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John Bolton's Lawyer Says He Has Information On Ukraine That Hasn't Been Disclosed; Fiona Hill, Alexander Vindman Testify Quid Pro Quo Effort Was Coordinated With Trump's Acting Chief Of Staff; Brazil's Former President Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva Freed From Jail; The Berlin Wall Debrief: Germany Marks Historic Anniversary; Australia Burning: Wildfires Pose "Unprecedented Threat". Aired 5-5:30p ET

Aired November 8, 2019 - 17:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Sunday morning.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Tonight on THE BRIEF, for the fifth day in a row, bombshell witness testimony in the impeachment inquiry has

been released. Brazil's controversial Former President Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva has been freed from prison. And this weekend marks 30 years since the

fall of the Berlin Wall. We'll discuss how Germany has changed.

Live from London I'm Bianca Nobilo, welcome to the show. Just ahead of public hearings next week, U.S. Democrats making the case for impeaching

President Donald Trump have released more damaging testimony from two key witnesses. This time we are learning about the closed-door deposition of

Fiona Hill Mr. Trump's Former Top Russia Adviser and Alexander Vindman, an Army Officer serving as a White House Ukraine Expert.

Both testified on the quid pro quo effort with Ukraine was coordinated with Mr. Trump's Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. Mulvaney who has

acknowledged that there have a quid pro quo, but later walked it back, ignored a subpoena to testify today. Today, a lawyer for John Bolton

meantime is apparently trying to entice House Democrats to subpoena the Former National Security Adviser saying he has information about, relevant

meetings and conversations that haven't been disclose in the testimonies so far.

Democrats dropped their plans to subpoena him, saying it could trigger long court battles that can drag out the impeachment process. President Trump

and his Republican supporters have been slamming the whole process as a secretive sham. Well, let's listen to the President now.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm not concerned about anything. The testimony has all been fine. For the most part I never even

heard of these people. I have no idea who they are. They shouldn't be having public appearances. This is a hoax this is just like the Russian

witch-hunt, this is just a continuation.


NOBILO: The witness transcripts released Friday are leading to increased scrutiny of Mr. Trump's Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. CNN's Alex Marquardt

has more.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Two of the most central player in the relationship with Ukraine putting the President's Chief of

Staff at the center of the scandal and delivering the harshest blow to the President's claim there was no quid pro quo.


TRUMP: This is a hoax. This is just like the Russian witch-hunt.


MARQUARDT: Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman a top Ukraine expert on the National Security Council telling lawmakers there was no ambiguity - that

in order for Ukraine's President to get a meeting at the White House, they had to investigate the Bidens. Vindman was on the call between the U.S. and

Ukrainian Presidents on July 25th which he said left no doubt this is what was required to get the meeting the Ukrainians had been aggressively

pushing for.

Vindman also heard that message from Gordon Sondland U.S. Ambassador to the European Union who was relaying a message Acting Chief of Staff Mick

Mulvaney. Mulvaney admitted to the quid pro quo last month.


MICK MULVANEY, ACTING CHIEF OF STAFF: Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.


MARQUARDT: The decorated Colonel testified he responded that it was inappropriate and had nothing to do with national security.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D-CA): Well, I want to thank Colonel Vindman for his courage in coming forward, his willingness to follow the law, to do his



MARQUARDT: Vindman wasn't alone. His then boss Dr. Fiona Hill read the transcript of the call and said she was shocked. I sat in an awful lot of

calls, she said, and I have not seen anything like this.

Hill had also have been told by Sondland the Mulvaney stated that Ukrainians would get a presidential meeting if the Ukrainians started up

these investigations again. Hill testified that Sondland told this directly to the Ukrainians in a July 10th meeting. John Bolton who was National

Security Adviser at the time suddenly ended the meeting.

Bolton then told Hill to report it to the top NSC lawyer, saying I'm not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up. Vindman

who was also disturbed by the meeting reported it as well. Hill and Vindman had both known about the role that Rudy Giuliani was playing in Ukraine,

pushing the conspiracy theories and working to get the U.S. Ambassador removed. After he was successful, Bolton told Hill that Giuliani was a hand

grenade that's going to blow everybody up.

Bianca, well, the reason that Mick Mulvaney is so central to this process now is because it's very simply he is the President's Acting Chief of

Staff. This is the senior most advisers to the President. Now, if you look at all of the transcripts that have been released everything we know that

has been said by these witnesses behind closed doors to the House Intelligence Committee and other committees they talk about some key

players who are pushing the parallel Ukraine policy.

