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Supreme Court Hears Dreamer's Case as Trump Insults Them; Supreme Court Allows Sandy Hook Parents to Sue Gunmaker; Deval Patrick Does Not File for Democratic Primary in Arkansas; Trump Had At Least 10 Encounters with Indicted Giuliani Associates He Claims He Never Knew; Roger Stone Defense Rests Case. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 12, 2019 - 15:30   ET


[15:30:00] PIERRE BERASTAIN OJEDA, DACA RECIPIENT 2012: -- was offering this path for -- temporary path for people like me. I was at the time at Harvard, I had been there as an undergraduate and I had started by graduate studies at the Divinity School at the university.

And again I remember feeling this weight was lifted off my shoulders, off my chest. When I was in college, I know that I lied down in my bedroom just looking -- sleepless nights I called them. Because I would be thinking, I wonder -- or I remember thinking I believe I know now what it means for people to want to jump out a window. Because I didn't know what that future held for me and there was so much uncertainty.

And once DACA became a reality for me, I felt again, this weight lifted off and I was able to work. I was able to contribute to my community and concentrate on stuff that I really loved doing. Which is working against gender-based violence. I work against human trafficking, domestic and sexual violence.

BALDWIN: So, and this is just one of hundreds of thousands of stories. And Caitlin, explain why the Trump administration doesn't feel that he should be entitled to the benefits he's currently receiving as a Dreamer?

CAITLIN DICKERSON, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Sure. So the Trump administration's argument for ending DACA is that it's essentially an illegal policy, is what they believe, and that's because it was something that was established through executive action by President Obama.

And I think it's worth pointing out and reminding people now that actually executive action and policymaking through basically Presidential memos is incredibly common. The last time this country had comprehensive immigration reform was in 1986. All these major stories we've talked about. Family separation, the border wall, the travel ban, these are all executive action policies, and DACA is very much the same.

But the administration is saying in this case that you can't selectively choose one small group of people who are admittedly undocumented and offer them protection. They're saying that was going too far. That President Obama went too far in doing so. BALDWIN: And what are you now hearing? What is the "Times" reporting

about the justices?

DICKERSON: The latest that I've heard out of the courtroom and that we're reporting now is that it seems as if the conservative majority may in fact side with the Trump administration and go along with this decision that President Trump made to end DACA.

I think immigrant advocates were hoping that Chief justice John Roberts would land on their side as he did in the prior case. The recent case involving U.S. Census and immigration where he felt the administration's decision there was improper in trying to add an immigration question to the census. And advocates were hoping that Chief Justice John Roberts might feel the same way here. But it's looking as if he might actually go along with the President.

BALDWIN: So, if that is the case -- and again, we don't know for sure. Pierre, I want to end with you. If this doesn't go in your favor, how does this change your world?

BERASTAIN OJEDA: I think it kind of rocks my world. I've been in this country for over 20 years. My friends are here. My family is here. My entire community is here. I don't know what I will do. I have faith that I would land on my two feet. I'm not willing to go back to those sleepless nights of mental health troubles. But I know I'll land on my two feet, and I think the next step would be for us to just continue to advocate to -- for Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform.

It's not just the 700,000 kids or students or young adults who are undocumented. It's 11 million immigrants. My family -- I have members in my family who are in need of -- who have been contributing to this country for 20 years and are in need of some type of legal reprieve to be recognized for all the work they've been doing and the contributions they have in society.

BALDWIN: We'll wait to see which way this decision goes at the nation's highest court. Pierre, thank you very much and Caitlin, as always thank you as well.

Also today the Supreme Court dealt a blow to the firearms industry. The Justices rejected an appeal for gunmaker, Remington, to stop a lawsuit filed by the families of the Sandy Hook victims. Remington, a manufacturer of the semiautomatic rifle that was used in that 2012 mass shooting at the Connecticut elementary school. The families' lawsuit can now go forward and this could have huge financial implications for gun manufacturers.

CNN Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue is with me on this case. And so, what happens today, what are the next steps?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, it's interesting because as you said the Supreme Court dealt a loss to the gun manufacturers and all they did is deny an appeal. They didn't take up the particular appeal. So that means this unusual lawsuit can go forward in the lower courts. Let me tell you a little about it. Because it is brought by family

members and victims of Sandy Hook, and they're trying to hold the arms manufacturer responsible. But as things stand, federal law prohibits them bringing a wrongful death lawsuit against the gun manufacturer.


