he was going to do are things he actually cares about.
CUOMO: Mayor Pete, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Good luck going forward. We'll talk to you again.
BUTTIGIEG: Good to be with you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: It's good to have him on such an important night. Mayor Pete's campaign says Mayor Mike getting in the race would change nothing. They say they have a game plan, and it is working so far.
My argument is that this news about Bloomberg matters, but not for the reason that people seem to think. Let me know what you think of the argument, next.
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CUOMO: My argument. Bloomberg getting in, if he does, would say more about the field than his chances of winning.
This should be a wake-up call, potential confirmation of whispers in Democratic circles around the country. You've heard them. "Do we have a Dragon-slayer in this group?"
Democrats may be looking at the wrong polls, as they did in 2016. Look, nationwide, the match-ups look good. I get it. I've reported it.
But what did we just see? Same thing we saw in 2016. In key states, Trump is tough, and he can win the same way, as last time, potentially. So, this news raises questions Democrats must address.
Number one, is the Dragon-slayer in this field? No one should want a dirty fight, of course. But if you're getting into the ring with this Champ, that's what you'll be facing.
And the dense and hyper-ambitious M-for-A, Medicare-for-All talk seems to miss the state of play. It's like working on pretty footwork and your style, when your opponent is standing there with a shotgun. Remember, this is a big part of why Trump won in 2016.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Hillary Rotten Clinton, Rotten Clinton.
Little Marco, Little Marco.
Lyin' Ted Cruz.
Low-energy Jeb Bush.
Crooked Hillary Clinton.
Crazy Bernie.
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CUOMO: Insults, not insights, simple, not sophisticated.
Look, Bloomberg getting in suggests not so much that he thinks he can win, I don't know where he's getting that from, but that this field can't. His top adviser said, "Mike is increasingly concerned that the current field of candidates is not well-positioned to defeat Trump."
The Democratic nominee has to be properly armed for the onslaught that's coming. What does that mean? You've got to answer.
Question number two, are you speaking the language that America wants to hear right now?
No offense, but again, this dense talk and sophisticated policy plans of a trillion here, and trillion there, and three years versus five, and I'm going to take your healthcare, this is about not being the Rabid Right. Do you do that if you are seen as an equal opposite of Radical Left?
Single-payer or not, Medicare-for-All versus Medicare for All Who Want It, this is dense in times of determined simplicity.
The Democratic Governor-elect, OK, promised to protect Obamacare and the Medicaid expansion. Kentucky kept it simple, OK? He spoke the language of the local people, targeted.
Many of the Democratic candidates are talking about blowing up the entire system. To many, it sounds equally as crazy as what they're getting from Trump.
Remember, he kept it simple. "Build the wall! Lock her up!"
I'm not endorsing the ideas. But you're going to be up against them. And you're going to have to convince people that you have something better in a way that they can understand.
[21:55:00] If you're not going to take a page from the President, and I'm not saying that they should, you got to take one from that next Governor of Kentucky. Simplify, speak their language, speak to their specific needs, as they live them, not the potential of the future, now.
Question number three. How do you translate voter turnout into reality at the polls? Virginia and Kentucky benefited from people coming out. We don't know the exact numbers yet, but we know they were up.
Answer those questions, and figure out how to be better, because that's why Bloomberg is getting in, and you may see more.
All right, that's the argument. When we come back, I have a BOLO for you. You've got to Be On the Look-Out of exactly why this President is to be feared, even among those who he gives a beat-down, next.
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CUOMO: BOLO means Be On the Look-Out.
Former A.G. Jeff Sessions was fired a year ago. Today - you remember what he called him back then, the POTUS, "Idiot." "Weak." "Disgraceful."
And yet, Sessions announced he was entering the Alabama Senate race today, saying, "When President Trump took on Washington, only one Senator out of a 100 had the courage to stand with him: me. I was the first to support President Trump. I was his strongest advocate. I still am."
BOLO, Trump controls the Right in a way we have rarely seen.
Thanks for watching. CNN TONIGHT, D. Lemon, right now.
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