You've got Rick Perry, the Energy Secretary, Kurt Volker the Special Envoy to Ukraine, Gordon Sondland, the U.S. Ambassador to the European Union and

of course Rudy Giuliani.


MARQUARDT: Now, we know from the witnesses that these were the men who were pushing the Ukrainians to come out and give a statement saying that they

would investigate Burisma, which is that energy company that Hunter Biden was on the board of as well as launching an investigation into the 2016


What we have is one of the President's closest advisers who talk with the President every single day and the two crucial witnesses today, Fiona Hill

and Alexander Vindman saying it was because of Mick Mulvaney that they were asking the Ukrainians to make these - to do these investigations. This is

coming from the Chief of Staff, so presumably Bianca it was coming from the President as well.

NOBILO: Alex Marquardt, thank you. For several months now the 2020 Democratic race has been about whittling down the crowded field. There are

signs today that a new name could be entering the fray. Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is expected to file paper work that would

allow him to jump into the race in the future if he wants to. Bloomberg's no fan of Donald Trump as he showed in a speech at the 2016 Democratic

Convention. Take a look.


MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Trump says he wants to run the nation like he's running his business? God help us.


BLOOMBERG: I'm a New Yorker, and I know a con when I see one.


NOBILO: Okay, so back in March, Bloomberg said that he would not run, but he is not confident in the left wing candidates like Elizabeth Warren and

Bernie Sanders. A longtime aide to the Former Mayor says we now need to finish the job and make ensure that Trump is defeated. But Mike is

increasingly concerned that the current field of candidates is not well positioned to do that.

But it takes more than just liking to President to win the Democratic nomination. It takes votes of course. And it's not clear that a moderate

like Bloomberg would be popular with Democratic voters.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: This was a national poll taken in March by Monmouth University. And where was Mike Bloomberg polling? He was

only at 2 percent. I don't have to tell you even if you're not good at math, a 2 percent not very high. So the idea that he's going to come in and

magically pick up all the support, let's just say I'm a little skeptical.

NOBILO: Harry Enten there for us. Well, it's been a tumultuous day in the UK election campaign as both major parties have had candidates step aside

due to controversial comments that they have made. We are learning that the leaders of those parties, the Conservative Party and the Labour Party will

square off in a primetime debate on December 6th, just six days before the election.

Prime Minster Boris Johnson is hoping voters will give him a majority in parliament to get his Brexit deal through. Jeremy Corbyn, the option leader

wants a new Brexit deal from Europe which he's going to renegotiate and then he'll put it to the people in a second referendum.

Audiences watching the debate won't hear from the liberal Democrats, one of the key parties that resolutely opposes Brexit. Their party Leader Jill

Swanson you're looking at now has not been including in the debate one the sixth and one later this month. The Liberal Democrats say "The decision to

host a TV debate between two Brexiteers is outrageous. Million of Romaine's deserved to have their voices heard".

Despite being left out of two debates, Jill Swanson has been invited to the Sky New Debate on November 28th and other than the independents, and SMP

the Liberal Democrats were one of the largest minor parties in parliament finishing this last parliament that just disowned with about 20 MPs, some

of which crossed the floor.

Now Brazil's Former President Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva is now a free man. A judge ordered his release after Brazil's Supreme Court ruled defendants

should go to prison only if they've exhausted all appeals. A short time ago hundreds of supporters met Lula as he emerged from jail after a year and a


Despite being free, the two-time President is still battling corruption and money laundering charges. Lula spoke following his release. For more on

that, Shasta Darlington joins me now from South Polar. Shasta what did Lula have to say upon his release?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, JOURNALIST: Well, Bianca, it was actually a sort of a celebratory speech that he gave. He started out by thanking all the

supporters and family and friends and party faithful who camped out outside that jail in Southern City of - for a year and a half many of them changing

places, keeping music going. He expressed his eternal gratitude and said over and over again, this was a moment of love.

He said I leave here without hate. I'm 74 years old and there's only room in my heart for love. He also took to time to take he also took to time to

take swipes at the current President Jair Bolsonaro to criticize the policies that he has implemented since he was elected last October.


DARLINGTON: His parting message was that after celebrating with all of these supporters, he planned to come to Sao Paulo to the metal workers

union right outside in the suburbs where he really got his political start during the military dictatorship. And that it's there that he'll be meeting

with the party and really starting tours around the country to fire up his supporters.

You have to remember, Lula was President twice and he was also leading polls to be a President for a third time when courts ruled that he couldn't

run, and it was Jair Bolsonaro who was elected instead. So we expect the polarization just to get worse, Bianca.