So it looks like they're trying to find a new way to get at this problem, and what they did is they're attacking the gun manufacturers' marketing strategy. They said that the gun was marketed sort of with extolling its military qualities, and they said that that goes against a state law having to do with marketing. So the lower courts are allowing this to proceed and Remington raced to the Supreme Court to tell the Justices, look, you have to stop this lawsuit from going forward.

The Supreme Court without comment decided not to take up the appeal. So that means that this is going to continue now in the lower courts, and it's a long road they have. This isn't going to be an easy lawsuit. But it really is indicative of a new way that they hope they might be able to get at this issue. So we're going to have to wait and see. The lawsuit will now continue along. But it's a really interesting, new way to go at this that is really interesting. Victims of mass shootings like this, who think that the courts have to do something.

BALDWIN: Yes. We'll watch it right along with you, Ariane. Thank you very much.

DE VOGUE: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Michael Bloomberg goes to Arkansas in person to file for the Democratic primary today. This is happening as we hear former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick taking and making calls about a possible 2020 bid as well. Charles Blow is coming up next to explain why he's not sold on either of them.



BALDWIN: Just days after former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg made it known he is thinking about running in 2020, there could be another potential late comer. Former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick is reportedly taking and making calls and considering joining the already crowded Democratic lineup. He would join Bloomberg who was in Arkansas by the way filing for that state's Democratic primary before today's deadline passed.

Deval Patrick did not make the Arkansas deadline. But the question remains if both of these men, one who has flirted with running before and another who actually ran and had to drop out have a solid chance this late in the game.

Charles Blow is our CNN political commentator and op-ed columnist for the "New York Times" and he is with me now, and he wrote all about his feelings on Michael Bloomberg. We will get to in just a second. The man is not holding back.

But first of all, Patrick. Should he do it?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know what the path is, I don't who's advising him to do this, who he's talking to. It seems way too late to jump in to the first caucuses in Iowa and New Hampshire. The other black candidates are not having any luck making headway in South Carolina, which they thought would be a way to jump back into it.

BALDWIN: So, you're wondering why is he one of the first governors in the country --

BLOW: But all of them are relatively unknown in the South where the black vote has the biggest impact. So Kamala is relatively unknown there. She's made some headway and gone and tried to do some work during the campaign. But people from the South, they are like, who, where you been? This is your first time during the campaign. A lot of people who are running, who are trying to attract that vote they're going now and that's good. You have to do that, but those people they're like, where you been? We've had a lot of issues forever.

BALDWIN: And if he jumps in now it's really be like --

BLOWS: It's like, I don't know you. And you want to tell me something but where you been? So you know that's always a problem.

BALDWIN: OK, OK, let's get to your pointed piece. Your blistering op-ed opposing any sort of Bloomberg Presidential run. He was this three term New York Mayor, pretty successful. A Democratic favorite, you know, he's got some money to spend. But you say, no black person or Hispanic person or ally of people of color should ever consider voting for him in the primary. Tell me how you really feel, Charles Blow.

BLOW: Look, it's all about the issue of stop the frisk first. And let me say this from the very beginning, he is not the only Democrat who has a problem with me and other black people around the idea of criminal justice. A lot of them do. A lot them have done some harm, including Joe Biden. Hillary Clinton got into this issue in the last election and may have hurt her among particularly young African Americans.

So there are other people. Kamala Harris, people still question her role as a prosecutor in California. But Michael Bloomberg is a different character to me, because Michael Bloomberg didn't run the whole country. He wasn't in the Senate. He wasn't making policy. He had a city to run. It had 2.1 million black people and 2.2 million Hispanic people. And you have to look at how did he treat that whole universe of people that he had? Of that half were male. Of that about one-third were young men, 14 to 34.

In New York City, at the height of stop and frisk, they stopped about 700,000 young black -- mostly young, black men. Right? No, not -- 55 percent were young black men. Right? Total number 700,000, 55 percent young black men. There are only 300,000 young black men between the ages of 14 and 34 in New York City at the time. That means there were more stops, or could be by the math, more stops than there were people.