NOBILO: Shasta Darlington, always good to see you. Thanks very much. The death of a 22-year-old student protester is sparking new unrest in Hong

Kong. Pro-Democracy activist blame police for his death but law enforcement is denying any role in it. CNN's Will Ripley was on hand as vigils erupted

into violent protests.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For some of Hong Kong's top students on Graduation Day, no joy only grief. As their canceled commencement ceremony

becomes a moment of silence for a friend and fellow student. Alex Chow died Friday morning. He spent nearly a week in intensive care. He fell to his

death from the scene of a protest as police fired tear gas nearby. Protestors and friends say police's actions that night delayed paramedic's

arrival to aid Chow, but police say protesters barricaded roads.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of us have sacrificed and a lot have been injured because of the Hong Kong government is incapable of doing.


RIPLEY: Hong Kong University of Science and Technology held one Formal Graduation Ceremony on Friday morning just before news broke that Chow was

dead. The second ceremony of the day was canceled a failed attempt to avoid this. As we were filming an interview, dozens of young people in black,

wearing full face masks in defiance of Hong Kong law, smashed their way into a campus dining hall.

It took just a couple of minutes for that group of protester to do all this damage. They have essentially trashed their cafeteria on campus. It's these

acts of disruption - we are just trying to shot something - it's these acts of disruption that the protestors say are going to continue and it's this

kind of event, the death of a student that, fuels their anger.

Like so many students here in Hong Kong, friends of Alex Chow say he put down his books and joined this summer often intense anti-government



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually I saw his Instagram story. It's like he hates the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said he hated the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he hates the government because the government will never listen to people and the police was, like, crazy and mad.


RIPLEY: Late on Monday night, the 22-year-old fell between floors at a car park. He never woke up from a severe head injury. Police say they don't

know how he fell. But rumors are rampant online. There have been protests nearby tear gas had been fired. An investigation is under way, but police

insist there were no officers on the scene when the incident occurred, and they did not obstruct ambulance or rescue teams.


FOO YAT TING, HONG KONG POLICE: There are acquisitions that police officer chased after the man before he fell. We must clarify that it is certainly



RIPLEY: That explanation doesn't matter to those who say they hate the police and have no trust in the Hong Kong government. To many it's just

another lie, another cover up.

NOBILO: Friends of Alex Chow say that if the police hadn't been clearing the area, then Alex wouldn't have gone to take a look and he wouldn't have

fallen and died. 30 years ago this weekend, the Berlin wall began to crumble. Coming up on the debrief what it meant then and what it mean now?


NOBILO: One of the most famous moments in modern history happened 30 years ago this weekend. East Germany's communist government ended it ban on

travel to West Germany and within minutes jubilant Germans were dismantling a wall that divided East and West Berlin. The demise of the wall led to the

collapse of the East German government and the Germany's political reunification. Our Fred Pleitgen takes a look back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The line of demarcation in the cold war lies in Berlin.


FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For 28 years the Berlin Wall symbolized the struggle between capitalism and communism and

the cruel division between the people of East and West Berlin.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.


PLEITGEN: So here at CNN we actually own our own CNN car. This was the epitome of communist East German Automotive Engineering. For the

anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall we're going to do, is we're going to take this car and take a drive back into history. That is if I fit

into the car because it's small, and I'm big. Ugh, ready to go.

The remnants of the wall are a tourist attraction nowadays, but this deadly barrier with border guards, observation tower and barb wires struck fear

into the Berliners it divided. I stop and pick up Peter Bieber. The Wall it needed to keep people from fleeing into the West.

PETER BEIBER, ESCAPED EAST GERMAN: You looked and saw the wall. You know? You know it's the end. The end of the world you can go where you want.

PLEITGEN: As a young man, Peter Beiber attempted to flee East Germany several times until he finally succeeded in the 1972. He then helped others

get out as well until he was betrayed and arrested by East Germany's secret police and spent five years in jail there.

BEIBER: It was a little - psychological--

PLEITGEN: Psychological terror.

BEIBER: Yes. I sit in a little room. Not so light. Then one month, two months, nobody came and said anything.

PLEITGEN: The West German government eventually paid East Germany to release Peter Beiber but many others who tried to get away paid with their

lives more than 100 of them in Berlin. In 1989, East Germans had had enough after a wave of mass protests the regime opened the wall, leading to mass

celebrations as people all over the world joins in to literally tear down the wall.