BALDWIN: Devil's advocate. Couple points to go against you. The crime rate fell, transportation system is more efficient in the city, environment is cleaner, all good reasons, you know, as your paper points out, for people of color to vote for him. Also in a letter to the editor on you piece, let me just quote, please, progressives do the electoral math. If you take all those who wouldn't vote for Elizabeth Warren because of Medicare For All and all those who wouldn't vote Pete Buttigieg because he's gay and add to those who would vote for Mr. Bloomberg because of stop and frisk, your sum is likely a Trump victory.

BLOW: OK. Let me just say this. First of all, this is not a minor thing. This is not -- we don't put this on the same level as, you know, we're trying to ban sweet sodas or something. No. These stops were not gentle officer friendly Andy Griffith, hi, how you doing? Are you OK? Go on about your business and here's a lollypop. That was not it.

This was people like me raising two boys in the city nervous every time they left the house, because, have I done enough to prepare you to run into that police officer? Because if you resist that actually is a crime. If you resist you could wind up dead. So you must submit and you are powerless. You are humiliated. You are angry and you have no recourse whatsoever.

And the psychological damage that that did to that entire group of boys growing up, and even he to this day when defending it, he talks about his boys and young men because he knows that's exactly who they were stopping. Right? He was damaging them, and so most of the, only 10 percent of those stops ever resulted in any warrant, any arrest whatsoever and those were mostly for small drugs. Like all kids were carrying, but they were just stopping those black boys.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you saying that, and again, we don't know if, how serious he is, but if you're wondering how you feel and I'm sure some other folks around feel, look to your points. Charles Blow, thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, it is a defense President Trump has trotted out many times when someone in his circle gets in trouble, claiming he never knew them. Well, in the case two of indicted Rudy Giuliani associates, we have the receipts on why that is blatantly false.



BALDWIN: We have seen it often, the President saying he doesn't know someone, when it seems pretty clear, yes, he does.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know those gentlemen. Now it's possible I have a picture with them because I have a picture with everybody. I don't know them. I don't know about them. I don't know what they do. But I don't know. Maybe they were clients of Rudy. You'd have to ask Rudy.


BALDWIN: He is saying this about these two men, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. They have ties to the President's own personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and are charged with illegally funneling donations to U.S. political candidates. And Parnas in particular is apparently eager to talk impeachment -- to investigators about what he knows about Ukraine. And now with CNN investigation is turning up evidence that Trump has met with one or both of these men multiple time going back years.

CNN's KFILE senior editor Andrew Kaczynski is here with me. What did you find?

ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yes, so we found that the President has had ten total interactions with these guys.


KACZYNSKI: Ten in total. The earliest was March 2014, he took a photo with Parnas at his club at Doral during a golf tournament before he ever ran for

President. Latest was December 2018 at a White House Hanukkah party. Now if we take these interactions in total it really makes this claim that the President didn't know them -- it doesn't seem true to me.

You know, they had an intimate dinner at the Trump Hotel, and we're talking you know not a dinner with a hundred people, we're talking a dinner to eight to fifteen people with these guys and the President. They had VIP access to Trump rallies, you know, photos backstage at Trump rallies. All sorts of exclusive -- an exclusive Inaugural dinner and seven of the occasions they actually got photos posing with the President. So that's seven different times that these folks and the President took photos together.

BALDWIN: So quickly, what's the White House saying?

KACZYNSKI: So, the White House is not saying anything. His lawyers aren't saying anything. Rudy Giuliani, he did not answer any questions about this. So no one really got back to us on it.

BALDWIN: The KFILE at it again. Andrew Kaczynski, thank you very much.

Just in, Roger Stone's defense team resting its case simply playing an hour of audio tape from his House testimony two years ago. The one during which he allegedly lied. They didn't call a single witness including Stone himself. Closing arguments expected to begin tomorrow. We'll be right back. [15:55:00]


BALDWIN: Before we go, we just wanted to send well wishes to two of America's most beloved TV icons, Jeopardy's Alex Trebek just resumed treatment for stage four pancreatic cancer. And on the show last night he got choked up when he revealed one player's final Jeopardy answer.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is we love you, Alex.

ALEX TREBEK, HOST OF JEOPARDY: That's very kind of you. Thank you. Cost you, $1,995 and you're left with $5, OK.


BALDWIN: And Trebek's counterpart over on Wheel of Fortune, Pat Sajak, is also recovering from a health scare. His longtime co-host Vanna White stepped in for him after an emergency surgery for a blocked intestine. Sajak tweeted for the first time since his surgery thanking everyone for the support and says he will return soon.

BALDWIN: Thanks for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.