BEIBER: I think about the freedom that's for me the highest point was--

PLEITGEN: The highest good that people can have is freedom.


PLEITGEN: 30 years later, a united Berlin is thriving, having shed the shackles of communism and dismantled the wall many thought could never be

breached. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.


NOBILO: Joining me now for a debrief on the Berlin Wall is Professor Matt Qvortrup of Coventry University. He is an expert on European politics. He

has also written a book about German Chancellor Angela Merkel who grew up in East Germany before German reunification. It's called "Angela Merkel

Europe's Missed Influential Leader". I now have a copy.


NOBILO: Thank you very much. So the wall has now gone, but how many divisions between East and West Berlin remain and what are they?

MATT QVORTRUP, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, COVENTRY UNIVERSITY: Well, the main division that is there is a political division. If you look at the

political parties that get elect in the Former East Germany, they are party to the very far left or to the very far right. In the most recent election,

the former communist party, the party that ruled East Germany, the successor party won that election and the second party was AFD which is

very far right party.

Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats were only third. Those political socializations haven't quite happened. There's also quite a lot of poverty

there. Anybody with aspiration from East Germany would go to the west. So it's very visible. Of course it's not as poor as it used to be, but

probably more visible than any of the other former states in the former communist bloc.

NOBILO: There has been a lot of focus on pockets of the rise of the far right in Europe. What is it about structural and cultural remnants of how

things used to be that make AFD appealing in that part of Berlin?

QVORTRUP: I think it's all of East Germany. You have to remember, that this is what used to be cross checked, this is Frederick the great's country.

This is a place where they of course had Hitler. Than after the Second World War there was no attempt to de-radicalize. The communist party even

incorporated part of Nazi party in its political system. So there's never been a Democratic socialization and that is what's really so obvious now

especially with the southern parts for Former East Germany.

NOBILO: And of those divisions between East and West Germany impacted the current leadership, specifically Angela Merkel?

QVORTRUP: Well, Angela is interesting because her family moved from Hamburg to East Germany. She grew up in the system. She wanted to be a doctor

originally but she wasn't allowed to be a doctor. So she's the first leader and only leader so far with an East Germany.

The night the Berlin wall came down she tells the story she went out for one beer, and then went back home so she could go off and be a quantum

physicist in the morning. But of course for her she wasn't allowed to be political before and fall of the Berlin wall within one year made her a

Cabinet Minister from absolutely--

NOBILO: You mentioned the fact that Angela Merkel couldn't be a doctor. I'm not sure exactly why that is? Perhaps you could explain. But the experience

women had in East Germany was different as well on the delineation of East and West Germany is so different to this day.

QVORTRUP: Yes, and I suppose one of the things that in East Germany it wasn't possible for women to have careers I mean, she had a doctorate. He

parents actually complained when she was 13 she couldn't accomplish anything. She was over 30 when she got her doctorate. She was able to have

a career because her father was a Vicar, and therefore a Christian in an atheist state it wouldn't allow her to have such a prominent profession as

being a doctor and therefore physics was a safe option because you couldn't be political about the laws of nature.

NOBILO: Matt Qvortrup, thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it. When THE BRIEF returns, how scientists are trying to flood the Rhino market

with a fake horn. We'll explain coming up next.



NOBILO: A record number of wildfires that have been described as unprecedented are now raging across Australia. Nearly 80 separate bush

fires are burning through New South Wales destroying at least 100 homes. The New South Wales Fire Service confirmed at least one person is dead and

two others are unaccounted for. Firefighters are saying the flames are moving so fast they cannot get where people are trapped. The flames have

even turned sky an eerie shade of orange in some communities.

Now, it's something that's been banned for decades but it's still a multimillion dollar industry - Rhino Poaching for the animal's horn. Now

scientists have come up with a novel and controversial way to try to disturb that trade. They have used horse hair bundled with this silk matrix

to create a synthetic rhino horn. The idea is to create credible fakes is they're calling them to flood this booming market and then reduce the

demand for the real thing.

Let's keep in mind why rhino horn is quite so popular. It's seen as an - in China and a symbol status in Vietnam. The scientists say this, we leave it

to others to develop this technology further with the aim to confuse the trade, depress prices and thus support rhino conservation. But they are

facing criticism.

The World Wildlife Fund says flooding the markets with fakes won't actually depreciate the proper rhino horns. And others say it's only going to

hamper law enforcement efforts to crack down on illegal poaching of the trade. That's THE BRIEF. Have a very nice weekend. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

"WORLD SPORT" is next.